This holiday season I was given some Christmas money, and I wanted to purchase a DVD burner for my G4 Apple Macintosh computer. When I purchased my computer, I was wise in buying a tower since they are upgradeable, right? WRONG!When I attempted to place an order for what Apple calls a “Superdrive” they refused, stating that they do not carry them in stock. After a very lengthy discussion, they sternly stated that the Apple store does not sell them!
I found this to be quite odd. I worked as a computer service technician for over 10 years. I serviced every make and model machine from Compaq, IBM, HP, Dell, and even a cheap no-name Korean brand that went out of business, and none of them refused to sell me an internal drive of any kind, EVER! I knew that the sales people might not have been properly trained, so I decided to speak with Apple’s service department. I thought that a certified Apple service technician would be able to help me, WRONG! They stated that they would not ship me a DVD drive because my machine was not originally purchased with one. I retorted by asking them, could I buy a second “Superdrive” if my machine came with one, then they said yes! However, I would have to order it through a certified Apple Service Provider. Apparently, Apple does not provide such a complicated, labor-intensive service. I called one store local to me, and he stated that it would cost me $450.00 of my Christmas money!!!! WHAT?!?!?
I called Apple back, and I was forced to wait on hold for over 3 hours. Finally I spoke with Apple’s customer relations department. This policy must be a mistake, as it is the worst possible experience I have ever had with a computer vendor. I asked them why Apple is the only computer company on the face of the planet that refuses to provide an upgrade part for their machines. They completely refused to give an adequate answer , then gave no explanation, and no recourse at all. They stated that I had to purchase a third party external drive, but they are not compatible with Apple’s iDVD software. They also stated that any third party internal drive was not guaranteed to work with iDVD. Is this application forever uselessly installed on my computer from the factory? I will probably purchase a third party drive, and figure out a workaround like I would for a Windows or Linux box, but if that is the case then why purchase a Macintosh to begin with?
I guess all of my technology friends were right when they warned me before purchasing my machine. They would tell me, “Macintosh computers can not be upgraded easily.”
When I discussed this with other people, they said that they would never have tried to buy a Superdrive from Apple, and that they would never try to buy an upgrade component from any computer manufacturer. I received comments in an e-mail such as this, “Why pay the extra money for nothing? So the fact that they
don’t offer the drive as anything but a replacement part doesn’t really
surprise me. However, the thing that really disgusts me is that they didn’t
tell you the truth when you called: that you can buy a Superdrive from
other vendors, and that although they don’t “support” other drives, a lot of
them work just fine, and work with iDVD, and the fact that they don’t “support” them means that if you can’t get it working properly, you’re not
entitled to use your free Apple tech support to try to get it working. So
that’s the truth, and they should have told you that. Shame on them for
giving you the runaround like they did.You can go to dozens of resellers’ web sites where they will sell you a
Superdrive. 30 seconds on google found me one for $179. Other World
Computing also has a bunch of iDVD compatible drives”.
My response is that they should support at least ONE updraded drive! That is why I called them in the first place. Even Microsoft offers a hardware compatibility list (HCL), for those devices that they support. If they only told me, “the following drives are supported”,and gave me a short list I would have stoppped calling them.
I even had someone say that “From what I understand, with my experience with DVD-+RW disks on OSX,
the component of OSX that deals with optical drives, simply, sucks.
That’s the reason they prefer to not support at all third party drives
or just in conjuction with iDVD: because their generic driver for them is not as reliable as it should, or as compatible.
On Apple’s own website I posed this question to others. Here is the most critical information that I found:
1) If you run into this problem, you can read owner reviews of different drives @ xlr8yourmac’s Drive Compatibility database. A database that Apple should provide, if they are not going to sell you a working drive.
2) After you find a working drive, then you might need PatchBurn to enable Finder & iApp support for most 3rd party drives. It’s better to stick with a vendor that Apple uses (support is to strong a word) such as Pioneer, NEC, LG, Plextor, or LaCie.
3) Since 3rd party DVD-/+R/RW burners can be had for under $75 online, it would make no sense to buy one from Apple for several hundred, even if you could.
If you really want a drive with Apple-firmware (usually limits drive performance) you can look on sites such as OtherWorldComputing; they often have such drives for sale.
They recomended a DVR-108 or ND-3500A.
All this aside, this “work-around” process should not be happening for machines that cost as much as $2000.00! I simply bought a DVR-107 out of frustration from the first website I found that claimed to have compatible drives. And I paid too much for it, to boot! I would not be upset by this if I were running Linux. I bought a Macintosh computer because I thought they always had certified drivers for a small subset of equipment. I was even willing to pay slightly more for that convenience. Now, the writing is on the wall. I bet, it will be an expensive pain to replace my video card. I will leave that for another day.
This is way offtopic, but I figured that while we are here in this very important topic of OS and hardware religion, we could all agree to donate at least a few dollars, euros etc. to the many organizations that are helping to bring aid and relief to survivors of the tragedy in Asia. Please do so.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.aidsites/
Agreed.
Look at Apple.com for links to give also.
(one of the few corporate web sites to acknowledge the horror of the earthquake)
”
Jeez, here’s another one!
Whats up with this forum today?
Spreading lies and half truths is rampant today!
”
Ummm….Safari 1.2 DOES require OS 10.3. Safari 1.0 requires 10.2. TO get the latest version of many Apple softwares, you need to upgrade often.
Could you claify instead of attack please?
Raptor, a car isn’t a computer. Doing upgrades for a car is not common and its quite a bit more complex then upgrading components on a computer.
Performance mods for cars are just as popular as upgrades for computers. The ratio of enthusiasts that do mod cars to the general population is the same as the pc market.
Just like 90+% of the car market consumers don’t mod cars the same 90+% of computer market consumers don’t upgrade thier PCs.
I’m quite amazed at the rudeness on this site. Look at your referrer headings Eugenia, I refuse to beleive OSnews has this bad trolls, I bet this was posted on an Apple site somewhere…
Apple support simply sucks. It’s the worst support I’ve ever seen.
