“One of my dirty little secrets is that I have never successfully installed Linux on anything. I’ve tried many times over the years, because I bought into the idea that it could revitalize old computers. I’d cobble together a 486 processor, some no-name disk controller, a clonky old hard disk, a VGA card from the Boer War, and off we’d go. My Linux experience terminated shortly thereafter with an incomprehensible error message concerning IRQ 9, lost interrupts or goblins in the bidirectional bus buffers.” Read the commentary at ZDNews.
Almost by stealth, the Linux desktop is here
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
They said this in 1998
They said this in 1999
They said this in 2000
They said this in 2001
They said this in 2002
They said this in 2003
They’re saying this in 2004 too
2005? 2006?
I don’t know what “They said”, but it “is here” for me since 2001. And I don’t mean it a Linux fiddled with manual configurations (I quite like it), but an all automated. For those still waiting, let them continue to be so.
True, there’s still a long way for Linux to go before it’s as easy to use and practical as Windows/Mac OS as a desktop OS.
But it is getting a lot closer every year.
I’ve been using Mandrake Linux 9.2 and the latest version of Crossover office. Installation was mostly painless and a lot of the desktop software is usable. Overall it works quite well, there’s just a few really annoying Linux problems and some incompatible software that keeps me using Windows.
Compare that with the state of Linux a few years ago, where even installing an app was usually a nightmare.
I give it 3-4 more years before the rough edges are smoothed out and then it’ll be a really nice desktop OS.
> They’re saying this in 2004 too
indeed. I’ve seen this in every KDE/GNOME release yet.
kde 1.0 released- the linux desktop arrives!
kde 1.1 released- the linux desktop arrives!
gnome 1.0 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
gnome 1.2 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
kde 2.0 released- the linux desktop arrives!
kde 2.1 released- the linux desktop arrives!
gnome 1.4 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
kde 2.2 released- the linux desktop arrives!
kde 3.0 released- the linux desktop arrives!
gnome 2.0 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
kde 3.1 released- the linux desktop arrives!
gnome 2.2 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
gnome 2.4 released- the linux desktop has arrived!
kde 3.2 released- the linux desktop arrives??
Linux desktop has arrived already! You guys can hate all you want, but I think the facts speak for themselves: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist_nov03.html
>Linux desktop has arrived already! You guys can hate all >you want, but I think the facts speak for themselves: >http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist_nov03.html
They certainly do:
Windows 92%
MacOS 3%
Linux 1%
Other 4%
Yes, its quite clear that Linux has already overtaken Windows 95. Clearly, Linux is better than Windows 95, and Windows XP is next.
You guys make me sick beyond cure. Go figure, the most powerful basic Desktop today is on Linux. Take a look at the latest versions of GNOME or KDE and marvel.
Today, I can hardly use Windows XP or Mac OS X without feeling somewhat restricted or without cursing. Just today, in the computer lab, I cringed at the fact that I couldn’t use keyboard shortcuts to minimize/maximize/unmaximize individual window applications on Windows XP.
How about moving windows around with the keyboard? How do you do that in OS X? All these are basic window management manipulations that have been available on X since the dawn of human kind. In fact, I began to wonder how I used Windows all these years without basic window management functionality via the keyboard.
How about claustrophobia? The fact that I had 8 windows open on one single desktop just felt, archiac, arcane, backward and weird to me. How I managed to live without virtual desktops all those years still amuzes me. And no, I’m not willing to shell a dime for basic features I get for free on the Linux Desktop.
For a desktop environment that is free, the Linux Desktop is any {wo}man’s wildest dream come true. These aren’t $60,000 dollar a year programers hired by Microsoft or Apple to write software. These are intelligent and noble group of people working hard so that you and I don’t have to shell out thousands of Dollars tommorrow for your basic computing needs.
If Linux doesn’t fit your needs, great!!! Use XP or OS X or whatever. Just don’t come here spewing crap and FUD, like “They’ve been saying that since 1655, yet Linux isn’t ready for the desktop” Why people derive orgasmic pleasure from trolling whenever a Linux Desktop article is posted on any site perplexes me.
When you ask them why it isn’t ready, you hear them mutter, “Coz I can’t run Photoshop on it” or “Coz my Proprietary web camera doesn’t work because hardware vendors didn’t provide drivers for it” or “Coz I can’t play games”. Their superficiality disturbs me.
>Yes, its quite clear that Linux has already overtaken >Windows 95. Clearly, Linux is better than Windows 95, and >Windows XP is next.
Well I am certainly glad to hear Linux has overtaken what by nearly everyones account is a totally obsolete operating system, vintage 1994. Thats an incredible accomplishment.
Now given the same time frame, Linux will be likely to overtake XP somewhere in 2014.
I use it as a rescue disk for Windows machines
Seriously, desktop Linux has come a huge distance in recent years, and is only getting better. Last year, I helped a friend install RedHat 8 on his machine. It was a pretty mainstream Dell P4. The distro detected everything just fine. In fact, the only remotely difficult thing was installing APT on that machine, and with Fedora that is no longer an issue.
Heck, these days, even *Debian* does excellent hardware detection.
“I already fired 2 employees who tried to sneak Linux into our organization”
Doesn’t that tell you something? Some people find Linux more usable. Just because XP is more popular doesn’t mean it’s better.
In fact, I began to wonder how I used Windows all these years without basic window management functionality via the keyboard.
On M$-Windows, use ALT + SPACE to activate system menu for maximizing, minimizing, restoring and moveing windows.
Lin deskop is not ready because it tries to copy Windows and Windows is constantly going forward, so …
XP offered task based UI, so KDE guys are planing KSidebar …
The tragedy of unix desktop is that they are tied to
the aging X11 and nobody has to ball the ditch it
Has it ever occurred to anyone that every time someone says “Linux is ready for the desktop” they are talking about different desktops? When KDE 1.x came out and they said “the Linux desktop has arrived” they weren’t talking about your mom’s desktop. They were talking about a Linux desktop competitive with CDE. And lo-and-behold, Linux has been on workstation desktops for years now. People who previously used CDE/UNIX on the desktop were among the first to move over to KDE/GNOME/Linux. Then there was the educational desktop. Yep, there are as many Linux machines on my campus as there are MacOS machines. Hell, we had a Linux lab in my highschool. Then came the business desktop. By most accounts, Linux is ready for this desktop too. Its already seen many significant deployments in the business desktop market.
So, what’s next? My guess is the ultra-low-end home desktop. Those $200 Walmart PCs, used by people who don’t need anything more than e-mail and the internet, and don’t ever change anything beyond what the machine comes configured with already. Linux is certainly ready for those people.
While I understand that Linux is ready for the desktop _for you_ I am also disturbed by this statement:
When you ask them why it isn’t ready, you hear them mutter, “Coz I can’t run Photoshop on it” or “Coz my Proprietary web camera doesn’t work because hardware vendors didn’t provide drivers for it” or “Coz I can’t play games”. Their superficiality disturbs me.
It disturbs me that you think these objections are “superficial” – sorry, but even Linus said “it’s all about applications”. A truer statement hasn’t been made. You can have the most brilliant OS on earth, but if you can’t run apps you vitally need, that brilliant OS IS OF NO USE TO YOU. And, sadly, so far Linux has way, way, way, way too many “not there” apps for many/most people. Simple. That doesn’t mean that one day it may change, just it isn’t so for now. I think it is YOU who is superficial, if you think the OS capability is where it is at, _without_ taking app availability into account… sorry, you’re shooting blanks.
