Today we host a long and interesting interview with President & COO of Lindows.com, Kevin Carmony. We discuss about the desktop, the OSS community, Microsoft, LindowsOS 5 and much more. More over, just for the next couple of days, Lindows.com offers the LindowsOS Developer Edition 4.5 for free to the OSNews readers! Read more for details on how to use the OSNews text coupon and download this digital version of LindowsOS free of charge.
1. Some people believe that Lindows.com promised Microsoft Windows application compatibility two years ago and that later you opted-out from this promise. What is the whole story and truth about this?
Kevin Carmony: When we started Lindows.com, we thought it might help people who were migrating to desktop Linux if they could still run their legacy Microsoft Windows software. So, we invested over a half million dollars into WINE, a technology used to run Microsoft Windows software under Linux. Most of that investment went to to pay Codeweavers to get Microsoft Office 2000 to run under Linux. After a few months of working on this project, Codeweavers did get Microsoft Office to run, but two other interesting things happened simultaneously as well. The first was that we decided it made more sense to put development into helping create better native Linux applications, and second, Codeweavers became re-energized and excited about WINE. Because all of our WINE code was open sourced, we wished Jeremy and company good luck, walked away from our investment, and discontinued any further work with WINE. Codeweavers then continued on with this code as the starting place for what later became Crossover Office.
The bottom line, is we simply decided that it made more sense for us to invest in encouraging software development for Linux applications. We realized that it didn’t make much sense that someone would choose Linux for its openness and affordability, only to then run proprietary and expensive MS Windows software, such as Microsoft’s $500 office suite. We realized that Microsoft Windows compatibility was facilitating movement in a direction contrary to the real strengths of Linux…open, affordable, secure, and stable, so we moved 100% of our energy into helping bring more and better Linux applications to the market. (I talk about this more in your later questions.)
Interestingly, however, was that because we attracted a fair amount of attention in those early days with WINE, it got companies like Codeweavers, SuSE and Xandros excited about Microsoft Windows compatibility. The irony is that while these companies were getting excited and jumping into this, we were changing our direction and moving completely away from Microsoft Windows compatibility. We’ve never regretted our decision to use and support native Linux software. We would rather help support the development of good substitutes for Microsoft Windows software. For example, we think Mozilla is a much superior product to IE. We’d rather invest in making Mozilla better than getting IE to run on Linux. We wish those who continue on with WINE the best of luck, it really is an amazing project, but it’s just not the direction that fits our vision of Linux’s future.
So, yes, we did change our direction, but that’s what good companies do. It’s rare that a company doesn’t need to adjust to things as they move down the road with their business plan. When we made this change, we came out to our users candidly about our decision, and extended the time frame of our normal money-back guarantee to anyone who didn’t want to continue on with LindowsOS, regardless of how long ago they had purchased LindowsOS. Fortunately, very few took us up on that offer, but rather joined us in our effort to support native Linux software.
We made this shift almost two years ago, but it’s funny how long it takes to get past the first thing someone hears about you. I guess it’s true what they say about first impressions, they’re very hard to shake.
2. What are the contributions to open source Lindows.com has done so far? Is it mostly code, money or other types of support you offer, and how?
Kevin Carmony: We do all of those. For example, we contribute back all of our code for any open source projects we work on or pay to have worked on. Our code doesn’t always get used, but we always submit it back. For instance, we worked with the GAIM developers as we made several changes to their Instant Messenger. We paid them to make some changes and our engineers made others. As we always do, we offered all of this work back to GAIM. So far they have only used about half of the changes, and we’re fine with that, that’s their decision. We submit everything back and let the maintainers decide what gets used or not.
We have also spent a lot of direct cash on open source projects as well. I already mentioned the nearly $500,000 we paid to improve WINE. We have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on other projects as well. For example, we have an on-going relationship with MozDev.org where we pay them to make dozens of changes that we think make Mozilla more powerful and easier to use, and all those changes are given back and many appear in the main tree for Mozilla. We’re paying for the work on many exciting new features for Mozilla that everyone will ultimately enjoy, not just LindowsOS users.
We sponsor several Linux and open source web sites. For example, KDE-look.org had to shut down until we stepped up to sponsor them. We now also sponsor their sister site, KDE-apps.org. We also just arranged to bring apps.kde.com back to life, which was forced to shut down for lack of funding. We’re always on the look out for sites to sponsor. If a site promotes Linux in a meaningful way, and can have a real impact on things, we’re interested.
We have contributed tens of thousands of dollars to Reiser4, the amazing, “unbreakable” new version of the open source ReiserFS file system which will be included in our next release of LindowsOS. Our CEO, Michael Robertson, was also a big financial supporter of ReiserFS when he was CEO of MP3.com. We have also spent tens of thousands of dollars as the sole sponsor and financier for Nvu, an ftp-integrated, ultra easy-to-use web authoring system, ala Dreamweaver and Frontpage. I’ve been running an alpha copy of Nvu on my computer and and it’s an awesome program! Nvu will be offering downloads of the first beta release within the next few weeks. We’re very proud and excited to see this project coming to life.
We support open source in many ways that go unnoticed, simply because we don’t broadcast everything we help with. We want to help to see these projects succeed, not to give ourselves a pat on the back. We finally did, however, put up a web page that lists our contributions, because some people were assuming we didn’t do much in this area. You can find that page at http://lindows.com/opensource. Considering we’re not profitable and lose money each month, I’m very happy with the amount of support we give to open source projects.
