“Alan Nugent, CTO of Novell, thinks he knows how to drive wide adoption of the Linux desktop. How? Make it so users can’t tell (and don’t care) it’s not Windows, and make it so admins can manage thousands of Linux desktops as easily as Windows. ” Newforge has the article .
Making Linux More like Windows than Windows
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Adam Scheinberg
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… that there are plenty of us in enterprises who will PAY for this.
We’re not looking for freebies and “download yer own.” Novell/Ximian could make some real money on this.
“Make it so users can’t tell (and don’t care) it’s not Windows, and make it so admins can manage thousands of Linux desktops as easily as Windows.”
This is exactly what Linux needs! Easy to admin and a familiar behaviour for newbies.
How is it today? Several dozens of Linux distros, each a little bit different, focussed on different DEs with different look and feel, different file loacations, different applications … different … different… different…
That’s IMHO not the right way to get a huge userbase.
Uniformity is one of the keys to success (and was MS’s). “Freedom of choice” ist the argument of the linux freaks, (IMHO a good argument), but the average user dislikes to choose between five email clients, he wants *only* one that does the job.
couple of days ago. The GUI looked just like windows. I personally don’t like Kde,gnome. They consume way too much memory.
perhaps that is a miss-wording?
I mean, admining windows desktops is a pain…you have to run out to the end user any time you need to make a change to the way the end user does something.
I hope they mean, making changes for the end-user will be easy in a windows way and powerful in a linux/unix way.
‘///I mean, admining windows desktops is a pain…you have to run out to the end user any time you need to make a change to the way the end user does something. ‘///
This is solved by running Citrix in a Windows environment. 🙂
Im not a MS fan but Published Apps through Citrix is pretty sweet. 🙂
It’s comercial applications and their availablity that will make people move to and stay with Linux and not window-esque features or characteristics. You can re-create an exact replica of windows on Linux but it will lack the comercial applications that people are fond of in windows. Of course you can say that their are free alternatives to some of those comercial applications and I would agree. Yet not all of those OSS applications are solid, stable or have a clean interface. In the end it’s all about applications/developers, applications/developers, applications/developers, applications/developers people !!!!
With the help of companies like novell and SUN (see
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/08/06/HNmadhatter_1.html ), I think that gnome will, sooner or later, become the de facto standard for linux desktop.
I love(and use) KDE, but I can’t close my eyes to this.
I could come up with a smart remark about how the last thing I need is for Linux to be as easy to administer as Windows; I usually cringe when I have to do anything at one of those mouse-bound registry-ridden clicky interfaces of doom.
But my heart’s not in it, because in my real world, I run a Linux file server on a Windows network, and my cross-platform file serving option is Samba, and my multiplatform login is an NT domain controller, and even in my ideal little world where we ditched Windows altogether, I’d be stuck with something like NIS/NFS or some home-grown LDAP server and maybe some other more complex network filesystem which I’d have to personally install on each new workstation, as no one else could be bothered to.
I don’t manage thousands of desktops. I manage a half dozen servers and maybe a dozen developer and staff workstations in my copious free time. Right now the situation is grim. If I had a nice Linux or BSD interface (GUI or not) where I could administer logins and permissions across a network filesystem that acted the same on Linux and Windows, and better yet, could ditch the NT domain and not move to Active Directory, on a small office budget, I’d be an eager customer. I get scared by Novell’s site, with its vague descriptions of its software and its use of licensing rather than a one time purchase. Hopefully that will change.
Yes there was – http://www.xpde.com is the site you are looking for.
BTW – does it get any easier than webmin? Or Red Hat’s admin tools? I mean it’s WAAAAAY easier to set up a site with RH’s apache config tool than it is in IIS.
admining windows desktops is a pain
No it is not. It easy. Banks have thousands of windows desktops here, they find it easy and stable. Like it or not it is.
_____________________
This is exactly what Linux needs! Easy to admin and a familiar behaviour for newbies.
How is it today? Several dozens of Linux distros, each a little bit different, focussed on different
Making Linux like windows is not the key for success. Polishing the rough corners yes ! Apps ? Come on, there are dozens of different apps on Linux doing the same thing, the frustrating part is none of the apps works in an acceptable manner.