P.S. I am an avid Linux supporter.
Many IHVs are just put chipset into a box/package and edit a few lines of chipset companies’ reference drivers.
Where is the incentive to support linux ? doubling the trouble to target 1% to 3% of additional users ?
They are running a business and not doing a graduate school project/paper.
1) Linux on the desktop does not really copy Windows. If anything, GNOME is copying MacOS. KDE’s default set up is rather Windows-like, but the beauty of KDE is that it can feel like anything you want it to (except maybe BeOS
2) WinXP does not have a “task-based UI.” It’s got some task shortcuts in Explorer. That doesn’t count as a task-based UI. When it has an extensible API for specifying generalized tasks, and allows programs to introduce new tasks system-wide, instead of some hard-coded stuff in one program the it’ll count as a task-based UI.
3) As for Linux playing catch-up. It may be playing catch-up on the ease-of-use front, but Windows can’t touch some of the features Linux desktops have. Wake me up when Windows gets the equivilent of KIO, KMDI’s IDEAL mode, KDE’s MacOS-style (but better) menu, system-wide mouse gestures, system-wide password manager, built-in popup management, flexible panel management, fully configurable XML-based UI, etc, etc.
You’re absolutely right. Its all about the apps! Most Linux users are lucky that the apps they need are available on Linux. That’s why Linux is doing much better in the business and workstation desktop market than in the general home-user market.
@Anonymous (pacbell)
When the FDo X server comes out with fully OpenGL-accelerated desktop a year before Longhorn is released, you can eat your comments about X…
3) As for Linux playing catch-up. It may be playing catch-up on the ease-of-use front, but Windows can’t touch some of the features Linux desktops have. Wake me up when Windows gets the equivilent of KIO, KMDI’s IDEAL mode, KDE’s MacOS-style (but better) menu, system-wide mouse gestures, system-wide password manager, built-in popup management, flexible panel management, fully configurable XML-based UI, etc, etc.
All of these are geek toys, and do not mean anything to the average Windows user. The average Windows user needs an internet browser as advanced as IE, a media player as advanced as WMP, digital rights management, advanced security and anti-terrorism features, and the assurance that the world’s largest software company is looking out to make sure their computing experience is world-class.
Wake me up when Linux has something comparable to Microsoft’s trusted computing initiative, and we’ll talk.
Knoppix can even be used as an installation disc for hardcore Linux distributions, like Linux from the Scratch (LFS) or Gentoo. Ordinarily, the installation of such distributions do not afford you a graphical environment and one can do relatively nothing useful until the whole system is installed, which can take a while. But with Knoppix all that has changed.
Knoppix affords you a fully functional and powerful desktop environment while installing time consuming source based distributions, like Gentoo. Thus, little to no productivity is lost while compiling each package from source code.
Yeah, no need to print the Gentoo or LFS handbook while installing them either. 🙂 I understand one can install Slackware and Debian via Knoppix too, but I haven’t tried or confirmed that. So Knoppix is more than just a rescue disk, a hardware test disc, an exhibition disc, or a Linux distribution. It is also an installation disc!!!
It is one of those handy tool every Linux user must have.
Looks no further at the PCI/PnP database.
However, I see no good reason for M$ to attack X11, it is an old cat, but there are just too much investment and too many apps out there for X11.
Unix has a few really good things, like the fork, the pipe (like ls | grep …), so basically, once a programmer is getting familiar with these things, it is hard to do anything without them, like under Win32 GUI, which doesn’t even offer a built-in printf facility.
This is like putting a really comfortable chair into the car, and it is so comfortable, the driver would quit driving the car to enjoy the chair.
“The average Windows user needs … digital rights management, advanced security and anti-terrorism features,”
Wow – you’ve got me laughing in the aisles here!
All of these are geek toys, and do not mean anything to the average Windows user. The average Windows user needs an internet browser as advanced as IE, a media player as advanced as WMP, digital rights management, advanced security and anti-terrorism features, and the assurance that the world’s largest software company is looking out to make sure their computing experience is world-class.
Wake me up when Linux has something comparable to Microsoft’s trusted computing initiative, and we’ll talk.
/me cracks up
Someone get me water.
“Why not just use Windows XP? It is the industry standard. I am the IT manager at a small bussiness and I already fired 2 employees who tried to sneak Linux into our organization.”
When your boss – the director or CIO in your company – realizes that you fired those who could have saved money for the company, he just might fire you.
Seriously I find myself getting more and more irritated when having to use the Win XP desktop for anything serious at work. It so dumbed downn that it’s awkward to use for anything but the home usere playing around with his snapshots and misic files. Yet they have the audacity to call it XP professional – now thats another joke!
Generaly I vnc through to the desktop on my Linux server to get some real work done. It is a relief when I get home not not to have to use such a primitive toy as a desktop.
and do not mean anything to the average Windows user.
——–
The *average* Windows user really doesn’t know that there is anything better out there. If they did, they’d have a Mac. A Mac is a far better machine for the average person, and has been for years. Windows machines in the real world are constantly having problems. Macs tend to “just work.”
The average Windows user needs an internet browser as advanced as IE
———
IE is pretty crappy. Its 2004, and IE doesn’t have:
– Proper HTML and CSS standards support
– Web shortcuts
– Popup management
– Built-in spell-checking
a media player as advanced as WMP
————
Windows Media Player is a hold-back from the past, when users had to keep seperate players to play things like Quicktime or RealMedia. Xine and MPlayer support pretty much every codec under the sun, and have UIs (KMplayer, Totem, etc) available that actually look like the native apps!
digital rights management
————–
Digital Rights Management. The natural evolution for an OS that has always made it hard to see what’s going on under the hood. Now, it’ll be impossible!
advanced security
—————
You mean like NSA-designed security features? Oh, wait, its Linux that has those…
XP offered task based UI, so KDE guys are planing KSidebar …
Speak only for KDE, GNOME has its own style.
When the FDo X server comes out with fully OpenGL-accelerated desktop a year before Longhorn is released, you can eat your comments about X…
Yeah, assume this X server actually deliveres on time and there are actually apps taking advantage of it.
2) WinXP does not have a “task-based UI.” It’s got some task shortcuts in Explorer. That doesn’t count as a task-based UI. When it has an extensible API for specifying generalized tasks, and allows programs to introduce new tasks system-wide, instead of some hard-coded stuff in one program the it’ll count as a task-based UI.
OK, it is not, but it has task bar that KDE is trying to copy 😎
3) As for Linux playing catch-up. It may be playing catch-up on the ease-of-use front, but Windows can’t touch some of the features Linux desktops have. Wake me up when Windows gets the equivilent of KIO, KMDI’s IDEAL mode, KDE’s MacOS-style (but better) menu, system-wide mouse gestures, system-wide password manager, built-in popup management, flexible panel management, fully configurable XML-based UI, etc, etc.
That’s still a catch-up, even only on the ease-of-use front, isn’t it ?
