Michael Carrillo has written a small first impressions review and report after being voted AmigaWorld.net’s ‘Moderator Of The Year’ and winning a new MicroA1. However for more in depth pre-release information turn to the recent Ars Technica review. And for Amiga users who need to use Windows but don’t want to leave their Amiga environment there’s a new Remote Desktop client available (Screenshot).
Developers! Developers! Developers! Hope enough developers take the plunge and create good native apps.
So if I want to use old software together with the new OS. Would a 2nd hand classic amiga with PPC or a new MicroA1 PPC be better choice?
@ Kaenu
> Developers! Developers! Developers! Hope enough developers
> take the plunge and create good native apps.
Yes, next to offering Amiga fans something to play with that’s an important goal for the current developer pre-release. The AmigaOS4 native software library is already growing steadily, most (hundreds) of this software can be found at:
http://www.os4depot.net/
Furthermore there are already efforts underway to bring Mozilla/Firefox ($9378 Booty), OpenOffice.org and Java to the platform. There is still many months of hard work to be done on all of these efforts and the teams could surely use any good help they can get.
http://www.amigaopenoffice.org/
Mailing list: https://lists.samfundet.no/mailman/listinfo/openoffice-os4
IRC channels: #openoffice / #amigaworld at irc.amigaworld.net
> So if I want to use old software together with the new OS.
> Would a 2nd hand classic amiga with PPC or a new MicroA1
> PPC be better choice?
That would depend on the software you would like to use.
Currently AmigaOS4-beta for classic PPC equipped Amigas is only available to beta-testers. But AmigaOS4 is a lot faster on AmigaOne spec hardware, but there are already videos available to do some early comparisons:
AmigaOS4 running on classic hardware with several PPC native and 68k emulated applications:
http://movies.intuitionbase.com/OS4_BPPC.avi
http://movies.intuitionbase.com/OS4_BPPC.mpg
Hardware specs: Amiga 1200 /Blizzard PPC @ 166 Mhz, 128 MB RAM and BlizzardVision (Permedia 2) graphics card.
OS4 (now months old beta) running various native and emulated apps on AmigaOne spec hardware:
AmigaOS4 videoplayers:
http://uniweb.free.fr/os4/moovidamp.avi
Various:
http://uniweb.free.fr/os4/os4morequal.avi
AmigaOS4 boot:
http://webring.amigaworld.net/funcomp/os4betaboot.mpg
Regarding chipset dependent software you would be required to use an emulator like E-UAE on AmigaOne hardware. But this emulator based on a WinUAE core has been making good progress. A screenshot on AmigaOS4:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=202
The Arstechnica article indicated that it mainted compatibility with older software so didn’t have memory protection anabled and so rogue software can take down the whole system. I was wondering whether this mode can be switched off and memory protection enabled?
why do they still develop a 32bit OS?
Memory protection is sheduled to be switched on completely when enough OS3.x software has been ported to AmigaOS4 (probably AmigaOS 4.1, turning off MP again will be probably become an option for legacy software). When properly written in compliance with the provided AmigaOS4 developers documentation, such new software should continue to function with MP fully enabled.
Currently only parts of the OS are running memory protected and the Grim Reaper currently prevents most OS crashes, when software failures occur.
Some older Grim Reaper screenshots:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=6&rev_…
I’m guessing since they aren’t using the PPC 970 Chip? lol
@ Anonymous
> why do they still develop a 32bit OS?
The PPC CPUs used by classic Amigas and the new AmigaOne systems are 32-bit.
Anyway 32-bit software (such as Mac OS X – 10.3) could run in 32-bit mode on new 64-bit hardware, but 64-bit software cannot run on 32-bit hardware.
Its nice to see an old architecture resurected. The problem i see is why? were Amiga’s that good? as a consumer give me one reason why i would want to switch or even use this platform over Windows, Mac OS or even UNIX. I see this a very small niche market item for the radical Amiga fans.
