Along with the iWork productivity suite (“Pages”, a word processor with style) and the Shuffle Flash-based iPod, Apple introduced the Mac Mini: a small Mac Cube: 1.25/1.42 GHz G4, combo drive, 40/80 GB drive, fw/usb/ethernet/modem ports. This is the most affordable Mac ever, starting at $499. My Take: Very nice product, but I am dissapointed because it does not have Line-In and Mic connectors! The Mac Mini web pages advertise the product in conjuction to iLife big time but GarageBand feels pretty useless without such connectors! There is always the iMic of course, but hey.
Apple Introduces the Mac Mini
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Go find me a $500 pc with 1g network / 800 firewire and built-in wireless, then will talk.
I’d trade a 1G network (which almost nobody has to their desk), and 800 firewire (again, which almost nobody has on their video equipment), for a processor that doesn’t blow as hard as the G4.
And if you can’t do web development or programming without dual monitors you must not be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
I can program or develop websites on any system that can run a text editor. In the past I’ve done some fairly heavy programming on a 386 laptop running MS-DOS. But I wouldn’t use it out of choice, or work as efficiently as I can on a better system.
Having more than one display is incredibly useful when multitasking apps and working on multiple documents. IMO for programming and design, screen space can be much more important than CPU speed or even UI elegance. It’s all about choosing the best tool for the job.
It doesn’t have a MIDI port either… or built in nearfield monitors…. or a 48 channel digital mixing desk…. or a word clock out… or balanced and unbalanced inputs… or a multi-slider/knob control surface… or a piano keyboard… or any of that stuff. Its just a frickin basic computer.
A little, cheap computer.
No mac ships with ‘professional’ quality audio I/O out of the box, they all require addons to be really functional in a studio. If the lack of a built in line-in is a show-stopper for you, you can’t have very hefty requirements w/regard to audio/music.
None that a cheap little USB sound addon couldn’t solve.
probably already been said, but there is no PS2 mouse & keyboard ports, i actually prefer PS2 ports for my mouse & keyboard, and using the USB for flatbed scanner and digital camera…
Ray, I wondered when you would crawl out from under the bridge.
‘I’d trade a 1G network (which almost nobody has to their desk), and 800 firewire (again, which almost nobody has on their video equipment), for a processor that doesn’t blow as hard as the G4.’
A processor that blows harder than a G4? How about any VIA processor for ITX systems. These processors can barely play a DVD or run XP yet the PC boys drool over these systems. Celerons suck too.
G4 will work just fine for home users. This is not a Quake3 box. Whenever you talk about Mac stuff it almost always sound like you speak from inexperience.
I run 10.3.7 on a G3/500 iBook with no problems and this is my field laptop at work so you really don’t know what you are talking about, again as usual.
ahahahaaaa you dolt.
macs have used USB keyboards for years, which replaced the ADB connector, and never used PS2 peripherals, which would be incompatible with every apple keyboard and mouse ever made.
Really, what, exactly, is the benefit of an extra 2 PS/2 ports over an extra USB port? Abosolutely none, as far as i can see.
Next you’ll be complaining that it doesn’t run Windows XP natively and that you can’t find a version of MS Anti-Spyware for it
These are legacy ports. Even Dell is getting rid of them. I don’t see the point.
I might be finally getting a mac now that i dont have to spend a arm and leg to get started. Way to go apple. Hopefully they will take some market share with this move.
Its what the Cube should have been. Its a third of the cost of the Cube, and for that reason, will probably sell like crazy.
I have agree with Eugenia about the Line Out and maybe the line In.
I think line out is a must if you want the ouptut on your HIFI. Line in would be nice too but I personnally wouldn’t care.
However I won’t bitch about the mic. If your only goal is to put in a cheap 4.99$ mic in you could as well buy a cheap USB mic. Just do a froogle search and you’ll see this is available everywhere. Or you can use the bluetooth option if you wan a (shitty sound quality) headset for Skype. Yes I know bluetooth is an option.
When I bought my iBook I didn’t complain that if I wanted an external keyboard, I had to buy an USB keyboard instead of the old PS2 keyboard I already had. Everything’s is being standardized on USB and I think in the long term it’s a good thing, even if at some point it involves that we get rid of old hardware.
Somehow it’s the PC industry that really sucks with the USB thing. The last time I wanted to buy an USB keyboard I was shocked to see so many keyboard (the vast majority) only had PS2 connector. Who, on this site, does own a PC with no USB ports?
This mac mini is amazing! Apple has done it again! Like said before I think this will be the year of the mac, with the mac mini, ipod, mini ipod, and the new ipod shuffle. The mac mini will get people who wouldn’t normally buy a mac because of the price to buy one. On the same note the ipod shuffle will be attractive to people who don’t want to spend $300 on an ipod, and those who have a smaller music collection. Its too bad it doesn’t have a display screen, but who knows, maybe the next model will!
Great job apple!
I’ve been thinking about buying a usb key drive since everyone in the army has one. Never thought it would also play music. hehe
Mac mini is great. So tempted….maybe for my girlfriend, who admits my powerbook is much more reliable, “cuter”, and easier to work with than her Dell Laptop, but hasn’t switched yet.
iWork? i was skeptical until i noticed both apps together for $80. Thats pretty inexpensive considering keynote v.1 was $100 yesterday.
The one show-stopper in iLife ’05 is the new iphoto with iTunes like searching. I’ve been waiting for this feature forever, and it will finnaly make my photos easily findable (I have over 2000 in iPhoto, and once you have that many you need a filter feature). I’ve already put in stuff in the info box of most of my photos in anticipation of this day
Garageband Jam packs. What? are those still $100? Who spends all that extra money for some new loops? One of lifes greater mysteries.