The truth is that for most users, they will just use the default settings, the most important part is the applications. Since DVD+-RW drives are hot, tell me a linux based app that could do limilar things as Adobe Encore DVD, DVD Studio pro or consumer firendly MyDVD that boundled with many DVD writers, not to mention the so called Hollywood standard Sonic Senarist Pro.
Also, the DV editing is hot thanks to advances in mini-DV cameras and please offer a linux based app that do similar things as Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Vegas Video or Avid Express or maybe just M$’ MovieMaker in XP (without compiling modules, etc)
IE is pretty crappy. Its 2004, and IE doesn’t have:
– Proper HTML and CSS standards support
– Web shortcuts
– Popup management
– Built-in spell-checking
Most users don’t know these fine details, all they care is that for some sites, Mozilla/Opera just would not work.
I’ve been having nothing but trouble getting SuSE 9.0 to run on my ThinkPad. This isn’t a Linux bash because I really want to replace Windows XP with something that I enjoy using, isn’t a vector for viruses, and doesn’t spy on me. However, my experience suggests to me that Linux isn’t ready for the business desktop yet. I couldn’t get it to connect to our networked printers successfully, no matter what I tried. I had other problems, too, that were minor but added up to aggravation. In comparison, if I bring my PowerBook to the office, it connects without a problem to our Windows network. I’m not trying to provoke Linux fans, but it certainly doesn’t make me want to give up my Macintosh. I don’t think Apple needs to be too worried about Linux becoming a real threat on the desktop anytime soon. Its still too difficult to use for the average user.
Every time one of these little debates come up I reflect on the fact that I have been using Linux almost exclusively since ’99. What have I missed? Internet experience? Flash and Java have been part of the install since Netscape 4.X. Multimedia? XMMS has played MP3 and almost everything under the sun as long as I have been using it. XINE and MPlayer handle virtually everything I have encountered (I guess I did have to use WINE with WMP until the evil was conquered by the AVIfile team) Office formats and interoperability? I have always had great success with M$ Office documents and StarOffice from 5.1 to OpenOffice 1.1. As far as sending documents goes I have always: print to file -> ps2pdf -> sent a file that anyone can read with out distortions. (No stupid three line messages that are only a Word attachment full of goofy fonts that no one else has installed sent as an email by me) Graphics? GIMP, Blender and now Sodipodi and Scribus – in addition to OpenOffice Writer and Draw. Games? Linux really does have its fair share of time wasters. (But games are the main reason I still have a Windows ’98 partition) Adware and Spyware? Um . . . well . . . I guess you got me on that one. Viruses? Um . . . well dang!
What I have done with Linux: Compose papers, charts, presentations, graphics, web pages and data files for school. Create 3D art. Professional Web design. Create resumes and other business related papers and correspondences. Create flyers and other publications that have been printed in local print shops – Guess what – PostScript is a STANDARD in the print industry. Web application development – but that’s a ‘well duh!’ Video conferencing. Using programs on remote computers securely – another ‘Well DUH!’ Advanced database development. Charting and system design diagrams. Digital photography. Interacting with hand held devices. Video acquisition and processing. Creating data, multimedia and audio CDs.
OK. So now let me field this question. Honestly what have I missed? What are the great wonders that have taken place in the Windows software world that I am not aware of? I seem very ill informed.
Many companies are still tied to Novell 3.12 and try to tell them linux is ready and only lacking the SPX part in IPX/SPX…
Be part of the 97% majority with widest selection of hardware and enjoying computing at the optimal perforamce level, and propably contribute to the economy, not ripping off others hard work.
>>Most users don’t know these fine details, all they care is that for some sites, Mozilla/Opera just would not work.
1stly its been 3yrs since Moz failed to opperate a website that i have seen. and i know “regular users” whom ive introduced to using moz have no trouble at all.
2ndly you are right users dont need to know the gorry details. that is the job of webdevelopers who are very held back by the crapy IE browser. the Developers could make far better websites for those “regular users” if the so called advanced IE browser could do css better. a few things that could directly impact end users if ie did support standards:
css menus or better navigation elements
dynamic font loading
faster page rendering/loading
better effects and graphics with transparent png
more accessible to those who cant read small print
more accessible to those that are color blind (no styling is good sometimes)
better able to view in devices other than pc (cell, pda)
end users have more to gain by IE supporting standards.
hey Rayiner add cannot resize text when specified as pixels that pisses old people off to no end^^.
LOL your the best win-troll ever! Ive never seen a linux related article that you havent bashed or a windows related article you havent prasied.
“Office formats and interoperability? I have always had great success with M$ Office documents and StarOffice from 5.1 to OpenOffice 1.1.”
You must be dealing with very simple documents. I’ve found that virtually no fairly complex word documents or spreadsheets can be transfered correctly between Office XP and OpenOffice 1.1.
I opened a few MS Word order forms with tables, images and text boxes in OpenOffice, then re-saved in OpenOffice’s .Doc format. When I opened them in Office XP they were all badly mangled and unusable without editing. Many elements of the documents were out of alignment and page breaks were badly messed up. One was so badly messed up that it probably couldn’t have been salvaged, if I didn’t have the original I’d have had to have started it from scratch.
Overall I’m not impressed at all with OpenOffice’s MS Office comapatability, for me it’s pretty much useless.
I hope the Open Source takes its time to get to the so called desktop. It would be nice if more experiementing into user interaction took place before the common masses come pouring in. There are some great ideas in the desktop environments like KDE and Gnome but don’t leave out the window managers. I am very comfortable using Fluxbox even though it is not like Microsoft Windows. A distant relative of Fluxbox is Kahakai. Kahakai is based on Waimea but adds configuration scripting using languages like Python and Ruby. Then for people who like small tight window managers there is Ion, Hackedbox, and Matchbox. Matchbox can be used on PDAs.
Even Jeff Raskin is developing something for the Mac platform.
Microsoft can not make a GUI for everyone. They can only concentrate on a portion of the masses. Open Source can have a GUI for the masses and for just about evryone else.
The possibilities are there.
“1stly its been 3yrs since Moz failed to opperate a website that i have seen. and i know “regular users” whom ive introduced to using moz have no trouble at all.”
I use Opera 99% of the time, but I still encounter IE only websites quite often. I’ve been shopping around for an MP3 player today and I’ve hit several sites that wouldn’t work in Opera. Here’s an example: http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shopping/pages/buyiriver2mp3.ht… the online ordering and a lot of the links will not work.
Maybe Mozilla is more compatible than Opera, but personally I’d like the option of an industry standard browser so that I can be sure that every site is accessible.
Sadly, it looks like this is the situation until people start using a real document processing solution rather then the ‘intelligent typewriter’ format that is a conceptual appendix left over from the 19’th century. Well, I guess that’s why Crossover Office is important.
OK. So now let me field this question. Honestly what have I missed? What are the great wonders that have taken place in the Windows software world that I am not aware of? I seem very ill informed.
I’ll give you three right off hand – Dreamweaver, Acid, and Cooledit Pro.
Also, as someone else pointed out OO ain’t doing all MS Office files, especially ones with macros.
1stly its been 3yrs since Moz failed to opperate a website that i have seen. and i know “regular users” whom ive introduced to using moz have no trouble at all.
