Unfortunately, the cute FreeBSD daemon is sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural
context. That’s why The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public competition for the new logo design. You can find the rules of the competition in this document. Update: There is now a petition to keep Beastie, however FreeBSD’s own Robert Watson emailed us to inform us that they are “seeking a new logo, but not a new mascot“, so that petition is really reduntant. Update 2: Rob Watson writes:
– The announcement text was an early draft, and the contest hasn’t been announced yet.
– One of the immediate pieces of feedback we got was that we need to make
it more clear: this is not about replacing the beastie!
– We’re looking to create a new logo that can be used with the Beastie, or
by itself. One of the specific concerns we have is that the daemon
renders poorly in print using one-color, two-color, etc, and we need a
vector logo, not just a mascot. Another was finding a logo that could
be conveniently and easily printed by vendors on packaging for products
that support FreeBSD. Not all vendors are willing to stick a Daemon on
their packaging!
– We anticipate releasing the real announcement in the near future, at the
logo-contest.freebsd.org URL. When it’s ready, we’ll send out e-mail to
freebsd-announce, and we’ll drop you a direct e-mail.
– Once again we’ve been reminded of an important lesson: don’t put
something on the web site if it’s not ready to be seen. After at least
three premature postings of FreeBSD releases on slashdot due to files
starting to appear on the FTP mirrors even though the announcement
hadn’t been sent, you’d think we’d have learned.
Robert N M Watson
The daemon will disappear!
Do not as NetBSD with their new logo that sucks!
nooo pleasee
why oh why?
Where can I sign the petition to keep Beastie?
From the FreeBSD website:
“Historically, we used a daemon character as mascot [1], and put it on our web site with “FreeBSD” text like as logo. This character sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural context.”
But do we/they have to care about it? It think this decision is really really stupid. Beastie is one of the coolest logos i’ve ever seen. It’s *UNIQUE*. Even without any text under the logo, you just know it has something to do with [Free]BSD. I think a lot of marketing boys are jealous they don’t have such a logo.
No,no,no…
First NetBSD, now this. Crap. Utter, utter crap. This is just so sad.
I’ll always have my chuck tattoo to remember him. I do like the new netbsd logo though. Much more professional.
Beastie forever!
call wwf, greenpeace or something like that
this “unique” beast must survive
*cuddle beasti*
… before they decide to cancel the competition. Even as a linux user I have to admit that Beastie is much cooler than Tux.
Is there a way to convince them to keep the Beastie? A petition maybe? How IS that happening anyway? CRAP!
A former online friend was the demonette booth babe. I’m sure she still uses FreeBSD and I’m sure she wouldn’t wanna wear a n androgynous teddy bear outfit
I wonder if they keep the beastie then maybe they see how much everyone loves the Beastie logo and not the new logo? I mean, if they don’t ditch it completely…
Who cares about religious Zealots….
I thought going BSD and leaving Linux behind was all about not having zealots all around you. So why then care about christians getting upset about Beastie??? That’s the people the BSD camp don’t want as users… geee…
i am with you guys that are saying the current logo should be kept. are there any BSD users complaining about the logo is thought to have some kind of relations to their religion? religion is just religion. logo is just logo. i am quite sick of religion, especially the religion which makes people to react like this! (btw, out of the topic, without a doubt, it would be much much much worse in korea because quite a lot of christians in korea are just totally mad about their religion which caused me to hate :p sorry to koreans but they really are!)
i really like daemon. cute, unique and cool! And imho, a daemon sticker on the pc case would be much better looking than the penguin sticker on it. i simply love it. i hope that daemon would survive.
How come is that these religious people always have to decide whats best for the rest of us? Do we waltz into their churches and shift furniture? This is most absurd.
http://wigen.net/data/bsdmascots/ (makes my day)
Peace
“Who cares about religious Zealots….”
This has nothing – at least from my side – to do with any attchtement to beastie to do, even if I think he’s really cool. What annoys the hell out of me is that they scrap a perfect mascot to please a bunch of ignorant idiots just to be politically correct. The zeal of which you speak is concerning tolerance, free speach and thougth. And don’t give me any crap about it beeing tolerance to scrap beasty. If they can’t stand him then they can stay away.
whoops. misread your post.. sorry..
*red face* ..
I’m a born again Christian, but I’m not a religious zealot. But I think it’s completely unnecessary for them to change their logo due to religious zealotry. I kinda doubt that’s the *real* reason. I rather doubt there are any Churches or Christians up in arms about the beastie logo. And even if there are a few, are there really enough to justify a logo change? How many Churches even know about FreeBSD, much less care enough about it to cause a stir?
There has to be more to the story than this.
Submit original artwork that has beastie in it.
Nowhere in the rules does it say no daemon
I love beastie – keep him alive!
The inmates are taking over the asylum. How can it truly be ‘Free’ BSD if this sort of pressure forces a mascot change.
