Quite frankly, I got fed up with my Windows XP. Everything was wrong with it – security, stability, and price. So, I took a new step in my computer experience and tried going Linux. My only previous experience having been using and FTP Wizard to upload files to a web host, I could definitely be put into the “newbie” category.
I compared three so called “distros” of Linux (Suse 9.1 Pro, Fedora Core 2, and Mandrake 10). Mandrake didn’t appeal to me (though I’m sure its a fine OS) so I started off with Suse. After having fun with that I erased that part of my hard drive and reinstalled over it with Fedora. Here is my comparison:
Installation
The first thing that should be considered is also the first thing to happen, installation. I didn’t have the patience or interest in paying for cd’s so I chose the ftp install (Suse) and the download install (Fedora). The actual download part took place at different times so basically I will put the timing issue this way: Suse asks you which packages to download and ended up taking 2 hours on my DSL line. Fedora has you download all four cd’s (I only ended up needing three). I used torrent to get these files and it took me six hours to download all 2.7 gigs.
Once the installation got going, both were easy and I could sit back and relax (except for changing cd’s on Fedora). I’d say the actual install part took less than 45 minutes on my Athlon 1.6 gig. processor. All in all, I was pleasantly surprised to find both were easier and quicker to install than Windows (and didn’t require near the number of reboots).
Then I just had to restart. Both versions had the same, simple, boot manager which was very straightforward. A simple login and I was having my first experience with Linux!
Desktop Configuration
Although they are each capable of using both KDE and Gnome desktops, each showed a preference based on the distro. Suse is clearly a KDE designed version (it took me an hour to figure out how to get to Gnome). Unfortunately, it has neglected Gnome a little and so KDE is much more stable. Likewise, Fedora came default with Gnome (like Suse you had to choose to install the other). Even though I chose to install KDE on Fedora, I’m so pleased with Gnome I haven’t experimented with it yet.
KDE was a little intimidating when it first loaded in Suse. Highly polished and colorful, it was clearly an experience for my eyes. Soon enough, I managed to get used to it. Gnome on Fedora came out less polished and colorful, but certainly looked more clean and organized.
The main panel at the bottom in KDE vaguely reminded me of Mac OS X. Gnome’s panel was easier to work with, though it lacked one feature I had come to like in Suse’s KDE – a recently launched applications section.
Software and Configuration
Basically, I had the same programs installed on Suse and Fedora, so the variety wasn’t all that different. The main difference was the control panel.
Honestly, Suse’s control panel, YaST, was a pleasure to work with. Everything was in one location, and was at max two clicks away from wherever you were. Fedora’s was disappointing. Options and modules all one click away in YaST were a confusing menu’s exploration to find in Fedora.
The package (program) management and update utilities were even more disappointing in Fedora. Whereas Suse could easily update or install a package, Fedora took forever and sometimes stopped working. Fedora’s up2date started out good; it had a little panel display showing you needed an update. Soon it became a disaster. It became buggy and stopped working. In the time it took to figure out Fedora’s working YUM (an update manager based on command lines), Suse could have installed and updated everything and anything.
Overall Use and Applications
Suse was a breeze to learn and Fedora was about the same. Clear navigation on menus in both was refreshing. The only main problem was in file management.
Suse was a mess. I couldn’t find half the files I needed most of the time. When I would install a package I couldn’t figure out it’s location. Worst of all, the way Apache was installed (files all over), required me to remove it and install it from scratch. While Fedora was also more confusing than Windows, it was certainly easier than Suse.
The only complaint with Linux was hardware compatibility. I went through two LAN cards to get it recognized. Worse, none of the 3 Canon Printers nor the Samsung Laser was supported by either distribution. Another down point is its lack of ample audio/video support and tools
I imagine all of this will be improved soon with all the recent investments in Linux.
Conclusion
If you are sick of Windows, either of these make a great choice as a second OS. Don’t completely get rid of XP quite yet, give Linux some more time to perfect. Personally, I’m sticking to Fedora, but when Suse 9.2 (or whatever comes next) and Fedora Core 3 arrive, you can bet I will be trying both.
Meanwhile, Suse 9.1 and Fedora Core 2 are good options. If you want something polished and centralized go for Suse. On the other hand, if a little exploring and learning is in your mind worth gaining more stability go for Fedora Core 2.
To sum up, I have found operating systems offer a good analogy to cars. You can go with your shiny, sleek sportscar (in this case Suse), but that doesn’t mean its easy to drive. Or, you can opt for a more simple and sensible midsize (Fedora) that easy to operate but doesn’t have the flashiest looks or features. Of course, it all beats a classified-ad used car (Windows) which makes you pray every mile that it won’t completely break down.