I’ll be your best friend if you can get videos to play using Mozilla (WinXP) on this site:
http://launch.yahoo.com/musicvideos/default.asp
Two things that still irk about desktop Linux:
– Fonts: Improved immensely in the past year or two, but I wish they’d find a way to make one tool for configuring fonts of dis-similar toolkits. Nothing pisses me off more than to have fonts looking half-way decent in KDE, then fire up a Gnome app and they look like sh*t.
– Package managerment: apt is alright, but still needs work. Having played with Xandros 2.0, hardly anything in their repository (even the unsupported one) was up-to-date. I’m sure there are apt sources somewhere with the ‘bleeding edge’ stuff, but it’s more than I care to deal with.
– Windows file sharing: Why can’t other distros do it like Xandros? Right click on a folder and share it … didn’t even have to configure anything for it to work.
Other than that, it seems pretty solid, sans a few missing apps, which I’m sure will be corrected overtime.
Yeah, assume this X server actually deliveres on time and there are actually apps taking advantage of it.
———
Unlike Longhorn’s OpenGL desktop, the FDO guys actually have you can download and try right now. And there are already Linux toolkits (like EVAS) that provide an OpenGL-accelerated canvas. I’d say, that in terms of tangible results, the Linux guys are ahead here.
OK, it is not, but it has task bar that KDE is trying to copy 😎
————
That’s all you’ve got? A taskbar? So KDE has a taskbar. That doesn’t mean its copying Windows. If you don’t like it, you can always use Kasbar, which is more of a NeXT-style dock.
That’s still a catch-up, even only on the ease-of-use front, isn’t it ?
——–
The original poster said that Linux is playing catch-up, and will thus always be behind Windows. That’s a silly statement, because Linux is behind in some areas, and ahead in others.
the most important part is the applications.
———-
Agreed.
Since DVD+-RW drives are hot, tell me a linux based app that could do limilar things as Adobe Encore DVD
———–
k3b does DVD burning quite well.
Also, the DV editing is hot thanks to advances in mini-DV cameras and please offer a linux based app that do similar things as Final Cut Pro
——–
Cinellera is quite excellent on the high end, and Main Actor is good in the mid-range. There is a distinct lack of something like iMovie, though.
(without compiling modules, etc)
———-
If we’re talking about DV (read: Firewire) then you don’t have to compile any modules. Most modern Linux distros support it out of the box. Hell, debian supports it out of box…
With every new distro and updated old one – – 10 things are fixed and 100 new broken features added.
Slackware ’96 is the most usable distro EVER; and anything after has not been worth the effort.
THE ENTIRE STALLMANITE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO GO INTO MAINTENANCE MODE ONLY FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_…
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&…
Wow, that’s pretty long
Unlike Longhorn’s OpenGL desktop, the FDO guys actually have you can download and try right now. And there are already Linux toolkits (like EVAS) that provide an OpenGL-accelerated canvas. I’d say, that in terms of tangible results, the Linux guys are ahead here.
Why would I want to download it if its not ready for use? If it was even halfway ready for use, I would hear zealots screaming about how it is the best thing since sliced bread. And you will probably never see an OpenGL Longhorn accelerated desktop – it is based off of Direct3D.
LOL your the best win-troll ever! Ive never seen a linux related article that you havent bashed or a windows related article you havent prasied.
Well, I don’t complain linux the kernel, Samba with the file sharing part, gcc the compiler, etc. OTOH, I can’t complain Windows here, as few here would ever care.
Just can’t read hypes without reaching the keyboard. However, as I see it, Windows is the main stream, despite its security holes, virus, etc and Linux is pretty much the third underdog on the desktop. So lin-zealots have to hype it to get attention, just like the second, third child in a family are more likely to take drastic actions.
The way I see it, when companies jump to write software for linux/gnu desktop and most IHVs offer linux drivers, then linux is ready for the desktop.
The original poster said that F.D.o might be a competitor to Longhorn if it comes out on time. My point is that F.D.o has code that you can download and try out *now*. You can chart their progress in real time. That’s a big difference from Microsoft — I don’t think anyone outside of MS has seen this new D3D-accelerated desktop. Add that to the fact that MS has a history of being late with Windows releases, and I’d wager good money F.D.o’s X server is out before Longhorn.
As for zealots pushing half-baked stuff, Windows users are in no position to speak. For half a decade, Microsoft pushed Win 9x, which clearly wasn’t ready for prime-time… I jumped ship to NT as soon as I could, but many people weren’t so lucky.
I have looked into EVAS and it is very impressive with a very clean and high level API to do very advanced effects using OpenGL based surfaces. And no one seems to have found any use for it. Perhaps the question that now has to be asked does this sort of thing have any real practical value? Is this just pointless eye candy and a way to make Windows even more bloated without any advancement in usability at all?
Longhorn has preview kit as well, in addition to documentation and tool kits for developers.
And look at the competition. Do you want to go download Redhat 5.0, or whatever version was current, and tell me how it compares? Geez, I still can’t evem plugin my flashcard on most distros, and have it show up on my desktop. Back then it was text-based installs, and edit /etc/resolv.conf for DNS, and write your /etc/rc.conf/ppp.conf whatever to set up dial up internet. Don’t forget to know the difference between PPP/CHAP , edit your XF86Config with vi, etc. So I would say Linux distributions were even more half-baked.
@Anonymous (pacbell)
The current Longhorn previews don’t include the new D3D desktop.
@Anonymous (attbi)
Linux distros didn’t claim to be desktop OSs for the masses back then.
@Omer Hickman
Unfortunately, most people don’t know about EVAS. Its considered a part of Enlightenment, and E17, as everyone knows, is not yet released. I have a feeling if you included something like that in the KDE or GNOME frameworks, you’d have lots of cool apps use it. Also, don’t forget that with the F.D.o X server, apps will use OpenGL for their general 2D drawing automatically.
Your point is very apples to oranges. One could make the same point about using Windows ’95 as a server OS. (I have seen this – SHUDDER!)
Today Linux and Windows are much, much more comparable in capabilities. (Now, when it comes to security, stability and Freedom . . . )
Yes, that’s the point. You said Windows was half-baked. Linux was much worse. The only other desktop choice was Mac, which at the time, could not even do true multitasking. So, Windows was the best of a pathetic offering.
As for zealots pushing half-baked stuff, Windows users are in no position to speak. For half a decade, Microsoft pushed Win 9x, which clearly wasn’t ready for prime-time… I jumped ship to NT as soon as I could, but many people weren’t so lucky.
Yeah, you didn’t play games then. Win9x were mostly for backward compatibility and memory print (32 bit code is 40% larger than 16 bit code). Win95 will actuall boot on 4MB and was doing really well on 16 MB before IE.
I’ve got a mini notebook with only 32 MB, so basically win9x is the only option. NT wouldn’t offer plug and play of PC cards without 3rd party add on and linux/gnu deskop would not run smoothly on this amount of memory.
For a commercial company like M$, they can’t ditch anything at will like in the OSS world.
Further, third party software companies are slow to move to NT/win2k/xp. They will develop software on NT but their products would likely not run well if the user doesn’t have administrator privilage and even now, many major apps would not work with Unicode path and file names.
In 1995, 32 MB of DRAM alone would cost $950, so don’t blame win9x for everything. OTOH, win9x brough these things along with it – easy to use dialup internet access, VPN client, AA fonts, IE/shell integration, drag and drop menu editing – that’s on 16 to 32 MB of memory.
