“This week’s big feature is the long-promised SUSE 9 review, courtesy of Paul “madmanx” Ehrenreich and Charles “ctkrohn” Krohn. Stephan “windi” Windischmann discusses less, the replacement for the standard more pager. We also demonstrate Linux’s pluggable authentication module system. Finally, Anders “w.anders” Widebrant introduces you to the awesome desktop animation tool vnc2swf.” Read the review at ArsTechnica.
SuSE Linux 9.0 Review at Ars
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Very awesome. I didn’t know that much about pam & limits. Also vnc2swf is kickass.
As usual, real meaty stuff from the guys at Ars!
The bit about vnc2swf was really cool! I didn’t know you could do that… Is it compatible with KDE’s remote desktop? I guess it should be since they use the same protocol, IIRC.
Over the course of the last several years, I’ve generally found SuSE to be the most satisfying distribution for general desktop use. For the last few weeks, though, I’d been happily running Fedora Core One. But, a few days ago, I bought and installed a copy of SuSE 9.0 Professional. I like it, too.
How would I compare SuSE 9.0 and FC1? Both are excellent distributions, and equivalent in areas that matter to me.
FC1’s untweaked install looks better. (I use a Matrox G550 on a 19-inch ViewSonic PS790 monitor that is starting to show some age.) Display quality is very important for me. If its your desktop, why put up with a second-rate display? After a bit of font and anti-alias tweaking, my SuSE display is comparable. (SuSE defaults to fonts that are too small for my monitor, and also defaults to anti-aliasing everything. I turned it off for fonts below 11 points, and use Bitstream’s Vera fonts.)
SuSE, of course, is very KDE-centric, while FC1 uses Red Hat’s hybrid that tilts to Gnome. I, too, tilt toward Gnome, but, sadly, SuSE rolled out 9.0 with Gnome 2.2, not Gnome 2.4. In truth, however, the differences between KDE and Gnome aren’t that extreme. I like minimal clutter on my desktop, and KDE let’s me do that. I’ve also toned down some of the busy-ness that seems characteristic of KDE’s default design.
I anticipate SuSE adding Ximian to the mix in the future, after the Novell purchase. I’m guessing we won’t see it, though, until Ximian moves on to Gnome 2.4
Both SuSE and FC1 come with my favorite browser these days: Epiphany. Why do I like Epiphany? I’m a big tabs user, and Epiphany’s tabs include valuable lttle “X’s” that allow me to kill a tab with a mouse click. (Is there a way to add these to Konqueror? If there is, I’m blind to it.) Epiphany has a great bookmarking scheme and is smart enough to tell me when I try to bookmark an address that’s already been bookmarked.
FC1 uses Epiphany 1.04, while SuSE uses 1.0. I give a slim edge here to FC1.
The mp3 issue doesn’t interest me, but if that’s important to you, then SuSE is the way to go, obviously.
SuSE also has a big edge in documentation, since it has the best printed documentation in the business. To be fair, though, FC1 is so new that it’s barely had time to start getting its documentation in order. Red Hat 9.0 docs typically apply without change to FC1. There’s certainly a plethora of Red Hat documentation out there. SuSe has better printed docs, but I’ve always found Red Hat’s online documentation to be superior. The Fedora folks have a good target to aim at in that regard.
Subjectively, performance seems equal. (I run an Athlon XP, 2700 mHz, 1 gig of ram, with a 115-gig Hitachi drive.) Actual bencharking results might or might not bear that out, but I judge things subjectively, as do we all.
SuSE understands the VT8233/A/8235 sound card that’s onboard my ASUS AV87X-x motherboard, and FC1 doesn’t.
Installation of both dsitributions is essentially identical. Administration and updating are also equivalent. SuSE’s had several years to polish Yast, and FC1 uses the equally polished up2date and the spiffy yum tool.
Number of apps? SuSE wins. (Note: If you install FC1, selecting every package in every individual category won’t install every last package on the CS’s. If that’s what you want, just select the install “Everything” option.)
Bottom line: These are both cream of the crop distributions for desktop users. If you don’t feel like buying SuSE, and don’t have a need for some of SuSE’s apps, give FC1 a try. If you like great documentation and prefer KDE, SuSE 9.0 is for you.
After using both for an extended amount of time, I can say that SuSE 9.0 is quite a bit better than Fedora Core 1.0
SuSE is very polished and the KDE is extremely fast compared to other distributions. The Pro version also includes some nice closed-source applications like a video editor and sound editor. Yast2 is improved with more modules and expanded modules.