Finally, but perhaps most important, I’ll add that Linux needs more than just more lines of code. The more people who start using Linux, the more developers it will attract to it. (Ask any Palm OS developer about this dynamic.) So, Linux also needs marketing, distribution, education, leadership, vision, and so on. I’d like to think Lindows.com is doing a great deal in this area. Every day hundreds of new people are seeing Linux pop up on their new computer. We think that’s a very good thing for Linux.
3. Some people have said that Lindows.com tries to take the credit for open source projects by changing the names of some programs in your OS and the CNR Warehouse. How do you respond to that?
Kevin Carmony: Because we’re trying to get the average computer user to try Linux, we think it’s best to not scare them with a flood of new words. Picture dropping someone who speaks English into a foreign land where they only speak a different language. How comfortable do you think she’d feel? How long do you think she’d want to stick around if they never spoke her language and she couldn’t understand anything? That’s how most computer users would feel when they see Linux for the first time. They get bombarded with so many new terms, like Kernel, Root, Mozilla, Kate, KDE, X, GNOME, GAIM, GIMP, Debian, MPlayer, XMMS, K-this, G-that, and on and on. 95% of the world doesn’t understand these terms, and when they see them they just get confused and run back to their comfort zone of Microsoft Windows. People shouldn’t have to learn a new language to use Linux.
So, yes, we rename things like GAIM to “Instant Messenger,” Kate to “Text Editor,” and XMMS to “MP3 Player.” We don’t do this to take credit, but to make it easy on the user. For example, when you start the “Instant Messenger” in LindowsOS, it says “Instant Messenger” but very clearly, right underneath it also says, “Powered by GAIM.” When you choose “MP3 Player” from the Launch Menu, it brings up a program called “MP3 Player,” but if you go to the menus or the about box, it says “About XMMS.”
We give credit where credit is due, and users can easily see the name of the underlying technology. We just put a friendlier name in the menus and title bar to make things easier to use for those new to Linux. I’ve noticed many of the other distributions have followed our lead on this.
4. A lot of Linux users think that Lindows.com doesn’t do enough to push its users to create user accounts and hence most LindowsOS users run as root. What is your opinion on the issue?
Kevin Carmony: Let me just say that LindowsOS is extremely secure, in some ways, more than most Linux distributions, and certainly more than MS Windows.
I think this stems mostly from the very first “Sneak Preview” of LindowsOS that came out two years ago. In that version, we didn’t yet have the system in place to set up users, even though it was always planned. As we have seen with the whole issue of people thinking we run MS Windows software, it’s hard to shake a first impression. If the way we do it today would have been what was in our very first Sneak Preview release, this would have never been an issue.
It’s true we don’t force users to run as user, but we certainly do everything short of that. We have the user set up an Admin password during install, and then present them with an easy-to-use screen to set up Users. We even have a page, right during install, that discusses security with the user, and explains how to use passwords, set up users, understand the LindowsOS firewall, etc. to increase the security of their computer.
By default, LindowsOS ships with a very strict firewall in place and no open network services. For this reason, remote hacks to the average user are extremely unlikely. The average user will not open ports to their computer and therefore the default settings of LindowsOS are very secure for these users. Fortunately, most advanced users who are knowledgeable enough to open a port, are also knowledgeable enough to use the firewall properly to avoid introducing any security vulnerabilities as well as know enough to click the “Add User” button.
As a Linux user, I think Linux should try to become as secure as possible while keeping the number of hoops the user must jump through to a minimum. I’d like to see Linux get smarter, not require training the user. The maintainers of the Kernel are working on making Linux just as secure when running as root as when running as a user. Now THAT’S what I’m talking about! Smarter technology so users can USE their computer, not be used by it.
Someone once told me that Lindows.com should in fact force users to run as user, and not even allow them to run as root. He used the example of how we have laws that force users to stop at red lights. I’d suggest the best thing to do is to build an overpass so that no one has to stop at red lights AND are even safer than using traffic lights at intersections. Smarter technology, not more training for users.
One great example of “smarter technology” is capabilities-based security, which provides a finer granularity of security. The best current practical implementation of this is “security enhanced” or SE Linux. Capabilities-based security shifts focus from what users can do to what each OS component can do. In the world of computing, we think it makes more sense to track computational objects, not humans. This is another open source technology we are proud to be supporting.
BUT…until Linux is smarter, we do all we can to educate users about using User accounts and make it very easy for them to do just that.
Finally, I’d offer there is actually one way in which LindowsOS is more secure than most other desktop Linux products, and that’s with the deployment of security patches. Because of our built-in CNR Technology which allows users to easily install any security patches as soon as they become available. We provide this in a way that even the most novice Linux user will get these patches, and they do not need to be a member of CNR to get these.
5. Because of your focus on ease-of-use, would you consider LindowsOS too simplified for more technical Linux users?
Kevin Carmony: Not at all. I think everyone appreciates a bit of polish and attention to details. LindowsOS might be pretty on the outside, but under the hood it’s pure, hard-core Debian Linux. For example, if someone is more technical and wants to forgo using CNR, they can still simply go to the command line and use apt. (There’s another one of those new terms 😉 Also, developers can use the LindowsOS Developer’s Edition if they want all the more technical goodies pre-installed. We don’t take any of the power away from Linux, we just put an easy-to-use coat of paint on top of it. Everyone at Lindows.com runs LindowsOS full time, both here at our offices as well as in their homes, so it needs to work for everyone, from the non-technical bookkeeper to our super-geek engineers. I’m glad we have a reputation for being easy to use, but I think even the die-hard Linux “geek” might be surprised at just how much power is under the hood of LindowsOS. (See question #6 if you’d like to see for yourself for free.)