How’s your linux distro/desktop doing on above mentioned areas and on how many MB of memory ???
Please try to keep the whole argument in your head at one time.
Your original comment:
“If it was even halfway ready for use, I would hear zealots screaming about how it is the best thing since sliced bread.”
My point was, that Microsoft is no better — they claimed that Win95 was a great desktop OS, even though it was, by your own admission, half-baked. Linux might have been equally half-baked at the time, but the Linux developers were not pushing it as a great desktop OS for the masses.
Ironically I have found that the fact that Linux has some spotty hardware support forces me to avoid the cheap crapy hardware with a driver written by some Joe Schome at a two bit company, protecting me from bad quality products. I can be reasonably sure that the Linux development community is not going to wast its time supporting inferior hardware.
I agree that linux is ready for the desktop. A few days ago I recieved the new Dell computer I ordered for my dad, and removed windows and installed linux. He only uses to browse the web, use email, and play a few card/board games and this way I don’t have to worry about doing virus scans and patching the os every other day. Things look good for linux on the desktop.
Why not just use Windows XP? It is the industry standard. I am the IT manager at a small bussiness and I already fired 2 employees who tried to sneak Linux into our organization.
It sounds like your management style is disturbingly fascist to me. You’re probably the one who should be fired.
Ironically I have found that the fact that Linux has some spotty hardware support forces me to avoid the cheap crapy hardware with a driver written by some Joe Schome at a two bit company, protecting me from bad quality products. I can be reasonably sure that the Linux development community is not going to wast its time supporting inferior hardware.
Sour grape 8-)))) You DO NOT have that choice.
DWL-520+ wireless card ? That is based on TI’s chip
How about NVIDIA video card with only 10% of features available to lin-zealots ?
The fact is lin-zealots have NO freedom at choosing hardware and they are enslaved by the so called “linux compatiblity hardware list”.
Hardware is one area that is not simply possible to copy the idea and get a half-baked copycat.
NVIDIA’s graphics cards have 100% functionality under Linux. Same speed, all the same OpenGL extensions, and all the features like TwinView and full-screen anti-aliasing. That’s to be expected, of course, the NVIDIA’s drivers share 90% of their code across Linux, Windows, and BSD. Part of the reason their suppor is so good is because NVIDIA makes a nice chunk of change from movie studios like ILM who use Linux/NVIDIA machines.
So you guys can honestly say that we should get beyond this bickering, and make Windows 100% on the Google statistics? Isn’t that what this has all been about: Google stats? That’s petty if you ask me
Linux is only as ready as one can agree upon. If you disagree that Linux is ready for the next guy, then is that really an opinion, or is it disrespect? Honestly, I don’t care what I sit down to work with as long as I’m happy with how the applications are performing.
I agree that Linux has come a long way, has a long way to go, and most importantly performs pleasingly well for my taste. It is ironic, then, that I seem to feel exactly the same about Windows XP (currently) in comparison.
Why not just use Windows XP? It is the industry standard. I am the IT manager at a small bussiness and I already fired 2 employees who tried to sneak Linux into our organization.
It sounds like your management style is disturbingly fascist to me. You’re probably the one who should be fired.
Well if this guy is the IT manager and set the policy that no linux is allowed, he has the right and reason to fire guys doing unauthorized things like sneak linux to their orgnization. Those lin-zealots could dispute the policy, but before any change to the policy, they can’t step outside the rules without facing the consequencies.
These days, more and more handsets come equiped with cameras, how ever, you can just take pictures anywhere, like in a company without authorization. If you do and the company take actions, don’t count on saying that’s fascist to save you from the trouble.
Half baked by your rose-tinted view of today. The best of what was available back then, was not half-baked. It was the best solution. You are implicitly comparing it to today’s standards. And speaking of Windows 95, the “half-baked” geriatric, decade old operating system – Linux and Win95 are neck and neck! Woohoo! GO LINUX!!
It sounds like your management style is disturbingly fascist to me. You’re probably the one who should be fired.
So I suppose you would approve of employees sneaking an entirely new operating system, without going through IT? How about if the secretary installs Windows 95 on her computer, and doesn’t patch it? No problem, right? Same problem with rogue, unsupported Linux installations.
even if you could get a full feature set out of NVIDIA video card, there are still other countless hardware that a lin-zealots could not use – scanners, printers, modems, etc.
What will the future hold for linux? Of course we don’t know for sure, and many different views have been touted before that haven’t come to pass, but where do you see linux in your future?
For me, I think i would be satisfied already if it weren’t for games. Games written in microsofts Directx make it harder to port the game to linux and other platforms since it’s not an open standard like OpenGL. WHy aren’t game developers using OpenGL more? i think its a serious question that could have some impact on the fate of linux for many. Many of you will think it’s not as big of a problem as other areas, but the way i see it is that there is no hope of having the problem fixed. Sure, some of you for instance may not have a particular program on linux that you use on MS, but more and better applications are being written everyday.
How can this be solved so that linux gamers are not forced to wait on a company like transgaming to try to run every directx game? Will linux gamers be doomed to the fate of always having to wait for months or more to get a hacked version that doesn’t run as well as it does on MS? ? Will we have to be satisified with what openGL games have to offer?(which might not be so bad if doom 3 is as good as i think it will be!!!)
In what other areas does linux still need improvement?
I think linux already has a great “cool factor” for more advanced desktop users that are willing to tweak their desktop environments. If you have looked around the web where people have posted screenshots of their desktop, you would see how cool linux can look. And the future for this is looking even better with things like the continuing of Gnome and KDE and with the new X server things will be supported like “window composting” .
Multimedia is looking better on linux with the advent of the gstreamer framework.
what other areas do you see that are improving or need improvment?
ANd lastly, how will linux ever gain a greater marketshare when most users don’t even know what an operating system is? When will linux be preloaded on a computer, side by side with a windows computer with the same hardware specs, and have a lower pricetag ? WHen will you walk into a computer store and see as much software for linux as windows? even if it is free people probaly won’t know it exists, and how can you put free software on store shelves for people to see?
All of these are geek toys, and do not mean anything to the average Windows user.
Actually, no. These are useful features that enhance anyone’s desktop use.
The average Windows user needs an internet browser as advanced as IE,
Konqueror is much more advanced that IE, and a lot more versatile. C’mon, IE is kinda lame, as far as browsers go.
a media player as advanced as WMP
MPlayer is much more advanced that WMP, starts up faster and plays more file formats.
digital rights management
Users don’t want that, media conglomerates do. Do you work for the RIAA?
advanced security and anti-terrorism features
Come on, you gotta be kidding me! Windows’ security record is abysmal…in fact, it is a matter of national security, as cyberterrorists exploiting a Windows flaw could take out a majority of computers (think Slammer, Blaster, etc.)
and the assurance that the world’s largest software company is looking out to make sure their computing experience is world-class.
The only thing Microsoft cares about is making money, and lately they’ve achieved this through force of monopoly rather than innovation – which is why the best computing experience can presently be had on OS X and the friendlier Linux distros.
Most users don’t know these fine details, all they care is that for some sites, Mozilla/Opera just would not work.
