“If SCO has its way, the Linux community will suffer a setback, but longer term will prevail. A good way to avoid the SCO scenario is for the open source community to take more responsibility for ensuring that its code doesn’t violate established patents and copyrights. In an interview with News.com, Linux founder Linus Torvalds said it’s not the responsibility of engineers to look up patent information. He’s right, but someone other than the engineering crew supporting the open source community will need to provide some oversight. It’s part of the maturing of Linux and open source: We have our copyright and patent lawyers, they have theirs.” Read Farber’s editorial at ZDNet.
Is this the End of Free Linux?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
GO BACK TO DESIGNING GAMES YOU TROLL! OR GPL SOME GAMES FOR OUR KIDS!
The troll thinks I’m one of his own! Ah, but he doesn’t see that, unlike him, I do not make groundless allegations and provocative statements just to make people react – probably because I need some kind of attention.
Unlike trolls, I also can challenge counter-arguments with some of my own. Trolls, on the other hand, will change subjects when confronted with arguments that prove them wrong, try to attack one’s character, or – when they’re really inept trolls – try to intimidate other posters by saying that they’re 6’4″, 250 lbs.
That’s still cute, though. I will now go to sleep with the touching image of a doe-eyed troll thinking I’m one of his own…
They do not understand what it takes to make a game…
LMAO, like it’s some sort of honored profession or something. It’s a game, mostly for kids, or maybe some young adults who are immature.
Your arguments that games aren’t good candidates for open source are pathetic. THERE IS NO BETTER APPLICATION, BASED ON THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT:
– Overpriced
– Locked down from working worldwide
– Repetative titles
– Security of no concern
– Ability to save money for working families whose kids want games
Why so stingy on volunteering some of your time back to the game community. We all already have operating systems. We need some new games, and shouldn’t have to pay anymore than they’re worth (free).
(buying an engine isn’t cheap either, unless you get an old or open-source one)
See, there is opportunity for open source in gameware, you just said it yourself.
I don’t need your free game to be as good as the best proprietary one. Just like Linux isn’t anywhere as good as windows.
I just want it free. I just want to sit at home, download it without paying, and give it to others for free too.
Like I said, I don’t need the latest engine, or the most pixels. Just start donating your time to this great cause, and you might be surprised with what you are able to give us here in the game community who so desperately need some relief from those overpriced software companies.
Think how many kids you will put a smile on their face, should be all the payment you ever need back in return.
Wow, I just thought, once you start giving us our new games for free, since you GPL’d it, we should get the source code too!
So I can do all kinds of cool stuff, like make changes however I want, even not have to ever buy another version since I could just modify this one for my hearts content.
I know another guy that has worked on games before, maybe he can take your donated source code and make a new and better one for our community too.
I can’t wait for you to get started! The children will all be so happy!
While this is quite a bit off topic it is directed at Top Speed who first suggested this idea. I am thinking of introducing some new Games under a modified GPL DooM engine so that they can run on old DOS machines if that is all a user has and Linux machines running Kernel 2.0 to 2.2 in case the SCO code contamination in current kernels does exist and is enough of it to force the community to back up a kernel or two to keep their OS free. The games will be covering non computer topics that you will be familiar wuth from my previous posts and will be available for $5 to $10
dollars on a CD if you want to support them financially or free over the Internet as is typical of most “mixed economy” open source projects like Linux Distributions, The Open Watcom Compilers, WxWindows and the like. I do not mean this to be a commercial but I just want to show Top Speed that I share his concerns about expensive games. (even though I am more ticked off about the price of compilers today than games and that is why I will be using Open Watcom for this project ;-).
Top speed might also want to know about how I chose my OS-NEWS screen name. I cannot go into all the reasons without writing the whole chapter of a book here but one of the reasons is that the American Coral Snake is a member of the family-clade Elapidae as it would be called in modern evolutionary science and the ONLY member of that family-clade to be found in the America. These are the most toxic ov venomous snakes and like Mr. Top Speed I ENJOY delivering venomous bites on idiots, commies, crooks, and traitors.
like Mr. Top Speed I ENJOY delivering venomous bites on idiots, commies, crooks, and traitors..
May God Bless us both my friend. I truly enjoy your posts and the insight they bring with them. You also show yourself to be an honest straightforward man who is willing to put his money where his mouth is, something I truly respect.
Best of luck to you in your new endeavor, I honestly might contribute something to you if the project gets underway, and look forward to discussing this and other items of interest with you in the future.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/23/1058853121030.html
http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-23-Copyrights_Story01.htm…
Dont feed the trolls and they will go away.
