I have been an omni-platform user, Windows, OS X and Linux user for some time now. I love different things about each platform and loathe just as much as I like about all three. The release of the Mac Mini at MacWorld really made me wonder if Apple made good move in jumping into the low range market. I decided the best way to see was to compare the Mini to my primary box, a similar system in specifications and price.The Works
How does the new Mac Mini stack up to a homemade box? I didn’t want to do the comparison to a Dell or a Gateway/eMachine bargain deal. I wanted to use a system I have built for day-to-day users who want what the Mac Mini market is hoping capture, namely internet and “digital lifestyle”(how I hate that term) markets. This is my present setup at home as well as the setup I have built for a few folks including “Mom and Pop” newbie users:
Antec Aria Case w/300 Watt power supply
Size is 7.9″ x 10.6″ x 13.2″ $119.00
Intel Celeron 2.6gHz chip, 400mHz Bus speed, 128KB L2 cache $99.00
SY-P4VGM v1.0 micro-ATX Motherboard, Socket 478 for Intel Celeron Processors (includes 4 USB 2.0 ports, 1 1394/Firewire 400 port, 10/100 Ethernet, Compact Flash/SD reader, on-board sound w/audio in, out, mic with included 8-in-1 card reader) $65
Xtasy/ATI Radeon 9200SE Video Card, 8x AGP, 128MB DDR w/VGA, DVI- I and TV/S-Video $74
PNY 256MB PC133 SDRAM DIMM 168pin Memory Module $65
Western Digital Caviar SE 80GB, 7200RPM, Internal SATA Hard Drive $75
Sony 52x32x52 Internal IDE CD-RW / 16x DVD-ROM Combo Drive $60
Mandrake Linux 10.1 Download Edition $0 or Windows XP Home Edition SP2 $150
Weight 7.5 pounds
$557 with Linux, $707 with Windows XP
Here is the new, and I admit, very cool Mac Mini:
240 Watt power supply
Size is 2” x 6.5” x 6.5”
1.42GHz PowerPC G4, 167mHz Bus speed, 512KB L2 cache
256MB PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM, expandable to up to 1GB
ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB DDR video memory AGP 4x
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
Slot loading Combo drive at 24x16x24
Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet and 56K V.92 modem
2 USB 2.0
1 Firewire 400 port
DVI or VGA video output
Included TV/S adapter
OS X 10.3 w/bundled software
Weight 2.9 pounds
$599
So, how does the new Mac mini stack up to a homemade machine? Lets take a look:
Appearance, Size and Power: Even. The Mac has the same quality construction as the iBook and appears to be rugged and pleasant to the eye and without a doubt is smaller. That said, the Antec Aria case is stylish and modern with its included blue neon front lights and mirrored black finish. The Aria also has extra power to give with a larger power supply. Advantage: For aesthetics, Mac Mini by a landslide. For power, Home Built for the larger power supply.
Processor: I have had opportunity to use both the Celeron 2.6ghz in my present machine and a 1.25ghz G4 in my girlfriend’s 12” Powerbook. While the G4 performs well, the Celeron seems snappier and, for a bargain chip, has a much better bus speed than the G4. I would like to see how the 1.42ghz chip feels with more RAM than 256MBs. It might change my mind. Advantage: Home Built
Hard Drive: Both are 7200rpm. Who knows the difference anymore? Let’s call this one even.
Removable Media: If we were strictly speaking about the combo drives, the edge goes to the home built machine. The Sony drive is faster, no doubt. We firmly have to give the advantage to the home built machine when we add in the included 8-in-1 reader that comes with the Antec Case. Advantage: Home Built
Video: 128MB vs. 32MB. AGP 8x vs. AGP 4x. Both have DVI, TV/S and VGA connections. Both are ATI branded. One is better in this case but to be fair, I could use the same card in my machine but had the better one in there for the cost comparison. Advantage: Home built unless you use Linux. Due to the lack of games for Linux, unless you want to use Cedega, a 32MB card in the Mac that can run some popular 2D titles makes it a slight, very slight winner. The 3D experience while using XP, however, makes the card in the Mac seem puny and outdated when firing up titles like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3.
Plug-in Ports and Networking: The Aria and Mac Mini are equal here on the surface only. Both have a 10/100 Ethernet card, Two USB 2.0 and one Firewire port included. The Aria has an additional two USB 2.0 ports on the 8-in-1 reader but even with the extra ports, Firewire just works better with Mac. The Mac Mini also has a 56K modem included. Advantage: Mac Mini
Software and OS: No worms or spyware to worry about on Linux or OS X. Mandrake is free and OS X comes with the Mac Mini. Both are stable, professional operating systems that look great. Clearly, though, OS X trounces Mandrake on software with titles like iLife. There are Open Source products that do video, photos and music like KdenLive, Digikam and Rhythmbox but nothing really stacks up in the Linux world to the integration and ease of use available with iLife. Add Garageband and iDVD to the mix and you have a true winner. I still have to choose OpenOffice.org over iWork for now, especially with the great improvements made to the 2.0 Beta. Maybe iWork will prove me wrong when I get a chance to use it. Now, if you add XP to this mix and have either knowledge or access to someone who has knowledge of basic computer security, you will see XP even out the OS X advantages. Advantage: Even for OS under the right conditions. Even for online use and productivity. Mac Mini for multimedia and XP for “big name” titles.
So how does it add up? The Mac Mini is a machine I might buy if it had a better video card and more/faster RAM. 256MB of RAM for OS X is just too little out of the box and 32MB of video is a real disappointment for anyone who was looking for a small form factor gamer of the PPC flavor. At least it isn’t shared video RAM. The cool factor just isn’t enough to push the purchase or make me advise the purchase to newbie users unless they were really set on Apple or had some knowledge of their product line. As a matter of fact, as much as I like the look and idea of the Mac Mini, I think its small size might scare “Mom and Pops” away from it. The Aria was a hard enough sell because the average user still equates size with power. It isn’t like selling an iPod.
Apple has probably produced a winner with this model but the winners are already in the Apple camp. I am sure Mac fans will gobble up the machine in the coming months but I don’t think the “Halo Effect” they were hoping for, namely iPod users looking to switch, will gravitate toward this offering.