When will they start bowing to code changes?
Keep Beastie!
what the hell …?
keep beastie, he IS FreeBSD!
florian
http://www.alwaysaffordablegifts.com/american-pride/america-pics/te…
Well we could do a couple of things, a whole bunch of ppl could send in bestie art work, or we petition them to keep it, I think they shouldnt change because then the Christians will start crying and FreeBSD will get free press, because you know its going to be on the news!
I agree with all the posts above.
Keep Beastie!
From the rules:
“The logo must not exploit or offend a person’s sex, race, religion, morality, culture , nor be salacious or pornographic.”
Hmm. Not offend anyone? Impossible! With so many different cultures and religions, you are bound to offend someone regardless of what logo you choose.
The trick is to not care… 😉
…to shove it. Jeeze. This reminds me of the earfull I got when I was reading the SATAN documentation when it came out. I was on the bus, reading the printouts and minding my own business when these church ladies (the SNL character was a subdued version of reality) peeled a strip off me, loudly I might add. I just could not believe this. I tried telling them to calm down, that the papers had nothing to do with religion but with network security. They then switched to the “computers are the tools of the devil” schtick, at which point I popped a fuse and got them to clam up.
I really hope that the FreeBSD team can stand up and keep Beastie. This pseudo-religious thing is really skidding out of control in the USA. How soon before Tux is deemed “morally incorrect”?
As sad as it sounds I first installed FreeBSD because of the logo and I am sure there are many people influenced by the “positive” image it projects unto the project.
They are offering 500$ to destroy a classic piece of open source marketing…. Even 10.000$ would sound low.
*sigh* it’s so sad. Does anyone have a testimony from someone who is actually in favour of a replacement ?
maybe a “DaemonBSD” fork/copy is in order.
If you read the details, you’ll see that they want to get a new logo, not replace the mascot, who will remain the beastie.
I’m sure Beastie will stay. They don’t want to change the *mascot*, they just want a new *logo*!
Come on.. this decision totally makes sense. Beastie isn’t a logo, it’s a mascot – and we can reasonably assume it’ll never be dropped.
Btw, here’s another daemonette – my favourite
http://www.keltia.net/photos/Bellamy/Daemonette/daemonette_bg1024_t…
Keep Beatie!
Where must I sign for him?
I agree with keeping Beastie as a Mascot, but it does kinda sound like they want to replace him, they want it to be more professional? Are they going try and take over desktop and server space? Are they going to retail FreeBSD? If not then why ask for a new logo? Do they even have a logo to even replace?
please keep the current logo 😐
where ned flanders told Homer :
“I am as cool as any other parent, for example last week I let tod buy a candy with a devil drawn on it”
What influenced the FreeBSD team to consider a move like this? Next they will be drinking laced Coolaid.
…How some religious zealot has submitted all of the anti-religious zealot posts for removal.
If thou be offended, then defend thy fundamoronism, rather then lurking in the shadows! Or, just go to hell and leave the rest of us free from your fairy-tale beliefs.
Please don’t do a stupid thing!
They want to change the FreeBSD logo for every compliant the will receive?
“HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!”
changing the logo again
“HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!”
changing the logo again
“HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!”
and again and again and again…
Confusing that nice Beastie logo with something evil it is only posible for religious zealots. Confusing religious people with something fanatic and extreme, it’s also only posible for other kind of zealots.
I’m catholic. Keep our Daemon alive!
FreeBSD is an OS that appeals to professionals, so it sounds good that they’ve finally decided to *have* a logo.
And the wonderful BSD license is the best assurance one can have that nothing will change in the spirit of the project – that is not commercial, not political, but academical.
That’s how I see it.
I think the foundation wants a change to appear more business-like in their presentation to companies. A cartoon character (even as cute as he is) does not sell to businesses very well. People in charge would probably be kicked out if someone thought they enjoyed cartoons. RedHat has shunned the penguin on their front page; they have their own logo.
As for religion, I doubt the reason for change is a group of religious people petitioning against the current logo. If anything, it is PC “police” in other companies that are afraid of offending anyone. The anti-religious (based on their posts) atheists should try to relax.
BTW, I am Catholic and understand the difference between a daemon and a demon. FreeBSD has even “possessed” three of my computers at home. 010100100010101001001… Oh, no! I am speaking in bits.
I wholeheartedly agree with one of the previous posters about church furniture. I don’t mess with their churches, they shouldn’t mess with our OS! No reason to replace the most brilliant mascott I ever saw attached to a quintessential server OS. Man, these are computers we’re talking about, it’s not like it’s Marilyn Manson or something ;-)))
Well…my religion order’s me to stick with FreeBSD _becouse_ of the beastie…now – anyone cares at all ?
