Linux may be entrenched in the data center, but it will need some sprucing up before the upstart operating system grabs a significant spot on the desktop PC, says News.com. Elsewhere, Mandrake sees good demand for desktop Linux.
Linux Backers Foresee Desktop Gains
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I have just declared Fedora 2 test 2 unusable, I was looking for the download link on Mandrakes site and I simply could not find one that did not require me to buy a mandrake club membership. linuxiso.org spits a “file not found” when trying to DL MD 10.
I have not tried any distros since 2.6 accept for Fedora 2 test 2 (which BTW, has no NTFS support and still requires I mount and unmount my cdrom), but nearly all of the Linux distros I try are either beta or alpha quality.
It seems like I can spend 5 minutes with any Linux distro and have a 3 page bug and annoyance list.
If I wrote an honest review of any given Linux distro the advocates would probably threaten my life. Desktop Linux in my opinion is little more than something to do when I am bored and a good way to use some of my CD-R’s
Desktop Linux in my opinion is little more than something to do when I am bored and a good way to use some of my CD-R’s
Same here. I get the itch to try it about every year or so, and my impression is that “Well, it’s a little better than last year, but it’s still Linux.”
I love the core OS and the nifty little tools it comes with (some of which I brought with me back to Windows), but the love affair ends soon after I fire up the GUI. KDE/Gnome (last I tried was 3.1/2.4 respectively) with kernel 2.4) are certainly useable and in some ways, are better than Windows, but there’s not quite enough integration with the core OS, not enough integration with each other, the file managers suck the big one, and many of the desktop apps are either alpha quality, so-so, or are available on Windows
I hate the word “upstart”! >:(
How old does an operating system have to be before they stop calling it an “upstart”? >:( Why isn’t windows called an upstart operating system?
Why isn’t windows called an upstart operating system?
Because Windows pre-dates the web sites that call Linux an upstart.
@Jim
Your 3 pages of bugs/annoyances are valid. Step inside the server room and there will be 3 pages (if not more) of bugs/annoyances fired towards Windows as a server OS.
My “extremist” opinion is that their will never be a user friendly OS/desktop that *everyone* can pick up and use. I develop GUI software, so I’ve heard time and time again that “if you build an idiot proof program, they’ll come out with a bigger idiot.”
There are people who grew up using Windows or MacOS and that’s what they’re comfortable with. People who “grew up” using Unix at home/school/work are probably more familiar with the command line. Now we’re looking at a new generation of youngsters getting involved with using *nix OSes. They will be the driving force for desktop Linux.
The first poster mentioned that he had to manually mount and unmount the cdrom drive. Is there some kind of problem with supermount as to why this isn’t built into almost all distro kernels? It seems like a no-brainer to me considering that having to manually mount and dismount is completly fubar. Now it was trivial for me to rebuild my kernel in gentoo with the option enabled and then add a line to /etc/fstab, but for a more newbie/mainstream distro like fedora not to have this is bewildering to say the least.
I used to agree with you 100%, and I once kept switching.
I’d use linux for a month, and get fed up with a certain problem or annoyance, and go back to windows. Then after a month of Windows, I get annoyed by something and go back to linux.
Let’s face it, all Operating Systems are monsters.
I personally have just come to feel more comfortable with the Linix CLI. When I go to college, I hope to pursue that path.
your experience is exactly why i hate this kind of article, its like tech magazines do the same old rehash whenever they have nothing better to do.
It is possible to have a well integrated, user friendly linux. unfortunately, that involves patching the crap out of everything in it, which produces bizzare bugs with alarming frequency.
IMHO, if you know what your doing, or at least are willing to learn, install slack or gentoo. If you dont qualify in either of those categories, then really, dont bother with linux yet, because in all honesty, it isnt even close for use and administration my the average user.
(and to anyone who flames me for saying something bad about linux, ive been using it as my primary os for two and a half years now, and am enjoying myself more every day i use it.)
Oh my god! You declared an unstable beta product unstable? AMAZING! And since you did install a beta, I am sure you actually read the release notes or did the misculine bit of reaserch into why its unstable, right?