Unfortunately this is NOT the old architecture resurrected.
It’s a generic PPC motherboard with a rewritten version of the OS made to run on it.
They could have done the same thing by re-writing the OS for the x86 processor and including a 68k Emulator (ala PPC MacOSes).
Thansk Mike Bouma, I got the impression from Arstechnica then if an older program went down it could take down the entire system. From the screenshots you gave, it looks like the Grim Reaper catches crashes, or at least some.
Can all crashes be caught? Or is it possible to take down the entire system with a badly written program on the 4.0 release?
@ Smartpatrol
> as a consumer give me one reason why i would want to
> switch or even use this platform over Windows, Mac OS or
> even UNIX
IMO currently there are mainly reasons for Amiga ethusiasts, techies, programmers and other early adopters to buy into an AmigaOS4 system.
For the long run however, there will IMO be lots of reasons.
My personal top 3:
1) Consumer choice – Almost every AmigaOS component can be *easily* removed completely and replaced with alternative. By this I do not only mean browsers, media players or client software. I also mean the File launchers, File management environments (like the default Workbench or Directory Opus Magellan), Filesystems, etc).
IMO this allows for true competition and actually the rival MorphOS/ABox Amiga-like OS is also an indirect result of such flexibility.
2) AmigaOS is very fast, efficient combined with a tiny memory footprint. Compared to MacOS, Linux, Windows solutions consumers will get more GUI / mulitasking performance out their high or low specced hardware.
3) Amiga applications generally support being displayed on their own screens. Allowing consumers to easily customize their preferred screenmodes and allows application developers to easily design and optimize their software for a default fullscreen screenmode.
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~amifaq/screens.html
@ Bill
> Can all crashes be caught? Or is it possible to take down
> the entire system with a badly written program on the 4.0
> release?
IMO all currently available desktop OSes can lockup or crash due to badly written software. I am sure you will be able to find some stuff from Aminet which will do something unexpected and reboot would be required. But luckily a reboot of AmigaOS only takes a few seconds.
Like with MacOS X, Linux and Windows the overall stability will steadily improve over time as is already the case. This is a pre-release afterall.
Buy a classic Amiga w/ PPC board?
I think it would be cheaper to buy an A1, case, and drives. (at least in the USA)
I don’t believe in the fabled Amiga anymore. (though I would really love to). However, I wish them the best of luck. If it were to succeed I would be very happy.
@ theslownorris
> Buy a classic Amiga w/ PPC board?
> I think it would be cheaper to buy an A1, case, and drives.
> (at least in the USA)
AFAIK you can only buy second-hand classics anymore. However only a *used* BlizzardPPC 233 Mhz/040/33 accelerator board currently costs 232.00EUR and a *used* BlizzardPPC 233 Mhz/040/33 costs even 392.00EUR here at Computer City. The CyberstormPPCs expansion boards are mostly even more expensive.
IMO generally for the best price/performance ratio go for a MicroA1 regarding OS4 solutions.
Sorry for promoting websites, but Mike Bouma forgot to mention the developer site setup for Amiga related development at http://utilitybase.com which contains references, tutorials, forums and more.
In addition there’s a developer IRC channel at #amigadev on irc.amigaworld.net.
As for software, both old 68k and new PPC based software is available at the recently resurrected http://aminet.net
Cheers
the MicroAmigaOne is not broken, the early AmigaOne-XE and SE models are broken, yes
I think for the licencing to be valid the makers of the Pegasos would have to either pay a fee to Amiga Inc. or make AOS 4 available with EVERY Peg sold. Besides isn’t the Peg under 700 MHz? My advice is wait for ACK to come out with their special low-budget Amiga (which unfortunately will probably not come out until AFTER the new A1200 accelerator version).
@ Sam Crow
Besides isn’t the Peg under 700 MHz?
Nope, the Bplan Pegasos 2 is sold with a 1GHz G4 priced at 615$ US. Which is the least expensive and fastest Amiga solution right now for everyone.