As for all the other crap he has been saying, Linux is not going anywhere, it is not illegal to run Linux. This thing will never see the inside of a courtroom. McBride and his attorney can talk all the trash they want, but thats all it is, trash. If they could and if they were going to sue someone else the lawsuits would already be filed, they wouldnt hide a thing. Oh, and my favorite:
< I have posted at least twice as much corroboration than any linux zombie, or have you failed to notice they don’t link anything unless it’s to some open source group or weblog? >
kid, you havent pointed to nothing but editorials and commentary, Eric Raymonds document contains links to other sources besides weblogs and open source groups. Do you have solid proof that Linux does in fact incorporate UnixWare code ? If you do Im sure SCO would love to talk to you. And as a matter of fact, SCO/Caldera wasnt the entity IBM signed the contract with for Monterey, they signed the contract with old SCO, and withdrew from that obligation before the aquisition. When Caldera aquired SCO, their paths of revenue merged meaning Caldera did in fact lose no money, so their contract disputes are very weak, Im sure Boise being the lawyer he is has found a loophole, but for ever loophole Boise has found IBM has found 5 loopholes to counter his 1. SCO is hoping to do two things, from their naming, they plan to get the cash from Monterey by going to court and portraying themselves as the agrieved party, 2 they want to own some portion of Linux so bad so that they will be able to save their sinking ship they will go to any lengths. Their rising stock price doesnt show me anything because Canopy is a large group with many other companies undr its belt, see this link for a complete list:
http://www.canopy.com/
They sell and resell to each other, the correct term is called recycling, which yes, I know we have no proof as of yet. We will have to wait for their next SEC filing, which should be interesting. I will not pay a dime for Linux nor will my company until and only until SCO wins in a court of law or what my people tell me when they go to Lindon, which we have selected 2 people to sign the NDA and go to Lindon to see the infringing code, we have sent the NDA’s back and are awaiting the appointments, and no I will not be one of viewers, thank god, because i will ask questions SCO will be unable to answer and they probably dont want to answer. But Top Speed and these other Windows zealots better be careful, because they will have to eat alot of crow.
top speed
What you say makes me think you are a moron. Please try to disprove this assertion of mine.
Are we now seeing an unholy alliance by Windows and BSD trolls?
They have allways been coming from the same troll lair.
>> They have allways been coming from the same troll lair.
hah hah hah amen to that!
There’s something I’ve been wondering about the whole SCO-thing.
I’m not wondering if IBM has put in the code – or if they could, as there are many indications to too. All this is a case between IBM and SCO (and the courts, obviously).
I’m thinking more on SCO’s latest stunt about selling UnixWare licenses to Linux end users.
Now, I’m Norwegian. Here SCO would not be able to charge end users for an error done by a company. I mean, as long as IBM has put the darn thing in there, then IBM should pay the cost too, right?
The end users has not done a single thing wrong, and they had no reason to think anything was amiss. Isn’t it like that in any country?
No matter what IBM has done, it’s still nothing that should worry the end users.
Quite personally I think the whole thing is bogus.
SCO won’t prove anything. As soon as they to, Linux developers will rewrite the code, and SCO will no longer have any claim.
So my advice to anyone that get offered a UnixWare license to run Linux:
Wait until the SCO-claim has gone through the corts. Before that, they can’t possibly have any claim to the end users.
And, when they do prove it, wait two days, update your kernel (that has been rfewritten during the last couple of days) and keep working happily – SCO or anyone else do not have any claim anymore.
When that is said, I can’t see that they have anyway – part from maybe to IBM, but that should wory only IBM.
I used to believe what the Linux advocates on this thread belived too regarding the notion that SCO was engaged in a
“pump ‘n’ dump” extortion effort, Until I studied my Bilderburg Alliance attendance list for their meeting of 1999 again. All to the bigwigs of One World computer corperate/government world wide re centralization were there. These included Scott McNeally and Larry Ellison, the advocates of the “Network Computing” and “Network PC” re centralization schemes. Also there was that year’s and EVERY year’s winner of the Armond Hammer Commie “Capitalist” Award Bill Gates of Microsoft and I have no doubt whatsover that the plans that became .NET and Palladium emerged from this traitor meeting. However the most interesting computer attendee was one Lewis V. Gerstner, THE CEO OF IBM AT THE TIME OF THE BEGINNING OF THE ALLEGED TRANSFER OF SCO UNIX WARE CODE TO LINUX!!! I belive therefore that this meeting also included a plot to kill Linux as the only thing standing between the traitors and their One World computer re centralization scheme that was designed to put computing power back in the hands of Big Government and Multinational Corperations and allow us only the Internet use of rental software using “dumb terminals” by average joes.
Sorry Kernel team but I think you got stung by this plot through IBM’s so called “support” and may have to go back a kernel or two and start from scratch if you want to keep your OS free. Next time maybe you will listen to Top Speed and a certain “conspiracy nut” represented by a black, yellow and red venomous snake ;-).
top speed says:
Like I already told Steel (ANOTHER game programmer on OSNEWS touting free software, except for his), why is there Madden 1999, Madden 2000, Madden 2001, Madden 2002, etc etc etc. Then I have the problem of having a PSX, a PS2, a dreamcast and nintendo, (no xbox here, you trolls) plus I can’t run any games from overseas on here either.
All I need is the new freaking rosters, but I have to pay $50 dollars for every freaking year for a whole new game?
later on top speed says:
It’s a game, mostly for kids, or maybe some young adults who are immature.
My question is, which one is top speed????
Next time maybe you will listen to Top Speed and a certain “conspiracy nut” represented by a black, yellow and red venomous snake ;-).
Right… And why should I believe to people spewing hot air and pulling arguments from their asses?
Everybody seems to claim that they know the truth. The problem is that no one knows it right now except SCO.
A little Song Parody from the public domain
Sung to the tune of Ta ra ra boom de ay, chorus only.
For you, Wrarat.
It’s moderation time,
It’s moderation time,
It’s moderation time,
IT’S MODERATION TIME.
I came to this site from slash filth spacifically to AVOID this childish foul language and porn. Don’t blame Top Speed or I because you get stung in some Commie/Fascist/Owl-Devil Worshipper plot your Leftist College proffesors refuse to teach you about.
Microsoft.
I have no doubt that they are probably secretly financially funding SCO so that they can go head-to-head with IBM in court.
