Market researcher IDC expects to announce within weeks that Linux’ PC market share in 2003 hit 3.2%, overtaking Apple Computer Inc.’s Macintosh software (as reported a few weeks ago it has fallen at 1.8%, for the first time). And the researcher expects Linux to capture 6% of this market by 2007. That’s still tiny compared with Microsoft’s 94% share. Desktop Linux hasn’t had any appreciable effect on Microsoft’s finances yet, but it could do damage if Linux manages to grab a 10% share of the market, say analysts. IDC estimates that desktop Windows’ share will shrink slightly, to 92% in 2007 as Linux’ share doubles. The first big question though is how all this will have an effect to Apple’s business.
Desktop Linux Share Overtaking Macintosh
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Copy and pasting an image from moz to OOo is easy. In Firefox I just choose copy file location from the right click menu. Then in OOo Writer I choose from the menubar:
insert|graphics|from file then paste into the file selection box – and lo the image is pasted inot your OOo document – Easy!
You call that easy? Perhaps. It’s certainly not intuitive.
On a Mac, it’s easy AND intuitive: drag & drop.
Quit your fighting people. go and play UT2K4. Demo for Windows/MAC/linux.
GO NOW its amazing
Why Linux zealots always spread misconception that Linux is more secure when something like https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2003-417.html this existed in all the Linux Kernels. Now i am worried about my redhat 9.0, ahh this suks!!
Atleast windows never had a bug in the kernel which will cause elevation of privilege like this.
I always wonder how they come up with these numbers. Take me for example. I purchased a new 12″ Powerbook and installed Gentoo Linux on it. Is that a point for Apple or for Linux? Or both?
The greatest service to Open Source since Linux (maybe even better) would be Aqua. God I wish. Linux and Aqua would kill Microsoft so fast. They should just do it for that reason alone…drag down MS with them.
Apple should Open Source Cocoa and XTools. I would love to start using Cocoa again I could build my apps for OSX and Linux. I can only wish.
Okay, what is wrong with http://www.gnustep.org ?
It’s incomplete, it is not theme capable, there is little or no effort of making it Freedesktop compliant. The goal of the project seems to be to be the creation of a OpenStep frontend for a *nix backend, complete with WindowMaker, and all the trimmings. In fact the project, more or less, rejects anything other than the legacy OpenStep look and feel.
Not the optimal choice if you want to create a consistent look and feel.
“My prediction is that, linux is going to lose its momentum, because currently the whole momentum is anti-Microsoft bashing.”
Ah, a great prediction from an informed and respected member of the IT world! Or some random babbling from someone who hasn’t got a clue.
You see, I was under the impression that Linux’s enormous momentum is a result of IBM, Sun, HP, SGI, Red Hat and other large companies putting billions of dollars into the OS, coupled with a very strong server presence and increasing desktop uptake.
But oh no, it’s all just anti-Microsoft bashing! Yeah! IBM must be telling their shareholders: “We’re not adopting Linux because it’s free, powerful and flexible technology. Nor because it helps competition. No, we’re doing it just to say an up-yours to Bill!”.
In closing, this entire thread is a disaster zone. The number of never-worked-in-the-industry armchair pundits waffling on is obscene. Have fun in your own little world.
That was a local vulnerability. There have been quite a few local vulnerabilities for Windows over the years. In any case, there wasn’t any exploits known when the update was available.
Meanwhile, you may have missed these little Windows security gems (look at the top three on the list):
http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Advisories/index.html
First, is your RedHat 9 machine physically accessible to people who may want to hurt it? Because the thing you posted as a *local* root exploit — meaning that the only way to take advantage of it is by actually being at the machine.
Second, Windows had plenty of such exploits. Eg:
http://secunia.com/advisories/8005/
@Sam: Where to start? You are so illogical that its physically painful to me!
My prediction is that, linux is going to lose its momentum, because currently the whole momentum is anti-Microsoft bashing.
———
Right. Multi-billion dollar companies like Dell, HP, IBM, Novell, etc, are all behind Linux because its about Microsoft bashing! ILM uses Linux on all their artist desktops to screw over Microsoft. Munich ended up paying more for Linux, because of the transitionary need for VMWare licenses, just to spite Microsoft! Argh…
All the linux kids posting here post anti-Microsoft stuff, nobody who favors linux favors it for the sake of Linux itself.