6. What are the main differences of your product when compared to the ones of your two main competitors, Lycoris and Xandros?
Kevin Carmony: We only have one competitor that we care about, and that’s Microsoft. No one else has enough market share to bother with. You could take all the Linux desktop users from Red Hat, SuSE, Xandros, Lycoris, Mandrake, etc., and it wouldn’t be enough to keep any of us in business for long. The only thing I’d say about LindowsOS, as it compares to other Linux distributions, is that we focus exclusively on the desktop/laptop and go the extra mile to make Linux ultra easy to use. Some Linux users scoff when they see things in LindowsOS like our Audio Tutorials which tell a user how to Launch a program, but 95% of the world needs that sort of ease of use. We have 65 full-time employees (the vast majority of those being engineers) who do nothing but eat, sleep, and drink desktop/laptop Linux. I hope it shows. I’m confident it does.
I’d suggest the best way to know how we are different is to give LindowsOS a try, and since OSNews was kind enough to ask me these questions and post my answers, we’d like to give everyone reading this a free digital copy of LindowsOS. Simply go to http://lindows.com/buyit and select the digital copy of the LindowsOS Developer’s Edition. When you check out, use the coupon code “IReadOSNews” and you’ll get this $59.95 program for free. The coupon code will only be good for a day or two, so that we don’t go completely broke as this coupon code gets passed around. I apologize in advance if by the time you read this, you missed out on this offer. =) (You’re also welcome to choose the packaged version, but you’ll have to pay the extra $10 for the packaging as well as shipping and handling. Just use the same coupon code and it will deducted $59.95 from the $69.95 cost. If you get the free digital version, you download an .iso and burn your own CD.)
7. Lindows.com already includes its OS on many OEM PCs and laptops today. How easy (or difficult) was it to make such deals with retailers in this Microsoft world we live in?
Kevin Carmony: It’s extremely difficult, but we are fortunate to have not only a great engineering team, but also a wonderful sales force that has done an excellent job of cracking this open. Just this week we’re announcing the addition of Lee Little to our sales team. Lee is well known and respected in the OEM channel and was the previous Director of Sales from AMD who was instrumental in helping AMD compete so effectively against Intel. It takes a lot of resources, such as a big QA lab to certify all this hardware. We’ve had dozens of people working on this for two years, so no, it’s not easy. However, this is one of those areas where we’d like to think we’re helping to bring hundreds of new people to Linux every day. You have to remember that 95% of computer users have never installed an OS in their life. Most users just use the OS that comes pre-installed on their computer when they buy it, usually MS Windows. So, unless you can get Linux pre-installed on computers, you’ll never get to the masses. I’m sure this is a key reason that Microsoft dislikes us a great deal. We’ve cost them tens of millions of dollars in computers that have been shipped without MS Windows. We’re very proud of that accomplishment. =)
I’ve often said that the way Linux succeeds on the desktop is not by Lindows.com beating Microsoft, but by smaller hardware companies beating Dell, by leveraging the huge cost advantages of Linux. As long as Dell only offers MS Windows on their desktop computers, even the smallest system builder can now beat Dell pricing, simply by getting rid of the expensive “Microsoft Tax.” There are lots of companies now doing this. The KooBox is a good example of this. This is full computer with a flat-pannel LCD monitor for only $449. Dell can’t get to those prices, because they have to pay Microsoft and The KooBox doesn’t.
8. What happened with your plans for a TabletPC? Last year we heard about the DocuNote and Lindows, but later DocuNote shipped with Windows.
Kevin Carmony: We are still working on this. The Linux drivers for using a stylus on these devices was all but non existent, so it has taken a long time to make progress here. We decided that until our tablet support could do everything MS Windows offered, we didn’t want to release LindowsOS for these devices yet. Running LindowsOS on these machines isn’t hard, but having it take advantage of all the pen features is a very big challenge. Our CTO uses a pen computer running LindowsOS, so I know we’re getting close.
9. Lindows.com takes a more active participation to the KDE project lately. In what way would you like to get involved with the project?
Kevin Carmony: We have always used and supported KDE. We were one of the first sponsors of KDE League, at the highest level offered, back when it was formed. Some open source projects are easy to support financially, others are more difficult. KDE is a good example of one that because it’s so dispersed, it’s not like you can just write a check, sit back, and wait for it to get better. So yes, we’ve gotten a lot more involved in other ways lately. We think the biggest thing KDE needs is not necessarily in relationship to the desktop features, but more about KDE applications. This is why we wanted to sponsor KDE-apps.org and apps.kde.com. Look for a brand new KDE.com site to launch soon which we are backing, all with the hope of attracting more support to KDE application development. We are also working on a sizable bounty program to pay developers who work on certain KDE applications.
We are also working on some great KDE applications in house, which are open sourced and that we’ll be sharing with the world when LindowsOS 5.0 comes out. Linux needs more and better applications to succeed. That is the area we are spending most of our time, energy and dollars right now.
10. What is your opinion on Gnome, the main adversary of KDE? Which were the reasons that Lindows.com chose KDE over Gnome?