Fedora is still very rough and things don’t work as well as regular GNOME or regular KDE. There are also fewer applications and they are not as optimized.
Regarding enloop’s question about Konqueror tabs, KDE 3.1 doesn’t have that feature but 3.2 will have it and it has been in CVS for some time now. Try downloading the latest 3.2 beta 1 packages from kde.org to get them.
Please, if you Ars people are reading this, do not make websites that require 1280×1024 resolution to be able to be read. There is no excuse for making a website that needs anything larger than 800×600. Scrolling sideways for each individual line is very tiresome.
i been a Redhat user since i started used Linux back at the turn of the mellenium, i recently bought SuSE-9 and i am sold on SuSE, and use it now as my main distro, i am definatly a satisfied customer after buying SuSE…
Kudos to the SuSE developers, i hope Novell treats you good!!!
The FC1 mailing lists have seen a fair amount of traffic complaining about rough edges, but I didn’t notice them. Perhaps I just wasn’t exercising those parts of the distribution, but I had no problems using it or updating it.
As for polish and appearance, on my hardware, I give a FC1 a very slight edge. However, the difference is small enough that someone with different hardware might see a different result. FC1 doesn’t use out-of-the box Gnome, but Red Hat’s Gnome/KDE hybrid. I like simple, uncluttered displays, and it works for me. (By contrast, I find KDE’s kerimak theme to be gaudy, busy, and unappealing.)
and it didn’t work with my modem
Not 100 % sure about this but ltmodem i heard were not included in some suse distros . Had something to do with modem makers not allowing drivers to be used.
Suse is a good distribution though. No real problems with it.
I’ve just tried out SUSE 9.0 Live Eval plus Knoppix 3.3 and Mandrake 9.2 and was very impressed by each. YAST looked more comprehensive than ever. Since I like having the choice of many KDE and many GNOME apps in either desktop, the neutral Mdk suits me well so I’m now spending more time booted into that than Win2K.
If I recall correctly, SUSE out of the box recognised the Winmodems in both my boxes but I had already downloaded rpms and got them working with Mdk so I didn’t follow it thru.
Off topic –
Epiphany style Tabs close boxes are available in Mozilla Netscape and Firebird thanks to this nice plugin “TabBrowser Extensions” from here – http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.html.en
In the Preferences->Navigator page it expands the Tabbed Browser page with 10 more sub pages !.
I now like having a progress bar also displayed on each Tab plus choosing how links open Windows v Tabs is really nice plus being able to bring back accidentally closed Tabs.
Enjoy.
Brian N
I think Suse 9.0 is an excellent distro. However, I can’t get my sony clie SJ20 palm to hotsync with kpilot, anyone here try it before? I think hotplug is running since I saw it booting at boot time, any ideas?
Too bad it doesn’t come with Helvetica, Courier, and Lucida(Typewriter) not antialiased as default (many distributions do and it is much better – at least for those using linux for some years – doesn’t need extra work and time).
I think it not very fair to compare it w/ Fedora. Fedora is not a company product, it comunity based w/ a few config tools that are years away from yast2.
I am waiting for the SuSE Pro pack.
Im my personal case I bought it not because it is a whizbang version but because I will be buying later the “Wine Rack” (codeweaver’s) CD from SuSE to run some Windows apps on it; all things considered, SuSE is nice (for me).
It’s entirely fair to compare Fedora and SuSE. Or any other two distributions, for that matter. Every Linux distribution is community-based. To all intents and purposes, they all run the same code, too.
Fedora isn’t a new distribution. It is Red Hat 9 plus bug fixes. I’ve used RH9 a great deal, and the only difference I can see is that Fedora looks better and runs faster. If you’re new to Linux and want to learn FC1, buy yourself an after-market RH9 book.
So, Fedora may not be an official Red Har product, but FC1 has the same code, the same tools, the same installer, etc., as Red Hat 9. Fedora may be a community project, but it’s a community purpose-built by Red Hat that lives on Red Hat servers.
SuSE 9 and FC1 are both excellent distributions; the differences between them are minor and subjective.
Well… He’s so ridiculous he might actually get hired for SCO.
