With its low cost, growing catalogue of desktop software, and backing from business, Linux could finally pry the PC market from Microsoft’s grasp.
An Alternative to Windows
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
“Another group ripe for migration to the Linux desktop is corporate employees who use their office computers for just one or two tasks throughout the day.”
If you work in a job which fits this statement, I’d worry about a lot more that the cost of your desktop software.
If Linux is so much better than MS Windows, why aren’t they running it?
IE, Word, Excel, and Outlook.
Only four things that ever get booted on most executives’ computers.
That graph looks exponential.
This is a decent article, compared to the recent rash of similar “how Microsoft is starting to take Linux seriously” pieces. Still, it has factual errors that wouldn’t be there if the author was really a follower of GNU/Linux evolution.
For example, when Linus (apparently) created the Linux kernel to be faster and for streamlined than Windows or AT&T UNIX. Linux was created to be a Minix clone for 386/AT computers. I don’t think comparisons to AT&T UNIX or (gasp) Windows were anywhere on the radar when Linus started the kernel project. Remember the Usenet post where Linus described the kernel project as “not big and professional like GNU”?
However, I really liked the allusion to the fact that not all Open Source supporters are as cocky and combative at Eric S. Raymond. He represents the faction of the OSS community that was excited about the MyDoom variant that was programmed to DDOS http://www.sco.com. People like ESR are the reason this site has the Report Abuse button. I would really prefer if OSI would stop giving him access to the press.
All of these `MS Windows vs. Linux’ articles are a joke, old and boring. I have more fun counting the pixels on my screen.
Perhaps 10 years in the IT world has made me jaded, but I’ve gotten so tired of reading these, “someday Linux may be ready for the desktop” articles. They all follow a basic template:
1) author has recent, brief experience with some flavor of Linux which leads to
2) Generalized speculation about its utility in the business world which generally includes
3) Some sort of graph showing future Linux market penetration from Crystal Ball Consultants, Inc. which a growth curve is extrapolated and/or (in this case) greatly exaggerated
And I’m really not trying to be sarcastic or snotty when I ask this, but what is the point of adding one more of these articles to the great heap that has already been written? It’s articles like these that create the feeling (for me at least) that Linux is overhyped: anemic growth trends extrapolated exponentially; talk of worried Microsoft executives, casual encounters with softwares (linux and windows both) leading to grand assumptions like that the two are equivalent. It would be like the author going to Wal-mart and buying a landmower, and then speculating that the gardening and landscape industry was doomed because people could now do their own yardwork.
The internet bubble is over. You can’t make a living with empty speculation any more. It would be a lot more interesting and helpful to read something in depth, something that concentrated on _how_ a company moved to Linux rather than this nonsense about what all companies might be doing in 2006.
Just my 2 cents.
http://www.circuitcity.com/bundledetail.jsp?OID=95 328&bdlid=708
why would anyone buy that weak machine from walmart (the one in the article for $278 doesnt include a monitor or printer and the specs are way below the following) when they can have this–
for $449 this week
(as an aside a virtually identical machine to this is available every week or two by emachines for just $349)
Compaq Presario Desktop PC with Intel® Celeron® D 325 Processor CPQ SR1110NX
Samsung 17″ Flat-Screen CRT Monitor
HP Deskjet Color Inkjet Printer HP DJ3650
that pc includes:
Specification
Compaq Presario Desktop PC with Intel® Celeron® D 325 Processor
Warranty:Months
Labor/Parts 12/12
Item Height in Inches 15.3
Item Width in Inches 7.2
Item Depth in Inches 16.5
Weight 30 lbs.
Processor Brand Intel®
Processor Type Celeron®
Processor Speed 2.53GHz
Frontside Bus Speed (MHz) 533
Level 2 Cache (KB) 256KB
RAM (MB) 256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
System RAM Expandable To (MB): 2GB
Hard Drive Maximum Capacity 40GB Ultra DMA
CD-ROM Drive No
CD-RW Drive Yes
DVD-ROM Drive Shared with CD-RW drive
DVD-RW or DVD+RW Drive N/A
Maximum Optical Drive Speeds DVD-ROM 16x, CD-RW 48x write, 32x rewrite, 48x read
Drive Bays Available One 3.5” (external), one 5.25” (external)
Total Expansion Slots 3 PCI
Available Expansion Slots 2 PCI
Keyboard Compaq standard
Pointing Device Compaq scroller
USB Ports 6 USB 2.0 (2 front/4 rear)
IEEE 1394 Port 0
Parallel Port 0
Serial Port 0
Other Ports Mic/headphone/line-in
Video Memory Up to 64MB (shared)
3D Graphics Support Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics
Modem V.92-ready data/fax
Network Interface Card (NIC) Yes
Audio Card Integrated audio
Speaker Type N/A
Speakers Included In Box? No
Operating System and Vendor Utility Software Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Productivity Software Included Microsoft® Works 7.0, Office 2003 Trial (60-day Student/Teacher), Norton Antivirus 2004 (60 days updates), Norton Personal Firewall 2003 (60 days updates), Money Standard 2004, Quicken New User Ed., Encarta Plus, Adobe Reader 6.0, InterMute Web Protection
Internet Software Included AOL® dial-up (trial)/Broadband trial, MSN dial-up (trial)/Premium (trial), Earthlink dial-up (trial), PeoplePC Online dial-up (trial)/MaxSpeed (trial)
Educational/Entertainment Software Included Apple iTunes for Windows®, InterVideo WinDVD SE player, Sonic RecordNow, RealPlayer, Adobe Photoshop Album Starter Ed., WildTangent GameChannel (10-game preview)
Xandros is far superior to XP. The file manager is the best of any OS, and I even run Adobe Photoshop under the crossover plugin.