Of course, only time and holes in the reality distorion field will tell.
About the author:
Brian Czarski is a omni-platform Systems Analyst at a K-12 school in Baltimore, Maryland. He is a self-professed gadget fanatic and a hack writer at eXtraheavymarcellus.com, a blog about life in Baltimore, Technology and how it all comes together.
The processor is somewhat weak and the video card isn’t that hot. The mini-mac isn’t a horrible deal though.
Let the flames begin.
They are not, in fact, trying to capture the build it yourself small pc market. They’re trying to capture people buying Dimension desktops for $499 or eMachines, and the like. This would be why their marketing literature specifically mentions Dell.
great job bro. thanx ! I will go out and buy a mini.
🙂
Bas M
The hard drives aren’t the same. The hard drive in the MacMini is a 4200RPM Laptop drive from everything I’ve read and seen.
When the G5 came out, everyone said “Yeah, but I could build a dually for less that was (maybe) faster!!” Are we seriously back to this again? I think it’s safe to say that the macmini won’t be stealing many customers from the cheapass BYO market. However, contrasting a BYO box with the minimac ignores on crucial fact: that BYO box doesn’t, and won’t ever run OS X.
anonymous two posts above me is clearly trying to get people to unwittingly sign up on his link so that he can get their referral credit. Save it for your friends.
… it’s about the SOFTWARE! Apple’s software in general is _VERY_ high quality, follows user interface guidelines and is designed for ease of use.
Everyone just compares hardware in numbers against Mac mini and forget that *software* is where the real value is.
It ships with great set of multimedia appls: iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, iPhoto, GarageBand.
Also two games included: Nanosaur 2 and Marbleblast gold
Fully-featured, altought already a bit aged, but still very good for home usage office suite: AppleWorks.
Great webbrowser, email app, and lots of other goodies.
Not talking about The Great Operating System!
PC-solutions cannot offer any of these for the same price. Not really even with higher price. It always falls to usability.
Even if the Mac Mini had an ATI 9600 Pro, people would be complaining that they should have included at least 9600 XT. And Ad Nauseum.
It’s a value Apple PC. Get over it.
I have a AMD 64 3200 Shuttle based system with 1gig of ram and a Radeon 9700 in it..
But I’m buying a Mini also..
The 64 box sucks down so much power I cant leave it on all day unless I feel like I want to pay the bill. Even my bigger systems were sucking down too much juice.
I use another shuttle box for Linux use and the wife has another that runs XP.
I will probably buy a mini for her so she can continue doing what she normally does on the internet without all the hassle.
I will either buy a Mini or a iMac G5 depending on what I consider my needs to be.
Also the 80 gig drive for the mini is a 80 gig 4200 rpm drive unless someone has something saying it’s not..
This is not a gamers Mac though I’d be tempted to see how world of warcraft plays on it..
I’ll also buy my parents one to replace that POS dell they currently have and hate also.
When the G5 came out, everyone said “Yeah, but I could build a dually for less that was (maybe) faster!!” Are we seriously back to this again? I think it’s safe to say that the macmini won’t be stealing many customers from the cheapass BYO market. However, contrasting a BYO box with the minimac ignores on crucial fact: that BYO box doesn’t, and won’t ever run OS X.
I don’t think you even need to go there. According to this review, the machines are, hardware-wise, pretty comparable. They have a similar feature set and similar price. (not quite the same, but neither system is blowing the other out-of-the-water)
This is good news for the mini, since if you stack a Mac mini with OSX and iLife against a BYO with Mandrake, assuming they’re otherwise comparable machines, it’s pretty clear which setup most consumers will choose. So I don’t think he’s Mac-bashing at all.
Wow, a comparison that did not completely ignore case size. The DIY computer is still bigger, but thsi guy at least made an effort to build a resonably sized machine compared to other people. This makes so much more sense than the other comparisions out there that pit the mini against a tower cased Dell or DIY machine.
For me the attraction to the mini is because of size and price in that order. If Dell had a computer the size of the mini I would care, but as it stands now I would not consider buying a PC bigger than a shuttle case. Since 2002 PCs have been fast enough for me, now I want my desk back. It is the same reason I do not consider CRTs, sure you can get one that is cheaper and can do better resolutions than an LCD but who cares. The LCD performs good enough for me and comes in a reasonably sized package.
My 1.25Ghz PowerBook has served me welll – it is my sole computer. I do web development using all of Macromedia’s bloatware, Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks, along with Photoshop all running in unison. In addition, Watson, Safari, OmniWeb, Text Edit, Preview, Notebook, iTunes, iChat, Fire, Fetch, Mail, CocoaMySQL, MySQL, Address Book, and iWork (now called iBiz) are usually all running too.
In school as a student of Computer Animation, way back in ’98, we were stoked to be running SoftImage and 3D Studio Max (yechh!) on 300mhz P3’s with 128 megs ‘o RAM. That was a smokin’ set up.
Granted, with OS X, RAM is huge – I myself will be upgrading from 512 to 1.25 GB’s as soon as possible – (the kind folks at my local Apple store allowed me to test my set up with a Gig chip swapped in for one of my 265’ers – what a difference!!!!)
This Mac Mini will be a great machine.
I was amazed at the specs on this guys PC so I started to look into it to get one for myself. The motherboard he says he uses doesn’t come with a 8 in 1 card reader or a firewire port http://www.soyo.com.tw/products/proddesc.php?id=273 also why would he buy a serial ATA drive for a motherboard that does not support it. Maybe if could get his specs correct with the prices then I will read what he has to say.
“great job bro. thanx ! I will go out and buy a mini.
:)”
I will to and my dad who has a Dell, he’s getting one too.
“While the G4 performs well, the Celeron seems snappier and, for a bargain chip, has a much better bus speed than the G4”
Yes the celeron FSB is at 400Mhz but his pipeline has 31 stages against the 7 stages of the G4.
So the fact that you found the celeron snappier is in your mind, knows it.
Why was a Celeron chosen? The AMD Sempron is a cheaper and better chip. Or get a low-end Athlon 64 for almost the same price these days, which would be even faster.
http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2316
Damien
You simply can’t compare the two systems by comparing the components…
You have to compare the finished system as a one-piece design.
