It looks like the G3’s days are over, as Apple announced today new iBooks and eMacs with a range of enhancements, including G4 processors. The new machines also sport Airport Extreme, Bluetooth, USB 2.0, and slot-loading combo drives. All models ship with Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther). The 12″ iBook gets a 800Mhz G4 while the 14″ models get a choice of 933Mhz or 1Ghz. The eMac is 1 Ghz.
This means that powerBooks will get a boost next!
Woohoo! G5 powerbooks soon!
Now there is one more reason to switch!
Apple needed a strong offering at the low end and now they have it.
Why are the eMacs so cheap? Does anyone have any comments about the eMacs? Would they be worth buying?
The eMacs are cheap becasue they have CRT monitors. They cost about the same as an entry level PC from Dell, comparably equipped, so I wouldn’t say they’re cheap, just approprately priced considering their market and capability. If I were on a tight budget, I might want to look at a used 1.25 Ghx G4 tower, though. It’s nice to have the extra expansion and be able to use other monitors. Unless you’re in a classroom setting where it’s nice to have everything in one unit with no cables to trip over.
The cheap version is well worth buying at $799+more_RAM, yes. Its main drawback is that it doesn’t have cache at all, but other than that, it is an ok machine for the price.
The iBooks now start at $1099, while the previous G3 range started at $999. I hope Apple lowers the price on them soon, they are a good buy too.
Thanks, David. Do you know where I could find used G4 towers? Is ebay the best/only solution?
with a 2.2ghz amd athlon, 256mb ram, 40gb hd, combo dvd/cd-rw, 17″ crt, ink jet printer, windows xp home, and el cheapo speakers at Circuit City….add dozens of flavors of linux free if so inclined.
its better than a g3, but as all the g5 versus opteron, pentium 4, xeon, amd athlon, athlon mp, centrino, athlon fx, g4 benchmarks show, the g4 is terribly slow…especially in sigle cpu setups.
Panther may be faster, but OS X still has a lethargic user interface.
And don’t forget you get to buy a new Mac OS every year for $129.
I was hoping they would update the iBook line. the only reason I wanted a powerbook was for the G4. now I can get the awesome iBook for a grand and I get a combo drive 🙂
I want to buy one now though…to bad I have to wait until next year.
oh ok. Thanks, Eugenia.
I’m in the market for a desktop and I’ve been checking out Macs lately. I don’t want something too expensive because I don’t know if it will be what I’m looking for.
you get a SuperDrive computer for a grand…not bad.
about the iBooks though, the reason they increased the price of the base model is because the CD-ROM only version they made available only to education. so, all they did was drop the CD-ROM version and make the combo drive version the base model.
that PC you just bought is Cheap…the price is cheap, the hardware is also very cheaply made (probably a lot of referb parts) and as far as OS X’s sluggishness, get a life.
as far as the buying a new OS every year…no one makes you upgrade. if you want to wait until the year after, then you wait.
it seems you have a problem with paying for upgrades and new technologies that make the OS worth buying.
and if you have no problem with that, why do you care about the upgrade at all?
KEEP IT CIVILIZED around here, or you are all going to be moderated down or deleted. NO flamebaits or trolling please.
yeah, the only thing on my 400 MHz g4 tower that is sluggish is resizing of a window. no different than in windows XP on my 1.1 GHz celery Laptop. but one thing that is better in XP that OSX does not allow…you can turn off the effects so when you resize you get a frame that you can resize rather than the window as you go.
but if you turn on all the effects, XP is just as “sluggish” if you have some weird need to cal it that.
I’ve been wanting a iBook for college, I think I’m going to get one now. I can’t wait for the day that I can just download a new computer or faster processor…….please somoene start inventing……….:)
I have a 400 Mhz G4 tower and it runs great thank-you-very-much.
They are still (it says for a limited time) selling G3 iBooks, for $899. I paid like $250 more than this for a 100mHz slower machine in January… doh.
KOMPRESSOR
how come the powerbooks aren’t any cheaper?!
bastards!
because they have to maintain price points during the transition, otherwise when the G5 powerbooks come out in a few months or so people will get pissed and claim they are raising prices.
You have to expect that next machine will be more powerful, faster, cheaper than what you just bought. When I will say “Doh” is when they finally release a laptop with a 3 button mouse.
I know this off topic, but the day I have to explain to my wife that my powerbook is going on ebay because I need 2 more button is going to be rough.
799, for a combo drive e-mac and 1099 for a super drive e-mac.
“eMac at 1Ghz is comparible to a Dell PC with the same specs ?” What new Dell comes with only 1Ghz processer?
I payed $800 Canadian for a 2200Mhz Intel
Kingston 512MB DDR RAM
60GB 7500RPM MAXTOR HD
ASUS MB
GeForce FX 5600
DVD/CDRW Drive 40/16/48 MSI
and all the rest of the parts and as you can see these are not really cheap parts at all with the exception of the built on sound card that I at least had the option to add a new one and disable the built on one. To top this all off I can add many more cards to the case and play many more games and run aot more software at much faster speeds than the poor 1Ghz eMac user will. Thanks I’m done now.
I had been struggling with a dilemma because I need a laptop for law school. The PB had the specs but no battery life. The iBook had the battery life but fell really short on processor and graphics. I really think this iBook update hit my sweet spot! I can’t wait to get one!
And of course, that $800 includes all the licensing fees for your OS right? Apple’s come with licensed versions of OS X, iLife and a slew of third party programs. If you factor in the cost for an XP Pro license and licenses for software similar to that which you get with an Apple, the Apple starts looking really competitive from a price standpoint.
Good…but I’m still left wanting more. It appears there is no superdrive option available for any of the ibooks. FSB still not fast enough.
how many PC users are going to keep beating this horse?
I happily use 1 800 MHz PC running XP that I custom built (if I am going to worry about add-ons, I will build it to my specs not take what dell gives me) you can not tell a difference when using it at home…I compile programs for school and play games, etc.
if I was doing something that was really processor intensive, then I would care, but even video is not that big a deal.
the MHz myth is that you notice a difference between 1GHz and 3 GHz. you DON’T.
you will get more mileage out of placing a 7200 RPM drive and more memory into a computer than you will see out of adding GHz.
hell, most of the computers time is spent waiting for data outside the CPU after you go above 500MHz.
you seem to want a powerbook at an iBook price.
either get a powerbook with all the nice things you like, or stop acting like the iBook is lacking, because it is not. it is for consumers to do consumer type stuff on, not amateur video makers to make videos on, and I would suggest that you get an eMac for that anyway since a laptop is a bit cumbersome for those type of activities.