Tiger makes me cry. I can’t even name what feature i want the most ’cause they’re all so great. Except for automator. I really don’t think i’ll ever use that. But dashboard, spotlight, quicktime, ichat, safari- yea i’m crying.
Wonder if BMW have the word “Mini” trademarked.
“Garageband Jam packs. What? are those still $100? Who spends all that extra money for some new loops? One of lifes greater mysteries.”
I bought one because it had more amp simulators in it. They aren’t just loops, they are extra instruments too. I also downloaded some extra drum loops, because when Garage Band first came out it didn’t have a simple half beat to practice with.
Ray, I wondered when you would crawl out from under the bridge.
I’m starting to regret it. Mac threads are always so ridiculously silly. I’m by no means an Apple hater (I love my iPod to death, and think the new G5s are kick-ass), but I absolutely hate Apple for the G4-generation of computers, and the resultant spawning of legions of complete ignoramuses that kept chanting “megahertz myth” over and over.
A processor that blows harder than a G4?
No, I said a processor that doesn’t blow as hard as a G4.
How about any VIA processor for ITX systems. These processors can barely play a DVD or run XP yet the PC boys drool over these systems. Celerons suck too.
You’ll get no argument for me, those processors are total crap. I can see their in a “quiet” machine, or a home multimedia computer, but presumably, the iMac mini is a general purpose machine, and thus needs a CPU suitable for general purpose use. The G4s belong in $200 Walmart PCs, not $500 Apple PCs.
Whenever you talk about Mac stuff it almost always sound like you speak from inexperience.
I use Macs all the time. They are all over the labs around here. I like ’em, and think a G4 machine would be fine for a word-processor/internet machine, but then again, so is my 7-year-old PII-300, but I wouldn’t pay $500 for it.
– Great standalone web server, Jsp users install tomcat or jboss
– Great HOME Server, now I can share my ITunes songs to this server, and Photos, and my Wife can connect to it when she’s got her computer on. No more, “Honey, please load me your music and our photos while you’re watching that football game”.
– Great Test box for YellowDog Linux, when you don’t want to risk installing on your main machine.
Extra:
– Great little box to run FoldingAtHome.
– Great Price: OS X and IWorks and ILife05 included.
– Great Upgrade plan this year and next, Just buy another Mini, just port your home folder to the new machine! ( Well, not exactly that easy, but, high value quotient. )
This is basically an iBook with its head cut off. Like the iBook, it doesn’t have audio-in or line-out ports. Unlike the iBook, you can probably drop it down a set of stairs without breaking the monitor (i.e., because the monitor is in the next room).
I very much regretted that there wasn’t a similar headless option when I bought my iBook two years ago; the issue will now become Mac’s limited willingness to support certain categories of non-Mac hardware … i.e., just how many different screens will it be able to hook up to? Will I have to pay $40 for absurd connectors to link from a “proprietary” mac port/cable to a non-proprietary one (as I have to with a traditional TV)? etc.
– As a web server we need a vcn tutorial to be able to remotely log in.
Anybody have any good links?
Apple made a tough decision to stick with the G4 and they paid the price for it. IMHO it is not a bad processor just severly underdeveloped by Moto. I think Apple will be using G4 class processors for some time until a G5 can be fitted in a PowerBook.
Apple did play out MHZ myth a little too far, AMD outguns everyone in this arena with 64.
I use a dual 1.25 G4 and this is a great MacOSX machine. A single G4 1.25 is more than adequate for MacOSX.
Five hundred dollars for a MacMini isn’t bad considering that you are probably getting one of the smallest and quietest personal computers made.
It has standard DVI and VGA so you can hook any monitor up to it… not sure where you were going with that one.
One problem: why would I pay $200 to update to “Tiger” (OSX-10.4) when I can buy new hardware that includes it for $500? Apple seems to be setting up a scenario in which new hardware is cheaper than their own new software –especially if you look at the entire bundle (iLife, etc.) that this MiniMac will be shipped with. Seems like waiting for Tiger than buying one of these would be smart … even if you just want to load the software on your old Mac.
P.S. could someone write or link to a good article about running YellowDogLinux on Mac hardware?
I could get a PC the same size.
http://www.sumicom.com.tw/
To even use the USB Mic you are also going to have to get a USB hub. This thing only comes with 2 USB ports… one for your keyboard and one for your mouse.
“One problem: why would I pay $200 to update to “Tiger” (OSX-10.4) when I can buy new hardware that includes it for $500? Apple seems to be setting up a scenario in which new hardware is cheaper than their own new software –especially if you look at the entire bundle (iLife, etc.) that this MiniMac will be shipped with. Seems like waiting for Tiger than buying one of these would be smart … even if you just want to load the software on your old Mac.”
Tiger isn’t $200, but you have a point.
“P.S. could someone write or link to a good article about running YellowDogLinux on Mac hardware?”
It’s not really that different from running on x86. Graphical installer, same unix commands, blah blah. No Flash player though.
“To even use the USB Mic you are also going to have to get a USB hub. This thing only comes with 2 USB ports… one for your keyboard and one for your mouse.”
Mouse plugs into your keyboard, so there’s one left on the Mac itself. If it’s just a mic for voice recording you can plug it into the keyboard also (keyboards have 2 USB ports).
Yah, but those are ugly and old.
Plus, its not a Mac.