I work on an university, where we just bought arount 70 Powermac G5 dual, and a couple of XServers. Pretty expensive bought, each machine was almost 5 thousand dollars (with monitor, and everything).
I also work for a university. We recently purchased 20 Xserve cluster nodes and supporting components (rack, switch, PDUs, etc) for a price I can’t disclose due to a university NDA. Let’s just say we got them for a fraction less than half of yours. You should’ve negotiated the purchase price on an order that big, and I’m surprised your university would let you make a sole source purchase without negotiating. Your purchasing department would be terrible.
Now you would imagine that, on a big purchase like this, Apple would at least take the time to help you with support for all those machines, right? WRONG!
They are just stupids. They sold us all those machines, and they couldn’t even tell us that the machines come with just 3 months of warranty, and thta a care pack costs only 200 bucks. Now we’re left with a bunch of machines without warranty, that can break at any minute. Just for the matter, from those 70 machines, 5 never worked, 3 broke during the 3 months warranty (and you have to take the fucking heavy machine back to their store to have it fixed), and 4 more are now broken.
Of our 20 Xserves, two have had trouble, one with RAM and one with its hard drive. All of this would’ve been covered by the 90 day warranty, but we had the forethought to negotiate 3 years of AppleCare support into our deal with Apple.
Either you are a lying troll, or you should not have PO authority. You have clearly failed to negotiate for your needs. If your purchasing agent oversaw a disaster like that at my university, he would be fired.
To expect everything to work with everything and for a company to point you to competing products is not always reasonable. Some will have the courtesy to show you who can help you when they can’t, but it’s no obligation of theirs. No OTHER computer company will support third-party equipment, either.
I bought a Macintosh computer because I thought they always had certified drivers for a small subset of equipment. Yeah. That’s about how it works, however, you appear to upset about something else. You say that you accept that, but then go whine about not every drive works with your Mac.
They completely refused to give an adequate answer, then gave no explanation, and no recourse at all. They stated that I had to purchase a third party external drive, but they are not compatible with Apple’s iDVD software. They also stated that any third party internal drive was not guaranteed to work with iDVD.
followed shortly by:
[T]hey didn’t tell [me] the truth when you called: that you can buy a Superdrive from other vendors, and that although they don’t “support” other drives, a lot of them work just fine, and work with iDVD, and the fact that they don’t “support” them means that if you can’t get it working properly…”
OK, dude, what do you want? They told you that they were not guaranteed to work with iDVD. DUH! They NEVER EVER said that you were screwed unless you got a SuperDrive. It’s clear to me from your account that it is a failure on your part to properly interpret what you were told, and/or to ask the right questions.
I even had someone say that “From what I understand, with my experience with DVD-+RW disks on OSX, the component of OSX that deals with optical drives, simply, sucks. That’s the reason they prefer to not support at all third party drives or just in conjunction with iDVD: because their generic driver for them is not as reliable as it should, or as compatible.
So are you having problems with your setup as it currently stands, or are you just looking for a pound of flesh by attacking something that does not have any bearing upon YOU. If you wish to address the problem of poor optical drive support, please bring it up where it would be relevant. (Incidentally, poor optical drive support was a problem that has followed Apple from the inception of optical support in the classic MacOS, so I would not necessarily doubt the assertion that MacOS X has poor optical drive support.)
I have had good luck with my Mac hardware purchases, not to mention Apple support. Laptop problems, twice, have I had, and both times within 4 days I got my iBook back from Applecare. I have had the savvy to know beforehand that in order to get what I want out of my Mac, I must dig a tiny bit more to find the 3rd-party products I want. I don’t have 100 million vendors selling to me at once like I do in Windows.
Yeah… As my record of posts at OSNews will indicate, http://www.google.com/search?q=site:osnews.com+%22Charles+(IP:+…)%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 I am a Mac guy, but it’s not an irrational love. If there is a problem with Apple, state it. If YOU’RE the problem, oh well.
Usually I try to be conciliatory in internet discussions, but this article is worthless.
Mod this article -1: Troll.
If you’re attempting a literary reference it’s slings and arrows.
I think Apple makes the drives and such for their tiny marketshare only (except some things like the iPod).
They make money on selling upgrades and replacements to the customers of buying their Macs.
I really don’t think Apple even wants you to buy any part from anyone else other than from Apple.. (except maybe the RAM & Hard Drive)
They want to squeeze the money of you like every other company and like how I would do if I could do it. MacOS X works only on Macs.. MacOS X only works with this hardware.. etc. .etc..
I would personally sell a version of Mac OS X to compete with windows as i really love it, it’s a really great OS. Their marketshare keeps dropping and dropping.. I think they need some new exciting products and stop advertising so much on the iPod.
go to Other World Computing. purchase a Pioneer DVD drive. install. download “PatchBurn”. install. buy a copy of Toast Titanium 6. install.
this should solve your problem. the drives at OWC are Apple drives and should work just fine. all of the above need not be done all at once if cashflow is a problem. but buying parts/drives/memory from your computer company is a very expensive way to do upgrades.
hopefully this should put you on the path to upgrade satisfaction.
please, beware the trolls.
>>You should’ve negotiated the purchase price on an order
>>that big, and I’m surprised your university would let you
>>make a sole source purchase without negotiating. Your
>>purchasing department would be terrible.
As I said before, the university bought the computers. I work at the TI department but I’m not the one that makes the purchases. The price was negotiated, and we got a good deal after all; the final price of the machines, including software, and the display, would be around 7500 dollars.
Anyway, I’m not discussing the prices of the machines. The problem is that Apple doesn’t have any care about its customers…
Try make a big purchase like that from Dell.. It’s amazing how they try to do everything to give you the best support possible. Same thing with IBM. We have 4-year-old servers from IBM, that are not even on warranty anymore, but they give same-day service, just to keep the client…
Apple’s support simply suck.