There are many people convinced (by whom i do not know) that the Earth is flat. Mayby we shoudn’t tease with them and get rid off of the calendar which imply’s Earth beeing spherical and moving around the Sun. Or maybe we shoudn’t upset guy’s rejecting notion of living organisms developing themselves in process call’ed evolution (they managed to forbid learning about evolution in schools in some states). I personally can not agree with such bul..it. It is a matter of fighting for the freedom to choose not to be eaten alive.
“If you read the details, you’ll see that they want to get a new logo, not replace the mascot, who will remain the beastie.”
To me this is rather vague what is the difference between mascot and the logo. I understand, that beastie won’t show itself anymore during e.g. installation. It is unacceptable.
let the beastie live….
>>Confusing religious people with something fanatic and extreme, it’s also only posible for other kind of zealots.<<
Yes, either rabid atheists who gawk in amazement that otherwise intelligent people still believe in fairy tales that make them feel better – or – zealots from other religions.
>>I’m catholic.<<
I used to be too. Fortunately, I got better.
hehe, actually they are not as much anti-religious as they are anti religous zealots. Zealously anti zealot you might say. 🙂
… tomorow there will be no more daemons in FreeBSD – no httpd, no ftpd, etc. 😉
What I find really ironic is that the “enlightened” atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these “backwards” Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world.
Atheists, buy yourself a clue. There are a lot of religious people in this world. They never got up in large numbers and tried to force their view on FreeBSD. These people merely might have been turned off by Beastie and FreeBSD so the FreeBSD team wants to make sure it isn’t happening. I don’t blame them either.
It is an OS, keep it neutral. If I never had heard about FreeBSD and was completely clueless about it, I would wonder why they have the “devil” there. And if you can’t see why Christians are offended, let me give it to you another way. I wouldn’t expect you to use an OS with Jesus with a big cross as a mascot with the slogan “carrying your burdens”. And even if you did, wouldn’t you wonder why they put religious symbols in an OS?
Stop this politically correct madness. Save the BSD daemon!!
Let’em know what you think about this:
[email protected]
Please don’t do it! We want beastie to stay!
Oh good lord!
I understand the sensitivity issue, being a minority myself. But this religious-based political correctness issue over icons is just as bad a secular-based political correctness.
Maybe George Orwell was just twenty or so years off.
What I’d like to know is not whether the logo bothers some people, but whether this actually has any big impact on FreeBSD.
Does the FreeBSD project really face any substantial trouble owing to a cute demon logo? Are people orchestrating letter writing campaigns or withholding support over the cute demon logo? Are the developers’ inboxen deluged with complaints? In short, is this an actual problem that needs to be solved?
Plenty of companies have logos and names that may offend a subset of religious people. Even some standard product names, like devilied ham, may “turn some people off.” But these are not changed unless it actually affects the company.
I am biased because I was a BeOS user, and they had a perfectly good logo consisting of their name. Like IBM, Be has a nice, short name that works as a logo. But during the dot-com madness someone decided that the logo had to be changed to an abstract paperclip resembling either an eye or an ear.
You people care about the dumbest things. It’s just a logo, you’ll live if it gets changed.
finally, someone with some sense on this topic.
RTFA, people:
And this daemon character seems cute from somebody’s point of view,
but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional
products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside.
while i think their mascot is fine, they obviously feel pressure from professional organizations to try to look more “professional” (whatever that means). any mention of religion is solely included for historical context and has nothing to do with their decision.
before you jump on Christians, please check your own zeal at the door and RTFA.
What about the Duke “blue devils”? What about the Wake Forest “Demon Deacons”? What about the New Jersey…gast…”Devils”? What about Fred the Red for Manchester United? They seem to be doing fine.
Grouping religous symbols with an OS is about as stupid as it comes. The devil is there because freebsd has “daemons”. When I first saw freebsd, that is the immediate connection I made. There was no religous undertones whatsoever.
If it’s because FreeBSD wants a more porfessional image..comeone. Like a friggin Penguin is professional?
While a new logo might work to target a more professional setting, they should keep Beastie is some aspect. At least for a heritage thing…
i hope the keep the mascot and their current logo, it’s easily recognizable. my girlfriend’s a sun devil (ASU alumn) and we’re both Christians. so where are these Christians beating down the door to have the logo removed? not on OSNews (at least not yet anyway)!
Why does everyone always automatically assume its christians whining about it? THeres more than one religious group people
anyways, I think its really dumb to change the logo for that reason. People are to scared of offending others nowadays. its pathetic. I’m a christian and I see nothing wrong with having the daemon in the logos. netbsds old logo was awesome. The new one sucks.
All you PC religious wackos are insane! There is nothing related to the devil in this logo. It’s just for fun…
Well, I love beastie, and I don’t think it should be changed. It is very characteristic of FreeBSD, especially now that all BSD’s have distinct logos. Not that they didn’t, but sometimes for noobs it was easie to confuse OpenBSD’s daemon (with the O or halo above its head) and Beastie – not anymore as puffy the blowfish is more and more being associated with OpenBSD.
