I’m 31 and an old school geek who started on computers with an Atari 800 as a kid. Growing up moved me into PC land until I became a “Switcher” before being a “Switcher” was cool. That’s right – I got an original iMac when they first came out and I never looked back. I write software, and I bought the iMac thinking it was time to expand my horizons and maybe make a few more dollars by selling software on both platforms.
I never planned on switching to the Mac. I really didn’t. I never thought it was a serious machine, but I did see it as a potential market – and I figured it would look good on the resume. The problem though was my little G3 powered plastic Mac was speedier than my PC at the time despite having less clock cycles to work in. Not only that, it didn’t crash and burn like Windows did. Long before hip OS X, the iMac had me sold on Apple.
Now, as I said, I do work for Macs and PCs. Still do. So, I have always had a PC around. So you might ask how that makes me a “Switcher.” Well, I only use my PC when a job requires it and I do anything and everything I can on my Macs. Much of a PC project can still be done on the Mac and I do anything I can to steer clear of Windows. I play my video games, e-mail and surf the net on a Mac.
My newest PC was a P3 650Mhz bought when that was as fast as the little Coppermine went. In terms of computer years, this thing is an antique. The itch started… the MHz sales pitch… bigger is better… buy more now! I was thinking of getting a new PC. That’s something that hadn’t crossed my mind in a long, long time.
I decided to give my father my old P3 (since my attempts to get him to buy an iMac have thus far proven unsuccessful) to replace his chisel and stone powered Pentium machine. I ordered all the goodies to build a new PC. Not that most of it is important other than the 2.4Ghz CPU (of the inside flavor) and a GeForce 4Ti 4600 128MB, the same card I have in my 800Mhz dual processor Power Mac G4.
This is the stuff people rant, and I mean RANT, about on the internet. The speed and video drivers that the Mac will never have. Graphics glory us PowerPC wanna be geeks dream about.
Well, I got it. So what do I think? Uhm, some more background first.
When I said I’m a geek, I really meant it. I’m a computer nerd. I love to play with new hardware and try out different operating systems. It’s one of the reasons why I keep an eye on OSNews so much. I loved BeOS. It was great. I’ve run many flavors of Linux and BSD. I’ve booted Darwin on x86 and played with Sun boxes. You name it, I like it. And I still have a mint Atari 800 running.
That said, I want to say – Unlike many Mac users, I’m not loyal to Apple in any way.
Is the new PC faster than my old P3? Yes. Is it almost four times as fast as the CPU clock speeds would make it seem? No. Does it blaze circles around my Mac like the PC guys swear it will? No way.
One of the first things I wanted to try out was my all time favorite game – Quake III. I have seen tons of benchmarks showing through-the-roof framerates on PCs running the demos. Numbers that make you think the PC does kill the Mac. I don’t play a demo so I just fired up a map and started playing with the framerate displayed in the corner. I figure that’s as close to actually playing the game as you can get.
I’ve got different sized LCDs so the PC was running at 1024×768 and the Mac at 1280×1024. Both in 32 bit color with maximum settings on all options. Running around and killing all the bots dishes out almost equal frame rates. They are so close there is no way to say one is better than the other, except for the fact that the Mac is running at a larger screen resolution so it does look better.
That’s two 800Mhz G4s pitted against the 2.4Ghz x86 (of the inside variety). That really makes me believe the Megahertz myth firsthand.
How about everything else? It’s good. That’s about all I can say. Surfing the Internet in Mozilla on both OSs gives nearly identical results. I use Photoshop daily and the dual processors just burn the x86. That’s not fake when Apple is showing that. That doesn’t mean everything is faster on the Mac because it isn’t.
If I had to choose which is more productive throughout an entire day of working on the computer, it would go to the Mac hands down. Things work better with less problems. I can run lots of applications at once without the machine slowing to a crawl or throwing up the blue screen of death. I can thank OS X for that. Steve Jobs wasn’t just scamming Apple when he sold them Next and the foundation for OS X.
So my flirting with the other side is still just that – flirting. I have a tool I will use when I need to and it will likely last me a long time but the PC just isn’t everything that the PC guys say it is. At least I own and use both, most people that tell me a PC is better than a Mac have never owned one. Come to think of it, everyone I know with a Mac thinks it’s better than a PC and most have both. That says something.
I praise Macs any time I get the chance. I do. But it’s not because of blind brand loyalty. They are making the best computers around. Period. I want the best and that’s why I use the Mac. That’s not coming from a Mac head since 1984 either. This is someone who uses both platforms and only wants to use the coolest toys. I’ll switch platforms again if something better comes along. But OS X is so far ahead of XP that’s not going to happen anytime soon with a product from Redmond.
As for hardware, there is the speed race that was supposedly over that really isn’t a speed race since a new 2.4Ghz isn’t killing my old 800Mhz G4s. In fact, I still feel like my Mac is the faster computer. The only speed race likely to happen is what looks to be Intel and AMD trying to catch up to the way cool stylin’ G5.
But that’s neither here nor there. I’m still a “Switcher” and look to be for some time. I think competition is good so bring on the new hardware and software. I’ll try it all out. But at the end of the day when it’s time to go home I’ll be playing on my Power Mac.
About the author:
Sean Rose (srose at cycline3.com) does programming, design and some unusual model rocketry products at Cycline3.com. He even sheds the nerd persona now and again for some hardcore mountain biking in the beautiful hills of West Virginia.
Do you even know What FSB IS?
Or how it works?
What makes you the Export in that field?
Are you a CPU Designer?
Second, the author talks about the great quality of Macs. I feel this is misleading, and most people don’t realize just how misleading. Simply put: if you are buying towers, and powerbooks, (and perhaps I-books, haven’t tested them) you are probably getting a quality machine. But I speak from experience when I say that I-Macs (of which our computer labs have a few varieties of) are the evillest things to work with. They all use cheap (=substandard) parts. They have all been in for hardware repair at some point in time, whether it was the CRT (on the older ones), hard-drive, motherboard… with an average failure rate over 5 times more than PCs which cost half their price. We have had 2 mac-specific techs in our lab who used to love Macs, and then left basically crying after a year, because of all the stress managing them brought.
3 1/2 years ago i bought 4 imacs and 1 powermac for our office.
We also had one G3 powermac already.
As of yet none of them has been sent for repairs. granted on slot drive doesn’t work on one of the imacs (kids stuck some pennies in it) and the G3 was thrown of a loading dock at an expo (it works fine, although the side panel is held closed with packing tape).
Before that the office had an old PM 8500 that was repaired once (kids stuck nachos in the disk drive– those darn kids).
The only mac i ever had to ship for repairs is my own TiBook (btw never throw a TiBook down a flight of stairs, it breaks the screen
In the meantime the office has gone through 5-6 PCs (on seat) just to run auto-cad. Wish we could get some architects that could use a modern cad program such as VectorWorks or ArchieCAD (Auto CAD practically hasn’t evolved in 10 years).
And as for all the trolling and flaming.
AMAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA
you don’t have anything else to waste your time on
First paragraph was supposed to be a quote from Modab
Duh!
And where did I say that Apple SUCK? Why are you putting words in my mouth? You need to calm down. I’m no Windows fan boy ether. Do you think that I really like Windows? Boy, you are so confused. I would much rather Use OS X then Windows.
Why? Cause I like it, that’s why. But sadly to say it is not available for PC users. Thanks to Apple. I’m not talking about the Apple’s OS here, or how friendly the OS X works, or how “Unstable my Windows are” Fact is simple there is no such thing as Perfect OS.
I’m talking about Apple’s attitude. Half ASS Explanations that they give to PC Enthusiast’s that are building there own systems and are truly aware of how and what makes Computer Fast.
What Bugs me is that Apple Takes the latest PC Hardware and then turns around and trashes the entire PC architecture, the very sours of there successes. Most Apple People have very Limited Computer Understanding; the only thing they know is what Apple tells them. What Makes Apple Apple today? All Components came from some where else. What makes Apple So ADVANCED today, how can you surpass PC if you are in fact using Latest PC hardware. Please don’t tell me that Apple has INVENTED PPC 970 or
The HyperTransport Technology, Or the AGP, PCI, USB, SATA, DDR and so on.
All of those things came from IBM, INTEL, and AMD. And you call as THEAFS?
And don’t tell me about the MHZ Myth or Opteron’s FSB Myth. The only Myth that exists today is Apple. Even though the G4 500Mhz has only 4 stage pipe line it is no where near as fast as 7 stage pipe line G4 1.2Ghz. Oh wait According to Steve Jobs it is other way around. Short pipe=Faster Performance. I wonder what happen to that explanation. Where is the logic? I just love how Apple contradicts its own statements. Fact is, MHz Duos matter end of story. Why? Cause 800Mhz G4 is faster then 500MHz G4 that is the fact.
What happen to the anti IBM Apple. How quickly Apple users have forgotten that. Apple was so anti IBM in 80’s that they would not even employ former IBM People.
First you trash then, and then you praise them. Way to go Apple.
What exactly Apple has invited today to be SO Called “INOVATING COMPANY”. What exactly they have invented with in 5 Years?
Problem is that Apple Users are driven by Loyalty and nothing more. “Well my Apple is better the your Apple”. Whatever, use what the hell you want to use, I care less. It is your God given Freedom to do so, just don’t tell me that MAC is better or faster, cause it not.
well as everyone has already told ya undo the 80 fps limit the config files have set and then compare the 2. You’ll see ur pc beating the mac hands down.
Now here’s the reason I prefer PC’s, price to performance is simply lower then the mac. Nothing else to it. No matter how fast they get, they’ll keep raising the price to it so that it’ll stay in its little niche. After all steve jobs said this that he believes people will pay a premium for his brand of computers. Doesn’t look that way. PC’s are cheaper because there are so many different sources to buy one from at a decent price that it keeps competition in check. After all if you wanted something that looks nice, you bet it will cost you more money. But if Mac’s do become the norm, the trend of windows being targeted will change to mac’s being targeted. Whatever is more popular will be targeted. No matter what you do. Then mac users will have to be constantly updating dealing with the latest e-mail virus being sent around. However I can’t see this happening, as price is a factor first. Not the other way around.
Atari… how come everyone has to mention some freaking version of some freaking hardware that came from somewhere back in the day? Does that prove you’re a geek? Well perhaps, but my version of a geek doesn’t necessarily collide with someone that’s smart, I guess the word “geek” has been used as a euphimism for nerd, but geeks aren’t nerds, they’re just dorky and like computers and are fascinated by science (not necessarily competent).
Do you think you’re building up some kind of pathos (emotional appeal) by trying to selectively reminisce with ex-atari users (in this case masses refers to probably about a group of 3 or so people). Whenever I read articles like this, I shudder on the very first few lines. Sure, I used some really old stuff from back in the day like a TI something with keyboard and cartridge slots and smelled like burned circuit boards, but I don’t go around using that as the logos (logical appeal) to why I’m a good candidate to write a computer article criticism.
And eugenia, you did well by purging the posts to some apple article where everyone went off topic, that gave me the biggest grin!
I guess the author has a point despite his tired and formulaic writing methodology, pc’s are just cheaper to work with than apple (initial costs). I can do everything on my pc that I can do on my mac, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but always cheaper. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve owned a few macs before, but I had to sell cause it was eating me out of house and home (just sold my powerbook 15.2″).
Sure the apple is oodles more comfortable to look at especially if you use computers a lot like me. But I’m starting to become less attach to computers and actually finding life itself a lot more interesting.
“I’m talking about Apple’s attitude. Half ASS Explanations that they give to PC Enthusiast’s that are building there own systems and are truly aware of how and what makes Computer Fast.”
Apple gives you Spec benchmarks, independent research testing, and real world tests to show what makes their computers faster. What more do you want?
“What Bugs me is that Apple Takes the latest PC Hardware and then turns around and trashes the entire PC architecture, the very sours of there successes.
Apple doesn’t “take” the “PC architecture”, they use open technologies. That’s not something that is specific to PCs. Its naieve for you to phrase your comment like this.
“Most Apple People have very Limited Computer Understanding; the only thing they know is what Apple tells them.”