Fedora – http://fedora.redhat.com
Suse – http://www.suse.com/
About the Author:
Zach Levin is a fed-up-with-Windows high school student in California. A web designer and computer enthusiast, he spends alot of time on the computer. Currently he is working on a new open source web script (an invoice manager).
If you would like to see your thoughts or experiences with technology published, please consider writing an article for OSNews.
One subtle difference here, also, is that SuSE 9.1 Professional is a pay-for distro, whereas Fedora Core 2 isn’t. Maybe the freely-downloadable SuSE 9.1 Personal Edition (yes, a free non-live-eval ISO download from SuSE – wonders will never cease!) would have been a better comparison (clue: Fedora Core 2 wins easily vs. the Personal Edition because the latter is waay too stripped down and lacks, well, almost everything including GNOME, compilers and a lot more).
Agreed. If you want to write an article, here are two useful tips:
1) Details. If you want to compare two distros, just talking about the install process is NOT enough.
2) 2 and a half paragraphs talking about the acual experiance tells us alot about how much experiance you had using them…
Jesus, you spent more time talking about downloading the blasted things than what they were like!
Thanks Zach for a good review that points out the problems you had without any random bashing that these kinds of articles often contain.
Suse was a mess. I couldn’t find half the files I needed most of the time. When I would install a package I couldn’t figure out it’s location. Worst of all, the way Apache was installed (files all over), required me to remove it and install it from scratch. While Fedora was also more confusing than Windows, it was certainly easier than Suse.
Could you elaborate on this point? What files did you have trouble finding? You will find that most software for linux is installed, as you say, with “files all over”. This annoyed me at first too, but you quickly realize that it doesn’t matter where it is.
If you have installed a new application and it doesn’t show up in the menus, try typing the name of the application in the Run dialog. If you got the name right, Linux will find the application and run it. Alternately, open a terminal window and try typing the first couple letters of the name and hitting tab. That will give you a list of available programs that start with those letters. You can also try using the command:
appropos something
Where “something” is a word that relates to the application you just installed.
I went through two LAN cards to get it recognized. Worse, none of the 3 Canon Printers nor the Samsung Laser was supported by either distribution. Another down point is its lack of ample audio/video support and tools
I’m surprised you had trouble with your LAN cards. Support for those is excellent in Linux and in my experience better than in Windows. Could you post the manufacturer and model of the LAN cards that didn’t work as well as the printers? Perhaps we can help you get them working.
For a good audio tool, try installing Audacity but I don’t really know what kind of work you want to do.
Hope your problems are resolved the next time around. It took me at least 4 tries to find something that I liked better than Windows.
Instead of learninging how to use Linux, why not spend a little time learning how to properly secure Windows XP? I am by no means a computer expert but even I was able to get Windows XP secured fairly well. I regularly use Outlook and IE and my website is running on IIS 5. The only “hack” I’ve ever experienced was when I accidentally left my FTP site open to anonymous connections (oops). After removing anonymous FTP access and deleting the files left behind by software pirates I have not had any other problems since. I regularly run Norton AV, my system sits behind a MS MN-700 Firewall/Router, and I am careful to not download anything willy nilly off the net or open strange looking e-mails.
I’m guessing that this is a Linxu astroturfing piece though. This guy isn’t really a newbie, he’s just writing fromt that perspective to make it look like Linux us easy to use.
yum install package name
you’re right, that is hard.
Anywho. If you wanted to have your article sound like you knew not so much about computers you did a good job. People who have been using windows all thier lives for web, email, papers and games, really don’t care about details. I am hoping you wrote this article for them.
Always cracks me up when people make statements like “Quite frankly, I got fed up with my Windows XP.” If you are fed up with XP, Linux is defintely not for you. I use XP daily and in my opinion it is by far the best OS for home users like myself. If the author wanted to be taken seriously he should not spout out tired old FUD lines like “Everything was wrong with it – security, stability, and price.” not a very well thought out article.
Yupp, it is hard. You have to know what the package name is before doing it…
“Everything was wrong with it – security, stability, and price.” not a very well thought out article.
You have to admit that security is not a string point of XP (millions of viruses and worms on Windows, plus tens of security holes found in IE per month).
Stability: XP is still not as stable as Linux. better than Xin9X, but still not good enough.
Price: Win more expensive to buy than a pro version of Linux. And despite Microsoft’s FUD, Windows requires much more staff to maintain (in a corporation) than Linux does.