Kevin Carmony: Given our target market, the average computer user, we knew it wouldn’t be wise to present them with several choices for a desktop environment. We wanted to offer one desktop environment. We think there are a lot of great things about both KDE and GNOME. KDE was a little more comfortable in how it operated for our target audience, so we made that our default desktop. However, LindowsOS supports non-KDE apps in our OS, such as OpenOffice, Mozilla, GAIM, etc. This is another area we’re trying to spend some time and energy, with the integration between all these different type of environments. Our target market will be confused by different print dialog boxes, for example. We’re working to bring all these together, regardless if it’s KDE, GNOME or anything else, but yes, our main thrust is with KDE.
11. What are your engineers working on for LindowsOS 5.0? What new features are to be expected on 5.0?
Kevin Carmony: LindowsOS 5.0 will be our most ambitious release to date. It will have KDE 3.2, the 2.6 Kernel, and the new Reiser4 “unbreakable” file system. It also has a new look, that Everaldo and Ingo are working on. It also has a new CNR client (click-n-run) which has been re-written from the ground up, giving us the infrastructure for many of the new products and services that we’ll be introducing this year, such as LindowsOS Professional. We will also be introducing some NEW KDE applications, never before seen. Not to worry if you don’t use LindowsOS, as these new KDE applications will be open source.
Normally we don’t like talking about stuff before it comes out. Oops. 😉
12. You recently announced that Lindows.com now goes after the business desktop too. Will that be a different distro version than your home version? Can your 40-50-employee company offer professional support to the demanding business market?
Kevin Carmony: LindowsOS Professional will be out later this year. It is a slightly different OS, but 90% of the changes are server side. One of the things you’ll be able to do with LindowsOS Professional is deploy applications to desktops within an organization via any web browser, using our CNR technology. There will also be server-side features, such as data storage, syncing, groupware, etc. A company will also be able to co-mingle their own software library with our CNR Warehouse.
We have 65 employees and are growing. Yes, we’re confident that we can offer a solid product for businesses. If you look at most new, disruptive technology, it’s the small, new companies that innovates, not the “big boys.” Amazon.com, Yahoo!, Google, eBay, Red Hat, and even Apple, AOL, Dell and Microsoft in their day, were all small, yet they each forged new industries. Big companies rarely innovate. When a company is already on top, they see no need to fix or change anything. So yes, the big boys will have their hands full with Lindows.com.
13. Anything else you’d like to add?
Kevin Carmony: Just a ‘thank you’ for letting me answer your questions. We have always had a super vibrant community among LindowsOS users, but we were so busy the last two years just building our product, we didn’t do a very good job of communicating with the outside world. I think our lack of communication outside of our own community led to some misunderstandings about us. I have personally been trying to make myself more available to correct that. In the absence of hearing from Lindows.com directly, it’s easy for misunderstandings to arise. So, thank you for helping us educate your readers with what we’re trying to accomplish here at Lindows.com.
Related reading: DesktopOS.com’s interview with Kevin Carmony.
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First, great interview, cant wait for 5.0!
Im a lifetime member, the choicepc thing, but I cant see the development iso in my downloads over at lindows.com..
Should I bother to dowsload it for free now?
Sure, go ahead. If it doesn’t show up in your special cart, use the text coupon to download it from the normal cart.
This interview seems to put Lindows pretty much in a good light, actually to the point one can understand their position. I guess to be fair it seems theyve created a good desktop distribution of Debian Linux. Still though I think he was a little dimisive about competition from at least Xandros. Though I dont know of Xandros being on OEM it doesnt appear to be a good desktop distribution as well. As far as I go, I dont like making computers on the cheap 😉 so I wouldnt opt for the OEMs if I were to get Lindows, though I’ll wait to see the reviews of their 5 version first.
does*
And just how much market share do you think Xandros have? 0,1%?
Just like Kevin says, the real market lies not within the existing Linux community – not for a product like Lindows.com.
/ealm
LindowsOS Lifetime member since 2 days ago
You need a credit card to get the free download and I don’t have one. So much for that.
I got excited there for about 3 minutes.
Good to see Lindows communicating with the people. I don’t know much about Lindows, though we are selling it, and I think Germany will stay SuSE-country.But: It is good to see people concentrating on the desktop, there are not many choices for real beginners. And I think that is the point: the time is now, where you don’t necessarily come from Windows to Linux but can grow up with a Linux Environment from the Beginning. If my parents would switch to Linux, there must be a good and easy distribution: Easy to set up, easy to install applications, easy to use etc.If Lindows can provide this: Very good.
Linux needs normal users. We actually have enough freaks.
Let the flaming begin 😉
>You need a credit card to get the free download and I don’t have one
It didn’t ask me for a credit card…
Yea very fulfilling interview. Lindows.com has my full support even though my main OS is Windows XP with a full firewall + anti virus software running non-stop
but I always look forward to switching to a Linux based OS. At the moment I keep an eye on LindowsOS and XandrOS. I may wait until LindowsOS 5.0 comes out. Good luck to both of them.
It asks for a credit card no for the CNR, first 15 days it’s free after that you’ll have to pay. So you could evaluate Lindows OS for free for 15 days.
>It didn’t ask me for a credit card…
I had to make an account. I guess that’s what required the credit card number. All I had to do was hit cancel and I went back to my cart.
Everything is fine now. Wish me luck, I’m on 56k.
