DesktopLinux.com, in coordination with the Desktop Linux Consortium, is making select presentations from Monday’s conference at Boston University’s Corporate Education Center available. The first presentation in the series is from IBM’s Sam Docknevich, Linux and Grid Services Executive for IBM Global Services. His presentation discusses IBM’s push into the Linux desktop market, an initiative from inside “Big Blue.” Elsewhere, LinuxJournal has a review of some of the presentations in the conference.
IBM keynote presentation from Desktop Linux Conference in Boston
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Eugenia Loli
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http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/article003/sld012.html
If you took the time to notice, they’ve used Lotus Freelance. Anyone who has used Lotus Smart Suite will recognise the clipart used. The man sitting at the computer desk located under Cartoons and comically called “Pete”.
Slide 18 shows the “Complete Novell Desktop Enviroment”.
It seems like Novell has chosen GNOME instead of KDE too. Just like Sun, I mean. Well, I agree.
Other slides suggest that this eviroment will also include Ximian Desktop. Cool. I can’t wait for a version of SuSE (now owned by Novell, too) that ships with XD.
Will gnome be the default desktop manager then?
Well IMO the presenation is very well done. It shows clear facts and tries not to be fanboyish(i dont think thats a word).
Good Job IBM!
Look at the list of deployments on slide 22:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/article003/sld022.html
Obviously, its ready for someone’s desktop. Those are some pretty significant deployments there.
Overall, I’m happy with how Linux on the desktop is progressing. Most importantly (to me anyway) Linux isn’t just integrating into the existing business model, but fundementally changing it. Nobody wants Linux to become another Windows. As Linus said, if Linux ever had 90% market share, it would be sick, and nothing really would have been accomplished. It appears to me that desktop Linux is going in several different directions, with lots of major competitors, with a strong emphasis on interoperability. I’m a little worried about how the business world seems to be embracing GNOME — at least previously you had RedHat with GNOME and SuSE with KDE. Of course, a lot of the Linux deployments outside the US have been based on KDE, so I guess we’ll see what happens.
Rayiner Hashem wrote…
I’m a little worried about how the business world seems to be embracing GNOME — at least previously you had RedHat with GNOME and SuSE with KDE. Of course, a lot of the Linux deployments outside the US have been based on KDE, so I guess we’ll see what happens.
Well maybe they just don’t want to pay TrollTech and instead improve gtk, or maybe mono from that other news item is a factor too.
True, however, it has been said for quite some time that Linux as a corporate desktop solution is ready for certain situations but not all. As for the home desktop, it will depend on whether the ISV’s of the world wake up and realise that there is an emerging market waiting for them to release their products for.
I’m going to bet that its costing them a lot more money to improve GTK+ than to pay TrollTech. $3000 is not a lot of money to a big development house like IBM or Novell. Microsoft’s Visual Studio Enterprise is $2500. Rational Rose runs $10000 – $15000! ClearCase costs $4000. The cost of the tools is dwarfed by the cost of the developer.
Not improved here syndrome?
eom.
I’m going to bet that its costing them a lot more money to improve GTK+ than to pay TrollTech. $3000 is not a lot of money to a big development house like IBM or Novell.
Why pay Trolltechn when IBM could buy out the company, LGPL the whole line and simply employee the current programmers to act as custodians and provide leadership via being the “core” full time programmers..
It was interesting to see him mention Novell. I wonder if IBM plans to put Novell/SUSE Linux on their machines, or if the just mentioned Novell as a sign of the times.
…a sign of the times and $50 million IBM dollars into Novell…;-)
Liked the presentation.
The Linux desktop is the tip of the grid iceberg floating to a computer near you.
R&B
[email protected]
They are probably aware that Qt-style licensing is a slippery slope. If all the libraries you used to develop apps were licensed in this way, it’d be impossible to develop proprietary software for Linux competitively. The platform should be LGPLd throughout, period.
GNOME is also more focussed on the issues that affect corporate deployments, or that’s how it seems to me.
Cool presentation. So, IBM has got 25,000 Linux desktops.
We also know it invested $1 billion into Linux development: $40,000 per desktop. Well, and Linux is not there yet???
I am glad to know Linux can do what Windows can, and that TCP/IP under Linux is very easy, according to presentation.
Tell me what Linux can do that Windows can not.
Can Linux protect me better than Windows from dumb user with root/admin password?
Can Linux free me from patch management?
Is Linux less demanding to hardware than Windows for average home and office user tasks?
Will proprietary software created by third parties like PeopleSoft cost less for Linux than for Windows? Will support for that software cost less?
