Internet-connected Xbox units are phoning home to Microsoft and downloading a patch that closes the loophole that the Xbox Linux Project was exploiting to get Linux running on the Microsoft-built game machine. The patch may also delete “foreign” files that the Xbox Linux users install on the machine. There is some evidence that even if Xbox users don’t enable the “Xbox Live” settings, some games also can connect to the internet and transmit information back to Microsoft.
“I never allowed Microsoft alter anything on my Xbox through the Internet, and I never signed anything that contains a permission for Microsoft to do so,”
It’ll be interesting to see if anything comes of that.
-b
Well, goes to show what Microsoft may have in store for future versions of Windows.
Now I know how those MechInstaller files got deleted on my Xbox. >:(
You don’t get updates if you not connected to anything
It sounds like many people are thinking this
Here’s one.
I don’t care. They updated the system so it can have better features and locked out things that shouldn’t have been there. DAMN that sucks. How could they…
Shit i wish everything in life did that.
The Computer Misuse Act 1990 states,
“3.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a) he does any act which causes an unauthorised modification of the contents of any computer; and
(b) at the time when he does the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.”
Aitvo – The way I see it is this.
I got XBox, becouse I want to play XBox games
I got PS2, becouse I want to play PS2 Games
I think the idea of puting linux on XBox could be fun but stupid. Fun becouse, well some people like/have time to play with stuff, but to if I want to runn linux I get linux box. See here is something I don’t get. People run hacks on system thet were not designed to run such stuff. Then they complain thet s@#t is not working. This is why I don’t understand you saying
“This is just one more reason to be glad that I didn’t buy an XBox”
If you want to run some other stuff on it relibly buy another box. Hardware is cheep
Guma
“(a) he does any act which causes an unauthorised modification of the contents of any computer; and ”
my guess is that there’s some sort of authorization when you sign up for XBOX Live.. i don’t know though
(b) at the time when he does the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.”
requisite intent to… update the features on the system to the latest and greatest? hardly a criminal intent act i would say
Something to consider is that Sony _distributes_ a kit that’ll let you do the PS2 Linux thing. So, really, you could get a PS2 just for Linux and be within normal use parameters.
I must admit that the X-Box/Linux debacle has soured me on buying one of those and putting Linux on it. Hopefully Sony’s next console will feature a hard drive and LAN adapter so that I don’t have to buy $200 of stuff to run Linux on it.
There’s also that I can run 3D accelerated apps via SDL on my PS2, but I’ve not heard of anyone beating the nVidia driver into working on the X-Box.
-Erwos
ok….how is this illegal??
If you using your xbox for its intended purpose then this should be a problem…..and those of us who have mods in them…..so be it….you’ll have to deal with this as you are “according to you” breaking the law by modding you xbox.
Okay, I know that people will argue about the value and importance of installing Linux on the Xbox, but let’s be honest here. Why would anybody really want to do this? I have a Xbox for one purpose, to play games. I have a PC that I run Linux on to do serious stuff. So again, what is the exact point of doing this. You can get a real computer with the same specs or better than the Xbox for a comparable price. Why then destroy the Xbox to run Linux? Please somebody give me a real reason outside of “because you can”.
Othewise, move along. There isn’t anything else to see here.
Becuase you are getting one hell of a PC for $179 bucks.
Why can’t people realize that this is the reason for installing a mainstream OS.
In an older article it was stated the next Playstation will run some Linux, installed by default. Games and consoles get more demanding and complicated so they’d like to use an OS that has good network and threads support.
I don’t see why Microsoft is in trouble here; Just as with cd-writers (at least a couple of years ago) it was illegal to install new, not-supplied-by-the-orignal-manufacturer, firmware (don”t know if this still goes). So when you install Linux on your Xbox, don’t you somehow ‘upgrade’ your firmware as well?
Remember, Xbox is a whole different ballgame than a PC
Too bad you have a a few years until PS3
Was the ability of installing linux one of the advertised features of the X-Box? Just because someone found a way to hack linux into the X-Box by exploiting some loophole doesn’t mean that now MS has no right to fix that loophole.