I would not even get a powerbook to do video on. I like a desktop for that. more power, better mice, etc. if you need portability, you don’t need to burn a DVD.
You can’t compare apples and oranges. I don’t advise anyone I know to buy those cheap $400 to $500 PCs. They’re junk! My mother has a $400 HP that’s a total nightmare to work on. They bascially stuff the cheapest hardware they can find into those boxes. Some of isn’t even new.
Those things are horrid. You can’t compare those to a Mac, nor can you even compare one of those to a quality PC.
Unless you’re building a system yourself, you’re going to get total garbage for that kind of money.
And I have MANY years of hardware experience. I’ve seen them all, quality computers and garbage computers.
So the $800 eMac is actually a pretty good buy. I don’t think the average user is going to find it limited in any way.
computers get upgraded…apple themselve are trying to promote sales by adding mhz, bigger hard drives, more RAM, newer cpus, etc.
the whole point isnt that the new emacs and ibooks arent better than the old models, they are.
the point is that for the same or better power, flexibility, and features you can buy a machine for half the cost or less!
Buy what you like: just sharing knowledge.
BTW, you likewise can buy a hp/compaq laptop with 1 yr warranty, amd 2200, 256mb ram, 30Gb hard drive, combo dvd/cd-rw drive, windows xp home, 10/100 ethernet, 56k, pcmcia slot, and 15″ lcd at Circuit City for $649.
I’m with debman on this. It’s insane to keep arguing about the price of Macs vs PCs. The Mhz myth is just that, a myth, it’s not real!
Modern computer performance has totally outpaced software deveopment. Unless you’re a gamer, graphics artist, use cad, etc, etc… You’re not going to need a 3 Ghz processor, or even a 2 Ghz processor!
I just put together an Athlon 2200+ this year, and at 1.8 Ghz I don’t see myself needing to upgrade it for a few years at least. That’s more than enough processing power for me. And I’m a power user/geek.
I’m just not a gamer nor do I use many processor intensive apps. The most resource hungry app I run is Virtual PC. (helps with my OS addiction.
)
Both Macs and PCs are plenty fast for most people today. I’m more worried about quality and reliability. It doesn’t make much sense to have a 3 Ghz P4 built with crappy hardware.
Just my two cents…
Apple decided to stop supporting 3 generations of processor architectures.
Also nice to see the rumors were terribly wrong, making claims of 800-1.2GHz G3 iBooks with a brand new form factor.
But has Apple switched to Motorola for the iBooks now? Or are these using some sort of IBM G4 processor?
Never mind, the processor appears to be a Motorola 7455.
I beg to differ on your opinion of low end computers.
truth is tens of millions of people buy them at retail every year worldwide. yeah they have software modems not hardware, yeah they have integrated graphics and sound– versus top line agp and pci cards, yeah they have tiny cases, yeah they have 5400rpm drives and not 7200…but if you look at the low end macs you will find all of the same problems.
if you wanna pay 2x as much for a pretty plastic case, feel free…not everyone can afford to. I know plenty of people that have likewise had problems with “cheap” computers, but conversely I know many more that are to this day still using windows 98 boxes bought cheap at major retailers 4 and 5 years ago and they are going along just fine. If they had a major meltdown or even just a minor problem they could still afford to just chuck the pc and replace it at least one time for the same cost as one Mac.
who said cheap computers were a myth?
all I said is that computers that are faster than 500 MHz spend more time waiting for data than they do processing the data.
get faster peripherals and you will see a significant speed bump
I replaced my old G4 400 hard drive that ran at 5400 RPM with a nice new 120 GB barracuda at 7200 RPM with a 8 MB cache…boot went from being 1 min to 20 seconds.
THAT is a speed up.
there is no reason to get a power hungry computer unless you spend more time processing than interacting. interaction requires faster interconnects between the hardware in order to get a good experience, Processing data like in a batch process like you see in CAD or editing TIFFs and crap where rendering is done, you spend all your time in the processor and you will see HUGE speed bumps in speed of the job with a faster CPU.
but I can build you a 5 GHz PC that takes longer to boot, is more sluggish to use, takes more time to get work done and seems super slow, all I need is a motherboard with a 33 MHz Bus, ISA cards for the IO, a 33 MHz ATA connection, and a 3200 RPM hard-drive…oh…and I could use some 72 pin SIMMs.
the interaction between you and that machine will be hell..you will feel like you are running windows XP on a 286.
Now for some comments on the orginal topic.
I think the new iBooks are great! I’ve been looking at the iBooks for a long time now, the only thing that’s been causing me to hold back was the G3. But now that they’re all running G4’s, I definitely want to get one. Time to start saving up.
Apple has really don’t a great job with them, they truly are the “lite” version of the PowerBooks now. A lot of the same great features for a great price.
They’re much better than the G3 iBooks which they replaced.
One thing I wonder about is how the new G4 iBooks will impact sales of the 12 inch PowerBook??
It doesn’t seem to have very many advantages over the iBook now?? Is it really worth the extra $500 over the entry level iBook G4?
Other than DVI out, 200 Mhz of speed, and and double the L2 cache, the 12 inch PB doesn’t seem to have much over the new iBook G4.
So it’ll be interesting to see what happens to 12in PB sales.
I can’t wait for the review of the new iBooks! I also can’t wait to get one for myself!
Ok, but I’m 80% gamer and a developer and I can’t say I beleve that any G4 is going to work for me. I do love graphics and nice looking interfaces. I own a 3Gen iPod and I would love to play with OSX but the agument about Mac being beter for graphics and video is also Myth. Adobe Premiere is no longer availible for Mac and Final Cut is falling behind. I have not played with a G5 but at the prices I’m seeing I won’t touch one. Plus in terms of software I do own XP Pro but I don’t need to buy a new copy with every system upgrade and Microsoft does not charge for service packs and updates.
it is impossible to get a 300 dollar PC with out using refurbished or old parts.
and you also run the risk of getting into CHEAPLY MADE parts…parts where the quality of the ICBs are garbage and made with corroded wires etc.
they sell well because they are cheap, not because they are well made.
if you are trying to make money on well made cheap hardware, you will find that you are in the bread line in short order.
From a support standpoint cheap brand and white box systems are not worth it. At the company where I work at we used to buy white box systems from a local computer shop. $400 gets you an AMD system. More often than not the system when back for silly repairs like blown out power supplies, memory errors, can’t boot, DOA, or the system would blue screen frequently. This is not the fault of AMD. They make great processors. The system builders had shoddy Q&A which is probably true for a lot of white box PC shops unless they have ISO certification.
