Apple Computer Inc.’s Senior Vice President of Hardware Product Marketing, Phil Schiller, officially kicked off Apple Expo Paris this week introducing the iMac G5 during his keynote address. Analysts are unanimous in their support for the new consumer machine and the strategic ties Apple has drawn between the iMac and the iPod in marketing the computer. Read the interview here.
Phil Schiller, analysts discuss the iMac G5
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if you shop on price, then fine, it is to expensive and you should get your walmart PC. if you shop on Price/performance/features then the iMac G5 is a good buy.
After seeing the news reports, the imac looked like a pretty good deal for all that you got. So I configured a DIY PC last night with the same specs as the new iMac (in both hardware and bundled software), comparing prices from search results from Froogle.com, (paring the low-end iMac’s G5 to a 3GHz P4), the DIY came out to be $300 above the iMac in price… and this after using only lteh cheapest hardware i could find.
This was very interesting.
the standard iMac G5 comes with a paltry 256MB
upgrade that when you order it and you now have a “custom” box that cannot be returned.
do potential buyers know this?
then get 3rd party RAM after market!!!
I guess it depends on the laws where you’re from. Here in the UK it wouldn’t matter, as the iMac would still need to be fit-for-purpose whether it’s “custom” or not, as per the Sale of Goods Act…
Memory upgrading at POS makes it a custom build and cannot be returned.
If you say “apple won’t accept custom boxes”, or “my diy came out 300$ more than an imac”, can you please give more detail? For example, “I read at http://www.foo.bar that apple is going to do this”, or “configuring an p4 2,8ghz with 17” flatscreen, ordering my compontents at http://bar.foo, comes out 1800$, while a comparable imac is 1500$”.
It would make everything here just a bit more easy.
>> Memory upgrading at POS makes it a custom build and cannot be returned
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespolicies.html
if you upgrade memory it is not longer prebuilt. they only refund prebuilt configurations
i am not bs’ing you, i recently went through this with them on a G5 tower
don’t believe me still? try it yourself.
“Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
1. Product that is custom configured to your specifications”
YES adding memory is a “custom config”
and who won’t want more than a pitiful 256MB?????
stop sticking up for apple, this is anti-consumer
How much RAM does OSX consume? Is 256MB enough for anything more than browsing and email? (Not that I’m trolling, just asking.)
to me a base PC/Mac should be 1GB if you want the box to grow out for two or three years.
512MB is acceptable, seems to be what most vendors ship with now
256MB is not acceptable, OSX may be lean but your apps might not be
256MB really must be some kind of a joke. I use an iBook with 640MB RAM and it works great. I wouldn’t want to use it with 256MB. OSX eats it for breakfast…
so why buy from apple directly? go to MacMall or MacConnection….they’ll almost always give you a ton of extra memory for the cost of installation….and usually a whole lot of other free/rebate stuff as well. Between me and my boyfriend, we’ve bought 5 macs, all from places such as these and always gotten extra memory in the deal. In fact, I’ve never seen a catalog including the current ones where extra memory wasn’t available for only the cost of installation with the purchase of a new mac.
PS…run 10.3 on my dual 868 G4 with 768MB memory and it runs very well.
if these other vendors allow you to return the units even if they are customized then truly there is zero reason to buy from the apple store, online or the physical stores (they have the same policies)
well, more to the point is that the physical apple stores don’t sell custom configs at all, only what they have on stock
I buy from the apple store for the educational discount. I buy extra RAM afterwards for cheap. but if I did not have my educational discount I would buy from the catalogues.
Them not accepting a RMA when the box is custom built is indeed ridiculous. However I have a “custom built” G5 under my desk here that I’ve had a minor issue with.. Apple dealt with the problem very quickly and I’ve been a happy camper ever since.
It also seems to me that this policy applies to machines that work correctly but just not to your expectation. Much like a “Not happy with it? We’ll give you your money back” deal. I have little compassion for people who make a $1000+ investment without first giving their prospective hardware a test run at a store. That’s just dumb and I’m not at all surprised that Apple won’t take back perfectly working custom built machines like that. If it’s actually broken, then that’s another story. In my experience AppleCare is one of the most customer friendly warranty plans in the industry, and I’ve used it.
yeah, good point. Apple will cover all their products for problems, but Buyers remorse is not their problem. many people in fact get Buyers remorse when they make a large investment in a product like a new big TV or a new car or a home or a computer. Tough cooties. besides, even with their off the shelf products they only give you 10 days to return the product which is plenty of time to sit, think, and test it out.
BTW, macmall.com gives free 256 MB extra RAM to the computers, a free epson printer and a free DVD player to all buyers of a new computer. Not bad.
“Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
1. Product that is custom configured to your specifications”
YES adding memory is a “custom config”
and who won’t want more than a pitiful 256MB?????
stop sticking up for apple, this is anti-consumer
Try asking around a bit more… I’m sure you’ll find someone sympathetic. We had no trouble exchanging a 17″ PowerBook with an AirPort extreme card and upgraded RAM for a G5 tower, although I’m sure your mileage in regards to a cash refund might vary.
Sheesh Bascule,
Yes, you are right, the best bang for the buck is 640-768meg of memory with OS X or Windows XP. Both will run with 256meg, if you don’t mind waiting a bit for things to load.
However, This isn’t just Apple. This is across the board with All Manufacturers: Dell, Gateway, IBM, HP….
This is get you in the door PRICING, buy the computer, then if you want it faster you bump up your memory yourself with a 512meg memory module from http://www.crucial.com. All low end machines are shipped this way.
reports of real world folks being denied by apple on this refund issue.
everyone is different on it…dell is 25 or 30 for a total satisfaction guaranty. return for any reason whatsoever. clearly with both you will pay to ship it back.
but
“I have little compassion for people who make a $1000+ investment without first giving their prospective hardware a test run at a store.”
thats great if you live near major cities in the usa that have apple stores or a compusa or a few other select vendors that sell macs.
where i live is a 2 hour drive to the nearest mac that is available on a store shelf.
what if you live in kansas? or wyoming? there are large swaths of the usa and the world where you cannot easily get to a mac on a store shelf.
At work I run a G4 400MHZ with 256mb of ram. Run 10.3.5 with no problems.
Use it for MS Office the internet running Netscape or Firefox.
Also use remote desktop to manage many mac’s on the network.
So for people at home just doing some word docs or browsing the internet, checking e-mail 256mb should be fine.
Now if there going to run Photoshop or something that’s a different story.
because he lives in BFE.
