After many requests to make SkyOS a multi-user desktop OS, implementation of the “Security Context” management has begun, and is now in working condition (however it is still a “hack” in many ways). In other news, the remaining pre-SkyOS 5.0 widgets are being updated to better fit the WindUI.
It must be nice starting an OS from scratch (at least kind of). I wish more companies would consider doing this sometimes.
It seems to take companies more time finding workarounds to all their existing code for compatibility/bugs than it would take them to write a brand new clean OS.
Well, again we see SkyOS moving forward… and I especially like the way Robert releases the betas: every new beta a major new feature is enabled; and other features are disabled, so that he can focus completely on the enabled feature.
Noce work
The new user-access-divided-into-blocks-thing is something that I really like, and it sounds very easy to configure custom user accessability with it.
I like the concept of being able to mix and match permissions like that. Its way better than being stuck as either “user” or “administrator.”
Shapeshifter V.90 – running as Administrator without a firewall or antivirus application for 11 months and counting.
As for SkyOS, it’s nice to see some multi-user implementation. That put SkyOS somewhat ahead of the good ol’ BeOS on at least one thing. Nice !
I really like SkyOS, the graphics are very good.
And with the new multiuser support, I am once more supprised about the speed of development. Great!
i was suprised by development when i first following almost 2yrs ago, but you get used to it lol, multi-user something i was pushing for since the beginning of my interest and now its here YAY
Very cool. No modern desktop OS is complete with multi-user support.
I, personally, have to express frustration, though. I’ve been part of the beta team since it began. I was able to install the first two or three beta’s without any problems. As soon as they introduced support for BeFS, though, I have been unable to succesfully install SkyOS more than a handful of times. Most often, the machine completely locks up on me while installing the base.pkg file. Though I don’t doubt that Robert has done his best to fix this, the problem continues through this latest beta. The only way I was able to install it is by downloading a demo version of VMware for Windows (because SkyOS doesn’t work with the vmware package for Linux), and install to a physical drive that way. With this last beta, to get it to boot to a running system without the CDROM, I had to setup a separate FAT partition and install the SkyOS grub files there. I haven’t heard from one person on the beta discussion board who has managed to get grub to properly install/boot on a SkyOS partition.
However once you manage to work around those problems, things pretty impressive. There are certainly bugs to be ironed (problems with the media player, for example), and areas that need to be finished (Networking and remote access) but all in all, SkyOS is shaping up to be something impressive in a few years time.
Adam
Errr… That should have read “No modern desktop OS is complete without multi-user support.”
Adam
Hey Youlle you’ve been in this as well since about two years? Nice, maybe we can reminisce a bit
I still remember my first discussion with Kelly about the new GUI… We completely disagreed on just about everything :S
But serious now. This really is a major step. But, on the other hand, I’m on guard as well; Robert shouldn’t take on too much. But, I trust he’ll do it the right way.
this OS just gets better and better….it has a very bright future in my personal opinion!
Haha yep its come a long when since I’ve joined (hmmm I think I started following it around 2 years ago too)..
This is a great development, even though I dont use mult-user accounts it seems that a lot of people do.
Now all we need is the 3D rotating cube when we switch!
proph3t were skyos veterans lol well with Multi-user accounts security has been addressed so multiple accounts one for admin one for everyday use or just use one account, which i have to admit i do sometimes
“this OS just gets better and better….it has a very bright future in my personal opinion!
”
what do you like about it specifically
It’s nice to have in a Desktop OS.
But, I’ve rarely needed it.
I actually prefer the days of Single User OS’es.
I only have one user setup on all my machines.