Microsoft considers this a win-win situation for them, and they’ll pass money under the table to SCO to keep this in the courts for years, if necessary.
Don’t forget that SCO participated in unitedlinux:
http://www.unitedlinux.com
Dear me, dear me, dear me! You never cease to amaze me, top speed – or should it be “motor mouth”?
Games are a leisure activity; you’ve just slandered the entire Free/Open Source Software community with your infantile abuse of Linux, Linus Torvalds, etc, claiming our method of software development amounts to communist dictatorship and theft of “Intellectual Property”, though precise you have not been …
And now you want us to write games for you, free of charge!
Of course, those games will inevitably be communist and amount to theft of Intellectual Property, but the fact you have in effect declared
float main(int x)
{
for(float x=0; x<100; x++)
}
seems to hardly trouble you.
Why?
Such intellectual rigor! Or should it be, rigor mortis? You’ve reached rock bottom, now you’ve just started digging.
Are we now seeing an unholy alliance by Windows and BSD trolls?
They have allways been coming from the same troll lair.
Geee, I guess that why I run a successful company which is currently expanding and you unemployed =).
Hey, I understand you and most of the youth Linux society. You don’t understand how life works until you get your first job…. That’s why Linux crowd can never be more than like 2-3% of all users, since when people start working, they have to worry about being efficient and lower TCO.
I guess the lair probably the university aye!
“Since probably quite a lot of people here make their living on writing code one way or the other I find it pretty odd not more support has been given to SCO.
How many can it be? 95% of all software developers develop proprietary software code when they get money for it.
But who would wanna develop proprietary code now that people can steal it, GPL it and then you loose your investment.”
Some people hav already replied to Xbe post. But most seem to have missed the glaring error in it which shows Xbe knows nothing about the software industry. It is not true 95% of software developers write prorietary code. The vast majority of professional programmers write bespoke code for use by their employers/clients.
Only a small minority of programmers write proprietary shrinkwrap applications. This minority is also as much threatened by MS expanding in to their speciality software areas as by competition from GPL’ed FOSS.
(buying an engine isn’t cheap either, unless you get an old or open-source one)
See, there is opportunity for open source in gameware, you just said it yourself
Except engines represent only, what 25% of a game’s cost? Maybe 40%, in the case of a cutting-edge, engine-heavy game such as Doom 3?
I’m not even going to respond to the rest of the troll’s drivel. Suffice it to say that he seeks to show that I am in apparent contradiction, supporting closed-source games. In fact, I do believe that open and closed source software can coexist – just not closed-source OSes. The troll, on the other hand, wishes closed-source OSes to continue to enjoy their unfair advantage. He paints himself a capitalist, but in fact he is a monopolist.
As for Coral Snake, well, what can I say: opposites attract. I think him and the troll should go have their own private conversation – but avoid offsprings. The world isn’t ready for such a calamity.
[i]I do believe that open and closed source software can coexist – just not closed-source OSes.[i]
You’ll die with that dream, right along with Linux. Close sourced operating systems will be here forever, whether you continue to pirate them or not.
BACK TO GAMELAND, TROLL! OR GPL SOME GAMES FOR OUR KIDS!
I do believe that open and closed source software can coexist – just not closed-source OSes.
You’ll die with that dream, right along with Linux. Close sourced operating systems will be here forever, whether you continue to pirate them or not.
BACK TO YOUR FANTASY GAMELAND, TROLL! OR GPL SOME GAMES FOR OUR KIDS!
If you are a game programmer or designer, do *NOT* come to OSNEWS and tell us we need to open source our software but until you open source yours.
You have zero credibility, and are a complete hypocrite, if you don’t GPL your own software first.
Again, back up your words with some action. I am highly impressed with Coral Snake, who has offered to do just that.
The rest of you, who sit back and develop proprietary overcharged crap like games but tell us to GPL our own operating system software are completely full of BS.
Open source your own software, or shut the hell up about ours.
Three companies. In order:
1. SCOX – Stock price goes from $1 to $13. Insiders give themselves a boatload of options for $0.001 and laugh all the way to the bank.
2. Sun – Penguin-suit McNealy likes Linux when linux was just competing with ms-windows on the desktop, or low end servers. But when linux became enterprise capable, running ibm servers and the like. That is when Linux became a threat. Sun started making secret deals with Sco: buying drivers, and getting a boatload of cheap options in return. Since when is it common to get a load of cheap options when one company buys drivers from another? Sun also thought they would get companies converting from AIX.
3. Microsoft – A billion dollars worth of anti-linux fud for about $10 million. What a deal.
Ooh! The troll is angry! I’m positively shaking!
That was really funny! I must thank the troll for making me laugh so hard this morning…
Now, on a more serious note:
I have as much a right as the troll to come here and participate in OSNews discussions.
What software has the troll produced, that he should speak with such authority? Windows, perhaps, since he talks like a Microsoft employee?
I believe that proprietary and open software can coexist. Despite the troll’s blatant lies, I am not here to tell anyone that they should make their software open or closed source – he is the one who seems so keen on telling others what they should do. I DO believe that proprietary OSes are bad. I can see why this would make the troll react in such a way, as it undermines his whole argument (well, that and the fact that SCO continues to distribute Linux under the GPL) – he needs Linux advocates to be as rabid as he is to prove his point. Someone like me, who sees no problem with some software being open-source and some being closed-source, is a direct threat to his trolling pattern.