>> yeah, good point. Apple will cover all their products for problems, but Buyers remorse is not their problem.
it is if they want to stay competitive
look, no one is disputing that the cultists will buy whatever apple markets under any terms.
but for other people who actually comparison shop and read the fine print, this is anti-consumer…particularly since apple seems to place an emphasis on customer care
i see google cache has pages where it used to be 30.
it is now 21 days for pcs:
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy…
“Total Satisfaction Return Policy (U.S. Only)
We value our relationship with you and want to make sure that you’re satisfied with your purchases. That’s why we offer a Total Satisfaction return policy for most products that you, the end-user customer, purchase directly from Dell. Under this policy, you may return to Dell products that you purchased directly from Dell for a credit or a refund of the purchase price paid, less shipping and handling and applicable return fees as follows:
* New Hardware Products and Accessories: Unless you have a separate agreement with Dell, all hardware, accessories, peripherals, parts and unopened software still in its sealed package, excluding the products listed below, may be returned within twenty-one (21) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice. New PowerEdgeTM , PowerConnectTM and PowerVaultTM products may be returned within thirty (30) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice except that new PowerEdgeTM SC servers and n series products purchased from the Small and Medium Business Sales Division may only be returned within fourteen (14) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice. To return applications software or an operating system that has been installed by Dell, you must return the entire computer. A different return policy applies to nondefective products purchased through Dell’s Software and Peripherals division by customers of our Small and Medium Business divisions. Those products may be returned within twenty-one (21) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice, but a fifteen percent (15%) return fee will be deducted from any refund or credit. The Total Satisfaction Return Policy and Software and Peripherals division return policy are not available for Dell/EMC storage products, EMC-branded products, Unisys-branded products, PowerVaultTM 160T tape libraries, enterprise software, non-Dell branded enterprise products, software and/or software licenses purchased under any type of volume purchase agreement or any non-Dell customized hardware and/or software product(s).
* Reconditioned or Refurbished Dell-Branded Hardware Products and Parts: All reconditioned or refurbished PowerEdgeTM , PowerConnectTM and PowerVaultTM products may be returned within thirty (30) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice. All other reconditioned or refurbished Dell-branded hardware products and parts may be returned within fourteen (14) days of the date on the packing slip or invoice.”
and that applies to pcs that have been modified away from a base config as well.
the new iMacs come with SATA drives. that in and of it self speeds up the OS a whole lot. I had 512 MBs of RAM in my 400 MHZ Power Mac and a 5200 RPM hard drive. it ran…OK, but I thought it was slow. I needed more storage, so I CCCed my stuff to a 7200.8 Seagate Barracude and man that system took off. now I can not even tell the difference between loading my ho-hum apps on the 400 MHz machine and my 1 GHz iBook. where I hurt though is when I use iMovie and render and encode it. that is when the CPU speed hurts, but for office work, 400 MHz works fine as long as you have a fast hard drive with a nice sided cache on it…. more memory than 256 just makes it marginally better.
Comparing Apples to Oranges….Dells
Ok iMac is low-end so compare to cheapest Dell with almost the same functionality.
Dell w 17 inch lcd = $1377 yet it is not an all-in-one
Dell with 20″ lcd = $1887
Specs for the Dells otherwise:
Pentium 4 at 2.8 Ghz (533 FSB)
Windows XP Pro (Can’t compare Home to OS X because OS X has all the features of Pro and more)
256 Megs RAM
80 gig hd/160 with 20 inch screen
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R) w/double layer write capability
Fireiwre PCI adapter
128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI
What your not getting with the Dells:
Gigabit Ethernet
Widescreen LCD
All in One enclosure
64 bit capability->Especially for linux users
A design that begs to be seen, not shoved under a desk.
What your not getting with the iMac:
64 extra megs in the viedo card.
Crap trial software you have to remove
The lower end Dell (17″) was made to compare with the mid range iMac. $122 isn’t all that much considering what benefits you will gain. (IMO).
At the higher end, there is no question in my mind that the iMac is by far the better deal for merely 12 dollars extra.
Feel free to try doing the spec work on your own elsewhere. Just make sure you don’t compare OS X to Windows XP Home. OS X’s capabilities far outstrip those of XP Home. And if your selling to businesses that need to join a domain, you would need Pro anyway.
explain to me how a comparison shopper would need to return a machine? they already looked at what was out there and picked…. heck, you only get 3 days with a friggen car and unless there is an undisclosed problem, you get no time after you close on a house.
so look more closely
“What your not getting with the Dells:
Gigabit Ethernet ”
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
apple is going backwards to nickle and dime their consumers. every buck saved ads to their shaky financial future.
the new imacs DO NOT have gigabit ethernet anymore:
“Networking Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet”
and we can compare xp home and pro both to os x. on a pc the consumer has a choice to pay for the features or if they arent needed they dont buy them.
dont want a web server, buy xp home
dont need remote desktop control, buy xp home
etc etc….save about $70
“you work on Macs but the nearest mac store (Apple or 3rd party) is 2 hours from you? unlikely”
that is just ridiculous. i can guaranty you that their are whole school districts in the usa that have a complete county school system outfitted in macs and the nearest retail mac outlet is more than 2 hours away.
dont be dumb.
“and we can compare xp home and pro both to os x. on a pc the consumer has a choice to pay for the features or if they arent needed they dont buy them. “
The PC allows you to buy less and therefor pay less, but that does not make it less expensive, but rather, more configurable.
If we are talking solely about being less expensive, as all the previous comparisons have shown, the iMac is indeed less expensive.
its not about comparing a pc that is dressed up to be as much like a mac as possible. its about buying a computer.
most evaluate a whole slew of features and have many reasons for why they make their purchase. when you boil it all down nearly all desktop computer buyers get something that resembles the same thing we have purchased for 25 yrs:
a tower or desktop
a monitor
a keyboard
a mouse
various accessories like speakers, printers, cameras, scanners, etc.
thinking that the world is gonna fall over in a tizzy over an ugly and over priced all in one is delusional. imac sales have steadily been going down since the first 18 months of release.