Am I to assume that you think that Most PC people have an advanced knowledge of their systems? The ratio of geeks to average users is probbaly roughly similar between platforms when putting each platforms overall user-base into perspective.
“What Makes Apple Apple today? All Components came from some where else.”
That statement is incorrect. Some of the components used within Apple systems come from other places and some are those which Apple created.
“What makes Apple So ADVANCED today, how can you surpass PC if you are in fact using Latest PC hardware.”
Apple uses the latest PC hardware as well as hardware that is not available on desktop PC systems. A couple examples include a GHz Bus and a G5 processor.
“Please don’t tell me that Apple has INVENTED PPC 970 or
The HyperTransport Technology, Or the AGP, PCI, USB, SATA, DDR and so on.”
Apple co-developed the PPC 970 with IBM and is a key member of the HyperTransport consortium… (they co-developed this technology as well)
“And don’t tell me about the MHZ Myth”
Are you trying to say that no such myth exists? If so, you are incorrect.
“The only Myth that exists today is Apple.”
Not at all. They are a genuine company.
“Even though the G4 500Mhz has only 4 stage pipe line it is no where near as fast as 7 stage pipe line G4 1.2Ghz.
Nobody ever said that the G4 500Mhz is anywhere near as fast as a G4 1.2Ghz.
“Oh wait According to Steve Jobs it is other way around.
Steve never said anything of the sort. The comparison why you are obviously mis-understanding is the lower MHz Macs compared to higher MHz PCs. For much of the G4’s life, the G4 9with a lower MHz was faster or the same speed as a PC with an x86 chip with higher MHz.
“Short pipe=Faster Performance. I wonder what happen to that explanation.”
You obviously misunderstood the statement that was made.
“Fact is, MHz Duos matter end of story.”
MHz does matter when comparing chips of the same family, but is a useless gauge when comparing between two different ones.
“What happen to the anti IBM Apple.”
It changed a long time ago when all that is IBM became all that which is Intel and Microsoft.
“What exactly Apple has invited today to be SO Called “INOVATING COMPANY”.”
Apple has innovated several technologies.
“What exactly they have invented with in 5 Years? “
Firewire and Rendezvous are two technologies that you might be familiar with.
“Problem is that Apple Users are driven by Loyalty and nothing more.”
That loyalty is earned by way of producing great technology.
“just don’t tell me that MAC is better or faster, cause it not.”
A Mac is better and faster.
Not meaning to sound like a troll, but I really think Eugenia should think about setting up “blog.osnews.com” and sticking all these “articles” in there. I don’t see how some-personal-experience-story-from-some-random-guy qualifies in any way as NEWS. It’s a blog-entry; no more. All these “Why I use OSX” or “My Introduction to Red Hat 9” stories really aren’t news-worthy… let’s not call it that. I know it’s not that big a deal…readers can always just skip the story altogether; but the increasing frequency in which these “stories” are getting posted is alarming. A typical day of OSNews headlines reads:
“More SCO FUD”
“Mozilla releases 1.4.01RC18”
“Some guy tries Linux”
“Mac Zealot says Macs are Kewl – PC guy disagrees”
It almost sounds more like headlines from http://bbspot.com
And I apologize if I sound ingrateful for the job being done here…I think this site is a wonderful resource. But when the comments being left are 1000x more interesting than the story itself, you’ve got to wonder.
“I’m talking about Apple’s attitude. Half ASS Explanations that they give to PC Enthusiast’s that are building there own systems and are truly aware of how and what makes Computer Fast.”
Apple gives you Spec benchmarks, independent research testing, and real world tests to show what makes their computers faster. What more do you want?
“What Bugs me is that Apple Takes the latest PC Hardware and then turns around and trashes the entire PC architecture, the very sours of there successes.
Apple doesn’t “take” the “PC architecture”, they use open technologies. That’s not something that is specific to PCs. Its naieve for you to phrase your comment like this.
“Most Apple People have very Limited Computer Understanding; the only thing they know is what Apple tells them.”
Am I to assume that you think that Most PC people have an advanced knowledge of their systems? The ratio of geeks to average users is probbaly roughly similar between platforms when putting each platforms overall user-base into perspective.
“What Makes Apple Apple today? All Components came from some where else.”
That statement is incorrect. Some of the components used within Apple systems come from other places and some are those which Apple created.
“What makes Apple So ADVANCED today, how can you surpass PC if you are in fact using Latest PC hardware.”
Apple uses the latest PC hardware as well as hardware that is not available on desktop PC systems. A couple examples include a GHz Bus and a G5 processor.
“Please don’t tell me that Apple has INVENTED PPC 970 or
The HyperTransport Technology, Or the AGP, PCI, USB, SATA, DDR and so on.”
Apple co-developed the PPC 970 with IBM and is a key member of the HyperTransport consortium… (they co-developed this technology as well)
“And don’t tell me about the MHZ Myth”
Are you trying to say that no such myth exists? If so, you are incorrect.
“The only Myth that exists today is Apple.”
Not at all. They are a genuine company.
“Even though the G4 500Mhz has only 4 stage pipe line it is no where near as fast as 7 stage pipe line G4 1.2Ghz.
Nobody ever said that the G4 500Mhz is anywhere near as fast as a G4 1.2Ghz.
“Oh wait According to Steve Jobs it is other way around.
Steve never said anything of the sort. The comparison why you are obviously mis-understanding is the lower MHz Macs compared to higher MHz PCs. For much of the G4’s life, the G4 9with a lower MHz was faster or the same speed as a PC with an x86 chip with higher MHz.
“Short pipe=Faster Performance. I wonder what happen to that explanation.”
You obviously misunderstood the statement that was made.
“Fact is, MHz Duos matter end of story.”
MHz does matter when comparing chips of the same family, but is a useless gauge when comparing between two different ones.
“What happen to the anti IBM Apple.”
It changed a long time ago when all that is IBM became all that which is Intel and Microsoft.
“What exactly Apple has invited today to be SO Called “INOVATING COMPANY”.”
Apple has innovated several technologies.
“What exactly they have invented with in 5 Years? ”
Firewire and Rendezvous are two technologies that you might be familiar with.
“Problem is that Apple Users are driven by Loyalty and nothing more.”
That loyalty is earned by way of producing great technology.
“just don’t tell me that MAC is better or faster, cause it not.”
A Mac is better and faster.
Wow you obvisly know what you are talking about.
Great work.
Apple did not Developed anything for 5 years that is the fact. Fire Wire is the Only thing that was mad by Apple.
PPC 970 is not an Apple CO-DISIGHN, get it strait. Apple has no CPU design team to the recourses to do such a thing. PPC 970 is IBM not APLLE.
Second, you dual Busses are no match for Opteron. Also the Dual Busses came from Dec in the EV 6, Long before Apple and was adopted by AMD.
Last thing AGP, PCI, PCI-X Duel Channel Memory did
Not come from Apple. It came From AMD, INTEL and IBM.
Do your self a favor go on line, and do some research before
Posting your nonsense. Apple is using PC parts that is the fact don’t believe me
HyperTrasport is made by AMD and it is in side your PC G5.
Yes, the truth Bytes Hard! WOW so difficult to admit that there are PC parts in the Mac Today, Particularly the AGP which was Infarct developed by Intel to overcome the bottle necks.
Steve never said anything of the sort. The comparison why you are obviously mis-understanding is the lower MHz Macs compared to higher MHz PCs. For much of the G4’s life, the G4 9with a lower MHz was faster or the same speed as a PC with an x86 chip with higher MHz
Realy! Read again! Steve Jobs was saying in the his presentation that the shorter piple line=faster performance.
Read again!
Educate your self first.
http://www.flashua.com/maamdhyper.html
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020506S0019
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/buses/types/agp-c.html
http://support.premiopc.com/faqs/agp.htm
http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer/classes/473/notes/pci.html
http://www.macbuyersguide.com/editorials/editorial-ppc970.htm
http://jhoover.weblogdog.com/archive/1/2003-6-9
Benchmarks! READ
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
Read
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296
As you can see Apple has not DEVELOPED ANYTHING FOR 5 YEAES.
APPLE IS USING PC PART, FACE THE FACTS.
I have been using PCs since the 8086, and have never owned a Mac, i also am a linux user so what i say is only an opinion. From the very little i have dabbled with mac i cannot say i think that they are a whole lot faster then the x86 platform. But then again i haven’t had the opportunity to try out a new, state of the art Mac… The reason why i don’t switch from PC to Mac is almost purely based on price alone, i’m not much to get into this fanatical stuff… my primary interest is linux, and i cannot justify spending alot of money to buy an extra fancy computer to run linux on that’s no faster then my current PC. I am interested in this new ppc970 from ibm, i hope that ibm comes out with an inexpensive workstation with this processor in it, if they do i’ll be in line to get it.
Just my two cents
“ I can run lots of applications at once without the machine slowing to a crawl or throwing up the blue screen of death”
What is he talking about ? Is that guy simply cut and pasted an old article from 1995 and just changed to computer model so it fit as of today ?
Blue screen of wha ???
Lots of application that slow down to a crawl on a TWO POINT FOUR GIGAHERTZ ???
“Apple did not Developed anything for 5 years that is the fact. Fire Wire is the Only thing that was mad by Apple.”
Aside from a huge number of innovations in-which Apple made dramatic improvements on already existent technologies, Apple created FireWire from scratch and also created Rendezvous from scratch and also created Quartz Extreme from scratch.
“PPC 970 is not an Apple CO-DISIGHN, get it strait.”
Yes, The PPC970 was co-developed by Apple. Both Apple and IBM has said this. (IBM in the most recent Morld Wide Developers conference and Apple on their web page:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
“Apple has no CPU design team to the recourses to do such a thing. PPC 970 is IBM not APLLE.”
Apple does employ some CPU designers and The PPC 970 was jointly designed by IBM and Apple.
“Second, you dual Busses are no match for Opteron. Also the Dual Busses came from Dec in the EV 6, Long before Apple and was adopted by AMD.”
I understand what you’re trying to say… you just didn’t say it very eloquently. What you said was that the G5’s Dual busses aren’t a match for AMD’s chip. (A bus isn’t meant to do that which a chip does… and vice versa) What you meant to say was that The G5 along with its dual busses will be no match for the AMD chip.
First of all, you can’t make such a comparison because no such comparisons have been made yet. Most would argue that The XEON is a close match for AMD’s Opteron and yet the G5 beat it. Secondly, should either chip outpace the other it will likely be so for only a small margin… so yes… but chips will be good matches for each other.
“Do your self a favor go on line, and do some research before Posting your nonsense.”
Nothing in my post was nonsense, but I like your suggestion. perhaps you should apply it to your own statements some time.
“Apple is using PC parts that is the fact don’t believe me”
Apple is using computer parts… parts that are a part of most every computing platform. They are not specific to x86 PCs and therefore can not be declared as such. However, Apple does use several technologies developed by companies that are specific to x86… not unlike many x86 PC manufacturers are using technologies that were developed by Apple.
“HyperTrasport is made by AMD and it is in side your PC G5.”
HyperTrasport is made by AMD along with API Networks, Cisco, nVidia, PMC-Siera, Sun Microsystems, transmeta form, AS WELL AS APPLE… which, according to a HyperTrasport Consortium press release shows Apple as one of the technology’s “leaders”
“Yes, the truth Bytes Hard!
Not at all. Apple is one among a handful of 180 companies (only 7 of which are leaders) throughout the computer and communications industries have been engaged with AMD in working with the HyperTransport technology.
“WOW so difficult to admit that there are PC parts in the Mac Today”
Not difficult at all, because these technologies aren’t specific to the x86 PC.
“Realy! Read again! Steve Jobs was saying in the his presentation that the shorter piple line=faster performance.”
Steve said that a shorter pipeline leads to faster error correction because the time in which to correct those “bubbles” take less time to complete the pipeline which results in the process being executed faster.
He said that a shorter pipeline could send instructions faster. As a matter of fact, Apple said that Intel’s chips can send data through their pipeline fasters faster but because the error correction takes longer to execute, the end result was that the chips overall speed was roughly the same.
Towards the end of its lifetime, The P4 outpaced the G4 because Motorola didn’t ram up clock speeds as quickly as they had done in the past, and therefore, Intel’s chips were able to send data through their pipeline faster than the G4 even when factoring in error correction.
