Usman Latif writes: “Linux has made few inroads on the desktop. Linux enthusiasts have plenty of excuses but do not seem to understand where they need to focus in order to make Linux a success on the desktop. My article ‘The Future of Linux on the Desktop‘ is an attempt to point out markets where Linux can really make a difference.”
The Future of Linux on the Desktop
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Under my Debian 3 (been using Linux at home since 2-3 years now) I still wonder if I can run Gnome 2.4 on it, tried but gave up. […] My time is too precious to fight with my PC each time I want to install the slightest soft. that has more one or 2 dependencies and that’s too much hassle.
Err…Gnome isn’t the “slightest soft” – it’s a complete Desktop Environment! In any case, if you want “ease of use”, Debian isn’t necessarily the best distro for you.
On this side Linus [sic] is still far way from Windows !!!
Well, did you ever try to install a completely new (and free) Desktop Environment for Windows? When you can do that, then perhaps your comparison will be fair.
I do agree that Gnome is a bit harder to install than KDE, who named all of their packages consistently: kdebase, kdelibs, etc.
And, by the way, there isn’t “one different way to configure your system for every distro.” That’s just being dishonest. Differences are nearly always only superficial: learning to use one Linux system makes it easy to use another Linux system. I know I’ve never had any problems going from RedHat to Debian to Mandrake, etc.
Again, stop thinking that computer users are dumb. That’s a very elitist attitude, not to mention completely unfounded, except for the few percent who try to wash their keyboard by soaking them in water, or think the mouse is a foot pedal (my favorite).
Stop thinking that computer users are idiots who need to be spoon-fed. That’s the greatest miscalculation one can make.
And still people call in about the coffee holder being broken on their computer talking about the CD rom…
And still people call in about the coffee holder being broken on their computer talking about the CD rom…
Of course stuff like this happens. Here’s a funny list:
http://www.sloppynoodle.com/php/viewpaper.php?paperid=367
I can certainly believe that most of those are true and not urban legends. Some people don’t understand computers. But overall it is represents a very small statistical minority – and one that is decreasing over time as well.
By and large, computer users are not idiots (or “mentally retarded”, the new PC term for people whose IQ is between 26 and 50). Therefore, this doesn’t make for a strong argument in determining wherever Linux is ready for the desktop.
I’m not saying that mentally-challenge people shouldn’t have access to computers – but one can make simpler interfaces in either (and in fact virtually all) OSes – just that considering computer users in general as idiots is in my view a gross mistake.
Please do not apply you and your personal likes to e’vryone. Personally I ve used Linux as both desktop and server around 5 years but I still think of problems whether Linux will solve or not:
1. computer users dont care to handle dependencies. This means if Linux want to be a desktop, at least no problem happens in any installation phase of software
2. Linux desktop only becomes popular when kids or elderly or housekeepers buy CD from market and put in CD tray, it automates a pop up and with few clicks they got a program to enjoy.
3. Prevent piracy disaster in third countries. Who else care of Linux as an OSS and free download to use in a while they can easy do a copy of Windows and install it to their GrandDad/Mum to play games and check emails
That is just a point a mine.
with me, slackware is good enough to cover as a desktop
Those are all good points, and the encouraging thing is that these issues are being solved:
1. computer users dont care to handle dependencies. This means if Linux want to be a desktop, at least no problem happens in any installation phase of software
Dependency issues are not a problem as long as your distro or Desktop has an advanced package front-end (Mandrake, Ximan Desktop, Lindows are good examples). Of course, when you want to install the latest and greatest, you might need to upgrade lots of packages at once. People who run experimental Linux distros (such as Mandrake Cooker) and then complain that Linux is unstable are just being dishonest – or they don’t understand what experimental distros are.
If you keep to your official distro software and updates (and choose one that isn’t too bleeding edge…) then you have much dependency issues. I haven’t had one in months on my Mandrake 9.2 system (and not one in weeks on my Mandrake Cooker one).
2. Linux desktop only becomes popular when kids or elderly or housekeepers buy CD from market and put in CD tray, it automates a pop up and with few clicks they got a program to enjoy.