for a real comparison, look at it the way a real shopper does and you will get something like this:
compare high end (price not performance) imac to typical mid range (priced) pc for features and price:
http://store.apple.com/
20″ lcd with 1680 x 1050 res
1.8ghz g5 cpu
600mhz bus
slim all in one case and stand
256mb pc3200 ddr400 sdram
geforce fx 5200 ultra 64mb vid card via 8x agp
160gb serial ata (sata) hard drive
slot load 4x (- only, + standard is not supported) dvd burner with 16x cd burning
Two FireWire 400 ports
three USB 2.0 ports
two USB 1.1 ports (on keyboard)
VGA outputs 2: S-video and composite video output
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 modem
Headphone/optical digital audio output; audio line in
Built-in stereo speakers, Apple Keyboard, Apple Mouse
Mac OS X and the iLife suite of software including Appleworks
90 days phone support
1 yr limited warranty
$1899 plus shipping
http://www.ztgroup.com/config.asp?model=a5307
NEC 19-inch CRT FE991SB PureFlat Black Superbright Monitor 1792 x 1344 res
AMD Athlon™ 64 Processor 3200+ 1600FSB w/ HyperTransport
1600mhz bus
Antec SX635BII case w/350W power supply
1.0GB PC3200 Dual Channel DDR400 (2 Pieces of 512MB)
128MB ATI RADEON™ 9600 XT w/ TV-Out & DVI (Support Dual Monitor)via agp 8x
MSI K8T NEO FISR2 VIA K8T800 Chipset Mainboard w/SPDIF Out
Seagate® 160GB Serial ATA/150 7200rpm (8MB Cache) Hard Drive
Lite-On SOHW-812S 8X DVD±RW (burns cds at 40x)
Mitsumi FA402A 7 in 1 Flash Memory Reader USB 2.0 & 1.44MB Floppy Combo Drive (supports Compact Flash, MicroDrive, Secure Digital Card, MultiMedia Card, MemoryStick, SmartMedia)
U.S Robotics® 56K V.92 Fax Modem
10/100/1000 ethernet
2 sata raid controllers
3 IDE ata133 controllers
8 usb 2.0 ports
3 firewire 400 ports
5 pci slots (3 open) and 1 agp slot (0 open)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 6.1 Audio w/ Firewire 1394
ATI TV Wonder VE Tuner Card
Logitech® Z-640 5.1 6-piece Speakers w/ Subwoofer
Logitech® Cordless MX Duo Keyboard & Rechargeable Optical Wheel Mouse
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Edition
MS Works 7.0, PowerDVD, Sonic MyDVD, Nero Burning ROM, Computer Associates EZ Trust Anti-Virus for 1 Year, Windows Movie Maker
3-year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support
$1759 plus shipping
so what do you get?
the mac is thinner, it is lighter, it makes less noise, it costs more, its less expandable, it has a larger monitor viewing area, it either looks better or worse based on your taste.
the pc is heavier, it is bigger, it has more fans and will be louder, it will run cooler and put less stress on components, it costs less, it has a higher resolution monitor, it switches resolutions better than an lcd, it is way more expandable, it looks better or worse based on your tastes, it has many more features, and it is substantially more powerful for all consumer, game, business, and professional applications.
the pc also has
a much faster cpu that is also 64 bit capable
it has four times the RAM memory
it has a dvd burner that is two times faster
it has a dvd burner that allows you to pick either + or – media
it has a cd burner that burns at 40x instead of the macs 16x
it has a tv tuner card
it has a substantially more powerful video card that has many more features and double the memory
it has a 7 in 1 memory card reader
it has a floppy drive if you still need one
it has 5.1 speakers included
it has wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse set included
it has a warranty that is three times as long
it has gigabit ethernet (apple is now going backwards on the imac to 100mbit?)
it has four sata busses
it has three ide busses
it has more usb 2.0 and firewire ports
it has several hard drive (3) and optical drive bays (2) open
it has more sound in and out ports
it has 1 year of anti virus and security software included http://www.my-etrust.com/microsoft/
it has all well known, trusted, brand name, retail components that specs are readily available for
prebuilt and shipped to your doorstep. ready to lock and load….and if you missing something with that $150 you saved you can go get a scanner or a cheap camera or a cheap palm or an inkjet or whatever.
and that folks is why Apple’s worldwide marketshare is now down to 1.8%.
For the people outraged by apple: well then price out a better 2″ thick all-in-one Intel/AMD PC with a combo/superdrive, bluetooth, firewire, 80211.g, and a built-in 17″-20″ LCD .. oh yeah did I mention it has to be no thicker than 2″ and have no audible fan output noise?
was to duplicate
“For the people outraged by apple: well then price out a better 2″ thick all-in-one Intel/AMD PC with a combo/superdrive, bluetooth, firewire, 80211.g, and a built-in 17″-20″ LCD .. oh yeah did I mention it has to be no thicker than 2″ and have no audible fan output noise?”
than we would just buy that imac. why not go ahead and add the g5 to the comparison and the mac os x too.
when people buy a computer they evaluate more than just whether or not it looks like a laptop on a stick.
“when people buy a computer they evaluate more than just whether or not it looks like a laptop on a stick.”
Bingo!!! and that’s the very reason why a lot of people by Macs instead of Wintel machines!!!!
“Bingo!!! and that’s the very reason why a lot of people by Macs instead of Wintel machines!!!!”
actually thats why fewer and fewer buy macs. now down to 1.8% of the world. was 5% about 6 yrs ago. was 10% about 10 yrs. ago.
BINGO! 1.8% isn’t “a lot”
hehe
on that previous thread someone challenged you to come up with the market share of ZT whatever as you were comparing apple to them…. i still haven’t seen you’re response, but i bet it’s not 1.8%
Bingo!
you need to head on back and do some reading:
http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=8141&offset=225&rows=236
i can read, and you still didn’t answer the question of what ZT’s market share is, not PC market share. Perhaps you need to read and comprehend the question???
A declining market share is not synonymous to a decline in sales, and is not a sign that fewer and fewer buy something.
“looks like they sell about 250,000 units per yr.
considering that worldwide pc market this yr is about 185 million, you do the math.”
theres the answer
and
“What is ZTGroup’s marketshare in the PC industry?”
that was the question.
so i provided the data for the answer. you too can do the math…..i hope.
oh and lest you not realize it, macs are part of that number. macs are personal computers as well.
Macs in general have gained ground from 2.0 to 2.2 percent in the last six months after the PowerMac G5s came out. The main reason for not gaining more ground are:
1) IBM hasn’t gotten enough supply to Apple so they could build enough to keep up with demand.
2) Apple stated months ago that they were trying to ship a G5 iMac. Why didn’t they? IBM isn’t getting them enough G5 chips. Also, when IBM said they WOULD be able to get Apple the supply they couldn’t. But Apple didn’t find out until they had already stopped making more G4 iMacs. It’s kind of hard to sell what you don’t have in stock.
The industry has said that Apple would have gained more ground than .2% if it hadn’t been for reasons 1 and 2.
——-
On a separate topic. Those that want Windows will buy computers that run Windows. Those people that want to run Mac OS X will buy computers that run Mac OS X.