Anyhow, I understand the reasoning behind the logo change of NetBSD … well, somewhat – because not only daemons were in it (religious concern) but it was also a parody of a historical event (I wasn’t offended, nor should anyone imho, but it happens, especially in the current political climate where super-patriotism is en vogue again). Added to this was the fact that the pic was too complex to function as a logo. Now from all of these concerns FreeBSD’s Beastie has only one (and only in the eyes of one set of zealots not two). Beastie functions perfectly as a logo, and it is recognizable, the Handbook explains its function, and besides, if we follow this reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, then sshd, httpd, etc. should remove the trailing d – why? Because: what if someone asks the reason behind the strange names of these services, and when he or she (yup, I’m politically correct) hears that the d stands for daemon, turns away from unix/linux and will install IIS instead? Huh?
Nevertheless, maybe a compromise is possible. I am no artist, so I have no idea how we could do it, but isn’t it possible to design a logo that has beastie in it in some way? An svg logo where beastie is still recognizable, but doesn’t have that reddish hue or something – a schematic representation of beastie perhaps? Also, why not put a * on advertisement material with explanation (taken from the Handbook):
“3.8 Daemons, Signals, and Killing Processes
When you run an editor it is easy to control the editor, tell it to load files, and so on. You can do this because the editor provides facilities to do so, and because the editor is attached to a terminal. Some programs are not designed to be run with continuous user input, and so they disconnect from the terminal at the first opportunity. For example, a web server spends all day responding to web requests, it normally does not need any input from you. Programs that transport email from site to site are another example of this class of application.
We call these programs daemons. Daemons were characters in Greek mythology; neither good or evil, they were little attendant spirits that, by and large, did useful things for mankind. Much like the web servers and mail servers of today do useful things. This is why the BSD mascot has, for a long time, been the cheerful looking daemon with sneakers and a pitchfork.”
Of course I have a simplified version of this text in mind.
You know what kills me?? When people don’t read all of the posts and decide to say, “THOSE DAMNED CHRISTIANS!!”
I am a Christian, just like the others that have posted before me. And like them (because I’ve read all the postings), I have no problem with the beastie. I am sure they, like myself, understand that it’s just a logo and it doesn’t mean that it’s the spawn of Satan or what nonsense. So please, leave all the common assumptions of Christ-believers at the door. If you think you are more “enlightened” than I or other Christians, good for you…please demonstrate that in your postings. (Oh no!! I said DEMONstrate!!! AaaaAaagGGh!! :-p And BTW, for those tolerant non-christians that still don’t understand, that was a joke.)
Back to the Beastie: looking at the current logo on a professional level, it might not be something that a company would go for. Consider all the Linux distros out there. How many times in recent years have they changed the look of their logos to cater to a more professional or corporate audience? Look even at the early mascot pictures for Linux. It wasn’t always a penguin, you know. How about Mozilla?? We all know about the mascot, but most of the times Mozilla is designated by that “M” logo. Understand that institutions and corporations don’t think as we geeks do. What might be cute to us might be considered as something for hobbyists and not for critical uses. I’m sure everyone (myself included) would love to see the BSDs represented in the corporate setting as Linux has.
I don’t think that the FreeBSD team will do away with the Beastie, and I hope they don’t either. I do think that, like the NetBSD team did, they will incorporate something about the Beastie into the new logo. And I’m sure this is what they will be looking at from contributors. The NetBSD logo might not have the Beasties in it per se, but the flag still does hark to them for those of us that are in the know about our favorite *NIX alternatives. Plus, it looks good…simple, clean, and elegant, which is what corporations look at. A quick look at the design of a successful corporation’s web page will tell you that.
It’s just such a lame move – changing a logo and think you’ll have as much coverage as, say, Linux, just because it happened? FreeBSD team needs, no, MUST hire a good PR/ad person that’ll promote what currently is there, and I believe it’s not at all impossible. Even the daemon can be made appealing to the vague ‘professional businesses’ category, if the RIGHT person is handling these matters. Look at advertising/communication history – it’s all full of examples where it was excessive to change a corporate identity just to start a new life! Besides, I would believe, if they had some lame ‘cirles arranged on boxes’ logo, but it’s the Beastie! It’s the heritage, the legacy, everything! Those of you who say ‘oh, it’s just a logo, wth’ just think what you’d say if Linus said ‘let’s get rid of the ugly penguin, it’s so cuddly and fun, nobody believes we make an OS anymore, they think we make plush toys’. Stupid. “FreeBSD” is as vague a name as it gets (compared to “Windows” for example), so what LOGO are they going to stick on this name? It doesn’t mean anything, it’s partly a world and partly an acronym!!