I can only recommend the ChoicePC deal. For $100 you get every version of LindowsOS + Click n Run for all of your/Lindows lifetime. It’s the same price as 5.0 + 1 year of CnR so go figure…
Forgot the URL: http://choicepc.com/
I registered @ their site but it asks me for my credit card number. The problem is that don’t have one
Eugenia, how did you downloaded lindows?
Go here: https://shop.lindows.com/shopping/shopping_coupon_redemption.php
Type “IReadOSNews” in the coupon code field.
The reason you people missed this is since you didn’t read the check-out page carefully enough
When you get to that screen just click My Products at the top and it will take you to the download page.
Dougie
Good interview,
It was good to see inside the mind of a Lindows guy. I wont be giving up SuSE as my Linux distribution, not ever. But, it did give me a better understanding of Lindows.com.
i selected “My Products / CD Downloads / LindowsOS 4.5 Developers Installation CD”
is this correct? it’s 544.01 MB big
I’m downloading the iso right now, thanks to Kevin & Eugenia for giving me this chance. =)
and there are multiple products listed for download, so i am wondering if i’m in the right place since someone above said it would take you right to the download page
I must admit, I held alot of misconceptions about Lindows. I frankly never was very interested in even looking into it.
Also, I certainly appreciated the candidness, the lack of market-speak, and the free download. I probably never would have tried Lindows out before, but now Im definatly going to give it a go on one of my boxes. Who knows, maybe I’ll like it after all.
I’ll at least have some fun finding out.
Wow, great interview. I was skeptical about Lindows before, but this does a lot to win me over. For example, it convinced me that Lindows.com has healthy long-term plans and a lot of energy, meaning it’s probably worth supporting. Gonna download that ISO now.
I am downloading it right now. I am a big debian fan (writing this from debian unstable bootstrapped from a knoppix cd), and I always wanted to try lindows.
But since I have no real need for it it would be hard to justify spending 60$. But since they seem to support my favorite desktop environment (KDE) and my favorite file system (Reiser) financially, I just might buy a copy for my mother if I like it.
Thank you very much!
Thanks for the OSNews coupon. Will be good to see your OS in action. BTW – Ever thought of doing a Live CD and marketing it in a cool way?
There is a LiveCD already.
IMO the Lindows live-CD won’t be that great .
What really makes Lindows shine is it’s CNR but the liveCD doesn’t have it.
If this thing works I’ll consider the ChoicePC thing; France still has a hundred vacancies. That’s a pretty damn good deal
🙂
that’s a joke, right…?!
i nearly fell out of my chair when i read that while getting my free copy. i remembered something around $5 per month (or was that some sort of “light” – membership, anyways, i was informed during the process just of the regular membership) which would be ok given the prices of red hat and sun (but suse is still way cheaper), but $15…sorry, this is simply ridiculous (especially if you consider that win xp i delivered with every computer and you’ve payed maybe $50 for it)!
btw, is c&r membership needed for access to bugfixes/small updates?
I don’t know from where you’ve got that.
CnR costs $50/year or $5/month:
https://shop.lindows.com/member/lindows_home_member_step1.php
Of course you can still get the lifetime of both CnR and all LindowsOS’es for $100! (http://www.choicepc.com)
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to try Lindows. I’m wondering, when I go to My Products -> CD Downloads it seems that I can download all the CD, not only the Developers one ?
I was just about to install NetBSD to my testbox but now I think I’ll test drive Lindows for a couple of days first, thanks to your generous offer.
I’ve given to understand that Lindows defaults to KDE desktop. I’d like to see a company like Lindows to pick some light-weight window manager (XFCE, WindowMaker, Fluxbox) and turn it into a polished desktop. Now, that would be something I would (almost) be ready to pay for.
BTW, does anyone know a GNU/Linux distro that uses WindowMaker as the default window manager?
Aye.. I’m tilted in favour towards the ChoicePC thingy. Esp. that I’m still so young
“I don’t know from where you’ve got that.”
http://shop.lindows.com/user/mylindows_welcome.php
quote:
[…]
Secure your FREE Trial Now!
To make sure that we have the correct billing information on file for charges incurred beyond your trial time, please click on the Sign Me Up button below and choose a payment method.
You will authorize Lindows.com to debit your account for any charges incurred in excess of your free trial period.
Remember! Your first 15 days are FREE!
You won’t be charged the monthly $14.95 membership fee during your trial time! And, you can cancel at anytime.
unquote
afterwards, you’re supposed to give your billing-information for c&r which suggests that you have to give it before you can download lindowsos which – supposed you’re clever enough to look for and chose the download-category at the left side of the screen which many users (especially unexperienced) might not – is _not_ the case!
leaves a _very_ bitter taste, i must say…
This interview really clears up some important points. As lifetimemember (beside my Xandros V2
I have to admit that your statements form a more detailed look towards LindowsOS.
But I have to disagree with that “long-term”-issue about beeing “root” as “normal user”. In your answers you forget that beeing a “normal” users will prevent you for doing “stupid faults” like deleting everything form “/” in konqueror or doing a capital fault while learning some things in a console window (rm -rf
….
So YES – TODAY its very unlikly that a LindowsOS-user as root will suffer form an “outside”-attack (this will maybe change very fast when Linux will have to deal with virus, hoax and worms in the mid-near future)
BUT – beeing “root” is a hudge security hole if the “administrator” itself is the “average user” (PEBCAC
After reading this, as far as i’m concerned, any GNU/Linux user who disparages Lindows can go to heck. They’re giving back to the community (more so than many GNU/Linux companies), promoting GNU/Linux positively and helping make advancements in GNU/Linux on the desktop.