But hey I use both Win and Linux.
@xhargh
Yupp, it is hard. You have to know what the package name is before doing it…
Not true.
yum search keyword
> is that SuSE 9.1 Professional is a pay-for distro,
Wrong, the FTP edition is free.
One subtle difference here, also, is that SuSE 9.1 Professional is a pay-for distro, whereas Fedora Core 2 isn’t.
SuSE 9.1 Professional is available via ftp-install – no need to pay for it. And you can even use the Personal ISO and later add packages of the Professional version to your install. It’s easy 😉
If you are fed up with XP, Linux is defintely not for you.
Odd.. When I get fed up with my XP install, I hop over to my Linux install, and feel right at home hacking away at the my Linux projects…
But that can’t possibly be! According to you I’m too dumb to use Linux since I get fed up with XP.
Choose your words a little more wisely
Worse, none of the 3 Canon Printers nor the Samsung Laser was supported by either distribution.
Samsung laser printers have excellent support in Linux — because printers come with their own CUPS driver. You just need to mount the installation CD and run the GUI installation program. This works in any Linux distro that has X and CUPS installed.
Suse asks you which packages to download and ended up taking 2 hours on my DSL line. Fedora has you download all four cd’s (I only ended up needing three).
Note that you can of course also do a FTP/HTTP install with Fedora, in which case you only download the 4MB boot.iso and expand it to a CD or USB memory device and boot from it. While doing a FTP install of SuSE is different from doing a DVD or CD install (i.e. you’ve got to manually configure your network card first), the Fedora FTP install is exactly the same as when installing from CD and in my opinion superior to SuSE’s.
My network is running SuSE Linux as I gave up on the ever increasing cost of using Windows and Red Hat is no longer appealing to me. Anyway, if you want to resolve the video codec issue in SuSE Linux see this link ( http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87247 ). As for the article it was severely lacking any real detail for a software review.
Just what is an open source web script? A web app or something?
Linux is being so widely used, discussed, and embraced these days. This really has been a great year for Linux! 2005 will be even greater. Keep the discussions open, because Linux will only thrive from it. Forget #2, let’s go for #1!
You have to admit that security is not a string point of XP (millions of viruses and worms on Windows, plus tens of security holes found in IE per month).
Perhaps. Their security cannot really be compared though until they are equal targets.
Stability: XP is still not as stable as Linux. better than Xin9X, but still not good enough.
Actually neither the linux *kernel* nor the windows 2k/XP kernels have ever crashed for me.
Application stability is where they really differ now. Windows applications tend to be fairly good, but crash in more annoying ways than in linux. For example, explorer crashing is usually more fatal than, say nautilus crashing.
Linux application stability on the other hand isn’t so good. I currently use GNOME (it looks better than KDE :-), but I’m going to change to KDE simply because of the number of “$APP has exited unexpectedly …” (ie segfault). This is highly likely to be because almost all gnome apps are written in C, and people don’t check for null pointers well enough. They also tend to handle pathalogical file badly. For example. Nautilus often crashes when generating thumbnails for some files. gpdf crashes when loading/displaying some pdfs. And mplayer can’t even handle playing empty files (well, it loads some XMMS plugins for no apparent reason – See below).
Price: Win more expensive to buy than a pro version of Linux.
True.
And despite Microsoft’s FUD, Windows requires much more staff to maintain (in a corporation) than Linux does.
Probably true, depending on the size/requirements of the corporation.
And another annoyance with linux. How often does microsoft release a new kernel? How often does linux release a new kernel? And how many kernel security flaws have there been in Win2k/XP compared to linux.
Linux really needs to allow binary driver modules that can be used on any of the same major kernel version.
….
$ touch foo && mplayer foo
MPlayer 1.0pre5-3.3.3 (C) 2000-2004 MPlayer Team
<snip>
Playing foo.
Cache fill: 0.00% (0 bytes) XMMS: found plugin: libwav.so (Wave Player 1.2.10)
XMMS: found plugin: libmikmod.so (MikMod Player 1.2.10)
XMMS: found plugin: libxmms-flac.so (Reference FLAC Player v1.1.0)
XMMS: found plugin: libcdaudio.so (CD Audio Player 1.2.10)
XMMS: found plugin: libtonegen.so (Tone Generator 1.2.10)
XMMS: Closing plugin /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libtonegen.so
XMMS: Closing plugin /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libcdaudio.so
XMMS: Closing plugin /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libxmms-flac.so
XMMS: Closing plugin /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libmikmod.so
XMMS: Closing plugin /usr/lib/xmms/Input/libwav.so
Exiting… (End of file)
Whhhhyyy? mplayer has nothing to do with XMMS… It makes no sense whatsoever.