——
On another topic. Those of you that want to build your own Mac. How about building your own car from scratch first. After all, without all that nicely designed exterior, and without all that non needed things like sound deadening, air conditioning, padded doors and dash, etc., the car would be MUCH faster. But also a lot less enjoyable for a daily commute.
well seeing as you appear to have a problem doing the math on data you provide, i’ll do it for ya. i’d say that apple selling almost thirteen times as many machines a year compared to ZT is quite significant…
perhaps ZT should consider throwing in the towel…
Mac’s are PC’s as well?!? well you learn something new every day!
“A declining market share is not synonymous to a decline in sales, and is not a sign that fewer and fewer buy something.”
but while the overall market is growing, apples has declined.
apple sold fewer computers in 2003 than they did in 1999.
they likewise will sell fewer in 2004 than they did in 1999.
“Macs in general have gained ground from 2.0 to 2.2 percent in the last six months”
that is the usa market only is it not? do you have a link for that data?
and though a 6 month upward trend is nice. it doesnt change the worldwide trend that has continued for over 10 yrs.
apple market share is shrinking relative to the whole PC market and they now sell fewer macs than they did 5 yrs ago as well. so they have shrunk in mac sales relative to their own best years.
“but while the overall market is growing, apples has declined.”
No. It’s market share has declined (and I am not sure that is still true).
“apple sold fewer computers in 2003 than they did in 1999.”
And they sold more computers in 2003 than they did in 2002. So what?
“they likewise will sell fewer in 2004 than they did in 1999.”
Maybe. So what? They may well sell more in 2004 than in 2003.
That will be my last post in that thread, that is looking more and more like a duplicate of the previous. But I find your obsession with Apple and its market share a little weird. You don’t sem to be bothered by Alienware market share, for example (Beware, this is a bait. I’m waiting for something)
truthteller is simply amazing.
the amount of time he spends on a company/product he dislikes is a true sign of something gone a bit wrong.
I really am a bit interested in his motivations.
What makes a crusader against a corporation that puts out fine products and software?
Hmm.
The poisoning of all mac threads in OS news might be a motivation.
add:
While I fing truthteller’s motivation for poisoning the well a bit interesting in a meta sense, his posts are stump cold boring.
“i’d say that apple selling almost thirteen times as many machines a year compared to ZT is quite significant…”
zt group or even me building my own machine get the benefit of amd and intels competition.
we all benefit from the scale of intels and amds production.
we all benefit with the competition amongst hundreds of system builders.
etc etc etc.
apple is the one rowing alone. though they are desperately trying to pump water by incorporating open source software and they have finally gotten reasonably clued in about using non proprietary parts and ports on macs.
fact is apple sells 13x as many personal computers and their scale doesnt help them one bit in the price department.
in your opinion apples are overpriced and underpowered, yet you don’t find it significant that they sell 13x more than the cheap and cheerful ZT that you pushed forward??? it’s a company whose products you choose to compare to apple afterall…
well i guess that there’s must be an “X” factor about Macs that a lot of people like, but is lost on you.
‘economic girly men’
LMAO 🙂
I wish the tech journos would ask basic questions to schiller, like how come you put in barely adaquate ram in your macs, which make your iLife programs run slow and give a false impression, esp now w/ a g5 ?
Asking questions like that of Apple execs is what most of us want to hear.
you are the ones perpetuating personal attacks.
personal attacks and name calling lower os news.
stay on topic. i know computers and computing fairly well.
i know macs best of all.
debate the facts not the person.
i am discussing computers and computer related issues.
stay on topic please.
Not to say that 256MB is ok (my gut reaction is that it needs more RAM, but that’s because of my Wintel background), but does anyone have any real word experience of how a G5 runs with that amount of RAM in it?
Granted, 256MB is pretty skimpy for OSX, but how hard is it to order RAM from a third party retailer? It’s not like this is a SGI or Sun workstation from the early ’90s where you have to purchase the RAM from the original machine vendor. You can purchase RAM for a G5 tower or iMac from pretty much any computer third party retailer and save a ton of money. As for RideEmPony, I feel really bad for you. The is definitely a cause for complaint. Apple is USUALLY pretty great about customer service, but if you’re one of the few that gets burned I can see how it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. If it hasn’t been too long, I would call up customer service and keep asking for a return. If you’re told no, ask for the person’s supervisor, and keep going up the chain of command until someone is willing to accomadate you.
I love Apple, but I realize that sometimes they fall down on the job and people have bad experiences with them. Not nearly as much as other companies, but even one bad experience is too many when superior customer service is one of your claims to fame.
really isnt adaquate for some of the iLife apps.
I’m of the mind that if Apple included 512 as their basic ran package, it would
give a better impression to newbies.
iMovie and garageband need more ramage.
Yeah, i know it’s trivial to add RAM to the machine, but I’d really like to know how well a G5 performs with just 256MB’s in it.
256mb ran fine for me. even imovie worked fairly well when i was making a Red VS Blue dvd from all the hi-res movies. it DOES get to swap a lot when you have lots of apps running, i upgraded about 3 months after i got my pb (came 256) and i’m now running 768 and it works great too but i can run a lot more apps and less swapping. but it was very useable with only 256 and anyone doing web browsing or email or simple imovie stuff will find that it’s perfectly fine for them. power users may no find it fine for them. but the imac is introductory hardware.. pricey sometimes compared to the really low budget pc’s but the deal was good for me..
I’d imagine that the SATA drives in the new iMac would help a lot re: the disk swapping if only running with 256MB of RAM…
it does work fine w/256, however the beach ball does come up (swapping) more than it should when doing a couple of things at the same time.
Well, they do have to keep their margins up so stockholders are happy (and to fund their R n D).
you will note that buying third party ram for modern macs is somewhat risky.
go with a brand that has a good rep and good service in case it doesnt perform perfectly.
id recommend crucial.com
they have configurator so you are sure to get just what is right for your mac.
they a bit more pricey than bargain stuff but they have a lifetime warranty and that is worth a lot.
“if you spend any time in mac forums”
LOL.
thanks for that attempt at humor!
thats a good one, truthteller.
is always the funniest!
looks like they sell about 250,000 units per yr.
Last financial quarter (third) 2004 Apple sold approximately 876,000 computers (iMacs, G5 towers, laptops, etc).
Second quarter 2004, Apple sold about 749,000 Macs.
First quarter 2004, Apple sold about 829,000 Macs.
So Apple sold about 2,454,000 Macs this year to date.
Get your facts straight (proof? Read the SEC filings every quarter)
This post has nothing to do with the following topics:
(1) How much RAM comes stock in the iMac (yes, we can all agree that 256MB is a bit slim – this topic has been done to death).
(2) The graphics card that ships in the iMac (yes, they should have included a newer, more powerful card – again, done to death).
(3) The returns policies of Apple Computer, Inc. (also done to death).