Mac is history… yes they are releasing there over priced g5 which some of you will buy and you try to defend your purchase by saying if you added up all the software etc but how many people actually use half of that? NOT MANY 1 might say they use it all but thats like 1 out of 10,000. Plus im sure in a year intel and amd will pass them again on speed ( i think intel already did with the 800mhz fsb chips ) and when will you see a new apple? 2 – 3 years sure they will be upgrades just to try to keep up with the intels etc. Apple will never get any market back releasing this bs, but maybe their not trying to. I think apples only chance to ever gain any ground is release the macos x for the x86 and do some kind of wine or something so companies can maybe recompile real easy for it or something! lots of people are fed up with ms and linux is great but not always the solution. I think apple has a chance there and could take some of the market but they would have to make the first release excellent. I have used a mac for about a year and never will own another one.
now lets hear the flames how you mac really wasnt that expensive when you add in all the other crap you will never use. SOME MIGHT MOST WONT!
“From the very little i have dabbled with mac i cannot say i think that they are a whole lot faster then the x86 platform.”
Actually, the G4 is not faster than the fastest x86. As a matter of fact, x86 is faster… (Although this is not the case when speaking of applications that take advantage altivec instructions inherent in the G4. The G5 is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than x86.
“The reason why i don’t switch from PC to Mac is almost purely based on price alone, i’m not much to get into this fanatical stuff… my primary interest is linux, and i cannot justify spending alot of money to buy an extra fancy computer to run linux on that’s no faster then my current PC.”
The advantage of the PC is not that it is cheaper… Rather, it allows you to buy less and therefore pay less. Apple only allows less configurability which requires you to buy more and therefore pay more. However, when both systems are compared with the same specs, the Mac will be similarly priced. Sometimes slightly more. Sometimes the same. Sometimes slightly less. and sometimes significantly less.
Jason (IP: —.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net):
I haven’t heard of PCI Express. When is it due out? Will it actually be called PCI Express? How does that compare to PCI-X?
The G5 is going to have PCI-X. If PCI-X is not PCI Express, how different are they?
——–
Great article here:
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1830
Also news:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8000
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10507
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10028
“Apple did not Developed anything for 5 years that is the fact. Fire Wire is the Only thing that was mad by Apple.”
Aside from a huge number of innovations in-which Apple made dramatic improvements on already existent technologies, Apple created FireWire from scratch and also created Rendezvous from scratch and also created Quartz Extreme from scratch.
“PPC 970 is not an Apple CO-DISIGHN, get it strait.”
Yes, The PPC970 was co-developed by Apple. Both Apple and IBM has said this. (IBM in the most recent Morld Wide Developers conference and Apple on their web page:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
“Apple has no CPU design team to the recourses to do such a thing. PPC 970 is IBM not APLLE.”
Apple does employ some CPU designers and The PPC 970 was jointly designed by IBM and Apple.
“Second, you dual Busses are no match for Opteron. Also the Dual Busses came from Dec in the EV 6, Long before Apple and was adopted by AMD.”
I understand what you’re trying to say… you just didn’t say it very eloquently. What you said was that the G5’s Dual busses aren’t a match for AMD’s chip. (A bus isn’t meant to do that which a chip does… and vice versa) What you meant to say was that The G5 along with its dual busses will be no match for the AMD chip.
First of all, you can’t make such a comparison because no such comparisons have been made yet. Most would argue that The XEON is a close match for AMD’s Opteron and yet the G5 beat it. Secondly, should either chip outpace the other it will likely be so for only a small margin… so yes… but chips will be good matches for each other.
“Do your self a favor go on line, and do some research before Posting your nonsense.”
Nothing in my post was nonsense, but I like your suggestion. perhaps you should apply it to your own statements some time.
“Apple is using PC parts that is the fact don’t believe me”
Apple is using computer parts… parts that are a part of most every computing platform. They are not specific to x86 PCs and therefore can not be declared as such. However, Apple does use several technologies developed by companies that are specific to x86… not unlike many x86 PC manufacturers are using technologies that were developed by Apple.
“HyperTrasport is made by AMD and it is in side your PC G5.”
HyperTrasport is made by AMD along with API Networks, Cisco, nVidia, PMC-Siera, Sun Microsystems, transmeta form, AS WELL AS APPLE… which, according to a HyperTrasport Consortium press release shows Apple as one of the technology’s “leaders”
“Yes, the truth Bytes Hard!
Not at all. Apple is one among a handful of 180 companies (only 7 of which are leaders) throughout the computer and communications industries have been engaged with AMD in working with the HyperTransport technology.
“WOW so difficult to admit that there are PC parts in the Mac Today”
Not difficult at all, because these technologies aren’t specific to the x86 PC.
“Realy! Read again! Steve Jobs was saying in the his presentation that the shorter piple line=faster performance.”
Steve said that a shorter pipeline leads to faster error correction because the time in which to correct those “bubbles” take less time to complete the pipeline which results in the process being executed faster.
He said that a shorter pipeline could send instructions faster. As a matter of fact, Apple said that Intel’s chips can send data through their pipeline fasters faster but because the error correction takes longer to execute, the end result was that the chips overall speed was roughly the same.
Towards the end of its lifetime, The P4 outpaced the G4 because Motorola didn’t ram up clock speeds as quickly as they had done in the past, and therefore, Intel’s chips were able to send data through their pipeline faster than the G4 even when factoring in error correction.
You are prooving my point!
Your knolege is based on Steve Jobs’s B.S.
Read My post againg.
Just read. Don’t Post APPLE.com Show me some proof that Apple did infect Develovep somthing within 5 years.
Ill post this for you agan.
PPC 970 Was made from the IBM power 4. You folowing me.
PPC 970 is IBM CPU Apple has nothing to do with it.
They did not Co-developed it.
HyperTransport Was made by AMD. Apple hase nothing to do with it.
AGP, PCI, USB, WAS made by Intel.
READ AGAIN APPLE HAS NOT DEVELOPED ANY NEW TECH FOR A LONG TIME.
Show me the proof that APPLE DID CO-disighh the CPU or
HyperTrasport.
HERE READ!
Plese no more marketing Steve Jobs B.S from apple.com
Here read again. Plese just read it.
http://www.flashua.com/maamdhyper.html
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020506S0019
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/buses/types/agp-c.html
Like I have sad to youself a vafor learn about the HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER HARDWARE before making posts.
“Apple did not Developed anything for 5 years that is the fact. Fire Wire is the Only thing that was mad by Apple.”
Aside from a huge number of innovations in-which Apple made dramatic improvements on already existent technologies, Apple created FireWire from scratch and also created Rendezvous from scratch and also created Quartz Extreme from scratch.
“PPC 970 is not an Apple CO-DISIGHN, get it strait.”
Yes, The PPC970 was co-developed by Apple. Both Apple and IBM has said this. (IBM in the most recent Morld Wide Developers conference and Apple on their web page:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
“Apple has no CPU design team to the recourses to do such a thing. PPC 970 is IBM not APLLE.”
Apple does employ some CPU designers and The PPC 970 was jointly designed by IBM and Apple.
“Second, you dual Busses are no match for Opteron. Also the Dual Busses came from Dec in the EV 6, Long before Apple and was adopted by AMD.”
I understand what you’re trying to say… you just didn’t say it very eloquently. What you said was that the G5’s Dual busses aren’t a match for AMD’s chip. (A bus isn’t meant to do that which a chip does… and vice versa) What you meant to say was that The G5 along with its dual busses will be no match for the AMD chip.
First of all, you can’t make such a comparison because no such comparisons have been made yet. Most would argue that The XEON is a close match for AMD’s Opteron and yet the G5 beat it. Secondly, should either chip outpace the other it will likely be so for only a small margin… so yes… but chips will be good matches for each other.
“Do your self a favor go on line, and do some research before Posting your nonsense.”
Nothing in my post was nonsense, but I like your suggestion. perhaps you should apply it to your own statements some time.
“Apple is using PC parts that is the fact don’t believe me”
Apple is using computer parts… parts that are a part of most every computing platform. They are not specific to x86 PCs and therefore can not be declared as such. However, Apple does use several technologies developed by companies that are specific to x86… not unlike many x86 PC manufacturers are using technologies that were developed by Apple.
“HyperTrasport is made by AMD and it is in side your PC G5.”
HyperTrasport is made by AMD along with API Networks, Cisco, nVidia, PMC-Siera, Sun Microsystems, transmeta form, AS WELL AS APPLE… which, according to a HyperTrasport Consortium press release shows Apple as one of the technology’s “leaders”
“Yes, the truth Bytes Hard!
Not at all. Apple is one among a handful of 180 companies (only 7 of which are leaders) throughout the computer and communications industries have been engaged with AMD in working with the HyperTransport technology.
“WOW so difficult to admit that there are PC parts in the Mac Today”
Not difficult at all, because these technologies aren’t specific to the x86 PC.
“Realy! Read again! Steve Jobs was saying in the his presentation that the shorter piple line=faster performance.”
Steve said that a shorter pipeline leads to faster error correction because the time in which to correct those “bubbles” take less time to complete the pipeline which results in the process being executed faster.
He said that a shorter pipeline could send instructions faster. As a matter of fact, Apple said that Intel’s chips can send data through their pipeline fasters faster but because the error correction takes longer to execute, the end result was that the chips overall speed was roughly the same.
Towards the end of its lifetime, The P4 outpaced the G4 because Motorola didn’t ram up clock speeds as quickly as they had done in the past, and therefore, Intel’s chips were able to send data through their pipeline faster than the G4 even when factoring in error correction.
You are prooving my point!
Your knolege is based on Steve Jobs’s B.S.
Read My post againg.
Just read. Don’t Post APPLE.com Show me some proof that Apple did infect Develovep somthing within 5 years.
Ill post this for you agan.
PPC 970 Was made from the IBM power 4. You folowing me.
PPC 970 is IBM CPU Apple has nothing to do with it.
They did not Co-developed it.
HyperTransport Was made by AMD. Apple hase nothing to do with it.
AGP, PCI, USB, WAS made by Intel.
READ AGAIN APPLE HAS NOT DEVELOPED ANY NEW TECH FOR A LONG TIME.
Show me the proof that APPLE DID CO-disighh the CPU or
HyperTrasport.
HERE READ!
Plese no more marketing Steve Jobs B.S from apple.com
Here read again. Plese just read it.
http://www.flashua.com/maamdhyper.html
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020506S0019
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/buses/types/agp-c.html
Like I have sad to youself a vafor learn about the HISTORY OF THE COMPUTER HARDWARE before making posts.
“Mac is history…”
Not at all.
“Yes they are releasing there over priced g5”
If you think that is overpriced, you must also think that comparably equipped PCs are overpriced as they would typically cost you in excess of $1200 over that which Apple charges you.
“which some of you will buy and you try to defend your purchase by saying if you added up all the software etc”
We don’t need to defend it. The specs speak for themselves. The software which comes with the G5 accounts for only $300 of an equivalently equipped PC. There’s an additional $900 that a PC would cost you in hardware along if you were to buy a comparably equipped PC.
“but how many people actually use half of that [software]? NOT MANY”
The demographic that buys a G5 is not only likely to use that hardware, but they are likely to upgrade to the professional version of the bundled software.
“Plus im sure in a year intel and amd will pass them again on speed”
In a year, Intel and AMD might pass up the current G5, but in a years time, The G5 will have progressed significantly as well. The G5’s roadmap is incredible.
“( i think intel already did with the 800mhz fsb chips )”
Forgive me if i don’t just take your word for it.
“and when will you see a new apple? 2 – 3 years sure they will be upgrades just to try to keep up with the intels etc.”
IBM has said that the next derivative of the G5 will be 400% faster than the current G5 and will be out in less than 12 months
“Apple will never get any market back releasing this bs,”
Apple is likely to generate a large amount of market share AND user base as a result of this truth (non BS)
” I think apples only chance to ever gain any ground is release the macos x for the x86″
And that is the perspective that makes you a 10 per hr. gofer at the company you work for and Steve Jobs a very rich man and Apple a profitable company.
“and do some kind of wine or something so companies can maybe recompile real easy for it or something!”
