Novell plans to release its new corporate version of Linux for desktop computers this fall, the first product to merge technology from SuSE and Ximian that Novell acquired. The prototype was called Novell Linux Desktop (this may not be the final name) and it derives from SuSE’s codebase. The new desktop software uses the new Ximian Desktop version of GNOME, and it’s customized to work smoothly with Novell’s GroupWise server software for e-mail, calendars, contact lists and instant messaging.
Novell to Release Enhanced Business Desktop Linux in Fall
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Eugenia Loli
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> David, you are completely clueless about what
> is going on inside Novell.
I have close friends at Novell who I see everyday and I think that his view (while being somewhat harsh and pessimistic in regard to some facts) is more accurate and more balanced than the “rosy” Gnome promotion views you’d like to spread here.
> Companies, including my own,
As you have been a core Gnome evangelist and promoter for years this is hardly surprising …
> I know people running this right now.
They run whatever flavour of the NLD alphas suits them best. If they are Ximian people their “proposals” for the NLD will be completely Gnome centered of course. But there are also lots of other parties involved in the process of creating the NLD and as Chris Stone already stated just a few days ago the current versions are not even alpha yet (which means that there is lots of stuff, discussions and ideas flowing around but the final product will very probably look quite different).
> I know exactly what Novell’s Linux desktop plan
> is because they have made it extremely clear and open.
Sure. I’m quite convinced that you know the world domination wishes of the Ximian/Novell subsidiary in every detail by heart. Those wishes don’t represent those of Novell neither globally nor exclusively though.
Novell is currently quite carefully evaluating their options. Due to the fact that there is huge customer demand for KDE as well as Gnome they try to offer both as balanced as possible. Choice is a good thing.
> Novell Evolution, Abiword,
I’d hardly call those typical commercial applications. Evolution is a free groupware client which was created by core gnome developers. It’s not like there was a third party unrelated to the Gnome project which chose to use Gtk for their application just for its technical benefits.
And Abiword … well it was kind of commercial in the very beginning but .. you know .. how many paid full-time employees (which work on Abiword exclusively) does Abisource have these days?
> Netscape
… uses low-level Gtk-stuff only. In general they are using their own framework though.
> Yahoo Messenger
Last time I checked their developers planned to rewrite it using Qt …
RE: “Novell plans to release its new corporate version of Linux for desktop computers this fall, the first product to merge technology from SuSE and Ximian that Novell acquired. The prototype was called Novell Linux Desktop (this may not be the final name) and it derives from SuSE’s codebase. The new desktop software uses the new Ximian Desktop version of GNOME, and it’s customized to work smoothly with Novell’s GroupWise server software for e-mail, calendars, contact lists and instant messaging.”
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This i would like to see. i read somewhere that both IBM & Sun got an eye on Novell, between the two i would rather see IBM acquire Novell because Sun is more likely to put NovellSuSEXiman & et all… on a back burner & contine to push Solaris on Sun’s hardware.
i used to be a Redhat user till Redhat forked & FedoraCore was born, since i moved to Slackware full time.
Last time I checked their developers planned to rewrite it using Qt …
Link?
Meaningless. Enterprises pay for licenses for development.
Yeah, and one main goal of and enterprise is to reduce costs.
Which Qt license? Qt has three different licenses!
QPL is the one you quoted. GPL has no such restriction, and can have no such restrictions added.
Affects every version, read the license again.
Meaningless. What on Earth does connectivity actually mean in real terms?
Exchange, Gaim, clock calender, etc…
It won’t just showcase Gnome, as has been pointed out in the hundred or so posts on here. When I see it ship on a Suse distro, then we’ll see.
Thanks for taking my comment out of context and replying to my question in such a thoughtful way.
Anyway, having worked myself for Novell for about 2 1/2 years, I can say that they have the SuSE engineers, who are stout KDE people, and then you have the rest of the company, who want Gnome. Although the decision hasn’t been officially made yet to code everything for Gnome, it looks like the Gnome people are going to win and Gnome will indeed be the new SuSE desktop of choice.
Also, vaporware is not what you call unreleased software. It is what you call undeveloped software. Just because you can’t buy it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist; or is “vapor”.
Affects every version, read the license again.
The version of QT that is licensed under the GPL is the under the exact same GPL that every other GPL licensed software is under. Under that license, Trolltech, nor anyone else can add any further restrictions on usage, including restrictions on commercial use, regardless of what trolltech may claim. Trolltech may not endorse or support usage of the GPL version of QT in a “commercial” setting (and they are under no obligation to do so), but they cannot restrict its usage in any way that the GPL doesn’t already restrict, and the last time I checked, the GPL doesn’t exclude commercial usage. Granted, you won’t make much money selling software under the GPL, but you aren’t explicitly restricted from doing so.
but if you intend to make money off selling your program; gpl really kinda sucks. Especially if you intend to sell large numbers, like a license for 10,000 computers to corporation x.