Im an avid Linux user (Gentoo) and also an xbox owner. I bought my xbox for one reason only and that was to play xbox games and use xbox live. I see no reason at all to use an xbox for Linux. Its more of a pain than anything if you ask me. I have no issue with Microsoft fixing bugs on my xbox or giving me anything else to improve my gaming experience on it….again…thats what I bought it for. As long as they dont F up any of my saved games Im ok with it.
Another thing that I cant understand from the ppl getting bent on this is that, in order to get this auto update you have to be connected to xbox live. And to be connected to xbox live you cant be running Linux. Or, I should say, if youre running Linux you cant run xbox live. That said, I really dont see what the big deal is. Those already running Linux dont need to worry.
The issue isn’t so much that they’re fixing the loophole as the fact that it downloads/installs that update without express consent. If it’s acceptable for them to modify the console remotely without asking in this case, then it’s pretty much no holds barred to do whatever they want with respect to spying or whatnot, without you ever knowing.
The way I see it is, it’s my toaster and I’ll stick a fork in it if I want to. It’s my vcr and I’ll record what I want with it. It’s my xbox and I’ll put what *I* want on it. 😉
The point here is not that it erase Linux or keep you from installing it.
It’s that it upgrade your box without letting you know. It ship information on you to Microsoft when you play game without letting you know
That is the problem. Installing Linux will just find another workaround. But shipping serial ID to MS and installing file I dont know is terrible…
Um, I dont have this fear with Sony, btw
Exactly.
Check the Terms of Service in the XBOX Dashboard. I’m pretty sure it covers this. MS only has to worry about the OS that is included with the XBOX. If Linux (or whatever) gets wiped out due to an upgrade, it’s not their problem. 3rd-party OSes/modifications aren’t supported as XBOX is a closed system, and making sure no modifications are present helps prevent cheating or other misuse of the Live! service and can be seen as maintaining the security of the network.
If you want to modify the system, you have to deal with the possibility of losing some services, or you can use the product as intended and deal with not being able to run mods. If you want to run Linux or something else, you’re better of with a PC, PS2, or other supported environment. If a mod isn’t supported, its maintenence doesn’t have to be considered by the vendor.
BTW, the Dashboard update doesn’t install silently. It tells you about the update and you have to acknowledge it before it starts because it doesn’t want you to turn your XBOX off since it needs to flash it with the updated code.
breaking the law by modding you xbox
But think about how ridiculous that law is. Once you buy something, why don’t you have the right to do what you want to do with it? Think about products like baking soda, toothpicks, vaseline, newspaper, etc. How many different uses have people come up with for them. I am amazed at how some people love to throw away their rights.
-b
Microsoft make the hardware to sell at a loss in order to drive their gaming technology. Their agreement with the user gives them the right to patch bugs in the system – and when the bug is an exploit that people are using to get added functionality at Microsoft’s loss then I’d say in all fairness they have a right to patch that bug
Its sold as a games machine. This patch doesn’t affect that functionality at all.
This isn’t a competition issue.. MS has more than enough competition in the gaming marketplace.
They’re doing what any company would do in this instance. Not hacking, not illegally taking control of what people can do with their X-boxes. Just fixing a glaring problem, as is their right.
The only Hackers involved here are the ones running Linux. Face it – you still haven’t found a way of getting it running short of exploiting a bug or adding hardware to the xbox
“If you using your xbox for its intended purpose then this should be a problem…”
Is that the purpose intended by you or the purpose intended by Microsoft?
Whatever justification MS has is crap because I purchased the hardware. What right do they have to tamper with MY HARDWARE. I could take a shit on my Xbox because its MINE. I have nothing wrong with MS patching Xboxes, I do have something wrong with them doin so without the purchaser’s permission.