Apple don’t make drives. They buy them and install them in their machines, just like a PC manufacturer does.
Apple don’t make money selling upgrades. The make it on new machines.
Mac OS X runs only on Macs. Think about the name for a moment. *Mac* OS X. Not *x86* OS X. And I’m yet to see anything to show that there would be a profit in releasing OS X for x86. I’ve seen a lot of people who say they’d want it, but I’ve also seen a large cross-section of those using pirated WinXP. Apple will never sell a copy to them, and much of the Windows world just don’t care enough to want OS X on their x86 box.
The latest version of Safari does require OS X 10.3, but if you don’t want 10.3, you can run an older version of Safari. You can’t have this both ways – if you want the latest software, you have to have the OS to support it. The OS upgrades don’t exist just to make money. They actually add many new features and the point ones (10.1, 10.2, 10.4 and soon 10.4) include substantial increases to APIs that developers can use.
If the developers stuck to the older APIs, you could run with 10.1 or 10.2, but then you wouldn’t have the features of later OS X releases.
What do people want? A single OS release that doesn’t change for 5-10 years, or one that’s improving every year and bringing new features for developers to take advantage of?
We *could* all just go back to Lynx.
I absolutely can’t stand talk of an Apple tax, or pointless whining about how you *have* to pay every year, as though Apple heavies show up at your home is you don’t upgrade in a timely fashion. It’s a choice, and there are pros and cons with both upgrading and staying on a prior OS version.
This thread wasn’t really worth the space. The author may not have made the best choices, but it’s a little unfair for him to suffer the slings and arrows of (such) outrageous criticism. But the FUD in this thread is stunning in its breadth and depth.
Still… at least no-one mentioned the one-button mouse… (oh no! runs away…)
The five DOAs would have been replaced immediately. The three that broke during the three months *support period* would have been either repaired or replaced. The four more that have since broken will be covered by the *one year warranty*.
The support would be a lot better if your Uni purchased on-site AppleCare, instead of cutting costs in that regard.
And do you have any report on why they’re breaking? I’ve seen Macs in many environments, and that many failing in such a short time is remarkable in my experience. Is there a common thread with them?
And no, Apple’s support doesn’t suck. I disagree with your opinion, as my experience is very different. Let’s all make sweeping statements today!
when will you people just stop whining and do a little research before you buy. jeeze.
“I would personally sell a version of Mac OS X to compete with windows as i really love it, it’s a really great OS. Their marketshare keeps dropping and dropping.. I think they need some new exciting products and stop advertising so much on the iPod.”
As you pointed out their market share for the Macs keeps shrinking, so on the contrary the iPods Apple should embrace more agrassively and dump the Mac Desktops!
Either Apple makes the desktop mainstream, following iPod example, or they should dump the Desktop line and concentrate on the iPods and other similar consumer appliances. In fact, Apple is currently experiencing internal pressure from investors to put more behind the iPods and shape up the Mac division or lose it. Money talks.
They are about to dumb the eMacs which are an embarassment, so things are shaping up. Good changes are coming for Apple, they will finally leave behind the cult mentality and sink their teeth into real mainstream profits. Go Apple go!
The drive I currently use [which is an aftermarket] is the UJ-825S dvd-r/+r drive [aka superdrive].
used it with patchburn and it works perfectly with everything I have put in it.
dvd-r
dvd+r
cd-r
cd-rw
etc. etc.
Must be a really slow day for OS News to be publishing some random guy’s complaint letter.
What’s next? Break-up stories? Dear John letters?
This is pretty low rent, OS “News”
117 inane comments (118 now) a new low?
escoz’s comment might have been interesting, except that all Macs come with a one-year warranty. You’d think a lying troll would at least check apple.com first.
As for the rest of the rant, look at the first comment. Eugenia was upset about her Firewire CDR, and didn’t seem to realize that Firewire is a transfer mechanism, not a CD burning protocol. She wanted to rant about it, so we get this “exclusive” article. Yay!
Well, there are 148 post total, 29 moded down. Roughly 20% of post were moded down.
The reason to come here is to have a discussion about topics. I say this shows that there is a lot of interest in Apple. And OsNEws is an excellent forum!
Apple is in a crucial transition time. And thinks are looking great for preliminary data on iPod sales this holiday season. I think with such numbers Apple will have to either put the desktop on the back burner or make it mainstream.
Whether you agree or not with Apple they do have the momentum now, lets hope they make the best decision. Go Apple go!
I said it once, and I’ll say it again: Pioneer DVR-A07/107/A08/108.
END OF STORY, GOOD NIGHT.
your exactly right. But did you not notice that when they started advertising the iPod instead of the Macs.. the marketshare of the macs dropped more rapidly than usual?
I hope that internal pressure does not push apple into digital devices instead of less concentration of the Macs. They need to do some work on their mac line up obviously.
Joe,
The first thing we did was check with Apple. After the three months period, to have support you have to take the machine to an apple store, what is unaceptable for a business.
What’s more ridiculous is that 2 machines had problems with the Fans. After 3-4 minutes turned on, the fans were at full speed. We spent the time (and money) to take the machines to the apple store, to realize that the problem was Apple’s fault. Those two machines didn’t have the correct updates (or “something” like balancing – I’m not sure what exactly it was) that it was supposed to have, and like all other ones had. We have to spend money to send somebody to fix an Apple error..
Also, buying support for each single problem is not acceptable, even more when you have 70 machines. And, after all, the lack of willing from Apple to help us get those Apple cares is what pisses me the most.
Well, whatever… I’m leaving now. Good night.
“your exactly right. But did you not notice that when they started advertising the iPod instead of the Macs.. the marketshare of the macs dropped more rapidly than usual?”
That is exactly why there is pressure, because the iPod have broken into mainstream, whereas the Macs have not. Apple’s success with the iPods is unparallel in the company’s history.