Heck, I am not running FC2T2 and I know why its unstable and how to make it work, and why this wont apply to the final FC2.
SELinux is something that Redhat/Fedora want to beta test so that when they get it working properly in future releases. They enabled it in the betas by default and there is a way to disable it (but since you read the release notes you must know how). Since they weren’t able to get SELinux ready for prime time intime for the final release, they will be disabling it for the final version (an dI believe test 3), but will allow people who still want to test it to install it as a ‘hidden’ option. So FC2 wont have the unusable problem of the tests.
Now, you will say “But the average user dosn’t care and shouldnt know about all of this!”, to which I will respond that the average user shouldnt be installing beta tests without even reading up on the WELL KNOWN issues with them.
As for how to download the Mandrake ISO’s. It really can’t be that hard. I just did it yesterday and I have been only once on thier website like 2 years ago. GO to thier homepage, click download on the top ‘menu’, click the bottom green ‘now’ button,
I have been using Linux exclusively since 1999, Redhat, Mandrake, Redhat, and Fedora. I can do more with my system than any of my friends can do with windows and I do it for free.
It works for you, it works for me, it works for a locked down corporate desktop, but it doesn’t work for someone that has no linux experience and wants to install their spiffy new digital camera….unless something like Suse or Mandrake(which I don’t use) already has all of those issues that Project Utopia is trying to address figured out and is keeping it a secret.
“unless something like Suse or Mandrake(which I don’t use) already has all of those issues that Project Utopia is trying to address figured out and is keeping it a secret.”
IMO, this is one of the major problems with Linux. I really think if it has any chance of making it onto you average desktop, there needs to be one choice to use! The great thing about Windows and Mac OS is that there is only one flavor, so things are going to be consistent from one computer to the next. So some Joe buys a digital camera and it works on his computer, but what happens if he takes it to his buddies place and it doesnt work on that particular flavor of Linux. I also have to ask if Linux were made to be more mainstream, would many of you still use it? To me, one of the big strengths of Linux is that you can do more with your OS, as compared to Windows, which is somewhat dumbed down. I think you would see a gradual dumbing down of Linux to make it usable to average Joe.
Hi
“The great thing about Windows and Mac OS is that there is only one flavor,”
is that so. i thought there were multiple versions. xp pro,xp home, 2003 pro, 2003 web, ce, palm, mac desktop, mac server and so on
Yea, Linux still has a lot of maturation to do. But, an average user with will power can learn to use it now. That wasn’t true 5 years ago.
Linux has come a long way. I think it will be the GENERIC operating system for the masses within about 10 years AND it will still be free.
“The great thing about Windows and Mac OS is that there is only one flavor”
Then go with FreeBSD. There is only one.
The great thing about Windows and Mac OS is that there is only one flavor, so things are going to be consistent from one computer to the next. So some Joe buys a digital camera and it works on his computer, but what happens if he takes it to his buddies place and it doesnt work on that particular flavor of Linux.
I disagree. What makes people love using Windows and Mac OS is that they are pretty easy to use and don’t take a lot of time to set up and maintain (well, Windows isn’t easy to maintain for the average user, but it’s easy to keep running).
DBUS/udev/HAL will make seamless integration in Linux a possibility, and the distributions that use them will make it a reality.
The number one gripe new users have with Linux is that either something doesn’t work, or doesn’t work the way it is expected to. Having to choose a distribution to use is way down on the list.
I think we can agree on one thing: not everyone is ready for Linux and Linux is not ready for everyone. I think these statements will remain true for the near future, and possibly for much longer.
However,who is Linux ready? It seems that those most ready to use Linux must have a spirit of exploration and patience. There is a learning curve, but I also explain to people that there is an equally steep unlearning curve.
If you are very good at using and interpreting the Windows-way-of-life, then you will be shocked to find out that there are many alternatives, and most flavors of Linux don’t try to force you into a single alternative. They leave it up to you whether or not you accept the defaults or explore the very wide world of alternate software.
To each his or her own. However, the simple truth is that those who are “ready” for Linux, i.e. those persons who will will find the most enjoyment of using a Linux system, are those who are willing to learn it and be patient with it.