I’m not a Lindows user, but looking at the next release, Kernel 2.6, KDE 3.2 – it looks fantastic and those who use Lindows seem to be in for a definite treat.
I think these Lindows and Xandros guys are being too cute by half, when they claim that they compete against m’soft and not eachother.
example:
– lindows released 4.5 (minor version update) on the exact same day as xandros released their major version release 2.0
– for a while when u searched “lindows” at google, a xandros google ad would appear on the right.
– lindows has hired ex-xandros developers
no competition? its literally cut throat. both excellent distros and nice interview!
Well I’m kinda surprised it had to take a big interview like this to clear some of these issues up, ie. hasn’t it been known for a while now that Lindows doesn’t make users root by default?
Anyways, I liked that analogy about the crossection and linux security.. Innovation has always been the driving force of real successfull companies and we need more thinking like that in the Linux world (too many distro’s just copy paste imho).
Nice long interview, good read. Thumbs up for the free download, very nice gesture!
I don’t know whether Kevin Carmona will read this, but I hope he does. One of the biggest problems that new Linux users face is the lack of standard and easy-to-follow manuals to teach them how to use the operating system.
If you walk into any major bookstore, you wil find hundreds of books on how to use Microsoft Office or Microsoft XP. This actually does lower the cost of ownership of a product by reassuring the user that there will be a knowledge pool from which she can draw, if she ever needs it.
While Usenet and the linux documentation project are great, professionally written and edited documentation is needed. Red Hat’s Linux Bible books were a good start, but not generic enough to apply fully to other distributions, and I presume those will be discontinued after Red Hat extricated itself from the retail market.
The task of writing a good generic book for desktop users is complicated by the fact that each Linux distribution creates its own menu structure, and in the case of Lindows, its own nomenclature for menus. Additonally, the directory layout is not uniform so that RedHat, Debian and Mandrake place their init scripts in one place while Suse and Slackware place them in a different one.
I happen to agree with you that Linux distributions can only grow significantly by taking marketshare from Microsoft, rather than from each other. Based on this assessment, what is preventing closer cooperation with the other major distributions to resolve some of the problems I mentioned?
Specifically, I believe if the menu lay-out options were unified, then a generic book could be written with specific chapters, addressing the configuration tools of each distribution. Doing tech support becomes significantly easier when a given menu option can be expected at a defined location.
BTW, great interview and thanks for the download.
We made this shift almost two years ago, but it’s funny how long it takes to get past the first thing someone hears about you. I guess it’s true what they say about first impressions, they’re very hard to shake.
Not merely first impressions. Most people disregard the OS and .com ending of names. Once that happen, there is only one typological difference with Windows. Even if people imagine it as Lindows.com and LindowsOS instead of Lindows, Lindows guys have to be honest with themselves – why Lindows? There are hundreds of possible better names – why a name that would forever be associated with a competitor’s product?
And when you no longer what to keep the company associated with your competitor’s product, keeping the name seems a little dumb. Face it, Lindows is new, it is easier to change brand names today than much later on when the need to shrug off its Windows connection grows much bigger.
Considering we’re not profitable and lose money each month, I’m very happy with the amount of support we give to open source projects.
If by two years my company isn’t breaking even, I wouldn’t be happy in throwing around money on things my potential competitors can and possibly will use. It makes amazingly little sense. If you are making much money, I can relate. But how does KDE-look.org and KDE-app.org benefit Lindows? Little. All good themes end up in KDE’s CVS anyway.
So, Linux also needs marketing, distribution, education, leadership, vision, and so on. I’d like to think Lindows.com is doing a great deal in this area.
I would think not. Linux wouldn’t win by getting unto Walmart.com. Where the money comes is from the corporate market, and quite frankly, LindowsOS isn’t that attractive (no offence). And (what I assume) Lindow’s money maker, CNR – I have doubts corporations would be that interested.
(BTW, I’m not debating that targeting home users won’t work, I’m saying targeting the corporate market makes far more money).
As long as Dell only offers MS Windows on their desktop computers, even the smallest system builder can now beat Dell pricing, simply by getting rid of the expensive “Microsoft Tax.”
No. I once was part of an OEM company. The smallest companies can beat Dell anyday with or without Windows. For American OEMs, the cost of an OEM license is $40, not much when the cost is transfered to the customer.
The KooBox is a good example of this. This is full computer with a flat-pannel LCD monitor for only $449. Dell can’t get to those prices, because they have to pay Microsoft and The KooBox doesn’t.
No. Just say Dell decides to dump Windows and load Lindows. Does the price drop dramaticaly? Why should it? Considering its volume, I would be suprise they pay any more than $20 per computer for Windows, they couldn’t slash out a few hundred dollars.
And does KooBox offer the same degree of support as Dell? (i.e. if you move to, say, Netherlands, where do you get support, claim warranty, etc.?)
BTW, thanks for the free download. Downloading now, doubt I would keep it long (I’m increasingly attracted to using FreeBSD). I doubt I would have much need for Lindows – the only reason why I use Windows is applications (and the same goes for my family). Difficulty and polish matter very little to me. But I must commend you, this is a very good marketing pitch – you would get customers that probably would have never considered Lindows.