Should I believe what is said in presentation that only Windows 95/98 users are target for the Linux switch?
Does that mean Win2K/WinXP users are getting a better deal from Microsoft?
The answer is not there.
For me, Russian Guy, Linux must try even harder: facing FREE Windows XP on desktop and FREE Windows 2003 Advanced Server, combined with FREE MS Office 2003 that I can install for FREE on as many computers as I want and get FREE patches and Service Packs from Microsoft- why should I choose FREE Linux with FREE OpenOffice instead?
“We also know it invested $1 billion into Linux development: $40,000 per desktop. Well, and Linux is not there yet???”
Hey smart guy, IBM didn’t pour 1 billion into the Linux desktop. Linux is more than a desktop.
“For me, Russian Guy, Linux must try even harder: facing FREE Windows XP on desktop and FREE Windows 2003 Advanced Server, combined with FREE MS Office 2003 that I can install for FREE on as many computers as I want and get FREE patches and Service Packs from Microsoft- why should I choose FREE Linux with FREE OpenOffice instead?”
Oaarrr, be ye pirates matey?
They are probably aware that Qt-style licensing is a slippery slope. If all the libraries you used to develop apps were licensed in this way, it’d be impossible to develop proprietary software for Linux competitively. The platform should be LGPLd throughout, period.
GNOME is also more focussed on the issues that affect corporate deployments, or that’s how it seems to me.
This hits the “nail on the head.” No one will say this, of course, because of the backlash and the DOS attacks that would result. But the licensing is likely the reason.
My own 0.02 – the “gap” between GNOME and KDE that existed > 18 months ago (at least to KDE heads) has been closed significantly. I still don’t use it, but with the licensing and the “big guns” behind it I think it will be more and more dominant. _And_ with lots of proprietary extensions (which is good and bad depending on your point of view). Now let’s hope that Linux desktop bridges that 1%-3% barrier and then it will snowball.
Also, I think Sun’s policies will either have 1) no effect (if the corporate desktop doesn’t take off) or 2) help the “snowball” effect a great deal, helping quickly bridge to the 3%-5% desktop usage. Time will tell. But the quick geek “write-off” of the Java Desktop is premature – it _may_ save small businesses and medium businesses lots and lots of $ (or Euros, if you like).
A bit off topic, but I wonder if SUSE till port their YaST tools to GTK+?
A bit off topic, but I wonder if SUSE till port their YaST tools to GTK+?
This is a big point IMO.
Linux Desktops with XFree and with a non-existing effective “Control Panel” that has a unified wording and feel will never get to the corporate desktops. Sure, IBM has 25.000 linux desktops but it should be the IBM’s Linux developers desktops they are talking about.
YAST was a good setup tool even when it was text based only (like when I started with it).
Give a secretary/office employee a Linux desktop without a *unified* “Control Panel” with a *unified* feel and she (or he) will never know how to setup the scanner to make some text OCR for a report, or any other setup task that is easier on Windows 98/2000/XP. 3 years behind !
I also agree with Bruce Perens when he says developers should unite around debian to build a standard desktop.
(unfortunately it will not be KDE based – KDE application work better and have a better interface feel than gtk+ and that’s not arguable !)
>> KDE application work better and have a better interface feel than gtk+ and that’s not arguable !)
I disagree. Is that argueing or not? Nothing is “not arguable”, including this statement.
Nothing is “not arguable”, including this statement.
OK, everything is open to debate on computer OS and interfaces,
but … if you ask many long time Linux users you will have that answer many times (KDE works, at least, a little better for desktop custom apps – see koffice, stellarium, konqueror *file manager* (this one is really not arguable IMO – it is so much better and faster to work than nautilis – against abiword and gnumeric), etc.
GIMP OT Hand is a fine gtk app, the exception confirms the genneral rule.
I only wish that the debian unified desktop (if it would exist) was based on KDE. Because it’s better IMO, but everybody can argue that.
>> The Linux Desktop is 3 years behind Linux
I meant … behind Windows (it’s weekend time
>> I want and get FREE patches and Service Packs from Microsoft- why should I choose FREE Linux with FREE OpenOffice instead?”
You still have to install Microsoft service packs to be on the safe side and use a (ok this are also FREE) firewall.
>> Does that mean Win2K/WinXP users are getting a better deal from Microsoft?
As a customer from both, I get a better deal with my win2000 (I run it in 2 dual pentium + 1 Athlon PCs w/ ethernet load balacing for experimental 3D rendering – I’m a little crazy –
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/howitworks/cluster/in…
) than with Linux, for now.