Not by comparing processor Mhz, or Video RAM.
Compare actual user experience…
It’s like you’re saying a custom Yugo is better than a Volvo, because the Yugo has better tires, or a better stereo…
Please.
Compare the COMPLETE system, including user experience…
I like and use Windows Systems, but I think MacOS X is cleaner, faster, and better than Windows.
I use my Windows PC for some things, and my Macs for other things…
But all this silly commentary that is based on comparing the Video Chip of the Mini to other chips, or the speed of the G4 to the speed of Celeron/P4 systems, without comparing the actual user experience, is just blowing hot air…
COMPARE USER EXPERIENCES. Don’t compare components..
I can put together a system using the top of the line components that will work like crap if misconfigured, or loaded with crappy software, etc…
I’m tired of PC Zealots making useless comparisons to be able to say that there’s something wrong with the Mini.
There’s NOTHING wrong with it.
It’s a nice box, at a nice price.
Don’t want one?
Don’t buy it.
Geez!!!!!
it is not realistic to compare a home built machine with a manufactured machine. The included software in the Mac Mini blows away anything on Windows. Of course OS News never misses a chance to be negative to the Mac with unrealistic user reviews. Remember the awful iBook review?
“The hard drive in the MacMini is a 4200RPM Laptop drive from everything I’ve read and seen.”
Not only that, but also going from an 80 Gig drive on a PC to a 120 Gig (with 8 Mb cache) would cost about $20 extra, while with Mac Mini you are pretty much out of luck in that respect.
Btw, anyone has a link to the picture of the Mini’s power supply?
Everyone is saying how cool iLife package is but I rather have a Mini without one. That is one of the problem with buying a Mac. You are force to buy software that you don’t want or need. I rather Apple let me save some money by dropping iLife software package when buying the Mini Mac. I have no use for iLife.
One benefit of the MiniMac is that prices are going to come way down on used power macs.
People are going to ask the question of why should I buy a 900 mhz G4 for 700 bucks? I can get a new one for 500.
And you really can’t make a comparison between a cheap put together x86 box and the mini mac.
I can point to eleventy different combinations of x86 components that will hit the price mark, or any other point I select to compete against, but this is a complete system.
With operating system.
So lets play a number game, if a copy of OS X cost 139 dollars, and a copy of Windows XP cost 139 dollars, in reality that means the minimac only cost 380 dollars.
Put together an x86 box for the same functionality and price.
Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.
@Admiral Horror
No, you are NOT out of luck with a Mini Mac…
You simply buy the 120gb (or better drive) and an External FW case for $35, and you are set.
You don’t buy this machine to be an expandable miracle machine…
It’s an inexpensive, all-in-one, what you buy is what you get, box…
If you want something expandable, buy a used G4, or one of the newer G5 PowerMacs.
People will “hack” expansions into the Mini. But, it isn’t designed for that.
Just like people hacked the “Hyperdrive” or SCSI into Mac 128’s/FatMacs.
s/friends/losers/g
The free mac stuff are pyramids schemes where they try to get you to rat out people you know. Participate at your own risk!
“You are force to buy software that you don’t want or need.”
And where exactly is this different from buying a trashy Dell?
Can you actually buy a Dell (or any other brand PC) without Windows of some sort, and thus getting Media Player, Internet Explorer and other kind of unwanted software?
If you don’t like the software Apple includes with the Mini, then don’t use it – just remove it…
Even when we know the specifications of the mac mini, it is to early to compare it to anything. None of us have used one yet. So we will have to wait and see how it performs. Later, let us see how it sells. The size is one of the mayor factors to buy one. I havent used a G4, so I cannot compare it to anything. However, 2.9 pounds it is incredible. I hope the computer sells. I would love to see more OS X around.
I don’t get articles like this that compare machines that differ in the end user. One who builds his own system is certainly not the target market of the Mac mini. Save yourself the trouble of reading an article like this and visit:
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandorange…
This is the type of machine comparison that should be considered with any seriousness.
dude…. iLife is given away for free with new Macs.. there is almost no added cost when they add software. the hardware costs what they hardware costs, and the software gets put on for free, that is why they are a hardware company, not a software company. you think that Sun adds a cost to the price of their machines because of their software they put on it? no, they don’t.
…sold my dual 1.24 G4 on EBay (which was promptly snapped up within 30 minutes, btw) and bought one. The only thing I wish Apple would do us take pointers from Dell on how to get one out the door in less than 1 month’s time!! 8/ Because I didn’t take the default configuration mine isn’t due to ship until Feb. 15.
I added memory, bluetooth and airport card. Also got the superdrive and wireless keyboard/mouse (which already arrived to torture me some more).
Mike
The Mac Mini comes with the full version of Quicken also. That’s about a 70-80 dollar added value there.
That really sweetened the deal for me, because i was going to buy a macintosh eventually anyway for Office and Quicken, preferring not to keep a windows machine around. Cheaper mac+quicken sold it for me.
yes.. much better comparison. the fact that Apple is mentioning Dell and other OEMs in their literature and NOT the BYO market tells you that they are not competing with BYO.
id get one but i want and ibook more so i need to keep saving
Well, I don’t want to buy a computer without an operating system for sure. Well, either Windows XP or Mac OS X since I don’t use Linux. Beside the standard softwares that come with OS(Windows XP), there is nothing else that I am forced to buy from Dell. Of course I can remove iLife from the Mini but then I am forced to pay for it. Unless, iLife doesn’t cost anything then I guess I am making a stupid point.
The mini is actually something to consider, if not for the price difference outside US. With a budget plane ticket I can actually pop over to New York and pick up 2 minis to break even:-)
Regarding OS X, how long does Apple support older versions? When do they stop providing security upgrades, forcing you to buy an upgrade?
Does the mini come with any kind of wordprocessor? I’m not sure what iWhatever dos what. Or do you have to buy one? iWorks?? Besides you can get LyX, so perhaps it’s not needed:-)
I find it difficult to give much credence to reviews and evaluations from users of a machine that is not yet shipping. How seriously are we expected to take an analysis based solely on Apple’s published specs?
