You can easily surf the Web and run a spreadsheet on a Linux-powered PC, but good luck if you want to balance your checkbook. Linux has more fans all the time, but a lack of familiar applications is slowing adoption, says News.com. Major software makers say they’re waiting for more Linux users before bothering to adapt their products to open-source–but Linux advocates say the window of opportunity is closing. Not even Linux guru Bruce Perens can find all the open-source software he needs: “I admit it–I still have a Windows machine that I use solely to run Quicken and TurboTax once a year.“
Support for Familiar Applications Slowing Down Linux Adoption
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
People have a habit of not looking to see if there are alternatives. And, if there are, they are quick to pass judgement on the software because its not the exact software they want. It may even be better, but they don’t care. This article ignores the idea of alternatives.
There are plenty of alternatives. The article mentions Photoshop, but makes no mention of the Gimp (www.gimp.org). The article mentions Quicken, but makes no mention of GnuCash (www.gnucash.org) or MoneyDance (www.moneydance.com). As for taxes.. I’m not sure. I’ve seen plenty of projects, but none that have come to fruition. The entire market (windows) is pretty much controlled by two companies though.
If people took the time to look with an open mind, then maybe they would find what they need.
I think that the converse is true. I use Linux as my main desktop but I also have Windows. However, there are programs that I have in Linux which I would _love_ to have in Windows — without using Cygwin.
At the same time Linux advocates are always throwing out the same alternatives which are no where near as good as the Windows/Mac apps they try to copy. GIMP is no where near as good as PhotoShop for the hard core PhotoShop user. Plus the thing to always remember is GIMP will always be playing catchup to PhotoShop. When they finally get most of the features in PhotoShop CS copied, PhotoShop will have advanced by another couple versions.
When you use an application like Quicken you get more than just some replacement for a Checkbook register. You get Quicken.com’s web site you can synch up with when you start up the application; downloading the days stock quotes and other asset related information, updating all the info in your portfolio. Synching up with your bank so you don’t have to manually go in and reconcile your account. Plus their web site offers lots of information that will display within the application itself.
I teach computer classes on the weekend, and there are lots of application out there people use that don’t have anything comparable on Linux:
3D Studio Max, Lightwave, Bryce, Amapi, Vue D’Sprit for 3D work. (Maya is on Linux but costs a lot and for some basic work is overkill compared to other apps, Blender 3D is not comparable to the items listed)
Illustrator, FreeHand, Canvas, Corel Draw for vector work. (Sodipodi is not in league with these apps)
Dream Weaver, Fireworks, Director, Flash
Plus you have the little applications that have no good counterpart under Linux because some geek isn’t going to use his free time to create it. People in my classes use stuff like
The Master Cook series which has a couple CD’s worth of Betty Crocker cookbooks, popular with some of the people in my classes; along with other recipe software.
3D Landscape and Home Architect software
Software to manage your Will or other legal documents
Software that teaches Spanish, French, Italian, etc.
Print Shop, Calendar Creator, Card Creator software
A good desktop publishing application for the community newsletter
People use their computers for stuff other than surfing, music, finances and e-mail.
So, for some people sure if they search they can find something that might be close to what they want. But the part that sucks is having to do that search; having to test the dozen or so apps to see if anything comes close to what you’ve been using all along.
Sure Gimp is fine for you, but there are quite a few windows users that would describe it as second class. The UI for Gimp is also not that “Familiar”, Fireworks, Photoshop, and Paint Shop Pro all have the same basic UI. Not that Gimp is difficult, but it took me only a few minutes to learn Macromedia Fireworks. It seems like the more Linux drags its feet moving to the desktop, the more difficult it is going to be for me to replace all of my Windows applications built with MSFT’s steller development environment.
“the more difficult it is going to be for me to replace all of my Windows applications built with MSFT’s steller development environment.”
haha…stellar…yeah..ok..
…that must be why everyone says they hate it so much they are dying to move to .NET.
Can most people afford to blow $700 on Photoshop?
You can purchase PhotoShop CS (PhotoShop 8.0) for $179 from here
http://www.adobesoftwareonline.com/adobe.php
Go out and buy a book on PhotoShop to replace the manual you don’t receive.
The only way comapnies such as Adobe and Intuit are going to port thier product to Linux is if 1) Linux standardizes on a GUI framework, 2) Linux users are willing to pay for the software, 3) Enough Linux users write these comapnies convensing them that the products need to be ported.
Both MS and Apple have developed a standard desktop that vendors can more or less depend upon to develop thier apps. The Linux community needs to get past all the eyecandy obsession they have, pick a standard (QT, GTK, or Motif) and move forward.
Linux has allot to offer, choice is great but to much choice is counter productive.
Retail price: $649.00
Our download price: $149.95
:O wow, what a deal.
The software sold at http://www.adobesoftwareonline.com is illegal.
This is a chicken/egg problem.
Do your part: use linux and may be some day Adobe, Corel, etc will begin to make multiplatform applications.
If I had a software-house I would make only multi-platform commercial applications, not only for Windows or only for linux. This is the wright choice to every company who don’t want to be destroyed by Microsoft pratices.
GIMP will always be playing catchup to PhotoShop. When they finally get most of the features in PhotoShop CS copied, PhotoShop will have advanced by another couple versions.
Gimp3 will be a major rewrite and thus is going to have features that are not easy to be implemented in an existing, large app like photoshop.
Gimp3 is going to be based on http://www.gegl.org/
When you use an application like Quicken you get more than just some replacement for a Checkbook register. You get Quicken.com’s web site you can synch up with when you start up the application; downloading the days stock quotes and other asset related information, updating all the info in your portfolio. Synching up with your bank so you don’t have to manually go in and reconcile your account.
Have you tried gnucash? AFAIK it does almost the same that you describe.
Illustrator, FreeHand, Canvas, Corel Draw for vector work. (Sodipodi is not in league with these apps)
Inkscape is fast in catching up and already has features (e.g. Clone) that are not available in the apps you mentioned. Sure there are some futures missing, but do not tell me that the artwork will be better because of that.
Dream Weaver
Quanta (and Nvu) are close and in a few points better.
Fireworks, Director, Flash
Agreed, that applications are missing, but you could get a lot of the productivity of Fireworks using scripts in GIMP.