I think that they can also make the Mac’s mainstream, but changes are needed badly. For one, the snob attitude about “we are just better” does not cut it anymore, they need to deliver rather than self pontificate. They can do it. They already suceded with the iPods. The current mac user base is not a good goal, stagnate, growing beyond it is needed, and that also means culture change in Cupertino. Mark my words the “do or die Mac desktop” attitude is going away and soon. IBM is also interested in putting the WIntel Empire in check. Now wiht AMD eating the candy from Intel, is a great opportunity for IBM to make the PPC chip mainstream. Apple is also seeing the light with the iPods. Regardless of what Steve thinks Apple is going mainstream. Even Steve is seeing the light, the green lighte $$$. Go Apple go!
Either way we all win. 🙂
Cheers.
” After the three months period, to have support you have to take the machine to an apple store, what is unaceptable for a business. ….We spent the time (and money) to take the machines to the apple store, to realize that the problem was Apple’s fault.”
Hmmm, as a lone customer, Apple ships me a box, I put the mac in, ship it to Apple, at their expense, and they fix it.
You may in fact… and people correct me if I am outa line here, work in the worst IT department I have ever heard of.
The vendor didn’t tell us… wow. Ever heard of due diligence?
For an IT department, especially a college IT dept to not do some research is pretty sad. What is worse is to cry about the vendor not supplying you with information you should be finding before making the purchase. Finally, it sounds like you paid full cost for all those machines which is also odd since Apple offers price breaks for institutions, especially on large purchases and that includes the cost of Applecare.
EDMC recently purchased 100 G5 computers for each of the Art Institutes. All included Applecare and were installed without a hitch (at least at our location).
[i]By Anonymous (IP: —.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) – Posted on 2004-12-30 17:42:28
I’m a Windows and Linux user that was about to purchase my first Mac in 2005.
After reading this, the chances I’ll buy a Mac–even if they introduce one dirt cheap–went down by 50%. [i]
Thanks for the several troll posts like this.
If THIS article changed your mind, you NEVER really wanted to buy a Mac in the first place…
I’m very sorry you had this experience. However you yourself said you were warned, so maybe you got what you asked for..
This in not meant to be a mean or ugly statement, just to point out the value in reading reviews,asking and listing to people who have tried it before.
I also work for a major college IT department. This guy makes his department sound like joke. At our school we have over 300 macs and 50 PC. We have 3 guys who go nuts patching and updating windows everyday. We have about 7 guys working with the macs and the only thing they do is around and hang out. We never have problem with our macs expect old crt dying and paper jams in printers which having nothing to do with apple. In my two years of working there we’ve never had a problem with apple shipments. And the 1 or 2 DOE were replace same week. I don’t understand what else do you expect from your computer supplier. You shouldn’t have an IT job if you need apple to hold your hand to get you through the day.
I know how you fee. I just bought a $75 Pioneer A08 drive for my $400 Windoze box but my $2100 PowerMac still has the factory drive.
Amazing!! Your IT department goes nuts patching all the windows machines…have they ever heard of SMS, or the free SUS, and GPOs? I update 800 windows machines by simply clicking the “approve update” button, with SUS. Are you IT people contractors (or where they in a previous life)? If not, they should think about it, because the sound like they like time consuming, repitious work.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/idvdenabler.html
Quote: “According to Larry O’Connor, President of OWC, Apple said that the software enabler was a violation of the company’s intellectual property rights and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. He also says that Apple saw it as promoting the piracy of iDVD.”
And this my friends, is why software patents are bad. That said, Apple obviously didn’t tell them that reverse engineering for reasonable compability reasons is legal under the DMCA did they? Of course a court would have to decide if it was reasonable or not, but how could a court not decide it being reasonable, when Apple does not make available upgrades to their consumers? And has the gall to discourage 3rd party manufacturers from making hardware/software to integrate it with the Apple Mac that the customer paid his/her hard earned money for?
I’ve said it before, Apple are a bunch of litiguous bastards – i’ve never seen a more litiguous company, they’re worse than Microsoft or SCO! As a company, Apple leaves a LOT to be desired, i’m an ex contractor that worked for Apple and let’s just say it’s the worst company that i’ve worked for in nearly 20 years of being in the workforce.
Dave
Quote: “We have about 7 guys working with the macs and the only thing they do is around and hang out. ”
Then maybe they should cut down on their staff since you’re not doing anything?
Quote: “We have 3 guys who go nuts patching and updating windows everyday.”
Then get rid of Microsoft Windows and run Linux or BSD. Wine will run most of the stuff that you might need that’s Windows orientated. If you persist on using Microsoft Windows and all its flaws and security issues then as a corporation you deserve what you get – trouble.
The main point of this article on osnews.com was the severe lack of customer service and customer service that Apple provides to its customers. Refusing to sell a spare part to a customer and then threatening them that installing a 3rd party product will void their warranty or not be supported is downright rude, and an attempt to extort more money by forced upgrades. Some customers are dumb and would sell their old Mac without a superdrive and purchase a new unit with one, but most people are not dumb.
All of this is a form of monopolisation, and in this respect Apple isn’t much better than the big bad Microsoft. Don’t believe me? Quicktime on Linux or BSD anyone? iPods on Linux or BSD anyone? I like iPods but i’m certainly not going to buy or recommend one until Apple starts behaving itself and providing proper and reasonable support. Consumer bodies are too scared of attacking large companies like Microsoft or Apple for a variety of reasons.
I’m currently fighting LG Electronics Australia for a similar reason – not being able to update the firmware on my new LG 4160b dvd burner drive unless i’m running Microsoft Windows. I still think governmental intervention on what systems a software developer/hardware developer must support is a fair thing. If you don’t want to support Windows/Linux/BSD/Mac with your software/hardware then you shouldn’t be selling it, period. It sounds extremist but it’s a nice way of ensuring proper support for customers who part with their hard earned money.
Dave
I have one. Love it. Wouldn’t go back.
If you were honestly thinking about buying one and where *shocked* about hearing the difficulties of upgrading it, then you don’t know anything about Apple.