It’s all about choice. I am for choice, while the troll is against choice: he would force me to do open-source games before granting me the right to speak! The troll is against freedom, except for Microsoft. The troll has consistently refused to accept what the market has clearly shown: there is a good market for open-source OSes, server apps and productivity software, and there is a good market for 50$ console games. If the troll is unhappy, he can just stop buying games. Meanwhile, us in the real world will keep on with business as usual!
It’s really sad to see the troll try to change the subject so much. Every time he talks about games, he’s avoiding the main subject, i.e. that SCO has no case and that Linux will prevail.
Again: what software has the troll written so that he has the right to come and tell us what license we should or shouldn’t release our software under?
Oh, I’m happy to see that I’ve successfully trolled the troll, that he is now shouting like a 12 year-old kid, despite the fact that shouting on an Internet forum is tantamount to an admission of defeat. What next, he will threaten me with his 6’4″, 250 lbs frame?
Trolls, trolls, trolls…all talk, no substance.
Well I guess HTML is not an essential trolling skill…
Since the troll asked me so nicely to shut up:
Open source apps are ok.
Proprietary apps are ok.
Open source OSes are ok.
Open file formats are ok.
Proprietary OSes are bad.
Proprietary file formats are bad.
I preach harmony and a level playing field for all.
The troll preaches dominance by a single player.
That’s all you need to know.
top speed said:
“…since America has by far the greatest moral integrity of any nation on earth…”
You have GOT to be kidding. I’m American and even I can’t swallow that.
Well, what did you expect from a troll? Rational statements? 🙂
“buying an engine isn’t cheap either, unless you get an old or open-source one”
Not a troll, just a legitimate quesion: can you legally use oss engines in games designed for profit? Naturally, I assume these aren’t GPL, but I’d think that any useable oss creation–other than older ones released into the public domain–could not be used for profit without some sort of license. Thanks for the input.
According to today’s Nikkei Business Daily, those firms include the giants Fujitsu and NEC, with the former reported as saying it sees no reason to pay licence fees to SCO.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10635
An Australian Open Source group has filed a complaint with the country’s competitition regulator over SCO’s attempt to extract license fees from enterprise Linux users.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/31910.html
Actually, I don’t know. I guess it depends on whether the engine is GPL or not. I assume that a game made with a GPL engine would have to be GPL as well. Most companies will buy a commercial engine, or develop their own (which is costlier up front, but theoretically cheaper on the long run, and gives the programmers better control over its capabilities).
“Love or hate him, but he was right all along.”
Anyone remember when The Open Group tried to drive XFree86 into the ground by changing the licensing terms for their reference versions of X? Wasn’t long before GGI was born, and if the Open Group hadn’t reversed their plans, we’d have a completely differnt GUI on Linux today.
I believe SCO better watch their asses if they win this. What would happen if the same freedom-loving people who now contribute to Linux decide to switch over th the Hurd? Granted, it’s not going far right now, but what would happen?
Remember how Gnome got started?
If LInux gets damaged seriously, there WILL be a free alternative.
And, if the astrologers are any kind of accurate, it will be what everyone uses. Maybe not right away, but it will.
>>I would welcome a SCO subpoena, as I could then get in touch with IBM and act as a witness (perhaps I’d get some inside scoop!). I did nothing illegal and therefore have nothing to worry about.
In fact, I might send SCO an e-mail to inform them of what I did. Yes, that’s a good idea.<<
I did that very thing. Went to sco’s web site. Sent SCO this message: “According to SCO, I am using linux illegally. I have no intention to stop. I have no intention to purchase UnixWare. What are you going to do?” Then I gave my name, address, and phone number. Still waiting for a response.
…it will be that manipulative, rotten scumbags like McBride and Sontag will be in jail where they belong.
THAT will be part of the “oversight.”
I see:
Stock manipulation
Terrorism
Allegations without proof
Libel
…and possibly more, if someone doesn’t tell them to shut their mouths until the trial.
I also wonder how the hell the Caldera contributors can sit by and whatch all this go on.
“3. Microsoft – A billion dollars worth of anti-linux fud for about $10 million. What a deal.”
I believe they paid $57,000 for QDOS, because they didn’t have an OS to show IBM.
If I’d known Gates was that kind of person, I would never had recommended Windows for my shop.
if linux is a pirate os and an inferior unix clone, then why is SCO running linux???
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.sco.com
perhaps it is because their sacred cow is not up to the job?
Hey, if you look with attention to netcraft you will see that the servers hosted by caldera is running SCO UNIX, so Caldera host server run SCO UNIX.
Some of SCO servers are hosted by NFT witch is running linux.
If you see http://www.nft.com server host run linux.
“Hey, I understand you and most of the youth Linux society. You don’t understand how life works until you get your first job…. That’s why Linux crowd can never be more than like 2-3% of all users, since when people start working, they have to worry about being efficient and lower TCO.”
What jobs? Our gobernment and Fortune 500 CEOs are giving them away to you fooks faster then they can produce them.
VIVA Linux!
First, you’re not even able to spell my name correctly. It’s hard to take you seriously.
Second, you don’t even know if I’m a leftist or not. You don’t even know why I think SCO is wrong. You only speculate why, pretty much like all your arguments.
Third, there’s nothing wrong with my comment. You’re spreading FUD and now you know it. If you can’t stand PG-13 language, better go somewhere else like disney.com.
You’re a troll, plain and simple. Sad that Eugenia doesn’t have much time to moderate threads anymore.