I could get a PC the same size.
http://www.sumicom.com.tw/
Yeah, and exactly how are you planning to install OS X, iLife, Quicken, etc. on it? That, of course, not mentioning how ugly that box looks…
What a useless comparison; buy that taiwanese thing…
Someone asked if the hard drive was upgradeable–apple uses industry standard components so you can swap your hard drive out immediately and put in a larger 300 GB ATA drive of your choice. The memory is a little more finicky so I’d go for a crucial upgrade (unless you’re down with kernel panics). Video cards are flashed with PowerPC specific features so don’t go thinking you can swap out your Radeon 9800 256MB card from your win box and think things will be honkie dorie.
Other than that, yay apple. I’m going to make an xgrid of these things. Does anyone know if dvd to avi is something that you can do in parallel i.e. with xgrid?
What a useless comparison; buy that taiwanese thing…
Where do you think most Apple products are made? LOL
Not me, but I DO own a PC with 4 USB ports, all of which are used (two USB gamepads, one USB mouse, one cable for my digital camera / Neuros – they use the same connector, handily). It’s rather helpful to have PS/2 ports for peripherals, frees up two USB ports for something else. As others have mentioned, this thing only *has* two USB ports – plug in a mouse and keyboard and you can’t plug in anything else! Then you start adding powered hubs, which ruin the looks and add to the price…the firewire helps, but lots of stuff doesn’t have a firewire port.
>>I could get a PC the same size.
Not even close. IMac == 2.9 pounds, I still can not believe it.
Long time ago in a galaxy far far away Apple invented something called fat binaries. That means you can create one binary that is executed on 32-bit and 64-bit CPU architecture. You can read more at http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html . Now if only MS, AMD, and Intel could do the obvious….
Not likely – in a box that size the hard disk is probably 2.5″. The biggest 2.5″ drive I’m aware of is 100GB, not 300. I hope they used a fast 7200RPM model, not a sucky 4200RPM one…
As pointed out already by another poster, the mouse plugs INTO the keyboard AND there are two USB ports on the keyboard. So including the keyboard you have 4 USB ports. SHEESH!
Not me, but I DO own a PC with 4 USB ports, all of which are used (two USB gamepads, one USB mouse, one cable for my digital camera / Neuros – they use the same connector, handily). It’s rather helpful to have PS/2 ports for peripherals, frees up two USB ports for something else. As others have mentioned, this thing only *has* two USB ports – plug in a mouse and keyboard and you can’t plug in anything else! Then you start adding powered hubs, which ruin the looks and add to the price…the firewire helps, but lots of stuff doesn’t have a firewire port.
>>Not me, but I DO own a PC with 4 USB ports, all of which are used (two USB gamepads, one USB mouse, one cable for my digital camera / Neuros – they use the same connector, handily). It’s rather helpful to have PS/2 ports for peripherals, frees up two USB ports for something else
You have a point. The thing is that the industry forgot that USB was to be connect a peripheric to another. Basically only monitors (some of them) have followed this.
Where do you think most Apple products are made? LOL
And what does that fit in this thread? I was talking about the poor comparison you’ve just made. The box you point is ugly and has no OS, no software no nothing. Just a bunch of i386 hardware packed together. But that, put it in some nice looking xmas paper and deliver it to “john doe”. Tell me who’s online and reading his/her email faster, in a more secure manner and more happy.
Don’t forget to send the i386 user a bootable CD so he/she can install something. Preferrably not an XP Pro copy downloaded via torrent. In any case, if Windows is your OS of choice, don’t forget to streamline it with SP2 and make sure to instruct the user to avoid connecting to internet prior to installing some Avirus (not included, but you could use a free copy of some sort), and spyware protection. Also remind him/her to start SP2 Firewall…
Do not compare apples to oranges. This apple cheap box is a productivity box that “just works”. Don’t expect this mini box to be seen in recording studios or cleaning the latest digitalized version of starwars… it’s clearly not intended for that.
>> I could get a PC the same size.
Cheap boxes are fun.
If you just wanted to run linux, maybe.
– But, this Apple gives you a Hell of a software bundle as well.
Not even close. IMac == 2.9 pounds, I still can not believe it.
Why are you finding this difficult to believe ? It’s just an iBook without a screen. There’s nothing revolutionary to see here.
I hope they used a fast 7200RPM model, not a sucky 4200RPM one…
This is Apple we’re talking about. They’re not exactly known for their hardware generosity. If you’re _lucky_ it’ll be a 5400rpm drive in the high end model, but it’s probably 4200rpm in both.
They are going to sell these as fast as they can make them. People are going to come up with all kinds of uses and hacks. Oh it doesn’t have line in and mic? Boo-hoo. Its $500. Get a grip.
“As pointed out already by another poster, the mouse plugs INTO the keyboard AND there are two USB ports on the keyboard. So including the keyboard you have 4 USB ports. SHEESH! ”
Well, that’s a good thing, but does it have to be an Appple keyboard for the extra USB ports?
Well, that’s a good thing, but does it have to be an Appple keyboard for the extra USB ports?
Highly unlikely. The two USB ports in the back of my MS Natural keyboard at home work fine with my iBook.
So does the faster cpu justify the cost difference? I might get the 1.25 and just load it with RAM.
The MiniMac is silent.
Ogg would be great for all three people that use it.
ADC is gone. Live with it. Thats a good thing. There are all sorts of ADC adapters which I’m sure you know so quit whining.
Im all signed up for one of these. Not worried about the proc at all. OSX needs ram not proc. Feed it a gig of ram and its a happy camper. 1gb ram for minimac from newegg = $100. Only issue holding me up is Tiger…..and that I want it. I’m not going to buy a Minimac now only to have to buy Tiger in a few months. I wonder if they will have a free upgrade deal with it?