I have been with SUSE since version 7.3; it’s evolving and maturing on the right track. This latest version 9.0 is much responsive, boots and shuts down faster. It’s also well polished. I don’t know your issues with Gnome 2.2; I quite like it. The only thing that’s missing is an option to change the screen resolution on the fly; I hope the next release comes with this option. Also, I would to see YOU (Yast Online Update) updating my current kernel with the upcoming kernel 2.6 (stable). I am sure if SUSE developers maintain their current pace, SUSE will turn out to be a clear alternative to costly Microsoft products.
I really like the default interface, the excellent h/w detection, and YAST.
I did have a few problems however:
-YAST would freeze when I was trying to uninstall something
-very sluggish(amdxp-2200+, 256MB)
-i couldnt raise the resolution above 1028*768 (i tried YAST, KDE control, edit /etc/X11/XF86Config, and XF86Config. But they all didnt work)
Right now im d/ling MEPIS. Its a debian based distro /w a nice graphical installer and system tools.
I’m really curious to see how MEPIS turns out. It looks interesting… write up a review once you have a chance to try it out….
hmmm a review, eh? Sure why not, I’ll give it a try.
Pricing for Suse (and linux distros in general) kills me. They package bunch of free tools and sell it for $39.99. That’s fine – they’ve put in a lot of work.
Then they add 5 more FREE apps (that you can download on your own), call it the “Professional” version and sell it for $79.99. Fantastic.
The ars guy said that +400 pages manual are already worth the money. Now, if you don’t object that finding, then the double price for +1100 pages in the pro version should be fine as well. Further, you get a double sided DVD + 5 CDs.
On a side note, if it wouldn’t be for ars, I had to assume that UBER-n00b himself was writing about the hardware — well maybe he was in fact…: How on earth can he possibly call a PIII and a P 4 system with different graphics, chipsets, etc.. — different everything — “same”…?! He must be crazed out… hardware can’t differ much more…
Tried out vnc2swf, but I only get it to capture the ENTIRE screen…
How do I tell that sucker to capture a certain size rectangle at a certain location? (even better would be to capture a specific window, reason being doing tutorials)
I got a copy of SuSE’s pro edition cheaply at version 7.(can’tremember).
You get a DVD edition, as well as the regular 5 CDs, support for a given period (I think mine was 90 days), and a great big whacking manual. It really is superb documentation and well worth having if you want to find out what to do, or what you can do with your box.
A few things:
1) The DVD is great! You want a program you slap it in, fire up YaST, Search for it (just like Apt) and there it is
2) The updates are fantastic. In case anyone doesn’t already know, SuSE uses something called Patch RPMs. These are cut down RPMs for upgrading from one specific version to another, however they only include the files that needs updating so they’re TINY. This is great for modem users like myself, and is the thing that’s gonna keep me going for ages
3) The manuals are translated from German and not very well. In the professional manuals there are somethings which are just plain wrong, evidently the translator didn’t know much about TCP/IP. That’s fair enough, but SuSE’s got a UK office, they should have got someone there to proof-read it. If they they’d have noticed that of the three paragraphs describing the KDE desktop two were still in German!
Also they professional manuals are a bit vague. They consist mainly of brief introductions and links to websites. There’s no really MEAT to them. There’s a chapter on LDAP that doesn’t really get you very far setting up LDAP. There’s almost nothing there on setting up mail servers. There’s very little about securing Linux distros. Really a task based approach would have worked here. Instead of general introductions, there should be tutorials on HOW to do this and how to do that.
That said, other chapters are quite good, but their the minority. And for a company chargin €100 incl tax for “Professional” distro, work needs to be done on the manual’s translation.
4) There are a few bugs around.
The Help Centre can sometimes take 3 minutes to start, without any splash or anything!
In the en_GB locale OpenOffice seems to be using US English dictionaries.
Form buttons in mozilla don’t work, to Go button doesn’t work, and two nights ago I couldn’t save some pictures I’d loaded either via right-click or the File menu.
The Games they highlight are all alpha quality. Racer, for some reason, starts in a 1024×768 resolution, possibly higher, and as a result, on my 800Mhz PIII with TNT2 graphics runs at about 0.3fps (seriously). All the game types in Torcs don’t include the “Player 1” character by default, causing the game to crash. Neverball occasionally just stops. That said, when they work, TORCs and Neverball are a lot of fun
5) The menus need work. While SuSE pioneered the single menu structure, with ALL programs being available in the one menu, and that menu being the same in all environments, they need to re-evaluate it. At the moment you select a type (e.g. office) then a program type (e.g. Word processor) which brings you to a menu with up to 6 options. This is very awkward. They would do well to copy RedHats approach, having the main programs in the first menu, identified by function instead of name, then having a More menu which provides the rest. In the best and average case, this will result in on less menu for the user to traverse. In the worst case it’ll be the same as it currently is.