Give me a break. Oh well I will buy PS2. Im sure hackers with too much time on their hands will crack it.:)
The point isn’t so much “Linux” as it is unsigned XBox applications. I purchased my XBox not to play games, but run a number of unsigned applications on my XBox, including a host of emulators for a variety of systems, from the NES to the N64, and of course MAMEoX. The XBox makes an excellent set-top box for playing DivX as well, through XBMP, the XBox Media Player. For those of us with TVs/other video devices which take component (i.e. YCbCr) input, the XBox is a godsend, as for $140, or approximately the cost of a component video card, you can have a networkable DivX player with component output.
That said, I don’t have any form of Linux on my XBox.
You make some very good points……espeically with the component output.
PS2 doesn’t support HDTV in anyway….some xbox games are 1080i and lots are 16:9.
Also Xbox has a progessive scan DVD player as where the PS2 doesn’t.
Also when you speak of hardware and running apps….modding an xbox with a 120gb HD and a new dashboard is simple. You can even disable the Flash BIOS jumper so noone can update it. (games run much faster off the HD then off the DVD)
Also you can get your xbox on gamespy servers…etc with a simple mod and then you don’t have to worry about the Xbox Live fees.
You can mod it if you like, but don’t expect to be able to take advantage of any MS services if you do so. Again, the update notifies you before its installation proceeds unless some mods somehow interfere with that.
Okay, I know that people will argue about the value and importance of installing Linux on the Xbox, but let’s be honest here. Why would anybody really want to do this? I have a Xbox for one purpose, to play games. I have a PC that I run Linux on to do serious stuff. So again, what is the exact point of doing this. You can get a real computer with the same specs or better than the Xbox for a comparable price. Why then destroy the Xbox to run Linux? Please somebody give me a real reason outside of “because you can”.
Othewise, move along. There isn’t anything else to see here.
….
The point is that once you buy something, it is yours and you are free to do with it what you want. I know plenty of people who’ve bought cars off lots and changed out everything from engines to wheels to stereos. Some people even convert gas engines to diesel or vice versa. Sometimes they paint them different colors or add tinted windows. Are these people wasting their time? Is it wrong to modify a car beyond factory specs? How do you think these people would feel if GM came to their homes at night and reversed all the modifications their customers have made, then welded the hood shut for good measure?
Ok, I don’t care if you buy the X-box to play games or to use it as a Linux box or whatever. I’m am going to be impartial to the subject.
Lets put it this way, I you buy the He-Man castle (whatever the name is) does that means that you can’t use GI-Joes with the castle too. What Im trying to say is the day I can’t do whatever I want with what I buy (objects that belong to me) in this country, I am moving to Cuba and live under a Comunist or Socialist regime. What the hell is freedom in this country (USA just in case) if I can’t do whatever I want with the X-box that I just bought. Who cares what I do with it as long as have bought it. It is yours, it belongs to you. If you are a MS lover just shut up and accept the number one principle of this country, Freedom to do whatever we want with our own property. The day I buy things subjected to an agreement, then you stop buying things and you would be leasing stuff instead. Like somebody said, if you wanna use the thing as a stool, go ahead and do it, is your property.
Period.
are you really comparing cars and a game console??
It is just an analogy. Be open minded. Think outside of the system.
*** You are a Linux user. You are also an Xbox user. You develop code for Linux. You have decided to put Linux on your Xbox. This is where the fun begins!
On one side is the EVIL Microsoft, with various weapons, such as mod lawsuits, security patches, and other such weapons, including a LINUX ZAPPER especially designed for YOU!
On the other side is a loosely-federated group of renegades, including Michael Robertson of Lindows, who, with daring and determination, strive to battle their way into the Xbox with Linux…….
Some interesting additional features: Microsoft can change from the EVIL Microsoft to the GOOD Microsoft, by periodically sending some nice updates to the Xbox. Your objective is to successfully receive the perks from the GOOD Microsoft, while defending yourself from the EVIL Microsoft….
“Was the ability of installing linux one of the advertised features of the X-Box? Just because someone found a way to hack linux into the X-Box by exploiting some loophole doesn’t mean that now MS has no right to fix that loophole.”
