Remember Turbolinux? Less than 5 years ago, it was a fixture in the forefront of the Linux landscape along with Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, Debian, and the now defunct Storm Linux. Later this week, Turbolinux will release their new desktop distribution, dubbed “10D.” The following is a first look at Turbolinux’s return to the fray.
Background
It’s no secret that Turbolinux is really focusing on Asian nations with this release. They are helping China move to a digital infrastructure. The new distribution’s codename is “Suzuka.” It offers, even in the installer, to run Simplified Chinese, Japanese, or Korean. It’s been available in Asia for some time, and isn’t yet available in the US. Turbolinux is the first major distribution to release a version “10” of their release, although it should be noted that to the best of my knowledge, there is no TurboLinux 9D. That said, it ships with modern components such as kde 3.1.3, glibc 2.3.2, XFree86 4.3, and gcc 3.3.1, not to mention a hot-off-the-press kernel.
Installation
Generally, when reviewing a new distribution, I try to stay away from going into too much detail with the installer. The Turbolinux install, however, is a unique program called “Mongoose.” Mongoose has a lot of the look of the new Mandrake installation but the feel of Red Hat’s Anaconda (it may even be based on Anaconda code). The Installer offers three choices – Standard install, Turbo install, or Upgrade. As you can imagine, the turbo install zips by many choices offering “sensible” defaults. It auto-partitions without the ability to view it, it auto-configures almost everything except the root password, and it selects to install everything. A much more practical choice is the standard install, which is an attractive graphical checklist that scrolls through. My complaints with the installer are more constructive criticisms – the location to add a user in the installer is not very obvious, so much so that I completely missed it during my first swing. Secondly, the TFDisk tool included to resize your disks is fairly complex — not so much for a seasoned user, but certainly for a new user. As an admin, these things are not a big deal. The one thing that really stands out as interesting is that when prompted to create a new file system, your options include ext2, swap, PPC PrepBoot, RAID, VFAT, RAW I/O, all the common journaled file systems, and NTFS. Yes, NTFS. Creating an NTFS partition during installation results in mounting errors on boot. I’m not sure why this option is present, but it certainly is intriguing.
I have to say that I was impressed with the installation routine of TurboLinux. I’ve done this many times before, and my nerves are shot from these “four click installs.” I want to configure my system by hand, and Mongoose is a nice tool for doing just that. If I wanted a four click install, that’s an option too.
First Use
Having selected Gnome 2.4 as my default desktop (KDE 3.13 and XFCE are also included), I booted up and attempted a login. It immediately reported errors. Gnome was unable to login. I would later find this to be the case with XFCE as well. XFree would immediately crash on login. Fortunately, KDE, the default desktop for Turbolinux, worked perfectly. I installed TurboLinux three times on two systems for this review, and the second installation did not produce Gnome errors. I’m not sure what the problem was, but my elementary XFree86Config hacking did not fix things.
KDE has been heavily customized by Turbolinux. You’ll notice right off the bat, a customized, Crystal-like icon set that also has some icons that are so similar to XP icons that if you told me they were directly copied, I’d believe you. You’ll also notice “My Computer,” “MyDocument,” and “Windows Network” icons on your desktop, a la LindowsOS (“MyDocument” is a link to a folder in your home directory also called “MyDocument”). The desktop is attractive and consice. Like more and more distributions, Turbolinux has significantly cleaned up the “Kde” menu. In fact, it’s one of the more logical layouts I’ve seen. They’ve taken nearly everything out of the first drawer, similar to what Microsoft did with XP, in favor of computer tasks, and placed all programs in a subfolder. The default desktop also includes a link to “Printer Jobs,” a tool for monitoring your print queue. While clearly out of place on the desktop, it’s a great tool for a user. Perhaps better stashed in the K menu, it’s a nice touch. The only glaring error off the bat is that what I assume should have been a “My Documents” folder is erroneously referred to as “MyDocument” throughout the entire OS.
Gnome has also been customized, though to a much lesser extent. It, too, boasts the My Computer and “My Document” links. If anything, it may be a little skimpy on the applications. It uses a theme called “distro,” which I believe it just a tweaked Geramik. It also uses the XP icons.
Turbolinux found and configured my USB wheel mouse with no problem. This is also the first distribution I’ve used where I’ve noted bluetooth prominently displayed as one of the services. TurboLinux has de-emphasized the concept of “home” in favor of “My Documents.” This has been interesting, as it also parallels Windows concepts more closely. Sadly, the fonts in both KDE and Gnome are less than impressive. While they appear to be anti-aliased, in most places they still seem jagged. By contrast, view Fedora’s default Gnome installation and see how gorgeous fonts should look.
