The next official release of Gentoo Linux will adopt a new year-based versioning scheme and will be called Gentoo Linux 2004. It will be released in January 2004. It will also mark their transition to a quarterly release schedule. Elsewhere, LWN featured recently an introduction to Gentoo Linux.
The Future of Gentoo Linux
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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and no not because I’m a performance geek trying to muster every cpu cycle to it’s ultimate potential.
I love it because of:
1. Their forums/community is top notch and extremely helpful, even to n00bs.
2. Portage (i could never go back to RPM’s now)
3. You will learn a lot and it’s fun learning it!
It gets slammed as an elitist geek distro, and that’s fine I guess… Just give it a chance if you haven’t.
I agree, but RPM’s don’t have any fundamental flaws. It’s a cool file format. Portage and RPM do fundamentally different things; i.e. portage itself isn’t just a package manager.
Distros with urpmi are binary equivalents of portage, and wrap around package management to satisfy dependencies ala apt.
Yer, its cool. Portage has its problems but I have noticed with open source, stuff only gets better
Its easy to keep my system up to date and everything is compiled for high performance.
I used to use mandrake for 2 years… I now use gentoo.
All you really need to know is a little bit about compiler flags and some basic file-mounting techniques to get started…. the documentation/ install guide is really really good. And the process is more automated than you think.
I must say, that I feel more in control of my computer since I started Gentooing… And it gives me bragging rights for “building my own linux”.
Although, the next distribution to have parallel startup scripts will have my loyalty. (I h8 lousy boot times… and I don’t like leaving my computer on all the time)
still will not matter, I can take a 1.2 CD and still get the latest version. When they mean the next release of Gentoo, they are talking about the Live Installer CD
Is this in the store to buy?
I don’t think Gentoo has boxed sets. It’s a “source-based” distribution of Linux – if you don’t know what that is, it may not be for you. Other distros, such as Mandrake, SuSE, Lindows, etc. have boxed products which you can find in some stores or order on the Internet.
For more info about Gentoo:
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
I’m pretty sure it will show up in the store when its released, just like the current releases.
http://store.gentoo.org/
That store! Eh, er, okay, never mind my previous comment. I guess I missed that one!
I still don’t think Unix is ready for the desktop, but that may just be my limited experience speaking.
I absolutely love Unix for servers, though. My personal favourite flavor is FreeBSD4.x, as I’m sure everyone knows, but some time in the future I plan to check out Gentoo as a potential companion-OS … I have higher hopes for it than for Mandrake or RedHat.
I still don’t think Unix is ready for the desktop, but that may just be my limited experience speaking.
If you’re referring to Linux here (as a ‘Unix-like’ OS), the question of whether or not it is ‘ready for the desktop’ depends entirely on what you want to do with it.
I think the best way to approach Linux as an OS candidate is to first assess (sp) what your hardware/software needs are, and see if Linux can fill those needs. If it can, there are probably distros that can accomidate almost anyone. They’ve got the ‘easy-as-pie’ distros such as Lindows and Xandros all the way down to rolling your own distros.
I don’t think Gentoo has boxed sets. It’s a “source-based” distribution of Linux – if you don’t know what that is, it may not be for you.
Wow, despite the condescending arrogance, you are in fact the one who is wrong.
“and no not because I’m a performance geek trying to muster every cpu cycle to it’s ultimate potential.”
Same here! For me it has nothing to do about optimization and everything to do about being able to upgrade things w/out running into conflicts.
I really like it because:
1. The forums/community/docs are VERY helpful.
2. Portage (I’ll never go back to up2date or apt)… well maybe apt…
3. Portage… It has almost any Linux app I could think of installing and multiple versions of each app. When I used apt I was always having to add difference sources to get different programs to install.
4. Everything seems very organized. Preferences always seem to be in a very consistant place.
5. I can customize how I install things. Using the ‘use’ command you can customize if you compile a program with gtk1 or 2 or many others options. I wanted to use the 1.2.x version of Galeon instead of the 1.3.x version and I could do that very easily in Gentoo…
I do think that for newbies to be able to use Gentoo there will need to be a distro based on Gentoo. Something similar to what Libranet did with Debian.