Proprietary OSes are bad.
Proprietary file formats are bad.
And why proprietary OSes are bad? There’s nothing wrong with them. The only thing that is really bad is proprietary file formats. That’s what is locking many people from switching from one platform to another.
Well, proprietary OSes are not necessarily bad, except if their owner uses the unfair advantage of knowing the ins and outs of the OS – while witholding that info from competitors – so that they can have apps that run better and smoother. This is what MS has done with Windows.
An open OS gives everyone the same advantages, and therefore provides a level playing field for all. That’s my opinion, at least – we do agree on the file formats.
Well, proprietary OSes are not necessarily bad, except if their owner uses the unfair advantage of knowing the ins and outs of the OS – while witholding that info from competitors – so that they can have apps that run better and smoother. This is what MS has done with Windows.
Yeah, but we live in an unfair and dangerous world…
…however, unlike a certain troll who would censor Open-Source Software if he could, I do not think that proprietary OSes should be banned. I think they are bad but at the same time should be allowed to live. I believe that they are eventually doomed, but could be proven wrong.
In other words, I’ll let the market (or, more accurately, the users) decide on this one.
>>if linux is a pirate os and an inferior unix clone, then why is SCO running linux??? <<
What would you expect them to use? UnixWare? LOL!
SCO, and sco alone, can decide who can and can’t use linux, and which versions of linux, and when and how. And how much you will pay. Nobody else has any say in the matter.
SCO can give away linux on their web-site, but nobody else can. SCO can exempt Sun-Linux, and exempt Lindows. It’s all up to SCO.
I have to disagree
Open source apps are ok.
Proprietary apps are ok.
Open source OSes are ok.
Open file formats are ok.
Proprietary OSes are ok. ( this does not present a problem )
Proprietary file formats are bad. ( <– This is the real problem here. That and undocumented API layers used to give certian companies an edge when running apps on a certian OS. )
All right, I’ll agree with that. The problem is undocumented API layers used nefariously – not proprietary OSes per se. However, you can’t have such undocumented APIs in open-source OSes…
My reading of the GPL says that you are allowed to ask for “donation ware” fees for “services” like CD ROM distributions or “dead tree” manuals for such games. In fact this is precicely Linux distributors stay in buisness is through this one capitalistic portion of the GPL. (at least until Red Hat recently desided to dump the boxed distro and go the all “service” route.) In fact I will be distributing my Secrets of the Illuminati series of games both “free as in beer” over the internet and pay through CD distribution “donationware” CDs using this clause of the GPL
just like linux distributors.
This is true for PC games, but not console games. You need approval from the manufacturer (Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft) before you can publish a game for their consoles, and I can guarantee you that none of them would OK a GPLed game…
In other news (one I’m sure the Troll will like), looks like Microsoft’s got a giant-sized patent problem…
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,466180,0…
I’ll admit that I do tend to mispell a few times on these posts but it is because I post them from a “dial-up” connection that tends to “cut off” when doing spell checking.
The fact is however your reply violates conditions 1, 2, and 3 of the OS-NEWS terms of service while mine though of a desidedly “tin foil hat” to most people are clean and with an adult level of decorum and stay on topic by looking into a theory albeit a “tin foil hat” one as to both how and more importantly WHY SCO code might have gotten into Linux.
There is an unwritten rule in the Winows world DON’T OPEN EXECUTABLE E-MAIL ATTACHMENTS!!! due to the ease of virus infection by that route. I will now suggest a similar rule for Open Source Communities to avoid SCO like messes in the future.
DON’T ACCEPT CODE FROM MILTINATIONAL ILLUMINATI CORPERATIONS OR THEIR EMPLOYEES UNLESS IT IS PROVEN PUBLIC DOMAIN OR GPL!!!!
Grow up. You only post crap without any actual proof of anything. Then you never answer to the facts and instead change the subject and resort to name calling. Many people, including myself have brought up many valid points in previous threads that you have not even attempted to discredit because you cannot. I don’t think you actually know what the SCO case is about because if you did you would agree it is crap. I don’t feel like going through it again since it has been discussed on previous threads to no end. Besides that, you have not once answered those posts. The only credit I’ll give you is that you are a damn good troll because I and many others have felt the need to expose you as the fool that you are. I guess it’s just too hard to keep my mouth shut when it’s so easy to discredit you.
His name is TOP SPEED abraxas, and mine is Coral Snake as in black, yellow, red, Elapid and VENOMOUS. I have had far more interesting and adult conversation with this Microsoftie douring this thread than I have had with ANY of my fellow Linux users who seem to be nothing but fowl mouthed refugees from slash filth. This thread will probably
be going “under the radar” tommorrow but I will be looking foreward to talking with him again when SCO, Intellectual Property Theft, Conspiracies in general or other issues that he seems to be interested in come up here.
In the mean time I leave you with the same advice I gave Wrawrat for the open source communities.
DON’T ACCEPT CODE FROM MULTINATIONAL ILLUMINATI CORPERATIONS UNLESS THEY PROVE THAT IT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN OR GPLed AND THAT THEY HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO PUT IT UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS!!!
Bring it on, I said. Post my comments in italics, and provide a respectable (non slashdot or blog) link to a published journal of any sort to corroborate your arguments.
Twenty four hours (24) have passed and you guys still don’t have anything?
I see Archie put up some link about Microsoft, but what does that have to do with IBM/Linux? Pathetic.