Digging Deeper
Turbolinux uses RPM as its package format. Included is a program called CuikIn which is a graphical RPM handler much like GnoRPM. You’ll find two of the three or four English errors in the distro right on the front of that screen – CuikIn InstallWizzard and “Please entry install package.” These errors slipped through QA and are more damaging to the reputation than the usability. It’s tough to be credible when you having spelling and grammar errors on the front of your flagship application. Finding TurboLinux RPMs, by the way, is next to impossible, save for the ones on the CD. The good news, however, you’ll find that the underlying components for apt-get are installed. The sources.list has a comment seen below that explains that Turbolinux doesn’t fully support apt yet, but it’s nice to see it coming along. I’d imagine Turbolinux will have to set up their own repository before they can promote this feature, and that will be a great boon for software management in Turbolinux.
Turbolinux uses a much hyped program called TurboUpdate to keep the distrobution up to date. Claiming it looks and feels like WindowsUpdate had me excited. Unfortunately, TurboUpdate does not work yet as ftp.turbolinux.com is not responding to TU requests yet. As it is, there is no update tool. When this comes online, I’d be excited to try it out. Another interesting component is that Turbolinux comes, by default, running kernel 2.6-test5_2. The TL folks claim that when 2.6-final is released it will be a simple update via TurboUpdate, which is exciting.
I was surprised, when customizing the system, to find the new Crystal SVG icons included in KDE. They are, if I recall, going to be the default for KDE 3.2. Applying this icon set, unfortunately, leaves a bunch of “unknowns” on the desktop, as the Crystal SVG set has no “My Computer,” “MyDocument,” or “WindowsNetwork.” Changing themes in Gnome does the same thing. TurboLinux developers should hard code these icons rather than making them part of the desktop theme, since changing the theme at all will break them.
Software-wise, TL is a little light in included software. Recognizing that RPMs for TL are not common, more software should be available out of box. For example, there is only one of many popular programs, one FTP client (KBear) and and one IM client (Kopete). Some essential programs are missing altogether, like an office suite or an HTML IDE (only KDevelop is present, or KWrite, if that’s acceptable to you). On the other hand, other key elements are present. Kaffiene, the default media player, played all my media files (wmv, asx, asf, mpg, etc.) with no additional plugins and XMMS handled my mp3s.
Windows Interoperability was very good. I was pleased to see that TL wasted no time in jumping on my Windows network via Samba 2.28. I was able to browse Windows shares with no effort at all, simple point and click in my workgroup at home, and at work, a simple domain login did the job. This is refreshing. I also noted that TL will mount your NTFS volumes under /dev/winntX and your fat32 volumes as /dev/windowsX. Both are read only, which is a pain, but not a problem. I had file sharing working with less than 5 minutes effort.
In reality, though, Turbolinux is plagued by many problems. My second install would not allow me to su up to root. Visiting a new terminal via Ctrl+Alt+F1 would allow the root login though, so that ruled out password problems. Since I was essentially unable to do anything as my user “adam,” I had to log into X as root, which worked, but was less than ideal. Between this and the first installation problem with not launching Gnome or XFCE, there is still work to be done to get things to run properly in the defaults. Anyone can break a system, but it should not be broken out of the box.
Conclusions
It’s hard for me to sum up Turbolinux, because although I was plagued with problems, for some reason I really liked me experience with it. While Turbolinux has issues today, it’s got some core concepts that I think put it, philosophically, above other distributions. While many Linux die hard hold steady to age-old UNIX methods, TurboLinux has embraced some Windows ideas that have carried over well. The My Computer icon, for example, is a very comfortable “location” for browsing your computer.
With a concentration on the Asian market, Turbolinux may be strategically positioning itself for a very large userbase. The arrogance of English speaking users has led most of us to believe that if it isn’t huge in the US, it isn’t “a player” in the market. In fact, the Asian market is ripe for Linux right about now. I suspect that a large footing in Asia could provide the capital necessary to fight for an American and European userbase right when Linux is reaching maturity for the home desktop. Either way, it’s somethig to keep your eye on.
Further, Turbolinux is a good deal at the right price. At only $29, its ability to mesh into a corporate environment has got to exceed that of many other desktop Linuxes. Not to mention that TurboLinux support options are available and also inexpensive. I’d stress that deployment in a business would probably be enjoyable. The learning curve between Windows and Turbolinux, I anticipate, is much less than a migration to SUSE Linux, Red Hat, Debian with stock KDE/Gnome, FreeBSD, or any other major distro with the possible exceptions of Lycoris and LindowsOS.