SUSE 9.1pro should atleast detect my keyboard well. It does not! Using YAST when I configure it, it changes back to some crappy keyboard where keys are interchanged, on every reboot.
Driverloader does not work with SUSE 9.1 atleast onmy laptop and iwc2000 drivers for intel centrino wirless does not work on it either! No suspend/Resume utility out of the box!!
And they call it professional!!!
Disappointed
Quite frankly, I got fed up with my Windows XP. Everything was wrong with it – security, stability, and price.
Security might be a point but if you have a firewall installed, anti virus installed and Mozilla installed for web browsing and email then security isn’t much of a problem in Windows.
Windows and Linux distros are about as stable as eachother.
Price is your weakest point. You’ve paid for Windows already. Installing an other OS over it won’t get your money back.
Honestly, the only good reasons to use Linux are it’s free (in all senses of the word) and it’s very customisable.
I’d like to see an article about Linux on POWER because I want to get away from x86.
To sum up, I have found operating systems offer a good analogy to cars. You can go with your shiny, sleek sportscar (in this case Suse), but that doesn’t mean its easy to drive. Or, you can opt for a more simple and sensible midsize (Fedora) that easy to operate but doesn’t have the flashiest looks or features. Of course, it all beats a classified-ad used car (Windows) which makes you pray every mile that it won’t completely break down.
Of course if you can’t drive at all…….
I don’t have a problem with people not liking Windows but if your going to say your sick of it you should at least give details, if only to give your statement some credibilty.
“You have to admit that security is not a string point of XP (millions of viruses and worms on Windows, plus tens of security holes found in IE per month).”
Depends. 99% of the viruses and worms are due to IE and Outlook/OE. If you choose to run a better browser and just about any other mail client, then Windows XP is secure enough with a firewall.
“Stability: XP is still not as stable as Linux. better than Xin9X, but still not good enough.”
Hmm. Seems stable enough to me – I only reboot my XP desktop to update it. It’s probably related to the choice of applications that I run.
I’m also running Windows and Linux – the right tool for the right job, I say!
“Honestly, the only good reasons to use Linux are it’s free (in all senses of the word) and it’s very customisable. ”
I agree with most of your points, but here I think you’re not understanding. Some of us ENJOY working with Gnome or KDE better than Windows. Some us actually enjoy the apps that come with Linux distros rather than having to go and buy apps or look for freeware that that doesn’t have spyware. True, alot of Open Source apps are rough around the edges, but frankly some of still prefer them to Windows compatible apps. Totem over WMP, Grip over WinAmp, etc. People are always making it sound like using Linux is a horribly painful experience. Maybe for some, but not for those who are willing to learn how to make it work. Especialy on older and slower machines where the choice would have been between Windows 98 and Linux.
For the record, I have slow download speeds and have always had to pay for Linux distros, but I feel it’s money well spent.
Look it was my first time writing an article of this nature and I’m sorry to those finding it unacceptable.
Now at least I know what i need to do / don’t for the future…to answer questions:
1. My Linksys wouldn’t be deteced on Suse’s FTP Install
2. Suse was an FTP Install
3. I did get my printer working after much effort.
Thanks,
Zach Levin
Can someone write in-depth comparisons between linux distributions ? I am kinda tired reading “newbie this” and “newbie that” headlines. I am assuming most of the readers are already aware about basic differences between Linux distributions.
I would personally take most of these comments with a grain of salt; if you spend enough time reading the things people write in response to ANY article (no matter how mundane a topic) you’d get the impression that a lot of the posters have nothing better to do than complain and NOTHING is ever good enough. Don’t be too hard on yourself; I personally liked the article. It wasn’t meant to be a feature-for-feature review, and I recognized that. Bravo on putting your voice out there.
Eugina’s is that your alter-ego? :^)
/me wonders.
I’ve installed Debian lots of times, but it was the first time I’ve tried out the new Sarge installer. Impressions:
Debian – the new installer presumably is going to be more robust and flexible, but so far it seems to be as newbie-scaring as the old one. Once the base system was in, it was pretty easy for me (Debian user for three years) to use apt-get to upgrade the system and install everything I wanted, but I’m not sure how easy a rookie would find it – some reading is required. Also, Debian’s make-kpkg kernel builder is a great time saver. The one snag I’ve hit with the second system is that the kernel in Sarge doesn’t support my cheap USB lan adaptor, at least not “out of the box”, so I haven’t been able to access the Debian archives just yet.