And does KooBox offer the same degree of support as Dell? (i.e. if you move to, say, Netherlands, where do you get support, claim warranty, etc.?)
Because of Dell’s lousy support I will never buy a Dell again. They didn’t ship the right products in first place and their phone support has been worse than bad.
If by two years my company isn’t breaking even, I wouldn’t be happy in throwing around money on things my potential competitors can and possibly will use. It makes amazingly little sense. If you are making much money, I can relate. But how does KDE-look.org and KDE-app.org benefit Lindows? Little. All good themes end up in KDE’s CVS anyway.
Maybe because people (like me) feel good about such companies. In my case it led to a lifetime Lindows membership.
…Linux wouldn’t win by getting unto Walmart.com. Where the money comes is from the corporate market, and quite frankly…
…and there’s more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens’t sell weapons!
Seriously though – heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)
No. I once was part of an OEM company. The smallest companies can beat Dell anyday with or without Windows. For American OEMs, the cost of an OEM license is $40, not much when the cost is transfered to the customer.
For a sub $200 computer, $40 is over 20% of the price. And then you won’t get all the free applications of CnR.
There is an other good interview at DesktopOS.com
Thye both come out at the same time…
http://www.desktopos.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1
Because of Dell’s lousy support I will never buy a Dell again. They didn’t ship the right products in first place and their phone support has been worse than bad.
I once worked for a Dell Service Provider, most of the customers would give a good review. In fact, compared with any other tier one OEM, Dell gives the best support. But like every product and service, there is always customers that get burned.
As for shipping of the wrong products, unless you directly request for something, the Call Center normally diagnose the problem and predict the required product for a repair.
…and there’s more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens’t sell weapons!
Seriously though – heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)
Is it out now?
For two years, they have been targeting home users. Think of your average home user – would they really care what OS they would use? Nope, not really. And if you think about it – how much incentive is there for them to change OS? If they buy a Mac, for example, they can manage their photos and music easier out of the box (as well as buy downloaded music legally), easily edit their videos, and now, their own music.
In other words, I have no reason to use Lindows if I was a normal Windows user.
Besides, my father keeps a copy of Windows 2000 on his laptop even though the laptop came with Windows XP. Wonder why? His office uses Windows 2000. In addition to that, the office uses Office 97, and while he has the potential to buy Office 2003, he buys Office 97.
You may be asking, WHY?!? He doesn’t the complications of having different versions. Now imagine different *software*.
For a sub $200 computer, $40 is over 20% of the price. And then you won’t get all the free applications of CnR.
For $200, you can probably get a VIA C3, around 800MHz, 20GB of hard disk space, 64-128MB of memory, basic keyboard and mouse and probably a cheap 24watt speaker. Not much of a market, no? Most people buying a new computer want at least CD burning capabilities, probably the ability to watch the DVDs they bought, play a few games if need. That $200 box does none of that.
So unless you don’t plan to use the computer much, except for a few times a month, that $200 PC makes little sense. Or a computer for that toddler to do her pre-school games while you do some serious work on the main family computer Either way, the market is very small, very unprofitable.
BTW, the average price for computer sold is $800, which is more or less 20% of the Asian (minus Japan) market. I expect North America, the average price to be higher.
Besides, my point was that Windows licenses play a small part of an average computer’s cost, and big OEMs are a hundred or two more expensive than small-time OEMs not because of Windows, but because of things like support cost, warranty, transport, etc. And all I’m saying that if small-time OEMs can’t bring companies like Dell down now, Lindows would be little help.
When i type IReadOSNews i get this error
Coupon iREADOSNews is not intended for the product/service you are trying to apply it to.
How do i type so the letters dont change capital
damn the download is confusing once you create the account the n you have to click on the tabs on the left side to access the iso download and wait in line for the download to start not enough info about what to do instead you get plastered with the 15 day trial thing that asks all your details and stuff.. i thought it would email me instructions or allow me to download after the invoice. well confusing.
ended up making 3 order invoices.. sorry about that heh heh
to be honest when i first heard of lindows alarm bells sounded wasnt sure whether to trust them or not and at first i have to say they got a lot of bad press by people not trusting your actions, i didnt trust them at all aswell. It just seemed like some fat cats coming in turning other peoples hard work and trying to claim all the credits, what microsoft is known for..
in all honesty WHEN you become successful, i hope you dont become greedy and turn all your attention to being like another microsoft. As in i hope you continue contributing. Which if as you say you already have spent such amounts of money and carry doing so, it can only be a good thing as the developers can in turn devote more of their time to developing while at the same time every one benefits, even cornering 10 % of the desktop market share would be awesome.
also to rajanr corporate desktops may have more money to pay up front, but to put you in a situation say alot of people end up running lindows and they for example call up their isp for technical support and the isp turns around and says sorry we dont support that platform after a while if they get more and more calls they will then have to support that platform to support it they in turn will need lindows running locally. Basically once you crack the home users business users will have to support the home user, so its a wise decision but a risky one aswell. because lindows has to have a fat share of the home user market which again is a good thing, the less share microsoft has the better the more the market space opens up and microsoft will have to compete with better software rather than bullshit FUD, the very emergence of linux as a good alternative caused the shake up which is windows 2k and xp, if they hadnt had done something they would have lost market share, if linux didnt exist i would bet there would be another resell of the 9x shit, because they could and because milking a shit product was within their power.
one thing thats kind of pissed me off is if you were the ones that helped codeweavers setup and established cross over office and contributed half a million to codeweaveres it seems kind of greedy the amount they charge for their tool, I can understand their need for money still, but the 60 odd dollars is just plain extortion. I refuse to pay that, as its just damn right greedy.