In short, Turbolinux 10D is probably not the ideal for a home user, but is certainly able to stand on its own merit. It has some issues to overcome, especially for deployment on a variety of PCs like you’d find on varied systems like home desktops. In my estimation, it’s a very fitting work desktop, ideal for standard tasks, but not for a flexible system that a power user’s home PC might be. I expect that, if the developers continue to invest in the English side of things, that 11D could be a serious competitor to the desktop distributions out there now.
Installation: 9/10 (detailed, but non-confusing Mongoose installer)
Hardware Support: 9/10 (found all hardware successfully)
Ease of Use: 8/10
Features: 7/10 (not enough software available)
Credibility: 6.5/10 (needs more QA work with English)
Speed: 8.5/10
Overall: 8.0
The Turbolinux install, however, is a unique program called “Mongoose.” Mongoose has a lot of the look of the new Mandrake installation but the feel of Red Hat’s Anaconda (it may even be based on Anaconda code).
Would it be possible to say that “Mongoose” is an “Anaconda Killer?”
Kudos to the Turbolinux people for this gag! Quite tongue in cheek.
I’m glad to hear that Turbo is still around. With the lack of mention in the last couple of years, I had feared they had gone under.
One of the first servers I ever set up was using TurboLinux Server. It had the potential to really shake up RedHat at that point in time.
eom
I can’t stand Linux distros that try to look like Windows or Mac. Just leave the damned default KDE/GNOME desktop. If nothing, make it look better with customized themes. *sighs*
Yeah…yeah…they need to please the masses. :rollseyes:
I am impressed by what I heard, Turbo Linux has a very promissing distribution there.
I would suggest that they make a few changes however as I would like to see the My Computer desktop icon use the monitor icon that would be found in any complete icon set and I would like the MyDocument icon to be changed back to the home folder icons which would also be found in most icon sets. I would like the My Computer icon to be renamed to Computer and the MyDocument icon to be renamed to either Home or Home folder and I would like to see the english improved a little and the bugs fixed.
If Turbo Linux made these changes and got apt working then I would gladly buy a copy of their distribution, it sure beats paying over a $120 CAD for a copy of Windows XP Home upgrade.
As one study showed (which has been quoted to death by gnome zealots, yes Im one myself, but I just forgot the quote), that it was harder for new users to use KDE because it was so uch simmilar to windows, but different around the edges.
So because it is mmore simmilar to windows, dosnt mean it will ease migration.
did you add your computer’s loop back address to the /etc/hosts file?
As one study showed (which has been quoted to death by gnome zealots, yes Im one myself, but I just forgot the quote), that it was harder for new users to use KDE because it was so uch simmilar to windows, but different around the edges.
So because it is mmore simmilar to windows, dosnt mean it will ease migration.
I’ve heard a lot of people say KDE is similar to Windows but in fact the only similarity I’ve noticed is that it has Kicker on the bottom similar to the toolbar (or whatever you would call it) in Windows.
I feel compelled once again to mention that Windows and KDE ane by far not the only desktops to either have the toolbar on the bottom or make it possible to have the toolbar on the bottom.
I was using Linux back when Gnome was 1.x and Kde was 1.x and back then both had the toolbars on the bottom, the toolbar can also be put on the bottom in BeOS, SEAL (FreeDOS GUI), MinuetOS has it there by default (if I’m thinking of the right OS here) and IceWM also has it on the bottom by default.
Now the only other similarty that isn’t directly related to Qt (which only has minor similarities) is the right click menu’s on the desktop which I am going to say right now are also found in Gnome and several other desktop’s and Operating systems.
Perhaps it isn’t a mistake, just clever innuendo.
I’d say this sounds like a good start. After being out of the (at least western) Linux market for a while, it sounds like they’re making a comeback with a product that has a good deal of potential. This sounds more like what I think it will take to convert home users to Linux. Now, let’s get QA all over it, squish some bugs, and I think this will be one killer distro.
did you add your computer’s loop back address to the /etc/hosts file?
Uh, no. Doesn’t it seem a little strange that you’d need to do that at all?
For the record, /etc/hosts does identify the loopback IP.
i totally agree…
here are my thoughts on the subject in a little rant i posted to my personal site here:
http://www.phatvibez.net/commentary.php?ID=notWindows
Linux needs to be “Different” not a poor knockoff, and Different does not mean hard to use either….