Somehow I think they want a professional looking logo to impress these managerial types in companies. Often some dimwit managers make decisions on how something looks, not how it performs.
when the world will be so politically correct that no-one will be able to say nothing….
From the rules: “The logo must not exploit or offend a person’s sex, race, religion, morality, culture , nor be salacious or pornographic.”
It seems like a lot of people are already offended… 😉
My tattoo will be obsolete if they do this.
What I find really ironic is that the “enlightened” atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these “backwards” Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world.
Yeah. Too bad some of them can’t live by their own rules without trying to censor everyone else and try to impose their values and views on others who don’t want them.
Atheists, buy yourself a clue. There are a lot of religious people in this world. They never got up in large numbers and tried to force their view on FreeBSD.
Perhaps not but pretty much everything else.
These people merely might have been turned off by Beastie and FreeBSD so the FreeBSD team wants to make sure it isn’t happening.
It’s also known as selling out or giving in. Besides if they are so easily turned off, do freebsd really need these people? I would think beastie is more valuable than some easily disturbed weenies..
It is an OS, keep it neutral. If I never had heard about FreeBSD and was completely clueless about it, I would wonder why they have the “devil” there.
To appease any and everyone? Even if we disregard beasty’s fantastic strengt as a identifier for freebsd, as others have pointed out it will never end. There is always someone who take offence as long as you don’t use some completely pointless and anonymous letter logo like “IBM” or something.
And if you can’t see why Christians are offended, let me give it to you another way. I wouldn’t expect you to use an OS with Jesus with a big cross as a mascot with the slogan “carrying your burdens”. And even if you did, wouldn’t you wonder why they put religious symbols in an OS?
No I wouldn’t that’s correct. I also wouldn’t try to pressure them to change their ways, as I also wouldn’t give a damn (and thus not be offended) about why they included those symbols as I would never see them nor care about them or their OS.
In short: You miss the point completely. At least the impression I’ve gotten is that the majority of the really pissed of people here are angry about the religous people sticking their noses where they don’t belong, and not the religion as such. So, christian, go and buy yourself a cluestick and apply it to your head. Repeat if needed.
February-fool!!!
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only atheist to think that your posts are not only inappropriate, but flat out intollerant.
Your behaviour annoys me because there are many issues in which religious groups *really* tend to assume intollerant positions against the rest of society (staminal cells research is the most prominent example), and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you’re doing in this thread.
Nobody pressed the FreeBSD project to get a new logo. It’s a (wise, IMHO) choice they made, in order not to turn down any cultural, political or religious groups.
So, in this case, nobody’s making a holy war except you. Please stop it.
Well, I mentioned religious zealots in my post. I shouldn’t have. I agree wholeheartedly with Claudio and others. This has nothing to do Christianity – zealots can be present on both sides (if we can speak of sides at all). For instance, I am not religious, but lately I have trouble saying that I am an atheist per se. Not because I begin to believe in supernatural powers. I don’t. It is simply that whether one is open-minded or not is not decided/defined by an umbrella term (atheist/religious) but by his or her actions.
I have this friend who calls himself an atheist, and at every opportunity he engages in debates with religious people about the incorrectness of their worldview – whether they want to discuss the topic or not. Now it is not by chance that I choose to believe in what I believe – darwin, newton, s. hawking, etc. Whether I proclaim it or not I obviously consider the answers science provide better – just like a religious person considers his/her answers more acceptable. But it is entirely different when one acts like this guy does. Basically, his actions are very similar to pre 19th century religious “zealots” – their actions and his actions are the same in principle: “our view of the world is better than your view of the world” – and I’m going to show it in your face whether you asked it or not. Basically, what I mean to say is that Atheism can become religion for some folks, and ironically enough, they begin to act like witchhunters while openly declaring and believing that what they do is in the name of enlightenment and openness.
Sorry for the long rant, but I think it is a pity that half of this thread is about Christian/religion bashing (just read back some of the posts, they are no less arrogant than the arrogance they denounce in zealotry), and I apologize again if I contributed to this in my previous post.
They are probably going to keep the Beastie mascot. The most likely reasons for the new logo will be a) to gain a more professional look and feel, and b) from a printing point of view beastie sucks. Marketing materials need to look professional, and having beastie with all his washed out colours just doesn’t work.
Hmm,i must say i tried FreeBSD 4.3 for the first time because i liked that naughty play-mate.On the other hand i allways envied Gentoo for having such a professional and stylish logo at the same time.On the other hand a FreeBSD logo just as written that looks like it is chrome or cut out of a solid block of steel/cast iron could have something that appeals the vast majority of both worlds (as if there’re two camps).
@molnarcs
I have to apologize for saying “and others…” while I was not remotely thinking of your post which is – as always – extremely balanced and measured. And FWIW yes, I think that defining as “zealot” somebody who hesitates to use FreeBSD because of a daemon logo is quite appropriate.. Come on, if that’s not a zealot, who is.