We now purchase Dell and Apple and those quality issues are gone. Guess what the average price is for a Dell system? Around $700 and we are talking about a Celeron system.
All these people yaking out AMD this and that, blah blah. Guess what? Businesses don’t trust AMD processors. Intel has better OEM contracts and marketing than AMD.
People whine about Apple’s marketing when really they should complain about AMD whose marketing slogan is.
” AMD ME ”
http://www.amd.com/us-en/
Right…At least Apple thinks they are the best, AMD wants you to be AMD’d, whatever that means.
Regardless these $200 PCs are not worth it and an eMac is leagues better than a majority of the cheap PCs out there. Just the fact that you don’t have to deal with the rock solid security and the unproven invulnerability of Windows is enough of a selling point. Thats even before we start talking about viruses. There is value to be had beyond the dollars that you initially shell out.
old parts? you mean like a g3 or 2x agp or 100/133mhz system busses or usb 1 or non-dolby 5.1 sound or single button no scroll wheel mice, or what do you mean by old? Last time i checked the habit was to pay 2x as much as needed and you got old technology when buying a Mac. usb 2?…just coming out on mac now. dvd+r/rw….just coming out on mac. high speed busses…just now coming out on Mac. 4x and 8x agp…just now coming out on select mac models. pci-x…just now coming out on mac…all technologies that were on PCs before mac….and the list would go on and on.
in the united states it is illegal to sell as new a refurbished product.
I have opened the the cheap HPs, Compaqs, Dells, White Boxes, and can assure you they are low quality parts but inexpensive. They are not refurbed unless sold as refurbs.
It ain’t impossible…go to Circuit City when next flyer hits in your Sunday paper and look for yourself. Likewise hit Walmart, BestBuy, whatever…if you wanna know what is in them, open one up and look.
“Final Cut is falling behind”
give us a link.
“I do own XP Pro but I don’t need to buy a new copy with every system upgrade and Microsoft does not charge for service packs and updates”
neither does Apple 10.2.-10.2.8 is free and no one HAS to upgrade to Panther. The difference is most people want to upgrade.
Will Longhorn be free?
More than games drive the market but it certainly wouldn’t hurt for Apple to have more games on their platform.
Ok, but I’m 80% gamer and a developer and I can’t say I beleve that any G4 is going to work for me.
So don’t buy one. High end Macs are for preprint, graphics, and audio professionals.
I do love graphics and nice looking interfaces. I own a 3Gen iPod and I would love to play with OSX but the agument about Mac being beter for graphics and video is also Myth. Adobe Premiere is no longer availible for Mac and Final Cut is falling behind.
Final Cut (Pro, I’m guessing) is falling behind what, Avid Xpress? Given the price difference between the the two this isn’t really a problem. I haven’t played the new Premiere but from Adobe’s claims of “All New Code” I don’t really expect it to be able to match Final Cut Pro’s feature set… maybe a few versions down the road. It will also be interesting to see if Adobe has remedied Premiere’s performance problems… compared to the highly AltiVec optimized Final Cut Pro, Premiere’s performance was simply pathetic.
I have not played with a G5 but at the prices I’m seeing I won’t touch one. Plus in terms of software I do own XP Pro but I don’t need to buy a new copy with every system upgrade and Microsoft does not charge for service packs and updates.
For the millionth time, Apple does not charge for updates.
or a major revision to the OS. Apple users that CHOOSE to upgrade or want to stay current with Mac features (itunes, isynch, etc etc) do have to pay….and on an annual basis. This i found and explains it very well indeed:
Price Comparison for Apple Mac OS X v. Microsoft Windows XP
Apple OS X History
Moving from classic Mac OS to the new OS X
09-13-00 Mac OS X Beta ships on cd only-cost of $29…no free download.
03-24-01 OS X Ships (doesn’t ship on new macs until July)-cost of $129
09-25-01 Mac OS X 10.1 released-cost free, but $20 to have Apple ship it (no download available to upgrade) and some Apple retailers gave the cds away free
End of 2001 10.1.2 ships-cost free
08-24-02 Mac OS X v10.2 (Jaguar) available-Cost of $129
02-14-03 Mac OS X 10.2.4 released-free
10-24-03 Mac OS X 10.3 ships-cost of $129 (only $20 for Mac users that have bought brand new G5 machines.)
Total for OS X if always upgrading to latest and greatest version:
Including beta in 37 months: $436
No beta, just retail in 31 months since March 2001: $407
(as an aside, since you have to have a Mac to install the Mac OS, buying the OS from Apple is always in essence an upgrade and not a full version being installed on a machine with no operating system as you can do on the PC side.)
Prices listed above are full retail and are controlled by Apple. Retailers are not allowed to sell but at a tiny percent less than the above prices or they lose the right to sell Apple products. Retailers do at times offer some other deals like a free t-shirt or other such goodies to sweeten the offer (Apple allows this).
I assume you can expect another update like 10.4 next year for $129.
Windows XP History
10-25-01: XP is released- cost, see prices below for Pro and Home versions.
09-09-02: Service Pack 1 released-cost free download.
02-03-03: Service Pack 1a released-cost free download.
Third Quarter of 2004: expected ship date for Service Pack 2-cost free.
Late 2005: expected ship date of next new OS with cost to upgrade-currently codenamed Longhorn. As both MS Windows Server and MS Office have gone down in price with their latest releases, I would expect the desktop OSes to do the same when they go gold master.
Weekly and monthly updates are released via download at no cost. These include security fixes and product compatibility fixes. Also includes updates to driver database, Direct X, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Netmeeting, Messenger, Windows Movie Maker, Power Toys, etc. etc.
Professional Version
Full Version cost is: $299 (only bought by the user building a PC from parts or from select vendors that sell barebones computers without an OS, another thing that can’t be done on the Mac side). All others would either get OS in a new PC or would buy upgrade models since they already own Windows. Can be bought online today for as little as $220.
Upgrade cost is: $199 (available today for as little as $178 via online order)
OEM Full License cost is available on the net today for: $130 (no support)
Full Volume License cost w/ media is: $97 online today.
Upgrade Volume License w/ media is: $65 online today.
Home Version
Full Verison cost is $199 (only bought by the user building a PC from parts or from select vendors that sell barebones computers without an OS, another thing that can’t be done on the Mac side) Can be bought online today for as little as $142.
Upgrade cost is $99 (available today for as little as $79 via online order)
OEM Full License cost is available on the net today for: $83 (no support)
MS resellers and retailers don’t have stringent price controls forced upon them and that is reflected in the heavily reduced prices off of retail.
Misc.