You buy the package. That’s WHY it works so well. If you want to upgrade, you *must* do your research. Things like specific Apple firmware are common. There is a smaller pool of products to work from.
That’s just the way it is. Like I said, it’s why it works so well. Welcome to Apple.
Side-note: My experience with trying to find hardware that *works* under Linux was a NIGHTMARE… online databases were a help, but you’re on your own. I never could get my dvd+rw to work. Let alone *find* an app that would allow me to fill a disc to past 1 gig.
I have used a number of 3rd party drives and devices in my Macs. I do not see how you would have had trouble.
“You buy the package. That’s WHY it works so well. If you want to upgrade, you *must* do your research. Things like specific Apple firmware are common. There is a smaller pool of products to work from.”
Yes that’s all fair enough, and exactly how Apple work, but that isn’t a good reason not to sell the guy an Apple drive. Frankly there isn’t anything special at all in their so-called Superdrives, and no reason why they shouldn’t be able to be upgraded – if they sold one, I bet it’d be as simple as pulling the old one out and plugging the new one in.
“Side-note: My experience with trying to find hardware that *works* under Linux was a NIGHTMARE… online databases were a help, but you’re on your own. I never could get my dvd+rw to work. Let alone *find* an app that would allow me to fill a disc to past 1 gig.”
Side note 2: I haven’t tried a DVD-RW but so far Linux has handled everything I’ve thrown at it – nVidia card (don’t and won’t own an ATi), sound card/chipset, weird 1394 docking station, hell it supports my touchpad better than the official drivers under Windows.
”
“Side-note: My experience with trying to find hardware that *works* under Linux was a NIGHTMARE… online databases were a help, but you’re on your own. I never could get my dvd+rw to work. Let alone *find* an app that would allow me to fill a disc to past 1 gig.”
”
I have to agree with Archangel, my exp. with Linux and hardware has been spotless. I do use ATI however
I had trouble wiht my iuntellimouse not using all 5 buttons (back and forward) but imwheel solves that…
“Quote: “We have 3 guys who go nuts patching and updating windows everyday.”
Then get rid of Microsoft Windows and run Linux or BSD. Wine will run most of the stuff that you might need that’s Windows orientated. If you persist on using Microsoft Windows and all its flaws and security issues then as a corporation you deserve what you get – trouble.”
I agree. Don’t go bitching if Windows has to be updated often – they should bloody know that by now. Swap them out for BSD and they’re running much the same OS as the core of the Mac’s.
Does anyone else find 10 techs for 350 PC’s a bit silly? From what I’ve heard from a couple of friends in similar positions, they’re lucky to get two or three.
“I’m currently fighting LG Electronics Australia for a similar reason – not being able to update the firmware on my new LG 4160b dvd burner drive unless i’m running Microsoft Windows. I still think governmental intervention on what systems a software developer/hardware developer must support is a fair thing. If you don’t want to support Windows/Linux/BSD/Mac with your software/hardware then you shouldn’t be selling it, period. It sounds extremist but it’s a nice way of ensuring proper support for customers who part with their hard earned money.”
Agreed again – I’m not really in favour of governmental intervention, but forcing consumers to use Windows isn’t right.
They’re basically saying (to use you as an example) that if you want to flash your burner you’re going to have to pay Microsoft hundreds of dollars for the privilege, AND agree to their license agreement – which will prevent you from getting a refund once you’ve flashed the burner, or even using the OS on another computer.
Imagine Ford saying that they won’t accept any liability for their cars problems if they’re not on a motorway, because otherwise they can’t guarantee the flatness of the road. Sony refusing to guarantee their videotapes in any other brand of VCR.
It strikes me that the computer industry (MS being one of the worst candidates) are getting away with murder in this regard, and it’s about time someone pulled them up a bit.
“I have to agree with Archangel, my exp. with Linux and hardware has been spotless. I do use ATI however
”
Impressive 🙂
“I had trouble wiht my iuntellimouse not using all 5 buttons (back and forward) but imwheel solves that…”
I’m using a MX700, which is again flawless. It’s got 8 buttons, and all are supported and fully mappable using xbindkeys (the thumb buttons work in Firefox but little else without, and the top ones scroll but can’t be mapped). Windows only manages 7 buttons, the 3rd party drivers work for the last one but won’t install on “unsupported” versions of Windows.
I wouldn’t say support under Linux is flawless, but it’s hardly nightmarish for the most part. The beauty of it is when something goes wrong it’s generally fixable, unlike some other OS’s I could mention 🙂
Best stop here, this is pretty far OT 😉
i’m not sure what this big stink is about.
i wanted a dual layer burner for my powermac, so what did i do? went to newegg.com, bought a dvr-108, put it in, and ran patchburn. wasn’t hard at all.
i’m also using a sata raid5 card for an extra 3 hard drives in my powermac. i plan on upgrading the video card (which apple sells on their website) and installing an alchemytv tuner.
macs upgrade just fine, but much like linux you have to know the right hardware and process. though it is a bit easier
I’m going to be kind and suggest that the author of this article not write about anything Mac related. They clearly do not have any idea what they are doing.
Its very simple to find out what drive will work in your particular Mac. In my MDD I did a lookup on xlr8yourmac and it is well know that Apple uses Pioneer, LiteOn and Toshiba drives. I purchased a drive from NewEgg and I was ready to go.
Or find a system with a SuperDrive and look it up in the System Profiler as to what kind of drive it is.
Its nothing mysterious, esoteric, strange, insurmountable or technical to upgrade an optical drive in a Mac. It just takes using your brain.
P.S. No one forces you to stay on the phone for three hours. In a situation like that you have a choice. Apple didn’t have a gun to your head.
>I know how you fee. I just bought a $75 Pioneer A08 drive for my $400 >Windoze box but my $2100 PowerMac still has the factory drive.
OK, and the same drive works in your Power Mac. What’s your point?
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/1775
“SuperDrive
A Macintosh® floppy drive that can access several different disks (e.g., 400kB, 800kB, and 1.4 MB, and PC disks).”