———-
Microsoft gets lots of flack because, as a company, they do bad things. But lots of people love Linux just for being Linux. If you actually go to Linux user sites, they don’t sit there and bash Windows, but are genuinely excited by the platform. And who the hell are you calling a kid?
Clearly, this proves that people will lose interest after a while.
———–
Huh? Your statements are neither clear nor do they prove anything! Either you are not a native speaker of English, and you didn’t really mean to use the word “prove,” or you don’t understand the basic principles of logic.
@The guy who’s having problems copying into OpenOffice:
Drag & Drop between Konqueror and OO Writer work just fine here.
Owning a Mercede doesn’t exclude you from driving on some road like owning an Apple will exclude you from using some software. In fact, owning a Mercede might even allow you to go to places that a person owning a cheap ass car can’t go. Owning a Mercede elevate your status and at the same time it doesn’t exclude you from things. Owning a MAC might elevate your status but it also might exclude you from ton of software. I know I will not be able to use quite a few pieces of software if I migrate to a MAC.
If you don’t believe me then write down a list of all the things you can do on a MAC that you can’t on Windows. Now, do the reverse.
I know a Mercede can do all the things that my car can do and it also can do a lot more things than mine can.
Why Linux zealots always spread misconception that Linux is more secure when something like https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2003-417.html this existed in all the Linux Kernels. Now i am worried about my redhat 9.0, ahh this suks!!
Atleast windows never had a bug in the kernel which will cause elevation of privilege like this.
All code has bugs, no program is immune. One of the Mars explorers, Pathfinder (?), crashed because a programmer used imperial measure instead of metric.
The thing that is important is the severity of the bug and how it is dealt with. We are all aware of the remote exploit in Windows XP that Microsoft kept from the public for 6 months. That borders on criminal behavior.
OSX has had its share of bugs as well. I remember discovering a buffer overflow bug that crashed the login screen and dropped the user to a root shell. I notified Apple, it wasn’t well publicized, and it took longer to fix than I would have liked.
Seeing reports of numerous Linux security vulnerabilities does not give you warm fuzzies inside, but it does give you some comfort to know that there is an army of programmers out that are willing to stand up and say “hey, there is a problem and this is how to fix it.”
Apple and Microsoft bundle all these security updates in one package and release them every few months. Some of the fixes they tell you about, some they don’t.
Software companies seem to have this fear that if they admitted all the bugs, users would jump switch.
…and watch its market share soar.
Although you can’t compare computers to cars, I would characterize a Mac more as a Toyota Camery, not a Mercedes. The only common data point between a Mac and a Mercedes is the price. They are both more expensive than the competition.
Perhaps the best comparison that can be made is between an Apple and a SGI workstation. They are both similar. They are more expensive. They both fit a niche market. They both run a flavor of Unix. They both have a marginal installed base, They have both have a high resale value. Both companies have had their share of financial problems.
If you want to look at Apple’s future, look to SGI’s past. SGI was the platform of choice for computer graphics in the early ’90s. By the mid to late ’90s, Macs had replaced a number of those SGI workstations. Now, inexpensive PCs running Linux are replacing the rest of the SGI workstations and an increasing number of Macs.
What is one to think when Steve Jobs’ other company, Pixar, lists Sun Microsystems in the credits and not Apple?
ok, well ive read a few of your comments, and ive got to say dude that you are beyond the pale a zealot of the worse type. Dillo is fine for everyday use? GTK1 and Xaw are acceptable replacements for QT3 and GTK2? dude your head is sooooooo far up your ass it isnt funny.
Is there any reason for Apple not using the Linux *kernel* on their hardware and Aqua on top? Wouldn’t that work out better?
They could then claim that they are part of Linux, thus adding up 1.8%+3.2% = 5%. They then would keep their great GUI proprietary (basically a better DE then KDE or GNOME), stable and custom high performance hardware that is well tested while taking advantage of kernel scalability and optimizations by a large community of developers?
I think this is good for Apple. Linux and Unix and now OS X are all kissing cousins. As Linux takes off, more developers will focus on developing for that platform. Porting to OS X should be fairly easy — shouldn’t it? Presto, more apps for the Mac.
I’m a designer who used Mac for many years primarily in advertising/print. Now I work in web design on both Mac and Win platforms. But at home, I like to play with Linux. Even my kids’ iMac is dual-boot OS 9 and Suse…
I, for one, am just tired of the OS holy wars. Why not use what you like and just get on with doing what you want with your machine? I went kicking and screaming away from a Mac-only world 5 years ago to realize that they all have their pluses and minuses.