Once again Eugenia is clueless in her haste to bash apple. Logitech and Microsoft make kebyaords and drivers for Macs with the keys in the right psotiions.
Anyone who is seriously into Garageband is going to buy at least an iMac.
This machine is not for 99% of the people posting here except for those like me who want a cheap small quite Mac to play around with. Get that through your head. People saying it should be a G5 etc. are in lala land. Most people browse the web, do their finances, some word processing, MP’s,e-mail, and digital cameras. Mybe a little cheesy digital video of their kids. That is who this machine is designed for. Your going to see every college dorm room in the country with one or more of these. No spyware and viruses. No crashes. Easy to use, great interface and great support. None of which you get with a lame crappy $499 Dell (after rebate).
All most people will need to do is add another 256MB of ram. They will sell these as fat as they can make them and you will look like the fool that you are.
Looks like an oversized Lunch box to me.
Does any know if an external tv card can be hooked up to a mac, I would love to use this a video recoreder, or player, what about software?
only 2 usb ports? keyboard uses one, mouse uses the other. how do i connect my ipod and digicam without buying a usb hub?
only 2 usb ports? keyboard uses one, mouse uses the other. how do i connect my ipod and digicam without buying a usb hub?
You plug them into the two empty USB ports on your keyboard.
i have a logitech kb with no usb ports, and my midi controller works only with usb ports able to draw power, can the apple kb do that? still sucks though that i’d have to purchase an apple kb, sadface =
then plug your mouse into your keyboard
you can get them at MacMall for $29
What do you mean, “the” keyboard? There isn’t “a” keyboard. Not every keyboard is a USB hub, though Apple’s may be.
(Of course, the keyboard I’d *really* want to plug into this system if I bought one would be a good ol’ IBM clicky keyboard…but they only come with PS/2 plugs, even from the people who own the license now. Sigh.)
“Does any know if an external tv card can be hooked up to a mac, I would love to use this a video recoreder, or player, what about software?”
Look up things like eyeTV. There are quite a few.
You can run S Video and composite video out by using Apple’s DVI to Video Adapter.
What the hell will you be doing with your 3 Ghz monster? What will you be doing with your PC that you couldn’t do one year ago when you had a 1.6 Ghz P4?
This thing is so bloody beautiful I feel like buying one… even though I just book an iBook. I just need an excuse 🙂
From the specs I have seen in your post you must be doing:
– 3D rendering
– Gaming.
– Number crunching. Maybe you are scientist?
Or is it the unexplainable need for more? Just like when you order the biggest burger, just because you can afford it even you can’t eat it all?
For all the rest, the specs are just fine (with 512 mb instead of 256). They are basically the specs of the iBook I am typing this on and I can work on it just fine. Or do you think I just didn’t work at all before 3 Ghz PC showed up? Actually.. I still have a 3Ghz PC. A shuttle in fact. That cost me much more than the price of this mac (had more power). And I paid it more because it was small and nice. It’s still three times higher than the miniMac and was a (relative) pain to carry around from home to work.
WHY do you feel that need for more speed always. I do believe you. Your config is faster. It’s as faster as it’s uglier and heavy. And then. just TRY using mac os x for some weeks. Not just playing around at an apple store. Just that is worth the 499$ (+100 swiss francs that they add here after conversion.. sigh).
I just wish it was x-mas so I could offer the miniMac to someone. Maybe my mother for whom I just installed a CD burner in her crappy 600 mhz PC… Guess what, that Burner is just the same size as the Mini mac itself! And god, ain’t it so much uglier?
First off, I’m a Windows/Linux user. With that out front, I was disapointed with the hardware announced today. I’ve been saying to my Macolyte friends that I would buy a Mac if they ever became cheap enough. When the rumors started they said they would hold me to my promise. When I saw the Mac Junior, I was somewhat intriqued. When I went to the apple store and chose a cheap mini, an extra 256MB or ram, a keyboard and mouse, and apple care…it came to $800. Way too much for what you get. I shut down my browser and went to compusa and got a cheap emac, with double ram and apple care for $1000.
The mini seems to be still in line with Apple’s catering to the botique market. The emac is more in line with a prole such as myself.
Now I intend to use the emac for my work station and shift my Microsoft-based PC into being my entertainment system. With Suse on my Dell laptop for a complete computing experience:-)
dissapointed because it does not have Line-In and Mic connectors…There is always the iMic of course
Also, MIDI keyboards connect to the Mac through USB.
Is everyone so clueless as to not realize Apple made a machine that people through 3rd parties can add onto?
Sorry but I can get a 1GIG DIMM at NewEgg via Kingston for $211. That is reasonable.
I can get a 4port USB Hub with 3 Firewire ports for $32. That is reasonable.
I’ll pay the $100 for a SuperDrive upgrade.
I don’t give a rusty nut about Bluetooth since I don’t live on my phone and need to be in the other room with a bluetooth enabled keyboard, etc…
I’ll use these little mini slabs for a cheap render farm and distributed compiling farm. Xcode and Xgrid here I come.
How many musicians would think to use this system for recording from Mic? None. I’d go to Guitar Center and purchase my proper gear and then use these little guys to help distribute Final Cut Express from my mainsystem.
If I want to do heavy music business stuff that Final Cut Pro and Logic do I’ll buy an Xserve with Xserve Raid and run Xsan.
Anyone whining about this box has no intention ever to run OS X. There loss.
I enjoy Linux and OS X.
i already run a higher spec’d Mac primarily, but I’m thinking it’d be a sexy little project to pick up a couple of these and cluster ’em all together.
granted, I’m a horrible Apple/Jobs-geek which explains the ridiculous collection of Macs, Newtons and NeXT (and tangentially, Be) gear I keep around.