And Flash is usable with Codeweavers Wine.
The Master Cook series which has a couple CD’s worth of Betty Crocker cookbooks, popular with some of the people in my classes; along with other recipe software.
Krecipes http://krecipes.sourceforge.net/
Software to manage your Will or other legal documents
What does this software do?
Software that teaches Spanish, French, Italian, etc.
True, but if there are no authoring tools like Director …
Print Shop
what does it do?
Calendar Creator
e.g. korganizer can print calendars
Card Creator software
what kind of cards?
A good desktop publishing application for the community newsletter
ever tried scribus? http://dot.kde.org/1083054064/
So, for some people sure if they search they can find something that might be close to what they want. But the part that sucks is having to do that search; having to test the dozen or so apps to see if anything comes close to what you’ve been using all along.
And how have you found the applications you use now? The power of open source is that you can check many applications out at no cost.
Just these past couple of days, I’ve added two more apps to my library:
http://www.tgslabs.com/en/winorganizer
(Some people would compare this to Evolution, but this one is more like Treepad with PIM features added – not the same)
http://3darcade.mameworld.net
Just the coolest friggin’ thing I’ve seen since Napster.
Linux on my desktop? Naaaaaaaah
Here’s another thing to think about, since I saw an article recently here about voice/video in Linux/OSS IM clients – they’re working on a new version Windows of Yahoo that, amoung other things, has Launchcast built directly into the client. The alternatives will be playing catch-up once again.
Ya know, I hear alot of static about how good Photoshop is. I do not personally *USE* photshop. Like far more of you than admit it, I tinker with less than 1% of what Photoshop REALLY is. However I have a very good friend who uses Photoshop extensively as well as other graffic work tools. Yes, for the truly hardcore there really is Just Photoshop. But for the rest of us if most of you would admit it, Gimp and various other solutions that cost quite a bit less than Photshop is still way overkill. And yes I agree Linux needs a Framework. I monitor the X.Org mailing lists and I can tell you from reading those regularly that folks from both sides QT and GTK ect are working on just that. Solutions for big business. It just irritates me that a simpleton like me meets a “photoshop pro” user who brags no end about how studly they are and I wind up showing them things. And I at least admit im a lightweight.
My apologies for the rant…some things drive me nuts.
Peace
Good luck balancing your checkbook with gnucash.
Good luck balancing your checkbook by yourself.
Balancing checkbooks requires at least a 5th grade education.
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/04/29/cinepaint.html
“Giving The GIMP More Depth
The technical demands of motion picture and high-resolution photography tax or exceed the capabilities of either The GIMP or Photoshop. Photo retouching applications, including The GIMP and Photoshop, deal with 8-bit color images, and the latest version of Photoshop has good 16-bit capabilities. CinePaint, though, supports 8-bit, 16-bit, and 32-bit depths. Artists refer to the ability to manipulate color images of a broader range as “deep paint.””
A couple of years ago, you could have said the same thing about the server side. The thing about Linux is, it waits and it does not die. While OS/2 withered on the vine for lack of ISV support, Linux continues to pick up market share and isn’t likely to wither anytime soon. The point isn’t whether the Gimp is better than Photoshop or whether Photoshop thru Crossover Office is adequate, but whether an OS can survive long enough to achieve the critical mass necessary to attract ISVs. Linux’s impressive collection of increasingly capable free software is enough for a lot of people – and a lot of people are moving to Linux due to it. Sooner or later, the ISVs will join the party – or they won’t be necessary for the party to go on.
You can purchase PhotoShop CS (PhotoShop 8.0) for $179 from here
http://www.adobesoftwareonline.com/adobe.php
Go out and buy a book on PhotoShop to replace the manual you don’t receive.
Not for long. Both Macromedia and Adobe have just been notified about this website’s existence.
I know I will be flamed for this, but IMHO Photoshop / GIMP are a bit far fetched for us developer types.
But, while boasting to be *the* platform of choice for software developers, Linux lacks any text editor that can hold a candle to UltraEdit, TextPad or the like.
Yes, I know vim, gvim, emacs, xemacs, kate, jedit, SciTE. The latter ones in that list even go into the right direction, but yet they fall short.
Oh, I hear ya whine and flame that “real developers use vi or emacs anyway”. Those beasties are fine for someone who has grown up with escape-meta-alt-control-shift or escape-colon-x, but claiming them to be sufficient, or even superior, is simply failing to see the shortcomings.
I won’t go into details; the reactions to this post will be sufficient proof. (“You know nothing”, “intuitive GUIs are for wimps”, “vim/emacs is *so* much superior to what millions of users are used to”…)
I’ll second that. It is not like basic addition and subtraction is hard. That is why the bank is good enough to give you a register with your checkbooks. It is a sad state of affairs when one cannot perform simple math that a child in the 3rd grade could do. No need for multiplication or division, addition and subtraction is all one needs to know to balance thier checkbook. I find it amazing that 3rd graders have the nessesary skills, yet grown men, (and women), think that they cannot balance a checkbook because it is too hard. If it truly is the task that some people make it out to be, maybe they need to take a basic mathamatics course at thier local community learning center. Using a calculator is one thing, but when people are just too lazy to write down thier transactions in the ledger, (for God knows what reason), and rely on “syncing” with thier bank to get the correct balance, that person should not be having a checking account in the first place. Maybe cash would be easier for them. At leas then, it is reduced to simple counting, which a 5 year old could manage. And even if that is too difficult for you, the toy comanies make toy ATMs, so you just put all your money in there, and take out the money as you need it. It would keep a running total for you. No math, and only counting nessesary when the bills are initally loaded into the machine. Any lower skill level, and you should not even carry cash. Have your mommy do it instead, maybe she will be able to keep up with the “ungodly responsability”.
This just in, profit oriented software can do things free (as in beer) software can’t! Big surprise. The fix isn’t going to be emulation. It’s simply too much to try and make agreements with 10 different banks and wall street for banking software. It’s too much to try and maintain rules for the probably thousands of tax exemptions. We can’t go and emulate flash because Macromedia would probably sue; besides flash websites are awful and shouldn’t be used anyway (except in rare useful cases).
Linux will get ahead by attracting profit oriented software to port. Apple seems to have partially tried what you guys suggest, and it’s still missing pieces of software.