This is absolutely not saying anyone is inferior or stupid, just that we all have different levels of comfort/time/ability to play with a system and bring it to our liking. Also, there’s no shame in saying that you don’t like the way a Linux system does things. Heck, that’s the reason many hackers get involved: to change something they don’t like. However, with Linux the door is open for this, you can change the things that bother you, though the route to doing so may be hard. It also leaves you with a bit of responsibility to do so if you can.
For some years one argument against Windows was, that it uses much ressources. But look at GNOME or KDE, they are slow and they are huge too and there are quick hacks like “forking kdeinit”.
I tested GNOME 2.6 since the release date and there are so many bugs … I think it could be a beta release, but no final. It was the same with GNOME 2.4.
Or for example Firefox or Thunderbird. Extremly slow (uses much CPU time!) and to fetch one mail you need 10-20MB RAM. Very nice!
And fonts are a big problem! My fonts in KDE, GNOME or PekWM are all a little different. Some applications ignore GDK_USE_XFT and others doesn’t have XFT-support. And it seems that my fonts in GNOME started with GDM are different to fonts if GNOME is startet with startx =gnome-session. And I don’t know if KDE uses hinting … nevertheless the FAA in GNOME looks better.
And the workspace handling in KDE or GNOME is annoying. After starting Mozilla on workspace 1 and switching to workspace 2, Mozilla doesn’t opens his windows on workspace 1. Maybe it’s X fault, I don’t know.
If it doesn’t work for you, don’t use it.
If you don’t want to learn to fly an plane, take the bus.
If you want to fly, pay someone the fly you. Xandros Pro or MS Windows or Mac OS come to mind.
If you really want Linux to work for you in the state it is now being presented to the world in, then learn how to make it work for you. If it still doesn’t work for you, then don’t use it. But the term “work” means you have to work at it. Free things sometimes take a little effort on your part to make work for your needs. That is why you pay for the things that already work or are suppose to work. Then again, you could simply wait ’til some of the Linux distros matures more and then buy one.
Any way one looks at it, Linux is simply “not” for everyone, nor does it “need” to be, nor is anyone “obligated” to make it work for everyone. Take it or leave it. You have nothing to complain about. Everyone has choices, choices, and more choices. You are “free” to choose. So choose.
Good luck! or maybe I should say, may you have fruitful endevors.
For some years one argument against Windows was, that it uses much ressources. But look at GNOME or KDE, they are slow and they are huge too and there are quick hacks like “forking kdeinit”.
I am running Gnome 2.6 and at 512 MB of memory I’m not hitting swap at all. In Windows, you hit swap even at 1 GB of memory. From when the kernel gets uncompressed till when I see a bash prompt I have to wait 15 seconds. From ‘startx’ to being able to use Gnome I wait about 7. Windows takes a long time to load.
I tested GNOME 2.6 since the release date and there are so many bugs … I think it could be a beta release, but no final. It was the same with GNOME 2.4.
Gnome tends to release the new milestones early to get more testers, anticipating a more solid release. For instance, setting file associations in nautilus doesn’t work for me. Instead of whining at the incompetence of the Gnome developers, I’m filing a bug report (though I bet there already is one open for this).
Or for example Firefox or Thunderbird. Extremly slow (uses much CPU time!) and to fetch one mail you need 10-20MB RAM. Very nice!
So to fetch 200 mails you would need 2000-4000MB RAM? The binaries are a few megs apiece, so that would account for most of it. Besides, they don’t use up too much CPU time for me (though since I installed Gnome I use Epiphany).
Without qualifying that statement with actual numbers, I don’t know what your definition of ‘much CPU time’ is. I certainly doubt they load much faster in Windows.
Which brings me to my next point–if you’re going to criticize Linux, criticize Linux, not programs that are available on many platforms like the Mozilla family.
And fonts are a big problem! My fonts in KDE, GNOME or PekWM are all a little different. Some applications ignore GDK_USE_XFT and others doesn’t have XFT-support. And it seems that my fonts in GNOME started with GDM are different to fonts if GNOME is startet with startx =gnome-session. And I don’t know if KDE uses hinting … nevertheless the FAA in GNOME looks better.
fontconfig solved all of these problems. What applications are problematic for you?