I’m so getting one. I’ve been wanting to play with OSX for a while now.
Five hundred dollars for a MacMini isn’t bad considering that you are probably getting one of the smallest and quietest personal computers made.
See, you’re qualifying it. “isn’t bad considering“. Anytime anybody defends Apple’s price/performance, they qualify it. The iMac is a steal considering it has GigE and wireless ethernet. The PowerMac is a great price, considering it has iLife, iTunes, etc. Rarely can a Mac machine stand by itself as a machine that has a lot of power for a low price.
Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with this. However, Apple folks wonder why nobody else buys Mac hardware. Just read Bascule’s post at the beginning of this thread! They never stop to think that many people don’t care about extras like GigE or iLife or a brushed aluminum exterior. There is nothing wrong with this either. Some people just care more about the “meat and potatos” of the computer, and Apple does not cater to these folks.
Make no mistake about it, for all intents and purposes, the Mac Mini does *not* invalidate complaints about Apple’s pricing. It’s an entry-level machine, but it’s a boutique entry-level machine. It shares a performance class with PCs costing $100 to $200 less (it has a slower CPU, but faster graphics). There will never be an end to the complaints about the price of Mac hardware, not until there are options for “meat and potatos” buyers across the price spectrum. Not just at the low end, but at the high-end too. That means being able to put together a bare-bones dual G5 machine at a price comparable to a cheapo dual-opteron. Indeed, the price had better be less than the comparable opteron, simply to offset the inherently high cost of switching platforms.
Frankly, I don’t think that will ever happen, and Apple really isn’t the company to make that happen. They make their living selling boutique computers, and there is no good reason for them to try the volume market. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Mac Mini really is a cool product, and I do think it’ll sell very well. However, it’s not a drastically new direction for the Apple product line, as people are claiming — it’s just another boutique product in a line of boutique products.
Nice looking machine! Great OS/PC package at a reasonable price. But, a little underspeced for my taste. The ComboDrive would have been nicer as a SuperDrive standard. DVD burners are inexpensive these days. The RAM would have been nicer at a minimum 512MB, right out of the box.
For the home user, this machine will probably be prefect though. Just take it home, hook up the monitor, keyboard and mouse and turn it on. That’s what most home users want.
For those complaining about the lack of line in/mic in etc., this machine wasn’t designed for serious audio work anyway. It’s too low spec for that anyway. And there are aftermarket USB options that will cover that area.
What the hell will you be doing with your 3 Ghz monster?
The question is, what are you *not* doing with your 1.25GHz G4? Basically, the only thing I can think of that they’d be good for is web-browsing, word-processing, e-mail, and maybe web-development. As soon as you start doing heavier work, gaming, development, etc, you start needing more. My PC is a 2GHz P4, and I can barely wait to upgrade. Everything runs too slowly. g++ run slowly, simulations at work run slowly, HL-2 runs slowly, Doom III doesn’t run at all, engineering apps like CATIA churn as soon as the detail is cranked up, and it takes a full 15 minutes for lame to encode a single CD!
The “what do you do with all that power” attitude always strikes me as comical. What do you do without the power? Just because you do so little with your computer, why do you assume others do as well?
Not just at the low end, but at the high-end too. That means being able to put together a bare-bones dual G5 machine at a price comparable to a cheapo dual-opteron. Indeed, the price had better be less than the comparable opteron, simply to offset the inherently high cost of switching platforms.
No, Apple does offer a value add most opteron vendors don’t. People buy PCs to do work. Work has a different meaning for different people. The software bundle with Apple producs is the differentiating factor here. Not everyone wants or needs a dual opteron workstation. Most people who buy PCs don’t even understand what a dual processor system means. IBMs progress in the PowerPC cpu could possibly make it possible to have a Mac out perform and cost less than and opteron box.
Frankly, I don’t think that will ever happen, and Apple really isn’t the company to make that happen. They make their living selling boutique computers, and there is no good reason for them to try the volume market. However, it’s not a drastically new direction for the Apple product line, as people are claiming — it’s just another boutique product in a line of boutique products.
It wil happen only if Apples volume picks up dramatically because of a high volume low cost unit like the iMac mini.
My PC is a 2GHz P4, and I can barely wait to upgrade. Everything runs too slowly. g++ run slowly, simulations at work run slowly, HL-2 runs slowly, Doom III doesn’t run at all, engineering apps like CATIA churn as soon as the detail is cranked up, and it takes a full 15 minutes for lame to encode a single CD!
Didn’t he ask about a 3Ghz P4? g++ runs slowly??? you are compiling code right. How long does it take g++ to compile a reasonably sized c++ file to generate object code. If you are building a huge project like openoffice and are actively working on it, I can understand it. But with a properly setup build environement a project should only need to be built once and incremental builds should be snappy. You can only change so many files at once evern on a large project.
The “what do you do with all that power” attitude always strikes me as comical. What do you do without the power? Just because you do so little with your computer, why do you assume others do as well?
Just because you need a more powerful computer doesn’t mean that everyone needs something similar. It goes both ways.
I find it funny that people who use much faster computers arleady for some pretty involved stuff are complaining that a $500 computer that fits in in the palm of their hand can’t do everything they ever want a computer for.
dude, look into using ccache, seriously
No, Apple does offer a value add most opteron vendors don’t.