XP – is it just me, or has Microsoft added a raft of new Wizards, dialogues, “My Blah Blah” folders and the like in attempt to make things seem simpler and more automated for novices? The interface seems almost perversely obfuscated. They really seem to be trying to hide the directory structure from the user, which I found annoying. Anyway, it seems to be very stable and obviously has outstanding device support. It’s really for my wife – I just use Debian.
Check this link below for playing videos in Linux, it’s applicable to other distros. I used it as a guide, and was able to play DVDs, Quicktime movies, DivX and others:
http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/
It’s too bad Core 2 is so damned slow; otherwise, I’d probably use it instead of SuSe 9.1. I don’t know what they’re doing but, between Red Hat and the GNOME development people, they’re managing to put together a fine kludge of a bloated desktop manager in GNOME.
If anyone tries Core 3 Final and finds a substantial improvement speed-wise (and I think I speak for everyone when I say we don’t want hype here, just an honest response, please), then please: write a review so we’ll know!
As a poster said, don’t bother to read other comments are most of them serve no purpose to get a constructive argument. I am glad you give a summary for the new people who migrate from Windows XP so they can give a try to both Suse 9.1 and Fedora Cor 2. Kee a good work.
I keep trying different distros on my spare machine, but I keep coming back to Mandrake. I am curious why Mandrake did not appeal and therefore was left off the comparison.
Yum is very very hard to use.
Especially with yumGUI (http://cobind.com/yumgui.html), a GUI to control YUM.
You see all the available packages, already installed packages and upgradable packages, and you install, remove and upgrade them just with clicks, no commands.
Very very very hard to use …
Nice program (yumGUI) – I’m going to give it a try sometime. Might be handy for my tablet, seeing as typing with the on-screen keyboard is a pain in the neck.
Getting a touch bit off topic, but does anyone know of a downloadable tablet distro? Lycoris is, unfortunately, not available.
-Erwos
Same old crap. Windows user tries Linux. Windows user likes the novelty factor. Windows user tries to compile app xxx that doesn’t exist in a repo. Windows user realises Linux sucks. Windows user goes back to a decent OS.
wow. Great Osnews.
I’ll confirm his experience with problems updating Fedora.
First, there’s no reason to imagine that someone new to Linux would know the names of packages. So, snarky remarks about “yum install package_name” are out of place.
Second, Fedora’s mirrors, in my experience, are basket cases. I live less than 20 miles from both ibiblio and RedHat’s headquarters. Still, yum has timed out on me many times trying to pull files from a comatose server. Yes, you can select another mirror. But, SUSE lets you pick one with a drop down list. (And we should not assume everyone knows what a “mirror” is in the first place.)
imho, this is done on purpose so that you can buy their enterprise desktop. the only mirror that truly sucks is the one there by default.
I resent strongly all the YUM references.
I found it eventually … but first spent an hour trying to get Up2Date to work.
God peope … you’re so picky. Its a simple review for simple users.
Don’t make my job so difficult!
I enjoyed reading your artical, could do with some more indepth comparisons and details but over all good effort.
As to the nay-sayers… there too lazy to write there own, just like i am.
When I was using YUM, I found that during download it would hang up and I constantly had to do a <ctrl>-C to get it to redownload again … aside from that fc2 is sweet.
You can point Yast to Suse’s FTP’s and you’ll have *all* the same (expect non-free apps) packages in use that are in professional edition!
So just install personal, later on add apps you need from suse’s ftp. Same packages as in Professional edition, not including non-free stuff only.
I’ve never seen Linux not pick up a keyboard, never in over 7 years of using it. I’ll take a guess that it’s a wireless keyboard? If so, don’t bitch about Linux, bitch to the manufacturer of the keyboard to get off their lazy butts and write a Linux driver. Don’t blame Linux for crap hardware support from the original manufacturer.
Dave W Pastern
no david, it is my toshiba laptop on which I installed Suse 9.1 Pro! It is keyboard of this laptop only which even Red Hat 8 used to detect correctly but Suse 9.1 does not!
“Zach Levin is a fed-up-with-Windows high school student in California. ”
I bet you have never payed for XP (perhaps your parents did) and how often did you have to pay for it? You realise, you dont have to buy a new copy if you need to re-install it!
The whole article smells terrible, very much like the description of himself!
Come on OSNews, I cant remember articles being this bad ever….
Fedora runs fast enough on my P3/450MHz with 576 MB RAM. In fact it starts faster than Win98SE on the same box.