I think that even most of the religious people easily agree on this.
I was just disturbed by the intolerance and anti-religious anger of some other posts, that is silly and, above all, counterproductive.
@MvD
OK, sit down, do nothing and let them thump bibles against your head. Religion has to be fought against. Not because it needs to be destroyed or anything (it will die eventually, I mean its going to be only downhill for them), its a simple self defense measure.
Err.. in *this* occasion, nobody’s thumping bibles against my head. When they do (and sometimes they actually do, as I said before), I fight, rest assured.
AFAIK, the FreeBSD project’s decision has nothing to do with bible-thumping – it’s their choice, nobody forced them. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I hope Beastie will stick around for a long time. I think de ´s the most powerful mascot. Tux is good to but a bit corny:) What about Hexley, the Darwin Platypus, is he going to be striped of his red helmet and tripod? He seems banned from the Apple website and they make sure you have to go through a couple of clicks from the Mac OS X page before you even see the word Darwin. There is a variation of Tux I really like. That´s the Slackware Tux smoking a pipe:) Clearly has to be banned to if Slackware ever is going to make it as an enterprise OS;)
“What I find really ironic is that the “enlightened” atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these “backwards” Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world.”
Really? Have you ever heard of the Christian crusades? How about the Salem witch trials. Gallileo might disagree with your ascertion as well. Has your priest been arrested for molestation lately. No. Maybe it was covered up. Extreme examples but it did/does happen.
The fact is people are responsible for zealotry, not any particular group including christians, atheists, or “insert belief/religion” here. There are going to be good and bad (I hate subjective terms) people in every segment of society.
Athiesm is simply a position. It does not mean they are anti religious or even concerned about another persons personal beliefs.
Also, people should brush up on the history of the daemon. Too much misinformation going around.
If FreeBSD does get rid of Beastie, he’ll still survive! There are legions of us devoted fans all around the world that will make sure of that. But please, PLEASE, don’t let get rid of him. Adopt another logo if you want, but still keep him around!
About my “staminal cells”… sorry, it’s stem cells, of course. Very bad translation.
And btw
SubAtomic Toad wrote:
They are probably going to keep the Beastie mascot. The most likely reasons for the new logo will be a) to gain a more professional look and feel, and b) from a printing point of view beastie sucks. Marketing materials need to look professional, and having beastie with all his washed out colours just doesn’t work.
I agree, especially with a)
What made you think I don’t see the difference between religion and belief? All I said was that religious BS has to be fought against. I am not going to sit around and let some bible thumper tell me what to do. And if my resistance makes them more angry, tough. I understand that FreeBSD did not change its logo because of bible thumpers (the majority of this segment of the population wouldn’t about FreeBSD anyway), I was simply commenting on a “do nothing against religious nuts policy”. The change of logo should be a good thing for FreeBSD as the new logo will hopefully be more corporate orientated, geeks will still be able to use the present mascot.
I understand NetBSD wanting something to differentiate itself from FreeBSD, but as even a Reformation Christian, I get the joke of the mascot being a “demon,” and I am not offended by it. Some of my brothers and sisters in Christ need to get a life and a sense of humor.
I think the decision was a healthy one.Imagine a solely FreeBSD server room with more than 100 mounted racks and those little devils on them (anytime in my room,heh.).Maybe for commercial reasons it’s wise to “mature” the logo a bit.
[i]Intolerance in any form is intolerable. Sorry. I’m tired of religious nuts shoving their beliefs down my throats. If they don’t want to do research on stem cells, then they shouldn’t. If they don’t think abortions are right, then they shouldn’t have them. But they damn well shouldn’t be able to tell me that I can’t. Fsck Them.[i/i]
Exactly!,however this thread is going very off topic.Correct me if i’m wrong but from the FreeBSD teams explanation i destil that their main concern isn’t a religious offence but merely an commercial decision to give FreeBSD a more mature look.
One of their contest rules is roughly:The logo has to reflect what FreeBSD is.Now i’m curious to know what the people who let themselves go so easily see in the FreeBSD logo that reflect/represents the actual OS.
I like the logo,a lot,no doubt about it,but sometimes it is better for the whole,not to do what you like yourself but what’s best in the overall interest.If that means changing the logo to get more execpted in areas where afterall the money tends to come from,that’s fine.After all what’s more important,the looks of a package or what’s inside?I’m confident though the new logo could look as *solid* as the OS itself.That is if it is necessary to somewhat sacrifise the logo for an better acceptance,buisiness profile.
Sry for the tags,lowers my acceptance heh.
Why they should not change it is something mant people anwsered allready (while they shouldn’t). Either you get either you don’t. I am very dissapointed from the FreeBSD people in charge (haha)… Even if I didn’t have the knowledge to be a hacker I felt very sad when what was called “hacker ethics” seemed to be lost. Now thinks like this on FreeBSD and NetBSD show that many geeks have lost the spirit and are good only on technology. The point is that all this was another way to express willingness to be absolutely free in a higher way of free (is this speech maybe?)
anyway. goodbye. I suppose most people nowadays seem to understand nothing but technology. Sad day. Back to basics.