(4) The worldwide PC marketshare and sales figures of Apple Computer, Inc. (being killed softly).
Now that that’s out of the way, a few points:
– I (and probably plenty of others) were surprised to see Apple take this route considering what they said about this exact design when they launched the ‘Sunflower’ iMac G4. In-particular, vertically mounting an optical disc drive was decried by Steve as causing problems then and there, and this was a major part in making the design “less than great”. I’m curious to know what’s happened to change Jobs’/Ives’ minds on this, and how the optical drive will perform.
– Regarding the extra “padding” at the bottom of unit (making the display appear ‘off-center’): I doubt this will be too much of a dealbreaker, and I doubt that it will be more than a few days before users simply ignore it.
– It’s a shame that you can’t raise-lower the display like you could with the iMac; this was a good feature, and with some ingenuity I believe could have been incorporated into the new design to some extent.
– Regarding FireWire 800 ports: the previous version of iMac, and the current versions of the iBook, don’t have these either. Apple clearly considers this a ‘professional’ option for the moment, and given that FireWire 800 hasn’t gone too far as yet, I can see that.
– Several have already commented that these would very much make good ‘lab computers’, and I have to agree. I guess the question becomes now, what are Apple planning when they (inevitably) update the eMac? Based on this announcement, that could be awhile away now…
– If there weren’t pairing issues to deal with, I feel that they should’ve included BlueTooth standard and wireless keyboard/mouse. “Profusely Corded” applies here. But that’s just me.
This release don’t seem to have been quite as “big” as Apple had hoped overall, but the figures – when they come in – will tell the true story.
digitaleon.
this is a problem with their laptop lines, but in the eMac, Power Mac and iMac forums it is never brought up.
“It’s a shame that you can’t raise-lower the display like you could with the iMac; this was a good feature, and with some ingenuity I believe could have been incorporated into the new design to some extent.”
Apple intends to introduce a mount that will give you this ability…
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?product…
I think there is always a trade-off when buying a iMac, but now having the G5 in it makes it more attractive. I have one of the origal ones along with my newer compaq. So it’s a toss up for me what to do, should i go for the Duel 1.8 or the middle line 17″ iMac.
Re: Debman (IP: —.cable.mindspring.com)
the new iMacs come with SATA drives. that in and of it self speeds up the OS a whole lot.
Re: Anonymous (IP: —.force9.co.uk)
I’d imagine that the SATA drives in the new iMac would help a lot re: the disk swapping if only running with 256MB of RAM.
It doesn’t make any difference that they’re SATA and not regular PATA. Both interfaces are more than fast enough not to be a bottleneck – the physical drives aren’t going to be punching out data anywhere near either interface’s maximum speed. Any comparisons with PCs that have PATA drives are perfectly fair.
With regards to price (prices in Australian dollars):
A stock 17″ 1.6Ghz iMac with Superdrive and 80Gb HDD is $2199. That’s about a month’s average take-home (after tax) wage and represents a pretty high barrier to entry. However, the only glaring problem with it is the video card, which is an absolute joke. The memory is a bit light-on, but standard configs always are. The processor is fast enough for the target market and the hard disk size is reasonable. The video card really is ridiculous, however, for a machine that will almost certainly be bought by people who are going to want to play some games on it and has no upgradability at all (it would be tolerable if it was modular – even if that required a return to the dealer for upgrade – or even if there were better BTO options). Very few current games are going to give good performance at the LCD’s native resolution and the situation will only get worse.
If Apple had priced this machine $150ish cheaper, made the video upgradable and the peripherals all wireless, it would an outstanding package offering excellent value for money. As it stands, it’s at best an average buy.
ya just don’t get it do ya…………
those of us who buy macs buy them for ONE REASON ONLY……….
M A C O S
No matter how much hardware you get for how little money you spend on a dell, you DON’T get the most important thing:
M A C O S
I’ll gladly spending twice as much for half as much hardware if that’s what I have to do to have
M A C O S
It’t not about hardware……my mac has more than I’ll ever need. It’s not about the most stuff for the money. It’s about one thing and one thing only.
M A C O S
And ya can’t get that on a Dell…………
Someone said they’re two hours away from an Apple store, implying no doubt that PC stores are everywhere, yet their comparisons laid with Dell.
Just ten minutes ago on TV a Dell advert appeared saying “you can’t buy our computers in a store so come online or ring [blah]” and other mumbo-jumbo. Which I found amusing. So apparently trying a Mac is 2 hours away, but trying a Dell is….well…you do the math.
I don’t think the new iMac is for me, but I can definitely see my mother using one. Next time I’m home I’ll see how her (Toshiba) laptops doing and broach the subject. By then the Rev B’s will be out, fingers crossed with a better graphics card. I’m not bothered about RAM, it’s not exactly hard to install (although the people who “build my own for $300 less” seem to find it outrageous they have to put more in).
Matt
Now that all the zealots on each side have had there say. I’d like to add that I would have a mac in a second if they would allow me to build one myself like i can with a PC for substantially less or sell something that doesn’t cost a bazillion dollars that gives me some flexibility. I don’t need something with a built in LCD. I already have one i don’t need another one. I have a DVD burner as well so i don’t need to pay apple an additional $200 for theirs that doesn’t support as many formats and is slower.
Yes most people don’t build their own computers but most people don’t need a new monitor every time they upgrade either. With macs you are stuck with something that is somewhat inexpensive but non upgradable (imac) or something more flexible but ridiculously expensive (Power Mac). Unfortunately neither of those work for me and many others i know so until something changes i’ll stick with my AMD powered linux box.
1) As I stated around post 30 or 45…Those of you that want to build your own Mac. How about building your own car from scratch first. After all, without all that nicely designed exterior, and without all that non needed things like sound deadening, air conditioning, padded doors and dash, etc., the car would be MUCH faster. But also a lot less enjoyable for a daily commute.
2) Unlike Windows users. MOST Mac users don’t throw away their old Macs. They either sell them or keep using them as a second computer. I have friends that bought Mac SEs way back when that still use them to surf the web, do e-mails, write articles or doctorate thesies. No they don’t do the most current powerful stuff. But when was the last time you saw someone using a Pentium based computer let alone a 286.
“M A C O S
And ya can’t get that on a Dell…………”
Good for Dell.
Lessee…. I’m running Safari, iTunes, Firefox, Adium, and a terminal under 10.3.5. I’m using 648 megs of ram (out of a gig) with 323 of that listed as “active”.
In my personal experience, OS X on 256 ram is a joke. Running the apps listed above on 384 ram left me with a machine living in swap. It’s okay on 640 (I haven’t used it on 512)…. and haven’t actually been able to do WORK on a machine with less than a gig of ram. The OS eats the stuff like it’s candy, sucks it up as soon as an app stops using it, and is REALLY stingy about giving it back. 😐
How does a Mac with OS X do with 256 mb of RAM? Great or so so … I all depends on what you are doing.