The thing that really attracts me to GNU/Linux is the concept of learning something new and sharing that freely in a collaborative environment.
“My prediction is that, linux is going to lose its momentum, because currently the whole momentum is anti-Microsoft bashing.”
LMAO!!! No mention of high performance clustering, no mention of extremely powerful graphics editing, as in the movie Shrek, no mention of embedded devices, no mention of run from CD distros, that can be remastered yourself for any purpose. The only momentum this guys sees is anti-Microsoft bashing? LMAO!
“I don’t see people getting excited about Linux, despite the fact that people try to push it.”
IBM, Novell, HP, Dell and numerous governments around the world will be so pleased to hear your opinion on this! LMAO!
“People usually consider Linux in the context of Microsoft. They don’t consider Linux by itself.”
No really they do, especially in all of those areas where Microsoft does not have a feasible product or implementation.
“Clearly, this proves that people will lose interest after a while.”
BWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
“With Longhorn Microsoft will increase the gap even further.”
Evidence please? LMAO!
Linux on the desktop is a hoppy for people like me,”
Maybe you should try Lindows.
“it will return to its origina again and will be a hoppy again.”
Maybe Lindows has Hooked on Phonics?
“I don’t see Linux becoming a serious desktop player by the help of idiots thinking that email programs are part of the operating system and thus windows is inherently open to viruses.”
LMAO! Linux desktop usage in China, Europe, Asia, South America & Australia don’t count! LMAO!
“That’s never going to happen. The only chance Linux has is on the server market, and that is even under threat.”
Threat from what? An OS that won’t be released until 2008? ROTFLMAO!
From the last Form 10-Q of Apple: +129% Mac hardware sell value; +216% iPod sell value; +69% Mac software sell value; +33% services sell value.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-secToc&TO…
Dear Eugenia,
these are facts, not your words. You are bad informed or you aren’t informed at all. Make us a pleasure: change work! Pumpkins for you, not operating systems!
Is there any reason for Apple not using the Linux *kernel* on their hardware and Aqua on top? Wouldn’t that work out better?
Well…I remember hearing a while back when Linus moved to Cali that Jobs and Tevanian were interested in having him work with them on Mach, as well as his usual fun on the Linux kernel. No go though, as Linus wasn’t interested in Mach, Linux on Mach, or microkernels in general. Apple must have been trying “something”…mkLinux development was more alive back then, so I’m sure they played around with the idea. Anyways, no point though. BSD is just as good.
Apple fans should be happy that Linux is gaining ground. Linux isn’t taking Apple’s market share – they are cutting into Microsoft’s business. Breaking Microsoft’s power is good for Apple, too.
I’ve tried Linux and it doesn’t inspire me to sell my PowerBook and switch from OS X. However, it is heads and shoulders better than Windows.
When it comes to the elusive “market share”, when one group grows market share, the other shrinks. It’s as if everyone on the planet has one computer, and chooses to use 1 os.
Dual booting machines? With the exception of the example given who actually switched from Windows to Linux, how do they measure market share for say, someone who has all 3 machine types running (and on the internet)?
I use XP, Slackware, and OS X, plus I have FreeBSD for testing, and OpenBSD for a server. Granted, that’s quite a few computers, but it should be considered that I don’t do all my work on any one machine over another, though on XP, I mostly do play games.
*shrug* I’ve often wondered why it seems that the 100% market share penetration cannot occur without some other competitor losing.
I like the design of Apple’s notebooks but since their trackpads only have one button, that keeps me from buying them. I know I can use an external mouse but I don’t mind trackpads or trackpoints. The IBM Thinkpad’s is the best, IMO, since its third button can be configured as a smooth scroller or as a middle mouse button. It’s perfect for Unix use.
To the poster who sneered at Darwin (OS X’s open source core)’s scalability, all I can say is:
Virginia Tech. #3 Supercomputer in the World. Runs Darwin (OS X) on G5. ‘Nuff said.
Jared
Hit COMMAND w/ mouse click. There you go . . . your right mouse button. I remember when I switched from linux to OS X, I was dreading the change in the 2nd mouse button. Now, I realize it’s still there.