Wow, despite the condescending arrogance, you are in fact the one who is wrong
Condescending arrogance? What are you talking about – I was trying to be as polite as possible! I misunderstood the question, and thought it was a newbie who wanted to know if boxed sets of Gentoo were available in stores. I assumed he didn’t know that Gentoo was a source-based distro, and then suggested that if he didn’t knew what a source-based distro was, then chances were that it might not be the best way to get introduced to Linux.
I was trying to be helpful after misunderstanding the poster’s intentions, and you accuse me of being arrogant and condescendant! Not to mention that, as soon as I realized my mistake, I admitted it and told the original poster to ignore my previous reply.
It sounds as if you’re desperately looking for mean-spirited Linux advocates in order to prove a point…sorry to disappoint you, but here I was merely trying to be helpful towards a newbie.
1) The ability to install two versions of the same package without problems. Thanks to the slot technology.
2) The best package manager on Linux, period. The only other one as good is apt.
3) The fact that I don’t need to go hunting for packages all over the internet.
4) That largest repository of software packages second only to Debian.
5) The cleanest init system in any Linux distro.
6) The best community is any Linux distro. IRC, Mailing list , Forums.
7) The most up to date Linux distro.
8) The powerful USE flags
9) The ability to rebuild packages that depend on the same libraries. Good on those rare occassion when SSL decides to break compatibility. 😉
10) Optimisations for your computer specific architecture.
11) Best source based distro, period.
Ignore df, he’s a troll.
Indeed, he’s been trying to start flame wars for the past few days.
I’m a FreeBSD user but I’ve spent alot of time installing/removing various Linux distros over the past 5 years. I still haven’t found one that behaves the way I want.
I would prefer something thats:
1. Redhat compatible so I can learn something I might really see in production. This leaves out all but the major distros
2. Something with good community support and readily available packages.
3. Something that I don’t have to reinstall every 6 months when a new release comes out. I’ve gotten used to BSD’s cvsup/make world system.
I’ve tried RH, Suse, Mandrake and they’ve all been missing something. I’m using Gentoo now even though I doubt I’ll see it in production soon. I like the easy system maintenance.
I think GNU was hacked twice, so you should either include them twice in the list, or put a helpful (x 2) off to the right so people are aware of this.
according to the future features above, gentoo will be able to install automatically (like other distros)?
i wish if gentoo is easier to install !!! installation process is way too complicated and time-consuming now.
Back when 1.4 was released they said the next release would have a graphical installer for the “Gentoo Reference Platform” installation option. Anybody know if we’ll see it in January?
It just works. There are only three Linux distros;
1) Gentoo (source);
2) Debian (binary) and
3) the rest…
It just works. There are only three Linux distros;
1) Gentoo (source);
2) Debian (binary) and
3) the rest…
Forget point 3, Debian and Gentoo will do.
>> … There are only three Linux distros
four! add one of those LiveCD distros too (knoppix/mandrakeMove/etc)
The main advantage of Gentoo is the USE flags system. The real advantage of compiling code is customizing the binary for your system.
The speed thing is really a non-issue since it is such a small difference.
Portage is good, apt-get is just as good.
They do have a good msg board.
The use flags are the only reason I wait out the long compile times
Your so called facts are really sugar coated with your opinion.
1) The ability to install two versions of the same package without problems. Thanks to the slot technology.
Hmm… technology huh? Well it’s a good feature but I don’t know if I’d call it “technology”. Then again I like to claim that I use a brand of toilet paper with odor fighting technolgy.
2) The best package manager on Linux, period. The only other one as good is apt.