Linux does not have to be “made” to look like Linux to be considered “easy to use”
i meant…
Linux does not have to be “made” to look like Windows to be considered “easy to use”
<self> stupid, stupid, stupid</self>
How about the arrogance of people that stereotype!!!!
It’s not a stereotype, it’s a generalization, and it’s not an inaccurate one. Surveys have been done on this – US people think Red Hat *is* Linux.
By the way, born in CT, lived in DC, now live in FL. I’m an English speaker, I know what I’m saying. If you are truly “offended” by this, you need to stop being naive and grow a thicker skin.
Linux needs to be “Different” not a poor knockoff,
Actually, Linux needs to recognize that different for the sake of different is not progress. Good ideas are good ideas, regardless of origin. I wish Linux fans would not decide an idea sucks just because Microsoft likes it.
Linux needs to be “Different” not a poor knockoff, and Different does not mean hard to use either….
Linux does not have to be “made” to look like Linux to be considered “easy to use”
Some problems only have one right answer, if it is to make the Menu similar and a few desktop icons similar then I support that decision, I do however also welcome alternative ideas so long as they are equally as good.
I havn’t tried Turbo Linux yet but when I tried Lycoris I almost forgot how to use Linux because everything was so similar to Windows and manual configuration was out of the question because when I tried it the included GUI config tools would mess up the settings if I did anything manually. I’m hoping Turbo Linux has a happy medium.
There is another Turbolinux 10D “first look” at LWN, published 2 weeks ago:
http://lwn.net/Articles/55940/
I recently spent time in Asia and Turbolinux was definitely the largest Linux distro in that region (esp, in Japan and China).
Westerners seem to think Red Hat, SuSE and maybe Mandrake as the only major players. Go into any software store in those countries and you’ll see a large variety of Turbo products displayed everywhere and very little (if any) Red Hat or SuSE. China is where everyone’s betting on major future growth, so they’re in a good position IMHO.
Hmm, we were told by Turbolinux that this would be the first review in english to be published.
My experience is exactly the opposite – I spent some time in bookstores around Japan and all I saw was dozens and dozens of books about Red Hat, but maybe one or two about Turbolinux. Same with software stores. I’ve never been to China, so I can’t comment, but in some of the much richer Asian countries, like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore or Malaysia, Turbolinux is virtually unknown. It used to be reasonably popular some 3 – 4 years ago, but no more. SUSE is also pretty much unknown around here. It’s all Red Hat (especially for the enterprise) and, to some extent, Mandrake.
>How about the arrogance of people that stereotype!!!!
>It’s not a stereotype, it’s a generalization, and it’s not an inaccurate one. Surveys have been done on this – US people think Red Hat *is* Linux.
By the way, born in CT, lived in DC, now live in FL. I’m an English speaker, I know what I’m saying. If you are truly “offended” by this, you need to stop being naive and grow a thicker skin.
Woah, I was only kidding.
Suggestion, next time just say “The ignorance of US users…” or “Most people in the US don’t get exposed to…”. You don’t have to portray US/English speakers as arrogant.
We have a government that does that for us already.
Cheers
I would have appreciated if someone would have tested one of THE Asian Linux distros in an ASIAN language.
I’d be especially interested in information like:
a) how good is the Japanese input method (is it intelligent, is it good with dealing with placenames/people’s names, is there an easy way to find Kanren-moji etc.)
b) How good are the Japanese fonts (how many characters do they include etc.), also is the anti-aliasing for Japanese fonts working properly.
c) Are there any other double byte issues
I still consider Storm Linux to have been the most innovative distro for the time. I mean, today all these distro basically have the exact same stuff. I remember it was the first distro I installed, and it detected all my hardware. Nowadays, its a different story.
It seems that Turbo Linux has zero consistency between releases. I wish they’d have stayed with their first desktop; a nice modified Afterstep theme with a little admin panel and a black and yellow colorscheme. If they’d stuck with that and kept it up to date, they’d really have something today.
I had a subscription to it back then, and they pulled the subscription service, went crazy on the Far East, and their product stopped being interesting.
What they were then is sort of what Libranet and Vector are now; a nice twist on the usual.
People, can we get a grip on this please? It’s _XFree86_, never XFree or X-Free or any other derivative that is sometimes used. The 86 is part of the name, like the ‘s’ at the end of ‘OSNews’.
This was a pretty decent review, but it always looks amateurish when writers make such elementary mistakes. Hint: just because kids on Gentoo forums may use ‘Redhat’, ‘SuSe’ and ‘XFree’ etc. doesn’t mean they’re in any way correct.