Apple may incorporate a WINE-like product in OS X.
“lots of people are fed up with ms and linux is great but not always the solution.”
The problem is Microsoft’s illegal control over PC OEMs and requiring that they not bundle any other OS with their hardware lest they loose their license to sell Windows. Everyone knows that OS pre-loads are the way to sell OSes… and not boxed copies.
Sorry my English is bad as it is not my language.
Not at all.
“Yes they are releasing there over priced g5”
If you think that is overpriced, you must also think that comparably equipped PCs are overpriced as they would typically cost you in excess of $1200 over that which Apple charges you.
“which some of you will buy and you try to defend your purchase by saying if you added up all the software etc”
We don’t need to defend it. The specs speak for themselves. The software which comes with the G5 accounts for only $300 of an equivalently equipped PC. There’s an additional $900 that a PC would cost you in hardware along if you were to buy a comparably equipped PC.
“but how many people actually use half of that [software]? NOT MANY”
The demographic that buys a G5 is not only likely to use that hardware, but they are likely to upgrade to the professional version of the bundled software.
“Plus im sure in a year intel and amd will pass them again on speed”
In a year, Intel and AMD might pass up the current G5, but in a years time, The G5 will have progressed significantly as well. The G5’s roadmap is incredible.
“( i think intel already did with the 800mhz fsb chips )”
Forgive me if i don’t just take your word for it.
“and when will you see a new apple? 2 – 3 years sure they will be upgrades just to try to keep up with the intels etc.”
IBM has said that the next derivative of the G5 will be 400% faster than the current G5 and will be out in less than 12 months
“Apple will never get any market back releasing this bs,”
Apple is likely to generate a large amount of market share AND user base as a result of this truth (non BS)
” I think apples only chance to ever gain any ground is release the macos x for the x86″
And that is the perspective that makes you a 10 per hr. gofer at the company you work for and Steve Jobs a very rich man and Apple a profitable company.
“and do some kind of wine or something so companies can maybe recompile real easy for it or something!”
Apple may incorporate a WINE-like product in OS X.
“lots of people are fed up with ms and linux is great but not always the solution.”
The problem is Microsoft’s illegal control over PC OEMs and requiring that they not bundle any other OS with their hardware lest they loose their license to sell Windows. Everyone knows that OS pre-loads are the way to sell OSes… and not boxed copies.
You are so foul of shit.
Apple already is loosig on thamarket.
READ AGAIN.
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
AMD is already beating G5 Wake up man!
“You are prooving my point! Your knolege is based on Steve Jobs’s B.S. “
Nothing Job’s comment was BS and my point is valid outside the comments made by Apple
“Read My post againg.
Just read. Don’t Post APPLE.com Show me some proof that Apple did infect Develovep somthing within 5 years.”
Ummm… I’ve already done that. Several times. you obviously aren’t reading correctly
“PPC 970 Was made from the IBM power 4. You folowing me.
PPC 970 is IBM CPU Apple has nothing to do with it.
They did not Co-developed it.”
The 970 is not the Power4. The changes that were made were co-developed by IBM and Apple. BOTH companies have said as much.
“HyperTransport Was made by AMD. Apple hase nothing to do with it.”
Read this: http://www.hypertransport.org/pr_072401.htm
HyperTrasport is made by AMD along with API Networks, Cisco, nVidia, PMC-Siera, Sun Microsystems, transmeta form, AS WELL AS APPLE… which, according to a HyperTrasport Consortium press release shows Apple as one of the technology’s “leaders”
Apple is one among a handful of 180 companies (only 7 of which are leaders) throughout the computer and communications industries have been engaged with AMD in working with the HyperTransport technology.
“AGP, PCI, USB, WAS made by Intel.
READ AGAIN APPLE HAS NOT DEVELOPED ANY NEW TECH FOR A LONG TIME.”
All these technologies are general PC technologies. They are not specific to any one platform… hence the reason why Apple is using them. This is not unlike the PC industry using several Apple innovations that were developed within the past 5 years such as FireWire and Rendezvous
“Show me the proof that APPLE DID CO-disighh the CPU or HyperTrasport.”
Hypertransport: http://www.hypertransport.org/pr_072401.htm
G5: See WWDC Video when IBM rep comes up: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/
G5: See this page: http://www.apple.com/powermac/
One more Time.
APPLE IS USING PC PARTS.
APPLE IS NOT FASTER THEN PC.
APPLE DID NOT DEVELOPED ANYTHING FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS.
APPLE IS PC.
SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT APPLE IS FASTER. I dont’ read Steaves B.S apple.com WRONG.
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
Apple will never be as fast or as Good then PC.
READ READ READ.
AGP technology was introduced to the market in the third quarter of 1997. The first support for this technology was from Intel’s 440LX Pentium II chipset developed by Intel.
USB technology was unveiled by Intel in 1995.
Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) bus was developed by Intel and introduced in 1993.
PCI-X technology was developed jointly by IBM, HP, and Compaq. HyperTransport Technology was invented at AMD.
Point to Point FSB BUS was released with AMD760MP chipset in 2001. Originale came from DEC EV6.
Name one thing in G5 that is truly revolutionary. What makes Apple G5 the “New Invention”? There is absolutely nothing in G5 box that was developed by Apple.
Apple is dead. PC’s are taking over the world. Face the facts. Apple is no more
Apple=PC.
“You are so foul of shit.”
Take a look in the mirror when you make that statement.
“Apple already is loosig on thamarket.”
last quarter, Apple gained significant market share in every market they compete within except for desktop computers. However, because the G5 was not available and because the G4 was not up to par, consumers didn’t buy them and so Apple’s most significant market generator caused the company’s OVERALL market to slide.
Remember, market share is a gauge of a company’s sales in relation to how they perform in any given quarter (3 month period). it IS NOT a guage for overall userbase.
If Apple maintains the same stellar sales in every quarter like they did the last, and if because the G5 is now released thereby picking up lost sales for the desktop computer, Apple’s market share will take a DRAMATIC rise next quarter.
Again, remember, market share is a gauge of a company’s sales in relation to how they perform in any given quarter (3 month period). it IS NOT a guage for overall userbase.
The problem is Microsoft’s illegal control over PC OEMs and requiring that they not bundle any other OS with their hardware lest they loose their license to sell Windows. Everyone knows that OS pre-loads are the way to sell OSes… and not boxed copies.
MS dosen’t do that anymore. They can’t.
Dell sells server systems with Linux or Windows right now. Dell will even sell you a system with no OS at all.
That kinda blows your theory out of the water.
“AMD is already beating G5 Wake up man!”
No its not. The G5 isn’t even out!
[shakes head]
Show me other websides that proof that Apple in fact developed somthing. apple.com is not a proof it is marketing B.S Just like ATI.com, Nvida.com, Intel.com.
Amd.com
SHow me the Real performaces test from some other web. Also show me where the Apple Co-disghn Anything
in G5
What proof do you have other then apple.com to back up your stamments?
I can copy paste all day long to you from other sorses that you are wrong.
Lets go again.
AGP, PCI, USB =INTEL.
PPC970 originated from Power 4 (asoming you know what that means)IBM not APPLE not Co-Apple not Apple.com.
Show me the proof that shows that apple is the Fastest on the market.
Alos PPC 970 was made as low cost server/warkstation cpu
Again From IBM, By IBM, Apple and Big Blue ton’ mix.
“One more Time.
APPLE IS USING PC PARTS.”
Apple is using computer parts that are also used by PCs.
PCs are also using computer parts made by Apple.
“APPLE IS NOT FASTER THEN PC.”
Every test made thus far has shown that the G5 is faster than any desktop PC.
“APPLE DID NOT DEVELOPED ANYTHING FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS.”</i.
Apple developed several technologies within the past 5 years.
[i]”APPLE IS PC.”
Apple is a company. Apple creates a personal computer called that Mac. A Mac uses computer parts that are often used in a PC and many that aren’t.
“SHOW ME THE PROOF THAT APPLE IS FASTER. I dont’ read Steaves B.S apple.com WRONG.”
http://a1472.g.akamai.net/7/1472/51/a67986e6dfb80d/www.apple.com/po…
“Apple will never be as fast or as Good then PC.”
Apple is not only as fast, but is faster than a PC, and in many respects is better than a PC.
“Name one thing in G5 that is truly revolutionary.”
OS X.
Now you name one thing in a PC that is truly revolutionary on a PC.
“What makes Apple G5 the “New Invention”? There is absolutely nothing in G5 box that was developed by Apple.”
There are many things in the G5 that was developed or co-developed by Apple.
“Apple is dead.”
Apple is very much alive.
“PC’s are taking over the world.”
And yet Apple will always offer a better product and have life-enough to keep them a healthy profitable company (unlike most PC manufacturers right now)
“Face the facts. Apple is no more”
Face the facts. Apple is alive and well.
“Apple=PC.
Apple=Mac
I told you I’m not intereste in apple.com I do not read
Steve Job’s BS.
Show me the proof. Proove me wrnog!
apple.com is not proof. It is marketing nothing more.
>>>“The problem is Microsoft’s illegal control over PC OEMs and requiring that they not bundle any other OS with their hardware lest they loose their license to sell Windows. Everyone knows that OS pre-loads are the way to sell OSes… and not boxed copies.”<<<
“MS dosen’t do that anymore. They can’t.”
You’re right… Microsoft can’t do it any more, but they have been with several PC OEMs. Don’t kidd yourself, the settlement has not even a slap on the wrist, nor has it caused the company to circumvent their illegal anticompetitive behavior
“Dell sells server systems with Linux or Windows right now. Dell will even sell you a system with no OS at all.”
Yes, and you still pay the “Microsoft tax” with each Dell sold.
“Show me other websides that proof that Apple in fact developed somthing. apple.com is not a proof it is marketing B.S Just like ATI.com, Nvida.com, Intel.com.
Amd.com”
If Apple creates something, and says so, what more could you possibly want. The job is on your shoulders to disprove that Apple created such technologies as FireWire, Rendezvous and Quartz Extreme.
I don;t care if you don’t believe me (or Apple for that matter), I just wish you would stop spreading FUD.
“SHow me the Real performaces test from some other web.”
http://a1472.g.akamai.net/7/1472/51/a67986e6dfb80d/www.apple.com/po…
Also show me where the Apple Co-disghn Anything in G5
Hypertransport: http://www.hypertransport.org/pr_072401.htm
G5: See WWDC Video when IBM rep comes up: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/
G5: See this page: http://www.apple.com/powermac/
“I can copy paste all day long to you from other sorses that you are wrong.”
All those posts are incorrect.
“AGP, PCI, USB =INTEL.”
These are Computer technologies that are used by several computer companies. They are not specific to the PC. Not unlike several technologies used within Apple systems are used within PCs.
“PPC970 originated from Power 4 (asoming you know what that means)IBM not APPLE not Co-Apple not Apple.com.”
Yes, the PPC970 originated from the Power4. The 970 is a derivative of the Power 4.
Both Apple and IBM worked on those derivatives:
G5: See WWDC Video when IBM rep comes up: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/
G5: See this page: http://www.apple.com/powermac/
“Show me the proof that shows that apple is the Fastest on the market.”
Apple never said that they had the fastest computer on the market. However, they did say that their G5 is faster in nearly every bechmark and real world test when compared to the Pentium 4 and XEON. This was backed by an independant research study and several spec benchmarks and real world tests:
http://a1472.g.akamai.net/7/1472/51/a67986e6dfb80d/www.apple.com/po…
“Alos PPC 970 was made as low cost server/warkstation cpu
Again From IBM, By IBM, Apple and Big Blue ton’ mix.”
The 970 was made as a low-cost DESKTOP, server and workstation CPU and was developed by IBM and Apple:
See WWDC Video when IBM rep comes up: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/
See this page: http://www.apple.com/powermac/
well i finally understood Nail’s comments after reading them a few times. first, and right off, what country are u from if English isn’t your first language? no offense, i was just wondering..(maybe it’s iraq or something and you’ve been told that anything the “enemy” says is BS!
anyways, u wanted sources outside apple. here’s one
http://www.xvsxp.com <– all about OS X vs XP
http://www.cpuscorecard.com/bench_g.htm <– benchmarks
now SHUT THE FUCK UP about your queer subjectivist remarks. your entire attitude seems to be “what i think is right, everything else is BS”
get a life, and some brain cells, because your writings here sure point otherwise.