Well, I don’t know what your criteria for “best” is but portage still is not mature and has many flaws. One being that it’s written in Python. Portage and python is joined at the hip and there is nothing you can do to fix that. This makes Gentoo unsuitable for production environment which requires a barebone setup. There are many packages in x86 (so called stable) either broken or abandoned. There are also things like conflicting dependencies in packages just don’t jive. For example: package A depends on package B where package A depends on specific version of lib X and package B depends on lib X of different version. Therefore package A and B are fighting eachother for lib X. There is lot of that going on in portage. xine in portage used to have this very problem. Maybe it’s fixed but there is nothing on the server side that prevents such a thing from being detected or prevented.
3) The fact that I don’t need to go hunting for packages all over the internet.
apt-get.. rpmfind.net.. FreeBSD’s ports.. Mandrake and Slackware has something similar I can’t remember. Not having to hunt stuff down isn’t some unique feature of Gentoo.
4) That largest repository of software packages second only to Debian.
Well I thought there are more packages for Gentoo than Debian. Personally I prefer quality over quantity. It seems like Gentoo folks are working hard at getting the package numbers up but quality is suffereing as result.
5) The cleanest init system in any Linux distro.
init system is clean and new but it’s bit uninspiring. If Gentoo folks wants to get away from SysV then do something different for the purpose of actually creating something better. Something like parallel starup would be nice.
6) The best community is any Linux distro. IRC, Mailing list , Forums.
Yet again you use the word “best” but that’s subjective. Every other distro out there has irc, mailing list, forums, bugzilla, yadda yadda. Nothing new there.
7) The most up to date Linux distro.
Being up to date is a double edge sword. Most up to date can also be interpreted as bleeding edge. It’s not necessarily a good thing.[tm]
8) The powerful USE flags
Yes but USE flags are being abused now and all sorts of inconsistancies are being crept in. For example: moznoirc moznomail moznocompose
9) The ability to rebuild packages that depend on the same libraries. Good on those rare occassion when SSL decides to break compatibility. 😉
Yes… that’s all fun and good but have you tried uninstalling stuff? Try this:
emerge mysql
emerge postfix
emerge -C mysql
postfix will just stop working.. Why? It’s because postfix is compiled to use mysql lib and with mysql gone it just blows up. I don’t know why postfix insists on this craziness. By the way removing mysql doesn’t automatically rebuild postfix. It should but it doesn’t. Gentoo’s dependency checking is still missing some features.
10) Optimisations for your computer specific architecture.
Yea… I’ve heard this before. Gentoo is fater than [insert arbitrary distro name here] because it’s optimized for your machine. This is more of a marketing babble than anything else. The performance you gain by optimizing for your specific arch does not offset the time spent compiling. For example if you spend 10 minutes (600 seconds) compiling and installing an app with Gentoo verses binary install which takes about 3 seconds, you are already in the hole for 597 seconds. If you gain a second for every time you launch an app, you’ll have to use that app 597 times to even out. Sometimes the benefits are measured in miliseconds. The ironic thing about this is the faster the computer it’s less noticeable the difference is. Older the box is the potential benefit is greater when running the program but of course you’ll be compling things all day instead of minutes.
11) Best source based distro, period.
You’re probably right. It might just be best source based distro. But is it THE BEST distro? I don’t think so. In the end I think Gentoo being source based distro it has all the baggages and problems that all the other source based distro suffers from.
Having said everything I think person choosing a linux distro should decide whether if they want a binary based distro or source based distro. If someone has a slow internet connection or slow system,this decison has been pretty much made for you. I just can’t imagine someone with dialup and/or <1ghz box using Gentoo or any other source distro.
“Hmm… technology huh? Well it’s a good feature but I don’t know if I’d call it “technology”. Then again I like to claim that I use a brand of toilet paper with odor fighting technolgy.
“
The technology is unique to Gentoo. That’s all that matters.
Well, I don’t know what your criteria for “best” is but portage still is not mature and has many flaws.
Depends on your criteria for maturity. I haven’t seen a flawless package manager. Perhaps you can enlighten me on one.
One being that it’s written in Python. Portage and python is joined at the hip and there is nothing you can do to fix that.