More to the point, is the 2nd mouse button all that is stopping you from getting a PowerBook over an IBM Thinkpad? There are dozens of reasons why an IBM thinkpad is inferior to a PowerBook. I’ve used dell’s, thinkpads, vaios. My 17 in. PowerBook will keep my pocketbook for a long time to come. I’ve searched far and wide for a laptop to suit all my needs and mostly my heart’s desire for a beautiful machine, both software and hardware. Apple’s OS X PowerBook inspires. When the G5 comes out on the laptop, it’s all over! When IBM’s ramp up of processor for Apple becomes more efficient, the PowerBook lines will hopefully see better processors more quickly (barring the dreaded heat and power issues). Boo on those issues.
They need to license Mac technology to other OEMs.
I haven’t seen so much zealots in a while.
I hate to see what would happen to Apple when Adobe and other Multimedia software vendors port all their apps to Linux. Hey, these guys watch market share figures like they watch porn.
Anyway, I’d give Linux another 7-10 years before it is as completely polished as other major desktop OSes in the market and a step ahead. I think in that time range, the Linux desktop will be completely free, interoperable with all desktops (proprietary and otherwise), have a wealth of applications on par with commercial offerings and more polished than any other desktop offering.
Right now, I think the Linux desktop needs more knowledge users, not home users. It is certainly impressive that Linux’ desktop has overtaken Macs and will continue to do so in the feature. This is a compliment to OSS developers and proponents around the world.
> It’s incomplete,
What in GNUstep is so incomplete?
> it is not theme capable.
What’s wrong with theme bundle?
http://www.roard.com/camaelon/
> there is little or no effort of making it Freedesktop compliant.
GNUstep is just a tool kit. Not a desktop environment. There’s another
to build the desktop environment called Backbone, which aimed
to work well with other application from different desktop environment.
> The goal of the project seems to be to be the creation of a OpenStep
> frontend for a *nix backend, complete with WindowMaker, and all the > trimmings.
Window Maker is not even official window manager for GNUstep.
If you want to talk policy. There are significant effort on porting
GNUstep to Windows (Without X11) and that’s progressing quite
well.
> In fact the project, more or less, rejects anything other than the legacy > OpenStep look and feel.
Well.. Incorrect.
> Not the optimal choice if you want to create a consistent look and feel.
What’s wrong with theme bundle?
@The guy who’s having problems copying into OpenOffice:
Drag & Drop between Konqueror and OO Writer work just fine here.
Wow! I did not know that. Since when does this work?
My iBook runs Yellow Dog Linux. So who gets to count my market share? Linux? Apple?
as does my five apple boxen
@Jared: The VA Tech cluster nodes are dual-processor systems. That’s not really “scalable” in anybody’s book. When people say that Solaris or Linux is “scalable,” they mean it allows programs to take advantage of large single-system-image machines with dozens or hundreds of CPUs.
@A nun, he moos: I don’t know how long it has worked — I don’t use OO Writer on a regular basis. I’m using KDE 3.2 RC1 and OpenOffice.org 1.1 on Debian, and I know it works on that.
I have run Linux, Windows, Mac.
I now use Windows, Mac.
I dropped Linux because it took me hours to get the thing to find my hardware, all I wished to do was get on the internet with my adsl modem, but it could not find it, I then had to hack the thing to make it work right everytime I wished to connect, I find Linux intriguing but not ready for mainstream use on the desktop, I only use Windows server or Linux server, I would never use Linux for desktop use, for desktop use Linux is very bad. Linux is good for server and that is all…
But I find Mac X Server better, hmm?…
The problem with the Apple server line is that they have used up most of their credability on the server side in their previous attempts on the server market. There was A/UX that they run for a few years with extremly bad support. Even Apple sales people recommended against it. Then they switched platform to powerPC and shipped AIX, with no reasonable upgrade path what so ever. Then they discontinued that too after only two years or perhaps three years to go back to MacOS based servers, again no reasonable upgrade path.
I would like to see Apple having consistent server strategy for at least 10 years before I buy a server from Apple even though their current server line looks excellent from a techichal perspective. But on the other hand all other server attempts from apple did look excellent at their time like all other apple products for that matter.
“Then there’s Computer Arts, Computer Music, Digit and the rest of the design-tech press which covers the Mac PLUS the professional design press (Grafik, Creative Review, Blueprint etc) which cover major Mac related issues.”
Also Sound On Sound, a fat music industry magazine, covers the Mac. (And Linux now).
The photos of recording studios seem to all show a Mac in use.
“Yeah right. Mac OS X and Windows wins hands down from Linux in the desktop arena.