Hey average geek start to educate your self on the following (random order)
cyberpunk
politics
hacker ethics
post punk
punk
industrial
opression-depression from everyone
dislike for the above
being free
feeling free
why alien is perfect (H.R. Gigers alien)
….
….
…
etc
Sorry for bad english (sic) haha
morrons.
farewell (because goodbye is a too good word babe)
quiz for the average elit hacker: who told the last one?
Since there seens to be a lot of FreeBSD users here, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a front end to Ports, like Synaptic for Linux. I would like to create such a project, also can anyone think of a name?
I don’t blame the religious. I blame the spineless FreeBSD team for becoming overly politically-correct and doing something this stupid.
Instead of doing this, they should teach those who are offended to be more tolerant of OUR beliefs, customs, and ways. The beastie is tradition, it is the BSD custom.
Keep the fucking beastie or I will NEVER drop another dime into the FreeBSD piggybank.
What annoys the hell out of me is that they scrap a perfect mascot to please a bunch of ignorant idiots just to be politically correct.
Its time for FreeBSD to move on and adapt a more professional logo so as to be taken seriously in business circles. Its the same reason you don not wear jeans and a Motley Crue T-Shirt to an interview. NetBSD’s new logo is ALOT better then its old one.
>>Your behaviour annoys me because there are many issues in which religious groups *really* tend to assume intollerant positions against the rest of society (staminal cells research is the most prominent example), and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you’re doing in this thread.<<
Intolerance in any form is intolerable. Sorry. I’m tired of religious nuts shoving their beliefs down my throats. If they don’t want to do research on stem cells, then they shouldn’t. If they don’t think abortions are right, then they shouldn’t have them. But they damn well shouldn’t be able to tell me that I can’t. Fsck Them.
And even if it is a stupid logo, you damn well know a contributing factor to this is the rise of right-wing conservative christian fundamoronism in the US. I for one am sick of it, and them.
Someday soon, Liberal Married Homosexuals are going to come to Kansas and Nebraska and Iowa to give condoms to unwed pregnant teenage girls after performing abortions without parental consent, so that they can do research on the stem cells and maybe even clone them!
Y’know BSD has been around a long time. It has history and Beastie is part of that history. Yes, it may be out of place now that America has become land of the dull and home of the literal but anyone who is offended by the logo can be told about BSD’s roots and how the logo came to be.
I’m not a Christian but I wear a Swiss Army watch. The logo on this watch is a cross on a shield. I don’t know the history of the logo but I wouldn’t be suprised if the cross has something to do with Christianity. Regardless of the history of the logo I like the style and design of the watch. Every Swiss Army product I ever saw has this logo so I just take it as part of the brand’s history and choose products based on their merits rather than their historical symbolism.
If FreeBSD fires Beastie we should fork a distribution of our own. We can call it TrueBSD (assuming this name isn’t already taken) and dedicate it to the historical excellence of all operating systems that have been represented by the BSD Daemon. We can simply take the current FreeBSD OS and replace all the new graphics with the original daemon ones.
Haha, what a lame argument.. In many ways tux is as non-corporate or un-professional – if you like that term better – as beastie is, however that hasn’t stopped linux from making inroads into the corporate world..
Please make a better attempt next time.
I like beastie. What i don’t get is how you can think of beastie as being evil. Just look at him! Give a 5 year old a plushie of him and they will think he’s cool.
I’m all for a nice abstract logo, I mean it must be difficult printing a daemon on your letterhead. However they should keep the daemon as the mascot (just like tux is the mascot, but not logo of Linux)
I doubt the logo is a contributing factor to success however. Look at the two most successful linux distros : their logo’s are a hat and a chameleon for christs sake.
Also I suspect the religious issue is a rationalisation on the part of the freebsd team. The stupid branch of christianity is definately spreading though – I think they just breed more than sensible people. (disclaimer: not all christians are bigots and in fact most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians 😉 )
Haha, what a lame argument.. In many ways tux is as non-corporate or un-professional – if you like that term better – as beastie is, however that hasn’t stopped linux from making inroads into the corporate world..
Please make a better attempt next time.
Tux isn’t visible in corporations moron, what is here is a bright Red Fedora! a perfectly acceptable Icon for Redhat linux.
And even if it is a stupid logo, you damn well know a contributing factor to this is the rise of right-wing conservative christian fundamoronism in the US. I for one am sick of it, and them.
I believe you are horribly mistaken. If i had a Bloody Jesus on a cross for the logo of my hypothetical OS i am sure the my Catholic customers would not have a problem with it. However if i wanted to be taken seriously in business markets i would abandon the logo for something less obtrusive.