The Apple fans on this website have done a superb job of presenting themselves in the worst possible light. So many of the posts here are rude, aggressive and juvenile. Anyone reading these posts will come away with one crystal-clear impression – that Apple fans are the most rabid and zealous of all computer users and have a unflinching, irrational loyalty to Apple that simply defies explanation.
Mac fans can stop worrying about imaginary PC Trolls trying to sully the name of Apple, they do a good enough job of the task themselves.
Amen
I disagree. As the comments unfolded here, what surprised me was that there seemed to be an attempt made by someone to mod down every comment that disagreed with the author.
For example, there is a fairly early post by Father Baker, that to me seemed to state quite simply why he disagreed that Apple should support non-standard hardware. I noticed that the comment was ‘pending review’. Strange.
That comment survived, but others didn’t. (The whole mod thing seems quite arbitrary. It’s not a simple question of inappropriate language or personal attack. It often seems strangely political somehow).
Regardless, don’t try to spin whole groups of people as unreasonable because of select comments you don’t like. I think the basic gist of this thread is that Apple consumers are not upset that Apple doesn’t support aftermarket hardware. ‘Not doing it yourself’ has always been seen as one of the features of the Mac community, not one of it’s shortcomings.
Many people here have a more DIY attitude about their machines. Windows and Linux users often build from components. Some seem to be building this story into some kind of outrage. (Those people should bear in mind that they are still dependent on others to provide them with drivers for their hardware to work. Not exactly DIY if you see what I mean. You have no choice but to stick with the OS that supports the hardware you buy, or buy hardware that fits your OS.)
To say Apple fans are worse than Linux or Microsoft fans is nonsense. By definition, a fan is a fanatic. Don’t expect reasoned discourse.
The vast majority of Mac users are completely unaware this web site even exists, because to them the computer is just a cool tool that works pretty well with no set up or configuration by them. The details of how it works are unimportant to them. They get support from Apple for the product they bought, and that’s all they need.
I never said that the PC guys go to each machine. Everything is done remotely from the servers. The PC team is has lot more to worry about.
Yes that’s all fair enough, and exactly how Apple work, but that isn’t a good reason not to sell the guy an Apple drive. Frankly there isn’t anything special at all in their so-called Superdrives, and no reason why they shouldn’t be able to be upgraded – if they sold one, I bet it’d be as simple as pulling the old one out and plugging the new one in.
Ask Dell/HP/IBM/[any PC vendor] to sell you an upgrade part, they’ll do the same.
Side note: Upgrade part is different from spare part, I read someone else comment that Apple refuse to sell spare part. No, Apple sells them to authorized repairman. Apple just don’t expect the end user to do the repair to the Mac package themselves.
PC (Windows, Linux & BSD inclusive) users always take the culture they had on the PC platform to the Mac. Well, they never notice that it is another society with another completely different culture.
Just like Japanese will think a western who step on their Tatami to be rude, but you’ll never know that. You’re just breaking the rule of the specific culture.
Apple fans are faithful to Apple, no one knows why.
I’m an Apple fan too.
BTW, while my video, sound, lan, usb and fw board was nicely recognized by the Linux kernel, I can never get my TV capture card and web cam work on it.
This is a non-issue. Go to:
http://www.powerbook1.com/dvdr8xdt-d.html and get a bloody drive for $99.
I went to Toyota to get a part for my van – cost? $2100 plus taxes.
On the net? $70. Amazing but true.
Huge companies really love to run a kind of diy parts dept – its SO profitable – not.
Apple buy the parts they use from places like Panasonic, etc.. Guess what? So can you.
But this is just an Apple whine, isnt it? Why does Apple get people so worked up?
Is it because they go their own way and dont follow the herd?
Are you a herd person?
Can you say ‘individual responsibility’? No? Oh, well then I have a house run by the government made of cotton wool for you. Its right next door to the tax office, the schools, the hospital, the Tsnunami warning system etc.
“I disagree. As the comments unfolded here, what surprised me was that there seemed to be an attempt made by someone to mod down every comment that disagreed with the author.
For example, there is a fairly early post by Father Baker, that to me seemed to state quite simply why he disagreed that Apple should support non-standard hardware. I noticed that the comment was ‘pending review’. Strange.”
So you can disagree with the author, that’s ok. He wrote of his experience, and your may very well be totally different with Apple costumer service.
However, I would like to point out that is ok for someone, not to like Apple, or to think that Apple has done something wrong. That happens to every major company in the world. What I find surprising is the conspiracy theory that you put forth.
Friends, Apple make mistakes, is a fallible corporation make of people that can err just like you and me. Lets not spun conspiracy theories and the like. Not admittiding that a company can do wrong seem unreasonable.
Anyway, I do not agree completly with the article, but I can see that he has a point. The world is not just black and white, it is also full of greys.
As for OsNews, I think they are quite balanced, they have both positive and negative articles for all major Oses. I think they are doing a grand job!
Cheers for the coming New Year!
Quote: “i’m not sure what this big stink is about.
i wanted a dual layer burner for my powermac, so what did i do? went to newegg.com, bought a dvr-108, put it in, and ran patchburn. wasn’t hard at all.”
It’s called decent and proper customer service, is that really too hard for you to understand and comprehend? You’ve bought a product and you have a right to expect a certain level of support. Being told “sorry sir we don’t sell dvd burners for your machine, they only ship with brand new computers that we sell” is damn right rude.
As archangel has pointed out, the computer industry is the worst for the respect of rights of its users and consumers. EVERY single other area of manufacturer offers a warranty. It’s mostly unpoliced, and manufacturers of both hardware and software run riot and do exactly what they want, without care for their customers who purchase the products.
Imagine if Ford said to you, “sorry we only support our cards when they’re in your driveway, immobile, with no one seated in them and fully locked up”. There’d be an uproar and we’d have consumer bodies the world wide taking action. This is the sort of behaviour that computer software and hardware manufacturers have and they get away with it.