6) For some reason, every distro out there is abandoning KPPP, despite the fact that this is the best dial-up program for Linux, is well maintained, supports accounting and has an interface which will be similar to users from other OSs. SuSE uses kinternet (which docks into the KDE systray), qinternet (which docks into the KDE systray) and cinternet which works on the console. The is no Gnome equivalent. You either pop up a console or start k/qinternet and have it appear in an ugly 1×1 inch grey window.
Furthermore, it’s just not very obvious that you click on that plug thing in the systray to connect. Having the Kppp launcher icon on both desktops, labelled “Dial-Up” would be far better. This goes for RedHat/Fedora too, they’re global dial-up (which I last saw in 8.0) doesn’t support accounting, freezes while dialling up, and crashes if the dial-up doesn’t succeed, which can happen.
BUT! I’m sticking with SuSE. The patch RPMs are a godsend, and having bought the Pro version, I can presumably get the next Ximian/Novell/SuSE uber-distro cheap (-ish!) next year.
One final thing. Barring the dial-up mess, SuSE provides a perfectly good Gnome 2.2 desktop. Given the time-frame, they couldn’t have included a stable 2.4, and were due for a distro. And the user manual pays equal attention to each (even to the extent of having separate chapters for Kmail and Evolution).
SuSE seems to have it all — except I’ve yet to find a high-traffic, English-speaking community forum for SuSE. Does anyone know of such a forum? Where you would expect to get a couple of useful replies in less than a day?
> I don’t know your issues with Gnome 2.2; I quite like it.
I used to, but it’s lost its appeal. GNOME 2.4 was released nearly 3 months ago. This was ample time for SUSE to introduce it into version 9.0 of their distro. Most of the other distros have included it within the last few months.
> The only thing that’s missing is an option to change the
> screen resolution on the fly; I hope the next release comes
> with this option.
GNOME 2.4 __does__ have this option. If SUSE had bothered to update it, you would have this functionality.
Try http://www.linuxquestions.org
Check out the suse-linux-e mailing list (you can browse it online at http://lists.suse.com/). I can’t remember how I signed up, as far as I recall I sent an email to [email protected] and I got an error message back with instructions on how to subscribe!
I’ve recently switched over to SuSE 9 Pro. Really like. I prefer Gnome, but SuSE does have the Gnome 2.4.1 builds for download so you can update
alt.os.linux.suse
I’ve tried Suse 9.0 via FTP install and I’m downloading Fedora right now. Overall Suse 9.0 was very polished, speed was good, and had excellent menu layout. However, as with 8.2, it has very weak wireless pcmcia card support (two different cards on two different laptops). I got it working somewhat with a lot of manual tweaking, but was disappointed that Yast still couldn’t get this right, and that config files were all over the place. I had no problems with wireless on these laptops using Mandrake, Redhat, Morphix, Mepis, DSL, Knoppix, FreeBSD, and Debain. Hope they get it right next time…..
The guys at Ars Technica say that you must resize the vnc2swf window in order to capture a smaller area, but this doesn’t seem to work…
The app is cool but the swf quality isn’t very good – artefacts and all. This is something that will really be worth it at some point, but it doesn’t feel quite ready.
People have been trying to get VMWare to run on Suse 9.0 for a few months. Does Suse care? Apparently not.
Hey enloop, thank you for your article!
It’s a nice read and seems to be very objective. Great!
People have been trying to get VMWare to run on Suse 9.0 for a few months. Does Suse care? Apparently not.
I know you paid for vmware … or it came with xandros.
But if you can spend € 39 you have the proper wine+crossover for SuSE 9. Why should SuSE care with older libs if they have another emulator ?
http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/winerack/index.h…
I need VMWare to run Windows XP Pro, which is required for work. So I switched back to Gentoo last night. Or rather, I’m in the process of switching. Gotta love these long compiles.
Thanks for the link – at least I can play counter-strike if I load SuSE again.
Yes, and this version is wonderful. I can only say one thing: I was able, for the first time, to listen to BBC realplayer streams out of the box using kaffeine. SuSE keep up the good work. I hope the next version will include the version 2.6, which I understand is much more responsive than kernel 2.4.xx.