APPLE DID NOT DEVELOP ANYTHING FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS.”</i.
Apple developed several technologies within the past 5 years.
Like what? What Apple did infect Invent? What?
What exactly did they INVENT? Yes I know FIRE Wire
Show me the True APPLE Architecture that came from APPLE
BY APPLE.
Now you name one thing in a PC that is truly revolutionary on a PC.
Everything that you Apple have stolen from PC side.
What makes Apple G5 the “New Invention”? There is absolutely nothing in G5 box that was developed by Apple.”
There are many things in the G5 that was developed or co-developed by Apple.
Like What?
You keep saying that,but you have no proof to back up your
Statement. What many things would that be?
“Name one thing in G5 that is truly revolutionary.”
OS X.
Wrong! OS X is baced on UNIX. NOT FROM APPLE.
Again BASED ON SOME ONE ELSES IDIA.
What Apple did infect Invent?
You keep pointing to apple.com, why because you have no other way of proving me wrong.
“Face the facts. Apple is no more”
Face the facts. Apple is alive and well.
Well maybe you should check the market report first.
Apple is loosing Ground.
Apple is only 1.9% of the total computer Market.
That doesn’t sound too good for a “Computer Leader”
“APPLE IS PC.”
Apple is a company. Apple creates a personal computer called that Mac. A Mac uses computer parts that are often used in a PC and many that aren’t.
And many that Isn’t.
Such as name one thing that Apple has invented in G5 PC.
Like what?
PPC 970 is IBM
AGP IS INTEL
HyperTransport is AMD
PCI is Intel
USB is INTEL.
What are they using that is not PC?
What. Oh wait appl.com Sorry I forgotten about that.
As you can see you have no prove at all too back up you statement.
All you can do is to say APPLE CO-made this and that.
Good go ahead and buy your G5 After ALL you Are Buying PC.
It is pointless for me to argue with some one like you who has a very narrow mined.
Say what ever you want to say.
You have no prove all you do is comedic your own statements.
now SHUT THE FUCK UP about your queer subjectivist remarks. your entire attitude seems to be “what i think is right, everything else is BS”
The same can be sad about you Asshole.
get a life, and some brain cells, because your writings here sure point otherwise.
I was thingking the same thing about you.
Your anger is the idecation of frastration.
You can’t proove me Wrong all you can do is BITCH Like a some cheep HORE.
NAIL YOU ARE FUCKIN RETARDED
READ THE FUCKING POSTS
IVE POSTED FUCKING LINKS OUTSIDE APPLE
YOURE TOO FUCKIN RETARDED TO READ THEM BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW ANY ENGLISH
I COULD GO ON ABOUT WHAT APPLE DID INVENT, BUT YOU WOULDNT READ IT ANYWAY
NOW STFU AND GO HUMP A CAMEL YA FUCKIN SUBJECTIVIST MORONIC INVERTEBRAE!
You can’t proove me Wrong all you can do is BITCH Like a some cheep HORE
What proove! Your forgoten to proove me wrong Bitch.
APPLE IS PC HAAAAA END OF LINE APPLE HAS NOTHING TO OFER TO THE APPLE PEOPLE EXAPT INTEL,IBM,AMD TECH.
NOW STFU AND GO HUMP A CAMEL YA FUCKIN SUBJECTIVIST MORONIC INVERTEBRAE!
PLeas do that and KISS YOUR STEVE JOBS IN HTE ASS FOR PROVIDING YOU WITH THE PC PARTS!
HAVE A NICE DAY ASSHOLE!
HAAAA
STUPID FUCK!
Stupid American SHIT HEAD!I’m not from Iraq you fuck!
I’m From Erope.
“What Apple did infect Invent? Yes I know FIRE Wire
Show me the True APPLE Architecture that came from APPLE
BY APPLE.
I’ve showed you several different technologies several times… all of which were totally-Apple created. the more and more you comment, the more I’m lead to believe that you’re trying to bait me into saying something which you have a prepared statement for.
>>>“Now you name one thing in a PC that is truly revolutionary on a PC.”
“[/i]Everything that you Apple have stolen from PC side.”[/i]
Not true at all. (I noticed you didn’t answer my question.
>>>“Name one thing in G5 that is truly revolutionary.”<<<
>>OS X.<<
“[i]”Wrong! OS X is baced on UNIX. NOT FROM APPLE.”
OS X is more than the core foundation of the OS. Perhaps i should have been more specific by saying that Apple created the majority of the OS except for lower-level technologies such as the kernel and several open source technologies that Apple includes. Your statement implies that Apple invented none of OS X. That is absolutely false.
“Apple is loosing Ground.”
Apple is only 1.9% of the total computer Market.”
That percent is incorrect. Apple’s percent of the market is roughly 3% right now.
As far as loosing ground, last quarter, Apple gained significant market share in every market they compete within except for desktop computers. However, because the G5 was not available and because the G4 was not up to par, consumers didn’t buy them and so Apple’s most significant market generator caused the company’s OVERALL market to slide.
Remember, market share is a gauge of a company’s sales in relation to how they perform in any given quarter (3 month period). it IS NOT a guage for overall userbase.
If Apple maintains the same stellar sales in every quarter like they did the last, and if because the G5 is now released thereby picking up lost sales for the desktop computer, Apple’s market share will take a DRAMATIC rise next quarter.
Again, remember, market share is a gauge of a company’s sales in relation to how they perform in any given quarter (3 month period). it IS NOT a guage for overall userbase.
“That doesn’t sound too good for a “Computer Leader””
After I corrected your misleading statement it does.
“Apple uses technologies that weren’t made by them.]
Such as name one thing that Apple has invented in G5 PC.”
Apple co-developed the G5. I’ve already proven this.
“PPC 970 is IBM”
Co-developed by Apple.
“AGP IS INTEL”
A computer technology… not a PC technology
“HyperTransport is AMD”
Co-developed by Apple and is A computer technology… not a PC technology
“PCI is Intel”
A computer technology… not a PC technology
“USB is INTEL.
A computer technology… not a PC technology
“What are they using that is not PC?”
Nearly everything is a computer technology… not a PC (or x86) technology. All that which is not, was either developed solely for Apple, is co-developed by Apple, or Apple created it themselves.
“Good go ahead and buy your G5 After ALL you Are Buying PC.”
I am buying a Mac
“It is pointless for me to argue with some one like you who has a very narrow mined.”
Look in the mirror when you make that statement
“Say what ever you want to say.”
I can, will, and do.
“You have no prove all you do is comedic your own statements.”
I’ve given you proof. you refuse to listen
Erope? NEVER HEARD OF EROPE?! IS THAT SWAHILI FOR GAYLAND?
AND WHO SAID IM A YANK?!
HAH UR THE SHIT HEAD, AND STOP TAKING MY REMARKS, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE UR FUCKIN OWN ONES…
“The same can be sad about you Asshole.
get a life, and some brain cells, because your writings here sure point otherwise.”
Nope. its just you.
“Your anger is the idecation of frastration.”
No, your trollings make his anger justified.
“You can’t proove me Wrong all you can do is BITCH Like a some cheep HORE.”
You have been proven wrong several times, and the whoreish bitching has been coming from you
ITS “WHORE” ya DUMBASS
and now he’s copy/pasting comments, because he can’t speak decent english…and it’s still wrong
last Nail’s post grade: D-
“You can’t proove me Wrong all you can do is BITCH Like a some cheep HORE
What proove! Your forgoten to proove me wrong Bitch.
APPLE IS PC HAAAAA END OF LINE APPLE HAS NOTHING TO OFER TO THE APPLE PEOPLE EXAPT INTEL,IBM,AMD TECH.
NOW STFU AND GO HUMP A CAMEL YA FUCKIN SUBJECTIVIST MORONIC INVERTEBRAE!
PLeas do that and KISS YOUR STEVE JOBS IN HTE ASS FOR PROVIDING YOU WITH THE PC PARTS!
HAVE A NICE DAY ASSHOLE!
HAAAA
STUPID FUCK!”
If there was any doubt before… this statement by itself is proof that this individual is a flame starting troll and should be banned from the internet.
u said that already come up with something new beyotch
–Nail’s Misspelled Words Count–
“cheep” (cheap)
“hore” (whore)
“proove” (proof, noun form)
“your” (should be “you’ve)
APPLE IS PC HAAAAA END OF LINE APPLE HAS NOTHING TO OFER TO THE APPLE PEOPLE EXAPT INTEL,IBM,AMD TECH.
(should be halfway competant words, constructed in a grammatical manner. that is just hopeless it seems)
“hte” (the)
“troll” (15th century degrading term, is this guy that old?)
who’s the dumbass?
eheheh
i agree with baz888 he knows all!!!!
and windows suxs ass
osx is god!!!!
hey nail u still there man?
maybe his Winblows crashed on him and his motherboard fried, but hey PCs still rock right?
I’m not from Afghanistan FOOL!
And what deference it would make where I’m from.
.
If there was any doubt before… this statement by itself is proof that this individual is a flame starting troll and should be banned from the internet.
No shit! You are corect you shoud be band from the Internet.
Can’t prove me wrong BITCH!
APPLE=PC.
NO APPE PARTS IN YOUR IBM COMATIBLE APPLE.
HHAA
“The same can be sad about you Asshole.
get a life, and some brain cells, because your writings here sure point otherwise.”
Nope. its just you.
“Your anger is the idecation of frastration.”
No, your trollings make his anger justified.
“You can’t proove me Wrong all you can do is BITCH Like a some cheep HORE.”
You have been proven wrong several times, and the whoreish bitching has been coming from you
OK
NAME ONE THING THAT WAS INVENTED BY APPLE’S G5 ARHITECTURE.
NAME ON THING THAT WAS INVENTED BY APPLE IN G5?
WHAT APPLE HAS INVENTED WITH IN 5 YEARS?
WHAT APPLE MAKES TODAY THAT IS TRULLY FROM APPLE?
NAME ONE THING THAT DELL INVENTED IN IT’s COMPUTERS! HAH!
Also, Apple invented FIREWIRE! HAH! OWNED!
i’ll fix your latest spelling later on, im gonna eat dinner now
nail your sad
u have to resort to cursing and swearing to vent your anger!!! that is sad man!!
Just so you know My PC has been Rendering Animation for the last 2 WEEKS strait. and my system is very Sable.
However:YOU MACINTRASH IS SIMPLY CAN”T HADNLE LIGHTWAVE AS WELL AS MY PC DOUES.
“NAME ON THING THAT WAS INVENTED BY APPLE IN G5?”
Firewire.
“WHAT APPLE HAS INVENTED WITH IN 5 YEARS?”
Firewire, Quartz Extreme, Rendezvous are just a few.
“Just so you know My PC has been Rendering Animation for the last 2 WEEKS strait. and my system is very Sable.”
My Mac can render animation for 2 weeks strait and be very Sable as well.
“However:YOU MACINTRASH IS SIMPLY CAN”T HADNLE LIGHTWAVE AS WELL AS MY PC DOUES.”
I prefer Maya
Ohhh… almost forgot to add “Exposé” to the list of Apple specific technologies that i was ratteling off the top of my head when I mentioned Firewire, Quartz Extreme and Rendezvous.
nail your sad
On the contrary, I’m very happy right now.
My Animation is completed and I’m working on the post production right now.
My Workstations REDERING FAR FASTER THEN YOU MACINTRASH.
And since you are so smart I guess you know what Sub-d surface means or how to use it. Ever Used Any 3d Packages before?
Ever used Maya or LightWave before?
u have to resort to cursing and swearing to vent your anger!!! that is sad man!!
You are the one who started to Swear and making the Racial remarks first.
Or you head is so doped Right now that you can’t even remember. You are the one who started to swear first not me. Is you G slow so really that Unstable, Causing you too lose track of you own statements.
My swearing was a direct response to you STUPIDITY.