One example: This article, and others, criticize the Mini’s video capabilities, presumably based on the 32 megs of video ram in the machine. But, if you are only doing 2D work — precisely where this product is aimed — 32 megs is just fine. Sure, if you want to play 3D games, this video system doesn’t appeal. But, it is fair to ask, why would any rational gamer consider buying a Mac Mini? Apple will happily sell it to gamers, but they aren’t the intended market.
When it is time for me to buy a new computer, the Mac Mini will be on the top of my tryout list. Why? Because it can do everything I ask my current box to do, and it isn’t big and ugly, it isn’t noisy, and it doesn’t heat up the room.
Like mentioned above the Mac Mini IMO offers a better complete OS solution. No spyware or viruses on OS X. Plus it comes with iLife, so the basic home user won’t have to buy and install a bunch of other software, its all included. IMO this puts the Mac Mini over the edge.
I am sure when Apple does their accounting the software division has to claim some profit from the actual inclusion of iLife in every Mac. Of course, they don’t claim it at retail price but still at a certain value. It sucks to be in a division that only has expense and no revenue you know. So, somewhere along the line, it does has a monetary value attach to it.
Oh yes. One for my mom and one for my sister. That saves me at least 4 hours each month to fix up their windows stuff. No spyware, hardly any virus …. and the mini comes with free ilife 5. That’s cool too. Apple’s order confirmation speaks of 3-4 weeks delivery times already …. which means demand is high!
the only place that the software has a monetary value is when it is sold separate to legacy hardware owners. the profits from the hardware sales are just that.. hardware profits… those profits do depend on the quality of the software, but the software is only subsidized by the hardware.
BTW.. on a Dell you get a whole lot of crap as well added on.
>BTW.. on a Dell you get a whole lot of crap as well added on.
And most software on the Dell actually cost you something, since it’s not developed by Dell and they have to pay for it. Dell gets great discounts so you get it cheaper than buying separately, but the cost is there.
Interesting choice, putting a celeron system together.
Or was the PC133 SDRAM included a mistake?
He’d almost be better off buying an Chaintech NF2 board with an XP2600+, but that would not include a DVI port. But the price would drop substantially on the whole system, except that he’d have to buy 2 256MB sticks. But I think a reasonable system nowadays should have 512MB on it anyways.
The mac mini is interesting but it isn’t anything groundbreaking. Caters to the current MAC fans but I’m not sure if it will have much widespread appeal. Perhaps it might make mini itx systems more popular and therefore cheaper.
Good story? I haven’t read it yet, but I thought I’d contribute a similar piece from the other side.
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandorange…
“For years, people have criticized Macs for being more expensive than Windows PCs. Although at one time that was the case, those of us in the know realized a couple years ago that when you look at comparably equipped Macs and brand-name Windows PCs—that is, once you add the hardware features and software to a Windows PC that come stock on a Mac—the differences in price are much smaller, if they exist at all. This aspect of “price comparisons” has been lost on many tech pundits and analysts (as is the fact that Macs generally come with an excellent software bundle unmatched on budget PCs).”
They have a PPC build right? If they do then yes yes you can.
What a useless comparison. I got news for you buddy, I have never bought a Mac of any kind and have been a PC user since 1979, and I just ordered one. I am not in the “Apple camp” as you put it. Can’t you people see that somebody might want to buy this new Mac just because. Not everything in life has to be a comparison to something else. I don’t give a crap what video card it has in it, I just want one!
How come home builders never factor in labor costs, shipping costs, the hassle and wait time while purchasing components from 10 suppliers, and waiting on rebate coupons to be cashed in and sent out to you into the cost of their machines?
When I consider the cost of my own time (not only salary but benefits as well), an hour of labor is worth $20-$30 to me.
Of course, builders will say, “I can build you this machine in a half hour”, but I don’t buy it. It’s not just about part costs…
When you spec it in a usable fashion like adding a super drive and 1gb of memory. I personally want one to replace my aging titanium to do video editing. Anyone in the market for a fully loaded 15″ titanium 550mhz?
I wouldn’t say so just because it’s compiled for PPC. They actually need the specs of the Mac hardware to make AmigaOS run on it.
BeOS PPC won’t work on any G3 or later Macs.
Apart from that, you can always run it in Mac-on-Linux.
I’m somewhat disapointed by this article. The guy is basing his comparison by a tech sheet? I would think he would sit the two computers side by side and actually use them. This article is worthless to someone deciding on whether to buy a mini or not.
Let’s hope someone writes a real article in the future and not this crappy fluff piece.
“The mac mini is interesting but it isn’t anything groundbreaking.”
I beg to differ. It’s not just the HW but the combinaiton of the two that makes this product groundbreaking. And unlike anything out there on the market today. The size and form factor and connections that are standard on the HW makes this premium product. When you facter in price $499, Apple’s OS and all the iApps and third party Apps this becomes unlike anything seem in the computing market today.
“Caters to the current MAC fans but I’m not sure if it will have much widespread appeal. Perhaps it might make mini itx systems more popular and therefore cheaper.”
Google the term Mac Mini and see the results you get. You’ve got every thing from the ultimate home theater system to car multimedia centers. And it’s been out on the market, what, a week? Jan 11.
HA!
4,850,000
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.moz…
dude.. itx gets blown away by a mini is power and form.
my 800 MHz Duron can outclass an 1.4 GHz. itx system
But does the PC run OS X and all the iApps? No? Well then it’s not the same!!! ;-D
As someone already pointed out in this forum if you want some kind of zippiness as I do in my machines, the price ends up being 1300 dollars. I built for my friend an athlon 64 3000 with 512 mb memory, ati 9600, 80 gb 7200 rpm hdd, case, heyboard mouse setup with monitor, mobo (of course) for less than 700. The only drawback is that it runs xp and not Mac OS X. I see the only reason to buy a Mini would be….err none. I would rather with that 1300 dollar price by a different apple machine like err…oh wait none of the machines cause for the price you pay mac machines are too friggin slow!!! I love Mac OS X believe me but I have to look at performance for my money as a student.