Please note that I was referring to software internally developed at a company for internal use. This is not software intended for distribution or sale outside of the company (which is how a very large percentage of all software is developed).
They run whatever flavour of the NLD alphas suits them best. If they are Ximian people their “proposals” for the NLD will be completely Gnome centered of course. But there are also lots of other parties involved in the process of creating the NLD and as Chris Stone already stated just a few days ago the current versions are not even alpha yet (which means that there is lots of stuff, discussions and ideas flowing around but the final product will very probably look quite different).
Yes, it’s clear they are chewing through the motions internally on this. If I was at Novell/Suse I would be seriously displeased that someone tried to talk about an internal product release.
Sure. I’m quite convinced that you know the world domination wishes of the Ximian/Novell subsidiary in every detail by heart. Those wishes don’t represent those of Novell neither globally nor exclusively though.
Novell is currently quite carefully evaluating their options. Due to the fact that there is huge customer demand for KDE as well as Gnome they try to offer both as balanced as possible. Choice is a good thing.
You’ve explained that far better than I have. Thanks.
Thanks for taking my comment out of context and replying to my question in such a thoughtful way.
It reads like what it says. When it ships on a distro I can buy, then it won’t be vapourware. Surely, if you’ve been employed at a company like Novell you know that?
Anyway, having worked myself for Novell for about 2 1/2 years, I can say that they have the SuSE engineers, who are stout KDE people, and then you have the rest of the company, who want Gnome.
So has been said since about November last year
. I’m sure people at Novell will code for Gnome in various ways, but I warn you that no one outside of the general open source community will nor will Novell be able to afford to fund a great deal of in-house software development that is demanded for things like GTK etc. that has no direct ROI.
Although the decision hasn’t been officially made yet to code everything for Gnome, it looks like the Gnome people are going to win and Gnome will indeed be the new SuSE desktop of choice.
Why this aricle then, and why comments like Gnome applications do this and KDE applications don’t etc. etc? Sounds like they still have a lot of internal selling to do.
Also, vaporware is not what you call unreleased software. It is what you call undeveloped software. Just because you can’t buy it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist; or is “vapor”.
LOL! Vapourware is software that is much talked about that hasn’t been released and hasn’t had a release date in sight for a long time. We’ve had stuff like this for years now. How do I know it’s being developed? Because people have said things that haven’t materialised since last September?! Boy who cried wolf syndrome… You people make me laugh, you really do.
You just showed how completely clueless you are. Bravo!
Enterprises don’t care about central user-application-resource management, which is what kiosktool allows. Bullshit!
And KDE has more language bindings than Gnome and better integrated with KDE as well, which shows that you are talking out of your ass with no real first-hand knowledge. I hate it when ignoramuses like you try to imbue their propaganda with some air of legitimacy by pretending to know what they are talking about. God, how pathetic!
lol,
I could almost take offense-but you are not worth it. I certainly won’t lower myself to your level…I doubt you even understood what I was talking about….If you apologize and wish to have a civil conversation we might try again
have a nice day…
I could almost take offense-but you are not worth it. I certainly won’t lower myself to your level…I doubt you even understood what I was talking about….If you apologize and wish to have a civil conversation we might try again
Please don’t try and take the moral highground, because you don’t have it. This is what was being discussed:
The Kiosk functionality of KDE is not “enterprise” software-it is usefull, powerfull, impressive technology but basically meaningless in the “enterprise” world. Most of the really impressive KDE tehcnology is centered around administration and networking -two areas which are important to buisnesses but not particularly “enterprise”.
So an integrated and central management approach and technology for several thousand desktops is meaningless and not enterprise grade? Please don’t try and steal my words, because you don’t understand what is required here.
If you don’t understand why the above is necessary to an enterprise, don’t post.
It’s nice to know that you and Eu make a good couple
Just a little hint: Maybe you can learn to differentiate between “enterprise” and large corporations….(Ever wonder why no one refers to IBM as being an “enterprise” ?)
It reads like what it says.
Huh? My question, and the whole point of my post was to ask the KDE lovers out there what’s to love? You didn’t even muster up a small stab at responding to that, but instead hijacked a small segment of my post to make a point that still seems nebulous to me.
When it ships on a distro I can buy, then it won’t be vapourware. Surely, if you’ve been employed at a company like Novell you know that?
If you are going to throw around techie vernacular, you might want to familiarize yourself with what it means.
Vaporware is planned, but non-existant software. It is a stategic ploy to keep segments of the market from committing to a competetor’s existing product long enough for the perpetrator of said ploy to come up with a product of their own. A common result in the case of vaporware is that software is never written or released. But I’m sure you know that and are just being contrary.