Dave
That is the question.
Whether ’tis nobler to leave the typo online and suffer
the slings (and swings) and arrows of outrageous articles
or to take up arms against a sea of reasons,
And by fixing typos, end them? To correct: to republish;
No more.
Apple is missing out on making some money this way although after the warranty period is over it may be best to get the repairs or upgrade done through a third party (I don’t take my car to the dealer once it is past its warranty period). When I upgraded my QuickSilver 733 to a DVD burner, I did an internet search and finally bought the drive from OWC. It is working like a charm after I installed it according to their instructions.
If Apple were to provide this service at slightly higher costs than their competitors, many would opt going this way just to be assured of a perceived higher quality-whether true or not.
Happy New Year Y’all!
Just thought I would mention this in case it helps someone out there. I needed a newer DVD ROM drive in my G5 Sawtooth that would play both +R and -R. The origional drive was too old to play all the newer formats. I tried this 16x Lite-On drive from my P4 Compaq Persario and it would work as a CD drive but the Iapps especially IDVD would not work. I then tried a brand new Sony 16X Black DVD ROM from New Egg and it works 100% with all apps. Though that might help someone who was seeking a new DVD ROM for their Macs that works 100% with OSX.
It does bother me sometimes that all drives just won’t plug in and work but there are many out there that will work with OSX and all Applications. There is a database on http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ that tells what drives will work with OSX. I saw the Sony listed there so popped it in and it works great.
That should have been G4 Sawtooth! Tired I guess!
I think people fail to understand that when they chose to buy a mac the are purchasing a proprietary device. its like purchasing a VCR or a stereo. “There are no user servicable parts inside” It is a disposable device and you are required to purchase a new one when the current one no longer suits your needs. I dont think Apple even advertizes their wares as “upgradeable” So using PC mentality when purchasing a MAC is, shall we say, ignorant. If you want that flexibility then you have you computer custom built where they will give you support on a much wider variety of components than companies such as ApPLe or Dull.
“slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune”
Not swings. Think David vs Goliath.
Yeah, that kind.
only 133 hits for “swings and arrows” on Yahoo compared with 118,000 for “slings and arrows.” however, the former is used in reference to golf clubs.
Since you say that there are no servicable parts inside a Mac indicates that you have never worked with a Mac. In addition, Macs are PC’s so you need to look at the meaning of PC. It means ‘Personal Computer’ and a Macintosh is that. Maybe you meant that the Mac is not an x86 platform.
Contrary to what many people think, the Mac is upgradable. You can upgrade the processor. It has a PCI bus and many PCI bus compatible devices work on it (video cards, wireless cards, etc.) but not all. Sometimes there are no good software drivers for these devices. However, looking for drivers is not unique to the Mac computer. One has the same problem with any platform.
I have had several knowledgeable friends that lost lots of sleep trying to get their not-purchased-from-the-manufacturer DVD burner to work on an x86 platform. Neither the DVD provider nor the computer manufacturer had a clue on how to solve the problem. Maybe they admitted ignorance since no drivers had been written and they did not want to write the drivers.
If you wish to say that a ‘put-it-together-from-parts’ is not possible for the Macintosh I would agree with you. If you mean that you wish to upgrade the motherboard of a Mac then it is not upgradeable. But peripheral devices and cards can be used to upgrade a Macintosh.
So using PC mentality when purchasing a MAC is, shall we say, ignorant. If you want that flexibility then you have you computer custom built where they will give you support on a much wider variety of components than companies such as ApPLe or Dull.
CD/DVD drives just have to work inmediedly after the initial install.I’m quite sure i can plugin whatever drive they sell these days and i assure you they will run on my Debian box.Elementary peripherals just have to work out of the box.I will never buy an Mac ,not even the headless one if i can’t switch the drives as easily when on Linux.However i doubt that MacOsX is bound to a very limited set of elementary peripherals such as graphics/sound-cards and cd/dvd-rom drives.Personally the hyped i-pod is a lesser concern,the’re better or equivalent storage players with the same capacity or more.In fact you don’t have to buy an Mac in order to load some music on your i-pod.Gtkpod runs on pratically every Linux box and friends.Love to finally get my hands on MacOsX instead.
is that apple makes idvd, a app that only works with a small group of burners (the ones they ship with their computers) and then they refuse to sell those burners outside of a whole system. yes one can allways pick up third party burners and apps but then what is the value of the apple brand name? they are in fact no better then dell: a collection of stock hardware, rebranded. why then the apple premium for quality craftmanship?
atleast when you pick up a burner for a windows machine its comes supplyed with a app that is supposed to work with the burner. and ahead, the makers of nero, makes sure that they support as many as they can.
so how come then that apple refuse to do the same? that in fact like some posts here points to, the system have to patched by third partys for some of the hardware to even work as a basic cd-rom drive, much less a burner. i have yet to see any burner on the x86 platform that didnt work as a cd-rom out of the box, no special drivers or anything like that.
yes one can hunt for the original of the rebranded apple superdrive but then why should that be needed when apple makes a point of rebranding it and with a eye-catching name no less.
basicly this article is pointing out a case of apple arogance, nothing less, nothing more. there is a reason why x86 systems stopped shipping with custom mohterboards some time in the 90’s. so why is apple still doing something similar in the 21. century?
I type in the following for a Google search:
PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-103
Amazing. The x86 machines have serious problems installing one on such obscure (sarcasm) computers as a Compaq. This is not just an Apple problem.
re-branding?
dude… everyone knows it is a pioneer 106. the 107 was added to their driver as have a couple other manufactures.
and patchburn works perfect for currently unsupported brands.
I have an NEC dual layer burner that I added and it works in all the iApps and Toast takes care of the +r media and dual layer media (though I have no use for +r since -R /RW is just fine.)
seriously… a person has to go out of their way to get messed up when buying a DVD burner upgrade for a Mac.