I’ve got a 800mhz G4 iMac with 512MB of RAM with Mac OS X 10.3.5. I don’t do Photoshop on it because I’m no more and artist than I am 600 feet tall. But I am able to use Garage band to create music with my Evolution MK-361 61 key USB/MIDI keyboard and my Hondo II guitar. I am able to create movies with iMove and burn DVDs with iDVD and so on.
But when my wife is camping on that iMac. I go to my 350 mhz G3 blue and white tower with 256MB of RAM with Mac OS X 10.3.5. I’m able to run Safari with 10 tabs, e-mail, iChat with a group of friends and play songs with iTunes, all at the same time. Anything more and things bog down quickly though. So is it usable? Very much so. As long as you aren’t using GarageBand or anything else like that. Again this is a ___G3___ tower I’m talking about here. Just imagine what a G5 iMac can do with 256 mb of RAM. EVERYTHING a typical non music or graphic artist person would do. Which means most people. It’s the FEW that need more RAM. And if you do, no problem. There are lots of places you can buy RAM.
As for the graphics card. If you want high end, BUY A POWERMAC. That’s what they are there for. And you don’t have to worry about “throwing out” monitors. Get a clue. Buy what correctly fits your wants or needs. Just remember. Most of America and around the world doesn’t play high end games and doesn’t need a faster graphics card.
But I want … (wah wah wah). How about sending me a winning lotto ticket. I want one of those. Meanwhile, go suck on your pacifier.
“As for the graphics card. If you want high end, BUY A POWERMAC”
Ummmm…. sorry, but no. If I buy a Powermac, it’ll cost twice as much, and the lower end ones still have FX5200’s. The stratopherically expensive ones start to have 9600’s – but I wouldn’t call that high end.
You’re right that 256MB of RAM is okay for the average user – but it’s not exactly going to give the iMac longevity, and for the price (especially given the price of RAM now) I’d expect at least 512MB.
Oh, and if you’re after that M A C O S thing…. you can get that on a Dell. It’s called PearPC. It’s not all that fast yet, but you _can_ run it on your Dell.
“but I can definitely see my mother using one. Next time I’m home I’ll see how her (Toshiba) laptops doing and broach the subject. By then the Rev B’s will be out,”
You really should visit your mother more often than that. That’s less than once a year 😉.
I’m running 10.3.5 on a Graphite iBook 366 with 192mb ram, I find that running Thunderbird, a dozen safari tabs and MSN Messenger over an Airport connection is no problem and doesnt cause system slowdown.
Can’t imagine why some people think they need half a gig for basic use.. you don’t. I wouldn’t try running Photoshop or Garageband in low memory, though…..
Could you please disallow such terms as “(declining) market share,” “percentage of total sales,” “installed user base,” and “percent” from all posts in the OSNews forums. All who quote “statistics” on this site seem to have an axe to grind, and the numbers come from God knows where. It is detrimental to the discussions; it turns good conversations rotten. I’m sure it would be trivial to automatically file all such tripe to /dev/null.
k tx
“You really should visit your mother more than that. That’s less than once a year
”
She’s…difficult
As for RAM, I fried a module recently and am back to 384MB until a new one comes, it’s perfectly fine doing day-to-day, but if I solely run an intensive program (eg Halo), it thrashes like hell when I finish and go back to email, browsing etc.
Matt
Nice price, however, if that was on a nice motherboard using AMD and NOT a VIA chipset, then I would consider purchasing it. Who the hell wants to buy a PC with a VIA chipset? the epicentre for all the worlds buggiest chipsets, and heck, lets not get started on MSI! the epicentre of buggy BIOS’s.
So in that package you celebrated, you have a buggy chipset with a buggy BIOS, running a Buggy operating system. Great! what value!
looking at the new imac
we see a fancy new all in one design with top of the line lcds
nice new g5 cpu as compared to aged g4’s
new serial ata hard drives
its also quiet
but when compared to the powermacs and their pricing, what has apple done to slot us into purchasing one or the other?
not bad enough that the imac is not end user upgradable other than ram as compared to the towers. apple has severely crippled the imac with the following:
so that you dont skimp and get an imac in place of powermac, apple has intentionally lowered the bus speeds on the imac: the 1.6ghz model was lowered from 800mhz to 533mhz and the 1.8ghz model was lowered from 900mhz to 600mhz
one choice of video card and it is weak by default. here it is autumn of 2004 and apple is building a mac that has not even shipped yet– with a video card that was released by nvidia in the spring of 2003. why are they now building a computer with an 18 month old video card?
the video card only does video mirroring, not dual display. maybe a hack that breaks your warranty can be found but how many will actually void their warranty to get this standard functionality that apple has removed?
the video card has been limited to video mirroring at a maximum resolution of just 1024 x 768. on pcs the 5200 ultra does video out to a secondary display (not just mirroring) at up to 2048 x 1536
they put a superdrive in it that burns dvd-r at just 4x and cd-r at just 16x– and it only works with dvd – (minus) media. (all of these features make it a model from 2003)
the combo drive (cd-rw and dvd-rom) only reads dvds at 8x and burns and reads cds at just 24x (combo drives on pcs now read dvds at 16x and read and burn cds at 52x)…these speeds are from 2003 as well
two dimm slots with max ram of 2gb (granted quite a bit but still not able to take advantage of what os x can use beyond the old 4gb barrier)
they have gone backward with ethernet…no more gigabit/1000 base. they now have max on imac of just 10/100 base
if you have problems with just your monitor, the whole machine goes down for repair with an all in one
single hard drive with maximum size of 250GB. again a lot, but it cant grow over time. external drives remain an option but then you have a cluttered desk. defeats the all in one scenario
apples wireless implementation only uses the “b” and “g” standards of 802.11. no support for the “a” standard.
if you add ram, get bigger hard drive, add bluetooth, or add wireless card, you now have a “custom” build to order mac and it cannot be returned if you get a lemon or for some reason realize that it isnt what you want
not long ago you could get a base model imac for $799, now the base model is $1299. $500 more. i guess everyone’s salaries have gone up more than mine in the intervening years.
“not bad enough that the imac is not end user upgradable other than ram as compared to the towers. apple has severely crippled the imac with the following: ”
All your reasons are totally bogus. This computer is not and was not designed for Power users. That’s what a PowerMac is for. Take a look at what Dell and Gateway and so forth sell for this price and you will see that they don’t put high end parts in them. And feature for feature you’d have to pay more for a Dell.