I fully believe it’s people like me who are being targeted by Apple. I purchased my Mac mini the day they were announced and I just saw today that it shipped yesterday and that I should receive it the day after tomorrow.
I’m certainly not a Mom and Pop, don’t know anything about a computer user. I have Windows XP and Ubuntu installed on my 6-year-old, built from scratch PC at home. I used to love to tinker with my PC, adding components, formatting my hard drive and reinstalling operating systems once ever couple of months, etc.
Then, I got married. Then, my daughter was born. Now, I’ve been married 2.5 years and have a daughter who’s 16 months old. I’m an IT professional working in the government industry. I now barely have time to even use my computer at home, let alone tinker with it and fix problems with it. I want something that meets my needs of ease-of-use along with advanced technology.
We have an Apple store at a local mall here and I fell in love with Mac OS X the first time I used it. It was so easy to use, yet so advanced. I decided then that I was going to make the switch. Actually doing it though was another issue. I simply couldn’t justify the cost to my wife. Not that she runs the show or anything, but when she’s a stay at home mom and we live on my salary, money isn’t something that’s taken lightly.
The iLife apps are built for people like me. I loved the fact that using iPhoto, I could easily manage all of the digital photos we were taking of our daughter. I loved the fact that using iMove and iDVD, I could create movies from the video we were taking of our daughter, burn them onto a DVD, and send it to my parents who live 500 miles away. I loved the fact that everything just worked, and worked well.
I tried to use Linux and find something that worked as well as the iLife apps. I never was able to find anything to suit my needs.
So, I was resigned to the fact that I was going to switch, but would have to save and scrape money together to do it (without making it a priority over the other things needed). I couldn’t wait to finally have a Mac companion for my iPod mini.
Then, Apple saved the day and came out with the Mac mini. It was everything I wanted and had the right price to boot. As of Friday, I’ll make the switch and not look back.
In my opinion, Apple’s strategy is to get people like me first. People who want to switch, but haven’t been able to take the leap yet. Then, once people like me are converted, we’ll convert people like our parents. I was at my in-laws house last night for 3 hours trying to remove viruses and spyware from their Windows XP computer. I’m going to try to use my mini to convince them to make the switch too.
good observation… the mini is not meant to be speced out to the max and bought (well you can and apple allows you to do so… perhaps because some folks want the size and the features and they will pay for it) but they have made this perfect for some one to add on to their current systems, or to replace an aging system that has the Monitor they can reuse.
if you want a system with power and features you will need an imac. if you want as system with features, an emac is a possibility ( the emac is respectable running wise, so compared to what you were using you will probably enjoy it, but it is heavy)
but do not expect the mini to be a powermac in a small form factor.
And don’t forget to get on of the best webcams… iSight!!!
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/ichat.html
Four way video chat!!1!one!eleven!OMG!
http://images.apple.com/macosx/tiger/images/ichatvideochat3_2004062…
the basic configuration is no slouch. the mini is not a gaming station, not can you do things like motion on it… it is a system built for people who want to get work done and want to not spend a lot of money.
power/price is not a good argument is you do not intend to actually use the power of the system you want.
do I buy a formula 1 car because I want to go to work and the store? heck no.
I just wish Apple had offered a 64MB video card on the higher priced model. And would it have killed them to make 512MB of RAM standard across the board? 256MB is a joke, especially with the 4,200 RPM drive, as your virtual memory file is going to be constantly hitting the disk, thus slowing down the OS.
IMHO, there’s nothing “wrong” with the MacMini… besides the prize. It’s expensive comparing with an PC with better components… Also, anyone who uses MacOS X (I do at work, like windows and linux) agrees that it performs a lot better with 512MiBs de RAM… but again… nothing really wrong, just another “iProduct”… (with good software quality anyway!)
You are in the same boat I was 3 years ago when I dumped Windows and Linux for Macs just at the time my first child was born. And you know what? I am SO glad I did. The iLife apps are awesome. My dad turned 60 a year ago and I scanned in a ton of photos of him growing up and combined it with some video footage and made a 20 minute movie for him that I burned with iDVD. You can drag and drop songs from iTunes into iMovie for your soundtrack, add fades, titles, and other effects. Made a DVD menu and everything. Piece of cake. I’ve made movies of my son as he has been growing up and put them up on my .Mac homepage so all our friends and family can watch ’em and they love it.
You will be glad you switched.
Sell the software on Ebay and recuporate your funds… problem solved.
I agree with your point modman. It is for people who dont care about performance. But if I buy a computer I would want performance. And as Fatal Claws pointed out the base config should be a bit higher for example with the RAM. 256 mb is a joke! Especially with Mac OS X I am sure. And couple that with a hard drive running at dinosaur rpms, and you got yourself a nightmare in your hands. All I am saying is that no one can consider the base version of the mini a great deal. All it has going for it is the OS. Why would not a person want the best for their money? If I could afford of course I would buy a formula 1 car!! I use all the power my system provides me. So for me more power less price is better or else the usability of the machine goes down.
“And as Fatal Claws pointed out the base config should be a bit higher for example with the RAM. 256 mb is a joke! Especially with Mac OS X I am sure. And couple that with a hard drive running at dinosaur rpms, and you got yourself a nightmare in your hands. All I am saying is that no one can consider the base version of the mini a great deal.”
256 is NOT a joke. It’s the minimum amount of ram the os will work with. It does work better with more (as does Windows XP). Yes, 4k rpm drives are slow.
As for saying a base-mini is not a great deal? I beg to differ.
News-flash… this just in… in the base-mini too underpowered for you?… buy a iBook/Powerbook/iMac/or G5 tower…
For 500$ this is a GREAT deal. Is it underpowered for some users? Yes… Will upgrading to their level make it more expensive? Yes… Are there other systems that Apple sells that would better suit their needs… YES.
//The 64 box sucks down so much power I cant leave it on all day unless I feel like I want to pay the bill. Even my bigger systems were sucking down too much juice.
…
I will either buy a Mini or a iMac G5 depending on what I consider my needs to be. //
So … you’ve got the dough to go buy a freakin’ G5 … but at the same time, you can’t afford to pay the electric bill ’cause your Shuttle uses so much power?