And the workspace handling in KDE or GNOME is annoying. After starting Mozilla on workspace 1 and switching to workspace 2, Mozilla doesn’t opens his windows on workspace 1. Maybe it’s X fault, I don’t know
“I have not tried any distros since 2.6 accept for Fedora 2 test 2 (which BTW, has no NTFS support and still requires I mount and unmount my cdrom), but nearly all of the Linux distros I try are either beta or alpha quality.”
If you really want one that’s superbly easy and well finished you might try one that you pay for, such as JDS, Suse, Lycoris, Xandros, or even Lindows. You seem to think you can get something without spending any time or money; well unfortunately the rules of life apply to everything.
Fedora, while based on an old distribution, is essentially like a used car. The new owners just got it and they are running into problems with the things they want to change. Also, you may want to consider that anything labeled TEST is not going to be stable or well finished.
If you want a highly polished distribution that’s stable, but not necessarily easy you may go with some of the more mature distributions like Slackware or Debian. But seriously man, sometimes you just get what you pay for; THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. All we are doing is opening the recipe. You still gotta cook it!
And the workspace handling in KDE or GNOME is annoying. After starting Mozilla on workspace 1 and switching to workspace 2, Mozilla doesn’t opens his windows on workspace 1. Maybe it’s X fault, I don’t know
x has nothing to do with workspaces. Window managers simulate the effect by ‘hiding’ windows that are off of the current workspace and ‘showing’ those that are. Window managers have to make the choice of which workspace to load new child windows into. If you don’t like the behavior, file a bug report. It’s not like the code couldn’t handle it–you just have a personal preference.
On that note, if you have a lot of these personal preferences, wouldn’t you rather be on a platform where you could pick and choose what apps you use, and actually realize the solution to these issues?
You don’t even get workspaces in Windows.
” ‘Why isn’t windows called an upstart operating system?’
Because Windows pre-dates the web sites that call Linux an upstart. ”
The linux kernel likely also predates those websites. How many decades old does an OS have to be? I guess only Unix is not an upstart.
When was NT started…maybe 1993/92 (started not released). Linux started at a similar time. When it’s referred to as an upstart the author loses credibility IMO.
Anonymous said:
> I really think if it has any chance of making it onto you average desktop,
> there needs to be one choice to use! The great thing about Windows and
> Mac OS is that there is only one flavor,
and:
> I think you would see a gradual dumbing down of Linux to make it usable
> to average Joe.
Answered your own question there really didn’t you?! The whole point about Linux is there is unlikely to ever be just *one* vendor, because no single design and configuration of operating system can be all things to all men (or women).
Linux’s diversity, freedom and customisation is its biggest strength and is why all the major intenational players (IBM, Oracle, HP, Fujitsu, Sun etc.) except one (Microsoft) are rallying around it. They won’t need to be subject to the whim of a single company – which is great for them as far as the big picture goes.
MS will be a mid-tier business software vendor at best within 15 years – it’s an economic certainty.
And the workspace handling in KDE or GNOME is annoying. After starting Mozilla on workspace 1 and switching to workspace 2, Mozilla doesn’t opens his windows on workspace 1. Maybe it’s X fault, I don’t know.
As a previous post mentioned, it is not X’s fault, it is your window manager’s fault. I use Window Maker and can set whether or not a program will open in a certain workspace and if the child windows must stay in the same workspace or not.
“MS will be a mid-tier business software vendor at best within 15 years – it’s an economic certainty.”
When pigs fly.
“MS will be a mid-tier business software vendor at best within 15 years – it’s an economic certainty.”
Even if this were true, you’re not going to see Linux on top – at least not in its current incarnation. For Linux to *really* take off on the desktop, what you’re going to see is a company like AOL who takes the ‘bare essentials’ of Linux and builds all their proprietary crap on top of it. That way, they just have to release the source code to whatever GPL components they use while keeping the rest to themselves.