Actually, kids like to download stuff from the Internet. They’re born in this. This is also true of Windows software, by the way.
Look at it this way: which is more practical for me? Going out, get in my car, go to the Future Shop or whatever, go through the aisles, find a software box and carry it around (or many boxes, if I need more than one piece of software), stand in line if it’s busy, buy the box, get back home, open it, put in into the tray, and so on…
Or this: use a packager front-end select the app and press install – or download the program from a vendor’s web site (and order a boxed set only if I want to).
I don’t know about you, but the second one seems better for me. Even commercial software companies prefer this (boxes are expensive). In fact, the console game industry has been exploring various schemes to make people download games in addition to having them in the stores.
I do think that boxed sets can be useful and we should keep them (if only to give out as gifts). But I don’t think this is a real issue here.
3. Prevent piracy disaster in third countries. Who else care of Linux as an OSS and free download to use in a while they can easy do a copy of Windows and install it to their GrandDad/Mum to play games and check emails
I agree with this – as an OSS user and enthusiast, I am against software piracy. I think people should pay a fair price for copies of commercial apps. Again, efforts by countries such as China and India to combat piracy (a challenging fight indeed) should be encouraged by all.
ChocolateCheeseCake: you hit the nail on the head. Bravo!
Bottom line: Linux needs to mature. Developers need to step back and think what Joe and Jane Average want – not what they want. Linux needs to make itself easier to use, less technical and less intimidating. And it needs decent applications, the calibre of VS.Net, Photoshop and major business packages. Linux is in a Catch-22 situation: without apps it can’t grow. Without growth, there’s no apps.
Its strange, I have received the anti-ChocolateCheeseCake backlash.
Btw, I USED Linux for 7-8 years full time as a desktop the moved to FreeBSD then purchased an eMac and installed MacOS 10.3.2. IMHO, FreeBSD was the best experience I had, the only thing I found lacking was native application availability from big name vendors.
The one aspect I do like about the FreeBSD community is although there is the Microsoft bash, which everyone loves, they can also accept when there is a superior solution.
Just go into any FreeBSD irc channel and the frankness of, “I run FreeBSD for my server and desktop, however, if you’re a newbie to computers and operating systems it would be best to stick with Windows XP until you’re familar with the concepts”. That is the type of attitude that should be taken, not this anti-Microsoft based on some religious zealotry we see that spreads through the Linux community like cancer.
Just look at KDE and GNOME split all over a library! is this the type of approach that will win users? when debates are over trivial matters? My list of gripes get longer and longer and unfortunately anyone who does bring up valid concerns are simply shouted down or dismissed as “agents of Microsoft”.
Mark my words, Linux will NEVER see the desktop until the OSS community STOP bickering and start working together.
Just look at Galeon, if these developers had half a brain they would conceed that Epiphany has a better focus, they would kill of their project, merge the good features into the main Epiphany tree and join the development effort.
Same goes for the numerous other projects which mearly exist not out of “technical superiority” but because of stupid religous differences or simply because the leader of one team things that the leader of another team is a wanker.
[/i]Its strange, I have received the anti-ChocolateCheeseCake backlash.[/i]
SHOULD BE:
Its strange, I haven’t received the anti-ChocolateCheeseCake backlash.
Perfect attitude!
“Lots of Linux proponents like to harp on about configurability: “I feel more free” or some such. The average user tends to want to change the colours and maybe the fonts or the mouse pointers. They don’t want to be confronted with a hideous monstrosity like KDE’s control centre with dozens of categories of options or with application preferences in inconsistent places. Why do some KDE applications have half a dozen menu items for configuring stuff? Why does Konqueror have such a huge context menu and such a large menu structure? Most average users are never going to use half of that stuff, so why is it there? Leave it in, sure, but allow it to be turned off (and on again).”
I totally agree with what you say about KDE, last time I tried it I soon found out that it was not for me. But configurability and choice goes far deeper than KDE. After testing a few window managers I found out that Fluxbox was the perfect choice for me – simple, fast and configurable to meet my expectations. To me this is freedom: if I don’t like KDE I can choose to configure my system to use another desktop that suits me better.