I just hope he is taking the time to design SkyOS properly, we know what happens when you start tacking things on as an afterthought *cough*Windows*cough*
They are right to make permissions fine-grained though (rather than totally user-based). You could go a long way to securing a SkyOS server (yes I know, maybe one day) by simply denying all your network servers from executing new processes (with an exception for certain CGI programs), reading outside of a specified folder + any configs, and writing anywhere on the filesystem.
this is GREAT news and I’m glade I requested it too =)
>> They are right to make permissions fine-grained though (rather than totally user-based). You could go a long way to securing a SkyOS server (yes I know, maybe one day) by simply denying all your network servers from executing new processes (with an exception for certain CGI programs), reading outside of a specified folder + any configs, and writing anywhere on the filesystem.
Yes, I had an similar idea. I implemented a so called “access-right modifier” feature.
When starting an application from the viewer and holding down CTRL+ALT, a “rights-managament” window popups. Using this window you can “temporarly” modify the rights this application will have. (Again, you can choose from more than 150 different rights). As long as this process lives (and all created subprocesses), they will have this just set rights.
To take your example, you could for example deny sub-process-execution for the webserver by removing the rights for it.
Not sure if this feature will make it into the final. Time will tell.
I come to OSNews many times a day. One of the main reasons I keep checking is to see what’s new with SkyOS. I’ve always had an affinity for alternative OS’s, perticularly SkyOS and BeOS … Linux just gets too… messy. Just trying to choose a distro makes me feel like I have dissociative personality disorder!
Anyways, Robert, My hat is off to you and you’re crew. What you’ve created is one of the few things I’ll have no consumer regret after purchasing. Can’t wait till its done.
I just wish people would stop and remeber where Linux and BeOS came from and the struggles that they had in getting hardware and driver support. I for one plan to endorse and actively use this OS like I did BeOS. Awww heck, I get paid tomorrow, I should just buy into the beta program!
Cheers
“I keep checking is to see what’s new with SkyOS. I’ve always had an affinity for alternative OS’s, perticularly SkyOS and BeOS … Linux just gets too… messy. Just trying to choose a distro makes me feel like I have dissociative personality disorder! ”
dont affliate your problem with the operating system. talk about the merits of skyos. no need to bash other operating systems here and start a flamewar. every OS worthy of anything can stand on its own will without attacking other operating systems.
cut the crap.
Apologies if this has already been brought up in SkyOS discussions…but how is the team going to provide for Nvidia and ATI owners who need drivers for OpenGL stuff like games and screensavers?
I ask because I remember seeing a cool video of working OpenGL on SkyOS a few months ago. I just *finally* got my Geforce 3 working in Debian again w/full 3D support (thank you Mepis)…I was wondering if it would’ve been easier with Robert’s project.
As for the multi-user security features…it’s always a blast watching devs react quickly to user concerns!
foo
From my understanding, SkyOS has the same kind of non-accelerated drivers as Linux has and BeOS had (ie : Mesa). So there is some OpenGL support, enough for a simple screensaver or a glxgears demo. However, because the nVidia and ATi people keep their hardware interfaces so secret, SkyOS does not have a fully accelerated 3D driver. So playing Quake III on SkyOS is, well, quite a ways off.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
SkyOs has 2D accelerated drivers for a wide selection of GFX cards including nVidia & ATi, 3D is done through Software acceleration like DirectX’s HAL.
Maybe SkyOS authors should have been written desktop enviroment or something like that, instead of whole OS. They could now concentrate on things they are more interested in, instead of having to write _anything_ OS has to have (things like multiuser support).
Yes, it is understandable that reusing existing technologies requires learning, and starting from scratch is easy and feels better, but reusing is the Right Thing, esp. when developer resources are limited. Starting froms scratch also requires DESIGNING the system, UNIX,WINNT,BeOS,MacOS designs were taken seriously and had distinctive features. Linux&BSD just implement UNIX (BSD is rather elegant, while Linux is a mess).
Now, what is this SkyOS? Are there any design docs? What’s so innovative about it? It looks like OS reimplementing existing things, plus borrows code from different projects all over the system. They even use KDE icons
No time to do all things well.
Here are your “security context hacks” nevertheless. Oh, and shiny widgets too.