Come again?
it’s a laptop drive. Not all laptop drives are 4200rpm, they’re available up to 7200rpm nowadays. I don’t know what model is actually in the Mac Mini, does anyone know for sure?
the card reader is in the case, not the motherboard. It’s terminated in a standard internal USB jack which you connect to any spare USB header on the motherboard.
“How come home builders never factor in labor costs, shipping costs, the hassle and wait time while purchasing components from 10 suppliers, and waiting on rebate coupons to be cashed in and sent out to you into the cost of their machines?”
Last build I did…hmm. I went to the local Netlink store, bought all the components, stuck them in the car, brought them home. That took half an hour. Built the system, that was an hour. If you want to count installing the OS, that took a couple hours, but most of that time I was doing something else. Call it an hour. 2.5hrs, even at $20 per hour that’s $50. And I wish someone would pay me $20/hr. Sigh.
XP Pro costs AUD$479 and XP Home costs AUD$325. (www.microsoft.com/australia/pricing/). Other software may need to be purchaced too to make it equivilent to a Mac Mini.
To be honest, I can’t think of too much that XP Pro has that OS X doesn’t, but if there is, and you wanted to be really cheap, you can always use Fink (or equivilent) and get it that way anyway 😉
Please, when BIY guys are quoting prices for how they can build a machine so cheaply, please talk about the cost of s/w that you will need. If you are opting for a Linux solution, then mention that too. When a Mac Mini price is given, the OS and other bundled s/w is included in that price…
I’m still not saying Mac Mini is a bargain, I think its a great price for a Mac, but what I am saying is that you have to factor in the cost of s/w.
B.T.W. A lot of people upgrading from a PC to Mac probably won’t be able to use the k/b and mouse they have, as most out there are probably still PS2 or COM, so it’s good to be aware of that too. The parallel printer they might be using could be an issue too, not to mention non supported scanners. I’m sure all this has been mentioned before, but still good mention again I guess.
“You’ve got every thing from the ultimate home theater system”
Just ROFL. If I were in the market for the ultimate home theater system I’d want hi-fi grade audio and enough power to upsample to HDTV resolution, encode to high-quality MPEG4 on-the-fly…this thing ain’t scoring very well so far.
I’m wondering if the author of this article has actually physically used a Mini Mac yet ?
I’d love one to be honest, just to get more hands on with osX and because it’s got a tiny footprint. It’s a little bit bigger than my monitor/keyboard switcher and would look just awesome sitting on top of it.
My one complaint would be lack of a mic or line-in audio port, I guess there wasn’t enough space to include it ?
>>B.T.W. A lot of people upgrading from a PC to Mac probably won’t be able to use the k/b and mouse they have, as most out there are probably still PS2 or COM,
I was thinking about this the other day. But it is not apple fault. They set the standard. The dropped FD long time ago. But PC keeps thinking about compatibility with old hardware. USB has been around enough, for us to be using PS/2 and COMs. Yes I know they are many applications that still used, and some crazy designers (sometimes I include myself) create some stuff using them (even UPS still use COMs for comunications, and I use a serial microsoft mouse (best mouse ever)). Anyway, I extended this too much. My point is that probably alot of people will have to buy a mouse and keyboard, because PS/2 is still a standard. By the way, I read somewhere that Apple sells a RCS/S-video connector for the mac mini for $16. Hmmmm, if it is true, it makes the mac-mini a very good option for a car computer. Another question, does the ATI Wonder Remote works in Mac hardware?
OK, I’m typing this on a iMac G4 1GHZ with 256MB of RAM running Safari, Entourage and importing a few hundred emails right now into Apple Mail with KeyChain open and Activity Monitor. Not fast but totally useable. The Mac mini will not be a race horse with 256MB of RAM but will be quite useable.
In my experience HD speed and memory seems to be more important. I ran MacOSX on a 400MHZ G4 for several weeks but it had a fast 7200 RPM drive.
>>My one complaint would be lack of a mic or line-in audio port, I guess there wasn’t enough space to include it ?
Many people have complained about it. I gues it is okay. It is not only necessary to use garage band like many have posted. In my case I have a cable box, that I would like to plug to it without any other interface. Just like I have it right now in my PC. But anyway, it is not included so I cannot do anything about it, just find a solution. But I bet that many trying to use the mini for HTPC, will find the lack of the port very annoying.
You are a prime example of where Mac rocks, and nothing else compares. Yes, there’s doze software for that, but none of it will integrate so well and be so obvious to use…
I on the other hand can’t stand doze, and don’t particularly like OS X.
However, if Mini’s are quiet they’d make a great computer, better than a Dimension; which isn’t quiet. You see, a G4 does something no celeron, P4, or Sempron can dream of:
Not waste 60 watts of heat energy.
If I remember correctly it runs comparable to Pentium M, at about 14 watts average? But hey, considering things like the audio ergonomics of a machine would be something that people who think ahead do; not the average Dell customer. So, are Mini’s quiet?
It is possible to build a quiet P4, I’ve seen several. ASL sells one with linux preinstalled; the things are about as loud as a pin drop (at the level of ambient noise). Also, the mini uses very little space, yes shuttle does too. And finally, OS X is massively less hassle than Windows XP. And once again, I don’t really like OS X!
But this lays it out pretty well as to why the Mini is still no great buy:
http://pcnmac.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=145
Please, when comparing prices, compare everything. When you spend days fixing / configuring / removing spyware / compiling / screaming frustrated, a mac is a lot cheaper. The mac just works, or doesn’t, in which case it will never work and trying to fix it is pointless.
If for example this saves you on average 1 hour a week, and you earn $10/h, you can buy yourself a new mac each year. The TCO really matters, ask microsoft
This dude is high on something, a P4 2.6 is in no way the same as a G4 1.42. He needs to get a slower P4 to be mroe equal, more like a 2.0ghz model. And what’s with the SATA on the P4 and ATA on the Mac? Gee, talk about no comparison there as well. He should compare a 80Gb ATA drive to an 80GB ATA drive…. And he’s really high on something when he quotes $150 for XP SP2 Home Edition. ??? I think not, buddy. More like $99. Then the AGP discrepancy… dear lord… This is one messed up comparison. Apples versus Oranges.