And the same points that you make against KDE can surely be made against windows. When my daughter, an average user, bought a laptop that came with WinXP she was half-mad the first days before she had found out and disabled most of the “enhanced user experience” things. I have no idea where she has picked up such foul language 🙂
“The average user is non technical, does not want things to be too complicated and just wants to get on and use their computer. A computer is only a tool. It should cater to the lowest common denominator (I don’t mean that in a negative way) – it should make itself usable by the widest possible constituency – not just geeks.”
Well, you should have heard my old dad (a longtime win95 and win98 user) when he bought his new shiny WinXP computer. I had explained that he shouldn’t run it as administrator in day to day use but create a regular user account…
“My 76 year old grandfather is thinking of getting a PC so he can surf the Internet and buy books from Amazon. If he does decide to, I’m never going to recommend Linux. I couldn’t for one moment imagine him launching Konsole and typing in an apt-get command or doing an emerge. People want things to work. They don’t want to mess around installing strangely-named packages when they could be being productive. Technical things intimidate many people. Command lines are mysterious things that many people don’t like.”
Assuming that you are going to help your grandfather with the installation, I think he is a perfect candidate for a FreeBSD(or Linux)/Gnome desktop, really. He would be less likely to mess up the OS that way, and Gnome hasn’t as many configuration options as KDE. When he needs to update or install programs you can easily do this for him remotely using ssh (at least with FreeBSD and ports). Probably less work for you in the long run 🙂
“Oh, and for the person claiming he needs 4 media players, actually, you just need one – Media Player Classic: http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/. You can play Real, Quicktime, XVid and so on. It’s not difficult to find codecs, you know. DivX, XVid, RealAlt, QuickTimeAlt and you’re done. I bet they’re slightly better than their Linux counterparts as well.”
I have never tried Media Player Classic. What I know is that “windows” people often get surprised when Mplayer on FreeBSD just plays multimedia files that they have been unable to play using mediaplayer on windows. I’ll recommend Media Player Classic next time!
From my experience I doubt that the windows codecs are generally any better, but I may be wrong since I haven’t made any thorough comparison.
“Bottom line: Linux needs to mature. Developers need to step back and think what Joe and Jane Average want – not what they want.”
If we restrict us to developers of desktops and related applications and agree that we want users to migrate from windows, shure. It would be nice to have an alternative that is as easy(?) as windows for people wanting that. As long as it is an alternative.
Just as long as we remember that the reason why many of us appreciate *BSD and Linux is the exact same reason that “Joe and Jane Average” find it intimidating and “technical”. We love the flexibility, configurability and power. As a matter of fact, many of us like the problems we encounter and see them as an opportunity to learn.
“Linux needs to make itself easier to use, less technical and less intimidating. And it needs decent applications, the calibre of VS.Net, Photoshop and major business packages. Linux is in a Catch-22 situation: without apps it can’t grow. Without growth, there’s no apps.
Oh, and certain Linux fans need to lighten up. There’s nothing like going to Slashdot or reading some of the more, err, wild posts on OSNews to turn people off. I happen to like Linux (to an extent).”
That applies to some “windows” fans also. Not that I disagree with you of course. I don’t understand what all the fuzz is about. I can see good points in windows, I have used it for years at work without to many problems. I don’t use FreeBSD because I hate windows, but just because FreeBSD is so much better both as an OS and as a desktop, ahum, for me that is 🙂
“It just needs to mature. It needs direction. Microsoft has direction: Longhorn. Longhorn looks amazing (XAML, WinFS, Avalon, Aero, etc, etc). But desktop Linux – where is it going, exactly?”
Well I wouldn’t agree about Longhorn, but each to his own.
KDE Control Center – complicated? Give me a break, I find it a model of clarity, and something like this should have been in Windows a long time ago. Its easy to find, and easy to use.
Obviously you are talking about yourself, when you call Linux by the subject line of RE:Not mature enough (yet).
However Dion I am going to take a look at Fluxbox see what you are talking about.
I agree over the Grandfather too, why on earth should a 76-year find Linux difficult, if it is set-up for him as you suggest, it would be a much better bet than windows, any day of the week.
Anyway what the f. has age got to do with computer useage?