Forget about copying and pasting any rich media on Linux. If you want to copy an image from mozilla to openoffice on X11, you can forget about it. Heck, even styled text is too much to handle for the X11 clipboard, and you better keep the origin-app open till you are absolutely sure you don’t want to paste anymore.”
What are you talking about! I just copied a the google logo and some styled text from Mozilla into OpenOffice it works just fine.
“And you can forget about using only applications that use 1 framework, because there are so few quality applications on Linux, let alone quality applications in all the different frameworks. Ported commercial applications will probably use yet another framework, and only run on 1 or 2 distributions.”
Modern commercial apps usually use Gnome/gtk or KDE/qt and if they are programmed correctly according to specifications in each toolkit they work just fine together. Including cut& paste and drag&drop. The problem is older apps developed before specifications like XDND was finished, but they get fewer and fever these days.
The apps may be tested in 1 or 2 distributions, but they will run on most distros. The difference between various distributions are actually very little provided they are of same age (i.e. using the same Linux kernel and glibc version)
“Dependency hell is still there, only fixed by ugly hacks like apt-get or emerge. The developer can never rely on the fact that “on a linux desktop machine, these frameworks will be there”. So the only way to make it easy to install, is package it for debian and try to get it in their repository, then package it for gentoo, and try to get it in their repository, then slackware, fedora, mandrake, suse,..
”
I have no idea how Apple solves their dependency hell, but the versioning system for libs are very similar, so I guess Apple solves it by always shipping everything that is needed for an application in their installation packages. There is nothing that prevents you from doing this in Linux as well.
“And I would seriously call XFree86 allot slower than Quartz and Aqua. Even on the fastest machine, you can easily see the redraws. Click a menu, see the grey square, then see the text. Instead of just square + text immediatly, at once.”
And the beauty of it is that it X11 network transparant, and excellent for thin client solutions. It also makes it possible to separate presentation hardware from calculation hardware.
“The only good thing about the Linux Desktop, is that it is cheap. It’s not actually good, it’s not modern, and has barely a few quality applications (which offcourse don’t integrate with eachother). The quality is pretty much on the same level as Windows 3.11. But hey, it’s cheap, so it’s ideal for cheapskates who value their time at 0 dollars.”
Well, one of the main advantages is that it is much more configurable than both MacOS X and windows. This makes it much more simple to make customized GUIs that fit your business processes.
You have to realize that many Linux users change their browser signature to tell the server that they are MS IE as many sites just allow the most common browsers and operating systems. Many Linux based browsers also makes it very easy to set whatever browser signature you want So you should expect the google figure to be lower than the actual number of Linux users.
Forget about copying and pasting any rich media on Linux.
———
What qualifies are “rich media?” No, you cannot copy & paste videos into word prcessor documents. But images and text? Sure!
If you want to copy an image from mozilla to openoffice on X11, you can forget about it.
———-
Well, it certanly works between Konqueror and KWord! If it doesn’t work between Mozilla and OpenOffice.org, its a bug, not a limitation of the framework.
and you better keep the origin-app open till you are absolutely sure you don’t want to paste anymore.
————
Not in KDE you don’t. Klipper even keeps a little history of what you’ve copied and pasted
And you can forget about using only applications that use 1 framework, because there are so few quality applications on Linux, let alone quality applications in all the different frameworks.
—————
I’m a KDE user, and I run a single GTK+ app — gtkpod. And I’m curious — on which platform do you get to use only one framework? Windows certainly has several — OWL, MFC, common controls, .NET toolkit, Microsoft Office’s toolkit, etc. Are you telling me that you don’t use MS Office? And OS X users still have to deal with Cocoa/Carbon/Classic.
Ported commercial applications will probably use yet another framework, and only run on 1 or 2 distributions.
————–
Clue: The types of apps that get ported to Linux don’t use a native toolkit in Windows either!
Dependency hell is still there, only fixed by ugly hacks like apt-get or emerge.
————–
Argh! apt-get isn’t a hack. Its a piece of software that frees us Linux users from having to actually deal with installation like you Windows users. Installing software takes me just seconds of my time. MSI takes that long just to load!
And I would seriously call XFree86 allot slower than Quartz and Aqua.
———
And you’d be wrong. I use an 800 MHz iMac with 10.2.8 on a reguler basis. Its glacially slow compared to my laptop. On batteries, my laptop speed-steps down to 1.2 GHz, and because of the P4’s lowered IPC, that’s pretty comparable to the 800MHz G4 in the iMac. KDE is still much faster than Aqua. Aqua has less flicker and less visible redraw, but its much slower.