Again with this value-added crap. You obviously didn’t understand my post. I’m not saying that Apple machines aren’t worth the money. I’m saying that to people who don’t value frivolities like GigE or iLife, Apple machines aren’t worth the money. People who complain about the pricing of Apple’s machines don’t care about Firewire 800 or iLife — they see a 1.25GHz machine for $500, vs a 1.5GHz machine for $300. For a *lot* of people, the “guts” count more than the “extras”. When the Mac Mini came out, people immediately started saying “okay, let’s see people complain about the pricing of the Macs now”. The thing is, the price complaints still hold. For people who see a computer as a CPU, GPU, some RAM, and a HDD, the Mac Mini is still a lot of money for what you get.
I’m not saying Apple has to cater to meat and potatos buyers. I doubt it makes business sense for them to, they’d get eaten up by Dell or HP. However, Mac users should understand that a lot of people *are* meat and potatos buyers, and stop acting so confused that people don’t buy Macs because they don’t think they are a good value.
[i]It wil happen only if Apples volume picks up dramatically because of a high volume low cost unit like the iMac mini.</>
The Mac Mini isn’t a high-volume unit. It’s low cost, but it’s also low-capability. The people buying these machines are looking at $300 eMachines or $200 MicroTels, not $500 Dells that can do a lot more. A lot of people will find no problem paying $500 for something that delivers $200 of capability, in return for Apple’s build-quality and ease of use. But that’ll still be a small fraction of the market.
For some people Apple can never do anything good.Even if Apple would give the minis away for the prize of a package of sigarettes they still like (have) to think there’s something hidden in the box.Must be some spyware in it,or some semtex remotely controlled.Most standard PC’s and case mods are bloody ugly.Most people allready own one PC or more.The prize is reasonable,only drawback i can think of:they should include that USB HUB keyboard.
You can only change so many files at once evern on a large project.
In modern C++ code, which uses a lot of templates, having to change header files becomes more common. Beyond that, the compiler has to parse every file included by every file that is compiled. For C code, parsing is pretty fast, but for C++ code, template expansion can slow down parsing a whole lot. Precompiled headers are a solution, but they’re pretty new in g++, and are rather fragile in every implementation I’ve tried. The worst part is that adding a new feature to an existng program usually necessitates a header change. That means a simple feature addition in KDE can require an hour rebuild of kdelibs. At work, on our codebase (that’s a hell of a lot smaller than kdelibs), adding a new feature can necessitate several 15 minute rebuilds over the course of the day. In extreme cases, compiling something like TAO (a CORBA ORB) can take 8 hours!
Just because you need a more powerful computer doesn’t mean that everyone needs something similar.
I didn’t say otherwise. My point is that the original poster asked “what do you do with your 3GHz beast?” That’s a silly question to ask, because there are lots of people for whom even a 3GHz computer isn’t nearly fast enough.
I don’t see how you can think the price is reasonable when a 1.5GHz Sempron machine can be had from Walmart for $200! When people complain about the price of Macs, they don’t mean the absolute price, but the price/performance ratio. Sure, this Mac has a low price. But it’s also has low performance. But it’s got good software, and looks nice and is easy to use. Hence by “boutique” label. It may be a nice product, but again, it’s not going to impress “meat and potato” buyers.
However, Mac users should understand that a lot of people *are* meat and potatos buyers, and stop acting so confused that people don’t buy Macs because they don’t think they are a good value.
You mean, so unlike meat-and-potato buyers who would never act as if their specs-for-buck world view is the only valid and rational one?
I think the confusion here goes both ways. A lot.
oh dag i’m getting one of these instead of that crappy chinese pc i was about to get. i got the ipod mini and this will make a perfect grown up brother.
Again with this value-added crap. You obviously didn’t understand my post. I’m not saying that Apple machines aren’t worth the money. People who complain about the pricing of Apple’s machines don’t care about Firewire 800 or iLife — they see a 1.25GHz machine for $500, vs a 1.5GHz machine for $300. For a *lot* of people, the “guts” count more than the “extras”. When the Mac Mini came out, people immediately started saying “okay, let’s see people complain about the pricing of the Macs now”. The thing is, the price complaints still hold. For people who see a computer as a CPU, GPU, some RAM, and a HDD, the Mac Mini is still a lot of money for what you get.
Again with this “guts” crap. For people who see a computer as a CPU. GPU and HDD will never understand Apple and the value thier machines possess.
I guess you accept that.
The Mac Mini isn’t a high-volume unit. It’s low cost, but it’s also low-capability. The people buying these machines are looking at $300 eMachines or $200 MicroTels, not $500 Dells that can do a lot more. A lot of people will find no problem paying $500 for something that delivers $200 of capability, in return for Apple’s build-quality and ease of use. But that’ll still be a small fraction of the market.
Not a high volume unit???? I am assuming that apple isn’t making much margin with the iMac mini. so they must be banking on it being high volume. Higer than thier other boxes, so high volume for them.
A lot of people, infact most people don’t know what a $200 worth of capabiliy in a computer means in Raw performance. So I doubt most people would care.
That’s a silly question to ask, because there are lots of people for whom even a 3GHz computer isn’t nearly fast enough.
Agreed.
I’ve always been an Apple user/buyer and I think Raynier is basically right (although I do think iLife will be of great use to some). This is something to be put on a desk at college or in a certain type of small office or at home and you don’t need much, but you want it to look sharp. Attach a printer, maybe headphones or speakers, your iPod Dock and that’s about it.
I do think there will be lots of 3rd party products coming out. As someone else mentioned, I think, it will be interesting to see if low end LCD displays start coming out with the Mini “look”, etc.
I don’t see how you can think the price is reasonable when a 1.5GHz Sempron machine can be had from Walmart for $200! When people complain about the price of Macs, they don’t mean the absolute price, but the price/performance ratio. Sure, this Mac has a low price. But it’s also has low performance. But it’s got good software, and looks nice and is easy to use. Hence by “boutique” label. It may be a nice product, but again, it’s not going to impress “meat and potato” buyers.