But most important(haha), freecell actually works correctly!!! I’ve always hated the microsoft version where, when moving a large stack, it moves all but one !@#$%ing card. FIX IT, YOU IDIOTS! Just kinda gives me the feeling that everything in the OS is as half-assed as freecell. And those huge idiot-pandering icons in XP makes me feel like I’m being treated like a 2 year old.
Man, you hit the nail right on the head.
>The file manager is the best of any OS
It seems you have not tried DirectoryOpus…
Speaking of ones own experiences with Linux is a way to start an article, nothing more. It’s a writing technique, not what the whole article is based on.
get a better pc and monitor and printer with windows
http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-5113197.html?tag=nefd_top
“update America Online confirmed Thursday that it is offering a $299 bundle of PC, 17-inch monitor and color printer to subscribers who sign up for its Internet service for one year–its latest effort to prop up its subscriber base.
The Internet service provider launched a Web site, 299pcdeal.com, to promote the offer, which runs through Dec. 31.
The “new AOL Optimized PC” is built by Systemax, a Port Washington, N.Y.-based PC maker. It includes a 1.7GHz Intel Celeron processor, 256MB of RAM and a 40GB hard drive. They come preloaded with Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition and Sun Microsystem’s StarOffice software.”
folks may have legitimate reasons to use linux, but a $278 pc at walmart is no deal by a long shot.
So one year of AOL doesn’t cost anything????
The reason people would buy a $278 computer vs your listed $449 computer is simple. The $171 difference. May not seem like much, but it’s a huge increase in cost to people who are barely able to pay the bills. The Celeron processor of the Compaq is essentially the same as the Duron, although I will give you the 2.53 GHz of the Celeron is better than the 1.6 GHz of the Duron. Despite the processor speed and memory installed, a lot of people will still buy on price.
Almost all of the software you listed were either 60-day trials or demos which will just end up costing them more money if they sign up. Kind of blows the budget PC strategy. The software with Linspire (personally I’d pick the Mandrake edition if I had to go cheap) is full-featured and permanent. And of the buyer wanted to run Windows, which I’ll admit is more often than not, it’s really easy to get a copy of 98SE or ME that’s legal at no cost. Hell, I myself have a copy of 3.11, 95 Upgrade, 95, and ME sitting on a shelf at home doing nothing. Not to mention office suites, games, anti-virus, Quicken…
would be in need of isp service no matter what they bought wouldnt they? if not, dont buy a pc that requires an isp commitment.
im no fan of aol, but they remain the biggest and many people still on 56k like them.
Probably, but there are cheaper alternatives to AOL.
“The reason people would buy a $278 computer vs your listed $449 computer is simple. The $171 difference.”
the walmart pc at $278 doesnt include a monitor or printer.
a 17″ monitor and basic inkjet can be had for $171 for sure, but then you still wind up with a much better pc.
and as i pointed out, emachines has an nearly identically specced machine that big retailers in the USA sell for $349 on sale. the compaq is $100 more just for the name.
Not everyone who buys a Wal-Mart PC is a first-time buyer. They already may have a decent monitor, printer etc. They might be looking at it from the standpoint of uprading their PC every couple of years.
Hello
I have read many articles that sway both ways on this topic. I have come to believe that no matter what OS you have you are still kind of locked in.
Linux Bonus:
+ Customizable
+ Fast
+ Secure (depends on who you talk to)
+ Assortment of programs
+ Various Flavours
+ Cost of Ownership
Windows Bonus:
+ Administrator Friendly / User Friendly
+ Fast, but depends on system
+ Secure, but depends on the user / admin
+ Ton of Programs
+ Driver and Application Support.
+ Comes bundled with a computer.
Now don’t start to complain about things I missed, but one reason why Windows will stay dominate for a little while longer is because of Games, and their relation to Direct X.. I am aware that Tramsgaming has a product to emulate the windows API’s so get the majority of games to work, but only when the game developers start to release versions of their software in both Windows and Linux format, will the true competition really start. I’m not saying that GAMES are all that windows has going for it, but to be honest with you User at home want something that is easy, managable, and well dumb simple, and people in the linux community are failing to see simplicity. (excluding Linspire, lycrosis, Xandros, and other versions of Linux.)
“Almost all of the software you listed were either 60-day trials or demos which will just end up costing them more money if they sign up. Kind of blows the budget PC strategy.”
it has full license to windows xp home
full license to:
Microsoft® Works 7.0
Money Standard 2004
Quicken New User Ed.
Encarta Plus
Adobe Reader 6.0
InterMute Web Protection
Apple iTunes for Windows®
InterVideo WinDVD SE player
Sonic RecordNow
RealPlayer
Adobe Photoshop Album Starter Ed
and of all that free software that runs on linux, much of it likewise runs on windows too.
want openoffice on windows, sure.
want a webserver on xp home cause you dont have xp pro, apache runs on windows.
filezilla, opensource ftp client….
opensource and free software abounds on windows as well. let us not forget this.
lots of very good commercial software is free on windows too.
need free antivirus? get it here: http://www.my-etrust.com/microsoft/
free firwall there or in xp or from zonelabs
free download managers
free browsers
free compression utilities……….
“It isn’t going to happen for a long time, if ever.”
You know, if this were around 1998 you might have a point. But since Linux has a marketshare around the same as the Mac, how can you STILL be making this claim? People around the globe are using Linux as a desktop, but you still think it’s not ready. It’s you who needs to give the FUD a rest.
I thought it was going to be a review of those cheap microtel boxes. I’d actually like to know how they run when you turn them on
.