In the end though, a good quarter of the market doesn’t use these specialized applications. I’d love to see a 25% market share for Linux. Actually, anything near 10 would be good (for desktop, not servers).
My dream is a group of about 5-10 different (and I mean different) operating systems with fairly even market shares competing. I know it might be a bit confusing for some, but it would be nice to see real competition. Unfortunately though, the Ford of the industry would win in the end. It would buy up the Volvo of the industry and ruin it.
“Support for Familiar Applications Slowing Down Linux Adoption”
I read that article twice and couldn’t find any statement that would justify that title.
Windows will never become a viable alternative to Linux. I need Konqueror – don’t say there’s Explorer for Windows, it’s no match for Konqueror, and will never be.
Same goes for MPlayer, no media player for Windows even comes close.
And I need KDevelop for my daily work – sure, I could use Visual Studio, but it’s way to expensive and I don’t want to learn VS.
BTW, Windows is so inconsistent (compare Photoshop, Office, Media Player and Painter – they all look, work and behave completely different).
You see, this game can be played from both sides… 😉
It is not like basic addition and subtraction is hard. That is why the bank is good enough to give you a register with your checkbooks. It is a sad state of affairs when one cannot perform simple math that a child in the 3rd grade could do. No need for multiplication or division, addition and subtraction is all one needs to know to balance thier checkbook. I find it amazing that 3rd graders have the nessesary skills, yet grown men, (and women), think that they cannot balance a checkbook because it is too hard.
See, when people tell you what they use computers for, and then you insult/belittle them – that is The Linux/OSS Way.
Anyway, I *could* balance a checkbook on my own, but I wrote a program do it for me. Why? Because I can. Not only does it keep track of the balance, but I can also put in on a monthly basis how much I need to set aside for this or that, and it will automagically tell me my ‘allowance’ for any given pay period. See, that’s what we use comptuers for – to make our lives easier. Well, except for some people who use it to dick around with the OS all day and can’t understand what it means to get work done and why simply dicking with the OS just isn’t enough for everyone.
why dont linux have a webpage where we users can post, and find programs that we need.
like i need a program like netlimiter (http://netlimiter.com/) on my linux.
…run on Linux with Crossover Office (with online banking working like a charm). So does Dreamweaver, MS Office, etc.
Now, just to point out an obvious contradiction:
Justin Sane
there are lots of application out there people use that don’t have anything comparable on Linux:
3D Studio Max, Lightwave, Bryce, Amapi, Vue D’Sprit for 3D work. (Maya is on Linux but costs a lot and for some basic work is overkill compared to other apps, Blender 3D is not comparable to the items listed)
Maya is the industry standard. It has displaced 3DSMax, but in any case these two products are “comparable”, contradicting your earlier claim. Then in the same sentence, you say that Maya may be “overkill” for some basic work and that Blender 3D is not comparable. Another contradiction: if all you need to do is basic work, then Blender 3D is quite sufficient. If you need to do professional work, then Maya is the way to go.
Otherwise, testerus has done a good job of indicating what alternatives there are to Windows apps.
What’s wrong with Kate?
Darius
Yeah, we know you don’t like Linux and think it’s a toy OS and that those who use it are zealots, etc…Do you have to repeat the same thing over and over again on Linux threads, though? It’s like you’re trolling for attention. If only you were actually making sense. Case in point:
Anyway, I *could* balance a checkbook on my own, but I wrote a program do it for me. Why? Because I can. […] See, that’s what we use comptuers for – to make our lives easier.
So…you use a computer to make your life easier, and then you write a program to balance your checkbook? Wouldn’t it have been easier just to use a ready-made program for that?
Personally, I balance my finances using Quicken on Linux. It’s great, because I want an OS that Just Works, not an OS that Works While Enriching an Aggressive Monopoly Which Stifles Competition and Innovation.
One thing I note about every time I visit a company is the
large amount of legazy and specialized software. Mostly there
is some spezialized application, everything from an overgrown
Excel spreadsheet which interfaces a billing database to more
complex frontends to larger systems. And they’re written ofcourse for Windows. Which again makes linux adoption not
an option, just imagine all those applications not beeing available, but which you need to run your business.
Morale is; There is much more to applications than browsers,email clients
and office suites..
Not going to respond to your first paragraph because you’re trolling, but ..
So…you use a computer to make your life easier, and then you write a program to balance your checkbook? Wouldn’t it have been easier just to use a ready-made program for that?
Not really, because I couldn’t find one that did exactly what I wanted and *how* I wanted, so I wrote my own. I’ve actually done this quite a few times.
Anyway, it was a ‘quick and dirty’ VB6 app that took an entire Saturday afternoon to write, so no biggie.
I am mildly fed up with the issue of linux games.
1)I wonder what is the percentage of computer users who need expensive, highly sophisticated games.
2) When I still used Windows (I still use it occasionally) I couldn’t find any free games at all. And linux? Linux has hundreds, maybe thousands of free game. Contrary to what many people believe some of them are very nice: GL-117 is a very good example. Personally I find Pinball almost addictive.
3) If commercial games is what you want, quite a few have been ported to linux or work fine under Winex.
Anyway PCs were not invented for highly sophisticated games.
Game consoles were
Not going to respond to your first paragraph because you’re trolling, but ..
Yeah, well, so were you. Let’s try to remain within the realm of constructive criticism, shall we?
Not really, because I couldn’t find one that did exactly what I wanted and *how* I wanted, so I wrote my own. I’ve actually done this quite a few times.
I respect that. Personally, I have yet to go beyond simple scripts, but even that was enough to make my life easier (like, for example, putting a “new session” icon on my desktop that lets me start a new X session but decide the resolution of that session).
Exactly. Take it from someone who works in the industry: the future of gaming will continue to be dominated by consoles. Meanwhile, some of the biggest Computer games will be playable on Linux (though Half-Life 2 might not be).
I’m a gamer and yet Linux is my primary Desktop at home. I satisfy my gaming needs with both a PS2 and an Xbox.
“2) When I still used Windows (I still use it occasionally) I couldn’t find any free games at all. And linux? Linux has hundreds, maybe thousands of free game.”
What about using a Linux emulator so you can run those games in Windows, just like other programs?
