Sun to Windows-certify x86 hardware

“I assume that this post is just a ghastly mistake as one would have taken the time to read the article as it explicitly refers to SUN Microsystems x86 line of products and not UltraSPARC products using the SUN PCI product.”

Duh? You don’t have to state the obvious; the point is that Windows already works on Sun hardware.

So much for “Sun is anti {Linux|Windows}”.

Well at least if Sun goes under, some of thier hardware will fetch better prices on Ebay if you can run more software on it.

dpi, that SunPCi card is superb. If Apple had this, it would make moving to the Mac so much nicer (real hardware is obviously superior to any software emulation like Virtual PC).

Maybe this is only the beginning for Sun. What if they start actually pre-loading Windows as an OS option on their x86 boxes and even offer support for it also? A lot of *nix guys will jump off their balconies if that happens.

They are still alive ( http://www.orangemicro.com/ ) but they no longer sell a PC PCI card.

they are in the next version i believe. i read it a while back. it’ll be integrated with the CLR and be able to return objects.

personally i don’t think that Microsft Linux is possible but i would like to see them (pipe dream) move on POSIX environment (they could use one of the BSDs) so that I could compile KDE for it and still play my games.

I don’t think Sun is going to resell Windows, I think their strategy is to burden Microsoft with the task of supporting end user customers, something they normally dump in the laps of the OEMs and are not accustomed to doing themselves. It’s a stretch, to be sure, but Microsoft would end up looking pretty stupid unless the strategy backfires and Microsoft successfully points the finger back at Sun. There is a good chance that user’s perceptions will sway however. For example; even though I know some HP Pavillion or Compaq Presario is; outsourced to Acer, low price point, garbage, I won’t buy anything from either of those labels for dumping the junk into the market in the first place. I suppose I’ll get moderated down for having an opinion and being critical (especially against Microsoft) but that’s just how OSNews is I guess.

If I were in the position of needing to buy a Windows x86 server, I could see myself going to IBM. Probably not HP. Maybe Dell even more than IBM. Most likely not Sun.

The point is… IBM has known x86 for a very long time. Same with Windows. Dell is the same way. They have a ton of experience. HP, not so much maybe (though Compaq brings a lot of x86/Windows history).

How is that any different to SUN who has more experience with high end hardware configuration designs than Dell. If you want to talk about “inexperience”, talk to people who have had their whole databased whiped out due to a crappy branded server.

Considering that SUN is using Intel chipset with Intel CPU, their configurations are NO different to IBM and yet, their prices are almost equal.

As for Sun, their distaste for Microsoft is just short of legendary. We know how they feel about Windows — they bash it every chance they get. (And I’m not necessarily saying they’re unjustified.)

Maybe you should do some research instead of making unsubstaintiated claims. Yes, SUN dislikes Windows but for reasons out side the typical reasons given by some people here.

Who developed WABI? SUN developed WABI and at every opportunity Microsoft made sure that their API moved more times than exotic dancer on a pole. There are also numerous other issues such as the lack of Microsoft sticking to contracts.

I understand there might be a very, very tiny percentage of people out there that might actually look to Sun (rather than Dell, et al) for a Windows/x86 solution. But it just seems odd for Sun to even waste the effort to woo such a small population. Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps I’m completely underestimating the opportunity.

Maybe there are people out there who may need a replacement server, however, they need it to run Windows before they move it to another operating system. They need the system to run Windows until all the necessary custom applications are ported.

If SUN can provide the x86 server that can run Windows then once the porting has done, Solaris can then be loaded back on, isn’t it a benefit rather than a hinderance to the adoption of SUN hardware?

My major concern is that Sun has been ALL OVER the map in the past couple of years in terms of the solutions it offers. They’re almost trying to be “everything” to “everyone”. Everybody knows they’re struggling to get back in the black. Stuff like this just looks like desperation and hurts consumer confidence, IMO.

How are SUN all over the place? You want some one all over the place, look at the disorganisation of HP or IBM, are they Power4? Itanium? Intel? Mainframes? what? they’re a ball of confusion. Worse still, trying to actually speak to someone at IBM is next to impossible. They hide themselves behind 100s of layers of menus on the telephone in the hope that you give up and stop annoying them.

Yes, Sun can sell Windows/x86 servers because “that’s what people want”, and that’s fine. But when it does that, I think it certainly marginalizes its own “in-house” solutions (SPARC/Solaris), in the mind of public opinion. Why buy a SPARC server if Sun’s position is that a Windows/x86 machine would suffice? I think that’s where Sun has lost a lot of ground (“in-house”).

Why does it “marginalise” when they don’t even OFFER Windows. They’re simply going to shove a sticker on the blastered server that says, “this machine can run Windows if you so wish”.

What the question will be soon is whether or not SPARC has a place as the Opteron servers become a flagship SUN product. Will the last nail be hit into the SPARC coffin? IMHO, if SUN can work with AMD to scale Opteron to the same heights as SPARC then the successor to SPARC will be exist.

It used to be, during the dot-com times, people went to Sun because they had something that nobody else provided (SPARC/Solaris). But since then, the x86 industry is leaving SPARC behind. Bad for Sun. Because now Sun is forced to enter into a much more competitive arena (x86). In the world of IBM, HP, and Dell, Sun is a relative lightweight. IBM is a behemoth and Sun is a rather small company (at least in terms of the market caps). But now Sun is trying to compete with IBM, et al with the same products (x86). Can they hang?

No, that isn’t the case. SUN won over people because of good marketing, hype and customers with more money than sense.

People are now asking, “I need something that is good enough, not necessarily perfect, but good enough”. If a customer can save $2000 and have a server which is 99.9999% vs 99.99999% reliable, can one really justify paying an extra $2000 for an extra 0.00001% reliability?