So of course, you mean, “Fix that loophole and delete a user’s files”? Give me a break, people get prosecuted regularly for accessing/modifying/deleting files on an individual’s PC without consent. It’s illegal! It’s my business what’s on my X-Box, not Microsoft’s. Period. Furthermore, I bought my 98/2000/XP/X-Box software a certain way, and I’ll use it how I please. I’ll update if I think it’s beneficial, and I won’t if I don’t. This would be like Microsoft disabling installs of Mozilla in future releases because of a security hole it creates- except doing it in cognito- without user’s consent! But I’m not even going to get into the anti-competitive nature of this…
Don’t you like when people find a way to screw big corporations and get rich in the process?
Ah-oh, I didn’t know that coffee could be so hot it can burn my skin if I pour it on me! Gimme a million!
Ah-oh, I didn’t know one can’t dry a kitten in microwave! Now, because I am so devastated by the loss, give me few millions!
Ah-oh, I didn’t know XBox was not intended to run Linux. Now, because I made it to, through buffer overflow and font bugs, Microsoft must obey my command and touch nothing I planted in a box! Gimme, gimme, gimme the money!
———————–
Expect next release of XBox to contain a sticker: “XBox can only be used to run XBox OS and XBox games.”
Dude you are so right in my opinion.
But on the other hand Yes I could run Linux on XBox. So what that is under $200. (Well maybe matters for some people) I rather pay more but get something that is supported. Running Linux on XBox is asking for trouble. Maybe will work maybe not. This is a chance I don’t want to take. Maybe other do ..
yeah…..thanks for pointing that out to me…..its pretty bad though.
My point is this.
If you want to install the Linux on XBox that is fine that is your choice. But PLEASE do not talk about that MS is messing your system.
1. First they do tell you that update is availabla
2. They have equal right to do same thing that you are trying to do (Put something they told you not to do ex. Linux) And you did put it on. Hmmm
3. If you choice is to run Linux don’t complain that they are messing with your system. You are messing with theirs why they can do the same. Ok I know you did pay for your XBox. But look at it from MS/bussines point of view. If you are installing hacking their system (and some people do
than you /or others will try to hack theis system (Live). They are trying to protect themself from people making mods and f@#ing their system. They don’t know what are the intentions of each guy. If they would know that you are going to just run Linux and do nothing else I don’t think they would have much problem. It is just that someone will come up with some cool hack to bring XBox Live system down using Linux, and that is what they are afraid of. Try to put your position of running bussines. You would do exectly the same. Funny story here at my work indirectly related to
this. (BTW I have two linux boxes running at home)
In the early days of linux when Rad Hat was in its starting days I had some guys saying that Rad Har is some super company. Some time passed by and Rad Hat is not as good company anymore. Seems to me that some people just like to go for under dog for some reason. As soon as the layers and bussnes man gets in to picture same things happens. People start bitching.Ooo it is M$, Ooo it is Rad Hat.
Could we all get along? It is computer sience. zero and one. Can’t we just just relax.
>Also when you speak of hardware and running >apps….modding an xbox with a 120gb HD and a new >dashboard is simple. You can even disable the Flash BIOS >jumper so noone can update it. (games run much faster off >the HD then off the DVD)
>Also you can get your xbox on gamespy servers…etc with a >simple mod and then you don’t have to worry about the Xbox >Live fees.
Does anyone know if the new update gets rid of any evolution-x settings/applications or what ever?
apparently my comment earlier about the computer misuse act ruffled some feathers. it wasn’t an anti-microsoft flame nor was it pro linux-on-xbox. i couldn’t care less either way.
the point i was making was that under the law in the uk, anybody who modifies your computer (be it an xbox, pc, whatever) without your prior consent could be breaking the law. in the eyes of the law it does not matter if the intended purpose was a benefit to the user or not. it may still be illegal.
(note that i say MAY. i am no expert in these matters)
1 – Unlike software, I think you actually “own” and not lease the X-Box. Which means you can take a sledge hammer to it if you wanted to.
2 – The issue is not so much that the X-Box can or cannot be modded to install Linux (interesting thought) but that the normal process of the user approving the patch was circumvented. That is to say: Sure, you approve patches to the X-Box, but apparently this patch self-approves.