READ YOUR POST FIRST JACKLE. YOU know You SHOULD STOP SMOKING POD IT IS NOT GOOD FOR YOUR BRAIN (if you have any)
Name ONE THING THAT WAS INVENTED BY APPLE IN G5
Fire Wire! WOW ONE THING AMAZING. I guess that would qualify APPLE AS “THE REAL INTETORS”.
BUY for now!
lol* “However, nowhere in the x86 pc industry will you find a 1 Ghz fsb”
EXACTLY — nowhere in the *entire* industry, since there are no G5s to be bought anywhere. On the other hand, there is Abit with FSB 1200 MHz Rambus boards
This has already been gone over several times. You aren’t contributing anything new.
Further, oh wow…you are talking about the G5 not being available but 800 Mhz bussed P4s are now. Who gives a crap?! The G5 is hitting shelves in a couple weeks anyhow.
Put the crack-pipe down, will ya..? firstly, you ppl defend this “bench mark” notwithstanding the hilarious gap FSB-wise between the tested 800 Mhz P4 and the 100 of the Mac.
WTF! How infantile can you be? Insulting someone like that really helps your cause.
Thank you! My sentiment exactly.
I don’t understand why a holy war has to break out everytime and name calling must start.
They are computers. Why do people have to start insulting and acting barbaric over a thing like computers?
Shit…if people want to do that…why not select something else to get pissed about…something more important…like ketchup.
Why the hell is it that I can’t go to a fast food joint and get a damned burger without ketchup? It seems like the people behind the counter go into shock if I say “no ketchup.” I just hate the stuff. Oh then there is the spelling…ketchup vs. catsup.
Fuck…they are computers. Stop with the lame, hostile attitudes. Try acting like adults.
I have been using PCs since the 8086, and have never owned a Mac, i also am a linux user so what i say is only an opinion. From the very little i have dabbled with mac i cannot say i think that they are a whole lot faster then the x86 platform. But then again i haven’t had the opportunity to try out a new, state of the art Mac… The reason why i don’t switch from PC to Mac is almost purely based on price alone, i’m not much to get into this fanatical stuff… my primary interest is linux, and i cannot justify spending alot of money to buy an extra fancy computer to run linux on that’s no faster then my current PC. I am interested in this new ppc970 from ibm, i hope that ibm comes out with an inexpensive workstation with this processor in it, if they do i’ll be in line to get it.
Just my two cents
Thank you for being a reasonable PC user. Its nice to see someone from the Linux side coming in here not trying spread FUD about Macs.
Don’t worry about the ppc970. I hear waht you are saying about the price tag…it does seem steep. But keep in mind, Apple does sell on high margins. They have been doin very heavy R&D and restructuring, advertising, etc. I would suspect that since Apple finally seems to be getting to where they want to be technology-wise (essentially recovering from the gross mismanagement of the previous CEO) I wouldn’t be surprised if the G5 price tag came down. IBM may even make their own workstation with the PPC970. Either way, you are talking about a product that hasn’t really hit the shelves and the manufacturing plant is having trouble keeping up with demand. That means the price tag will be up for a while. It will come down…along with the margins.
Please someone… Do it now!
BTW NAIL, you should buy a Mac and use Safari’s integrated spell checker. Even if english isn’t your native language it’s no excuse for the poor spelling.
No company makes an entirely original system. not one. They all use more or less the same technologies. Imagine the nightmare otherwise.
Your assertion that Macs use PC parts is as stupid as saying Windows runs Mac apps (Word, Excel, Photoshop, Pagemaker were all published on the Mac first).
BTW, USB is an inferior technology that beat out the superior Firewire for purely marketing reasons. Hell, the USB2 standard isn’t even as good as the original Firewire spec.
For the people saying Apple invented Rendevous, thats just not true.
Its just a renamed ZeroConf (zeroconf.org) that is an open standard developed for Linux.
It is currently shipping in Mandrake Linux.
And you can talk all day long about my spelling I can care less ok.
We are not discussing the PROPER GRAMER HERE. Or how to spell something properly.
What we are talking about is technology and where it came from.
What you have to realize that Apple is lying to you all. The claim that they have the best in the world, yet they have failed to admit that the Architecture is based entirely on pc.
Your assertion that Macs use PC parts is as stupid as saying Windows runs Mac apps (Word, Excel, Photoshop, Pagemaker were all published on the Mac first).
In is not assertion it is the fact. Deal with it. All components that make Apple today
Came from some one else deign and not from Apple.
You are comparing PC clones to APPLE. Since when Apple became a PC clone?
Apple people are quick to point out that FIRE WIRE in my PC was originally made
and Design by Apple. But when you are using PC architecture in the you Mac is it is totally ok
Fact is simple APPLE IS USING PC PARTS if you say no then you are simply wrong.
Ask yourself the simple Question Where the AGP came from, who came up with PCI bus
Who created USB?
“1 Ghz fsb. Apple has that. Nobody else”
Correction, Apple WILL have that. AND we’ll see how the G5 performs when it’s actually available for sale (If the benchmarks are so important to everyone).
But personally the only things that are preventing me from switching totally to Mac are the terrible quality control problems at Apple. Retailers were reporting a 60% failure rate on eMacs? Sounds like a good buy to me. For some interesting history go to http://www.netherworld.com/~mgabrys/clock/back.html
It only gets better!
What you have to realize that Apple is lying to you all
And why exactly is it your job to educate us about this?
The claim that they have the best in the world, yet they have failed to admit that the Architecture is based entirely on pc.
And yet you fail to explain why this is important.
Just because English isn’t your first language doesn’t mean you should not understand that this:
In is not assertion it is the fact. Deal with it. All components that make Apple today
Came from some one else deign and not from Apple.
…completely contradicts this:
Apple people are quick to point out that FIRE WIRE in my PC was originally made
and Design by Apple. But when you are using PC architecture in the you Mac is it is totally ok
And lastly.
Ask yourself the simple Question Where the AGP came from, who came up with PCI bus
Who created USB?
Again, tell me why I should care? Is this some kind of competition to see which company has the most patents or the most “innovation”? That’s a useless exercise.
wank wank wank wank wank
write artical about wanking
wank wank wank wank
oh and a few lies mistruths and general things only a person with an iq below 80 would believe.
I love my pc and its faster than the mac. I use more programs than any of my mac ppl.. all at once and it never crashes.. my friends osx box goes slow as a dog compared to mine. His got a 800 Mhz g4, mines a 700 Athlon, i can easily do more tracks with more effects and no droppouts than him on his mac in osx.
Oh oh its an osnews artical .. but only if its a puff piece about mac…
For gods sake stop printing this trite.. look at the user responces.. ppl wont come back to osnews if u continue to print this maninformed tripe.
Delete my mac masturbation post if u want, i think we should have a vote. Do we want articals like this in osnews.. i dont think we do.
I think osnews is about truth, not mac users masturbating lies about how their computers are faster.. and pcs crash all the time.
Who else thinks we shoudl have a vote as to if we want this crap passed of a news.
What else is Apple suppose to use the alien space technology that they have? They are saving that for G6.
It really burns you that Apple is going to be shipping G5s doesn’t it?
Come on you know it does! Its like a PC but its not! Come on you know you want one! You feel the anger! I know it! Your thoughts betray you NAIL! Let your anger flow through your veins! Then your SWITCH to the dark side will be complete…my son! MUHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
So what if Apple borrows a little here and there? You can’t blame them can you buddy? Its not like no one copied off of little ole Apple pal!
Back to the topic, the article is actually similiar to a lot of experiences I have seen with people trying out MacOSX for an extended period of time. Our HP/UX admin borrowed a Pismo G3 loaded with MacOSX for several weeks and now he wants one despite using many versions of Windows, Linux and Unix for many years.
I think that articles like this one are kind of irrelevant. But, then, when I see an article like this one I simply don’t bother to read all the posts. So I really don’t care one way or the other.
What really bothers me is when a thread on Panther or something else meaningful gets into a flame war because someone says they like Macs/PCs better for some reason and then everyone and their grandmother feels the need to “correct” them.
>>>“Name ONE THING THAT WAS INVENTED BY APPLE IN G5”<<<
“Fire Wire! WOW ONE THING AMAZING. I guess that would qualify APPLE AS “THE REAL INTETORS”.”
Firewire, Quartz Extreme, Rendezvous are just a few.
“Don’t worry about the ppc970. I hear waht you are saying about the price tag…it does seem steep.”
How is the the G5’s price tag steep when a comparable PC would cost more than $1,200 MORE!
“But keep in mind, Apple does sell on high margins.”
They sell with high margins not because they are selling high and giving less… Rather, they sell you more and there price fits accordingly. The difference to a PC is that Apple is less configurable. A PC allows you to buy less and pay less. That does not make it cheaper… just more configurable.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if the G5 price tag came down.”
I’m sure it will, but it wont be because the current price is out of proportion to the rest of the industry. Rather… its an incredible bargain.
“For the people saying Apple invented Rendevous, thats just not true.
Its just a renamed ZeroConf (zeroconf.org) that is an open standard developed for Linux.
It is currently shipping in Mandrake Linux.”
Apple DID create Rendevous and released the technology to the open source community under the name ZeroConf.
“What you have to realize that Apple is lying to you all.”
We don;t have to realize it because they are NOT lying to us.
“The claim that they have the best in the world”
They have never said that they have the best in the world.
“they have failed to admit that the Architecture is based entirely on pc.
They didn’t “fail” to say it because the Macintosh is NOT “based entirely on pc.”
“All components that make Apple today
Came from some one else deign and not from Apple.”
That doesn’t make them PC. If that’s the only leg your argument is standing on, I’m sorry to say that it just fell.
You are comparing PC clones to APPLE. Since when Apple became a PC clone?”
Apple is not a PC clone.
“Apple people are quick to point out that FIRE WIRE in my PC was originally made and Design by Apple. But when you are using PC architecture in the you Mac is it is totally ok”
There is no such thing as “PC technology” other than perhaps an x86 processor and Windows as those are the only things that are specific to the PC. Anything other than that is COMPUTER technology as it was developed for computers. Just because Apple didn’t invent something doesn’t make it a PC technology.
“Fact is simple APPLE IS USING PC PARTS if you say no then you are simply wrong.”
We are not wrong because Apple doesn’t use x86 chips nor do they run Windows. everything else is COMPUTER technology.
“Ask yourself the simple Question Where the AGP came from, who came up with PCI bus Who created USB?
Computer technology companies
” I can run lots of applications at once without the machine slowing to a crawl or throwing up the blue screen of death”
What is he talking about ? Is that guy simply cut and pasted an old article from 1995 and just changed to computer model so it fit as of today ?
Blue screen of wha ???
Lots of application that slow down to a crawl on a TWO POINT FOUR GIGAHERTZ ???
Ahh…actually this does happen. It will vary greatly on what you actually do though. I tend to run a lot of apps ata time (just come with the job) and I experience this frequently.
I have seen the same thing in a student lab.
My own machine hasn’t blue screened on me. Instead it either drops explorer and restarts it and I sometimes lose work in the process, or I get to reboot. XP is certainly better than Win95…but as with any OS, there are flaws.
I liked this article. It’s not often you get real usage opinions on Macs. This was not meant to be technical, or to show what’s faster or more stable. It simple showed that the faults of Macs don’t hurt them when doing regular tasks.
What I AM sick of is all the bullshit Linux articles. How many times do we need to read about some Linux zealot trying to convince us that Linux is ready for *insert your favorate coin phrase *.
It really doesn’t matter if rabid Linux user #4359 thinks Linux is the shnitz. What matters is what happens in the market.
Now THOSE are stupid articles.
“What I AM sick of is all the bullshit Linux articles. How many times do we need to read about some Linux zealot trying to convince us that Linux is ready for *insert your favorate coin phrase *.
It really doesn’t matter if rabid Linux user #4359 thinks Linux is the shnitz. What matters is what happens in the market.”
I can sympathize with Linux users (partially because I am one) along with using OS X…
Its important to correct misconception about our preferred platform lest the trolls manipulate the masses into thinking something thats not true about our OS which would cause it to be unjustifiably harmed.
We don’t have to realize it because they are NOT lying to us.
Sure! Steve jobs is the most honest person in the world except that he did lied about the Benchmarks and that Mac is using pc parts.