Since code actually exists and should be released fairly soon, you could call this vaporware if you really wanted to, but you would be completely wrong.
So has been said since about November last year
. I’m sure people at Novell will code for Gnome in various ways, but I warn you that no one outside of the general open source community will nor will Novell be able to afford to fund a great deal of in-house software development that is demanded for things like GTK etc. that has no direct ROI.
Who are you referring to when you say “no one outside of the general open source community”? You mean like Sun and IBM? What does it matter anyway? ROI isn’t determined by the programming libraries used to create a product (duh).
People don’t use software for what it is programmed in (unless they are really dumb). What matters is that it works. Novell isn’t trying to sell the GTK library to programmers, but rather a corporate desktop to large corporations who will use it to schedule meetings, check email, store files, etc. Do you really think the pointy-haired people in the world responsible for deploying a solution such as this care if it was programmed using GTK, QT, or by weaving together the hairs off a frog’s butt? No. They just want something that works and saves them money. Stop whinging just for the sake of whinging.
Why this aricle then[?]
You would have to ask the author Stephen Shankland. I would assume he wrote it to get paid, since that what authors do, but I could be wrong.
…and why comments like Gnome applications do this and KDE applications don’t etc. etc? Sounds like they still have a lot of internal selling to do.
Didn’t I already say that? I told you there are two camps, the KDE guys (mostly ex-SuSE employees) and the Gnome guys (the rest of the company). I also told you who was the most likely to win.
LOL! Vapourware is software that is much talked about that hasn’t been released and hasn’t had a release date in sight for a long time.
See above. There is a big difference between working on a product and drumming up public interest in your unfinished product and in not having a product at all and drumming up interest in your non-existent product. The former is called “unfinished” while the latter is called “vaporware”. I’m sure you are aware of that though.
Boy who cried wolf syndrome… You people make me laugh, you really do.
And those of us who are writing this software and those who are testing this “vaporous” software look at impatient, uninformed trolls such as yourself and are thankful you’re not our target audience.
Good day.
> My question, and the whole point of my post
> was to ask the KDE lovers out there what’s
> to love? You didn’t even muster up a small
> stab at responding to that
Because it’s not worth it 🙂 You
1.) state that you deeply hate KDE
2.) state that you can’t say why (which makes it impossible for anyone to argue about anything)
3.) You ask why one should like KDE.
Imagine you would go to a Ford vendor and you would tell him that you hate Ford deep from your heart. In addition you would tell him that you can’t say why. But you’d really really like to hear why you should buy one …
If the vendor knows his job well enough he will try to get rid of you because he knows that you are trolling and that it doesn’t make sense at all to argue with you ….
> Vaporware is planned, but non-existant software.
Most of the building blocks that might result in the NLD exist already. But this doesn’t necessarily mean at all that the distribution has matured beyond the vapourware status. One year ago User Linux didn’t exist either and although the components were there already the software was vapourware and did result in a beta only recently.
Of course we can argue about definitions forever and I think that dubbing pre-alpha software as vapourware is a bit harsh but essentially David isn’t that wrong …
> I told you there are two camps, the KDE guys
Well it’s a very common phenomena that if you strongly like product G and strongly dislike product K that you will find that all people around yourself will like product G. It seems to be just the small minority of people that evangelize product K who seem to like product K (The same is true vice versa of course).
I for one worked for Novell as well and to me it seems that Gnome is mostly promoted by the rather small loud group of Ximian people as well as some marketing guys. On the other hand there are the SUSE employees who are mostly in favour of KDE.
The rest of the company simply doesn’t care that much.
I realize however that there are politically opposed forces within Novell who are trying to tell everyone the way things are going to be (even in direct conflict with existing product lines, and even their own Vice Chairman). I have a feeling they’re going to be rather embarrassed.
> look at impatient, uninformed trolls such as yourself
While David argues pretty level-headed and without much ridiculing and name calling I can’t say the same about you. Just as I explained above I think you are the troll Clinton …
Because it’s not worth it 🙂 You
1.) state that you deeply hate KDE
2.) state that you can’t say why (which makes it impossible for anyone to argue about anything)
3.) You ask why one should like KDE.
I would be more than happy to entertain any views on why KDE is better than some other window manager or DE. Thanks for the free mind reading session though; inaccurate though it may have been.
As for your Ford example, a real salesperson would NOT try and get rid of me, but would try to sell me a car. A perfect example… I owned a Camero for a while when I was younger. It was the worst car I’ve ever owned. So, I was determined to never own a Chevrolet again. However, about a year ago I met with a salesman who showed me some nice features on a Tahoe. I bought it and have been happy with it. I was hoping for a similar showing from someone in the KDE crowd. Oh well.