Except for Coral Snake! He has proven himself to be an Open Source advocate I can respect. When the rest of you realize the principle of his positions, you too might one day aspire to present your facts and positions as well as he does. If you do, I will address you more respectably as well. Till then, you’re a joke.
or do TopSpeed and Coral Snake are beginning to sound more and more like the same person? The fact that they both repeat how much they enjoy talking to one another, even though in reality they should be arguing – seeing as one is the stereotypical “paranoid” Linux zealot (too over the top to be authentic, in my view) and the other is a diehard MS defender and anti-Linux troll? In fact, Coral Snake has indicated that, whenever TopSpeed’s there to discuss SCO, IP theft and such, he’ll be there to continue “discussing” with him – like Clark Kent, never far behind Superman. I wouldn’t be suprised if the “enlightened” TopSpeed even successfully converted the renegade Snake and made him an apostle of proprietary software.
This isn’t just pure speculation. I’ve noticed a growing number of similarities in their writing patters. I’ve also noted that they both seem to be displaying the tendency to end their messages with all caps rants…something I have yet to see someone else do on these threads.
They also both seem to assume without question that there is SCO code in Linux, and that IBM put it there, even though so far there’s been no proof of this. They also both voluntarily ignore the fact that SCO has continued to distribute this code under the GPL since making those accusations.
They do not have the same adress next to their username, but that’s no proof. One can easily use a remote desktop or computer to spoof this address. TopSpeed himself bragged about spoofing his own address to peruse SCO’s public ftp site.
Assuming false identities is part of the troll’s arsenal, and I think that this is such a case. Not to mention the fact that, by making his Linux-loving persona sound like a raving anti-capitalist maniac (which is ironic considering that he himself doesn’t seem to think that the market should be allowed to choose open-source), the troll can thus discredit those he opposes by casting them in a bad light.
I could be wrong, of course – they could be just like reverse images of each other, trolls from both end of the spectrum. And, like all extremists, they are closer to each other than to moderates.
But I’ve got a pretty strong feeling about this one, and I’ve rarely been proven wrong when I get this feeling. That comes with spending way too much time on forums and newsgroups, I guess.
So, a show of hands, here: who thinks TopSpeed and Coral Snake are one and the same (the trolls can’t vote, of course!)
You bring proof to SCO’s allegations. The burden of proof is on them: innocent until proven guilty.
You want us to corroborate our arguments, but you won’t accept our sources? Why should we accept yours?
I did prove you wrong, with something even stronger than a “trusted” media source: I demonstrated (as others have done) that SCO are still distributing Linux under the GPL on their public FTP site.
Ha! Now I’m convinced you and Coral Snake are the same. Of course you will vehemently deny it. But I’ve unmasked you. Another I’ve just noticed is that posts under both names often appear within the same time frame. Eerie timing? Or just the time it takes to write another message and post it under a different name, from a different domain?
So, a show of hands, here: who thinks TopSpeed and Coral Snake are one and the same (the trolls can’t vote, of course!)
LMFAO!!! Archie Steel you are the most delusional paranoid person I have ever seen! STILL ROFLMFAO!!
…so how does it feel to be unmasked?
You want us to corroborate our arguments, but you won’t accept our sources? Why should we accept yours?
<p>
Because mine are respected trade journals, in print publication, including technical ones like EE Times or Financial ones like Business Week.
I don’t post every link on every thread, but in the last few days I have provided countless corroborative links of my opinions that belonged to sources in print. Heard of ZDNet, who owns CNet and TechTV? Well that’s who wrote the article that is the basis of this thread, and those are the kind of guys that know what is going on in the industry, not some hack from Linux website of the week which is all I ever see from you, Mr. Game Programmer.
…about SCO still distributing Linux under the GPL. Oh, and have you read the recent articles? It seems very few people are taking SCO’s allegations seriously. IBM is disputing that the code SCO is referring to belongs to them at all. MS is accused of patent infringement. McBride was curtly asked to shut up in Japan. Australian Linux groups are seeking injunctions against SCO – others will follow. And I’m still not a programmer.
Good night, TopSnake. Now that I’ve unmasked you, you are no longer of any interest. I’ve given you the proof that SCO has released Linux under the GPL – better proof than you can find in ZDNet publications, because you can actually verify it for yourself.
You have lost, TopSnake. Admit it.
Still LOL at his message above.
Just counted, about 20 words on the first line, about 25 lines, that was at least 500 words in a rambling incoherrent soliloquy claiming me and Coral Snake to be the same person.
Great analysis Archie. I don’t even know who in the hell Coral Snake is, but he has a hell of a lot more class and dignity than you probably ever will.
…SCO still distributing Linux under the GPL…
I know all about that Archie. We’ve been over it how many times?
Provide some corroboration to your claims if you expect them to be taken seriously.
Top Speed and I Are NOT the same. I would assume that he lives in or near Redmond Washington and works on Windows since he has identified himself as an closed source Operating System programmer in his posts about games. I on the other hand have the misfortune to live in California with its idiot traitor governor, rediculous gun control laws and disgusting 10 story Bohemian Owl statue that your
“friends” at the top level of IBM probably worship every Summer Solstice. I am also starting out in the field of GPL
“donationware” games using the GPL DooM engine. Quite a different activity from closed source Windows system development.
I live in Florida, Coral Snake lives in California.
So Archie Steel only missed his estimate on his insane proclomation by say, 3,000 (three thousand) miles?
What a fruitcake. In any event, later Snake.