Yes, I don’t see why not if Windows is your prefered platform.
As to me yesterday I logged into Windows, I performed a scan with Spybot and found 50 pieces of spyware. For the first time ever Spybot couldn’t remove everything. I tried with Ad-aware.
It couldn’t either without a reboot.
It beats me where that much spyware had come from.
What I mean by this: personally I prefer to run my linux games in their native environment.
It beats me where that much spyware had come from.
It usually comes from clicking Yes on ActiveX controls and from 3rd party apps that you install. Not using IE will get rid of the first problem, doing about 5 minutes of searching before installing apps will get rid of the second.
Follow these directions, and you won’t even need Spybot anymore.
“Plus the thing to always remember is GIMP will always be playing catchup to PhotoShop. When they finally get most of the features in PhotoShop CS copied, PhotoShop will have advanced by another couple versions. ”
Speaking of throwing out the same old. When will some of you understand what “rate” means?
“When you use an application like Quicken you get more than just some replacement for a Checkbook register. You get Quicken.com’s web site you can synch up with when you start up the application; downloading the days stock quotes and other asset related information, updating all the info in your portfolio. Synching up with your bank so you don’t have to manually go in and reconcile your account. Plus their web site offers lots of information that will display within the application itself. ”
A lot of fluff I don’t need, anyway I did my taxes online. Webapps is were a lot of programs are headed, so the “my program is better than your program” discussion will mostly disappear.
“Plus you have the little applications that have no good counterpart under Linux because some geek isn’t going to use his free time to create it. People in my classes use stuff like ”
Well since there’s a desire (read itch) for them. Someone may have already created something, or soon will.
“The Master Cook series which has a couple CD’s worth of Betty Crocker cookbooks, popular with some of the people in my classes; along with other recipe software.”
I’ve seen programs that access data locked onto CD’s like that. Anyway some geeks do like to cook, and this itch may already be scratched.
“3D Landscape and Home Architect software ”
There’s CAD programs for Linux, which the above basically are.
“Software to manage your Will or other legal documents ”
I can go to my local bookstore and buy kits that help me do that. It’s not like I’m going to be doing a mess of legal documents, and if I am I’ll use a lawyer.
“Software that teaches Spanish, French, Italian, etc. ”
Fortunately I live in a neighbourhood were the “immersion” technique works quite well.
“Print Shop, Calendar Creator, Card Creator software”
The value I’ve found in these programs isn’t so much the actual program, but all the add ons like clip-art, and sound bites.
“So, for some people sure if they search they can find something that might be close to what they want. But the part that sucks is having to do that search; having to test the dozen or so apps to see if anything comes close to what you’ve been using all along.”
Not really that much different than when I use to go shareware hunting.
You can do your taxes on Quicken/Intuit’s website- it is a Java program, and has the same UI as the retail boxed product. Mozilla on Mandrake 9.2 Power Pack ran it just fine.
Hey nun, we meet again.
Hmmm. Gaming. Of course consoles will rule the gaming industry, but if I want to run an expensive bought and paid for PC game on my computer then I should have that right shouldn’t I?
Like many linux users say, it is about choice, correct? So I choose to pay $40-50 for that Half-Life 2 which I know will run fine on my windows gaming box along with all the other windows PC gaming masterpieces, which I paid for. Some will say, “then be stupid and pay for it,” well, you know what? fine, I will. Tis my choice.
The point is, people can choose, and my belief is that when people do choose, most people may choose to stick with what is familiar, whether or not others may like it. If it means spending money as opposed to switching to open source, so be it. Right now, as far as I see it, their isn’t much more that open source can offer to the average user than windows, besides no cost. But even then I think that cost won’t be that much of a factor when they know that MS has the apps they want and they won’t be going anywhere.
As for me, I enjoy my windows gaming and hassle free desktop use (oh, and I haven’t seen a BSOD in I can’t remember). I will leave my linux box alone as a web server.
“Right now, as far as I see it, their isn’t much more that open source can offer to the average user than windows, besides no cost.”
Better keep your mouth shut! Now we are going to hear about every open source program that works as a perfect replacement for a closed source one, even though it may offer half the functionality. Kidding aside, I agree with you here. I guess I must be a minority on these boards. I have no problem paying a few bucks for a product that will run well on my system. I have tried open source products for what I do, and honestly, they just dont do what I need. I tried Gimp, and honestly, the $100 bucks or so I spent for Paint Shop Pro was well worth the cash. I could have gone open source, but the amont of work I am able to get done was well worth the cash. Same when I bought the student version of 3DS Max. There was Blender, but IMO, the interface really, really needs some major work. Paid money for 3DS Max, and hey, I have a great program to use. I even paid for Windows XP Pro, and it has been a pleasure to use when compared the the multiple Linux distros I have tried. Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to bash open source software. It DOES have its place. Its just that I hear so much about how there is an open source equivalant (spelling?) to every major closed program there is. Sorry, there are some things that closed software can do far better than closed source, and in some places there just isnt a real replacement in the open source world. One last thing. Next time I hear about an open source program making a replacement for a closed source, I would LOVE to know why. I have seen some expamples of programs (in this thread, even!) that would make a replacement, but no details. Here is one example:
“”3D Landscape and Home Architect software ”
There’s CAD programs for Linux, which the above basically are. ”
So what are these programs? Are they as good as, say, Auto Cad? Do they have as many features or as easy to use as one available for Windows? Yea, a program is available on Linux, but that doesnt automatically mean its as good as one on an alternative OS.
More to the point, who uses a cheque book these days when there is EFTPOS, left, right, centre and occasionally offered by the guy selling coffee from a trailor in the middle of no wear. The justification for using cheques is LONG gone. Online banking and EFTPOS has made them nothing more than a cheap way of getting 5 days of credit due to the time of processing.
@ Bjorn
“why dont linux have a webpage where we users can post, and find programs that we need.”
Try http://www.freshmeat.net it is one of the most popular software repositories around.
“I am mildly fed up with the issue of linux games.”
@ Alexander
So am i. There are tons of games on Linux, and tons of emulators (ie. for game consoles) as well.