But instead it’s another rant about linux on the desktop. The rant’s pointless. It’s happening, it works, quit whining and tell us how the computer you paid $278 for was.
Bravo.
Excellent response, and my feelings exactly.
“The Celeron processor of the Compaq is essentially the same as the Duron, although I will give you the 2.53 GHz of the Celeron is better than the 1.6 GHz of the Duron.”
It isn’t. The Duron is faster and cheaper.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.html?i=1927
is that review is from last december and is an older model celeron.
the above pc is a celeron D, which is a new cpu. 533mhz bus instead of 400mhz….not sure how it compares but it should be faster on bus speed alone.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2139&p=1
sempron review but has new celeron d models and the duron 1.6 in the review.
the 2.53ghz celeron D beats the duron 1.6ghz in every single benchmark.
Those warlmart pcs are in deserate need on an update. They are pretty much the same systems that where being sold a year ago. A year ago they were cheap, now they have sunk to being average.
I agree that the $278 figure from Walmart is not the best price out there, but it is a fair price. Critical to having the box be a good value is whether further hidden costs are contained.
With the $450 dollar machine you get a good bundle, with the exception of Microsoft Works. It is very under-powered, and is notorious for not being able to produce, or read files that anyone else can use. Second, I wonder about Quicken’s “New User Edition.” Money, I hear, either nags or outright requires a Passport account, a major security risk. I wonder about the usability of Adobe’s Photo Album software.
On the hardware end, I would not want the HP printer, as it fleeces you for ink costs.
On the Walmart side, there is the issue of Linspire, which pushes you to subscribe to the Click ‘n Run Warehouse. I suppose a knowledgeable person could opt for APT right off, but the semi-clued in might not know this.
Of course, if I were to purchase either box, I would likely start by wiping the hard drive, thus avoiding the free trials, the crippleware, and possible spyware on the one hand, and avoiding Click ‘n Run on the other.
With either machine, there are additional hardware costs. For either, I would buy another 512 meg. SIMM. In addition, I would likely need speakers.
Put it this way, if I wanted something cheap and rotgut, I would go with the same Walmart machine, minus Linspire for $228, or maybe get it without the CD-ROM for $168, and slap in a DVD combo drive.
Finally, there is the issue of service after the sale, if something went wrong. Compaq has developed quite a reputation for poor quality and horrible service over the years. Anyone know how Walmart stacks up?
I think you have a good point. From what I see on forums Winex/Cedega still cannot run many of the windows games out there at all. And a large number of windows users are the gamers, simply because of it’s gaming stronghold. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when/if gaming companies start considering linux ports.
I hate windows. Despite windows reign on the server end coming to a close the battle for the desktop has just begun. The only reasons that Linux hasn’t taken over years ago is fear, laziness, or an un-natural love for M$.
I understand that companies can be ” vested” in windows but change is gradual. If you never start you’ll never change.
-nX
I should point out that the issue of games is irrelevant to PCs at this price point. For higher end machines sporting a decent graphics card, the issue of more games for Windows makes sense. We aren’t talking about such a machine, however. Staring us in the face is Walmart’s basic Microtel box with semi-OK 2D graphics, lower end CPUs, and a power supply that would die if you were to try a high end GPU. We’re talking basic box, here, and in this genre, Linux has the advantage.
Come to think of it, Linux just might have an advantage in games. There are a ton of them out there for Linux, few of them very demanding, and some of them quite good, — perfect for the rotgut boxes being discussed.
nope. ebay runs win2k3/IIS 6.0.
i am not a linux guru, but is linspire taken seriously in the *nix world?
“I agree that the $278 figure from Walmart is not the best price out there, but it is a fair price. Critical to having the box be a good value is whether further hidden costs are contained.”
the walmart box has no printer or monitor. it has no dvd player or cd burner. add all that to the bottom line.
all cheap inkjets are ripoff for ink are they not? who amongst any of the big makers like hp, lexmark, canon, epson etc has much better on printing costs?
your method of buying a pc to format the hard drive and then remove or start adding components is not what the average user can handle or much less wants to do.
128mb ram on the walmart is not sufficient. 256mb on the compaq or emachines is sufficient. not ideal but sufficient.
with windows you also get many years of support outside what you will get from the pc maker…pc maker gives you one yr of support usually, but ms supports windows for at least 5 yrs…and in many cases well beyond that.
ms continually offers updates and enhancements for free via download and makes some of it available via a cd that is shipped free.
yes id agree circuit city is terrible for warranty support as is compaq, hp, and emachines. i cannot imagine that a pc that cheap sold by retailer, walmart, known for its lack of service would be any better though.
here is the pc and it also requires a shipping cost on top of paying sales tax.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2592740&cat=8…
Microtel computers are not a low price because they carry the Linux os, It’s because of thier system requirements that they are so low.. Walmart sells the same desktop that ships with linspire, with no OS for 100 $ cheap, and thats not the only low cost Walmart has, the have a Linare computer (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2686072&cat=1…)
for even a lower price. I would have to say, these machines would be great for the Home user that is not looking for performance, other a means of surf the net, point click, no worry about virus.
Any computer guru knows that if you want a computer to live up to your expectations, you have 2 options…
1: Build your box
2: Buy from good Source.
For you happy go lucky people out there, Walmart is not a good source.! So in the end,
You Get what you pay for.
For those of you who say that Linux is insecure I want an explanation. When was the last time a Linux worm spread through the ‘net?
All systems, except maybe OpenBSD, are insecure when a human is attacking it. But very few are insecure when automated attacks are programmed because most protect against these types of simple attacks. Windows, unfortunately, wasn’t designed with security in mind. I think when they designed it they had money on the brain. But because of its security problems it has become a lot more secure lately. And when we stop seeing Windows-based worms hammering our ‘nets we can finally say it is secure, but not until then.