So better software now means a product is “boutique”. Or is a better rounded product a “boutique” one.
This the $199.98
128 MB DDR memory
20 GB hard drive
CD-ROM drive
Ethernet connection
Xandros Desktop Standard Edition v2.0 operating system
Floppy disk drive and Modem are not included
with those specs I hardly think that is a good value in a computer No modem??? 128 MB ram 20GB disk.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3380786&cat=4…
I don’t want to start a price comparison flamefest here. But your price performance ratio just went out the door.
Oh the upgraded one with a Massive 40Gb disk and a modem is $318.
I don’t think Xandros is in the same league as the software stack on the iMac mini. Don’t get me wrong it will suit some die hard linux fans out there. But for the average home user will want windows. And the price shoots upto $450 now. With windows you take a 20% cpu cycle hit for all the antivirus stuff and your price performance ratio goes out the door again.
Let’s face it people don’y buy a $400 pc for performance. Likewise they would’nt buy a $499 iMac for performance.
>>I don’t see how you can think the price is reasonable when a 1.5GHz Sempron machine can be had from Walmart for $200! When people complain about the price of Macs, they don’t mean the absolute price, but the price/performance ratio. Sure, this Mac has a low price. But it’s also has low performance. But it’s got good software, and looks nice and is easy to use. Hence by “boutique” label. It may be a nice product, but again, it’s not going to impress “meat and potato” buyers.
What a mediocre computer you get for $200 in wallmart:
AMD 1.5 GHz Sempron Vs G4 1.25 = mac mini wins
128 MB DDR Memory Vs 256 MB
20 GB Vs 40 GB
52x CD-ROM drive Vs no comments
Xandros Desktop Standard Edition v2.0 LOL VS OS X (out its league)
Stop talking trash. If you dont like, dont buy it. And again, 2.9 pounds, I need to open one and see how they did it.
Quote:
I find it funny that people who use much faster computers arleady for some pretty involved stuff are complaining that a $500 computer that fits in in the palm of their hand can’t do everything they ever want a computer for.
EXACTLY!!!
Rayiner Hashem loves to pick on Apple, no matter when, where, or why. His history on OSNews in this direction goes way back. Not worth listening to him.
This “meat and potatoes” buyer argument is a red herring. Right now, Apple’s computer line-up is dynamite (except for the eMac which needs a serious recharge). If you want something small, cheap, fun, for casual computing, the Mac mini is unbelievable. If you want an all-in-one that’s an excellent performer for a good price, the iMac G5 is great. I just bought one and I can’t believe how wonderful it is. The iBook G4 is the coolest little notebook around. The PowerBooks are getting slightly long in the tooth, but the upcoming updates should fix that for a while — until we get G5 PowerBooks, bwa ha ha. The PowerMac line-up is tremendous. From the single 1.8GHz for $1499 all the way to the top of the line, you can’t go wrong. I bought a Dual 2GHz when it was first released. This thing SCREAMS!!! Worth every single penny.
I just don’t see what the problem here is. Sure you might find something a little cheaper out there in PC land, certainly if you build your own machine, but when you buy a Mac, you are allowed access to the Apple world. “Apple World” gives you:
Mac OS X, and soon, Tiger — a mind-blowing OS that is like a futuristic Hollywood movie computer interface running on top of a world-class UNIX foundation
iLife/iSight/iChat
The coolest iPod experience
iWork
The Pro apps
And all kinds of amazing innovative technologies. Check out Apple.com right now. I dare ya. The things you can do with the new Keynote 2 and Pages are AMAZING. This makes MS Word look like a piece of dog doo.
And don’t forget the OS X app space. Little 1 or 2-man shareware developers out there are creating the coolest apps, because the underlying technologies in OS X make that easy. Look at what Delicious Monster was able to do for Delicious Library. The interface is gorgeous. Wait until Tiger comes out — the kind of software people can create with Spotlight, Core Image, the newest Cocoa updates, etc. will be out of this world.
I haven’t been this excited about Apple in ages. Last year’s SF keynote was a bit boring, and throughout 2004 most of the company’s focus seemed to be on the iPod. Now it’s different. This will be the year of the Mac. The Mac mini is only the beginning.
Apple is going from strength to strength, and I really really hope this translates to some modest marketshare increases by summer time. There’s no reason I can see why that couldn’t happen. It certainly wouldn’t be through any fault of Apple’s design team.
Cheers,
Jared
I am a Linux user. However, did u see the features in comming in Tiger. Got damn it. Mac developers are on drugs, heavy amount of drugs. (Let us say that is good because it is based on BSD. LOL). OS X is way ahead right now. Linux is a powerful OS, but OS X is taking the UI to another level.
Mac Mini is Cool!!!
Oh I forgot to mention that the microtel boxes use a shared memory video card 96MB hasn’t been enough for an OS since the late 90s.
iMac mini has about the same price performance ratio as the el-cheapo walmart variety PC, if not better. It also has a phenonmenal software stack making it a perfect low cost PC.
Let’s compare.
Barebone Mini
1.25Ghz PowerPC
256MB Ram
Combo Drive (DVD+CD-RW)
40GB hdd
Ethernet
32MB ATI 9200 video
$499
Compaq Presario SR1010Z
Sempron 3100+ (1.8Ghz)
256MB Ram
DVD/CD-RW Combo drive
40GB hdd
Ethernet
128MB Nvidia 5200
Keyboard+Mouse
$509.99
HP a810e
Sempron 3000+
256MB Ram
DVD Burner
80GB hdd
Ethernet
64MB Nvidia 9100
Keyboard+Mouse
$504.99
So it’s not really all that much more expensive. I would estimate about $70 less worth of hardware. (Mouse and keyboard about $20 and CPU about $50 worth.) But you do get a ton more software bundled.