So lets follow your logic. Because Portage is written in Python it is not mature. What language does portage need to be written in for it to assume the status of maturity, oh wise one?
This makes Gentoo unsuitable for production environment which requires a barebone setup.
I’m sorry but don’t production environment require a barebone and customized setup?
There are many packages in x86 (so called stable) either broken or abandoned.
Many? Can you list any, please? I’d make sure to write a bug report for all of them.
There are also things like conflicting dependencies in packages just don’t jive. For example: package A depends on package B where package A depends on specific version of lib X and package B depends on lib X of different version. Therefore package A and B are fighting eachother for lib X. There is lot of that going on in portage. xine in portage used to have this very problem. Maybe it’s fixed but there is nothing on the server side that prevents such a thing from being detected or prevented.
Thanks to the slot technology, the same libraries of different version can be installed and used in gentoo with no problems. Oh, and I have both versions of xine-lib installed.
apt-get.. rpmfind.net.. FreeBSD’s ports.. Mandrake and Slackware has something similar I can’t remember. Not having to hunt stuff down isn’t some unique feature of Gentoo
Who said it was unique to Gentoo? Eugina just submitted a review on Slackware saying she had to hunt down packages on the internet to install them on slackware. She doesn’t find that bothersome. That’s very nice. But I do.
Well I thought there are more packages for Gentoo than Debian. Personally I prefer quality over quantity. It seems like Gentoo folks are working hard at getting the package numbers up but quality is suffereing as result.
Can you give us any insight to some poorly packages ebuilds and what you have done to correct the situation?
init system is clean and new but it’s bit uninspiring. If Gentoo folks wants to get away from SysV then do something different for the purpose of actually creating something better. Something like parallel starup would be nice.
It’s clean, it’s simple, it’s easy to use and it works. That’s all that matters. Did I mention it’s the best implementation I’ve seen?
Yet again you use the word “best” but that’s subjective. Every other distro out there has irc, mailing list, forums, bugzilla, yadda yadda. Nothing new there.
Yes, I didn’t say other distro don’t have irc, etc. I said Gentoo’s is the best of the lot. Did you read the LWN article at all?
Being up to date is a double edge sword. Most up to date can also be interpreted as bleeding edge. It’s not necessarily a good thing.[tm]
That’s what make Gentoo special. It’s bleeding edge, yet stable.
Yes but USE flags are being abused now and all sorts of inconsistancies are being crept in. For example: moznoirc moznomail moznocompose
Abused? Inconsistencies? I don’t understand.
Yes… that’s all fun and good but have you tried uninstalling stuff? Try this:
emerge mysql
emerge postfix
emerge -C mysql
postfix will just stop working.. Why? It’s because postfix is compiled to use mysql lib and with mysql gone it just blows up. I don’t know why postfix insists on this craziness. By the way removing mysql doesn’t automatically rebuild postfix. It should but it doesn’t. Gentoo’s dependency checking is still missing some features.
One command “revdep-rebuild”.
Yea… I’ve heard this before. Gentoo is fater than [insert arbitrary distro name here] because it’s optimized for your machine. This is more of a marketing babble than anything else. The performance you gain by optimizing for your specific arch does not offset the time spent compiling. For example if you spend 10 minutes (600 seconds) compiling and installing an app with Gentoo verses binary install which takes about 3 seconds, you are already in the hole for 597 seconds. If you gain a second for every time you launch an app, you’ll have to use that app 597 times to even out. Sometimes the benefits are measured in miliseconds. The ironic thing about this is the faster the computer it’s less noticeable the difference is. Older the box is the potential benefit is greater when running the program but of course you’ll be compling things all day instead of minutes.
*yawns*
Yes…yes. As long as we both agree that it’s faster even if it’s by 0.00000000000000000001%, case is closed. It’s the fastest distro I’ve used, period. Your theories will only remain theories until the nullify my real world observations and practical experience.
You’re probably right. It might just be best source based distro. But is it THE BEST distro?