Have you turned off the services that start automatically, however you never need/use them? Fedora comes with far too many services turned on… execute ‘system-config-services’
Have you tried a different desktop? Look on CD#4 and install XFce 4 – it’s much faster, smaller memory usage and very user friendly. The available plugins are useful too, and the appearance can be customised easily. All you would have to do is create menu items for the applications you use frequently.
Was that a comparison between FC2 and Suse9.1 ?
It’s more like “oh I just tried those two distros but I can’t go into the details cause I know nothing and I have not planned any thorough analysis nor do I know where to start anyway so let’s make it just a page and not more just to get my name out there”.
Crap article.
Though not very informative, this article was somewhat interesting to read. Give the kid a break, he’s a high school student, and believe me when I say that I’ve seen worse from so-called “professional” writers.
I tend to agree that this article was comparing apples to oranges, though you could look at it from the perspective of, “Is it worth it to pay for a Linux distro such as SUSE when a free one can be had, as is the case with Fedora Core?” Unfortunately, the author does not provide enough information to make a well thought out decision. But that’s ok! Like I said, he’s a high school student, not a professional writer, and his thoughts and opinions (though perhaps not very well thought out or incomplete) should be just as welcome here as anyone else’s.
I have to wonder what was going on with his computer to cause Windows XP to behave so erratically. My experience with XP has been nothing but stability– the only instability I’ve encountered was not XP specific, it was due to the fact that my Presario 700 is a piece and then some. But we won’t go there, I have a blood pressure limit to maintain :0D And, since you Americans love disclaimers so much, I’ll indemnify myself from any FL4M3R A774X!!1 by stating that just because I’ve had a stable experience with XP does not mean that I believe that EVERYone will have the same experience. Individual experiences may vary. Buy my cereal.
I’m noticing a lot of “WELL XP BLOWS SO RAWX ON LINUX” and “NO UR SUX CUZ XP IS SO KEWLZ LOLS!!!11” commenting on here, and it’s interesting to see such a religious devotion to something as trivial as an operating system. I’ve said this countless times on here (probably four, but I said “countless” because it’s more kewlz), but for the sake of putting off downloading SP2, I’ll say it again. If Linux works well for you, then use it, and passively suggest its useage to others. If Windows works well for you, the same applies. To say to somebody that they’re idiots for using one or the other implies a high level of ignorance on the part of the accuser and does nothing more than to discredit himself and to leave a sour taste in the mouths of others towards the “prefered” OS.
’nuff said.
This guy writes a review from a n00b point of view for all the other n00bs around. He’s doing a huge favor for the community by giving his first (simple) impressions of his experience so that other people who never dared to install anything other than Microsoft OS would follow his and other’s lead and try something new.
As an alltime Microsoft user, ex BeOS user and short time Linux user, I agree with his review.
WindowsXP is bloated, buggy, insecure and overall S-L-O-W. That’s why I use Win2k.
If there was a native Linux version for my games, I’d ditch Windows a long time ago.
Even though Linux is still buggy, quite crude and in many issues still very un-intuitive, it’s much more enjoyable to use. Yes, an OS can be enjoyable. If you missed out BeOS, there are things you might never be able to understand. There is a ‘fun factor’ in the OS world.
As stated on previous posts in this thread, Linux as an OS is more stable than Microsoft OS, more secure and more fun.
At the same time, it’s sometimes as buggy if not more than Windows in some applications. *BUT* Linux doesn’t tend to lose your data or kill your stuff like windows does.
If not for legacy software and games, there isn’t an excuse to see Windows as *the* desktop OS.
sorry, I had got to the end of the article before I realised it was all over…
come on dude, tell us more.
one thing I picked up on nearly in the first line was the biggest mistake the guy made. He discounted Mandrake because he “did not think it was for him” hmmmm Mandrake 10 is probably the best distro aroubd.
try writing the article again, but include more details of the pros and cons and also give Mandrake 10 a go. Trust me, you will love it.
Anyone up for me writing an article about pros and cons of the different filesystem types and which ones you should try ?
“If not for legacy software and games, there isn’t an excuse to see Windows as *the* desktop OS.”
My girlfriend uses Windows exclusively, and uses MSN IM exclusively. If we want to video chat, I have to be using Windows with MSN IM, because to my knowledge there are no clients for Linux that will allow a user to video chat with people who are using MSN IM as their video chat client. Gnomemeeting doesn’t cut mustard for what I need.
You’re taking a personal and/or anectdotal situation and using it in the form of a poorly structured argument for Linux. As I said before, every person has their own unique needs, and you cannot tell them that one OS is better than the other. “Better” is a a term relative to each person’s opinion.