Here is a great link. Start teaching kids how to use computers and software, not how to monkey about with games and all the rest of the useless stuff.
This way is the intelligent way to make sure Linux becomes the Desktop of choice.
http://www.thejournal.com/magazine/vault/A4499B.cfm
This way is the intelligent way to make sure Linux becomes the Desktop of choice.
So another monopoly aye? How about diversity?
No not another monopoly! How could it be with so many different distributions plus of course the wider unix world and the fact that programmers worldwide can see/modify.
Stop thinking that computer users are idiots who need to be spoon-fed. That’s the greatest miscalculation one can make.
And still people call in about the coffee holder being broken on their computer talking about the CD rom…
So true.
I work as hotliner as a sidejob for a French FAI (www.free.fr), and I can tell that most of people aren’t techie nor expert. For instance we provide a modem that can be plugged whether through USB or Ethernet, the installation is made through an automatic script/InstallShield on Windows and still people call us to have help. And still people wonder what a “network card” can be, when I tell them how to use the modem through ethernet….
When I make them open a MS-DOS command line, they are almost scared they are afraid of “breaking” something.
We provide support on Windows, Mac OS 9/X series, and “of course” Linux is not supported. Why cause simply it’s not unified. Remember that Linux is just a _kernel_. It’s wonderful on the server side, or when you develop no one can deny that. I have made efforts myself to use it on the desktop side, but well there was always something painful to tweak on my Debian :
– OK I want to install my Xserver, I have to type
“apt-get install x-window-system-core”
he asks me about 6 questions
then ask me what my keybord is i have to choose “xfree86”
select a 105 keystroke one
choose “fr”
chosse a flavor of the keybord which I don’t have any idea of what this option can be
etc …
Then comes the display configuration.
Chossing between the modules dri, glx, Glcore
enter the modelines of my display damn why can’t he detect for me my dissplay frequencey ? If I choose a bad value will my display be damaged, should I choose lower values even though I could probably reach high ones …
Then configure your mouse. Then cross your fingers and pary to see it wirk. Well we are in 2004 and you still have to configure your mouse manually (at least on Debian which ain’t the less supported disto) come on guys, it must be a joke a Windows-user guy would laugh at us proudly claiming that it’s automatic on Windows.
Just having a graphic display on Linux is a pain in the ass. Oh sure X is wonderful to make some export display on the network, but do I really care of that feature to use it on my single PC at home ?
If i want to run my network card, I have to make lspci to see if it’s recognized then load it in the kernel, how many people could do that ? Or just have heard of lspci command if you think of them are newbies ?
Some swear by the ease of use of command line, and X must only be used to open several xterms and everything must be done though it such as burning Cds where you just have to type :
cdrecord dev=0,0,0 speed=4 -multi -V file.iso
Really easy, when you have read the complete 50 pages of man pages of that command.
Most people say that there aren’t much differences between 2 Linux distros true for command lines like ls cp etc …
But really when it comes to install hardware, software they each have their way to deal with the problem so you have to re-learn again how to do it.
When you install xmms on Debian, you can’t listen to music unless you type “adduser myname audio”, well most people couldn’t think of such a thing, they will conclude that sound doesn’t work on theit Linux box and they will switch back to Windows.
Really I have made efforts to try to use Linux at home, but I gave up, I always do more adminsitration tasks than the _real_ tasks, desktop is a tool to improve your productivity not to make you waste time.
One other matter is the inconstancy between application, just for the toolkits you have QT,GTK,and TCL/TK. So you donwload aMSN to chat with your friends on MSN, you are under a superb Gnome 2.4 and when you try to set the preference of aMSN you see horrible boxes written in TCL/TK…
No one could claim I am wrong or that I don’t have the right view on this issue etc… cause simply it was it was my experience of Linux on desktop.
Yep. no one can criticise you because of your own “experience” with Linux.
I can only say my attempt to install Debian ended in disasters, confusion and purchase of Knoppix CD. This got me Debian installed.
Neverthless, I tried SuSE 8.0 which was a disaster through my own lack of Linux knoweldge. Now I have 8.2 SuSE and it is my only Desktop. It just works, and well in both shell/gui and hardware recognition. That is my experience.