I just checked out the page and it says :
“As of 2005-02-09, competition is not yet announced, and received 0 submissions”
I also don’t see the news anywhere else. Is this even official yet, or is it an osnews scoop ?
who cares about that religious context stuff.. who in the right mind would think that is anti-christian. you see this cute little deamon
Tux isn’t visible in corporations moron, what is here is a bright Red Fedora! a perfectly acceptable Icon for Redhat linux.
lol. You mean the people who use linux in their companies are completely unaware that the mascot of linux is a penguine? I suggest you resync with the reality.. And in what way is a farking red hat or a chameleon more professional than beastie? I’m afraid the moron is you my friend..
I never understood why the same people that want to take prayer out of school because prayer has nothing to do with education are so adament about keeping the “demon” in FreeBSD even the the logo has nothing to do with FreeBSD. Just like prayer in school might offend some people, the “demon” might offend some people too. And you can argue about it and say the people who don’t want to pray are just cry babies and should just take it like real man, or you can do the right thing and say prayer has nothing to do with education, let us take it out.
Now here is the situation with FreeBSD. The “deamon” in FreeBSD is bad because a) it offends some people and gives them a negative first impression and b) it is very unprofessional for companies in general. So why should we keep it? You can say people should be less sensitive, or you can weigh the costs of having it versus not having it.
Now you tell me, what do you get by keeping Beastie (in terms of technical excellence and capability of FreeBSD)?
“(disclaimer: not all christians are bigots and in fact most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians 😉 )”
Is that a fact?
……most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians 😉
I will respectfully disagree with that statement all religion in general has always been the bane of mankind.
No prayer in school is not about ‘offending’ anyone. It is about being forced to take part in a ritual that you might not necessarily believe in. So it’s there so going to school won’t infringe on your freedom of religion.
Well, any fairly complex ideology can be used and misused. Look at what the nazis did to Nietzsche. Christianity was often misused in the past centuries for various reasons: to keep the status quo for instance, to justify the king’s power, to keep people in their place with promises of afterlife punishment/rewards, etc. Does that mean that the Bible or religious authors should be discarded as having no value? That is a pretty narrow-minded opinion. I have Freud, Nietzsche, and Schleiermacher, Kiergegaard (both deeply religous authors writing about religion and christian ethics – among others – respectively. Buddhism from a historical perspective doesn’t fare any better than Christianity, although the overrepresentation of the priest cast (~25%) played out differently in Tibet. Does that mean that Buddha’s Fire Sermon should be discarded? Finally: I was born in Roumania and now I leave in Hungary. Should I detail what was done in the name of Atheism and Cultural Materialism in Communist countries? Again, does that mean that we should not read Marx – one of the most original and insightful authors in the past 2 centuries?
Athiesm is simply a position. It does not mean they are anti religious or even concerned about another persons personal beliefs.
Agreed. However, just like any other fairly complex ideology, atheism will have its own share of zealots doing the same thing witchhunters did 2 centuries ago. Yes, I know they don’t burn people, but that doesn’t mean they won’t if circumstances were the same. And it doesn’t mean they didn’t – and we don’t have to go too far back in history to come up with examples when people were harrassed, abused, imprisoned or even killed because they were religious.
What I fail to see how bible thumpers came into the picture of this logo-contest. Or rather, I believe that we were too quick to jump to conclusions, and say that it must be because of those damn Christians. I believe the real issue is what Janeiro said:
RTFA, people:
“And this daemon character seems cute from somebody’s point of view,
but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional
products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside.”
while i think their mascot is fine, they obviously feel pressure from professional organizations to try to look more “professional” (whatever that means). any mention of religion is solely included for historical context and has nothing to do with their decision.
I really really like Beastie, as I said before. I think we should look for ways to modernize that image or make it more professional/logo like instead of discarding it.
As a side note: the fact that this thread turned into a debate about religions underlies the Project’s point (even if it wasn’t their point originally lol) more than anything else, which is quite ironic imho.
Who decides whether the BSD mascot should be changed or not? Who owns BSD? They “owners” should tell the users so that we can decide if we use the OS or not. This “neo-con style” decision really gets in my nerves! At least we still got OpenBSD I guess…..
… however we have the opportunit to choose the next logo.
amen brother
I see my comment got modded down….ok, I veered from the topic somewhat…whatever…. :-p
Long story short….keep the Beastie…next??
This will sign the death of FreeBSD.
How could they believe such crap?! Who said beastie is evil?! This is totally non-sense, it’s a logo, it’s not the CD cover of a heavy-metal release…!
I think the reasons are the same as NetBSD. Do extremist Republicans threaten BSD distros?
The word “daemon” in greek means “server” (the person, not the hardware). This is neither good nor bad, if it has to be either one, then it’s good.
Oh please, wake me up, it’s a nightmare!!!