So, you’re going to have one or two very proprietary Linux distros (AOL Linux, or whatever) and then the free distros like Debian.
Since all the commercial scum will most surely back the proprietary distros, most of the stuff they’re building will surely not work in the free ones.
In order to have a truly free and open source system as Linux is now as king of the desktop, you’d have to kill Corporate America to do it (afterall, if Windows dies, the spyware vendors are going to migrate to whatever’s big at the time), and that is a much bigger problem than Microsoft.
And the workspace handling in KDE or GNOME is annoying. After starting Mozilla on workspace 1 and switching to workspace 2, Mozilla doesn’t opens his windows on workspace 1. Maybe it’s X fault, I don’t know
Then just run this script, call it MyFirefox
#/bin/bash
#BROWSER is the path to mozilla or firefox
BROWSER=/usr/bin/mozill-firefox
#Check to see if mozilla is already running
$BROWSER -remote “ping()” &> /dev/null
if [ “$?” == “0” ]; then
$BROWSER -remote “openURL(“http://www.google.com“, new-window)” &
else
$BROWSER &
fi
save it and make it executable, your problem solved
Now, get back to work
PS these question should be posted on the forum.
“So, you’re going to have one or two very proprietary Linux distros (AOL Linux, or whatever) and then the free distros like Debian. Since all the commercial scum will most surely back the proprietary distros, most of the stuff they’re building will surely not work in the free ones. ”
You say it like it’s a bad thing.
“In order to have a truly free and open source system as Linux is now as king of the desktop, you’d have to kill Corporate America to do it (afterall, if Windows dies, the spyware vendors are going to migrate to whatever’s big at the time), and that is a much bigger problem than Microsoft.”
[slogan]
Use AOLinux: It’s a honeypot of an OS.
# I am running Gnome 2.6 and at 512 MB of memory I’m not
# hitting swap at all. In Windows, you hit swap even at 1 GB of memory.
Swapping or Paging in general isn’t a bad thing. And to use GNOME with Firefox or Thunderbird or OpenOffice with 128MB isn’t funny. Even if you have 256MB this doesn’t mean that 512MB are free.
# So to fetch 200 mails you would need 2000-4000MB RAM?
I never said something like this.
# I certainly doubt they load much faster in Windows.
Firefox under windows is a little bit faster (Mozilla too), but that doesn’t matter, nevertheless it’s slow. It’s slow on all plattforms.
# if you’re going to criticize Linux, criticize Linux, not
# programs that are available on many platforms like the Mozilla family.
Please read my posting again, I don’t criticize Linux (I never used this word!). I mainly wrote about the to big desktops KDE and GNOME. If you run them on Linux or Tru64 or Solaris doesn’t matter, the problem is the same.
# x has nothing to do with workspaces. Window managers
# simulate the effect by ‘hiding’ windows that are off of
# the current workspace and ‘showing’ those that are
Exactly this is the problem. The windowmanager doesn’t know (to which time) which application opens a window. I discussed this earlier, because I thought it was possible. For example PekWM has so called autoproperties to define on which desktop applications should start … but then they start there and only there. X lags this feature and the windowmaker isn’t able to handle it, when a process starts other processes and if they opens windows or not. But we don’t need to discuss this, because I don’t know enough about the X details to bring realy good arguments.
@DrLinux:
Thank you for your help, but I don’t understand what this has to do with my “problem”. (:
I’ve installed SUSE 9.0 on a ThinkPad R40. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but the Linux user experience isn’t even close to OS X. Its still very rough around the edges. Tasks like updating to KDE 3.2 are difficult and complex. On the Macintosh, they couldn’t be easier. I like Linux and I want to learn it, but I dont see it as a Macintosh replacement at this time. In a few more year, who knows? But for now, Linux is an interesting diversion but I do my real work and play in OS X.
Swapping or Paging in general isn’t a bad thing. And to use GNOME with Firefox or Thunderbird or OpenOffice with 128MB isn’t funny. Even if you have 256MB this doesn’t mean that 512MB are free.