Note that MS gives you many choices based on need. The Pro version is usually only needed by a user with a client pc on a network with a server environment involved. All others short of “power users” can use the Home version of XP. Power users can buy an OEM version without support for radically lower prices if they are savvy enough to take care of their PC on their own.
All updates to XP and supporting applications that ship with the OS since release have been free. Two years of free service thus far and the next full upgrade with any cost is not expected until late-2005. Four years between paid upgrades!
I wonder how many Mac users don’t run the latest release of X because it simply costs too much to pay Apple what amounts to a yearly $129 subscription fee.
Windows XP users bought once and know that they will get free upgrades and enhancements for years to come until the next major release of a full OS. MS also clearly roadmaps its plans so that businesses, education, and concerned users can plot their future.
So not only do PCs cost less than Macs in hardware, but Microsoft sells Windows for less than what Apple sells the Mac OS…by a substantial amount.
* Both Microsoft and Apple offer discounts to non-profits, academic, government, and military buyers, but again MS discounts at a higher percentage.
no, I mean old as in manufactured and now being sold for 10% of the original value to OEms because they are over stock or returns.
the stuff in an apple is older technology, but it is not an old part.
big diffrence.
it is an upgrade only if:
you view hundreds of new features only an upgrade
you view performance enhancements only an upgrade
you view XP as a service pack
Very well articulated my friend,
but being a long time mac user I can truely say you don’t have your facts straight.
OSX is more of a brand name like Windows….
moreso than an operating system such as Win98, or WinXP
OSX has different OS because of that being 10.1, 10.2 and soon to be released 10.3 . Apple is not forcing you to upgrade so why do it? 10.1 is a perfectly stable OS and you are forgeting all the system updates Apple has released for 10.1 and 10.2….they are moreso the equivalent of windows SP updates, since they are mostly security and bug fixes.
I also noticed you only mentioned WinXP in your explanation above. Microsoft did charge users for an OS update a few years back….it was called win98 SE
Hope this enlightens you a bit
look forward to hearing your comments
you have os 9
you wanna try X? pay to get beta on cd
want itunes? buy os x
have os x and want safari? buy os x 10.2
isynch?…..
imovie?…..
ical?….
ichat?……
itunes music store access with what version of os x do i need?….oh yeah it does work on 4 yr old windows os (windows 2000)
of course no one makes you pay to move ahead, you do it by choice.
meanwhile on windows windows media player updates, internet explorer, messenger, movie maker, etc etc updates are free.
isn’t the power consumption of a G5 enormous? Are you sure
they’ll get that into a laptop by the end of the year?
I don’t mind having a G4, even if they do come out with
a G5 laptop by the end of this year. A G4 gives me
everything I want, in fact, almost too much.
A g4 800 mhz processor with ddr333 and a nice 8x agp comparable video card would be perfect.
hahaha that is good analysis dude. mac user pay WAY more for OS than PC user. usually when PC user upgrade, they also buy new PC, because microsoft don’t release new OS every year, they support old OS. apple doesn’t support old OS, if u want new apple program u need new apple OS.
i have never paid a dime for microsoft OS. when new microsoft os comes out I just buy new computer. and when u can go to dell and buy 2.4GHz system with 17″ LCD for $500 instead of 1.6GHz system with 15″ LCD for $3000, buying new pc for new os doesn’t seem that bad. meanwhile mac users spend almost $500 just on new os, lol
Panther is an upgrade to MacOSX 10.2.
The following are updates to MacOSX 10.2
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:21:15 US/Eastern: Installed “Internet Explorer 5.2 Security Update” (5.2.2)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:21:22 US/Eastern: Installed “StuffIt Expander Security Update” (7.0)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:21:35 US/Eastern: Installed “Java” (1.4.1)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:24:43 US/Eastern: Installed “QuickTime” (6.1.1)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 18:45:49 US/Eastern: Installed “iCal” (1.0.2)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 18:47:31 US/Eastern: Installed “iPhoto” (2.0)
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 18:49:06 US/Eastern: Installed “iTunes” (3.0.1)
Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:12:01 US/Eastern: Installed “iSync” (1.0)
Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:12:48 US/Eastern: Installed “iMovie” (3.0.2)
Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:13:52 US/Eastern: Installed “AirPort Software” (3.0.4)
Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:49:25 US/Eastern: Installed “Mac OS X Update” (10.2.6)
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:28:59 US/Eastern: Installed “iSync” (1.1)
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:29:39 US/Eastern: Installed “iTunes” (4.0.1)
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:30:51 US/Eastern: Installed “Bluetooth Software” (1.2.1)
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:31:52 US/Eastern: Installed “QuickTime” (6.3)
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:32:02 US/Eastern: Installed “Safari Update” (1.0 Beta 2 (v74))
Tuesday, June 10, 2003 15:35:53 US/Eastern: Installed “Security Update 2003-06-09” (1.0)
Monday, July 14, 2003 14:00:20 US/Eastern: Installed “Hard Disk Update” (1.0)
Monday, July 14, 2003 14:00:28 US/Eastern: Installed “Security Update 2003-06-09” (2.0)
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:32:22 US/Eastern: Installed “AirPort Software” (3.1)
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:32:40 US/Eastern: Installed “iPod Software” (2.0.1)
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:38:05 US/Eastern: Installed “Security Update 2003-07-14” (1.0)
Monday, August 18, 2003 09:30:01 US/Eastern: Installed “AirPort Software” (3.1.1)
Monday, August 18, 2003 09:34:09 US/Eastern: Installed “Security Update 2003-08-14” (1.0)
Tuesday, September 09, 2003 13:47:49 US/Eastern: Installed “Java” (1.4.1)
Monday, September 22, 2003 19:39:18 US/Eastern: Installed “Mac OS X Update” (10.2.8)
Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:57:33 US/Eastern: Installed “Mac OS X Update” (10.2.8)
Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:31:38 US/Eastern: Installed “iMovie” (3.0.3)
Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:33:24 US/Eastern: Installed “iCal” (1.5.1)
Big difference
This is only a partial listing 10.2.1 to 10.2.8 are all free.
Also beta tester of MacOSX were able to purchase 10.0 for $99 and the update to 10.1 was FREE. All you had to do was go to an Apple reseller or Apple store where they were provided for free. Also MacOSX could be found for cheaper than $129.
Your also getting an OS that is evolving faster than Windows and Linux in certain areas.
isn’t the power consumption of a G5 enormous? Are you sure they’ll get that into a laptop by the end of the year?