Coral Snake: my brother and his family live in Bakersfield, so I know that despite it’s problems there are good places to live in California. He is making the most of it, hope it works out for you too. Take care and see you later.
Because mine are respected trade journals, in print publication, including technical ones like EE Times or Financial ones like Business Week.
I’m sorry, but it’s not because these sources are popular that they are more true. I suppose you are aware of what happened to the New York Times journal, don’t you?
Anyway, you seem to claim loudly and proudly that Linux hackers are stealing code, but you don’t have any proof. Your sources ain’t backing your strance as they seem to be composed only opinions and editorials. It’s not because a so-called expert says something that he is automatically right even if he was in the past. I must admit that many claims and “evidences” of conspiracy from the Linux community are ludicrous, even stupid, but we see the same thing from the other side.
Btw, proving that there’s code is one thing, but proving who put the code is another. Some SysV code might be in Linux, but SCO’s claims would be hardly valid if they added it themselves… or if they de-GPL’d some code and then claim it to be their own code. AT&T & co. once tried to do that, and they’ve “lost” their case (they didn’t really lost, but they didn’t won) even if Unix code was in the BSD kernel.
Anyway… I said it before, and I’ll say it again: only SCO right now knows the truth… and they can manipulate it like they want for the moment. We can only speculate ’till the case goes in court if it ever goes there.
Bring it on, I said. Post my comments in italics, and provide a respectable (non slashdot or blog) link to a published journal of any sort to corroborate your arguments.
You’re asking David to fight against Goliath without his slingshot. The Linux community can hardly get their messages to the mass-media market because they don’t have the money. Furthermore, their messages are not really, um, “sellable”. Do you think the average Joe really knows what is Linux? No. However, he knows who’s IBM and he’ll surely delighted to see a fight between an almost unknown company (SCO) and Big Blue. That’s what sells. It doesn’t make their messages less credible, though. You’re just biased by not accepting them.
Except for Coral Snake! He has proven himself to be an Open Source advocate I can respect. When the rest of you realize the principle of his positions, you too might one day aspire to present your facts and positions as well as he does.
I’m sorry, but he’s spewing hot air. I’m not a fan of conspiration theories. It might be the truth, but I have yet to see a source defending his position. I won’t even consider it ’till he add some meat to the bone. Using his own analogies, he’s only a venomous snake in a window display in a pet shop. He won’t hurt anybody.
Btw archie steel, you are getting a bit ridiculous… They are clearly not the same person, so please don’t start theories like this, too.
I’m sorry, but it’s not because these sources are popular that they are more true. I suppose you are aware of what happened to the New York Times journal, don’t you?
Still fudging your position huh. I said respected trade journal, not some newsrag.
…only SCO right now knows the truth… and they can manipulate it like they want for the moment…
BS. Sign the NDA and see for yourself. Apparently some in the linux community have even been bothered by what they saw.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6956&mode=thread&order=…
You’re asking David to fight against Goliath without his slingshot. The Linux community can hardly get their messages to the mass-media market because they don’t have the money.
Your BS is getting deeper. This is I.B.M. we’re talking about!
Btw archie steel, you are getting a bit ridiculous…
Agreed. That guy is a raving luni.
Still fudging your position huh. I said respected trade journal, not some newsrag.
Trade journals, newsrag, it doesn’t matter. My comment still apply to them.
BS. Sign the NDA and see for yourself. Apparently some in the linux community have even been bothered by what they saw.
Yes, I could to see the proofs myself, but I don’t have time nor money to lose and I want to be locked to a draconian NDA for the rest of my life. Btw, did you read the article? The author was not really satisfied of the proofs SCO shown to him. That said, did you signed the NDA and saw the proofs yourself? If no, then you’re in the same position as me: you can only speculate. Yes, I don’t believe that SCO have a strong case, but I came to that conclusion by analyzing the whole situation. However, I know that I’ve only seen speculation, so I can’t say that they’re dead wrong.
Your BS is getting deeper. This is I.B.M. we’re talking about!
IBM adopted the “wait and see” position. It was even stated in one of your sources. It’s not because they’re not saying anything that they’re not doing anything or that they’re automatically guilty. Perhaps IBM has nothing to do with the code leakage/theft. You were talking of the lack of credibility of the Linux community sources… and I gave you an answer.
Ahem, …and I want to be locked… should be and I don’t want to be locked….
Fortunately this thread is also “under the radar” now and requires the “last seven days” click to get to it. Hopefully the next time these issues come up here I will be able to find more people with intellegence than Top Speed.
You’re saying that I should be moderated because I’m violating the T&C… but you’re trolling.
Practice what you preach.
I have NEVER said that linux coders stole the code themselves. My contention Is that IBM gave them “hot” code as a result of a plot that was developed during one of the One World Elite’s yearly secret meetings in 1999 or during one of their midsummer owl worship fests out here in commiefornia
Coral Snake – check out this article by John Dvorak, read the parts about David Boies very carefully. They fall right in line with what you are saying:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.asp
For those who may not be familiar with Mr. Dvorak, let’s just say he is easily one of if not the most respected and well known analysts in the business. And by the way, these comments recently appeared in print.
See you Snake.
“Provide some corroboration to your claims if you expect them to be taken seriously.”
I have. You can download Linux from the SCO FTP site. The RPM headers indicated that the kernel is licensed under the GPL. The srpms contain the actual license.
You can’t get any more corroborationt than that.
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m right. I’m pretty good at analyzing writing patterns, and TopSpeed and Coral Snake’s are nearly identical.