Until then Linux is more secure than Windows because there are an order of magnitude fewer automated exploits. The same can be said of OSX, BSD, Solaris, BeOS, and virtually any other OS because Windows has 90% of the market share. When these things change perhaps those other OSs will be more vulnerable.
When was the last time you saw an OSX or Linux anti-virus software advertisement on TV?
Sure Windows can be secure, if you update it daily and run a firewall, av software, and take other precautions to maintain your illusion of security. On other OSs security is not this big of a concern.
Did he count Linux servers too? Anyway, this is something
I take a rather different attitude toward computers than the poster named “anonymous.”
I agree that Walmart should bundle a burner. I agree also that 256 meg. is better than 128. Bundling a monitor is less useful to people who have a monitor. Bundling a printer like the HP 3650 is a deal breaker. Want to save s lot of money, get a cheap laser printer. Want to print in color and save some money, get a Canon. The more that is bundled, the less choice one has, and the more expensive it will be in the long run.
On the support issue. I have had experience with various companies’ tech support, and found them wanting. Most especially, I have found Microsoft’s support unacceptable. Delaying patches to known, critical problems for months to over a year is not just bad, it’s negligent. Linux has a far better track record.
Circuit City is where I would go during the first couple of weeks if the machine died. After that, one has to rely on Compaq support, which again and again has been rated as one of the worst companies for reliability and support in an already bad industry. You have to work hard to be that bad in an industry where most companies are racing for the bottom. My question is, does Walmart do it any better? I don’t know; that’s why I asked.
When it comes to recommending a cheap machine to someone, I frankly must take into account any support I might be called on to give. To save money, the user will have to download firewall software and a free anti-virus program. Then they will need to go off-line and uninstall the trial-ware provided. Then they will need to install SP2, or at least all of the security patches for XP and IE.
Compare this with booting a Mepis disk, using its automatic install, and coming up with a more secure system, complete with decent software, no need for anti-virus software, and all with minimal user input. On top of that, future updates can come from the Debian repository on an automated, weekly basis (we are talking REAL support here). I don’t mind supporting such a system.
So, if someone asks me what to get, I would specify just the bare ($168) Microtel box. Add 512 meg. of RAM, a cheap, or used laser printer, any cheap 17″ monitor, and a DVD combo drive. I would offer to help put it together, and supply the Linux disk.
what do you charge for all that, or are you wealthy and do this as a service to those in need?
cause with free support from you including consultaion, machine build, and configuration, the linux box is looking better and better….
Would someone provide a link to those great deals at Circuit City because I for one couldn’t find them. There’s a Compaq Presario for $429.00 after the 50 buck mail in rebate (good luck with that) monitor and speakers SOLD SEPERATELY!
Then the eMachines Desktop PC with Intel® Celeron® Processor 2.53GHz for $399.00 again after 50 buck mail in rebate. Also Monitor SOLD SEPERATELY.
OK I see a package deal that includes the printer and monitor is in fact $719.27 out of pocket minus $270.00 in mail in rebates (whenever)for total $449.00.
Despite windows reign on the server end coming to a close
Wow. I never knew windows reigned on the server. I always thought it was the big iron. There are a lot of file and print servers in offices that run windows but they have by no means “reigned” on the server, ever.
From apple.com:
eMac from $799
iMac from $1299
PowerMac from $1999
Kinda puts it in perspective, doesn’t it?
I don’t understand why people think that Windows will reign for a long time to come because of games. Most people don’t game. Maybe the scores of teenagers that visit this site do but most people don’t. Most people use the internet and email and that’s about it. They may play freecell or minesweeper in their spare time but those are available for Linux.
Gamers aren’t the biggest market in PC sales and it’s easy to see that they are not. Just compare the sales of low end machines with high end machines required for gaming. Why is it that you can find a dozen or so different low to mid range models at your local electronics store but you only see a couple of high end machines that are capable of playing the newest games? Because it is only a niche market. Despite what gamers think, their demands do not drive the market for computer sales.
I have learned to get rather hard nosed on my Windows support. On the Linux side, calls for slow machines, spyware removal, virus disinfecting, registry cleaning don’t happen, so I can be more generous up front. If a person buys this hypothetical Compaq and gets no knowledgeable support from folks like you or me, he or she will stuck buying Microsoft Office, and two Symantec products. With any luck, both Intuit and Microsoft will snare extra money from Quicken and Encarta sales. Again, that’s if they don’t get support.
If they get support from the likes of you, or me, it will be advice to get OpenOffice, Sygate, Antivir, and the like. “Where do I get it from?” “What’s a high speed connection?” “What do I do when I download it?” “My computer doesn’t work (conflict between Antivir and Norton Anti-virus).” “How do you ‘uninstall’?” And finally: “This is all too complicated; why can’t they just give me a machine without hassles.” At this point, do you say you don’t do support? I might.
Or, I might explain that the Compaq is a machine full of “gotchas,” and that I knew of a solution where one didn’t have to deal with that stuff.
Canon ink may cost less. However the printer uses the ink faster. Canon uses water based ink (bubblejet). HP uses oil based ink (ink jet). I’ve had both. I replace my ink once per year with the HP. Canon, I replaced once every three months.
No, gaming isn’t everything, but gamers are prevalent enough not to be ignored. Just because gamers don’t represent the larger percentage of users out there doesn’t mean they should be overlooked by linux or any other OS if that is what you’re proposing. The fact is, a large number of windows users are in fact gamers. I am one of them, as I am sure many others who visit this site are. Guess who will surely stick to windows if there are no other options for hardcore, up to the minute gaming?