At 1.2GHz the G5’s power dissipation is only 19W. This isn’t bad, but the G5 certainly wasn’t designed to be a laptop processor. IBM will need to add some power saving features, at least to the chipset, before we will be seeing G5 notebooks. Before the end of the year? Maybe… we’ll see
The power dissipation figures of the G5 may be found in this PDF on page 14:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1…
Also note that the 866MHz G4 runs at 18.5W (compared to the 1.2GHz G5, which runs at 19W) I hope the G4 iBooks are indicative that Apple intends to ramp up the PowerBook line with G5s.
Another thing is for someone who can afford a Mac to begin with what is $129 anyway?
You cheapskates are preaching poverty to people that are not exactly financially destitute so its kind of funny that you brag how cheap you are to someone that can afford more than you. Its like a some guy in a Grand National putting someone down for driving a Mercedes C230 or a BMW 3 series.
Apple is going to sell a lot of those new eMacs and iBooks. The iBooks are also slot loading with 802.11g and bluetooth support.
Woofy…
You’ve obviously never spent any serious time with Final Cut Pro… The reason why Adobe Premiere was NOT updated for the Mac is that Premiere simply couldn’t compete with the last two versions of Final Cut. FCP 4 now comes with LiveType (a great animated titles package purchased from Prismo Graphics); Compressor (a terrific MPEG-2 encoder); Cinema Tools 2(a keycode tracking database for film, used to cost $999 US by itself); and Soundtrack (musical composition package often described as brilliant or addictive). And all of these programs just fly on a professional Mac sporting a G4 processor or better…
Just about everyone in the DV industry magazines are describing FCP 4 as a best of breed application.
So… if you could be this wrong about FCP, it makes the rest of your arguments dubious at best…
Â
<<I own a 3Gen iPod and I would love to play with OSX but the agument about Mac being beter for graphics and video is also Myth. Adobe Premiere is no longer availible for Mac and Final Cut is falling behind. I have not played with a G5 but at the prices I’m seeing I won’t touch one.>>
So what you’re saying is that Microsoft supports ME better than Apple supports OS9.
Ok. But why should I care about this?
what im saying is that in the last two years people that love macs and mac os and want to stay up to date and get all the latest and greatest have bought an OS three times.
in the same time frame windows users have bought one OS and subsequent enhancements have all been free. most of the features mac users are paying for have also been in windows for years: netmeeting, voice and video chat, fast user switching….
with the money a pc user has saved he went out and bought either a palm, a pocket pc, a cell phone, an ipod, or a weekend at the beach.
thats the point.
so, you think Macs are inferior to Windows because Apple releases an OS upgrade every year that you are not required to buy, but all the new services Apple builds does not support the legacy Code base and inferior construction or OS 9?
Is ok is people like one platform over the other, what I think that is wrong is when people become so blind that even with the “proof” on their face (PC ARE cheaper), they come with nonsense excuses that the Mac’s have better parts.
Sorry, but not true, Mac’s use the same parts, if it breaks on a PC, it will break on a Mac, period.
Mod me down, erase the post, but the truth is that Mac’s are much more expensive.
was relatively immature at release (meaning 10.1 even, 10.0 was even worse), lacking a number of modern POSIX features,most notably a number of pthreads functions, things like poll(), etc. Apple has been continually expanding the OS X API throughout every release, adding more and more POSIX features in addition to things like journaling filesystem support, speed improvements, etc.
MacOS 10.3 will see not only a poll() system call, but also a full kqueue implementation, and support for POSIX asynchronous I/O.
Please keep this in mind when comparing OS X to the decade mature Windows NT codebase. The NeXT kernel, in comparison, sat around for a decade being undeveloped. It’s maturing quite rapidly, gaining a plethora of new features with every release. Unfortunately, Apple’s customers do pay the price for this, literally…
I hate these arguments about prices. But, if you have a multi-PC or multi-Mac home, there can be a big difference.
If you have a PC home like that and a new version of Windows comes out, what are you going to do if you want to upgrade them all? In a Mac home you can upgrade all Macs by buying one copy of the OS. Apple doesn’t “support” this, of course (that’s why they have the “Family Pack” for $199), but they don’t stop you from doing it.
Price arguments aside, it good to see the consumer Macs all with G4’s now. It makes the iBook viable. Apple makes money on hardware, but it’s the software that comes with Macs now that make a difference. I’m not anti-XP at all and use it on my Dell – it’s great. But, when families – I mean families with children that want to use video cameras, digital camera’s, have music collections, burn DVD’s, , etc., I always recommend the iMac or eMac. The software that comes in the box can’t be beat for a family, I think.
At any rate, the Apple consumer line-up is completely “up to date” now.
Talk about a fast update.. Does MS every respond this quickly to trouble?
Is ok is people like one platform over the other, what I think that is wrong is when people become so blind that even with the “proof” on their face (PC ARE cheaper), they come with nonsense excuses that the Mac’s have better parts.
The G5 has a 1GHz (DDR, 500MHz native clock speed) front side bus connected to a HyperTransport controller. The only setup currently comparable on the PC side is an Opteron system.
In comparison, the best P4 systems have an 800MHz (QDR, 200MHz native clock speed) front side bus. Sending more bits per cycle does nothing to alleviate latency. The G5 has a higher throughput, lower latency bus, and unlike the P4 the G5 doesn’t have to constantly hit main RAM when its trace cache becomes tainted by a branch misprediction. (as the G5 doesn’t need a trace cache, or micro ops for that matter, it’s using a decent ISA to begin with)
You’re kidding yourself if you think the components found in the G5 are anything but top of the line.
As for cost, keep in mind the G5 is a top of the line system (for consumer grade hardware). The only x86 systems capable of competing with it are all high end workstations and servers.
Also keep in mind that the G5 cluster Virginia Tech just built had the best price/performance ratio of any supercomputer system ever created.
I never said that Macs use diffrent parts, but the parts in a 300 dollar PC are cheap crap…..
you are aware that just becasue it fits in a slot does not mean the card was constructed well or that the card was not sitting exposed to elements tha could damage it before the OEM bought it.
DELL PCs that are inexpensive are on clearence because they are old modles or have been sitting in the warehouse for a few months without moving. super low cost OEMs use referbished parts and over stock parts. henceh CHEAP (not inexpensive) parts.