After 6 months of running Linux (Arch), I’ve tried Windows again and it seems so outdated. Long install times, poor stability (yes, I know it’s my experience, but damn!) and lack of easily available software make Win a pain.
I install Arch from FTP and have it all up and running, with all my needed and desired software, newest versions of the software pkgs, staring at a GUI in about 30 minutes.
Linux is enlightening.
“WindowsXP is bloated, buggy, insecure and overall S-L-O-W. That’s why I use Win2k.”
For me XP is alot faster then win2k ever was. Sure its bloated but not anymore than FC2. I held out on using XP for almost a year after it was released.I have had a few BSOD’s due to the fact that DELL couldn’t write a device driver to save their life. However i have never had a single security issue with XP/Microsoft Office. Just like any OS there are a few things you need to do to harden it up like anti-virus and a good hardware firewall(not a huge fan of direct internet connected machines running a software firewall)XP is made out to be an overly simple OS by alternate OS users yet why is it so many of these same people have such a hard time running XP?.
XP sucks less than W2k. I have to support both (plus W98) at work. All I can say for Windows is I’m sick of all the patches, secutiy updates and having to make sure that AV and the Firewall are up to date. It’s my job, they pay me to do it, so I do.
BeOS is very fast but there isn’t much to fun on it. Yes I know about BeBits. Most of the software is FreeWare or ShareWare and feels like it. BeProductive is OOOOLD and feels like it. I don’t need a lot of games but I want SOME current 3D graphic games. At least there is Quake and DOOM for BeOS but I need more than this.
Linux – I tried SuSE, Mandrake, and Redhat several times over the last five years. Each time I installed it and started using it the main thing that kept running through my mind was what a mess all the distros were. I don’t need 50 versions of each type of thing scattered all over the menus. I just need one decent and current program for each. LinSpire (at the time Lindows) was easily better than all of the previous mentioned ones. Note that I didn’t run as root. I liked it better than Windows because I wasn’t forced to any particular browser or any other program. And for $50 a year (I don’t mind paying for something I like. See below.) I think the Click-n-Run warehouse is a great deal with lots of good apps that don’t feel like freeware or shareware. By the time I found this I had already bought my iMac (below) and then a couple months later my power supply died on my PC. I’ve just never bothered to replace it as I used my iMac more than Lindows. BTW: Lindows patches are easier to pick and choose and install than XP patches. Meaning that I was always very SUSPICIOUS of quite a few of the patches MS wanted me to download. They try more and more to make me use IE and their other apps when I had no interest in them.
OS/2 was my favorite desktop OS (really good server OS too) for ten years. But then we are back to the lack of decent current wordprocessor etc (I’ve never cared for WordPro). And no current 3D games.
More out of “what’s left?” I turned to Apple to see what Mac OS X was like when 10.2 came out. It wasn’t (and isn’t) perfect but I liked it more than any of the above except OS/2 but then it does have current wordprocessors and 3D games. And NO I don’t need all the new 3D games. I just need a few so I’m more than satisfied with my choices. So I bought an iMac “lamp” and have been a lot happier
One of my BIG pet peeves with Linux in general is installing and if needed or wanted, uninstall apps in Linux (note that both are pretty easy in Lindows). Ok, installing apps has gotten a LOT better. But too often I have no idea where the icon for the App is put. Too often it isn’t put in a logical place and I have to go hunting for it. It is plain stupid to have to go to a command prompt to find the app. That’s like buying a new car and having to get out an engine crank to get the engine started. We’re in the 21st century now people! When I install an App an icon should be put in a logical folder in the menu. I’m guesing that the main problem is that each distro has a different menu structure so no app programmer can count on anything. As for uninstalling Apps, what a pain.
In Mac OS X you download the app, most of which automatically start the install process. When it’s done an icon appears in the Applications folder. I then just drag it to the Dock and run it from there after that. When I don’t need that app anymore (for whatever reason) I just go back to the applications folder, drag the app to the trashcan and it’s gone. Easy as falling down.
Again, LinSpire is the closest to Mac as far as ease of installs, finding the icons, and removing the app if you don’t want it anymore (because maybe I found a better app).
Windows? Sure it’s easy to install, find the icon, and remove it later. Or should I say remove 3/4s of it. Why doesn’t Remove App completely and utterly remove everything for that app except for any files I’ve created with it? It leaves a bunch of **** in the registry, doesn’t wipe out the directory structure it created, and doesn’t delete all of the DLLs that it put there that aren’t being used by another app. That, plus virses, and so on stated in my first post just above is why I don’t use Windows anymore than I have to.
i been using linux for 5 years and i still consider myself Newbie. just trying to make a point
happy hacking !