Why is it that you can find a dozen or so different low to mid range models at your local electronics store but you only see a couple of high end machines that are capable of playing the newest games? Because it is only a niche market. Despite what gamers think, their demands do not drive the market for computer sales.
I disagree with this. Many of those low- to mid-range models can in fact play many of the newest games out there. Many of those boxes are stocked with Geforce 4 level cards from what I have seen, which are still capable of dealing with the many games that are available today, including some of the newest ones. Besides that, many gamers build from the ground up or buy from the boutiques, who largely cater to the gamers/enthusiasts. Those gamers/enthusiasts do drive the market for Alienware, Voodoo, Falcon Northwest, ABS, etc. computer sales, in addition to Dell and the other big boys. Many times in the past they have offered “gaming” packages, and are still probably doing so.
I would say gamers represent a significant number of the user base and computer sales.
I agree 100%. I run CAD software that *might* run under Wine in Linux, but why do that to save $200 on the OS when the sofwtare I run every day costs over $10,000?
~$600 for OS and MS Office is nothing, we pay more than that per year, per seat for maintainence of of our CAD software.
You’ve completely missed the point. Alienware, Falcon Northwest, are, as you said – boutiques.
It takes a lot of GeForce cards and copies of Doom3 to equal one corporate purchase of fifty desktops, associated server hardware, licenses, specialist/custom software, and support.
You can argue all you want about gamers pushing the envelope, being big influences in the industry, and a whole bunch of other crap… but at the end of the day, you will almost certainly find that more money is spent on corporate and generic home-user IT than on games.
I don’t understand why people think that Windows will reign for a long time to come because of games. Most people don’t game.
Very true, but if people are going to go out doing surveys on computer use then “Gaming” is going to be ticked far more often than “Porn”.
So, what? Ignore the gamers? Just because we don’t match up in numbers to the corporate buyers? No, gaming isn’t everything, but not to be ignored is all I’m saying. Doom 3 and it’s exploitation of current and future hardware wouldn’t be available if all the “crap” about gamers wasn’t true.
Also, we’re talking about linux as an alternative to Windows, here. It is not and will not be a viable alternative for hardcore gamers unless it can match or better Windows title for title and feature for feature, period.
Someone commented on the graph looking exponential – that’s because they graph to 2003, then put on representing 2006 in there.
I don’t think anyone can predict when Linux will reach 10% market share, but when it does, I’m thinking that’ll be a turning point. It’s growth and growing position will convince software vendors that it’s worth supporting – and that increased support will feed the growth. My guess is that 10% is the magic number.
It seems you have not tried DirectoryOpus…
I have, and I find Konqueror much more useful, personally.
No, gaming isn’t everything, but gamers are prevalent enough not to be ignored. Just because gamers don’t represent the larger percentage of users out there doesn’t mean they should be overlooked by linux or any other OS if that is what you’re proposing.
I agree. I don’t think they should be overlooked at all. I think it is valuable to get games on Linux.
The fact is, a large number of windows users are in fact gamers. I am one of them, as I am sure many others who visit this site are. Guess who will surely stick to windows if there are no other options for hardcore, up to the minute gaming.
This is the part that I don’t agree with. I deal with a large number of computer users everyday and I can assure you the vast majority of them don’t game at all.
I disagree with this. Many of those low- to mid-range models can in fact play many of the newest games out there. Many of those boxes are stocked with Geforce 4 level cards from what I have seen, which are still capable of dealing with the many games that are available today, including some of the newest ones.
Not true. Walk into a CompUSA tomorrow and look what they have and watch what people buy. First of all more and more people are buying laptops these days and most laptops are not suitable to play games on unless you have a very high end one. Second, almost all low end machines have Intel Graphics chips, and most of them are shared memory. Others are VIA, which are just as bad. You don’t even get a decent card these days unless you buy a $800-1000 tower, without a monitor. Most people don’t buy these.
Did you happen to note that “Wildtangent” is pre-installed on your system? Please do a search on it and you will see why various people prefer OpenSource software. Just my 2 cents.
I would agree that hardcore gamers (I would consider myself one) are not the biggest sector in the PC market overall but I would also argue that we are a significant part of the home PC market.
What gamers do bring is pushing hardware development, which will filter into the business arena. Gamers buy the high spec machines and encourage manufactures to improve their products.
So what you have is part of the PC Market that will probably not go over to Linux even if they would like to, because of the game support. I’m lucky in that I can run a second box for Linux and have the best of both worlds
Lets talk about support required.
When it comes to recommending a cheap machine to someone, I frankly must take into account any support I might be called on to give.
You mean, during the life of the computer, right? If you help your friend with new computer, it takes few hours to set it propery, doesn’t matter what OS.
To save money, the user will have to download firewall software and a free anti-virus program.
Firewall software is more than adequate in Windows XP. As for anti-virus, why can’t you burn it on CD and give it to your friend?
Then they will need to go off-line and uninstall the trial-ware provided.
What has off-line to do with software uninstallation???
Besides, user can just ignore trial-ware. If it annoys them very much, just delete icons on desktop.
Then they will need to install SP2, or at least all of the security patches for XP and IE.
Same goes to Linux. If your Linux distro CD is at least a month old, how many patches do you miss?
Do you think that computer you buy in the store, with preinstaleld Linux, will have latest patches?
Compare this with booting a Mepis disk
For underpowered computer as one offered by the Wal-Mart, it’ll take long, long time to install Linux on hard drive, configure, and customize software for user needs.
On top of that, future updates can come from the Debian repository on an automated, weekly basis (we are talking REAL support here).
You must be new to Automatic Windows Updates that Windows users enjoyed for many years. For free.