Most probably yes. I think it’s unfair to compare binary based distros with source based ones though.
I don’t think so. In the end I think Gentoo being source based distro it has all the baggages and problems that all the other source based distro suffers from.
So what is your suggestion for a better distro than Gentoo? And why should I use said distro over Gentoo?
Having said everything I think person choosing a linux distro should decide whether if they want a binary based distro or source based distro. If someone has a slow internet connection or slow system,this decison has been pretty much made for you. I just can’t imagine someone with dialup and/or <1ghz box using Gentoo or any other source distro.
Agreed.
.
Does Gentoo have any gui admin/system tools similar in functionaly to RedHat or SuSE?
.
Does Gentoo have any gui admin/system tools similar in functionaly to RedHat or SuSE?
No. Gentoo uses whatever system tools that comes with your desktop environment. The other administrative tools that gentoo uses are operated via the command line. Although some people some people are in the process of writing GUIs for some of them.
For system administration, I think the command line is an efficient alternative and GUIs are unwarranted.
“I just can’t imagine someone with dialup and/or <1ghz box using Gentoo or any other source distro.”
Funny, it works fine on my sub 500mhz system. And I can’t imagine someone downloading any large software on dialup, this isn’t unique to gentoo, or even linux.
Gentoo *can* be a source-based distro, if that’s what you want. If you want a binary distro, Gentoo can do that, too.
You can download a companion to the LiveCD that contains reasonably up-to-date binary packages that are optimized for your architecture. Or, you can find many packages in the portage tree come with binary packages, especially the really huge ones like KDE and OpenOffice (which I chose to download binary, since I heard it took a week to compile).
The reason why I think Gentoo is the best is because it can be all things to all people. If you want source (like me), you can get source. If you want binary (like IT’s who can’t babysit a server compiling itself), you can get binary.
Regardless, you get the feature-rich portage system (not perfect, but pretty dang good).
“Indeed, he’s been trying to start flame wars for the past few days.”
Okay. So, all the baseless Microsoft criticism and flamewars are okay…
…but pointing out high-profile Linux security breaches that undermine the flawless image of Linux spouted forth around here is trolling?
I think GNU, GNOME, Debian, FSF, and Gentoo are pretty big news, yet you don’t even see them acknowledged around here.
As for Gentoo itself, it’s a great distro for compiling from source, but I have yet to see very much of a speed difference. In fact, if I’m going to be compiling source, I’d rather follow Linux From Scratch, because you get even more total control. As far as I’m concerned, you can’t beat the idea of complete control of your system like LFS does. The only non-source based distro I know of that I would bother with is Slackware.
“…but pointing out high-profile Linux security breaches that undermine the flawless image of Linux spouted forth around here is trolling?”
When it’s off-topic and/or posted in an incendiary manner with the sole intent of provoking a flame-fest, yes.
And since when has “but everyone else is doing it!” been an acceptable excuse?
Besides, you’re plain wrong, yet again. There have certainly been recent stories posted here which portray Linux in a less-than-favourable light, for instance RedHat’s announcement that home users should stay with Windows for the present.
“I think GNU, GNOME, Debian, FSF, and Gentoo are pretty big news, yet you don’t even see them acknowledged around here.”
“GNU” and “FSF” are the same people, in case you didn’t know…
Each of the compromises was announced and dealt with pretty much completely openly by the compromised parties themselves. No attempt of a cover-up of any kind. What’s left to acknowledge?
Oh, and the Debian situation *was* covered here (http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5196). How do you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t even be bothered to check your facts before you start ranting?
I gave Gentoo a serious try. I still have it running on one machine.
Working on a P133 it took a whole week to compile and install everything I wanted. Once it was up it was fast and responsive for being on a old slow computer. There were a few things that didn’t quite work right; nothing I couldn’t live with but annoying. I’ve been a UNIX sysadmin for 12 years and have run Linux since before most current users had even heard of it and I followed the Jolitz’s BSD column in Dr. Dobbs Journal and was the first person in my neighborhood to light up 386BSD. In spite of all of this experience I still had trouble getting everything right with Gentoo. I’m sure I could fix all the little problems but frankly I don’t need more problems than necessary from my computers.