The good thing about Linux is that with 128 MB of memory, you could put together a decent desktop. Heck, with just 64, you could probably get by with fluxbox+rox+firebird. I think to get the featureset that Gnome and KDE provide, you have to have at least 256mb RAM. If not, there are still alternatives.
Firefox under windows is a little bit faster (Mozilla too), but that doesn’t matter, nevertheless it’s slow. It’s slow on all plattforms.
Compared to what? Firefox is faster than IE (especially when considering that IE is pre-loaded into memory.
Please read my posting again, I don’t criticize Linux (I never used this word!). I mainly wrote about the to big desktops KDE and GNOME. If you run them on Linux or Tru64 or Solaris doesn’t matter, the problem is the same.
Ahh–ok. I apologize for misunderstanding. However, this is a desktop Linux article.
Exactly this is the problem. The windowmanager doesn’t know (to which time) which application opens a window. I discussed this earlier, because I thought it was possible. For example PekWM has so called autoproperties to define on which desktop applications should start … but then they start there and only there. X lags this feature and the windowmaker isn’t able to handle it, when a process starts other processes and if they opens windows or not. But we don’t need to discuss this, because I don’t know enough about the X details to bring realy good arguments.
X is much more configurable than any of it’s counterparts…
@DrLinux:
Thank you for your help, but I don’t understand what this has to do with my “problem”. (:
”
I’ve installed SUSE 9.0 on a ThinkPad R40. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but the Linux user experience isn’t even close to OS X. Its still very rough around the edges. Tasks like updating to KDE 3.2 are difficult and complex. On the Macintosh, they couldn’t be easier.
”
If you had apt installed with synaptic, updating to kde 3.2 would be easy, but it would break some of the things suse engineered into the desktop. Why? Because kde 3.2 just came out and the suse engineered packages are not yet ready, and in addition suse will probably want you to pay for 9.1.
Instead of paying, I installed 9.0 via ftp and I’ll wait until 9.1 comes out on the ftp servers.
I have to say Mandrake 10 official makes me believe linux desktop is here. I have been using it at work and at home.
I concur with that. Mandrake 10 is amazing, and I never like any version of Mandrake before, and believe me I did give them a few weeks testing time before changing to something else.
I put Mandrake 10 on one of my machines, and three friends that have tried it have went home and installed it on there own machines. These friends are out and out Windows fanboys, but once they seen Manny 10 in action they was hooked.
There is something flawed about the people who visit this site, (me included usually hahaha), whenever there is a post about Windows or Linux, it automatically turns into a slagging match, my os is better than your os.. Grow up, this all happened in the early eighties… my spectrum is better than your c64, same old tune..
A linux post is different though, as it involves linux users arguing amongst themselves about distros/window managers/kernels/apps/cost v free etc etc. Why ?
The very first post on this by Jim, he said he downloaded a beta Fedora core, and it did not work as he expected. What happened ? He got slagged off as if he was a complete muppet.
I don’t know Jim, but if he is a typical Windows user, he will think the “latest” version number is the current release, so what does he do ? Downloads the “latest” (testing) version, and there is where his problem starts.
Instead of pointing this out to him he gets abuse. Typical of this board.
Everyone else who was yapping about apps misbehaving, running slow etc etc, why tell us ? we won’t fix it for you.. Tell the developers, it will get sorted.
This site should get people to register before posting, then maybe also a button we can click to remove the complete retards.
Darius:
Just don’t fire up the gui, it’s fine.
For some years one argument against Windows was, that it uses much ressources. But look at GNOME or KDE, they are slow and they are huge too and there are quick hacks like “forking kdeinit”.
Go try out XFce4. It is both fast and user-friendly. There is life beyond the overhyped KDE/GNOME!
(And GNOME != GNOME; Linux desktop != KDE; etc)
# Compared to what? Firefox is faster than IE
# (especially when considering that IE is pre-loaded into memory.
Firefox under windows is faster than Firefox under linux (or Unix and Unix-like OS).
IE is clearly the fastest browser, the render engine _IS_ the fastest. But that doesn’t matter, the browser is huge (preloaded), the browser is buggy, it is to much integrated and it is a security problem. And yes, the Unix port is dead and there was never a port to Linux. Therefore this browser isn’t an alternative … but it’s a fast crap. <:
And I don’t like preloading. But there is a preload feature for KDE too … “sorry, our software is really to slow, therefore we have a preload feature”.