*Polishment not masquerading Linux* like windows.
I thought Novell wanted that,
but now seems like Ximian is turning Windows clone instead of polished and usable software like Evolution (a Linux perl and te only ximian product I know well).
gee thats useful, not that there arn’t others who are doing it anyway
but to be honest what can you expect from the company that said bringing professionalism to linux ?
Dav
“”Alan Nugent, CTO of Novell, thinks he knows how to drive wide adoption of the Linux desktop. How? Make it so users can’t tell (and don’t care) it’s not Windows, and make it so admins can manage thousands of Linux desktops as easily as Windows. ” Newforge has the article .”
I have one thing to say to this.
Will the real Linux please stand up?
I have been in IT training for a good while and now work with the community and I belive that the Gnome desktop is less confusing and more intuative than Windows for the complete novice.
If you want people to use Linux put it in Schools, colleges, Universities and community centres. It’s that simple.
I love the linux desktop because of Gnome – I don’t want a Windows clone, it would me no good to me and does nothing to raise the awereness of a Windows alternative.
I agree that we need commercial applications. My dad said he would switch to linux if there was a Linux compatible Lacerte (tax return program if anybody knows of one let me know hint hint). I did get his color laser printer to work with linux
I think the question then, is how to get more of these commercial applications (or very good open source alternatives, OpenOffice, Mozilla, and gimp). I think we need to get more people to use linux so that there will be more apps. Now this sounds like a Catch-22, but it really isn’t. A Catch-22 is when you’re damned if you do and your damned if you don’t. This is a case of well, I don’t know what to call it.
My point is, I think it’s easier to get more people to use linux than we currently have. There are some VERY good programs on linux that people could use to get by every day. I think the community or Vendors need to concentrate on schools, religious, and other non-profit organizations. These places cannot afford to pay for per-seat licensing. We then move on to Small businesses (redhat is taking care of the big businesses
but not much else 
for now 😐 ) and then finally to home users.
Why do I say this? While there are more people to convince than if we got commercial vendors to make the software first, I think it’s almost impossible to convince the software manufacturerer’s without more users. Why? Well, you can go to schools and churches and show them linux, but it’s harder to get the ear of a CEO or product manager. However, if we get enough linux users, they will notice a trend.
Just my opinion, I’m not claiming to have all knoledge. BTW, is Alan Nugent related to Ted Nugent?
OK, so who is going to code
1. bsod-i386.rpm
2. bsod-i586.rpm
3. bsod-i386.deb
I mean, if we are going to do this, we might as well do it right.
FICTION : In a company, employees need Windows to perform their tasks.
FACT : once you’re hired, you use the tools you’re provided with. Since you don’t make purchase decisions, you can’t oblige the owner to use Windows instead of MacOS or Linux.
FICTION : in order to have an alternative to Windows on the desktop (with PC hardware), one must use Linux.
FACT : most open source desktop environment run on *BSD as well as Linux.
FICTION : Novell is the one who can give enterprises a good Linux desktop experience.
FACTS : Not long ago, Novell was treating Linux with contempt. Having swallowed their pride, they recently purchased Ximian. There is no proof that in less than one month they have been able to merge Ximian products with Netware.
FICTION : Novell is the perfect vehicle for those who consider getting rid of Windows.
FACTS : By many accounts, Netware is a superb networking OS. Yet Novell has never been able to present it anyone as an alternative to Windows.
FICTION : Europeans may be ready to jump to Netware because they distrust Microsoft.
FACT : Netware is as proprietary as Windows. It doesn’t possess any intrinsic trustworthiness.
FICTION : Sun executives see an imminent opportunity for Linux on the desktop.
FACTS : Sun is trying to figure out how to dodge the open source bullet in order to salvage its software business. Also, they really don’t understand how Intel can make so much money while selling chips mainly used by low life Jane Does who are broke most of the time, instead of catering principally to wealthy governments and big corporations.
FICTION : Linux was conceived only as a server OS.