After reading some of the posts here I have to clarify a misconception that people usually have: Linux/*BSD people don’t want to take over the world! I don’t care if 99,9 % of the world’s desktops run windows. Linux/*BSD serve my needs both as desktop and server. If other people like windows, then stick to it! I have only one concern: the lack of support from hardware vendors. If they don’t write Linux drivers then Linux will not be able to run on newer machines, at least taking full advantage of it!
Here’s my €0,02.
….about what is at stake for windows users migration. I think he is also correct to say that developping countries are the main target for Linux right now. It seems that most of what’s happening is happening in Asia.
But although I agree that complete computer newbies are theoretically a good target, these guys are most likely to listen to their friends, who are probably running windows.
Most of Windows users trying MacOs or Linux are actually pretty fluent with computers, or at least pretty curious so it is crucial that these guys have in mind that Windows is not the only solution, and that there are distros out there that won’t discourage them.
Linux distros should all team-up, make Knoppix top notch (not much work) at hardware compatibility and distribute it in computer magazines as a common endeavour, with an introduction to each distro in an advertising article. They should do that every 6 months.
The knoppix should have a special hardware feedback applet that would ask user who want to, to tick which bits work for them and mail the feedback to the knoppix team. Every distro I think could use some extended feedback on that respect and could also benefit from the knoppix updated hardware database.
Will it happen ? You guess is as good as mine but I’d say it won’t.
For instance we provide a modem that can be plugged whether through USB or Ethernet, the installation is made through an automatic script/InstallShield on Windows and still people call us to have help.
Well, of course you’ll only notice does who call for help. Does who don’t have problems will call you. So your judgement on the capabilities is skewed, because you’ll tend to notice those who have problems (because they call customer support) and not those who don’t (because they don’t). This is a well-known (and unconscious) behavior in psychology, I think it’s called selective reinforcement.
You can’t judge the average level of computer users based on customer service phone calls, because it is a bad sample from which to make a generalization. Period.
As for the rest of your post, well, it does describe how Linux was at some point, but things have greatly improved. Since the subject of the discussion is “the future of the Linux desktop”, then past problems that have for the most part been solved are irrelevant in this context.
Really, you should not be using Debian. If you don’t want to configure everything by hand, use a distro that configures everything for you. It’s quite simple.
Try Mandrake or Lindows, and I think you will find all that configuration is done during install by clicking ‘ok’.
On another note, some people feel there is some shame in using an easy distro, it’s somehow not ‘macho’ or ‘technical’ enough to feel as though they are really using Linux.
I would personally feel more ashamed if I was making life difficult for myself for no reason. Personally I know my way around Linux enough to build a LFS or Gentoo system if the task required it, but I don’t want to waste my time configuring every little part of the system without a well defined reason to be doing so.
While it can be useful for some to learn the intricacies of Linux (I know I’ve learned a lot over the past three years), if you just want a system that works and has nice GUI administration tools, why not use a distro that was designed with this in mind? Mandrake, Lindows, Lycoris…
No offense to anyone, but I’d rather see less articles on “the future of Linux on the desktop” and more money for public schools.
No offense to you, but I don’t think there’s a direct equivalency between “Linux on the Desktop” articles and school funding. This is like saying: “I think Britney Spears puts out too many albums, I’d rather have peace on earth.” The two just aren’t related, so affecting one won’t have an effect on the second!
I think open source is a priority inversion. I hope that it is outlawed soon, so that paid developers like myself can continue to have homes and be able to feed our children.
Yes, but what you are ignoring is the fact that those 30-year-olds spent the last 10 years watching 4 to 6 hours of TV everyday. And while watching this TV they weren’t thinking about DOS or UNIX commands. So they have a struggle to relearn how to learn and in getting interested about technology.
Old people, people over 30, in general are scared of technology. They buy a computer because they feel the need to have one, but they don’t want to break it or make it cost them anymore than it already has. Unless, of course, they need to upgrade so they can run the latest software, which they will never purchase.
And my grandma? She doesn’t ever want to use one. She likes the TV and the phone and the kitchen. Computers were not around when she was exploring reality, so she has no interest in ever learning about them.