Even on the fastest machine, you can easily see the redraws. Click a menu, see the grey square, then see the text. Instead of just square + text immediatly, at once.
———–
My laptop regulerly runs at 2GHz. Its by no means one of “the fastest machine[s].” Still, I cannot see anything resembling what you are talking about.
Well, the 2.4 kernel series and the kernels before that was no more secure than windows NT or MacOS-X. However the new 2.6 kernel have included the SELinux extensions once developed by NSA the makes it possible to use mandatory access control. That way you can remove the concept of a root user that have total control of your computer. This means that a security problem in one application is less likely to spread in the system.
“You have to realize that many Linux users change their browser signature to tell the server that they are MS IE as many sites just allow the most common browsers and operating systems. Many Linux based browsers also makes it very easy to set whatever browser signature you want So you should expect the google figure to be lower than the actual number of Linux users.”
You know, I’ve seen this argument a lot but I don’t think it washes. My quad-boot AMD box does not set the browser strings in any environment. I have no difficulty accessing any of the sites that I frequent from Linux or OS X. Now BeOS with the default browser on the other hand, it does have trouble with some sites since it is exremely outdated.
Where the heck are you guys going that rejects you for not being in IE running on some version of Windows?
“for desktop use Linux is very bad. Linux is good for server and that is all…”
Maybe in your opinion but try convincing me or anyone else using a Linux desktop. We use it because it is much better than the alternatives. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, and not a very good one, or a very informed one either.
I guess this could be true because of developing nations using linux. In reality since I’ve switched to OSX I’ve sold my first mac to a switcher two are waiting for their dells to die out and get a PowerBook and one is seriously contemplating selling his IBM for a used PowerBook. Most of us have serious computer knowledge but linux just doesn’t cut it on the desktop for most of our needs. All of us are in the medical field and linux simply does not have the programs we need and most likely never will, not to mention the reason I switched to the Mac is that the presentation software looks very profesional making windows and linux versions simply done by amatuers. We do not have the time to waste on hoping for linux to catch up to OSX, which simply put is the best desktop out there, rember the best idea doesn’t always win most of the time its the best marketed.
The problem with Linux getting more market share than OS X would be if it ment that developers stoped writing for OS X.
However Linux software an be easily ported to run on OS X. Both GTK and QT have been ported. You can even replace Aqua with Gnome or KDE if you where so inclined. So developers migrating away from OS X will not be a problem as if they do the software they write will still run with minimal difficulty.
It must be said apple is a HARDWARE company, and their hardware can run Linux software, the larger the combined market share is the more software will be written for it and so the better for Apple as there will be more apps to run on their hardware.
By moving to a UNIX based OS they have cleverly found a way of mitigating for the declining market share that everyone here always complains about. Instead of creating a cut down low cost x86 version of their OS to run on cheap clone box’s they let someone else do that for them (Linux). They get the extra market that developers might be looking for, whilst maintaining their high quality brand. There is one thing that OS X has that Linux doesn’t that will guarantee that software gets ported, a userbase that is happy to actually PAY for software.
Rayiner has one vision, he only sees Linux with no problems. Never till date he has been honest to actually talk bad things that exist in Linux and frankly its LAME. Rayiner please give us explanation of the points i raise below:
Linux in desktop is always behind Microsoft. No matter what open source zealots are doing, with a big task force and combined focus of Microsoft, its very hard for Linux to beat Microsoft in desktop market.
Server market, yes Linux does stand a chance but Microsoft is investing lots and lots in it too. Did you hear about Small Business Server? Integration is what matters in the coming days, integrated applications for ease of use and linux is mostly missing that, except in few cases.
Till now linux is only surviving because it is free, i can bet try selling linux at the same price as Microsoft does and you will know where in terms of quality and preference of use, linux vs windows stand.
Think about it guys, Microsoft is able to compete even when the competition is against something which is free, that clearly shows windows has got something good, you can’t just sell anything unless people want it.
Finally my prediction is..Linux may take more share in software developer market segment but i don’t see any significant share in user market for atleast next 10 years or so and on the other hand i see windows penetrating more in server market along with Linux thus killing Unix completely.
[Anonymous] – Even on the fastest machine, you can easily see the redraws. Click a menu, see the grey square, then see the text. Instead of just square + text immediatly, at once.