See this site for more details: http://www.pegasosppc.com/
My advice is wait for ACK to come
Does ACK have a web site?
And not the newer AmigaOne-XEs model still sold by some dealers.
Also the older boards can be fixed for free or for 30 Euros depending on where the boards were bought. This is standard repetitive FUD.
IO doubt it is possible to turn on memory protection without breaking compatibility with existing PPC native OS4 programs. And MP alone can’t protect from fatal system crashes. Buggy interrupt or input handler is enough to lock up system, and it is only tip of iceberg… AmigaOS API simply doesnt allow bulletproof design.
@ itix
This was information based on statements by fulltime core AmigaOS4 developers. They have extensive knowledge of AmigaOS (users since around 1986 and developed lots of Amiga software) and general operating system technologies (relating university degrees).
As a MorphOS/ABox developer you have probably been told something different by the (ex-)core MoprhOS/Abox team. Do note however that AmigaOS4 and MorphOS/ABox had two very different aims with regard to their future design.
—-
To quote an ex-Genesi PR guy regarding to classic AmigaOS compatibility:
“MOS has gone all out for compatibility, a hell of a lot of effort has been put into making it compatibile to the n’th degree.”
AmigaOS4 dev team:
“In all considerations backwards compatibility was always the secondary goal. Compatibility IMO is important, but only to a certain degree. Well-Behaved programs do work; everything else would go through UAE.”
—-
Regarding to MP:
A MOS users:
“The tricky part will be to run OS3-4.000000-SW in OS4.2, when real MP is introduced.”
Answer from AmigaOS4 dev team:
“Not really. As long as programs use as prerequisite what the autodocs tell them, and the API provides the functionality that is there, nothing will happen.”
Quotes taken from ‘Difference between MOS & OS4?’ thread:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&to…
—-
I also had lots of discussions with regard to the ABox in the past with MOS developers and it was clear that the ABox was never intended to go beyond what the AmigaOS3.1 Exec functionality offered in 1993 and this to remain as compatible with the past as possible. However the ABox (Amiga-like environment which includes almost everything including drivers, DOS, GUI etc) in MorphOS is hosted on top of a Quark kernel, IMO very similar like AmigaOS3.x/Exec uses the Linux kernel as a host in the case of the emulator Amithlon. The aim was to make ABox users into becoming QBox (QuarkOS) users for the long run. The QBox has never been publicly shown yet, but is reported to be at a very basic stage still and nothing was said about how much it would be similar to AmigaOS nor the (AmigaOS-like) ABox environment.
AmigaOS4/ExecSG was designed to at some point in the future leave the past behind and thus sandboxes (like an E-UAE emulation sandbox, as is already the case for chipset dependent software on both MorphOS and AmigaOS4) would be needed to run most legacy software.
MikeB wrote:
> However only a *used* BlizzardPPC 233 Mhz/040/33 accelerator
> board currently costs 232.00EUR and a *used* BlizzardPPC 233
> Mhz/040/33 costs even 392.00EUR here at Computer City.
A typo.
Should have been: “*used* BlizzardPPC 200/060/50/SCSI costs even 392.00EUR”
“Do note however that AmigaOS4 and MorphOS/ABox had two very different aims with regard to their future design.”
I don’t disagree.
“As long as programs use as prerequisite what the autodocs tell them, and the API provides the functionality that is there, nothing will happen.”
I doubt. However, how well programs follow autodocs?
“The aim was to make ABox users into becoming QBox (QuarkOS) users for the long run.”
No QBox, no QuarkOS. They both are common misunderstanding. ABox is just an Amiga-compatible thread running under Quark microkernel. This doesnt necessarily make MorphOS better than other solutions, but provides space for future expansion.
@Ronald
http://www.livewiresystems.ca/ has an email link to ACK but there is currently no website. The announcement of the A1200 accelerator was announced on http://www.amiga.org as a news item. Use the search to find it.