Unless you are a gamer (poweruser), graphics artist (power user), you don’t need anything more and will never use the full potential of this machine. This has been stated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over in this thread. Read the posts.
I own a Powermac Dual 2.0 G5, 2 gigs ram. Couldn’t be happier. I’ll never go back to Windows.
I’m happy I made the move. I’d gladly do it again, and again, and again. I’ll be looking to buy Macs for my entire family – and will.
You PC users that have tried/used OSX, I commend you. You may or may not have come away as I have. I you didn’t like the system I’d be more than happy to hear why.
To those of you that haven’t tried it… you don’t know what you’re missing.
I’ve run Windows95/98/2k/Xp (9 years) and Redhat/Suse/Gentoo (4 years [2 years (exclusively)] ). I grew tired of Windows , so I switched to Redhat/Suse, and to Gentoo. I also got tired of Gentoo – the incompatiblities, the maintenance, the upgrades, the desire to run the latest and greatest.
I switched to OSX three months ago. I can say that I’ve now arrived at OSX – and oh, what a relief it is. It’s friendly, reliable, usable, suprisingly intuitive, maintainance free, powerful – yet simple, and out of my way.
The Powermac is simply an amazing piece of machinery. The next time you get a chance, open it up while it’s running. It’s incredibly architected, solidly built, and impressive. Compare an open PowerMac Dual G5 to an open Windows box and you’ll understand why the Mac costs a little more
I could care less what the market share is… for Christ sake I was using Linux exclusively for 2 years. If I was concerned about market share I’d still be in Windows. I’ve been supportive of Linux, but brutally honest when it comes to recommending it. It’s tough to recommend.
Here’s the main problem that I see: Linux is too much of a moving target for developers. Gnome/KDE/XFCE/WindowMaker/X? Which kernel? 2.4, 2.6? What platform – Intel, AMD, IBM? Video cards? Drivers? What libraries does the OS provide – dependencies? There are simply too many variables. And it changes daily, and will continue to do so.
The beautiful thing is that OSX/Windows users have COMMERICAL software support. Linux simply doesn’t have it – and I don’t see how it will. Using Wine, Transgaming only makes your Windows App run on your machine. These are temporary solutions, just a way to get around the deficiency for the time being.
I love OSS software. Without it we’d all be in trouble. It’s not Linux specific though. Every platform has it available. This is a win for ALL platforms, so this is not an advantage Linux has over any others. I like using Gimp on my Mac.
When there is a Linux section in CompUSA/Frys (that has more than the OS) then it’ll be different. Until then, there isn’t a viable market for developers to make money on this platform.
The bottom line is this. If you aren’t happy with Windows, or you’re getting tired of Linux, take a look at OSX. You may be suprised.
Making the switch is easy. You will need to buy a new machine; and you’ll be glad you did
Thank you Apple for making incredible hardware and incredible software. Thanks to all the companies writing apps/games for OSX.
“1) As I stated around post 30 or 45…Those of you that want to build your own Mac. How about building your own car from scratch first. After all, without all that nicely designed exterior, and without all that non needed things like sound deadening, air conditioning, padded doors and dash, etc., the car would be MUCH faster. But also a lot less enjoyable for a daily commute.”
Yeah because building a car and a computer are exactly the same. What a STUPID comparison that is! So what if the computer i build doesn’t look as nice as the imac or powermac (actually i think i could come close though). I don’t sit around and look at my computer i USE it and since MacOS would look and run the same then what’s the difference other than me saving money?
“2) Unlike Windows users. MOST Mac users don’t throw away their old Macs. They either sell them or keep using them as a second computer. I have friends that bought Mac SEs way back when that still use them to surf the web, do e-mails, write articles or doctorate thesies. No they don’t do the most current powerful stuff. But when was the last time you saw someone using a Pentium based computer let alone a 286.”
I don’t throw away mine either that’s why i don’t need a new monitor every time i buy a new computer. My old one ends up being a headless file server that i can ssh into. I could easily do this with an old mac too if apple gave me the option of a decent flexible system and a decent price. Right now they don’t make anything that is flexible for a good price and they are losing out on my business because of it.
If you are happy with your computer, whether you built it yourself or store/mail ordered; it does what you want; it is reliable to your needs; you purchased it with your money; you plan to keep it for as long as you want to; you plan to get rid of it as you see fit; then why does it matter what anyone’s else says or should anyone criticize you about your computer?
How would someone feel if they just purchased whatever, and you being a little more knowledgeable telling them that that wasn’t a very good purchase?
Isn’t it better to encourage someone rather than knock them down?
easily outdo the imac even with a 20″ better quality and more user adjustable lcd monitor
two coupons from http://dealcoupon.com/merchants/dell_home.html
20% off select Dimension desktops of $1,799+.
Note: May exclude Outrageous Deals, dollars off, % off, and select other promotions. 4DX55PM?KSW72N 09/02/2004
Free shipping on Dimension desktops of $999+.
Note: May exclude Outrageous Deals, dollars off, % off, and select other promotions. 5652TG5RMWR14C 09/04/2004
(note that these coupons expire soon, though if you watch dealnews or any other coupon site you will see both of these coupons on weekly basis from Dell)
Dell Dimension 8400
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V…
$2136 minus 20% for total of $1708.80 (shipping is free too)
you get:
Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
FREE UPGRADE! 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x512M)
Dell ® Quietkey ® Keyboard
20.1″ in 2001FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display
128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE
FREE UPGRADE! 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
56K PCI Data/Fax Modem
Dual Drives: 48x CD-RW Drive + 16x DVD+RW/+R w/ double layer write
Sound Blaster Audigy™2 (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 capability
Dell A425 Speakers w/Subwoofer
Productivity Pack including WordPerfect®
Microsoft® Money 2004 Standard
1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year At-Home Service
so, $200 less than the 20″ iMac and you get these benefits
a 20.1″ lcd that can be adjusted (rotatable and height adjustable), has higher resolution (1600×1200), higher contrast ratio (600:1), greater brightness (250), does picture in picture
a faster cpu with faster system bus
4x the memory (1gb over the macs 256mb)
a substantially more powerful video card using pci express and 2x the memory
faster cd burner by 4x (48x versus 16x)
a separate dvd burner that does dual layer discs and is 4x faster (16x versus 4x)
gigabit ethernet that is 10x faster than the macs 100base ethernet.
dual monitor capability
more ports
more expansion capability
with that $200 saved you can get xp pro or a better set of speakers or added software or a camera or a printer or a palm or you get the idea, you can configure it to fit your needs exactly for less money. and it is more customized and more powerful.
What the hell is with your walmart coupon shopping?
Buy the dell and be happy dude.