Unfortunately, it’s software that I would never use as a developer. It would be nice if they offered a $450 version with Tiger and Xcode on it just for developers. I would use the extra $50 to beef up the ram as 256MB for software development is difficult. Slower CPU isn’t even close to as bad as memory swapping to disk.
I spent all day thinking the new Mac mini is called the iMac mini. Apologies,
It would be nice if they offered a $450 version with Tiger and Xcode on it just for developers. I would use the extra $50 to beef up the ram as 256MB for software development is difficult. Slower CPU isn’t even close to as bad as memory swapping to disk.
Are you basically saying you want it to be $50 less? Xcode has been a part of OS X for a while now. Panther comes with an xcode disk.
“Are you basically saying you want it to be $50 less? Xcode has been a part of OS X for a while now. Panther comes with an xcode disk.”
Yes. Less money for less software that I won’t use. iLife, iSync, iTunes, iWhatever, iDon’tNeed.
Just gimme Tiger and Xcode so I can write some code.
HP a810e
Sempron 3000+
256MB Ram
DVD Burner
80GB hdd
Ethernet
64MB Nvidia 9100
Keyboard+Mouse
$504.99
This retails for 614.98
I was arguing your point (the usual “I can build a faster PC for the same price”). At some point in computing history even basic tasks were slow (repaginating word processor docs). Now we’ve come to a point where the majority of basic tasks get done faster than most humans could handle and that on the lowest end pc you can find (new) today.
I won’t deny that you do need a lot of power and that a lot of people do. Actually I certainly won’t complain if I get more. But I don’t base everything on that, at least not for everyone else.
This is a site visited mostly by tech-heads (including me) so for many of us raw power is a concern. Either because we actually do need the raw power or because we just appreciate speed for itself. But we are a minority. The average Joe just knows that 3 is bigger than 1. And therefore when buying he absolutely wants the machine with “3” on it. It must be better.
Of course if you’re compiling huge projects it seems a pc is never fast enough. But you (and I) have to understand speed isn’t really such a matter nowadays. About two years ago I paid something like 3500$ for a Sony 16″ laptop. It had 1.6 Ghz and was top of the line. It allowed me to do the work I still do today (until it burned miserably and sony refused to take it in the guarantee.. but that’s another story…). The iBook here, the low end mac laptop, cost me less than fixing the sony would have (about 1000$ was what they asked, not including the 150 $ for the initial test). Yet it has similar speed. Plus a nice OS as a gift.
Basically what I do involves Java development with Eclipse ant Ant and J2ME, some web programming (php, mysql and so) and some photoshop artistry.
The only domain I actually see a difference in speed is in java, yes compiling takes more time on my iBook than on my 3 Ghz shuttle. The CPU is indeniably slower and. The HD also sucks compared to the SATA in the PC. But that doesn’t mean I can’t work. And the same is true for a lot of people.
Think of all the people who just have a PC at home for home task or all of those who are just “word or powerpoint”ers. Not everyone is a computer geek.
The sad thing is that in a lof of situations average people come to the average local guru-geek to ask for advice about what PC is good. And often said geek will only talk in terms of Gigaflops which in the end will cause the average Joe to keep counting Mhz like cows counting the passing trains.
Price it through the customized menu. If you don’t know how, I have a screenshot I can paste on the web for you.
And u guys forget the biggest flaw of alls this macs – THEY ARE NOT UPGRADEABLE. So i cannot start with entry level mac and upgrade it to something decent after some time. I cannot buy shitty cdrom and high end cpu + board. I dont have option , i dont have freedom of choice. The freedom on mac is just overpriced.
Wild quess maybe, but for me first reason seems to be reliability. 1/8″ jack is total nightmare as [frequently used] audio input, trust me. Also, such tight layout must cause very noisy signal if one put AD converter inside (remember, you also need hi- gain). And, guitar needs Hi-Z anyway (if you dont use preamp or something similar).
Remember, “digital audio” G4 missing line-in too!
USB audio/MIDI combos ala Mbox and Tascam122 is way to go (home studio setup in mind).
You are right. This PC is targed for the low end users. People that surf, write letters, simple stuff. Nobody said that is intended to web development or DNA sequence decoding. LOL. That is a place for the PowerMac. So maybe for some of us is not usefull, but I think I will recomended to many people that come to me for advice about what computer to buy. Plus, this helps to reduce windows share. Just like I have been doing with Linux.
Where would you like to crash today?
>>Price it through the customized menu. If you don’t know how, I have a screenshot I can paste on the web for you.
LOL. And how told you that I need your help. I can give you the same screenshot. I will not make a comment without researching. So jigga please, chilax.
Take the VAT off & it’s about 290 UKP but it is dissapointing in the same way that the Ireland i-Tunes store gets 99 euro downloads as per Europe. If Europe gets the new Mac for 499 Euros it will just reinforce how ripped off we are in the UK.
4 years ago I bought one of the Saint-Song PCs that is very similar to this (1Ghz PIII, 256mb RAM, DVD-drive). It cost about £700 then. I use it to carry an rsync backup of my main server with me. It weighs about the same as one of my smaller computing books (less than a kilo). I prefer to carry my 10 years of apps and data with me, rather than backup to tape. If the mini mac had existed 4 years ago I would have bought one of those instead. Indeed, I’m probably going to be buying one as a replacement for my cappucino.