M
Guys, take a look deeper at the K menu. It’s the best logically devided menu I have seen in my life. Definitely gonna try that layout over here on MDK for my parents.
Grammar errors are funny
I think they should hire some english native speaker.
Otherwise KUDOS !
People, can we get a grip on this please? It’s _XFree86_
Did you know what was meant? Is there anyone who doesn’t know that “X” and “Xfree” refer to XFree86? Ok then – stop being such a stickler and loosen up.
Pray tell why Fedora got an 8.5 on the install and Turbo got a 9?
-Erwos
“Is there anyone who doesn’t know that “X” and “Xfree” refer to XFree86?”
Eh? You’re obviously not very bright, so let me clue you in. X does not refer to XFree86. Where on earth did you get that idea from? X is a protocol — see http://www.x.org — and XFree86 is an separate implementation.
There are lots of versions of X other than XFree86, but evidently you don’t know that.
And yep, while most people would understand that ‘Xfree’ refers to XFree86, that’s besides the point. It’s still wrong and looks unprofessional in reviews. Most people would understand ‘Linnux’ and ‘FREEbsd’ and ‘Mcrosoft’ but does that make it right?
M
First it was Mandrake 9.2, now TubroLinux 10D is providing a video player that does not need additional codecs. I hope this trend continues with other commercial Linux distros. I wonder are they using the windows codecs or have they figured out a way to play window media files without the windows codecs.
My best guess is that they are using the windows codecs, but because the DMCA is only US law it enables them, Mandrake and TubroLinux, to include them in their distros because both companies are based outside of the US.
Has anyone been able to play a divx file, using the latest version of divx, in Kaffiene?
“Mandrake and TubroLinux, to include them in their distros because both companies are based outside of the US.”
Their products, however, can be not allowed into the US, which, last I checked, was a substantial market.
-Erwos
I’ve also seen that survey and, after living in the US for more than 20 years, I honestly don’t believe it. Sure, you’ll find a number of uneducated dimwits here, but I have yet to meet someone who couldn’t find Australia on a map.
I’m not a turbolinux user but here’s my take (or mostly simple translation of what they are saying) according to their advertisement.
Trubolinux 10D puts its most emphasis on completion of Japanese language environment and Windows connectivity.
While this review deals with the basic version of 10D, their most value comes from the full version which costs approximately US$140 bundled with commercial software products including:
ATOK X (Japanese input method second to none)
Ricoh TrueType Japanese fonts
StarSuite 7
Acronis Partition Expert 2003 (for squeezing Windows partition and making a room for linux)
Moreover, Japanese file names (including notolious hankaku-kana) in a shared Windows filesystem are shown properly in turbolinux environment (they claim that such feature in linux environment is first realized by turbolinux 10D).
Also, more than 2,000 drivers for inkjet and laserjet printers are provided.
FYI, another option for better japanese environment is Vine linux.
This one provides carefully organized and nicely integrated japanese environment costs around US$160.
I have no idea which distro is better than the other in terms of japanese environment.
But IMO turbolinux 10D surely is something worth to look at.
Adam, thanks for the brief mention of Storm Linux – it brought back some great memories of working with the crew at Stormix. Good times, indeed.
I know it does, but for some reason, If you use DHCP for your IP, you must have an entry for your computer with the loop back AGAIN.
If they really wanted to look like XP, they would use XPde. I myself, see no resemblence to windows at all, it just looks like KDE.
XFree(86) runs not only on x86 but on other platforms as well. e.g: on all platforms of debian. Hence it was renamed from XFree86 to XFree. Check http://xfree.org
The “my computer” icon is a bad UI idea, IMHO. The main problem with it is that your desktop is usually covered with other stuff (running programs.
Better suggestions: browser your system through the menus. I believe that this is done now in e.g. default KDE.
The “my computer” icon is a bad UI idea, IMHO. The main problem with it is that your desktop is usually covered with other stuff (running programs.
Agreed. I have always been a fan of having the storage icons on the desktop, ala Workbench/AmigaOS, Atari and MacOS. The network drives, however, can be listed under something like, “Mounted Network Drives”.
Regarding browsing through menus, I disagree. If you have ever seen the average user get confused navigating menus, it would put you off putting menus into any application.
Dude, I can’t believe somebody not only stold your handle but apparently paid for it too.
|Hmm, we were told by Turbolinux that this would be the first |review in english to be published.
Maybe they meant that this is the first review of the english version. The LWN review is based on the japanese offering – or so they say.
This was the first reporter to receive the 10D product that will be sold in the U.S. (international version) Other reporters reviewed and wrote about our Japanease edition.