READ THIS http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
OPEN YOUR
FACE WIDE OPEN.
AGP WAS DIGHN FOR THE PENTIUM II PROSESOR. FOR PC AND THAT MAKES IT A PC PART.
PCI WAS DEVELOPED BY INTEL IN 1993 TO REPLACE THE VLB IN HIGH END 486 MACHINES. THAT MAKES IT A PC PART.
MADE BY INTEL FOR PC NOT FOR MAC.
STOP WRITING B.S. LEARN THE HISTORY OF COMPUTER HARDWARE FIRST, BEFORE posting.
“All components that make Apple today
Came from some one else deign and not from Apple.”
That doesn’t make them PC. If that’s the only leg your argument is standing on, I’m sorry to say that it just fell.
How SO! HyperTrasport is made and INVENTED BY AMD
Again PC PART for OPTERON not FOR APPLE.
PP970 IS IBM TECHMOLOGY A DERIVETEV OF THE POWER 4
AGAIN APPLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
APPLE IS USING PC PARTS END OF LINE.
APPLE DID NOT MAKE AGP, NOR THAT THEY HAVE INVENTED THE PCI BUS OK STOP POSTING B.S.
There is no such thing as “PC technology” other than perhaps an x86 processor and Windows as those are the only things that are specific to the PC. Anything other than that is COMPUTER technology as it was developed for computers. Just because Apple didn’t invent something doesn’t make it a PC technology.
AGP WAS DIGHN FOR THE PENTIUM II PROSESOR. FOR PC AND THAT MAKES IT A PC PART. I
APPLE DID NOT MAKE AGP, NOR THAT THEY HAVE INVENTED THE PCI BUS OK STOP POSTING B.S.
THERE IS NOTHING IN THE APPLE TODAY THAT CEME FROM APPL
IS THAT IBM COMPATIBLE YOU ARE USING?
//
Apple DID create Rendevous and released the technology to the open source community under the name ZeroConf.
//
Yes, they made the name “Rendevous” 😉
ZeroConf is a standard invented by the IETF (http://www.ietf.org). Rendevous is just the mac version of that standard. Its like saying that Apple invented Photoshop because there is a mac port.
Just so you know My PC has been Rendering Animation for the last 2 WEEKS strait. and my system is very Sable.
That is interesting.
I have never heard of a computer being “sable” before.
Stable, yes.
Sable, no.
Stable, yes.
Sable, no.
WE HAVE ARE ENGLISH TEACHER HERE!
THANKS FOR CORETING MY GRAMMER FORM ME.
YOU SHOULD ENTER THE SPELING CONTEST, MABY YOU WILL WIN SOMETHING.
Hey Anonymous
I want to make myself clear regarding the following posts and replies…I think I didn’t make myself as clear as I should have since I was falling asleep at the time
“Don’t worry about the ppc970. I hear waht you are saying about the price tag…it does seem steep.”
How is the the G5’s price tag steep when a comparable PC would cost more than $1,200 MORE!
“But keep in mind, Apple does sell on high margins.”
They sell with high margins not because they are selling high and giving less… Rather, they sell you more and there price fits accordingly. The difference to a PC is that Apple is less configurable. A PC allows you to buy less and pay less. That does not make it cheaper… just more configurable.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if the G5 price tag came down.”
I’m sure it will, but it wont be because the current price is out of proportion to the rest of the industry. Rather… its an incredible bargain.
Believe it or not, we are in total agreement. There is a perception that Macs are expensive. It is true that you definately get more for a Mac and your $ ultimately goes farther. Further, the price is definately a good price for what you get.
What I was trying to get at is how Apple has had a very low operational profit margin due to operating costs and R&D – they have been restructuring and researching like mad.
From what I gather from people I know that are working at Apple, the restructuring for the most part is over. Further, the R&D that they have been pushing very hard on has paid off. I don’t think they will scale significantly back on R&D if at all. They will down the road…but not yet.
Further, they have been busy with land improvements, invsetments, etc. End result, a very low operational profit margin. They are on a pile of $$$, but the % is a little low. Since restructruing and land improvements are done, and the kinks are being worked out of the fabrication lines, we can expect more G5s (and other products to roll out). Eventually Apple will be able make a drop in margins but maintain profitability…that time isn’t here though. This would result in the “Macs suck because of the price tag” nothing to complain about. Apple knows there is a perception of a high price tag. Yes we know it is an illusion…but some people are easily hypnotized.
Of course, Apple could just keep getting more and more people and say “ahh…fuck the margins…we’ll keep ’em wher they are at and dump the $$$ into R&D”.
That was what I was getting at…dropping the price to fight an illusion. As much as we understand that Macs are worth the cost…most PC-only people don’t.
All your base are belong to us.
“Steve jobs is the most honest person in the world except that he did lied about the Benchmarks and that Mac is using pc parts.”
Apple did not lie about the bechmarks. Read this article… it contradicts the claims made by the link you supplied: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/24/2154256&mode=thre…
“PCI WAS DEVELOPED BY INTEL IN 1993 TO REPLACE THE VLB IN HIGH END 486 MACHINES. THAT MAKES IT A PC PART.
MADE BY INTEL FOR PC NOT FOR MAC.
STOP WRITING B.S. LEARN THE HISTORY OF COMPUTER HARDWARE FIRST, BEFORE posting.”
All this talk of Apple being a “PC” due to the fact that they use many parts that are common in x86 systems has caused me to ask if there is innovation in the “PC architecture”
The title of Innovative technology” within a platform can be attributed when that innovation is specific to that platform, otherwise its a computer innovation because it supports additional platforms.
When considering this perspective, the only technologies that are specific to the PC are x86 processors and Windows. Anything and everything else is a technology that can (or is) part of another platform. Therefore, the only true “innovations” that can be attributed to a PC are Windows and x86 chips. Everything else is a “computer technology.
Anything other than these two things are what can otherwise be regarded as the computer component business model. The x86 PC was founded on this ideology and later, Apple’s Macintosh would later benefit from it.
However, there is a significant difference between the component business models (PCs) and the alternative…. We’ll call them finished product suppliers.
Unlike “component suppliers” that produce a single element of a greater unit, “finished product suppliers” create completely centralized solutions that allow them to integrate many features that can be specific to that platform. Two examples of finished product suppliers are Apple Computer and Sun Microsystems.
The unfortunate truth underlying the component business model is that none companies which base their business on this model cannot differentiate themselves from their competition by integrating unique features, simply because the component architecture allows each element to be copied by the competition.
Alternatively, companies that adopt the finished product supplier business model can arrange every aspect of their product including technologies that are specific to that platform and can not be copied by the competition.
It’s no wonder that the only element that does not follow these guidelines — Windows — is the one causing the marketplace so much grief. The component business model can work, but only if each of the finalized product’s elements abides by the same rules.
Since its creation, Windows has become extremely multifaceted, so IMHO, it ought to abide by the same governing strategy that is required of PC hardware component manufacturers. As a major player within the component-based computer framework, Windows ought to be distributed to consumers in a way that is similar to the Linux distribution model.
The basic elements of Windows (media player, Web browser, kernel, GUI and applications) must be delivered to the consumer as identifiably separate — but conveniently installable — components if the company is to continue playing an active role in the IBM/PC-compatible marketplace.
For the past several years, I’ve held the opinion that the component architecture on which the PC marketplace is based — and which, coincidentally, helped that market achieve great success — eventually will lead to its downfall.
We’ve seen this theory in action over the past several months as all of the major PC manufacturers struggle to make a buck. The only ones surviving are those that have cannibalized the PC marketplace by accepting margins of less than 1 percent, thus killing healthy competition.
The unfortunate truth underlying the component business model is that none of these companies can differentiate itself from the competition by integrating unique features, simply because the component architecture allows each element to be copied by the competition.
Each of these companies has access to the same features as its competitors. This, of course, means that the only differentiating factor between companies that adopt this business model is price. Because of this, each company eventually will be forced to underprice itself right out of the market.
Alternatively, a non-component-based company that integrates third-party components can reap all of the benefits of the component business model, but also can benefit from advantages associated with being a single source for total integration. As long as the company is the sole supplier of its finished product, the end result is a win-win situation for both the company and consumers.
Companies like Apple and Sun get to benefit from all the benefits that are “computer technologies” (They are not PC technologies because they are not specific to the PC) yet they also get to benefit from technologies that are specific to their platform because they can and often are exclusive to that platform.
“HyperTrasport is made and INVENTED BY AMD
Again PC PART for OPTERON not FOR APPLE.”
It is a computer component… not a PC component because the technology is not specific to the PC. Also, Apple help create hypertransport.
“PP970 IS IBM TECHMOLOGY A DERIVETEV OF THE POWER 4
AGAIN APPLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.”
Not true. Apple co developed the 970 with IBM
“APPLE IS USING PC PARTS END OF LINE.”
Not true. Apple is using computer components as well as mac components.
“APPLE DID NOT MAKE AGP, NOR THAT THEY HAVE INVENTED THE PCI BUS OK STOP POSTING B.S.”
No, they did not create those technologies and yet they are NOT “PC technologies” due to the fact that they are not specific to the PC.
“AGP WAS DIGHN FOR THE PENTIUM II PROSESOR. FOR PC AND THAT MAKES IT A PC PART.
There is no such thing as “PC technology” other than perhaps an x86 processor and Windows as those are the only things that are specific to the PC. Anything other than that is COMPUTER technology as it was developed for computers. Just because Apple didn’t invent something doesn’t make it a PC technology.
“THERE IS NOTHING IN THE APPLE TODAY THAT CEME FROM APPL”
There are plenty of technologies that came solely from Apple. We’ve already gone over this.
“IS THAT IBM COMPATIBLE YOU ARE USING?”
Actually, more so than yours… a PC is not an IBM compatible any more as IBM does not create x86 (although they will be fabbing some of AMD’s chips in the near future). If anything, the Mac is the IBM compatible and the PC is anything but that. To answer the root of your comment… The Mac is a Mac… not a PC.
“Yes, they made the name “Rendevous” ;-)”
Yes, they did that… and the underlying technology that is also known as ZeroConf.
“ZeroConf is a standard invented by the IETF ( http://www.ietf.org ). Rendevous is just the mac version of that standard.”
Apple released it to a standards body (the one you mentioned) after developing it.
So you calim Apple uses PC parts. Yes apple uses PC parts. So what? why is that a bad thing?
It is a good thing for Apple and its customers. Apple gets to spend less on developeing every damn thing for scratch. It gets AGP based grephics cards made by Nvida and ATI the leaders in the field. Also PCI based host bus adapters and other peripherals. Consumers benefit from this.
In todays day it makes no sense to develop everything in house. Intel, Nvidia and other companies do things they do very well, it just makes sense to use thier expertise and bring your product out faster.
Apple does put in it’s Intellectual Property (IP) into its products. To the enduser it makes a difference that MacOS X works seemlessy and supports many readily available third party components.
Oh and to answer your Question about my knowledge about FSB.
This link to the opteron spec should explain my point.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/305…
Look at the explaination of Memory bandwidth.
AMD themselves calim Intel uses FSB style cpu northbridge(with MC on it) whereas opteron doesn’t, it has the memorycontroller integrated into the die, so it doesn’t have the FSB like the athlon or intel based products. The memory interface on the opteron only talks DDR 200/266/333.
Sofar I havent seen a single reply to the posts with the links with articles debunking the myth that G5 is the fastest home computer. I guess the truth hurts
It is totally logical that PCs is faster(especially when you compare prices) when you think of the intense competition between AMD and Intel.
I am not a PC fanatic, I have used new and old Macs and I like them, a bit too confined for me. XP with blackbox is my current OS config. When will the Max ppl stop the total craptalk about the XP being so unstable?????? XP is rocksolid for me and all ppl that I know, PLEASE stop that BS.
“Sofar I havent seen a single reply to the posts with the links with articles debunking the myth that G5 is the fastest home computer.”
I’ve posted several links. Hers is another one:
http://a1472.g.akamai.net/7/1472/51/a67986e6dfb80d/www.apple.com/po…
“I guess the truth hurts
“
I suppose it can… especially when it comes back to bite you the way this post does to you.