I switched to Vector Linux. It installed quickly, everythign worked right on the first try, and to me it feels as fast and responsive as Gentoo. Perhaps Gentoo’s optimization would allow it to beat Vector on a timed benchmark but my seat-of-the-pants impression is Vector is as fast as Gentoo.
I wouldn’t mind all the extra work getting Gentoo up if it resulted is a superior system but in my opinion Gentoo is more bother than it is worth when there are other small and fast distros that do the same thing only easier.
Portage is nice, it would be nice if all distros had it but that is the only advantage it has over Vector.
The store is not exactly user friendly
On the front page, you have an “add to cart” link, but no price, so you still have to visit the detail pages to see the price 🙁
What exactly couldn’t you get working? Gentoo is reputed to be one of those distros where things just work, at least until you mentioned these unclear problems.
“When it’s off-topic and/or posted in an incendiary manner with the sole intent of provoking a flame-fest, yes.”
It was not off-topic–it was about Gentoo–and it was not posted in an incendiary manner with the sole intent of provoking a flame-fest. Besides, people do that all the time about Windows, and nobody bats an eye. Interesting.
“Besides, you’re plain wrong, yet again.”
Why is it so gosh-darned difficult for you to admit Linux has flaws like everything else? Is it a personal ego thing or what?
“There have certainly been recent stories posted here which portray Linux in a less-than-favourable light, for instance RedHat’s announcement that home users should stay with Windows for the present.”
There has been nothing about Gentoo’s hack or the FSF hack.
“GNU” and “FSF” are the same people, in case you didn’t know…
No, it was two different attacks. GNU’s ftp was hacked, and then the FSF discovered that last month, savannah was infiltrated, so they have taken it down. That’s why I differentiate.
“Each of the compromises was announced and dealt with pretty much completely openly by the compromised parties themselves. No attempt of a cover-up of any kind. What’s left to acknowledge?”
Where did I say there was a cover-up? The only covering up I see is among Linux fanboys that have, for whatever reason, called OSNews their home. They refuse to admit or discuss these hacks. Yet they blast Microsoft for insecurity.
“Oh, and the Debian situation *was* covered here (http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5196). How do you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t even be bothered to check your facts before you start ranting?”
Hey, point me to the Gentoo hack or the recent FSF hack stories? Oh, that’s right. You were wrong. Again.
The coverage of stories such as RedHat’s pronouncement of Linux’s lack of suitability for the desktop amply demonstrate, to my mind, that the OSNews moderators (they are the ones responsible for choosing which news items show up on the front page) do not have a pro-Linux bias. .
Therefore, it logically follows that those stories were not covered for some other reason. There are many possibilities: perhaps the moderators felt they had been covered adequately elsewhere and thus would not offer anything new for the readership, or perhaps no-one had submitted those things as news items. I certainly don’t share your paranoid delusions about a “linux fanboy conspiracy” among the moderator body.
Quit tilting at windmills and find another dead horse to flog.
The only covering up I see is among Linux fanboys that have, for whatever reason, called OSNews their home. They refuse to admit or discuss these hacks.
Perhaps that’s because you’re not trying to “discuss” these hacks – you’re just using them as an excuse to bash Linux and trumpet that Windows has a better security record – and then claim that Linux users won’t acknowledge that these hacks happened – which is false. Of course they happened. Hacks happen. Microsoft-based systems get hacked as well. A lot. Most DDoS attacks involved dozens, if not hundreds of hacked Windows boxes.
The important thing in the recent hacks is that the integrity of the data was not compromised. In other words, the system works, despite your doomsaying.
But really, what you’re interested in is not discussion, it’s making provocative statements to elicit emotional responses. In other words, trolling.
But, okay, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. What specifically do you want to discuss about the recent hacks?