Why are computers so important? Because with them, and if we work together, we can build a network that allows each and every person in our society to communicate with eachother as if they are in the same room. With video and audio and data transmissions. But, like the telephone, in order for this to work EVERYONE has to have one. And EVERYONE has to have broadband.
But our economists and politicians don’t understand the big picture, and they don’t care about my grandma or any of my friends/family. They just want AOL to make money.
Unfortunately, I can’t see how any of this is funny.
I will spend my life learning and working with technology that I will never be able to share with my friends/family. This depresses me and makes me wonder what’s the point. Why build it if they won’t come? Should we just leave them behind?
My experience with Linux has been that you install either from RPM, which has been 80% unsuccessful for me due to dependencies, or you build from source code, which has yielded equally unpleasant results. This has been enough to turn me away from Linux in the past, and I am willing to bet it has been enough to do the same for a vast number of other people.
RPM is 100% successful for me. There are reason things like synaptic exist. And RPM is not the ultimate answer to software management, which is why not every Linux distro uses it.
You can’t tell me its easier to download/install or purchase software than to click on it from the synaptic menu. From synaptic you don’t have license agreements to read, or to tell it which directories to install software into, etc. Its all automated, downloads, handles dependencies and installs for you.
Yes, the gauges are in a different spot. Tough. Does that mean you’re going to drive Fords you’re whole life because you can’t learn how to use a Chevy?
A better analogy would probably be BMW or Mercedes for $50k vs. an old ’69 Ford/Chevy for free. Yes, the American cars are made cheaper and don’t have all the luxuries of the BMW/Mercs, some rust here and there, no stereo or leather. But they’re built with steel and have enough room under the hood to rebuild the engine, if you feel like doing it yourself. Plus the truck is full of manuals to show you how to do it all.
You get what you pay for, perhaps, but some of us can’t afford a $50k car. Which is why we should be standardizing on Linux. Everyone can afford it, meaning, everyone can exchange documents, information, etc. If we care about these things.
But it is my understanding that some of us exist in an upper “class” don’t like talking to the janitors and security guards. Is that correct? Is that why we need our BMWs and MSs? Are we really better than anyone else because we have these things?
I think open source is a priority inversion. I hope that it is outlawed soon, so that paid developers like myself can continue to have homes and be able to feed our children.
I know you’re just trolling (like you are on the Kernel 2.4.24 thread), but I’ll say it anyway: Open Source doesn’t mean working for free. The majority of Linux Kernel contributors are paid employees. The idea that only proprietary software can provide an income is a complete fabrication disseminated by MS and its shills.
In any case, how could open source ever be outlawed, since it does not contravene any laws?
“KDE Control Center – complicated? Give me a break, I find it a model of clarity, and something like this should have been in Windows a long time ago. Its easy to find, and easy to use.”
Well, great to you! To me it’s too reminiscent of windows. For my needs I find it much simpler to assemble the programs I need and put everything together using textfiles for configuration, as I can do with Fluxbox. My point in the reply was that this is an example of the freedom and configurability of my FreeBSD desktop. I have never denied that KDE can be a great desktop for people with other ideas. This is freedom you know. Do you have a problem with that?
“Obviously you are talking about yourself, when you call Linux by the subject line of RE:Not mature enough (yet).”
LOL! I *reply* to a post that has the subject line “Not mature enough (yet)” and you think that this reflects on my maturity, is that what you mean?
Sorry, I was to quick, the post from
Anonymous (IP: —.015-33-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
should be from me, dion.
[quote]Old people, people over 30, in general are scared of technology. [/quote]
So I am 33 yrs old and i am a thicko eh?
I have used computers since i was 12yrs old, and many people I know have used or are using computers all the time. One chap in our area is 94 and using a computer for internet based research and html creation at his office.
I upgrade my machine when I feel like it, it isn’t hard you know, oh and my job? I sell custom made computers!
I will install any OS the buyer wishes, be it Windows, Linux, BSD, whatever. I would like to say that the majority of my customers use Linux but they do not, only a few out of the sveral thousand custmers I had from 2003 actually wanted Linux, even then a few months later they asked for Windows!