Well im gonna give this thing a trial run who knows if its good, i may well buy the 5 when it comes out. (long time debian user)
Well, I’ve got a much better impression of Lindows after reading this interview. I’d echo Rajan that they seem remarkably prolific for a company that isn’t making money, but I guess they have a plan. We’ll soon find out if they don’t.<p>
The audio tutorials were impressive, though unfortunately the Linux version of macromedias flash player shows its suckyness once again – I got constant freezes thanks to esd
<p>
SELinux over user/root, yes, very smart. I’d not be surprised to see this happen soon, probably after Fedora 2 comes out with it.<p>
As for Wine – well, of course I still think it’s very important but then I’m a Wine developer so I would. While I agree that using Wine to run apps for which there are good free software equivalents is pretty silly, many computer users have existing software libraries (games in particular) that they simply won’t leave behind.
“…and there’s more money in selling weapons than in any computer business. Still everyone doens’t sell weapons!
Seriously though – heard of LindowsOS Professional? (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1437960,00.asp)”
Is it out now?
For two years, they have been targeting home users. Think of your average home user – would they really care what OS they would use? Nope, not really. And if you think about it – how much incentive is there for them to change OS? If they buy a Mac, for example, they can manage their photos and music easier out of the box (as well as buy downloaded music legally), easily edit their videos, and now, their own music.
In other words, I have no reason to use Lindows if I was a normal Windows user.
Besides, my father keeps a copy of Windows 2000 on his laptop even though the laptop came with Windows XP. Wonder why? His office uses Windows 2000. In addition to that, the office uses Office 97, and while he has the potential to buy Office 2003, he buys Office 97.
You may be asking, WHY?!? He doesn’t the complications of having different versions. Now imagine different *software*.
I think the one thing that needs to be acknowledge is this. Linux software sucks.
I’ll give you a real world example from 3 months ago. A family friend, running Windows 2000 was hit by the blaster worm, he was rather disgruntled from the point of view that he does the right thing. He updates the software, checks for virus definitions on the net and defrags the hard disk, in other words, he a perfect user.
He doesn’t use his computer for a couple of weeks as he used his work laptop in that time. He turns on his computer and connects to the internet to do a bit of surfing. Within a few minutes he was infected with the Blaster worm.
He calls me over and I get rid of the worm, update his software and virus definitions. We got talking about Windows and he asked, “is there an alternative to Windows? I’m sure there must be something better out there”. I explained that there is Linux and FreeBSD, however, I would suggest Linux for a first time user. We got chatting and he was quite impressed about running Office 2000 on Codeweavers wine, surfing the internet, sending emails. He enjoyed the whole experience.
Now, the big crux was the fact that he couldn’t run the games he wanted to. He had a Joystick and a number of flight simulation games. If it were just the Office suite, a few card games and so forth, it wouldn’t be much of an issue, however, the fact is that he could neither run the games he had nor go out and buy update versions that could run on Linux.
One thing I need to stress is this, he was quite happy to purchase a new flight simulator, however, since there is no flight simulator for Linux of similarity to Microsoft Flight Simulator or Janes Flight Simulator, I wasn’t able to sell the concept of using Linux for this persons desktop.
That is what let down it. Not the desktop, the installation or even the hardware support. What let down the adoption was the lack of applicaitons.
What Lindows SHOULD do is stop trying to create NEW applications and instead work WITH Adobe, EA Games, Macromedia, Corel, MYOB, Quicken etc etc and partially/fully pay for the porting of applications to the Lindows operating system.
The fact is, people are happy with the chosen software, they just want an better operating system but still have the ability to run all the applications they use to. Why should I give up functionality for the sake of a better operating system? Its time Linux companies realised that it isn’t the operating system itself but the lack of applications which is holding back Linux’s adoption as a viable desktop solution.
Microsoft know this and hence, they aren’t worried. They’ll only start worrying when the Adobes and Macromedias of the world start saying, “there is a real future in Linux, we better start porting out applications over”. The day that happens will be the day Microsoft will start shaking in their boots.
http://flightgear.org/
How to get past this form??
Eugenia, how did you do that?
For $200, you can probably get a VIA C3, around 800MHz, 20GB of hard disk space, 64-128MB of memory, basic keyboard and mouse and probably a cheap 24watt speaker. Not much of a market, no? Most people buying a new computer want at least CD burning capabilities, probably the ability to watch the DVDs they bought, play a few games if need. That $200 box does none of that.
Well, the low-end PC market has grown alot in recent years. This is also the home market where Linux stands the best chance against Windows.
I once worked for a Dell Service Provider, most of the customers would give a good review. In fact, compared with any other tier one OEM, Dell gives the best support. But like every product and service, there is always customers that get burned.
As for shipping of the wrong products, unless you directly request for something, the Call Center normally diagnose the problem and predict the required product for a repair.
Here in Sweden Dell is known for bad quality and service. (as well as lousy conditions for it’s employees)
BTW, the average price for computer sold is $800, which is more or less 20% of the Asian (minus Japan) market. I expect North America, the average price to be higher.
True, but still the sectors growing most are laptops and really cheap low.end PCs. Lindows aims for both.