FACT : Linus Torvald develops and uses it as a desktop OS too, according to his own declarations.
FICTION : Linux survival depends on big corporations adoption.
FACTS : Anyone with sufficient skills can contribute to its improvement (even homeless people who have access to a computer and an IDE). For instance, neither Debian nor Slackware rely on corporations for their survival.
OK, so who is going to code
1. bsod-i386.rpm
2. bsod-i586.rpm
3. bsod-i386.deb
I mean, if we are going to do this, we might as well do it right.
================================
LOLOL sorry I had to laugh at that
I think an easy to use Linux desktop more like windows is needed badly. I really enjoy XPDE but I wish it was more stable.
But I wouldn’t run a server on that BS – why do you people care what they do? if they want to integrate xfree into the kernel FINE let them do it, we will always have the hacker/minimalist distros like gentoo and debian.
If Linux had something like Microsoft’s SMS, Novell’s ZENWorks or Tivoli’s Enterprise management, I’d take a serious look at it. As it is, Red Blanket still isn’t ready for prime time. There’s still too much left to be implemented. The only viable solution is that monstrosity known as CA Unicenter-TNG. Not only is the learning curve vertical, so is the pricing. And the fun part is, the license doesn’t allow you to configure it yourself, you gotta let CA’s support people do it for you. Finally, it’s a SLUG! Anything that can bog down a Sun Starfire so it runs like a 386 w/Windows NT has got to be really ugly!
https://www6.software.ibm.com/reg/devworks/dw-tv-tamlinux-i?ca=dgr-l…
Here is my 2 cents worth.
History shows that for an OS to actually take off as windows has done, more games are required. Not Tux Racer or some of those others, but modern games. UT2K3 is a good start with the installer on the 3rd CD (not advertised on the box), as well as the fact that RTCW is native as well thanks to ID Software. WineX is halfway there, but still not fully. Once more of the good games run natively on Linux, then more will use it as a desktop. If not for that Macs would be more popular as well. Although there are many more games for Macs then for Linux.
Again, just my opinion, as Linux with OpenOffice.org fills the bill for general office applications, and I can do everything with Linux I can with windows. If it wasn’t for the games I would get rid of windows altogether myself.
As for Linux being easier to admin than windows.. It already is.
Wether we like it or not, this is how it has to be in order to make the money and the dent in a windows world that these companies want to make. There will be enough command line left for the rest of us but to sell to the corporate and IT world, I think he is 100% correct.
No-one in enterprise needs Unreal Tourament 2k3 on their desktops. Introverted acne-ridden teens need games, but there isn’t much money in them anyway.
Although I think KDE is a fair product, GNOME making progress with the big players is better at the end of the day, IMHO. Making companies pay for using QT in their applications will turn them off Linux development. If GNOME becomes the standard, this becomes a non-issue. I know this is a battle faught long ago, but it is more relevant today than ever. Also GNOME is simpler, which may not suit a hobbiest (sp?), but does suit enterprise, who don’t want users tweaking their desktops.
Lastly, for the love of god GNOME, ship with a better GTK theme! I know this is way OT, but christ!
The truly asinine thing about the premise of this article is that it assumes that M$ is standing still on the look and feel of their operating systems. I’ve got news for you: They ain’t. The screenshots for Windows Longhorn are still evolving. If you’re gonna try to match their UI, your efforts are always gonna be a version behind. Plus, no matter how much Linsux tries, it always looks like a cheap copy.
Managing networks as easy as Windows? May sound unlike me, but I don’t know too much sysadmins who uses both Windows and Linux prefering the Windows way of things.
OK, so who is going to code
1. bsod-i386.rpm
2. bsod-i586.rpm
3. bsod-i386.deb
I mean, if we are going to do this, we might as well do it right.
Just make a cron job that reboots the machine every day … Windows users won’t notice the difference then
I completely agree with the fact that linux is always different….
Linux is quite a lot dependent on it’s community.. They develop, improve, secure, and even more!