I don’t mind supporting such a system.
I don’t mind supporting Windows.
Lets make a deal: if I have problem with Debian, instead of bashing it I’ll ask you or guys like for help.
You, in turn, instead of bashing Windows, ask people like me for help with it.
Deal?
My brother bought a $239.00 Microtel-Linspire from Tigerdirect. I had 256 MB of RAM lying around and an old GForce 440(I paid $19 for it), I put those in his box. The Microtel Machine is surprisingly not weird, cheap-ass hardware, but standard stuff. It even has a Linmodem, though he is on cable. It had a AGP 4x for the Gforce I put in it. He thought Linspire sucked so I put straight Debian Unstable on it for him. Now he has a vast world of software at his fingertips. He knows how to apt-get what he wants and can use Synaptic. On top of that he is now playing Doom III under winex (Cedega 4.01….and yes it runs perfectly and at 20 – 30 fps 800×600 low detail which still looks great). For what he paid he has an excellant setup that would even satisfy most average gamers(due to Cedega). There is no way he could have owned a computer otherwise as he is on disability for chronic nerve damage. Thanks to Microtel and Linux he has a first class setup. If even Doom III runs on it I say that the Duron in it is fast enough for nearly any normal person.
I honestly don’t know the answer to these questions, please fill me in: Currently I’m a HD installed knoppix user (going to move onto Kanotix this weekend [looking forward to better fonts, 2.6.7 driver enhancements & ALSA .])
What is the opensource linux equivalent to MS Project? The engineering company I work for wouldn’t function without it.
What is the opensource linux equivalent to Multisim or Cadence electronic simulation/schematic capture software?
(While I love PCBExpress [windows only so far] for making quick test fixtures, its schematic capture tools are very basic.) I’ve heard of gEDA, but has anyone developed a commercial product with it? (is it mature or still in academic stages?)
What is the opensource linux equivalent to Visual Basic? Is there some tool available for rapid application development, (no not that IT axiom, I mean, my boss tells me to develop a GUI program that reads serial/parallel port sensors over time, records the data in excel and graphs the results–In VB 6 I can do this easily.)
“What is the opensource linux equivalent to Visual Basic?”
Phoenix Basic is a VB clone and it is free, but a better alternative is the commercial version of Kylix which is the Linux version of Delphi. If your company wants to open source their apps (should be no biggie for most small companies) they can use Kylix for free.
Linux will never become as big as Windows until the decide to get there fingers out of there a$$es and make it easier for the typical computer idiot. People don’t want to have to put this text here and there. The want to be able to click “Next” and have it do it for them. Redhat has the RPM files which are nice. Also most Distros make it unbarably hard for computer idiots to install linux. Like Gentoo, Slackware, ECT… Yeah there are easy to install Linux distros like Mandrake 10 and Fedora Core 2 but to the person that only knows how to turn there computer on and jump on AOL and get there Email, There not even going to know what a Swap Partition is. There are so many people that haven’t even heard of Linux that when you say it to them they think your speaking Russian and another reason of why people don’t want to switch is that more then half the games arn’t able to be played on Linux and just as good on Linux as it is Windows. People that make Linux need to relise that with most people when someone says Kernal they don’t think of computers they think of popcorn and need to make it more computer idiot proof then what they have now. I do like Linux. Hell I’m using Fedora Core 2 right now and this is comming from a Linux n00b, but to most people arn’t computer programers, network admins, and computer hardware techs so they won’t know what they hell most the stuff that linux is talking about.
The issue isn’t about the one-time, or few-times fixed costs of hardware. The issue is, what is life with Linux going to be like? It is viable for inexperienced users–which may sound strange as Linux is considered a geek’s OS.
But there is no SOFTWARE for it. The range is limited, and the depth of what is covered does not compare to Windows. I wish it weren’t so. I loath Gates, but he is in a league by himself–because of his wealth–and I realized that my “political statement” of swtiching to Linux is meaningless to MS, but hurts me.
My computer uses a Winmodem. To get it running on any distro I would consider (Xandros, Suse, Mandrake) I need to buy a $20 driver for it–the modem cost $17.
I want a full disk encryption program for my laptop. Google research did not turn up any viable program for me, something that can be installed and learned how to use without simultaneously having to learn how to mess with Linux command lines, etc. Some security programs are pending for Linux, but that reminds of the old Mac problem I had, wiating for the latest version of asoftware for Mac, which often came a year or more after the Windows version.
It will take ONE Linux company–maybe Xandros or Suse, or Sun to solve most of these problems quickly: hardware, software, updating (everything, anything). Leaving it to the “community” is a piecemeal solution. Linux is still not in shape to stand up to Windows. Because it’s not about the OS–you shouldn’t even NOTCIE the OS (until it gives you trouble) it’s about everything else that has to do with your computer(get a) life.
Now if only Apple would try and compete in the budget PC market. If they could sell a decent Mac for under $500 they would make a fortune.
What do you think Linspire, Lycoris, Xandros, and Mandrake are trying to do?
1. Customer build your own system. As long as you have the skill and willingness to build your own system you can get parts you want at lower price than purchasing a turnkey system.
2. Purchase a turnkey (all in one) system. Distributors of Linux based systems are not just low cost models from Wal-Mart but also distributors such as IBM, HP, Linux Voodoo, Dell, etc. You can find Linux preinstalled on laptops, mobile workstations, desktops, workstations servers. Linux has been seen by the film and I.T. industry as being the lowest cost solution and more efficient for cluster networks compared to what is offered by Microsoft, Apple or even Irix and Unix based systems.