# However, this is a desktop Linux article.
Yep, but KDE or GNOME aren’t a Linux thing. (:
# X is much more configurable than any of it’s counterparts…
Maybe. Maybe it’s the best, but that doesn’t mean that’s good. <: X is very old and there a many better approaches. And XFree86 is only one implementation, there are other X servers.
Doesn’t matter, at the moment there is no alternative. Berlin/Fresco isn’t ready, X2 isn’t ready, Y isn’t ready. (: Maybe they will never replace X. How knows … (:
“IE is clearly the fastest browser, the render engine _IS_ the fastest”
No, the latest firefox renders pages MUCH faster than IE.
# No, the latest firefox renders pages MUCH faster than IE.
If you think so …
On my computers firefox has real problems to render two big pages at the same time while compiling some big tasks in the background. IE hasn’t this problem.
The Firefox cache is clearly slower, very noticable.
JavaScript in Firefox can be _REALLY_ slow down the whole browser and system (doesn’t matter if it is Windows, FreeBSD, Tru64 or Linux … Intel, AMD or Alpha).
If Firefox hasn’t the CPU for itself, a click on my bookmarks show only a gray box, the browser slows down, etc. (Gecko renders the GUI too). It’s the problem unter Windows, Tru64, FreeBSD and Linux, on Intel, AMD and Alpha. It’s not my fault or the plattform fault, it’s only Firefox’s fault.
Maybe you don’t know what fast software is … Firefox isn’t. <:
Sorry, but I have forgotten something.
There are other things. FTP directories with thousands of files for example. Firefox seems dead for 30 seconds or so.
And this isn’t a problem with the 0.8 release, it’s an problem of all other versions and Mozilla too.
The downloadmanger seems sometimes dead too, if an server doesn’t respond.
“On my computers firefox has real problems to render two big pages at the same time while compiling some big tasks in the background. IE hasn’t this problem. ”
Show me the pages.
“The Firefox cache is clearly slower, very noticable.”
Don’t you have broadband, turn it off you don’t need 1990 technology in 2004.
“If Firefox hasn’t the CPU for itself, a click on my bookmarks show only a gray box”
Then you have a configuration problem, I am running my CPU at 100% right now and had no “grey box” when I clicked bookmarks.
Aside from that I said FASTEST rendering engine.
Not to mention no activex installations without my knowledge, and no pop-ups/pop-overs. There are 10000 reasons to use firefox, and one to use IE.
# Show me the pages.
The page doesn’t matter. You can take a page with many pictures for example. Or try a ftp with large directories, for example ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages/All/
To scroll while loading is really crap.
# Then you have a configuration problem
The problem is everywhere the same, home, university, work, friends, on single and dual Alphas, on Intel, with FreeBSD, Linux and Windows. I am sure it isn’t my fault. But I said this before.
# Don’t you have broadband, turn it off you don’t
# need 1990 technology in 2004.
Sorry, but this is idiotic. Therefore I don’t think that this discussion is usefull for me …
1) Firefox isn’t the only application which uses Internet. There are others applications or other computers or other networks.
2) Cache is faster than a slow connection, for example because an server has too much load or a slow connection. A handshake with a high ping needs some time. It doesn’t matter if you have broadband or not.
And to buy broadband only because the software is slow is a bad solution.
# There are 10000 reasons to use firefox, and one to use IE.
Right, that’s my opinion. I said it before.
# Not to mention no activex installations without my
# knowledge, and no pop-ups/pop-overs.
Don’t forget PNG alpha channels and MathML. (:
“To scroll while loading is really crap. ”
I’ll agree with that, it needs work there.
I have yet to miss having cache enabled, even in IE I have had it set to only 1MB since I went cable modem 4 years ago. 😉
There is no need for caching in 2004, if you need to use your browser cache because a server has a slow response then they need to get with the program and upgrade their connection.
😛
I think it’s unsocial to produce unnecessary costs.