But why can’t the commmunity make a website ‘Linux standards’ or something like that with only the best app’s (and not more than 1) for a task. The other app’s can still be used by the more advanced users. (When starting with linux, -for me- the choice of software e.g. was the hardest.
Conclusion:
Community: create a website dedicated to linux standards so new users can use them. After a while (when they know linux better), they’ll automatically decide wether they will keep using that particular program or want something better.
Community: create a website dedicated to linux standards so new users can use them. After a while (when they know linux better), they’ll automatically decide wether they will keep using that particular program or want something better.
Yeah right, 90% of the Windows users don’t know if there is something like Mozilla, they just keep using IE or whatever comes with their computer.
As long as users don’t even look for alternatives on their current OS, how do you expect them to switch to another OS altogether?
No-one in enterprise needs Unreal Tourament 2k3 on their desktops. Introverted acne-ridden teens need games, but there isn’t much money in them anyway.
Maybe it’s true, but in a few years, this acne-ridden teens will be the enterprise’s employees, and thanks to the time they spent in a Windows PC in games, they’ll need less training in this platform to get ready to work.
“No-one in enterprise needs Unreal Tourament 2k3 on their desktops. Introverted acne-ridden teens need games, but there isn’t much money in them anyway.”
True, no one in enterprise needs it. I am looking at the big picture. People want and will use the same OS at home as they do at work for the most part. In order to really make good in the enterprise, it also has to fit the needs of the home user is my main point. One of those home needs is entertainment, since one of the focus of the MS Desktop is to replace the home entertainment system. I work as a Sysadmin, and the unfortunate truth is that the IT professionals do not dictate what a company uses for a platform, but rather the users do.
On the other note, I am 40, but that doesn’t mean I still don’t like to play games.
“Yeah right, 90% of the Windows users don’t know if there is something like Mozilla, they just keep using IE or whatever comes with their computer.
As long as users don’t even look for alternatives on their current OS, how do you expect them to switch to another OS altogether?”
People do know there is something else than windows when more and more people start to use it…
But what frightens them is “oh no there is no internet explorer, but there is Opera, Mozilla, Firebird, Konqueror, …..” – this leads to confusion and demotivation
Don’t make me laugh too hard.
I’ve been playing with the copy of OO that came with YDL and guess what I discovered?
NO COPY AND PASTE
They have every annoying feature that MS has ever put into a word processor and yet don’t have a BASIC like copy and paste.
OO is useless to me as a word processor because of this. I do a lot of writing and C&P is one of my most used editing tools.
Linux and OO have a lot of potential, but neither is ready for prime time yet.
Are you sure? Try type something, double click on the word. Open Edit menu, voila! cut, copy, paste… or just use those icons shaped like scissor, double papers, and clipboard. Middle mouse click/right click also do the trick.
Of course you cannot copy and paste if you don’t have anything to copy/paste right? 🙂
“Don’t make me laugh too hard.
I’ve been playing with the copy of OO that came with YDL and guess what I discovered?
NO COPY AND PASTE
They have every annoying feature that MS has ever put into a word processor and yet don’t have a BASIC like copy and paste.
OO is useless to me as a word processor because of this. I do a lot of writing and C&P is one of my most used editing tools.
Linux and OO have a lot of potential, but neither is ready for prime time yet. ”
Nonsense. OpenOffice.org does have copy and paste. I use it daily. And if you need to copy between different applications, then ue the klipper, the little notepad that sits on your taskbar, to select the portion of text you wish to copy.
I am sick and tired of this bullshit about Linux not being ready for the desktop. You may not be ready, but Linux certainly is.
I work with kids and adults in a community center that runs linux exclusively. Nobody has had a problem learning to use it and most of these people had zero computer experience previously.
Take care.
You want Windows. Install Windows, moron and stop wasting my time!!!!
The way I see it, there is great need for programs in these sectors
Economics – Both for home and office. Stable stuff that get’s update with new tax stuff etc.
IM Client – Not just some simple ones, but like Messenger which supports voice, and like ICQ which can pull out all your contacts from server after install
Games – Which runs out of the box without any hazzle at all. Lots of them
Fast webbrowser – As far as I know I think Firebird is probably the best one and most compatible one out there. But is it fast in Linux? That is, XP Fast.