3 – The X-Box transmits statistical data about the X-Box and the games being played. As a whole, it is their machine but such data transmitting should be made know to the owner before they purchase the machine itself. Second, the statistical data allows for games to be “tailored” to audiences. In other words, you will see more of less over time and all games may seem to play the same because they are the same.
Actually, it’s only a bad analogy for people who have no training in logic. You missed the point in that an owner of property retains the right to do whatever he/she wants to said property. Neither Microsoft nor Ford/GM/Chrysler has the right to undo your changes. That’s the point.
First of all, they should have made it so it deletes files. What if Sun automatically updated Sparc Workstations firmware and deleted files? If you allow Microsoft to do this, how can you stop Scott McNeally from hacking any Solaris machine he ever sold? Fixing the “bug” is one thing (which is still dubious because the bug lets the user get more out of the machine).
So are they mean? Yes. Wrong? Yes. Illegal (In US)? Probably.
So on the face value it looks like this is a real stupid move. A linux user who buys an X-box is eventually going to cave and buy some games. This discourages part of their marketshare (although the size of the linux population that would buy X-Box is probably small). HOWEVER, this MIGHT increase Linux users buying X-Box. “How?” you ask. “You are out of your mind!” you add. “Ricky, get to the point, dammit!!!” you shout! Linux users buy the Xbox for the Challenge of hacking it. Now they added a new challenge to get around. It’s all part of the game.
Everyone knows Microsoft’s hamfisted tactics with it’s users. Nothing has changed in the 20 someodd years they have been in business. If you buy their products, you know full well they will do anything in their power to keep you locked into their products and their idea of secure and usability. This has been proven in court time after time. Nothing on Microsoft platform is private, nothing is secure. I get tired of people moaning and groaning over Microsoft’s latest attempt at spying or broken security fixes. You bought the software or hardware, you knew the risks, and you know Microsoft’s reputation. It’s your fault for being the sucker for the umpteenth time. If you don’t want Microsoft messing with your hardware, DON’T buy or use their products.
For all those complain that MS patched your dear console without your knowledge… You did push a “I agree” button before using the service, right? You did read and understood the licence agreement, right? If their Terms of Service gives them the right to update your Xbox and that you accepted the contract, it’s your problem. After RTFM, RTFC. At worst, don’t use Xbox Live. It’s that simple. It’s their network after all. Most of you don’t want “rogue” machines on yours, right? Well guess what: MS doesn’t either! It’s not like it was a public network.
Some people are hopeless…
“Microsoft make the hardware to sell at a loss in order to drive their gaming technology. Their agreement with the user gives them the right to patch bugs in the system – and when the bug is an exploit that people are using to get added functionality at Microsoft’s loss then I’d say in all fairness they have a right to patch that bug ”
This is illegal in some countries like KOrea was it, or Malysia with cellphones. Methinks that legislation is good. Compaies should not be allowed to hide costs from consumers. At least the law should make it such that if you sell hardware, the customers are allowed to do what they want with it. This business of selling network locked Xboxes is not good.
I have the XBOX ? I can put anything I damn please on it. Microsoft saying otherwise is illegal and immoral. Anyone doesn’t like it… don’t install it. I can… therefore I will.
PERIOD.
You can do what you want with your XBox.
However, since the XBox uses it’s own operating system, and the fact that you agreed to the Live! TOS and EULA, you effectively agreed for the OS to be able to download and install updates to fix known bugs.
That’s all it did. Unfortunately for you, this known bug was exploited to allow Linux to run on your XBox.
It’s a pitty Microsoft dont do this more often. For one thing those Virii that exploit the scripting bug in Outlook would have been nutralized within a matter of days. We wouldn’t still be seeing them NOW.
“However, since the XBox uses it’s own operating system, and the fact that you agreed to the Live! TOS and EULA, you effectively agreed for the OS to be able to download and install updates to fix known bugs.”
Uhh read the article, it says it must only be connected to the network. No live registration necessary.
no……i think your just an idiot….I saw his logic but how many times have we compared things to cars on this board….give me a break dude.