The Linux Gamers FAQ: http://www.icculus.org/lgfaq/
Game list for Linux (incomplete!): http://www.icculus.org/lgfaq/gamelist.php
Linux gamer sites: http://www.happypenguin.org http://www.linux-gamers.net http://www.linuxgames.com
Websites dedicated to get current Windows applications/games running on Linux, easily: http://www.frankscorner.org
Half-life / Counter-Strike on Linux: http://lhl.linuxgames.com (buy this game for only $10!).
Loki (game) installers for Linux: http://liflg.sourceforge.net
Generic site for apps (includes games): http://www.freshmeat.net
No games means something different. I guess it means “my game doesn’t work” or “i don’t know how to get it working” or “i bought this Windows game and i want it on Linux” or “i can’t find any Linux games on my FXP board” or “relatively there’s far less games for Linux”. This could all be true depending on the situation.
No games however, is bullshit.
As for “Blender isn’t good enough” or “GIMP isn’t good enough” i read that so many times, but without a comprehensive analysis mostly. I’ve also heard Blender is extremely powerful once you understasnd how it works. How about buying the Blender book for only $30? It is very user-friendly.
Here’s an ok one concerning GIMP: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/04/30/217225.shtml?tid…
PS: To the person mentioning Lightwave: it runs on WINE. A screenshot was shown on WineHQ.org the other day. Also, given there was an IRIX port (LW5.6) it is portable enough to port it over to Linux.
“There was Blender, but IMO, the interface really, really needs some major work”
Yeah. If the interface is non-standard, people say the program is innovative while others say the program needs work because the interface is inconvenient.
If the interface is a clone, people say the program is easy to learn while others say the program is a copycat rip-off.
People always find a reason to whine.
Please tell me, what documentation have you tried with Blender? Did you just fire it up after which you concluded it is too hard? How about you invest some time before you jump on conclusions? Consider buying a book about Blender?
“So what are these programs? Are they as good as, say, Auto Cad? Do they have as many features or as easy to use as one available for Windows? Yea, a program is available on Linux, but that doesnt automatically mean its as good as one on an alternative OS.”
How about you go find it out yourself? Search for a review. Search on Freshmeat.net for CAD and you’ll get non-proprietary solutions. On the Net there’s also quite a few commercial CAD programs available for Linux. Some of these were mentioned in the previous designer thread here on OSnews.com.
Here’s my list.
* Blender (native)
* Maya (native)
* Pixar Renderman (native)
* Cadence (native)
* Ansys (native)
* Mental Ray (native)
* SoftImage (native)
* Lightwave (WINE)
* Cinema 4D (WINE)
* Xara 3D (WINE)
* AutoCAD (WINE) (don’t know about latest versions)
It is far from complete.
Here are some more (WINE): http://frankscorner.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=i…
http://appdb.winehq.org/appbrowse.php?catId=59
Here for mostly non-proprietary (native):
http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=CAD
I don’t know where to find more proprietary ones though.
So how many normal users even run Photoshop? Windows trolls make it sound as if a free copy of Photoshop ships with every version of Windows and everyone can and does use it to its full. How much does Photoshop cost anyway? Also it’s not as if Windows is the greatest platform for graphic design etc. If you can afford Photoshop you should be able to afford a Mac anyway.
Sure, big supported aps would be nice. But, really, why did you start with linux anyway? Its free! Thats why! I don’t me an the free = no cost free, I mean the free as in freedom that comes in part from the free = no cost free.
The reason the big software outlets are not creating Linux versions is simple: Control (The opposite of FREE or FREEdom) You cannot have it both ways.
Since “linux” can’t pay out huge sums of cash in bribes and kickbacks to promote thier empire and without the kickbacks and bribes to promote a central control mechanism to either control the users or the software direction, the CEOs of the world’s big software development companies don’t focus on Linux. Its hard to make a Porsche payment with a bunch of GNU copyleft certificates.
Personally, I don’t care. Let the sheep go where sheep go. We’re not sheep. We don’t need them. We can do it ourselves. Let the sheep suck on the Microsoft bottle while we eat Linux steak.
So far, about the only thing mainstreaming linux has caused is a corruption of the GNU idea where people capitalize on other peoples’ free labor and increased hardware support. The latter is good. The former is reprehensible.
Of course, this is just my opinion, however, it comes from 10 years of Linux use, support and observation. …and 20 years of Windows use, support and observation. If you see it different, let me know.
Hmmm. Gaming. Of course consoles will rule the gaming industry, but if I want to run an expensive bought and paid for PC game on my computer then I should have that right shouldn’t I?
Of course. That’s not the point. The point is that, increasingly, game developers are shifting their focus towards consoles. Only the big players and the very small ones will remain on PC. Some of the big players already provide Linux ports. As it happens, many of the really big name PC games will also be available for Linux, or will run under Wine/WineX. If not, you can always keep a Windows partition for gaming.
All I’m saying is that games, to me, isn’t a sufficient reason to keep Windows as a primary OS. The best games are on consoles, and the best PC games one can usually find a way to run under Linux.
As for me, I enjoy my windows gaming and hassle free desktop use (oh, and I haven’t seen a BSOD in I can’t remember).
Of course you haven’t, MS changed the default so that WinXP reboots instead of displaying a BSOD. Just because you haven’t had crashes doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen – believe me, it does.
A hassle-free desktop is very important for me – and by hassles, I include risk of virus infection, spyware, EULAs, a monstrous “Programs” menu, etc. This is why we use Linux as our main desktop OS at home – in addition to our Linux servers.
I tried Gimp, and honestly, the $100 bucks or so I spent for Paint Shop Pro
Ah, come on, now. Paint Shop Pro? I can understand people saying that Photoshop is superior to Gimp, but Paint Shop Pro? Let’s try to be a little serious here.
Gimp2 rocks.
gnucash works, and works well. it does not look like Quicken, but by that same card it also doesn’t dedicate window space to shoving ads down your throat..
gnucash is moving along well. it lacks in OFX downloading itself, but some guy (cant remember who) wrote an OFX investment statement downloader in python, which I modified to do bank statement downloads. it’s called ofx-ba.py and the site it’s hosted on seems to be a good resource for other things involving gnucash. google for that filename and you’ll find it..