I haven’t explored every facet of KDE, so I was asking a sincere question and I told you what my dislikes were so you wouldn’t bother pointing them out as great features.
Anyway, to get to the point, your hypothetical example doesn’t hold water with me.
…this doesn’t necessarily mean at all that the distribution has matured beyond the vapourware status.
First of all, “vaporware” is not a status. It is a term that describes the chicanery of marketing non-existance (meaning unwritten) software with the intent to harm a competitor or steer the market. Secondly, they have already provided demos of this “vaporous” product, which prove it indeed exists.
“Vaporware” carries a negative connotation that suggests the company is lying to the market to hurt a competitor and that the company or organization doesn’t, in fact, have a single line of code written for said product.
Now, if you or David have proof that Novell is doing this, let’s see it. If not, trust in the word of those of us who know that the product does exist instead of trying to pass off conjecture and hyperbole as fact.
One year ago User Linux didn’t exist either and although the components were there already the software was vapourware and did result in a beta only recently.
I wouldn’t consider User Linux “vaporware”, but rather an announcement for the reasons mentioned above (no deviant plot on the User Linux group as far as I can tell).
Of course we can argue about definitions forever and I think that dubbing pre-alpha software as vapourware is a bit harsh but essentially David isn’t that wrong …
I disagree. The words we use have meaning and carry connotiations with them. When David uses a word which infers that Novell doesn’t have a product and are knowingly marketing a deception, I have to take issue with that.
I for one worked for Novell as well
Out of curiosity when, where and as what? I have worked on the Netware core, Groupwise, iPrint and iFolder in Provo, Utah.
I realize however that there are politically opposed forces within Novell who are trying to tell everyone the way things are going to be…
It’s not how they are going to be, it’s how they are. All existing Novell product integration is being done in Gnome/GTK; not KDE. Although no official declaration has been made, I think anybody working in KDE/QT will be disappointed when they have to either rewrite their code, or possibly enjoy the benefits of the next Novell lay-off. Of course, this is conjecture on my part, but since Novell is intertwining its offerings with Gnome and not KDE, it seems a fair assessment to me.
While David argues pretty level-headed and without much ridiculing and name calling I can’t say the same about you. Just as I explained above I think you are the troll Clinton …
If you can a misuse of terms and arguing a point with no facts “level-headed” then I guess so.
Also, I am a certainly a curmudgeon at times, but a troll I am not. I wish you guys would get your vocabularies and technical vernacular straight.
As for your Ford example, a real salesperson would NOT try and get rid of me, but would try to sell me a car. A perfect example…
A real salesman doesn’t argue. He leaves you and makes two or three sales in the time he would have spent arguing with you
.
Vaporware is planned, but non-existant software. It is a stategic ploy to keep segments of the market from committing to a competetor’s existing product long enough for the perpetrator of said ploy to come up with a product of their own. A common result in the case of vaporware is that software is never written or released. But I’m sure you know that and are just being contrary.
Which is exactly what it is
. KDE is the competitor (or is seen to be), so the Ximian people come out with a whole load of stuff trying to convince people of the way things are going.
Although no official declaration has been made, I think anybody working in KDE/QT will be disappointed when they have to either rewrite their code, or possibly enjoy the benefits of the next Novell lay-off. Of course, this is conjecture on my part, but since Novell is intertwining its offerings with Gnome and not KDE, it seems a fair assessment to me.
Give me a shipping date (not an internal one masquerading as an official release date). When it ships, call me. This has been said by umpteen people since last November – it hasn’t happened. That’s called vapourware, and meets your definition to a T. Ximian Desktop on Suse 9.0? Nope. On 9.1? Nope. On 9.2? Doesn’t look like it. You should get the idea by now.
A real salesman doesn’t argue. He leaves you and makes two or three sales in the time he would have spent arguing with you
.
You’re obviously not a saleperson. Who said I was arguing about my original post?
Which is exactly what it is
. KDE is the competitor (or is seen to be), so the Ximian people come out with a whole load of stuff trying to convince people of the way things are going.
Well, being brighter than the average piece of chewed gum, I can look at it running on a machine and say to myself, “Yes, that indeed exists.” Others of average intelligence would look at the witness of somebody who has seen it and say to themselves, “Yup, I guess it really does exist.” And then there would be you. I can’t buy it so it doesn’t exist, and not only that, but I’m going to try my hardest to convince the guy using it that it doesn’t exist. You seem a few clowns short of a circus dude.
That’s called vapourware, and meets your definition to a T.
No, it is neither. Is English your second languge? If so, I’ll forgive your apparent inability to comprehend it.
So, I suppose by your definition Longhorn is vaporware too right? If so, that is just sad.