Quote: “dude… everyone knows it is a pioneer 106. the 107 was added to their driver as have a couple other manufactures. ”
Really? I think you jest. I suggest maybe you go work on Apples technical call centre and see how “many” customers know this. Go on. I’d say less than 10% of the Apple users would know, or even want to know. You’re making a presumption that because you’re a power user, everyone else that uses a Mac is as well. You’re wrong, blatantly wrong. I spent 9 months in the Australian Tier 1 Apple Call Centre, so, I think I might know what i’m talking about here. Been there, done that. Have you?
Quote: “I have an NEC dual layer burner that I added and it works in all the iApps and Toast takes care of the +r media and dual layer media (though I have no use for +r since -R /RW is just fine.)”
That’s really compatible – NOT. The whole point of it is you should be able to get a DVD Burner from Apple, that suits their machines and works with the range of iApps. Without having to resort to 3rd party hardware and software. Is that so hard? When I worked for Apple Australia, the superdrives only supported dvd-r. Not sure if they support more now or not, but I doubt it, unless iDVD has been upped to support the other formats. It can’t be that hard either to support multiple formats, I mean if k3b can do it, then surely Apple can do it with iDVD? I know who has a lot more money etc.
The entire reason why Apple doesn’t want to support anything else other than it’s very limited choice of hardware is to ensure that OS X doesn’t break, ie. hardware drivers. Apple controls the list of hardware that works with it’s premiere operating system, and by that they control how “reliable” it remains. Limited hardware, means limited driver support, which means less trouble. Apple Macs support the least amount of hardware out of the box of any platform that I can think of, i’d even say proprietary Unixes support more hardware (although it’d be close). Apple wants OS X to look reliable, and it will manufacture results to do so. Look at their initial G5 apple campaign and how misleading it was. That said, every manufacturer does the same thing, but in this instance Apple didn’t get away with it.
Why is this so? Apple WANTS you to buy its hardware. It wants your money. As dodgy as Microsoft Windows is, it, at least, supports a reasonable amount of hardware (although mostly cos it bludgeons hardware manufacturers to support Windows with drivers – take away those drivers and the actual kernel for Windows supports very little out of the box).
Don’t get me wrong, I like Apples OS X, very much, it’s a fine operating system. But it has a lot of shortcomings as well. Flexibility leaves a lot to be desired hardware wise, and that’s a deliberately manufactured issue (by Apple). Apple Macs are nice, but they are extremely proprietary hardware wise. They are pricey as well, and not that much better build quality than rival x86 PCs I might add.
Want to know a secret? eMacs had a a 1 in 10 dead on arrival rate. I’m not joking. That’s 10%, and for a large manufacturer that’s disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful. Of course I don’t have the numbers in writing, they’re the property of Apple and carefully hidden away from public consumption. iMacs weren’t much better, PowerMacs seemed more reliable off the ramp. iPods were even worse in terms of dead on arrival, or failures within 3 months of purchase (and not due to customer abuse either).
I’m sure if Apple saw this post (and my comment) they’d want to sue my rear end off for some bullshit NDA – it’s the type of company that they are. Apple would sue the fly off a dunny wall if it thought the fly had heard something it shouldn’t have.
Dave
“I’m sure if Apple saw this post (and my comment) they’d want to sue my rear end off for some bullshit NDA – it’s the type of company that they are. Apple would sue the fly off a dunny wall if it thought the fly had heard something it shouldn’t have. ”
Do you have delusions of grandeur much?
A nine month term apple call centre employee, and Apples gonna sue you?
Did you actually read any of the posts before making this ignorant one?
“I cannot believe how Mac fans are defending Apple over this. As for claiming the original poster had unreasonable expectations – no, he absolutely did not. His expectations are exactly what the overwhelming majority of consumers would have expected in a similar situation. The expectations of Apple zealots on the other hand…well, the posts here speak for themselves don’t they?”
Sorry but this is totally lame. Your in Tech support for 10 years but you want to buy a part from the Manufacturer? That’s just dumb, why pay that markup? I know of NO tech that would ever do something like that. Should Apple sell one to you probably? If you want to throw away $450 that’s your business. the fact that they don’t though? Big Deal.
My story:
The original CD-RW went out on my 744mhz G4 just recently and I had to find a replacement fast.
I jumped online and found out who made the ‘superdrive’….Pioneer. (5mins)
did a search for Pioneer drives…Found the DVR-108 for $79 Off dealmac.com….ordered it….Waited 5 days
Recieved drive…Installed it…(5min)…Loaded Patchburn (It installs device drivers, It’s not a ‘hack’)..(5min to dl and install)…Drive works fine,
To whine about not being able to waste $450 when It’s not an issue what so ever to get a compatible drive Installed, In just minutes, Is just priggish. It makes me wonder what sort of ‘tech’ you were .
Btw I’ve been a Tech also.
“Want to know a secret? eMacs had a a 1 in 10 dead on arrival rate. I’m not joking. That’s 10%, and for a large manufacturer that’s disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful. Of course I don’t have the numbers in writing, they’re the property of Apple and carefully hidden away from public consumption. iMacs weren’t much better, PowerMacs seemed more reliable off the ramp. iPods were even worse in terms of dead on arrival, or failures within 3 months of purchase (and not due to customer abuse either).”
I am not surprised, consider that the eMacs were featured in the TOP TEN WORST PRODUCTS of 2004:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1735287,00.asp
However, the good news is that they will be dropping the dreadfull eMacs line, and there other good changes coming from APple. Also in general Apple does puts out a good quality package.
Cheers.
Where on earth did you get the 10% figure. Also, if you read the URL you referenced they give a reference to the top desktops and the iMac was listed (PC Magazine article cited). So, please enlighten us or your statements will have to be labeled as pure FUD.
I’m sooo upset that you won’t sell me that hamburger on your plate! How dare you! McDonald’s would do it, and so would Burger King. In fact you must sell me everything I demand you sell me, because you no longer have a right to run your business as you see fit without people whining about your choice of what products to sell.