Like this news…. Anyway, have NO time at checking new os out… Have to search for a job
Anyway this seems so cool and impressive, that i can’t wait to see, if skyos will be what linux is about to become..
A desktop os, a modern desktop os – that is!!
“They even use KDE icons”
the icons were produced by Everaldo and he knows that SkyOs is using them, so how are they KDE’s? yes they are used by KDE but does the KDE project own them?
“looks like OS reimplementing existing things”
well you have to implement existing things other wise how can you get anywhere? oh wait someone already did a CLI lets miss that out, oh someones already included 16 CPU SMP support lets miss that out too, you see theres a long list things that exist need to be implemented so more advanced features can come along later.
“plus borrows code from different projects all over the system”
borrows code where? oh you mean the GPL software ported from other platforms, okay just explain how its borrowed?
Mac Os X, which is a great OS, takes it’s design from BsD which is an UNIX Clone …
Mmmh, I don’t think that Win NT’s design is good enough anymore for today’s expectation
I don’t know BeOS, never used it, though I heard of it but..well…it’s nowhere to be seen
So, Why do you take it for granted that SkyOs couldn’t have a good enough design ? Robert whas been working on SkyOs for 7 years…I think that we can by now expect him to know what he is doing…. =P
As for inovation : that one man creates a complete OS (kernel, desktop, drivers and stuff) is INNOVATION.
Nobody did it before (Linus created the linux Kernel…not the whole Gnu/Linuxes, Stallmann is famous for GCC, Emacs…(yet not a whole OS) Let Robert be famous for SkyOS !)
And making some new big shiny fast thing out of old stuff is good enough…Robert already codes like he has 3 heads and 8 arms….And you still want more…
Bah…
time to see if this sucker can be used for my next project. i was hopeing to get a pc up with beos but thats not a option right now so maybe ill try to fire up skyos on it:)
this os looks promising, just make sure you dont get lost in the acl mumbojumbo that ntfs is full of:(
oh and does this sucker support any kind of network file systems like say samba/smb/cifs?
the icons were produced by Everaldo and he knows that SkyOs is using them, so how are they KDE’s? yes they are used by KDE but does the KDE project own them?
Well, this is not about copyright, just about they’re non-original. No unique identity. No own visual style..
“looks like OS reimplementing existing things”
well you have to implement existing things other wise how can you get anywhere? oh wait someone already did a CLI lets miss that out, oh someones already included 16 CPU SMP support lets miss that out too, you see theres a long list things that exist need to be implemented so more advanced features can come along later.
OK, right, but re-read that as “just reimplementing”. IMHO, strong innovations should be present from the start, and form a platform for further advancement. Advanced features are a different thing, they use a platform, not form it. So, how is SkyOS platform different/better that others? I mean, from developer’s perspective – after all it is developers who use OS features, users just deal with what developers are able to provide.
Innovative things would be something like: 1)microkernel, pluggable kernel parts 2).NET-like common-language platform/API 3)conceptually new [G]UI 4)Plan9 ideas etc.
You know, SkyOS looks not like OS, but like an application – enviroment for users rather that platform for developers.
“plus borrows code from different projects all over the system”
borrows code where? oh you mean the GPL software ported from other platforms, okay just explain how its borrowed?
I don’t know, it is closed source, but it would be interesting to binary-compare SkyOS files with some OSS software
Oh, and you don’t even have to copy-paste, read sources & get ideas. Not a crime of course, just about “reimplementation”.