I had to sniff a connection between my bank and I with Quicken to get a lot of the specific info needed for ofx-ba.py to work. the specific url for the OFX server, proper fid/fiorg.. you can get these yourself from the above mentioned method, -or- if you run Quicken there’s an OFXLOG.somethin’ file in your Quicken dir. everything you need is there. Or you could search around the web to see how people have extracted that data from MS Money trials you can d/l from microsoft.com. google is your friend.
If your bank supports Quicken or MS Money, you can download your statements and then import them into gnucash. it’s an external step, but the gnucash people do have integrated OFX downloads on the way, afaik.
but, as you see above manual hackery is another damned nuance of open source. but i’ll take a challenge of hacking on things, cause i’m a nerd like that, and it’s fun.
and i hate windows.
I have no prob. paying for a linux app. That would help linux spread to.
“This is why we use Linux as our main desktop OS at home – in addition to our Linux servers.”
“Just because you haven’t had (Windows) crashes doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen – believe me, it does.”
How about you giving your opinion on an OS you use, namely Linux, which also happens to be a subject of this article, instead of bashing competition?
Ever seen Linux crash? Does it ever happen? What is recommended solution if your Linux computer is compromised? How to get rid of rootkip malware running on your Linux?
Finally, what is slowing Linux adoption in your opinion?
“risk of virus infection, spyware, EULAs, a monstrous “Programs” menu, etc.”
and reboots, yeah, baby- those reboots that replaced Windows BSODs. It should have been resulted in tens of millions of Windows computers rebooting all the time. Right?
After all that Doom, Grim and Evil- why people not dump inherently not secure outdated OS that needs regular patching and should not be connected to the Internet without firewall?
Why don’t they switch to the inherently more secure OS, based on over 20 years of OS design, which performs so much better under reasonably well administration, using best practices which include regular patching and making sure firewall is not accidentally disabled when computer is connected to the Internet?
Why don’t they?
It’s a mystery, man. The only explanation I have seen is because people are morons, all of them but converted Linux users, who are morally superior, intellectually advanced, live in a better world and, yes: are more free.
How about you giving your opinion on an OS you use, namely Linux, which also happens to be a subject of this article, instead of bashing competition?
FYI, I also use Windows. I use it mostly at work, nowadays, but I’ve been using Windows since version 2.0. And I was responding to someone who was saying that he has not seen a BSOD since he’s installed WinXP. I merely pointed out that, in what can only be considered a marketing move, Microsoft enabled autoreboot by default when a BSOD would appear. There’s no bashing in there, simply telling the truth. You know, that thing you can’t handle?
Ever seen Linux crash? Does it ever happen?
The OS? No. I would’t even know what a kernel panic looked like, if I didn’t have a “BSOD” screen saver that displays various crash screens, from Amiga to Windows 98 to Mac to Linux.
How to get rid of rootkip malware running on your Linux?
That’s “rootkit” – and the best way to make sure that your Linux PC is safe from those is to use rkhunter:
http://www.rootkit.nl/
However, in three years of using Linux, I have yet to catch a single rootkit…
Finally, what is slowing Linux adoption in your opinion?
User apathy, and Microsoft marketing and lock-in tactics. If I was the DOJ, I’d force MS to do one simple thing: since .DOC and .XLS files are now de fact standards, I’d force them to make them real standards and open up their specs. Proprietary file formats is the single most damaging aspect of Microsoft’s monopoly.
It’s a mystery, man. The only explanation I have seen is because people are morons, all of them but converted Linux users, who are morally superior, intellectually advanced, live in a better world and, yes: are more free.
Nice trolling.
i dunno if anyone has failed to mention but there are other Photoshop looking tools that are quite the mock look on linux…hence Pixel32…
Actual price is $32
its still in development stage…
For what small task I need graphics manipulation program, I use GIMP. Paying for PhotoShop isn’t really a option if all you do is create name banner to a forum you visit.
I have used Linux as desktop OS for two years now, and I get to do all things I would need to do (office apps, graphics, web, email and gaming), easy and with no hassle. To do same in Windows XP (if I could live with the GUI), I would have paid lot of cash. This doesn’t seem to be any problem to Windows users, which in my personal experience just “download in Kazaa/DirectConnect”, starting from the OS itself.
So, in my opinion, if anything is hindering Linux use in home computers, that is piracy of proprierary software in Windows environment, not lack of proper applications in OSS.
Microsoft enabled autoreboot by default when a BSOD would appear.
So I pointed that people will be complaining about Windows rebooting all the time for no reason. Have you heard about that widespread problem? Like tens of millions of Windows boxes rebooting all the time? No? Speak up!
The OS (Linux crash)? No. I would’t even know what a kernel panic looked like.
Just because you haven’t had crashes or kernel panic doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen – believe me, it does. There’s no bashing in there, simply telling the truth. You know, that thing you can’t handle?
However, in three years of using Linux, I have yet to catch a single rootkit…
I have yet to catch a single Windows virus infecting my home network: by that logic, Windows viruses do not exist. Wait, wrong: THAT logic only applies to Linux advocates praising The Linux.
So, according to you: user apathy, and Microsoft marketing and lock-in tactics is what slowing down Linux adoption.
Same time, you run Linux servers, Linux desktops: you are not locked in. Why do you think others are: because they are dumber than you?
What’s left: Microsoft marketing and user apathy.
So, Microsoft has good marketing strategy. So, people are not inclined to change familiar product for unfamiliar. Happens all the time- it’s just business.
Solution must be, according to you: government (DOJ) should force people to switch to better software (by destroying company producing mediocre software). Because government knows better than sheep it governs.
We had it in Mother Russia since 1917, when government decided for people what to do and what to use. Of course, to decide right, government employed experts who were more than eager to give their advise. Supposed to be one happy country, but people were bitching and moaning that someone stole their choice from them, even with the best intentions.
It seems you are going same route: make people do what is best for them. It’s OK, works in some countries, but please don’t call it freedom.
Proprietary file formats is the single most damaging aspect of Microsoft’s monopoly.
Nice trolling. You should also add that as soon as Microsoft stops supporting Office97, all documents created in Word97 can not be opened. Never ever.
What, not true? What, a world will not stop if Microsoft totally dissapears today? What, MS documents can be convereted to different formats, and can be read by different competing software products- today, tomorrow, in the distant future?
I rest my case: no lock in, just people’s will to use what they use- which is not what you want them to use.