3. Install a Linux OS on one machine or across an entire network at lower TCO than Windows. You can even if you so choose install Linux on Apple based PPC systems which are even supported by Apple such as Yellow Dog Linux. Distributions such as SuSE Linux support a variety of processors including the new EMT64 processors by Intel which is more than what Microsoft can say for their Windows XP 64-bit. The point is you can install the software on current hardware. Considering Linux is better at memory management and less likely to fragment a hard drive you have extended the life span of your system. Oh and if you are really stuck you can install Linux on game console systems such as XBOX to play both your games and run it as a base level computer http://www.xbox-linux.org/
4. You have a piece of must have Windows software not ported to Linux? Simply run it on Wine which stands for (Wine Is Not Emulation). It’s freely distributed with most distributions or you can purchase one of the commercial versions of Wine which offer extended support ideal for businesses. http://winehq.com/
5. Game play not an option on Linux? Well considering most games are played on consoles (XBOX, PS2, Nintendo) and not on a PC this is really not a concern for most consumers. Though there are options such as using the free version of Wine I mentioned already or purchasing Cedega (formally called WineX) that offers support. See “Games on Linux” here http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75640
6. Linux limits you on software? Obviously people that say this have not done their research. Linux distributions for come with a large assortment of software which will get users started. With most Linux distributions you get more software included at lower cost than Microsoft offers with their OS or even what comes preinstalled on most Windows turnkey systems purchased by consumers. Is every piece of software run on Linux only open source? The answer is no as you can either purchase commercial software ported to Linux or choose to run open source software even in your commercial oriented network. For an idea of what software studios and artists use on Linux as well as software used by others see this link http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53452
“But there is no SOFTWARE for it”
Install Debian then open up Synaptic…then you will see you are VERY wrong. There are over 10,000 software titles in the Debian repository.
My computer uses a Winmodem. To get it running on any distro I would consider (Xandros, Suse, Mandrake) I need to buy a $20 driver for it–the modem cost $17.
—-
how about buying a real modem for $20?
Only here in the States is there this pathological fear of Linux and Open Source. Around the world it’s spreading fast, but here we get the same “Windows is the default, therefore it must be perfect and nobody will ever change” tired argument over and over again.
But even stranger, the relevance of the title of this thread to this forum. This is supposed to be a website for finding out about various OSes, but yet here it is at least 2/3 Windows and Mac users who wouldn’t dream of using any other OS because it’s too complex, it’s too scary, it’s too much work, it takes too much time, it’s too geekish, it doesn’t run my games (boo!hoo!), it’s too…so and so forth. Why do people even come to this website if they’ve no curiousity whatsoever about other operating systems? Can anybody tell me that? Eugenia?
Guess what? Walmart are selling a PC with Linux pre-installed! Hold the front page!
Oh, wait everyone’s already known this for ABOUT A MONTH.
The trolls have taken over the editing of this website.
from the latest of his emails:
“Perhaps it’s time for Microsoft to consider a Linux product of their own?”
Not very likely, perhaps but could be food for thought….
You missed the overall point of my message, which was that Windows takes more effort to maintain AND set up. That is because of the high probability of infection from spyware, viruses, and from overly aggressive apps that install needless items that run in the background.
I also argued that installing a Linux distribution like Mepis takes less time that setting up Windows properly. I argue this from experience, having done both.
As for the adequacy of the Windows firewall, it isn’t. I have not tested the basic XP firewall, but I hear two things: It does no checking for outbound traffic, and this remains partly true for the SP2 firewall. Second, the original XP firewall loads late in the boot process, leaving the machine unprotected for a couple of minutes.
I mentioned going off-line to uninstall some of the trialware, because the Norton firewall is one of the trialware items to be uninstalled. One could activate the XP firewall, but new machines, like the Compaq may have spyware or adware installed. To get an idea of what may be installed on a new Windows machine, try this:
http://www.sysinfo.org/startuplist.php?filter=hp+
Some of the list is printer related (and HP’s printer drivers are a bit too aggressive for my liking) but some, like the “hp center,” “HP Component Manager,” “HP Info Express,” “HP Instant Support,” and “HP software update” concern me. On a Compaq search, there are additional items like: “BackWeb,” and “Compaq Message Server.”
I agree that it is good to keep any OS updated, likewise any software you run on it. Here, linux has the advantage, particularly Debian based systems. You get easy to automate access to the repositories needed, and it covers most everything. Windows has nothing like this built in, and those services that are available (like Windows Update) compromise privacy.
On the overall issue of OS security, Linux has the edge, especially if you don’t update. Windows XP can and will be infected within hours, possibly within minutes of going online. I have worked a lot with Knoppix, Libranet, and Mepis (my experience with Red Hat, Mandrake, and Suse is too old to be valid), and Mepis is the best, with an active firewall on installation with sensible rules. Libranet makes the firewall easy to activate, and leaves no servers exposed to the Internet. Knoppix requires more work. A Mepis install will be relatively secure, long term for a desktop user.
Regarding the complaint that the Walmart equipment is too weak, leading to unacceptably long setup times, I have done Linux installs on much slower machines (Pentium II 300, anyone?), and I can say a full install takes about a half hour.
As for bashing not bashing Windows, no deal. I bash specific things, and will bash them as long as they are not remedied. These include:
1) a great environment for spyware, viruses, Trojans, and other malware
2) piss poor support for security updates
3) the inclusion of potential spyware on new machines (like on the Compaq in question
4) poorly structured OS for security, leading to automatic infection for out of the box machines connected to the Internet
In fairness to Microsoft, some of this may change as SP2 becomes more established, and the bugs get worked out.
For underpowered computer as one offered by the Wal-Mart, it’ll take long, long time to install Linux on hard drive, configure, and customize software for user needs.