SUN is now saying, “well, you can buy an x86 server and run Solaris, you’ve got a cheaper server with a rock solid operating system”. As I said, their x86 servers are profitable along with their software and services. What is killing the company is the SPARC and the amount of R&D they’re wasting on it.

Sun wants to offer choice in the industry. They will offer Solaris on all servers and they are really beefing up that platform with a desktop version as well. As for windows, I suspect that sun will tell you that if you want to run windows on our x86 hardware then its certified to do so. It would be a plus for customers who want to run that horrid OS.

No doubt sun HATES microsoft mainly because of MS’s way of trying to screw over Java after Sun licensed Java to them. (according to their software CEO) Now they hit back with .Net… Sun just wants customers to know they can if they want. It would provide better value for customers although I doubt they will offer Windows pre-installed.

Sun really loves solaris and they don’t care for linux much, they use it because theres alot of x86 drivers for it and customer demand. They do love the *BSD Platforms alot though. I love the *BSD Platforms too! They’re more scalable than linux- so why not (well FreeBSD is more scalable than linux and OpenBSD is more secure for the time being) Now with future versions of Linux I’m unsure. But I don’t have a problem with Linux It will probably surpass *BSD because Linux jacked abuncha BSD Code (Yes, Linux contains millions of lines of BSD code which is perfectly legal)

If sun starts offering windows for sale as they offer SuSE and Red Hat that might be because of some potential deal they might make with M$ to continue offering Java or something. It’s possible and that might be the only reason. They also might get a good deal or something. But Sun is not going to just offer Microsoft Products for sale or preinstalled if they don’t give something back. As for the certified hardware for windows- that’s just a plus for consumers. Although I personally hate M$

Long live Solaris(BSD-Based) and the *BSD platforms!

>>As I said, their x86 servers are profitable along with their software and services. What is killing the company is the SPARC and the amount of R&D they’re wasting on it.<<

All very good and valid points. Sun needs the SPARC for now for their high-end systems, no way they’re getting around that. I don’t know the numbers, but are the x86 servers, software, etc. small or big potatoes for Sun’s bottom line? How do we know x86 is doing well for Sun for any other reason than the lack of major technology spending (i.e., the low-end server is hot, mid- and high-end not so hot)? Take out the SPARC, and will they really be bringing in much cash?

Yes they would bring in the cash. As I have said, their software is profitable, their services is profitable and god forbid, they ship more x86 servers than SPARC and even that is profitable.

The x86 margins are great, their sofware margins are something that is boasted about and their services growth is the envy of the company.

I’m very concerned about Sun being able to compete long-term in the x86 market. It’s a very tight and competitive market. Maybe the Opteron will be a huge boost, but you can bet that Intel will work to out-do AMD within no time.

Considering that the only other competitor offering Opteron will be IBM, I think that SUN will be pretty safe for now.

I guess to hammer it home, IBM has said, with the past week’s earnings report, that they’re expecting a great year for their server products. Sun has pretty much given an, “ehhh… we dunno… maybe we’ll be out of the red, maybe not” forecast. Not so pretty. Technology spending is (reportedly) turning around. Time to capitalize!

Well, SUN should grab the bull by the horns and go for it. Fujitsu has a great SPARC chip, why on gods green earth does SUN keep throwing money into a bottomless pit when a joint venture with fujitsu will allow them to pull themselves ahead and given themselves a competitive chip to take the Intel crowd on with.

If they spin the production out to TSMC and UMC, assembly is outsourced to onto the Chinese mainland, the cost of SUN servers should drop dramatically. The fact is, it isn’t the raw price of the server but the cost vs the performance vs. feature advantage. SUN need to realise that gone of the days of producing hardware in the US. Cost of production is too high and unfortunately SUN is the last work out that they should have moved production off shore a long time ago.

If they spin the production out to TSMC and UMC, assembly is outsourced to onto the Chinese mainland, the cost of SUN servers should drop dramatically. SUN need to realise that gone of the days of producing hardware in the US. Cost of production is too high and unfortunately SUN is the last work out that they should have moved production off shore a long time ago.

I suppose the SPARC is probably more expensive than Intel’s chips simply because its production is much less vast. I’m sure Intel churns out processors like toilet paper. That’s a fair advantage. But if it comes down to something like “Sun (TI) produces chips in the US and competitors produce chips in China”, then that is just absurdly sad. And if that is true, kudos to Sun for not selling out on the people that made their business.

Perhaps it’s a point of politics, but I think US regulators should step in and “even the field” between US and “other” production models where appropriate.

I know I’m alone on this one — but I’m not working on foreign turf on this issue. I am very well educated as to the current state of affairs, and it’s simply shameful IMO.

What an absurd thing it would be for Sun to be marginalized in the industry simply because it doesn’t take advantage of the “labor” in China. What insanity.

John

Companies are not in the business of pumping up peoples patritic feel good factor.

Of course not, but they should be in the business of pumping up the capital of potential customers. With all due respect, it’s not going to be the shareholders or the $7/hr (!!! certainly not in China?) workers buying Sun products.

Go ahead and layoff the US workers at TI. They’ll just have to trim back some their ordinary expenses… like internet and cell phones. Don’t people get it?

See the pattern?

Yeah, I see the pattern. I see the American economy and market constricting rather substantially the past few years. Apparently somewhere between the layoffs and the offshoring, people decided to spend less of their money. Imagine that.

As to the earlier point, Sun and TI have a plan to reach 0.09 within due time. But Sun has made it somewhat clear that it’s not getting hyped into the “clock speed” wars and the such w/ its SPARC chip. It has other plans (throughput computing, etc.) that it’s eyeing up.

J