Man, are you ever looking for a fight. Too bad your debating skills are not up to par.
So I pointed that people will be complaining about Windows rebooting all the time for no reason. Have you heard about that widespread problem? Like tens of millions of Windows boxes rebooting all the time? No? Speak up!
Here you make your first fallacious statement. Did I imply that Windows computer would reboot all the time? No. Simply that it’s normal that people don’t see BSODs anymore. I said nothing about the frequency of BSODs. It seems you need to put words into my mouth or otherwise distort what I say to make a point.
Just because you haven’t had crashes or kernel panic doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen – believe me, it does. There’s no bashing in there, simply telling the truth. You know, that thing you can’t handle?
You know, 15 years ago when I started posting on USENET, repeating what the other person has said and replacing keywords in an attempt to use their argument against them was considered really bad form.
So, if you want the truth, here is the truth. I use both Windows and Linux about equally (Windows during the day, Linux during evenings). Speaking from personal experience, I’ve had a couple of BSODs in the last year. That’s not a lot – in fact it’s a lot better than it used to be – but they still happen. Meanwhile, during that time, I have not had a single Linux OS crash. I’ve had some applications crash, and three or four times (i.e. once a year) I’ve had X crash, which forced me to use the Alt+SysRq magic keys. I’ve never seen a kernel panic.
So, in my personal experience, Linux is still more stable that Windows. On my home system, Linux is a lot more stable than Windows, which kept rebooting when playing certain games.
I have yet to catch a single Windows virus infecting my home network: by that logic, Windows viruses do not exist. Wait, wrong: THAT logic only applies to Linux advocates praising The Linux.
It’s amazing to see how pro-Windows advocates are willing to put their head in the sand. As I’ve said before, I work with Windows daily. I’m also the Windows-guru-in-residence for family and friends. And while I’ve never had a rootkit, and do not know anyone who was ever rootkited, I know plenty of people around me who have had Windows viruses infect their computers. As a matter of fact, it happened to a friend of mine two days ago.
Malware on Linux is a very rare occurence. On Windows, it is a serious security concern. You can plug your ears and go “I-can’t-hear-you-la-la-la” (considering your response, that seems to be just about your level of maturity anyway), but that won’t change these facts.
Same time, you run Linux servers, Linux desktops: you are not locked in. Why do you think others are: because they are dumber than you?
Try to make some sense, please. I am not locked in because I am not at the mercy of a single vendor.
Solution must be, according to you: government (DOJ) should force people to switch to better software (by destroying company producing mediocre software). Because government knows better than sheep it governs.
Again, you put words into my mouth. I am a libertarian leftist – why would I agree with governments deciding for people? Of course I’m against that. But I also think it’s the government’s duty to protect the people from aggressive monopolies who threaten innovation and competition.
The government’s job is not to favor anyone, but to make sure that there is a level playing field so that monopolies such as Microsoft cannot abuse their status to crush the competition.
We had it in Mother Russia since 1917, when government decided for people what to do and what to use.
And here, in America, we had Black Monday in 1929, which proved that unfettered capitalism was self-destructive and could not work. Which is why we have a mixed economic system now. It’s not just a free-for-all: there are rules to abide by, rules which Microsoft has repeatedly broken in the past.
It seems you are going same route: make people do what is best for them. It’s OK, works in some countries, but please don’t call it freedom.
Freedom isn’t just freedom for big corporations to do what they want, it’s also freedom from oppressive monopolies for citizens.
The irony, of course, is that by defending Microsoft you are the one who is against competition and choice, you are in favor of a company who wants to decide for everyone what’s best for them. Domination by a company is no better than domination by a government – in fact, it’s worse, because one can change and overthrow a government that no longer represents the people.
Nice trolling. You should also add that as soon as Microsoft stops supporting Office97, all documents created in Word97 can not be opened. Never ever.
Boy, you really have a problem with making thoughtful argument, don’t you? The problem with .DOC and .XLS is that they have become de facto standards. Everybody uses them. However, in engineering and science, standards are always public. People have access to the specs. But no one save Microsoft has access to the office document specs, and therefore they are abusing their monopoly on document file format to maintain their monopoly on Office suites.
This has nothing to do with Office 97 files not being able to be opened (which is false – you can import Office 97 files in Office 2000, Office XP and Office 2k3). This has everything to do with Microsoft being afraid to compete on a level playing field, as I said earlier. And yet MS cheerleaders like you continue to defend the fact that MS should decide for everyone else what is good for them…
What, MS documents can be convereted to different formats, and can be read by different competing software products- today, tomorrow, in the distant future?
Give me a single program that can read and convert Office documents with 100% accuracy. Show me where the specs for the Office file formats may be found, so that I can make my own MS Office-compatible program.
I rest my case
You have no case. Microsoft abuses its monopoly to stifle competition, and you’re on the sides waving pompoms.
Privet! Eto Ken. Ya cvami soglacen. (Mozhet buit Ya bui po-anglisky napicali?) Ah, nichevo. Po moemu mneniu, vui pravi. Sorry, my Russian is a bit rusty.
I believe that the linux movement is good for the IT industry, and I am all for freedom of choice. I don’t think thought that for one second linux will make a dent in desktop use in the near future. I would like to see it, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen. In the “Linux Must be Slicker to Grab Desktop Space” posted on the 26th, The summit guys were hitting on key points I think which will steer linux in the right direction with regard to home desktop use.
And much of that article is in direct relation to this one. The second para stated, “Cosmetic adjustments, better business applications — and more of them — and improved marketing will help turn the tide, according to speakers at the Desktop Linux Summit here.”
I think “better business applications –and more of them,” is a pretty significant factor when it comes to linux superiority on the desktop. And this is coming from the summit speakers.
It’s funny, I was browsing the Xandros linux forums, looking to assist noobs who just converted from windows to linux, and I stopped and realized all the problems windows faithfuls were having getting what I consider the easiest of linux distros to run actually running correctly and administering it. Did not seem to me to be a smooth ride for many. Most of the problems are package installation/administration, in Xandros! For those that don’t know, Xandros is arguably one of the most user friendly distros out there, almost there with Lindows.