Ok, how does this get on OSnews? Used to be a good site…now not so sure. Some random guy compares his homebrew box to the stats of the minimac, and somehow, that makes it news.
The telltale is in the second paragrach of the comparison: his box v. her iBook. It’s like Road and Track sitting there with a tuned beater and comparing that to a production mustang GT.
Tell you what: instead of posting some fake “comparison”, get one from Apple, then tell us how it stacks up.
Can’t believe that OSNews is that starved for info.
I use lower spec 800mhz G4 iMac “lamp” with 512mb of RAM and 60GB HDD to create music and home movies. I also play Quake 3 Arena on it.
My sister-in-law’s family has a high end Dell. They used a digital video camera to video tape parts of all their kids (16 and 14 years old) soccer games. Then tried using MS’s movie editing software that comes with XP to make a movie. It was OK but they were really frustrated with the software.
I brought my Mac over to their house and showed them what I could do with iMovie (iTunes for music) and iDVD. They were STUNNED at how much better the movie was. And that was with them sitting at the keyboard asking me questions as to whether this or that could be done.
After all that they asked how my Mac compared to the new ones. I told them the specs and that it was a whole generation behind the newest ones. And that iMovie and iDVD would have run faster if I had more RAM in it.
They’ve always been a MS fans with three Dell computers and an XBox. Guess what. They bought a 20″ G5 iMac with 1GB or RAM and love it. Now they all fight over the iMac and their three Dells are being used less and less. When they use them (because someone else is using the Mac) they feel – rightly so – that they are using the second rate computer.
And yes, their kids love playing games on the G5 iMac.
But this lays it out pretty well as to why the Mini is still no great buy:
http://pcnmac.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=145
Depends on who you are. For a power-hungry money-starved geek, a PC is probably the better choice – but then again, power-hungry money-starved geeks aren’t the target audience of the Mac mini anyway, so their opinion is kinda moot.
PS: They bought the G5 iMac four months ago. Now that the Mac mini came out they are looking at buying two of those to get rid of the other two Dells so they won’t have to fight for the iMac anymore.
How will they pay for them? They are selling their Dells on eBay.
” If I remember correctly it runs comparable to Pentium M, at about 14 watts average? But hey, considering things like the audio ergonomics of a machine would be something that people who think ahead do; not the average Dell customer. So, are Mini’s quiet? ”
duh there is no ventilation…
The only software that I don’t need to run, won’t run on the Mini running Mac OS X is Malware, Viruses, and Spyware.
Most business only need Microsoft and that’s on the mac.
Graphic software,,,,,,,,,the mac has it.
Video/movie editing,,,,,,,,it’s on the mac
Motion Graphics……………….and that’s on the mac to.
Linux……………………..that too.
A guy could sign in once a decade and the same argument is still going on.
Reminds me of a conversation I overheard. Two companions were arguing over who was the biggest idiot.
What is it with people always saying you need more than 256MB or a faster CPU to run OS X?
Here in my IT shop I’m running a 400MHZ G4 with 256MB of RAM.
I manage hundreds of MAC’s on the network besides using it for the internet, office and so on. This machine runs VERY FAST.
Apple has optimized OS X to run on any G4. Heck I even have hundreds of iMac G3’s running 10.3.5 just fine. Its a little slow but usable as they are all logging in to OS X servers.
Needing more RAM or speed really depends on what you are doing.
For most people epecially the average Joe at home the Mini is going to be more than enough and at least you have the option to upgrade the RAM without it being shared and even add a superdive among other things.
>>Can’t believe that OSNews is that starved for info.
This article is not the one making news. It is the mac mini. For good or for bad. Some people think is not a big deal, others see it as their way to scape from Wintel. I would love to see statistics about how many minis have been ordered already. I would like to see also how you people are planning to use it (combinations or scenarios to implement it).
Unrealistic pricing. An OEM copy of XP Pro SP2 from auspcmarket.com.au is AU$253 inc. tax. You are legally entitled to buy an OEM copy with any significant hardware purchase.
“and I use a serial microsoft mouse (best mouse ever)”
Best mouse ever? With a 40hz refresh? I find that tricky to believe. The first two PS/2 Intellimouse generations were identical but with PS/2 connectors in any case, which have 80hz refresh by default and can be adjusted to 200hz via third-party utilities, so all the good points of the MS serial mouse and no downside. A good modern optical mouse is far superior to optomechanical in all cases now, anyway. Find a pro gamer who still uses an optomechanical mouse, except the few hardcore Razer nuts who are still hanging around…
I’d love to get the Mac Mini right now, but with 10.4 (Tiger) around the corner I’ll wait. Hopefully, they will add a video card that fully supports Core Image and increase the video ram.
The extra time will allow me to save more money! 😛
“You see, a G4 does something no celeron, P4, or Sempron can dream of:
Not waste 60 watts of heat energy.”
Further down you guess at 14W, as well. Neither statement true. Someone posted in another thread that design max power draw for the G4 is 25W. The Athlon XP-M CPUs have design max thermal power as low as 30W, and they’re fairly cheap Socket A CPUs. I run an XP-M 2500+ in my HTPC, cooled with a Vantec Stealth 80mm fan intended as a case fan.
“And what’s with the SATA on the P4 and ATA on the Mac? Gee, talk about no comparison there as well.”
Why? No current hard disk can come close to maxing out the headroom on either (ATA’s max headroom is 100MB/s officially or 133MB/s with Maxtor’s unofficial extension, SATA’s is 150MB/s). Most standard drives get to 55MB/s or so, max. WD’s Raptors can get over 70MB/s flat out. Buy a motherboard which can take either SATA or ATA, buy a Seagate 7200.7 SATA drive and a Seagate ATA 7200.7 drive with identical platter configurations and cache, and they’ll perform identically.
@ Thavith (IP: —.234.240.220.dsl.comindico.com.au
When purchasing a new PC, refer to OEM release not retail release.
“Last build I did…hmm. I went to the local Netlink store, bought all the components, stuck them in the car, brought them home. That took half an hour. Built the system, that was an hour. If you want to count installing the OS, that took a couple hours, but most of that time I was doing something else. Call it an hour. 2.5hrs, even at $20 per hour that’s $50. And I wish someone would pay me $20/hr. Sigh.”