Linux is already installed and set up on the Wal-Mart machines. In any case, installing Linspire takes about a third of the time it comes to install Windows (about 10 minutes).
Lets make a deal: if I have problem with Debian, instead of bashing it I’ll ask you or guys like for help.
You, in turn, instead of bashing Windows, ask people like me for help with it.
People don’t bash Windows because they have a problem with it (well, except for Windows users, that is). What we don’t like is Microsoft’s monopoly, and how it unfairly uses that monopoly to crush its competitors. Can you help us with that problem?
Yeah there are easy to install Linux distros like Mandrake 10 and Fedora Core 2 but to the person that only knows how to turn there computer on and jump on AOL and get there Email, There not even going to know what a Swap Partition is.
If you choose “novice” install on Mandrake, you don’t need to know what a Swap Partition is.
Installing Mandrake 10 is quicker and easier than installing Windows. Period.
I agree. Linux is a success here in Brazil between technical and IT people. M$ is still #1 only because lazzy and ignorant users remain addicted by your pirated copies of Windows. Apple here must be #4 platform because we see much more Sun Sparcs than Apples.
Re zixq:
“But there is no SOFTWARE for it”
Install Debian then open up Synaptic…then you will see you are VERY wrong. There are over 10,000 software titles in the Debian repository.
Thanks for the reply. I wasn’t very clear, I mentioned the <depth> of software, that is, quality, degree of evolution. In music, for ex, Linix is so far behind Windows or Mac it’s not even a contest. I am aware of all major Linux music programs. They are good, but, well, behind the times.
I know there are more than enough Linux word processors, and utilities, and even DVD editors. You are right about that. Please let me know if there is an “out of the box” full disk encryption program, such as Drivecrypt, or CompuSec (free for Win, Linux “pending”) for Linux. I don’t think so, but I hope I’m wrong.
To Anonymous: thanks for the suggestion about buying a real modem. I wish I had originally done that, but in those days, when I built my computer, I didn’t even know what a “Winmodem” was. The money isn’t an issue, but in principle, if I were to pay 60 or 70 $ for a Linux distro–and I WANT to pay for one–and then 20 more for a modem just to get it running, I’d be paying more than for XP home OEM, which is currently 70$ w shipping.
The irony about security software, BTW, is that Windos OS is totally insecure, and violates privacy, but the best encryption and privacy software–for home users, not server admin.– is written for it.
You are right about that. Please let me know if there is an “out of the box” full disk encryption program, such as Drivecrypt, or CompuSec (free for Win, Linux “pending”) for Linux. I don’t think so, but I hope I’m wrong.
Well, you can use something like TCFS, Cryptoloop, Dmcrypt, StegFS, EncFS and many many many other alternatives. Cryptoloop and Dmcrypt are both in the 2.6 kernel however Cryptoloop is deprecated. Dmcrypt is its succesor. The other 3 are (old) kernel patches. For individual non-on-the-fly files one could use GPG.
However i’d like to stress that when you use such software you really need to know what you’re doing. Else it is a disaster:
* If you do not know what you’re doing you can fuck it up. If you forget the password it is dataloss. If you don’t use a journaling FS, well, you can be fried as well. But if you write down the password on paper then anybody who has that paper knows the password. If you chose a weak password (your dogs name) then that is a weak link in your security mechanism. How about swap?
* If you don’t understand what the software exactly does internally how do you know wether you’re secure or not? Arguably, one needs the source for that (not possible with the examples of software you provide).
The irony about security software, BTW, is that Windos OS is totally insecure, and violates privacy, but the best encryption and privacy software–for home users, not server admin.– is written for it.
Uhm. Well, i consider “encryption and privacy software” to be part of the security of my system so if Windows has such and they work good then i wouldn’t call it “totally insecure” but ofcourse wouldn’t call it “secure” or “extremely secure” either. Because such depends on other aspects.
Anyway, one thing. Some people think they’re somehow secure when they’re using NTFS its EFS (Encrypted File System). They’re wrong, because the Administrator of the computer has access to the EFS no matter what. Now, the question is:
How easy is it for $HUMAN to get local (Admin) access to the computer via the following ways:
* Unauthorized remote user -> Unauthortized Admin
* Unauthorized remote user -> Unauthorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Authorized remote user -> Unauthorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Authorized remote user -> Authorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Unauthorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Authorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Unauthorized physical user -> Unauthorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
* Authorized physical user -> Authorized local user -> Unauthorized Admin
I can assure you that one with physical access to a Windows computer can easily get Admin access via a Live CD or Floppy. In such case the data on the EFS partition is not secret anymore. And that’s a shame.
When someone cracks into your Linux server, becomes root, and the encrypted partition is mounted, then you’re fried. That’s true. Same for Windows. Bad security IMO btw. Anyway, one with physical access and who becomes root, and starts the computer up has a problem when normal precautions have been taken (see above for some). One with physical access without user account cannot crack the computer except remotely from a different computer. Hope that the security of Linux stands. Same for local access whenb file permissions are okay. The real difference is that if the partition ain’t mounted -it only should when data is to be written or read from the encrypted partition- then one with Root (Admin) doesn’t got jackpot automagically. The same counts for physical access and there is the HUGE difference between the various Linux (+ the BSDs) solutions and Windows standard out-of-box EFS which feels more secure than it actually is. If you ask me, its a trojan horse. I can’t speak for the other software you listed, but i ain’t touching porprietary software designed for my security with a 10 pole feet. Because, you know, they keep the internals and the source and the way it works internal which means few people know how it works. And that opens interesting possibilities for “unexpected” backdoors.
And ofcourse you only use the Alpha systems from the NSA, because those are thrustworthy ;^)