Well, there are very few of these sites left. Usually they’re some crappy personal web pages that no one visits anyway.
Meanwhile, Konqueror can masquerade as IE, therefore rendering pages that Mozilla won’t. They also all have tabs, pop-up blockers. And of course, with kparts, Konqueror becomes a swiss-army browser that can seamlessly show images (with the ability to zoom in/out and rotate), play movies and songs, etc – as well as act as a ftp client, file-manager-over-ssh client, etc.
Konqueror is very much ahead of IE in many areas. I’m not going to deprive myself of a great browser just because a handful of crappy sites don’t render like they should. And anyway, if I ever need to see these sites, I can use Internet Explorer in Linux with Crossover Office.
Konqueror is much more advanced that IE, and a lot more versatile. C’mon, IE is kinda lame, as far as browsers go.
Konqueror crashes all the time and it is slow in browing local files and directories.
MPlayer is much more advanced that WMP, starts up faster and plays more file formats
Except it is butt ugly.
digital rights management
Users don’t want that, media conglomerates do. Do you work for the RIAA?
Without that, you are not likely get more content.
Please ignore this person, they are a known troll. This person has multiple usernames, and tries to hind behind them. Archie, Archie Steel, Great Chthuhlhuhu, Arch Steel says Linux rules!, Anonymous, and now this one. Obviously this person has something to hide.
I’ve been shopping around for an MP3 player today and I’ve hit several sites that wouldn’t work in Opera. Here’s an example:
You know what I do when I can’t use my browser to shop at an online store? I send them an email telling them that I wanted to buy at their store but I won’t because they are forcing me to use a specific browser – just to make them realize that going the non-standard route will actually cost them customers. If I can tell them of another site that I can use and where I’ll buy instead, then I’ll do it to better drive the point home. I suggest you do the same…
How about NVIDIA video card with only 10% of features available to lin-zealots ?
This is completely untrue. My NVIDIA card has the same functionalities under Linux as it does under Windows.
You know someone’s out of arguments when he starts making up such false statements.
The funny thing about OSS software is that they like to show off screen shots and most of them have wall paper and xterm in translucent settings. Otherwise, the main thing will be butt ugly.
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/images/shot07.jpg
This is like in the restaurant business, if the meat or seafood are not up to the quality, then they will put in a lot of spicy sauces.
there are still other countless hardware that a lin-zealots could not use – scanners, printers, modems, etc
Actually there are less and less of these. The vast majority of mainstream hardware works under Linux. This includes most scanners, nearly all printers – and, yes, even the infamous winmodems.
You’re beginning to sound desperate.
Konqueror crashes all the time and it is slow in browing local files and directories.
Nope. It is very stable and quite fast to browse locally. Stop lying.
“MPlayer is much more advanced that WMP, starts up faster and plays more file formats”
Except it is butt ugly.
Nope. It is skinnable and some skins are very nice. Also, there are front-ends like Totem and KMplayer that make it integrate seamlessly with either Gnome or KDE. In fact, it fits a lot more with those desktop than the ugly WMP interface does with Windows.
Without [DRM], you are not likely get more content.
Utter B.S. Content providers may have to change their business model, but the argument that without DRM we’ll stop having music is ridiculous. Also, DRM infringes on fair use rights and puts unreasonable limits on academic freedom. What content providers must do is give away the virtual, but sell the material. Meditate on this, troll; you might get it eventually.
How about NVIDIA video card with only 10% of features available to lin-zealots ?
This is completely untrue. My NVIDIA card has the same functionalities under Linux as it does under Windows.
You know someone’s out of arguments when he starts making up such false statements.
Yeah, your card is the same, but there isn’t enough software under linux to use them – so it’s a waste of the technology – even under windows, which has a lot more games than under linux, they just barely scratched the surface on what those bleeding edge video cards have to offer.
In my original post, I also mentioned DWL-520+ wireless card and it is a no go for linux, is that true or not true ?
So zealots have
1) NO freedom in choosing hardware, and then
2) they don’t have software to adequately using those few that deemed linux compatible.
It is true that hollywood might use linux to render feature films, but did you do that at home ?
Please ignore this person, they are a known troll.
Nah, I’m not a troll, I’m a Windows and Linux user, as well as a Linux advocate. I attack FUD when I see it, and since I’m good at it, I make wintrolls angry.
This person has multiple usernames, and tries to hind behind them.
Me, hide? Nah, I just change usernames when the name-stealing troll – no doubt frustrated by my rapier-like it – begins to post anti-Linux messages under my name.
Archie, Archie Steel, Great Chthuhlhuhu, Arch Steel says Linux rules!, Anonymous, and now this one. Obviously this person has something to hide.
Well, since you’re the one posting Anonymously (which I don’t think I’ve done, personally, though I might have posted from my gf’s computer – and thus without cookies – by mistake), I’d say that you’re the one with something to hide!
The important thing is not the name I use, but the words I write. I guess you’re choosing to attack the former because you find yourself incapable of challenging the latter…
Oh, and it’s “Great Cthulhu” – don’t make me utter the dreaded curse of Azathoth, now…
there are still other countless hardware that a lin-zealots could not use – scanners, printers, modems, etc
Actually there are less and less of these. The vast majority of mainstream hardware works under Linux. This includes most scanners, nearly all printers – and, yes, even the infamous winmodems.
vast majority != ALL
nearly all != ALL
most != ALL
Also remember, “works” is not the same as works well.
Just look at those CUPS driver description and you know you will see that many of those so called “neraly all” printers would not work as well as driven by a windows driver.
You’re beginning to sound desperate
For what ? To see you are getting your money’s worth under linux ? That’s suppose to be the case.
Yeah, your card is the same, but there isn’t enough software under linux to use them – so it’s a waste of the technology – even under windows, which has a lot more games than under linux, they just barely scratched the surface on what those bleeding edge video cards have to offer.
Ridiculous. I’d consider that playing Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter-Strike, Warcraft III, Max Payne and Neverwinter Nights under Linux with my NVIDIA card counts as good use of that peripheral. And if you think that recent and upcoming games (such as Doom 3, which will run native under Linux) only “scratch the surface” of what a NVIDIA card can do, then you don’t know much about 3D gaming in the first place.
I know you’re trying to wriggle out of this one, having been proved wrong, but wouldn’t it be more simple just to admit that don’t know what you’re talking about?
In my original post, I also mentioned DWL-520+ wireless card and it is a no go for linux, is that true or not true ?
Is that the only wireless card available? Then who cares? No, really, who cares? Whenever I want to buy a peripheral for my Linux system, I always check to see if it’s supported beforehand. Usually it is, but for the rare cases where it isn’t, there’s always an alternative that is.
1) NO freedom in choosing hardware
Wrong. There’s lots of choice – peripherals that don’t work with Linux are uncommon, and becoming rarer every day.
2) they don’t have software to adequately using those few that deemed linux compatible.
Wrong – there’s software to use with most PC peripherals out there.
It is true that hollywood might use linux to render feature films, but did you do that at home ?
You could, with enough money to buy a Maya license and a render farm. But that’s beside the point: can you render feature films at home with Windows?
You’re grasping at straws.
vast majority != ALL
nearly all != ALL
most != ALL
vast majority = nearly all = most = good enough
Also remember, “works” is not the same as works well.