In several of these Linux for the Desktop discussions, some people have said that Linux needs one standard GUI. Well, it looks like several major companies are focusing on Gnome. Does this cause sour grapes for the KDE camp? Probably. May be the companies ought to use KDE instead. But where would that leave Gnome?
I have said this before but I will say it again. Linux does not need a standard GUI but many GUIs that follow the same standard. You can not satisfy everyone with one GUI. Ask Microsoft users which GUI they liked best, Win98 or WinXP?
Programmers will not work on something they do not like unless they are getting paid to work on it.
I use Fluxbox instead of Gnome or KDE. Fluxbox just fits with they way I do things. But I do not think every one should use Fluxbox. Use what you like. Support it, even if it is just an email saying thanks for a great product.
I agree. Both GNOME/KDE have a ‘Start’ menu and the Close control next to Maximize control for easly closing when you didn’t intend to, so that any Windoze should feel right at home on them
My perference is for the very light and efficient DEs such as ROX-Filer and XFCE. And on the subject os ROX, also check out Zero Install – this is the way application management should be done.
On the GTK vs QT thing: So, why exactly are most the GOOD multimedia apps for Linux – GIMP, Sodipodi, SoundTracker, K3D, XMMS, Gxine, Gstreamer – GTK+? When NOatrun (or whatever that KDE thing is called) can hardly work with Xrender?
>> KDE application work better and have a better interface feel than gtk+ and that’s not arguable !)
I don’t know waht are you talking about, I hate KDE UI and I love GNOME UI, to me GNOME > KDE.
“For me, Russian Guy, Linux must try even harder: facing FREE Windows XP on desktop and FREE Windows 2003 Advanced Server, combined with FREE MS Office 2003 that I can install for FREE on as many computers as I want and get FREE patches and Service Packs from Microsoft- why should I choose FREE Linux with FREE OpenOffice instead?”
Well, lets see…there is no such thing as most of the FREE items you mention..
Windows XP Pro: $200
WIndows 2003 AS: $1000
MS Office 2003: $550
And to top it off all 3 of those products can only be installed on ONE machine, with the exact same costs for each additional machine. So if you have Windows XP and Office on each machine, the cost is $750 per machine.
Why would you have a secretary setup a scanner ? That’s what IT is for ! I would never allow a non-IT person access to the control panel at work whether it be in Windows or Linux ( SuSE, Mandrake, etc… ) because it only creates more problems then it is worth.
Russian guy does have a good point. In most of the developing world, ok, most of the world outside North America and Europe, the use of pirated software is prevalent and not regulated. Linux on the Desktop HAS TO PROVE that it is better and easier to use than a “free” copy of Windows and associated microsoft software (the latest no doubt).
It annoys me that Linux developers try to compete with commercial companies. Listen: you are destroying bussiness! Sun will probably be the first casualty. With no commercial companies left, there will be no innovation. I propose the following “constitution” for open source developers:
1) I will freely license my code for use in commercial products (ie, use BSD license not GPL.)
2) If a commercial equivalent exists for what I’m developing, I will not try to market it as a replacement for the commercial product.
3) My software will not be targeted at the average consumer (read: no easy to use UI, no easy installation process).
So basically, you can develop research software, specialized software, etc. But please, if no-one buys MS Office and d/ls openoffice instead, innovation in word processors and spreadsheets will stop. We do not want this.
No one wants to buy crap applications where the only changes in versions is the fancy eye-candy of a GUI skin. OSS pushes lazy arse companies and developers to develop better apps or be replaced. If you can’t take the heat get out the kitchen you lazy bastard.
P.S. Sun is not going to die because like IBM, Sun is already making money of their Linux project before their distro has even hit the streets. Only people scared of Linux, OSS, GPL are MS and their gang of leechers.
Lol – great troll.
“It annoys me that Linux developers try to compete with commercial companies.”
Our capitalist and (ostensibly) free market system is built around competition.
“Listen: you are destroying bussiness!”
Then those businesses could not compete, and thus deserved to fail.
“With no commercial companies left”
Wow, you obviously don’t have much faith in the abilities of the proprietary software industry you seem to care so much about…
“We do not want this.”
Tough. There’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. If you don’t like OSS, just don’t use it.
No one wants to buy crap applications where the only changes in versions is the fancy eye-candy of a GUI skin. OSS pushes lazy arse companies and developers to develop better apps or be replaced. If you can’t take the heat get out the kitchen you lazy bastard.