Apple puts well made parts by name brand companies. so does dell (though in the low end modles, if they are newly constructed, they are made of parts that have aged on the shelf, and not in a computer.
i’m gonna get one. i was gonna get a dell and install debian on it but considering i can get an iBook with similar specs for a few hundred ? more and a student discount, i can’t see any reason not to.
can anyone tell me about RAM usage? how much RAM will I need?
i can’t wait, instead of getting a toyota/dell, i’m getting a mercedes/iBook 8)
well, if they have the same memory ability as the last modle, you can jam 640 MB in there. in my 400 MHz g4 towner, I have 384 MBs of ram in it and it runs fine.
so if you get 512 MBs you will be good, but get the least amount as possable from Apple. you willbe better off getting more RAM from another source (as you are when it comes to any computer maker)
I remember the days when you could actually buy an apple computer for less then 1000 dollars (not including sales tax and all that). They actually had a machine that was somewhat cheap, now they jacked the price to start $1099. Did I miss something here?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m extremely happy the iBooks finally got a G4 chip in them, but pictured them to keep the price the same! I’m happy with the upgrade, but not the price. The iBook is suppose to be their cheap line.
Now when they boost the PowerBooks to G5 or something else, the price will just jump even higher!
This statement is incorrect:i can’t wait, instead of getting a toyota/dell, i’m getting a mercedes/iBook. because Toyota and Benz don’t share parts. What is appropriate to state are cars that have components from a single manufacturer like Mitsubishi. So, it should be stated as :i can’t wait, instead of getting a Mitsubishi/dell, i’m getting a Hyundia/iBook.
I remember the days when you could actually buy an apple computer for less then 1000 dollars (not including sales tax and all that). They actually had a machine that was somewhat cheap, now they jacked the price to start $1099. Did I miss something here?
Yes, it’s the price of a portable. Apple has eMacs starting from $799.
If all the speculation and rumour mongering about G5 PowerBooks is true, then following their release expect a price drop on the iBook line as well.
Apple is in the process of transitioning their entire product line to new technologies. They really should be given a break during the transition period… they’re trying to maintain a sensible price structure even though their product line is only halfway through the transition.
Following the release of a 12″ PowerBook G5 (which is entirely possible given the heat dissipation of a 1.2GHz G5 CPU, see my previous posts on this matter) I’m sure we’ll se a 1GHz 12″ G4 iBook.
I’m not going to argue the “Workstation” vs “Desktop” semantics you tried to pull in your comment (i.e. a dual Opteron purchased for less then the dual G5), but the Athlon 64 which has an 800MHz FSB connected to a Hypertransport controller is also available and is “consumer grade hardware”. It is not only as fast or faster then the G5, it is available for much less then the G5 (a friend of mine just bought one for $1300, Athlon 64 3200+, 1 GB RAM, 120 GB hard disk, GigE, etc, etc). PC hardware *is* cheaper, even the stuff which has all the same features as the G5.
Does the $1300 system you quoted have PCI-X and a Serial ATA hard drive?
I’m not saying PCs aren’t cheaper, I’m simply saying you get what you pay for, and if you think Apple is using anything but top-of-the-line components you’re kidding yourself.
My friend purchased an ATA 133 hard drive because he’s going to run Linux on it and SATA support under Linux isn’t always the best right now. But, it has 2 ATA 133 ports, 2 SATA ports and a Promise RAID controller with another 2 SATA ports and a ATA 133 port. It does not have PCI-X, it does have GigE, 4 USB, 2 USB 2, 1 IEEE1394, Audio with SPDIF out, etc. The Athlon 64 systems are, in all honesty, a significantly better buy then a G5 unless you want OS X. Actually, I couldn’t think of a reason to buy a G5 except for OS X; on the low end the Athlon 64 beats it out price to performance wise handily, at the $3k price point the Opteron is much more machine for the same price as the G5.
Actually, I couldn’t think of a reason to buy a G5 except for OS X; on the low end the Athlon 64 beats it out price to performance wise handily, at the $3k price point the Opteron is much more machine for the same price as the G5.
Perhaps you missed these recent benchmarks:
http://barefeats.com/g5c.html
The G5 performs almost identical to a similarly clocked Opteron system.
Don’t expect things to stay this way though. On the Mac side of things all applications will now be optimizing for the G5’s AltiVec unit. On the PC side we’re likely to see few professional applications recompiled for the AMD64 ISA, so they’ll be unable to take advantage of the extra registers and other niceties that the AMD64 ISA offers over x86.
Support is a key issue. Are we likely to see an AMD64 optimized Photoshop? Avid Xpress? QuarkXPress? ProTools? Cubase? An AMD64 Photoshop is a maybe, and the answer to the others is most likely no. Meanwhile, on the Mac side we will see all of these applications being optimized for the G5’s new AltiVec unit within the next year.
The next big question on the Mac side is when will Apple begin officially supporting a 64-bit ABI systemwide.
I just purchased a fscking iBook 900 MHz w/ apple care, and an airport setup 16 days ago, and so far apple is refusing to either a) allow me to return my iBook and purchase a new one, or b) give me the difference in price. Having to pay $200 more 2 weeks before a revision sucks, especially considering that if I had purchased from a reseller I’d be able to return this POS no problem. I’ve been a staunch supporter of apple, but this sort of treatment is bullshit IMO. Unless they fix this for me, I’m ‘switching’ back to x86 and windows/linux.
Just placed my order at macmall. I can’t wait until it arrives. I was planning on waiting to get a powerbook eventually, but the $1099 price makes me forget all about the superdrive.
I’m eagerly awaiting my ibook, not only because it’s a new piece of hardware, but also so I can get my hands on Panther. New stuff rox.
6 hour battery life. Serioulsy thats ridiculous. Puts the g3 ibook’s 4 hour to shame. With most crappy wintel’s averaging around a 2-3 hour batterly life, why would anyone buy one?
I CAN’T WAIT!
” have never paid a dime for microsoft OS. when new microsoft os comes out I just buy new computer.”
You just contradicted yourself here.
If you buy a new PC that comes with a Microsoft OS, you paid for it — it’s included in the price.
That’s easily the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever heard. If you buy a 2003 car and then the 2004 model comes out 2 weeks later and the price on the one you just bought plummets, it’s your own tough luck. The dealership sure isn’t going to give you back the money you would have saved if you’d bought it at the later point.
Oh my god.
I just got a G3 iBook last monday (october 20). I bought it from the university store so probably can’t return it easily.
The new baseline G4 ibook has all the options I got and is 250$ (can) cheaper. I got screwed.
Hope they take it back. Anybody knows if I have some rights in canada for this kind of matter?
Let me put the ball in your court. 2 weeks ago that computer was good enough for you. And all of a sudden, now it’s not good and is enough to make you switch back? Come on. In most tasks, the 900MHz G3 will outperform the 800MHz G4. It’s got double the L2 cache and the G3 900 was outperforming the first 12″ PB which has a G4 867 in many non-Altivec tasks. You still have a great computer that’ll last you a few years to come before truly being obsolete. You knew the fine print when you bought your computer, and as you said, you could have purchased from a reseller and avoided this problem. I’d advise you do that next time around.
meanwhile on windows windows media player updates, internet explorer, messenger, movie maker, etc etc updates are free.