Just look at those CUPS driver description and you know you will see that many of those so called “neraly all” printers would not work as well as driven by a windows driver.
Hey, my printer works flawlessly (with Linux and Windows, thanks to Samba), that’s all I care about!
“You’re beginning to sound desperate”
For what ?
You’re sounding desperate because you have to resort to exaggerations, half-truths and outright lies to make your point. That’s sad.
To see you are getting your money’s worth under linux ?
I am, and much more, thank you.
Enough with the FUD already.
Konqueror crashes all the time and it is slow in browing local files and directories.
Nope. It is very stable and quite fast to browse locally. Stop lying.
You are lying, if the KDE session is crashed, you might not even know what is the cause. Quite fast is adequate, which means slow 😎
“MPlayer is much more advanced that WMP, starts up faster and plays more file formats”
Except it is butt ugly.
Nope. It is skinnable and some skins are very nice. Also,
Skinnable doesn’t prevent Mplayer from being butt ugly
Without [DRM], you are not likely get more content.
Utter B.S. Content providers may have to change their business model, but the argument that without DRM we’ll stop having music is ridiculous. Also, DRM infringes on fair use rights and puts unreasonable limits on academic freedom. What content providers must do is give away the virtual, but sell the material. Meditate on this, troll; you might get it eventually.
You are a moron if you can’t give an example to suggest otherwise 😎 Every body could dream that money would grow on trees in their backyard 😎
If you pay to watch TV on cable/satellite system or pay to get internet access, you would eventually get use to DRM in the future and OSS will have to catch on in this area. It is sad but it will be the trend when hardware based solution comes into play.
@Anonymous (attbi)
Win95 was a POS from the day it came out. OS/2 had actual memory protection, while Win95 left large holes for DOS compatibility. OS/2 had actual preemptive multitasking, while Win95 cooperative multitasked all 16-bit code (even 32-bit processes running 16-bit code like many of the OS services). And OS/2’s GUI was quite elegant. There was also the NeXT machines, and of course, the Mac. All Win95 was the best at was software compatibility.
@Anonymous (pacbell)
even if you could get a full feature set out of NVIDIA video card
——-
Nice back-peddling. What you meant to say was, “Okay fine, you *can* get a full feature set out of NVIDIA cards on Linux.”
scanners
——-
Ever take a look at SANE’s supported hardware list?
http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
Its huge! My brother’s Epson 610 is supported perfectly.
printers
——–
Linux supports all Postscript and PCL printers (that means any high-quality laser printer). It also supports most brand-name printers. I’ve got three printers in this room (an Epson Stylus C60, a Lexmark Z45, and a Canon S550) and all are supported in Linux. My roommate printed for Linux for several weeks when the S550 refused to print from Windows. My i850 at home is supported (albiet with $25 TurboPrint drivers). My MFC4350 at home is also supported. As is the HP DeskJet 855C that we bought close to a decade ago! Okay, that’s very sngle printer I’ve ever used. Do you have a specific one in mind that doesn’t work???
modems
——-
Oh c’mon. Linux has always supported all hardware modems, and now even supports the WinModem in my Inspiron 8200.
Other hardware: My Wingman Rumblepad is supported, as is my roommate’s MS Sidewinder Precision Pro. Indeed, pretty much any USB game device will work, thanks to the HID spec. Both USB web cams I’ve ever owned (my 3Com HomeConnect at home, and my Logitech QuickCam here) are also supported. So is my iPod. My Casseopia works, as does my dad’s iPaq. The Sony Clie he lost in Afghanistan is also supported!
In fact, the only hardware I’ve never been able to get working in Linux is my (now my brother’s
Sony MiniDisc player. There are gaps in Linux’s hardware support, but on the whole, us Lin-zealots are better off than even Mac users with respect to hardware support. If you are just the least bit careful before buying, you should have no problem with hardware support. Even if you aren’t, as long as you buy name-brand, you probably won’t have problems anywa.
You are lying, if the KDE session is crashed, you might not even know what is the cause. Quite fast is adequate, which means slow 😎
——–
You’re really full of crap. KDE doesn’t just crash as a whole. Specific parts might crash (like the panel, konqueror, etc), but I can’t remember the last time KDE as a whole crashed. And Konqueror is neither unstable nor slow. I’m using Konqueror 3.2-beta2, and its at least as stable as explorer.exe in WinXP. Its also fast enough (which is *not* the same as slow). Unless you’re doing something stupid like browsing /usr/bin (1356 items on my machine, can you even find a Windows machine with that many files in a dir?) its not the bottleneck, the user is. Can you give a specific example of a situation where Konqueror has been too slow for you?
Skinnable doesn’t prevent Mplayer from being butt ugly
——–
So *all* the skins are ugly? As well as Totem, KMplayer, KPlayer, and Kaffiene? Are you high???
You are lying,
I’m not. You are.
if the KDE session is crashed, you might not even know what is the cause.
Konqueror is very stable, and has never crashed my KDE session. It’s also easier in general to figure out a crash while using KDE then when using Windows.
Quite fast is adequate, which means slow 😎
No, “quite fast” means fast, not slow. The expression “quite” in this context is a superlative. Come on, english is my second language and even I know that!
Skinnable doesn’t prevent Mplayer from being butt ugly
Well, if you put a nice skin on it, then by definition it wouldn’t be ugly anymore. Also, as I’ve said (which, being out of arguments, you chose to ignore) you can use front-ends to make it fit with your desktop.
You are a moron if you can’t give an example to suggest otherwise 😎
…says an anonymous troll on a web forum. Yeah, sure, whatever. Expose the troll, and he’ll resort to personal attacks. How typical.
In any case, you still haven’t countered my initial argument, which was that users don’t want DRM, content providers do. In other words, you admit that your original argument was wrong, since you haven’t contested my argument.
I’ve seen you in better trolling shape. Perhaps you should call it a night. I know I will, it’s 3:37 AM here.
Yes, its quite clear that Linux has already overtaken Windows 95. Clearly, Linux is better than Windows 95, and Windows XP is next.
I’m sorry to say but this is not true. While the Win95 market share dropped from 6% in January 2002 to 3% in Januar 2003 and 1% in October/November, Linux didn’t improve its share but stayed constantly at 1%.
Also, Win98 lost market share from 40% to 30% in the last twelve months. Also, Win2000 and NT lost market share. If one adds their makets shares, they dropped from their top 27 % in July/August 2002 to 22% in Oct./Nov. with 3% points lost in the last four month!
WinXP was the only OS which gained market shared – it roughly double it in the last year from 23% in November 2002 to 42% in Nov/Oct. 2003.
There seems to be also a very slight decrease for the Mac: Dropping from 4% in 2002 to 3% in 2003. All numbers are used from the google statistics.
Sorry, but Linux World Domination ™ may still take a while.
Ridiculous. I’d consider that playing Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter-Strike, Warcraft III, Max Payne and Neverwinter Nights under Linux with my NVIDIA card counts …
Could be counted by one hand is not too many, huh ?
In my original post, I also mentioned DWL-520+ wireless card and it is a no go for linux, is that true or not true ?
Is that the only wireless card available? Then who cares? No, really, who cares? Whenever I want to buy a peripheral for my Linux system, I always check to see if it’s supported beforehand. Usually it is, but for the rare cases where it isn’t, there’s always an alternative that is.