Logical Disk Management – Windows is pretty easy to understand in relation to how you store files and find files. Linux has to improve a LOT here. [email protected] doesn’t have a sysadmin to take care of him
Media – Windows has a lot of nice features for DVD’s amoung others. Commercial software like WinDVD is excellent.
Understandable backcompatibility – What happens when you uninstall a program. Will all others run flawlessly? If not, then Linux is not even close to ready.
No need of ever using a commandline again. As long as you need commandline to do anything, I’d call Linux anything but user friendly… and for many occasions that is a must. Linux is simply so far away from desktop use that it’s hardly understandable…
We don’t want to have to remember a odd command to do something in CLI. Distros can still have the CLI, but we want a way to do everything we want in the GUI. We need a control panel with modules to configure all the options possible. Webmin is easy, distro makers should take a hint from them, & distro makes should atleast make the files go in the same place. I read a story that says there are 130+ distroes, they probably put the same files in about 130+ diferent places. AQ big help *prepares for flames* would be for more programs come in a COMPILED FORM.
In the version of Open Office that ships with YDL 3.0 Copy and Paste does not work.
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/support/
“OpenOffice does not copy-n-paste
Yes, we are aware of this. We are hoping a revised version of OO will correct this.”
I know because I am writing an article in it. Paste is greyed out in the edit menu. crtl V does nothing.
It was a real PITA to have to retype a paragraph by hand because I could not use c&p to swap the order of some paragraphs.
Like I said, OO is now crippleware to me.
As much as I read here, I can see one major problem looming in the back. Which I had 2 years ago when I first installed Mandrake. I didn’t try enough. I didn’t want to learn. So at the first problem I encountered, I re-installed Windows.
Now saying there’s no good IM client in Linux is BS. Gaim is very complete, almost as Trillian. It gets your contacts from the server-side for ICQ.
As for webbrowsers, Firebird is much faster in Linux, and i heard Opera is even faster than Firebird.
As for Logical Disk Management, I’m sorry but when i first installed DOS 3.0 I had a pretty hard time understanding where files where. You just have to learn. People are way too lazy.
As for media, all the players (read mp3, dvd, avi, etc) I used in Linux are MUCH more better than the ones in Windows.
As for people saying there’s too many choices in Linux when it comes down to choosing a program for a task. I’m sorry, but there’s as many choices in Windows, if not more. I know a lot of different compressing utilies, email clients, ftp-client programs, <insert any program type>.
I admit there’s some apps needed for Linux, as a proper tax program. A few more games would be cool too. But most games can be played with Codeweavers (fork of Wine).
People should stop talking shit outta there ass.
Sorry, but I have to say… Linux desktops suck… KDE sucks, Gnome sucks, … sucks, … sucks, sucks…
Windows has a very user appealing environment, Apple has too, BeOS had too, but these open source environments just suck suck and suck…
They look like Java’s unpolished Metal Look and Feel. But there are JGoodies and Alloy LNF for Java users, what’s there for Linux users?
Designing a good environment’s only requirement is not a group of good programmers. The most important thing is a group of creative graphics designers. Every widget on Linux is sucking…
I wish Gnome and KDE become a Windows-killer as soon as possible, but sorry! they just suck right now…
you obviously has never seen what you can do with karamba. as for eye candy, even Mac OSX can’t beat that.
Thats where the s@#t hit the fan in my book. If linux gets as easy to manipulate as windows were all in trouble. Linux is secure and powerful because its not as wide spread as windows on the desktop. This is because ppl are think of linux as a “geeks OS” which makes them afraid of it’s complexity and the learning curve. I like this aspect of linux. Shure it makes me feel l33t but I have 10 years invested in this OS and I’d sure hate for some cash monger corporation to screw it up and make it more like Windows. The reason why I bailed from windows was because it was crap. Why the hell would I want Linux to be like windows….for love or money?
-N
“Windows is pretty easy to understand in relation to how you store files and find files.”
OMG you have got to be kidding.