The main priority of a corporation is to increase shareholder value, not to develop software. If a company has to spend all its money on software development, then it is not a responsible company. Open source is basically like a sweatshop; so it is an unfair and unethical tactic to decrease the value of established corporations.
“Open source is basically like a sweatshop”
Rofl! What crack are you smoking? If sweatshops were *volunteer* labour as OSS is, no-one would find them objectionable in the slightest.
It’s all volunteer work you troll !! People coding because they love to code !
James the troll wants these companies to be supported like welfare mothers being supported by the goverment because they are to stupid to compete and learn from their mistakes.
wait!! I thought you said that only Companies can innovate in software…but then out come around and say that a corporation is only around to make money, not to develop software. if that is true, then how can they innovate if they do not spend a considerable amount of time and money on coming up with new innovations?
you need to think straight kid, you seem to not know what you are thinking at all.
James the troll wants these companies to be supported like welfare mothers being supported by the goverment because they are to stupid to compete and learn from their mistakes.
Well, I am not surprised. Like most so-called “freemarketers”, James is all for freemarket but allow the government to bail out inefficient industries. The US steel industry is a prime example; let the blasted thing die. There are many steel foundaries out there who are turning a profit.
20 years ago NZ moved away from subsidies and protectionism, here we (NZ), 20 years later rated the 3rd most liberal economy, businesses moving from Australia and the US to NZ, lowest unemployment in the OECD and growth at a average of around 3-4%, oh, and most importantly, a government surplus.
Sure, I like opensource, but I am also a libertarian, let the market take its course and let the “invisible” hand dictate which companies die and which survive.
“Why would you have a secretary setup a scanner ? That’s what IT is for ! I would never allow a non-IT person access to the control panel at work whether it be in Windows or Linux ( SuSE, Mandrake, etc… ) because it only creates more problems then it is worth.”
If it is too difficult for a reasonably intelligent person to “set up” a scanner, there is something seriously wrong with the OS. All you have to do is plug it in and install the driver from a disk.
How do you think people use scanners at home?
BTW a secretary is a person with considerable responsibility in most offices. I think you mean a typist.
“But please, if no-one buys MS Office and d/ls openoffice instead, innovation in word processors and spreadsheets will stop.”
It is hard to see why this would be so. If Microsoft Office faded from the market, the authors of free replacements will no longer be limited to having to imitate it. They can try new ideas out without complaints that “Office doesn’t work like that”.
What innovations would you like to see in word processing?
When I read about the engagement of IBM in Linux for Desktop I felt very excited, because of the great software IBM has in its portfolio which could be ported to Linux. AmiWord, Lotus Notes (not the WINE-version), VoiceView only to call the most famous ones. No way, IBM just does what HP, Sun, Novel and other do, they take Evolution, OpenOffice and Gaim and call this the desktop solution for a limited desktop user. This reminds me a bit of an oriental bazar where several dealers sit in a row and offer always the same stuff to mostly the same prices. What’s the point? Where’s the difference? I want to see Amiword with full support of *.swx format, VoiceView which I can use with all office-programs, full functional Lotus Notes and so on. That would be a real commitment to Linux on Desktops.
Anton
>Russian Guy, where are you from? (translation from Russian)
Well, to tell the truth: I am from Russia, and currently work in Canada.
I do believe too that software must be free and knowledge belongs to people, but I also believe that software developers must be paid for the job they do. Ideally, even if you voluntary contributed a line or two of code to the open source project, you should get back a dollar or two in exchange.
Everything else is either volunteerism or communism.
I also live the way I think: I work as salaried employee but don’t mind to use Microsoft and other commercial software for free, in Russia. In Canada it is provided to me by employer- effectively free, too.
Da zdravstvujet Tovarish Linus !!!
Seriusly
I believe in Free Software/OSS
People all over ther World make those OSS programs.
And OSS isn’t their job. It’s their Hobby.
Ppl must have an alternative.
Now, everywhere i look i see a Microsoft Logo…
I want to hear “What OS u would like to be installed on your PC?” someday. And to see some other logos: Tux, Mac Face… whatever
I don’t mind Windows, everything has a place in this world[even if this place is a junkyard], but i want to make choises.
Many ppl buy a PC with Windows preinstalled, and don’t know that there are other OS’, maybe that will suite them better…
[bad spelling]
P.S. That sofware is not “free” because they expect you to produce work using it ! You don’t work to your full potential then say good-bye to that software and to your job. Then you’ll be stuck having to pirate software like you proudly said you use to do. This of course indicates a serious lack of morals as well IMHO.