In one respect, EXACTLY! That would add $50 to the home built machine making it MORE EXPENSIVE for just a free Linux installation.
But, in another respect, you completely miss my point: People who buy sub-$500 computers are not home builders. There is no way they could build a computer in a half hour or even 3 hours including software. It would take them much longer. They wouldn’t even know which components operate with one another. They probably don’t even know what netlink is. (As far as I can tell, it is a Canadian only store.) So… there is no way you can say that this labor is reasonably estimated at $50… You cannot reasonably presume that this is an option for most people.
IF the said Sempr0n was a K8-S754 Paris core then it may have cool’n’quiet function.
Download Right Mark’s CPU Clock Utility for cool’n’quiet enabling i.e. some mother boards doesn’t give p-states profile.
“and I use a serial microsoft mouse (best mouse ever)”
Best mouse ever? With a 40hz refresh? I find that tricky to believe. The first two PS/2 Intellimouse generations were identical but with PS/2 connectors in any case, which have 80hz refresh by default and can be adjusted to 200hz via third-party utilities, so all the good points of the MS serial mouse and no downside. A good modern optical mouse is far superior to optomechanical in all cases now, anyway. Find a pro gamer who still uses an optomechanical mouse, except the few hardcore Razer nuts who are still hanging around…
LOL. You are missing my point Adam. I didnt say the most advance mouse ever. I have optical. For the love of God, of course I know that there are a million better mouse. But this freak has never give me any trouble. I love the dising of the end conector. How many of you get the PS/2 conector damage or where the cable enters the mouse. As a ex Help Desk I used to change that cable alot or redo the connector. However, I never had to do it with this mouse. Comming from Microsoft, well I think that is a great product. So dont take it personal. LOL.
Why the people how says stuff about OS X (performance) are Windows users. I am a Linux/Windows user. But I want OS X user to tell me how does it feel. What are the requirements. I want to hear the people with experience on OS X. Please, if if not too much to ask.
Since when is omni-platform Linux, MacOS X, and Windows?
What about solaris, hp-ux, AIX, OpenVMS, OS/2 Warp, BEOS, and DOS?
Thank you for your answers!
(please don’t moderate me down for this simple question, even if u have a bad day 2day, thx)
I’m interested to run Mac Mini with Amiga OS, is this a bad question??? Come on…
Refer to http://techreport.com/ja.zz?comments=7857
And I quote…
<p>
Here’s what I was able to come up with in about 10 minutes poking around Newegg:
Shuttle MK40VN motherboard (10/100 LAN, 6 USB, audio) – $39
AMD Sempron 2300+ 1.583GHz Socket A Processor (Retail box) – $61
256MB PC2700 memory – $31
Radeon 9200SE 64MB (DVI, VGA, TV out) – $36
WD 40GB, 5400RPM hard drive – $54
52x32x52x16 CD-RW & DVD Combo Drive – $31
Black mid-tower case with 350W PSU – $29
That all adds up to $281, which is a far cry from $505. And when you’re building a system, you can get an OEM copy of Windows XP Professional for about $150, which is less than the comparison’s $199 retail copy. If you’re going to spec out a DIY PC, you might as well do it right.
</p>
Also refer to HP-USA’s SR1000Z models. I reconfig HP-USA’s SR1000Z for $599 target.
This HP-USA SR1000Z includes.
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Professional with SP2
AMD Sempron(TM) 3000+ operating at 2.0GHz
256MB DDR / PC2700, expandable to 2GB @PC3200.
80GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive
48x max. CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive (48x32x16x48x)
9 in 1 Card Reader (Can’t deselect)
128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200XT, TV-Out
Integrated 5.1 Capable Sound w/ Front Audio ports (Can’t deselect to 2 channel audio)
Compaq Keyboard & Scroller Mouse (Can’t deselect)
‘MS Works Suite 2005’
Expansion slots includes 3 PCI slots, 1 AGP8X slot.
2 Firewire 400 ports (Can’t deselect to 1 port)
USB 2.0: Six (2 front and 4 back)
Headphone: One (front)
Microphone: Two (1 front and 1 back),
Line in: Two (one front, one back), Parallel: One (back)
————————————————-
Resulted to $$594.99*.
HP also bundles the following…
—
Apple iTunes
RealPlayer
InterVideo® WinDVD® 5 player (in models with DVD drive)
Intervideo® WinDVD Creator (in models with DVD writers)
RecordNow (in models with CD writers or DVD writers)
Intuit Quicken New User’s Edition 2005
Adobe® Acrobat Reader 6.0
Adobe® Photoshop Album STE
Adobe® Photoshop Album Starter Edition
Compaq Organize
Microsoft® Software Jukebox
WildTangent GameChannel
—
As usual, PEECEE drones just can’t seem to grasp SIMPLE concepts. You can’t quantify a Mac just by looking at it from a hardware perspective. There is absolutely NOTHING on the Windows side that even comes close to the Mac mini at this price.
It should be obvious to everyone that separating the OS, bundled software, and user experience from the hardware when doing these types of comparisons is competely unfair. Then again, what can we expect from the Windows world, where tight integration between the OS and hardware is a merely a pipe dream?
That’s nice, I said Sempron. And I was wrong, Dothan is about 21watts on average; but Pentium 4 is well over 60 watts. And remember, I’m speaking average, not sleep or max. Anyway, G4e is supposed to be about 40watts, so I was remembering that wrong as well.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:xgLKN66chC8J:arstechnica.com/c…
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:11n3oZJ7190J:arstechnica.com/n…
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:ztSWDvGYyGcJ:arstechnica.com/a…
The Mini ships with the minimum memory to get up and running with MacOSX. I recommend anyone running MacOSX to at least have 512MB and the more the better.
Apple really should have tried to jam a 3.5″SATA HD into this system. an inch taller and it still would beat every single ITX system in size, its that small. But there is FireWire where you can hook up a fast external HD and you can daisy chain FireWire.
The processor speed is fine. I’ve seen lots of people being very productive on lesser speed G4s.