———–
[Rayiner] – My laptop regulerly runs at 2GHz. Its by no means one of “the fastest machine[s].” Still, I cannot see anything resembling what you are talking about.
———–
[Troll] – Rayiner, what do you mean you have never seen this? May be you have a faster machine than him. It doesn’t mean that he is lieing. What do you try to say that if you haven’t seen a problem in Linux, it doesn’t exist? Let atleast people express their opinion instead of trying to outrightly make them look like they are just anti linux or MS fan. Thanks!
“Where the heck are you guys going that rejects you for not being in IE running on some version of Windows? ”
To my internet bank for one thing.
The significance of the Linux overtaking Macs on desktop is that LINUX IS NOW THE DE-FACTO ALTERNATIVE TO MICROSOFT ON THE DESKTOP – NOT APPLE!
That fact alone is giving Steve Jobs (not just Bill Gates) the shivers – its a crises for Apple folks. the installed hardware base for the PC can transition to Linux almost seamlessly – a transitin to Apple means a complete change out of billinos of dollars of hardware – is was’nt ever going to happen so that provided Microsoft insurance when Apple was ‘THE’ alternative. Its a different ballgame with Linux. The unintended consequence is that Apple is no longer seen as alternative so their platform simply will lose the little interest thay have been able to attract so far on the corporate desktop. MS loses eventually (at least partially) but Apple loses its chance period!.
I only use Windows server or Linux server, I would never use Linux for desktop use, for desktop use Linux is very bad.
I think perhaps it’s been a while since you’ve tried Linux. I suggest trying it again to see the improvements.
Didn’t you just post the exact same message yesterday?
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=6013&offset=90&rows=105#2…
That’s pretty lame, posting exactly the same FUD twice. It shows you don’t have any real arguments beyond typical marketing BS and false logic.
Think about it guys, Microsoft is able to compete even when the competition is against something which is free, that clearly shows windows has got something good, you can’t just sell anything unless people want it.
There are several things wrong with this argument. First: for most people Windows is free anyway, because it comes with any computer they buy (the cost being hidden from them).
Second, the fact that Microsoft is competing doesn’t mean anything. Let’s look at it logically. First, we can safely say that not all technologies and/or products are equal. Some are better, some are worse. Yet they still compete against one another, so competing in itself is not a proof of superiority. There are real world examples of a superior technology being beaten by an inferior one, the better known being Beta vs. VHS. So in fact there are a lot of other forces at play behind market share than just quality.
Also, consider that a lot of people still don’t know Linux, or don’t know much about it. They also must decide to try something else, which a lot of people will be reluctant to do by force of habit. Consumer awareness and inertia are two powerful areas where Windows holds a definite advantage over Linux.
Finally, you ignore an important fact in your argument, that of Microsoft using its monopoly power to further its market dominance. Specifically, the monopoly in question here is that of closed file formats: .doc, .xls, .ppt, etc. By keeping these file formats closed, MS can gives an unfair advantage to its own Office suite, and therefore to its OS. It also gives it a weapon to keep Apple in check: who would buy Macs if MS Office was no longer available for it?
Open the MS Office file formats (or successfully reverse-engineer them at 100%) and you’ll break MS’s monopoly. That’s what the antitrust ruling should have achieved.
Never till date he has been honest to actually talk bad things that exist in Linux and frankly its LAME.
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Hell no! There are lots of problems with Linux, and I’ve said as much many times. Its just that the problems certain people keep bringing up (its slow, installation is hard, blah blah blah) aren’t those problems.
Linux in desktop is always behind Microsoft.
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That’s a bullshit comment. According to who? Linux is a hell of a better desktop than any version of Windows I’ve ever used.
No matter what open source zealots are doing, with a big task force and combined focus of Microsoft, its very hard for Linux to beat Microsoft in desktop market.
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Can you back that statement up with fact? In a very short amount of time, the OSS desktop people have come up with something competitive with Windows XP for certain markets. There are a lot of indications that Linux will have the cool Longhorn technologies *before* Longhorn comes out. I really wouldn’t be so sure that the OSS “zealots” will always be behind MS.
Till now linux is only surviving because it is free, i can bet try selling linux at the same price as Microsoft does and you will know where in terms of quality and preference of use, linux vs windows stand.
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Have you *seen* what RedHat charges for RHEL? Or SuSE for SLES? The fact that these two companies are doing good business pretty much invalidates your claim!