You DO NOT have the freedom to not check the list before hand. What if the card is the only one that’s on sale ?
You’re sounding desperate because you have to resort to exaggerations, half-truths and outright lies to make your point. That’s sad.
To see you are getting your money’s worth under linux ?
I am, and much more, thank you.
You are brain washed and can’t admit that you lin zealots DO NOT have the freedom to no check the “list” and have fewer selection of usable hardware.
half-truth is still truth. If say Windows users have 500 printers to choose from and among them one will not work with linux – then it can be said that linux users have fewer choices in this case. You might not care the difference between 500 and 499, however 499 choices are still representing one fewer choice than the 500 available to windows users.
You lin-zealots would not admit the truth because it sounds so aweful when choices and freedom mean so much to you lin-zealots so you would rather choose “who care”, “there are alternatives” as the answer.
“You DO NOT have the freedom to not check the list before hand.”
——-
Okay. You don’t not have the freedom to not check the list before hand. However, that’s quite a bit aways from your original statement, which was that Linux users have NO freedom when choosing hardware.
As for 500 vs 499 printers supported — I’ll take that. So Linux supports 499 printers for every 500 supported by Windows. Sounds like good numbers to me
Konqueror is very stable, and has never crashed my KDE session. It’s also easier in general to figure out a crash while using KDE then when using Windows.
Why are you so sure if it never crashed on you ?
Is it exaggeration or outright lying ?
“In my original post, I also mentioned DWL-520+ wireless card and it is a no go for linux, is that true or not true ? ”
http://acx100.sourceforge.net/index.html
Enjoy …
btw, excellent trolling!
[Games] Could be counted by one hand is not too many, huh ?
Well, they are quite popular games – and there’s tons more than can be played native or with WineX. Doesn’t really matter, though, because console gaming’s where it’s at. I know, I work in the video game industry, I see the numbers. That’s where the best games are, exception made of First-Person Shooters and Real-Time Strategy games (i.e. all games that require a keyboard and mouse for optimum control). I’ve got a PS2 and an Xbox for games, and I use my Linux PC for more serious stuff (and a little gaming as well).
Right now, consoles rule the video game world. This isn’t just my opinion but a definite trend in the industry.
You DO NOT have the freedom to not check the list before hand. What if the card is the only one that’s on sale ?
I DO have the freedom to check the list. I always check it before buying peripherals – I mean, these sometimes cost a lot of money, I don’t go and buy them on impulse. Anyway, your example is highly hypothetical – I’ve never had any problem finding affordable Linux-compatible computer equipment.
You are brain washed and can’t admit that you lin zealots DO NOT have the freedom to no check the “list”
Who’s preventing me from checking the list? No one. Therefore I am free to check it. You’re not making any sense.
however 499 choices are still representing one fewer choice than the 500 available to windows users.
Again, you’re grasping at straws. My printer (Samsung ML-1210) works great.
Someone makes equipment that doesn’t work with Linux? Too bad for them, they’ve lost a sale!
Also, I am not a zealot. I use both OSes everyday (which is more than you can say, for sure!) and actually have nothing against Windows. There is one zealot here, and it’s you: you keep attacking Linux in every post, your bias is obvious. Meanwhile, I use both OSes and know both of them very well.
Keep on trollin’, I’m going to bed (for real this time).
Linux desktop and server use will keep growing and growing if you like it or not
I happily use both Lin and Win.
Why are you so sure if it never crashed on you ? Is it exaggeration or outright lying ?
Nope, it’s the truth. Konqueror has never crashed my KDE session. It has crashed before, but overall I find it more stable than IE on Win2K – which makes me say that it is very stable.
As Rayiner stated before, a KDE app crashing will not bring down the system with it.
(Yeah, I know I was supposed to go to bed, but you had already posted this when I submitted my other comment.)
You DO NOT have the freedom to not check the list before hand.”
——-
Okay. You don’t not have the freedom to not check the list before hand. However, that’s quite a bit aways from your original statement, which was that Linux users have NO freedom when choosing hardware.
The same thing as long as freedom is concerned. Linux users DO NOT enjoy the same level of freedom as windows users do.
As for 500 vs 499 printers supported — I’ll take that. So Linux supports 499 printers for every 500 supported by Windows. Sounds like good numbers to me
So it is a good number that you will take, but still represents fewer selections and less freedom than windows users, right ?
And now you’ve started the logical fallacies. Less freedom != no freedom. In the United States, I do not have the freedom to kill people. I have less freedom than I would in the state of nature. Does that mean I have no freedom???
Linux users DO NOT enjoy the same level of freedom as windows users do.
Really? Can I look at the Windows source code? Can I modify it? Can I recompile my kernel if I want? Can I switch my entire OS from English to French without having to buy another copy? Can I choose to customize the windows borders, widget style, etc. without having to get a third-party app? Can I freely redistribute Windows Live CDs?
Linux users enjoy a much higher level of freedom than Windows users ever will.
As for the “499 vs. 500” non-issue, serious people don’t bother with arguments based on statistical noise. Only trolls who refuse to accept that they’ve been proven wrong.
That is the same as
You DO NOT have the freedom to NOT check “the list”.
lin-zealots just could not withstand standing in a position that’s set them further apart from freedom than windows users .
Really? Can I look at the Windows source code? Can I modify it? Can I recompile my kernel if I want? Can I switch my entire OS from English to French without having to buy another copy? Can I choose to customize the windows borders, widget style, etc. without having to get a third-party app? Can I freely redistribute Windows Live CDs?
I hate to break it to you, but focusing on useless features like this is why Linux is at the bottom of the pit with Windows 95. Hardly anyone cares, really. Yippee, recompiling a kernel. Wonder why I never felf the need to do that.
So you do agree that Windows users have less freedom than Linux users, then.
They’re useless to you, but who are you to decide what degree of freedom others need? FYI, points #4 and #6 are quite important to me. I can’t switch my entire OS from English to French without having to buy another copy (which is important in a bilingual home) and using freely redistributable LiveCDs is a good way to test hardware, to rescue crashed computers and to make others discover Linux.
Not to mention that this is on-topic, since the article was about Knoppix.
I don’t have these freedoms under Windows, ergo I have less freedom than in Linux. Once again you are proved wrong. And I’m still awake.
But you can’t silence the painful truth.
I can’t switch my entire OS from English to French
Here I mean with Windows, of course. With Linux, I can have the language configured for each individual user.
Linux users DO NOT enjoy the same level of freedom as windows users do.
Really? Can I look at the Windows source code? …
You are taking the sentence out of context. I am talking about hardware selection.
Linux users enjoy a much higher level of freedom than Windows users ever will.
That’s VIRTUAL freedom, since you can do anything but using a hardware without a linux driver – applications and hardware support are the REAL MEAT.
As for the “499 vs. 500” non-issue, serious people don’t bother with arguments based on statistical noise. Only trolls who refuse to accept that they’ve been proven wrong.
You do not have the freedom here and you have to mention noise in front of the FACT that 499 is fewer than 500.
lin-zealots will prove 499 is NOT fewer than 500 in defending their perseived freedom – so why not continue and prove 1% after removing statistical noise is actually more than the 97% share of windows desktop 😎