So is big brother.
I doubt that anyone would rely on a G5 vs. K8 purchasing decision on perfomance numbers published by a relatively unknown person that does not present any methodology information and uses a single beta-stage benchmarking program. What about some lab-testing, some information on machine setup (barefeats tells only the CPU speed), different benchmarks that cover different kinds of software? Testing takes more then publishing a chart with 10 numbers on it.
>> […] The argument about Mac being beter for graphics and video is also Myth. Adobe Premiere is no longer availible for Mac and Final Cut is falling behind.
The decision about weither a mac or pc is better for graphics is now just a pure matter of prefrence. Both do an adaquet job, and you can get excellent software on both. With the exception of FCP/FCE there isn’t really any video software that’s available for macs that isn’t for pcs.
In fact, Avid DS is only around for windows, IIRC. Both other than that all Avid products are available for both platforms and Media100 is around for both. FCP is mac only, Premiere Pro is PC only. Not a huge diffrence in selection there.
Final Cut (Pro, I’m guessing) is falling behind what, Avid Xpress? Given the price difference between the the two this isn’t really a problem.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. There isn’t much of a diffrence in price. FCP and XpressDV are both $1000 and XpressPro is $1.5k IIRC.
I haven’t played the new Premiere but from Adobe’s claims of “All New Code” I don’t really expect it to be able to match Final Cut Pro’s feature set… maybe a few versions down the road.
Premiere Pro is a huge improvement, but it does need some work. The first version of any program is never nearly as good as the later versions. In a version or two PP might could pose a threat to FCP’s market…
It will also be interesting to see if Adobe has remedied Premiere’s performance problems… compared to the highly AltiVec optimized Final Cut Pro, Premiere’s performance was simply pathetic.
Premiere on a mac was horrid for sure
Premiere Pro is much faster (but is PC only) and has some real time features.
Go ahead and buy one of those cheap PC’s and see how long it lasts. Ask Circuit City how many get returned. Go ahead and use an OS thats 3 years behind OS X. Enjoy because its cheap!
Apple really missed the boat not shipping new iBooks when school started. But since the new Powerbooks weren’t out yet gues they couldn’t have shipped the new iBooks. Still it’s quite a missed opportunity plus they prolly pissed of alot of people who bought the “old” iBooks.
As a person who uses FCP4 and has used Premiere Pro..I can say that FCP at $1000 is still head and shoulders above what Premiere Pro can do. Avid has some very cool stuff..but Avid DV ($1500) is still behind FCP4 at the price. Adobe has done a good job of upgrading Premeire, but FCP4 is atleast a version or two ahead of Premiere.
“Let me put the ball in your court. 2 weeks ago that computer was good enough for you. And all of a sudden, now it’s not good and is enough to make you switch back? Come on. In most tasks, the 900MHz G3 will outperform the 800MHz G4. It’s got double the L2 cache and the G3 900 was outperforming the first 12″ PB which has a G4 867 in many non-Altivec tasks. You still have a great computer that’ll last you a few years to come before truly being obsolete. You knew the fine print when you bought your computer, and as you said, you could have purchased from a reseller and avoided this problem. I’d advise you do that next time around.”
Fine, true enough. I still reserve the right to vote with my wallet when I see fit. After all, it is my money, and I don’t feel beholden to a group consensus about my opinions when spending it. FWIW, I was able to return the iBook minus restocking fees which is good enough for me — I never though apple should bend over for me, only treat me fairly. I guess that a lot of people expected to return their old book for full price, and have apple kick them back $200 and a new iBook.
Sorry for being so pissed off initially, but after being shuffled around to 3 separate people on the phone, and being told all three times I was outta luck, I was pissed. Especially because, like was mentioned, if I had just headed to best buy I would have had no problems at all. As it turned out, I just walked into the store, and they were like “OK, Sure!” I was blown away, but I’m still not sure why they couldn’t tell me that over the phone. So, I take it back, apple is cool with me, I’m sorry to have been a cunt about the whole situation.
I’m glad it worked out for you. There is no way in hell Dell would have taken your system back if a new P4 processor came out.
yeah, tehy are a lot nicer at the apple stores than they are on the phone.
I plan on getting my new iBook at the store rather than on-line.
KEEP IT CIVILIZED around here, or you are all going to be moderated down or deleted. NO flamebaits or trolling please.
Thats all very nice, however, why don’t you delete people who are reported and yet, they’re not removed, such as:
they aren’t cheap when you can buy a PC for $369 – By anonymous (IP: —.hb.mvl.intelos.net) – Posted on 2003-10-22 16:40:09
Apple is funny and so are its users. – By Woofy Stud (IP: 24.70.95.—) – Posted on 2003-10-22 17:33:43
 its no myth – By anonymous (IP: —.hb.mvl.intelos.net) – Posted on 2003-10-22 17:59:55
impossible? – By anonymous (IP: —.hb.mvl.intelos.net) – Posted on 2003-10-22 18:43:58
hmmmm, I guess it could be put like this – By anonymous (IP: —.hb.mvl.intelos.net) – Posted on 2003-10-22 19:57:50
re: anonymous – By rowel (IP: 129.82.204.—) – Posted on 2003-10-22 20:04:12
re: Apple is funny and so are its users. – Â By MM (IP: —.ny5030.east.verizon.net) – Posted on 2003-10-22 20:44:05
If you are going to talk the talk, how about walking it Eugenia. Mod these idiots down. I don’t mind some constructive criticism of Apple or any other product but for Pete sake, “I can’t afford a Mac” has to be the worse excuse for hating a Mac. Btw, I am still trying to work out how one can hate a copy or an inanimate object like a computer.
If you are going to talk the talk, how about walking it Eugenia. Mod these idiots down. I don’t mind some constructive criticism of Apple or any other product but for Pete sake, “I can’t afford a Mac” has to be the worse excuse for hating a Mac. Btw, I am still trying to work out how one can hate a copy or an inanimate object like a computer
IT SHOULD BE:
If you are going to talk the talk, how about walking it Eugenia. Mod these idiots down. I don’t mind some constructive criticism of Apple or any other product but for Pete sake, “I can’t afford a Mac” has to be the worse excuse for hating a Mac. Btw, I am still trying to work out how one can hate a company or an inanimate object like a computer
And my parents went out and bought a 12″ pb last week.. I told them ‘wait just a week,, panther is coming out,, its *very* likely that new iBooks will be released..