This is almost too funny. I posted a comment yesterday right before leaving work about my first experience with WinXP, saying it was rock stable but geared too much toward computer novices.
When I got home, the XP install on my daughter’s new computer was completely dead in the water. My wife said no one had touched that computer in the last day. When I tried to boot into XP (normal, safe mode, whatever) it crashed after a few seconds and restarted the machine. There were no problems at all with the Debian installation on the same machine. I was able to rescue the Windows installation with the XP install CD. This is hard to explain. I hope it isn’t an indication of things to come. At least I have Debian as an alternative.
Nope. How to get it there? DEVICE DRIVERS! And HW companies allowing said drivers to be included in the distros.
i find linux supports a greater range of hardware then windows. i bought a scanner off a guy who upgraded to windows xp for peanuts cause it didnt work in xp. works just fine with sane 😉
Hi, I´m running Windows since eight years, and was quite happy with them. With Wxp NEVER had any crash, neither on desktop nor on laptop. Last year I had a look on Linux, and was quite impressed. Right now on my desktop (Dell 8200 – derived system, 2GHz, 1024MB, Network, GeForce3-Ti64Mb, 2x120GB, Hauppauge WinTV, external Maxtor 160GB, external Plextor DVD/RW, scanner&printer) I´m running dual-boot system, WindowsXP+SuSe9.1. Did not have any serious problems with any of my hardware under Linux, and I really enjoy working on Linux (I have a lot of professional soft, which is for Windows, therefore complete migration to Linux was out of question). The problem I have is SPEED! My WindowsXP COMPLETELY boots in 50 seconds, while to boot Linux takes ages! I tried also Mandrake 10.1 – result was more-less the same. Perhaps the question is about unnecessary services, or what? Could somebody recommend me how to tweak the system? Or give some links about the tweeking of Linux? There´s a lot of that stuff for Windows, have done quite a lot myself.
I don’t really care if one is better than the other, but I know one fact, I used WinXP for more then a year and that was before all the virusses and worms hit, and now I’m using Linux for over a year. Personally I think that Linux is much easier to use than windows.
No, what really pisses me off are these trolls that post that linux isn’t good, but haven’t given any of the recent distro’s a try. Linux isn’t the hard to install, hard to use beast it used to be anymore. Open your eyes, step outside the Matrix, and after that decide if you want back in.
> I compared three so called “distros” of Linux (Suse 9.1 Pro, Fedora Core 2, and Mandrake 10). Mandrake didn’t appeal to me
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That was the only mention of Mandrake. What kind of comparison is that?
Don’t be surprised at a Canon printer not working, especially a bubblejet, Canon don’t authorise Linux drivers and you should check your hardware before buying to avoid surprises. My i320 is recognized as paperweight only in the Linux printer guide. I knew this before I started playing with Mandrake so I wasn’t fooled. I use W98SE and Mandrake 10 which suits me because I can transfer files between the two systems (e.g. use Mandrake to prepare a doc, then save it or copy it to a Windows partition to print it, rip audio files with Windows to play them on XMMS, download ISOs on Mozilla to burn them on Windows etc). With 500mHz of processor and 128mb of RAM I can’t even dream of using XP.
My Peabird LAN card was detected and configured with no effort by Linux (Mandrake, Debian, Knoppix and DSL) but Windows refuses to recognize the W98SE driver. It only works on W98 because the machine thinks the installation failed.
I have had keyboard problems with DSL and with Knoppix installed on the hard drive. I cannot configure the Internet connection because the config tool defaults to an English keyboard and mine is french (and the keys I need are changed). Doesn’t happen with Knoppix on live CD though.
I use Linux because I like it. If you don’t like it don’t use it (or develop it to suit yourself if you can). If you don’t like what is on your computer (domestic, not professional), switch it off, walk away and read a book (or play golf or talk to your partner etc). Don’t let the machine rule!
It is hard to compare the freely distro against a commercial package from SuSE.
I have tried almost all the distros out there that I can get my hands on. SuSE have come a long way to and so does Redhat Fedora Project.
Linux in general are for those that already have background experience. However, there are other Linux flavors out there try to make it as simple as it can be for the user… For example: take the Debian distro. Vendor like Linspire, Lycoris and Xandros are based on Debian package. They are designned for the beginner or user that wants an alternative to Windows where you are not plague with Viruses.
as you knew if you really read the article, he used the ftp-install of suse. just because there are no isos doesn’t mean you have to pay for it.