“”They even use KDE icons”
the icons were produced by Everaldo and he knows that SkyOs is using them, so how are they KDE’s? yes they are used by KDE but does the KDE project own them? ”
you are doing lawyer speak. regardless of who designed them and owns the copyright they are known as kde icons. they can very well be shared by many platforms but the original poster was talking about visual identity and you very well know that.
maybe robert wants to do his own things later on. its not just kde icons there is also a lot of other stuff like gtk,abiword,gnu tools,khtml browser engine from konqueror and openbefs filesystem. nothing wrong with all of this except that it doesnt make the OS completely written from scratch. doing so today is worthless imho. it makes sense to use the superb stuff thats available for reuse wherever it makes sense.
so stop claiming that its written from scratch and dont hesitate to reuse stuff thats appropriate
“”plus borrows code from different projects all over the system”
borrows code where? oh you mean the GPL software ported from other platforms, okay just explain how its borrowed?”
he meant reusing code. stop picking up on words when you already understand what the poster says
“so stop claiming that its written from scratch and dont hesitate to reuse stuff thats appropriate”
The majority of SkyOS has been written from scratch. Yes, we have bundled some APPLICATIONS so as to make our system more feature-rich, but in regards to the actual operating system, almost the entirety of it has been written from scratch.
Is this kind of flamewar unique to SkyOS posts on osnews, or is it just kind of a general thing?
maybe robert wants to do his own things later on. its not just kde icons there is also a lot of other stuff like gtk,abiword,gnu tools,khtml browser engine from konqueror and openbefs filesystem. nothing wrong with all of this except that it doesnt make the OS completely written from scratch.
Do you people really not understand the fact that those are APPLICATIONS and NOT the OS itself? The operating system was written from scratch.
Get a clue people.
“Do you people really not understand the fact that those are APPLICATIONS and NOT the OS itself? The operating system was written from scratch.
Get a clue people.”
why dont you get a clue. filesystem is part of the beos operating system right. it is based on openbefs right?
applications are what makes you use skyos. so a lot of reuse is going on and is appreciated
”
The majority of SkyOS has been written from scratch. Yes, we have bundled some APPLICATIONS so as to make our system more feature-rich, but in regards to the actual operating system, almost the entirety of it has been written from scratch.”
what i am telling you is that reusing code shouldnt be taken up as something undesirable. even when we write something from scratch we do take ideas from other projects and we should happy to reuse code and ideas where applicable. writing something from scratch doesnt equate to innovation or a better design. so why keep mentioning it as if its something good and every time someone mentions the reuse you try to shut him up.
it just doesnt make sense
According to Linux distributions (as an example) and especially debian, an Operating System is both the kernel/fs/etc stuff, and everything packaged with it, that makes the system operational. So bascically, applications, even unnecessary ones of course, are part of the operating system package if they’re bundled with it. (And gtk libraries certainly are a part of an operating system, it’s libraries:>)
Isn’t this supporting an illegal monopoly by only creating drivers for windows ?
Racketeering ? I know there are laws against this. Has anyone attempted suing those greedy fucking bastards.
It reminds me of the auto companies and their black boxes who don’t want people to fix/work on their own cars.
Sue them ! Gov should get involved.
“what i am telling you is that reusing code shouldnt be taken up as something undesirable. even when we write something from scratch we do take ideas from other projects and we should happy to reuse code and ideas where applicable. writing something from scratch doesnt equate to innovation or a better design.”
That’s all well and good, but it still doesn’t change the fact that almost the entire operating system was written from scratch, which is the question at hand. The only major part that was borrowed code was the OpenBFS.
Yes, reusing code is fine, sometimes that is the better solution (just look at the FS). But sometimes, writing new code is best. In this instance, it allowed Robert to create a system that he felt was easy to understand, and was better in many ways than the alternatives available.
Either way, the proposition was that SkyOS was not written almost entirely from scratch, and that is false. SkyOS (the operating system) WAS written almost entirely from scratch.
to the people who answered my gfx driver question
foo
They want to develop an OS.
Looks like they are doing a great job…
I don’t think the intention is to knock Microsoft off their post (but, you never know…)
Why can’t all the naysayers just let them have fun doing their best to write an OS?
How does that hurt anything?
Just let em alone, and have fun watching someone innovate something new…
(yeah, yeah.. Also by leveraging some old stuff…)