Now they can get a simmilarly equiped notebook for a lot less..
The new iBooks are out before thanxgiving and chirstmas, so it is not too bad. I wish someone would give one to me as my christmas gift.
I am tired of all the Mac vs PC stuff here, let’s face it, it is more expensive to get a mac then a PC, IF THEY ARE THEY SAME, but they are NOT the same thing. In terms of functionality is nonsense, PC can’t run OS X, period. I am neither a die hard fan of PC or mac.
The one functionality of a mac, which can run OS X, a BSD based, yet very user friendly OS is missing on any PCs. That’s one of the biggest reasons why I wanna get a new ibook. Not that I can’t setup a decent Linux installation on PCs, but you just can’t deny OS X is more mature than Linux user interface wise. And the time to figure out why some stuff not working on my Linux notebook cost a lot of time (and money too, if my time is worth anything).
Referring the hardware issues, good hardware is available on PC and Mac, but cheap hardware available only for PC. And cheap hardware is very important people who can’t afford spending $100 or $200 or $300 on a display card… But I would think the same quality hardware costs just a bit more on mac. It is more expensive on macs, no doubts, but not too much. Consider this: You buy a piece of PC hardware, it is more than rare to have conflicts with the existing hardware, while it is less likely on macs.
One more thing about iBooks and power books, I recently trying to look for a lighter notebook and stronger (I have a 6.9lb Toshiba), but I found that if I want something light and look nice, I end up paying around the same price as I will for ibooks and powerbooks. And sometimes some notebooks on the market are seemly too badly built… (my roommate has a compa? notebook, 1.5 years old, with broken CDROM, Floopy drive and a keyboard key…), and I think it was at the $13xx range when he bought it. So IF the macs are more durable, maybe it is not that expensive after all.
pbs are better.(does this make you feel better?)
One thing I really like the pbs over the ibooks is that they come with DVI out…. which I really like, but I dont think it will justify the price difference base only on that.
And you can get panther for free too if you bought a pb last week. I remember reading something about it, but not 100% sure.
Well, the upgrade is $20 (pretty close to free if you ask me
I know the pb is better, but I just wonder if its really that much better for -them- (my parents).. All they really want to do is use Safari, iPhoto and iMovie.. They could’ve used the extra money that they spent on the pb for AppleCare or something..
Btw.. We are foreigners living in Korea,, but unfortunately it seems that some of the apps that we received with the pb is in korean (notably AppleWorks, and Classic mode).. Tommorrow when I’m going to go buy the Panther upgrade, I’ll ask them about getting an english version or something.. Ah well,, everything else is in english.. It also seems that the Quickbooks bundle isnt avaiable here (with the powerbook anyway,, they originally wanted an ibook, and the staff said you get Quickbooks with it :/)..
(Slightly OT)
I’m pretty new to macs,, and the 10.2 to 10.3 upgrade would be my first.. Is the iLife apps included on the 10.3 CD? Or would it keep the ones installed with 10.2. And the ‘bundled software’.. is that also included on the 10.3 CD? or is it only on the one you got with the hardware?
(Slightly OT)
iLife is included with X.3, but iDVD will only be installed if your Mac is equiped with a Superdrive. Since bundeled software differes from Mac to Mac it is not included on the OS install CDs. But you can reinstall them trough your old install-cds that came with your Mac.
And for the rest of the discussion – why does EVERY Apple-related post on OsNews ends up with a full OT Mac-PC flamewar?
Do you guys never stop? Just accept that every platform has their market and their customers – wether or not one is superior againt the other. What ist the problem to understand this?
“I’m glad it worked out for you. There is no way in hell Dell would have taken your system back if a new P4 processor came out.”
Thanks, but actually, that isn’t true. They have a 30 day money back “Total Satisfaction Guarantee” — that is 3 times longer than Apple’s.
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/policy/en/policy…
“New Hardware Products and Accessories:Â All new hardware, accessories, parts, and unopened software still in its sealed package, excluding the products listed below, may be returned within thirty (30) days from the date on the packing slip or invoice.”
Best buy has a similar 30 day return policy, as well as a price match guarantee. All of them charge a re-stocking fee, and that is entirely reasonable. It would have been entirely unreasonable to penalize me for NOT shopping at Best Buy of Fry’s by standing firm on their 10 day Apple Store return policy. At the very least, Apple Care should cover situations like this one, and I purchased Apple Care. In the end, though, it all worked out. If I ever see someone in a similar situation, I will urge them to go to the store instead of calling — it seems to be about 1000X more effective.
FWIW, I would have never been in the market for a Dell in any event. Sager or IBM would have been my poison. Damn those Sagers are some slick laptops!
I’d say that they still have the nicer machine by a long shot. The single downside to the PB is that you have to be more gentle with it, but the other features more than make up for that. To get a similar machine, you’d have to buy the 14″ iBook, and even that isn’t as nice as the pbook. Some people contest that the ATI is a better video card than the Geforce, but I really doubt that that will matter to your parents. I’d love to have the 12″ pbook, but #1) they were out of them, and #2) I have a kid, and I am out and about a lot, so I really should stick to the laptops that are a little more bulletproof.
If I were in you or your parent’s shoes, I’d be perfectly happy with the powerbook – it is still better than the iBook, and certainly more “future proof.”
The university store will refund me 25% price protection.
I was satisfied with my purchase prior to the announcement of the G4 iBook, now I am simply overwelmed.
As a person who uses FCP4 and has used Premiere Pro..I can say that FCP at $1000 is still head and shoulders above what Premiere Pro can do. Avid has some very cool stuff..but Avid DV ($1500) is still behind FCP4 at the price. Adobe has done a good job of upgrading Premeire, but FCP4 is atleast a version or two ahead of Premiere.
FCP is better than Premiere Pro, but I’m not sure if FCP’s lead will last long or not. PP has potential, and there are several 3rd party cards that give it even more RT capabilites. Also, I don’t think it was a good idea to call it Premiere Pro. Premiere has a poor reputation among professionals, Adobe should have chosen a diffrent name.
Btw, XpressDV is only $1000, XpressPro is $1500
What’s with Apple? A 1Ghz G4 is a totally obsolete CPU. Intels’ slowest current CPU is much faster and the slowest 1.5 Duron would be a similar performer. Realistically a 1.6GHz G5 should be the entry level CPU – it is about the performance of a inexpensive x86 machine such as P4 2.4 GHz.
A reasonable machine today is 2.4 GHz, 80GB hardrive, 512MB RAM, GF5200 and DVD burner.
The new eMacs are basically those of a reasonable 2.5 year old x86 machine.