[Troll] – Rayiner, what do you mean you have never seen this? May be you have a faster machine than him. It doesn’t mean that he is lieing.
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Try reading the fricking comment — its all there in the stuff you quoted. He said “even on the fastest machine…”
I know that my 2GHz P4 is not one of the fastest machines. Since I do not see the problem on my 2GHz P4, I rightfully conclude that I would not see it on a faster machine, and thus would not see it on the fastest machine. Further, since the original poster claimed to see the problem “even on the fastest machine,” one can assume that he has this knowledge because he has used Linux on “the fastest machine.” Since we have concluded that he would not see the problem on “the fastest machine,” we can safely assume that the original poster has not use “the fastest machine” like he implied, and thus if he is not outright lying, he is at least attempting to pass off mere conjecture as fundemental truth.
“The significance of the Linux overtaking Macs on desktop is that LINUX IS NOW THE DE-FACTO ALTERNATIVE TO MICROSOFT ON THE DESKTOP – NOT APPLE!”
Oh is it now? Ok so I can go to Best Buy and pick up my Linux computer and sfotware? Can I go to the Linux Store and actually get expert advice on video and DVD authoring? Where are the Linux desktop commercials? Did Adobe stop making software for Apple? I didn’t think so.
“That fact alone is giving Steve Jobs (not just Bill Gates) the shivers – its a crises for Apple folks.”
Taken seriously yes, shivers? I doubt it. Your talking about an OS that most people use WITH Windows or in a dual boot setup.
“the installed hardware base for the PC can transition to Linux almost seamlessly”
I don’t see it happening over night and seamlessly is not the word I would use.
“- a transitin to Apple means a complete change out of billinos of dollars of hardware – is was’nt ever going to happen so that provided Microsoft insurance when Apple was ‘THE’ alternative. Its a different ballgame with Linux. The unintended consequence is that Apple is no longer seen as alternative so their platform simply will lose the little interest thay have been able to attract so far on the corporate desktop. MS loses eventually (at least partially) but Apple loses its chance period!.”
Considering that someone is already heavily invested in PC hardware then most will continue to use Windows DESPITE its flaws. Believe it or not their are also people in the world that are sick of Windows AND Linux. They may consider MacOSX.These users for the most part are not your newbie users and I have seen these types of people switch to MacOSX.
As long as MacOSX continues to be a great product and as long as Windows and Linux are NOT perfect then Apple will always have a market.
If consumers also get the idea that Linux is about “free” software which would not be too far fetched given the number of people running 95 and 98 then why would a company like Adobe make software for a demographic that feels that they should not have to pay for software given the idea that their operating system is free?
Linux users think Linux is the only open source operating system. Apple based Mac OS X on BSD, another completely free and widely distributed open source operating system. That’s why the Mac can run all Unix programs and utitlies. It already is a kind of Unix very similar to Linux. For example, I downloaded the source code for the public domain version of the Korn shell, compiled it with ./configue, make and make install in the Mac’s terminal window, which install the korn shell in /usr/local/bin/ksh, I added that to the .bash_profile path variable, and am now able to write Korn shell scripts. As you Linux users may notice, the bash shell is the default shell on Mac OS X, just as it is on Linux. I do most of my programming in VI. I never use Vim, though we have that too. Apache is the default web server, MySQL works fine, etc. And Apple as made the Mac OS X available to everyone on both PowerPC and ’86 platform with the BSD public license. So it’s pointless to start all over and switch to another similar open source Unix-like kernel.
Other than the annual Apple tax, I agree with you, Darwin is a capable OS. The MacOS front-end is not open enough for my tastes though.
I think Apple will be fine. I’m sure the switchers are just Windows users looking for an alternative. Linux is not a threat to OSX.
Think Different.
“This is a compliment to OSS developers and proponents around the world.”
It’s more a compliment to what people will do to cut costs, especially during hard times.
I havent read beyond post no. 15, so if my point has already been raised, accept my apology for the redundancy.
I think this is even a good news for apple, now that linux is slowly gaining market share. why? applications: when linux share (installed) reaches the critical mass needed for the developers to take notice of the platform as a marketable choice, then applications will pour on the linux platform. And how easier is it to port apps from linux to os x than from windows to os x? a lot, i would say. Even as early as now we can see a lot of linux applications showing its presence on OS X. (Safari and Konqueror sharing the same engine, KDE and Koffice and a lot more…) so is steve jobs worried? Nah, i don’t think so. I think it more like a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.