So, it is my belief that instead of arguing what is better than what, windows users, let linux do its thing. I use both, windows is mainly my do everything box. Mainly because I don’t have the time to futz around with the OS to get things done. My linux box is my server baby. I barely touch it. Two reasons: the easy administration is simply not their like it is in windows, and application support. And no, emulators don’t cut it for me. If I want to run a favorite windows program, I’d rather run it on windows. I run Xandros Desktop OS Version 2 Business @ $130 for those that want to know. It comes with Crossover, which is a very good emulator, but it cannot run some programs that I want.
It all depends on preference. I am tired of this Windows vs. Linux battle and wish both sides would see their benefits and quit dismissing them.
Windows users, let me say this, if you’re concerned. Linux may be a threat, but not in the near future on the home desktop in my opinion. There is about 90% at least of the market share that linux has to eat through in order to get there, and with the release of Longhorn, and users investment in continued satisfaction with XP, I don’t think that’ll happen anytime soon.
Remember though, competition breeds innovation, and whether linux users believe it or not, I think this will force Microsoft to come through.
Those are just my thoughts, though. Poka!
A men! You are right on the ball with your reply to Russian Guy. I moved a little over a month ago my home system to Arch Linux. Sure, the distro requires some learning but I wanted to know how to set Linux up and have a clean install with minimal services and tools.
Since setting up Arch Linux, I have found something quite unusual, I no longer have to piddle about my time running defrag’s, Adaware, Regestry cleaners and a whole host of other crappy tools to try and keep the system running smoothly. It just works. Updates are very simple and require no reboots unless I decide to update my kernel and I am coming to terms with Gimp 2 after being a professional Photoshop user (my work involves among otherthings, graphic design on Win2K boxes).
Using my home system is now an effortless joy. Granted installing some software that isn’t in the Arch Linux package repository is a cow but it is easy to maintain once installed (wanting to get Rosegarden up and running). My only gripe is I can’t get my Saitek X45 running with Wine-X and Il2 Forgotten Battles (that aside, the game runs flawlessly). UT 2004 and Savage run fine in native mode and were very easy to install. I’m not going back and I now find myself using Linux daily and looking forward to developments on the Linux front down the track.
[Foreword: I’ve been called leftist by many people in everyday life, but really am a libertarian left-of-center if we’re gonna use labels to make reading go faster 😉 ]
Lotso opinions, some interesting, others regurgitations… but it’s all good.
However, I don’t agree with a nun or rooskie at different points in their respective arguments. I will say this tho: leave proprietary formats where they are, in a place I like to call “the island of crappy ideas.” Open Source is gaining so many great contributions every day, I starting to think we can really pull it off. Make our own “de facto standards” for file types, and let enough flexiblilty remain so we can still get our data from the old proprietary files and save them into the new, hopefully better, Open files… The Open Source gurus have done this before, they didn’t get their panties in a bunch because Microsoft had near enough a “de facto standard” with DirectX 3D… we still see some great stuff using OpenGL. And it’s beautiful!
That’s what I call freedom.
I also don’t get when one debater accuses another of bad logic and then immediately follows with a completely irrational series of ideas. Rooskie wasn’t defending MS, I believe he was saying let it die a slow death. We can do what we need to using our own will.
As usual, we all seem to be arguing over nothing.
I’ll say this in reference to virii in Windows and Linux: I ain’t afraid to open attachments in sylpheed
Unfortunately, you can’t come up with a “de facto” standard – only the market can decide that. And, unfortunately, the market has spoken here – MS Office file formats are the standard. In order to challenge Microsoft’s hegemony, alternatives like OpenOffice have to reverse-engineer the file formats and provide whatever compatibility they can get if they want even a shadow of a chance. As it happens, it is an extremely hard thing to do, and they still have ways to go before they get 100% compatibility – and when they do get there, all MS will have to do his change their specs again for their new version of Office. Make no mistakes about it: proprietary file formats are Microsoft’s main weapon against Linux (well, that and patents, if we are to believe some experts).
Also, regarding Russian Guy’s comment: I really think you have misinterpreted them. He’s a staunch Microsoft supporter – you have to be to equate the scope of malware problems in Linux and in Windows. He’s a long-time OSNews poster, and he’s always been overly critical of Linux and Linux advocates, while generally acting as a cheerleader for anything Microsoft. The man has an agenda.
I would probably be running linux at home right now if I could find a good video editor. I edit home movies as one of my hobbies and I use Pinnacle Studio for Windows (although, due to stability issues, I will be moving to ScreenBlast Movie Studio sometime in the future). Unfortunately, there’s nothing out in the Linux world that’s a nice video editor. The closest that I’ve found is Main Concept’s Main Actor beta for Linux. Unfortunately, I haven’t had the time or hardware to really try it out and I certainly won’t commit to beta software with all of my home movies (there’s already far too much of a time investment there); especially if Windows software does at least as good a job if not better.
I think Linux is great and I’m not that impressed with Windows but, like many others, I’m held captive by my software.
I hear you. Video editing is still a work in progress in Linux. There are some promising projects, such as KDEnlive and Cinellera, but so far I’ve not seen anything that is either stable or usable enough for me. However, I do know that there’s a tremendous amount of interest among developers for Linux Video Editing, so I figure this is a temporary drought. We should be getting a good low-to-medium end video editing app that is both stable and usable pretty soon (the high end already has Piranha, but it’s bloody expensive!)
“Pinnacle Studio for Windows ”
Doesn’t that run only Pinnacle’s hardware?
There’s some hardware that Pinnacle makes that ONLY works under windows.
Hmmm, that may very well be. It’s hard reading into people’s comments if you don’t know what they sound like in real life. Point taken, regardless.
Here’s something I don’t think has been brought up yet, to get aid the community in prepping Linux for the desktop, Distrowatch.com has started voting on donating cash to Open projects, once a week. It’s pretty sweet. I like that. Pure capitalism… investing in what’s in our interests. So far I’m aware that GNUCash and Quanta have recieved something like a couple of hundred bucks each. That’s great start.
The chicken and egg problem regarding hardware manufacturer provided drivers has been there for as long as I can remember. I’ve emailed several of my ex-favorite hardware companies and asked them the status of their linux driver development. I don’t ask them whether they have any or not, I ask where they are at with the development. I haven’t had much success, but the situation is better than it was just 2 yrs ago.