“It is totally logical that PCs is faster(especially when you compare prices) when you think of the intense competition between AMD and Intel.”
Why would you think that this would cause PCs to be faster? Other chip manufacturers (such as IBM) compete for the same speed market that Intel and AMD do and are faced with the same requirements as far as price are concerned when compared with these companies.
When you consider this fact, its simply a “best man wins” type of scenareo. So far it looks like PPC is winning. (Again)
“When will the Max ppl stop the total craptalk about the XP being so unstable??????”
Maybe when the PC people stop referring to Macs as Max. (sigh)
“XP is rocksolid for me and all ppl that I know, PLEASE stop that BS.”
it is far more stable than previous versions of the OS, but in my experience it is not as stable as OS X, Linux or the BSDs
EXPLAINING THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER TO YOU MAC TROLLS IS REALY BOARING. MAC HAS FAILED AS INOVATORS. FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS APPLE WAS SLOWLY ADAPTING PC Architecture.
APPLE IS VERY INOVATIVE; NO REALY, ADOPTING PC HARDWARE TAKES SOME SERIOS INOVATIONS AND APPLE IS PRO IBM NOW.
APPLE PPC970 IS A GOOD COPADITIVE PC, BUT IT IS NOT THE FASTEST PC IN THE WORLD. http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
TO ALL ENGLISH PROFESORS HERE! THANKS FOR CORECTING MY ENGLISH FOR ME. I DID’T REALIZE THAT WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS GRAMMER AND SPELING. THANKS VERY MUCH!
GOOD JOB APPLE!!! YOU HAVE FINALLY REALISED THAT APPLE WITHOUT AMD, IBM & INTEL IS NOTHING, BUT PISS IN THE WIND.
>Just so you know the G-5 is driven by the AMD Chip set.
Just so you know AMD didn’t develop Hyper-Transport by itself, Apple and others are part of the H-T consortium. Also the PPC was developed by AIM; the A stands for Apple. Apple and Sony developed Firewire together. Maybe Nail should do some homework.
I’ve posted several links. Hers is another one:
http://a1472.g.akamai.net/7/1472/51/a67986e6dfb80d/www.apple.com/po…..
“I guess the truth hurts
”
I suppose it can… especially when it comes back to bite you the way this post does to you.
HAAA FROM APPLE HAAAAA
WHERE IS YOUR REAL PROOF. APPLE.com IS CRAP TWISTED B.S NOT PROOF.
HERE IS THE REAL PROOF JACKL.
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
WANNA SEE SOME GAMING SCORES FOR THE LATEST P4 3.2GHZ
It WILL MAKE YOU CRY.
I have posted the real test scores here
AND YOU ARE SHOWING ME THE MARKETING CRAP.
WAY TO GO.
APPLE IS LOW AS HELL.
LOOKE AT THE GAMING SCORE IT IS PATHETIC COMARE TO P4 3.2GHZ
HERE.
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/pentium4-3.2/index.x?pg=8
WOW P4 at 412FPS and YOU G-SLOW only GETS 337FPS
MAN APPLE IS REALLY HONES HERE MAN NO SHIT USING appl.com
as PROOF GET A LIVE FREAK.
>Just so you know the G-5 is driven by the AMD Chip set.
Just so you know AMD didn’t develop Hyper-Transport by itself, Apple and others are part of the H-T consortium. Also the PPC was developed by AIM; the A stands for Apple. Apple and Sony developed Firewire together. Maybe Nail should do some homework.
GOOD IDEA DO THAT. YOU SHOULD DO THE HOME WORK.
READ MY POST BEFORE PRESING THE BUTTON.
Read again!
Educate your self first.
http://www.flashua.com/maamdhyper.html
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020506S0019
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/buses/types/agp-c.html
http://support.premiopc.com/faqs/agp.htm
http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer/classes/473/notes/pci.html
http://www.macbuyersguide.com/editorials/editorial-ppc970.htm
http://jhoover.weblogdog.com/archive/1/2003-6-9
Benchmarks! READ
http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/
Read
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296
“EXPLAINING THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER TO YOU MAC TROLLS IS REALY BOARING.”
Correcting your troll comments over and over is getting really boring…. BUT I WILL KEEP DOING IT.
“MAC HAS FAILED AS INOVATORS.”
Mac is not a company. You are referring to Apple… and Apple has not failed as an innovator (nor has their macintosh failed as an innovative product). Quite the contrary… both the company and its products are very innovative.
“FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS APPLE WAS SLOWLY ADAPTING PC Architecture.”
The only architectures that are specific to the PC is Windows and x86 chips. Everything else is a “COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY”. Apple is incorporating computer technology that is not specific to the PC. (just because its not Apple-created… doesn’t make it a PC technology). Its this type of thinking that has fueled your disillusioned thinking. I already explained this to you in a big long and detailed article.
“APPLE IS VERY INOVATIVE; NO REALY”
Apple is very innovative. Name some other computer manufacturers that have as many innovations as Apple. The only that I can think of is IBM.
“ADOPTING PC HARDWARE TAKES SOME SERIOS INOVATIONS
What PC hardware innovations has Apple adapted. There are no pc hardware innovations as none of them (except for x86 and Windows) are meant to be specific for PCs. This makes them “computer technologies… or computer innovations… not PC innovations
“AND APPLE IS PRO IBM NOW.”
Considering the fact that IBM has supplied chips for Apple for approximately 10 years now… Apple and mac users have been pro IBM for quite some time. You are just now getting up to speed on this issue…
“APPLE PPC970 IS A GOOD COPADITIVE PC,
Apple G5 (utilizing the PPC970) is a good, competitive computer.
“BUT IT IS NOT THE FASTEST PC IN THE WORLD.
Nobody at Apple or IBM said that it was the fastest computer in the world.
“GOOD JOB APPLE!!! YOU HAVE FINALLY REALISED THAT APPLE WITHOUT AMD, IBM & INTEL IS NOTHING, BUT PISS IN THE WIND.”
Not true. There are several technologies that are specific to Apple that make up far FAR more than what you give them credit for. Certainly more than piss in the wind.
Its important to recognize that AMD IBM and Intel’s technologies are not specific to the PC (except for Intel and AMDs x86 chips)… everything else is computer technology…. which would make the PC industry far less than “Piss in the Wind” because the only two technologies that are specific to PCs are Windows and x86 chips.
“Apple and Sony developed Firewire together. Maybe Nail should do some homework.”
Actually, Firewire was solely created by Apple. Sony licensed the standard, re-named it then took away some of its benefits when it created iLink.
Its important to recognize that AMD IBM and Intel’s technologies are not specific to the PC (except for Intel and AMDs x86 chips)… everything else is computer technology…. which would make the PC industry far less than “Piss in the Wind” because the only two technologies that are specific to PCs are Windows and x86 chips.
You are so fucked up.
AGP WAS MADE BY INTEL FOR PII NOT FOR APPLE
ARE YOU REALY THAT FUCKED UP.
PCI IS ALSO PC TECHNOLYGY MADE BY INTEL FOR THE INTEL
APPLE JUST OPTED THAT LATER.
http://hypertransport.org/about.html
From the above website:
“The HyperTransport Technology Consortium manages and controls the HyperTransport technology specification and it promotes the business interests of consortium member companies. Consortium members include leading providers of computing, networking, communications, embedded, software and IP products and services.
Advanced Micro Devices, Alliance Semiconductors, Apple Computers, Broadcom Corporation, Cisco Systems, NVIDIA, PMC-Sierra, Sun Microsystems, and Transmeta are charter members and comprise the Executive Committee of the HyperTransport Technology Consortium.”
Here is the pcisig website and its membership roster.
http://www.pcisig.com/membership/about_us/membership_roster/
Look at Apple computers in the list of members.
“What is the PCI-SIG?
Formed in 1992, the PCI-SIG is the industry organization chartered to develop and manage the PCI standard. With over 900 members, the PCI-SIG effectively places ownership and management of the PCI specifications in the hands of the developer community. A Board of Directors comprised of nine people, each elected by the membership, leads the PCI-SIG.
”
Both these sites are more credible than any of the ones you posted. all you posted were a bunch of maazines and opinion sites. I give you the official consortium websites. READ.
Apple is very innovative. Name some other computer manufacturers that have as many innovations as Apple. The only that I can think of is IBM.
NAME WHAT APPLE HAS INVENTED
NAME IT TROLL
WHAT APPE HAS INVENTED?
THANKS TO INTEL! MAC IS USING PC PARTS.
INTEL MADE ALL THE NEW INVATIONS THAT ARE IN YOUR MAC TODAY.
NAME ONE THING THAT APPLE HAS INVENTED
I HAVE ASKD YOU THIS QUASTION AND YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN ME ANY ASWERS.
Oh look what the official source of PCI says about PCI.
pcisig.com
“What is PCI?
Peripheral component interconnect (PCI) delivers I/O functionality for computers ranging from servers to workstations, PCs, laptop PCs and mobile devices. PCI is also a standard, relying on a high-performance I/O interconnect to transfer data between a CPU and its peripherals. The PCI standard is defined for chip-level interconnects, adapter cards and device drivers. Its success as a standard is a result of its cost-effectiveness, backward compatibility, scalability and forward-thinking design.”
Does it say developed for intel by intel PCS?
AGP is a video card only slot developed by Intel. Because of today’s and upcoming 3-D games and applications, even the PCI bus isn’t enough to handle the high bandwidth required. So AGP was developed to offload the graphics I/O from the PCI bus.
The AGP slot is different from the ISA or PCI slots. AGP slots are usually brown in color; PCI slots are white, and ISA slots are black. You cannot put anything other than an AGP video card into the AGP slot.
An important point to remember is that the AGP slot was designed mainly to move large 3-D textures between the memory subsystem and the video card. Therefore, if your application is strictly 2-D, having an AGP video will not boost performance. PC Magazine ran some tests between an AGP video and a PCI version of the same card. In their Winbench graphics test (which is 2-D only), the results between the AGP and PCI video card are almost identical.
According to Intel, they will develop AGP only on Pentium II systems with the 440LX or future chipsets. Intel will not develop any Pentium class chipset with the AGP slot. Other chipset manufacturer such as VIA, SiS, etc. may come out with a Pentium class AGP chipset.
Both HyperTransport, initially developed by Advanced Micro Devices Inc., and PCI Express (formerly called 3GIO), led by Intel Corp., are seeking to reach beyond some of their legacy constructs from the PCI bus as they seek design wins in routers, switches and other communications gear.
APPLE JUST PUT THER ENAME IN THE MIX THEY DID NOT INVET HT
“HAAA FROM APPLE HAAAAA
WHERE IS YOUR REAL PROOF. APPLE.com IS CRAP TWISTED B.S NOT PROOF.”
That information came from an independent research company…. and Apple certinly isn’t “CRAP TWISTED B.S NOT PROOF”
“HERE IS THE REAL PROOF JACKL.
” rel=”nofollow”>http://spl.haxial.com/apple-powermac-G5/”
No, the “real proof” is the article that discredits those claims. Read this:
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/24/2154256&mode=thre…
“WANNA SEE SOME GAMING SCORES FOR THE LATEST P4 3.2GHZ
It WILL MAKE YOU CRY.”
Wanna see the Gaming scores for the upcoming Dual Processor 2GHz G5? it will make you AND your P4 3.2GHZ cry.
“APPLE IS LOW AS HELL.”
Not at all.
“LOOKE AT THE GAMING SCORE IT IS PATHETIC COMARE TO P4 3.2GHZ”
Im not concerned. I’m sure the G5 will compare favorably.
“You are so fucked up.”
I most certainly am not
“AGP WAS MADE BY INTEL FOR PII NOT FOR APPLE”
And yet because Apple can use AGP, it means that it is not a technology that is specific to PCs. Therefore, it is a “computer technology” not a PC technology.
Does it say developed for intel by intel PCS?
DEVELOPED BY INTEL in 1993
Can’t you read.
Just type PCI in the serch engine you will fined that INTEL
DEVELOPED IT TO REPLACE VLV IN 486
MAN YOU APPLE PEOPLE ARE SO CONFUSED WHEN IT COME TO COPUTER HARDWARE.
NOW I KNOW WHY BUY APPLE.