You waste so much time doing comparison shopping for products you don’t even like.
I keep bringing this up cause you never ever quit.
with that $200 saved you can get xp pro or a better set of speakers or added software or a camera or a printer or a palm or you get the idea, you can configure it to fit your needs exactly for less money. and it is more customized and more powerful.
Who cares? I wanted a Mac I got a Mac. You can get a windows/x86 box for how much ever you want.
Everyone, I know who bought a Mac, loves them and buys more than one for thier family. That is more than a 100% satisfaction rate. And almost everybody I know who bought a dell laptop has replaced it with a diferent model of dell or other brand like Sony. Trust me, I know a lot of people who buy both. And the list of people I know that buy/bought powerbooks and Macs recently is growing faster than those buying Dells.
Your price comparisons are meaningless. Because none of the deals give me the Apple experience. And from what I have seen there are a lot of new Apple customers, I personally know, who love thier purchase and are sticking with it.
So stop your meaningless drivel and have fun comparison shopping but keepp the results to yourself.
I know who bought a dell laptop has replaced it with a diferent model of dell
Within the first 30 days, I must add.
that use a particular product doesnt equate to any measurable fact.
fact is both dell and apple win awards for their service. they are the two highest rated for service by all the major surveys that are done.
believe me, i am no great fan of dell. i use them as an example as they sell a very highly rated 20″ lcd. i would not buy a dell tower for any reason. others abound that are even better.
how many ibook users do you think are happy with the problems that the logic board has caused?
lcd spots on ibooks and powerbooks?
or now those powerbook users with recalled batteries?
or tower owners that had to swap out defectively loud power supplies?
if you have millions of customers you will always find some lemons and unhappy clients.
99% perfect is really good is it not? well just 1% having problems leaves apple with 32,000 displeased clients.
dell is the same deal but they have about 10x the number of computer sales so they likewise with 1% problem rate would have 10x the number of upset customers.
but yes you are correct on one point:
“Your price comparisons are meaningless. Because none of the deals give me the Apple experience. And from what I have seen there are a lot of new Apple customers”
if you must have the “mac” experience, you need to buy a mac.
on the other hand you are quite wrong–
price comparisons of two competing computers and computing platforms posted on a website dedicated to discussing such things is not meaningless. for most people, price helps in the decision process when buying a computer. likewise, feature set and the power of the computer also influences the decision process.
not all posts are directed at just you, so please realize others are reading these posts and they learn a little. some discard it, some might even take the info and use it.
leave up to others to decide for themselves please.
Your obsession is whacked though, really , I have never seen womeone waste his time more thouroghly than you.
I am fasinated by your obsession on a meta level.
What motivates you to spend hours on posts geared to one thing, proving that Apple isn’t worth it to you.
Interesting stuff, you are in a dull, time wasting kind of way.
price comparisons of two competing computers and computing platforms posted on a website dedicated to discussing such things is not meaningless. for most people, price helps in the decision process when buying a computer. likewise, feature set and the power of the computer also influences the decision process.
There is more to a computer than just price, or power and price/performance ratios. Different people have different needs and wants. You can’t just push what you think people need, post stupid comparisons and claim that your are doing a service to someone who would be influenced by your arguments.
Almost anyone reading OSNews knows how to shop for a PC. People who don’t are not reading the comments section on OSNews. So your argument is extremely weak and your posting here just shows an obsession against Apple.
not all posts are directed at just you, so please realize others are reading these posts and they learn a little. some discard it, some might even take the info and use it.
Not at me but a lot of people are fed up with you and your posting. You were even banned from the site once. That should say something.
leave up to others to decide for themselves please.
Same to you. Let people make thier platform decisions.
lcd spots on ibooks and powerbooks?
I have a powerbook that has gone in twice to repair the spotty LCD. And I would buy another Apple product in a heartbeat. Actually I did, I got an ipod.
I wouldn’t buy the first generation of the product. But that is true for a lot of things like cars, etc.
And I am thinking of buying the iMac G5 for our home PC. Replacing my athlon box with it.
BTW, IBM recalled 533,000 power supplies recently. Dell recalled batteries too.
the imac uses mid to large lcds
prices are falling quickly and are expected to do so
will apple lower the price to its end users or will they pocket the difference? they arent even shipping yet so they should lower the price right?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18249
“Large size LCD monitor prices crash
And there’s more falling to come
By INQUIRER staff: Friday 03 September 2004, 09:21
Advert
LACK OF DEMAND, over supply and huge stocks of product in the channel mean prices of large sized LCD pannels fell more than expected in August, research firm iSuppli said.
That, according to a report from the firm, meant a “near time headache” for suppliers but could mean bargains for buyers.
The LCD panels used in desktop PC monitors fell the most, said iSuppli in a report to its customers, meaning prices for 15-inch and 17-inch panels fell by around 18 to 19 per cent last month.
Despite hopes that sales of LCD TVs would pick up because of the Olympic Games last month, the reality was that sales were slow. And sales of LCD monitors appeared to be just as slow.
Some desktop monitor firms have begun slashing prices on 15-inch and 17-inch LCD monitors already – there are stocks in the distribution panel getting dusty.
The low end street price of a 17-inch desktop PC monitor was $350 by the end of August, said iSuppli. Fifteen inch products at the low end were $300. However, there’s still resistance to slashing prices across the board.
The market research firm preducted that by October the average price of 15-inch panels could fall by another 10 to 15 per cent, and that will eventually be reflected in street sales.
Prices for LCD TV units are also set to fall to a more realistic level for the average consumer. µ”
well most price comparisons that i have read in this thread is almost completly useless. they dont compare the same type of machines. if i would buy the imac it would be for the reassons that its really small i would only need one cabel to it to get it running. i mean a small machine with wireless lan bluethoot keyboard and the machine and the monitor in the same unit it could be any more simpel. i know of alot of student friends that would want this since they have really small apartments and a big fulltower with separate monitor just takes more place. if i where to compare it to something the closest i could think of is small shuttle pcs or laptops.
if you want to compare towers compare it to the powermac.
will apple lower the price to its end users or will they pocket the difference? they arent even shipping yet so they should lower the price right?
As a business if the price of my raw material drops it means more profit margins. Apple is a the business. More profits could mean better R&D budgets, more bonuses and salaries. Leading to happier employees.
Happier employees means better products in the future. Which could benefit endusers more. Not to mention Profits mean happier share holders.
Weren’t you the one a while ago were giving Apple a hard time about share holder value, revenue and profits?
Things are not always black and white, don’t be immature.
your response is a resounding NO.
apple will not lower prices. or least it is very unlikely.
other makers will however lower prices to please clients and to sell more computers.