Don’t you find it strange, that despite the fact that they’re supposed to be complete opposites, they agree on almost everything and keep repeating how much they respect each other?
But really, who cares, since they’re both trolling this board, making wild allegations.
Then again, maybe Wrawrat and I are the same person as well!
(Just playing with your minds…or am I? 🙂
Hey Archie, just some friendly advice: before you dare post again, how about looking up the definition of the word “corroboration” before you incorrectly use it again and make an even bigger fool of yourself than you’ve already shown.
You’re still denying the proof I gave you that SCO is still releasing Linux under the GPL, huh? Well I guessed you would, since it invalidates your whole theory.
If you had half a brain, you would have understood that with the given link you could have corroborated the evidence yourself. Or maybe you don’t trust your own eyes, but only what you read on cnet/zdnet?
LMAO at this fruitcake. He still doesn’t even know what the word “corroboration” means, but instead somehow thinks he has it but I don’t.
“to support with evidence or authority : make more certain
synonym see CONFIRM”
As I said, following the link I gave will provide you with material evidence.
Exhibit A: you can download the file
Exhibit B: it is on a public FTP server
Exhibit C: it is distributed under the GPL (as indicated by RPM headers and licenses found in SRPMs)
Therefore, my claims that SCO is still distributing Linux under the GPL are corroborated by material evidence found on SCO’s site.
Now, I’ve also proved that you obviously don’t know what “corroborate” means – and English is not even my first language!
Nice try, troll…
English is not even my first language!
I should have known. You’re probably some foreign communist plant, either consciously or subconciously.
<img src=”http://www.pintmaster.com/essays/marx_files/image002.gif“>
A favorite refuge of scoundrels. Still, you should be worried that I, a foreigner, should be more proficient in my use of the English language than you, a native of the mighty mighty U.S. of A. I guess it’s one of the telltalle signs of the Empire’s decadence.
Florida, eh? I should have known. That’s where all the rabid, paranoid anti-communists like to congregate. As for me, I’m not a communist, but rather a libertarian leftist.
Anyway, since you so subtly avoided to confront the proof (the “corroboration”) I have offered, I’m led to believe that you have finally accepted it. Good. We can move on to other things (and threads), then.
As far as “communist Linux art” goes, I much prefer this one:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?file=6764-1.png
Enjoy, comrade!
(P.S. again, funny how as an alleged capitalist you are opposed to let the market decide on Open-Source OSes and apps, and closed-source games.)
I have just returned from the SCO web site where I was examining these matters for myself so be careful how you reply to this.
While there I have found NOTHING relating the “public” FTP site you claim is still distributing SCO/Caldera Linux under the GPL. So I went to their legal on site download list and the only thing I found there relating to SCO Linux was a download version of the “dead tree” manual that they shipped with boxed distributions of the product when they were still selling them. It is therefore a far more likely possibility that you have gotten into a PRIVATE FTP site that is being used by SCO to store their Linux distribution
until the intellectual property theft problems with Linux in general can be streightened out in the pending SCO V IBM
trial or by other means. It therefore seems that certain people on this thread can add software pirating, “black hat” hacking and lying to foul language and communism in your arsonal of “adult” communication skills. As you should know from my previous posts on this thread I am a well practiced amateur detective when it comes to investegation and farreting out conspiracies weather they be found in world history or here in a simple OS news thread. However what do we expect from commies. As a rule they only lie when their lips move or their fingers come into contact with a keyboard ;-).
Because for a anti-government, allegedly Linux-loving paranoid, that doesn’t sound very convincing.
For starters, you don’t seem to know what anonymous ftp access means – which is kind of strange for a techno-geek.
Anonymous ftp access, that is access to a ftp site without need for a login and password, has always been considered public. If someone wants a ftp site for paying customers (as you suggest) then what a company does is issue permission to use the ftp site with a non-anonymous login and a password. This is a basic step you do as a company to try and limit piracy.
Web adresses for ftp sites can (insecurely) include login and password, and therefore grant direct access into the ftp server file tree. This takes the form of ftp://login:password@whatever.ftpsite.onthe.net
(Don’t click on this link. It’s just an example.
You’ll notice that the link I provided (ftp://ftp.sco.com/pub/updates/OpenLinux/3.1.1/Server/current/RPMS/) does not contain such login information information. You’ll also notice that it’s on Sco’s main site (ftp.sco.com) and it’s on /pub, another dead giveaway that this is public ftp access. In fact, this was most certainly the address people used to freely download OpenLinux before this whole thing got started. For all you know, someone like me could have had such a bookmark on his browser for months…
I think you may be unaware (again, strange for a stereotypical “hacker”) that before there was such a thing as the Web, software companies used other Internet protocols extensively – of which ftp was the main one used for file transfers. Just because there isn’t a link on the Web page doesn’t mean it’s not freely accessible. I find it troubling that a self-confessed Linux head wouldn’t know these things.
You really should talk about this with your alter ego, TopSpeed. Since he’s the one who publicly claimed on another thread that he had “spoofed his IP” to peruse the contents of the ftp site, I guess he the blacker hat of us two, since I’m not sure how can spoof and IP and still connect to a ftp site, which requires two-way connection if I’m not mistaked. Hey, TopSpeed (since you’re obviously reading this as well), tell me, what program did you use to spoof your IP and connect to a ftp server?
In the meantime, if SCO wants me to delete this file, because somehow someone up there messed up permissions, then all they have to do is to send me a nice letter asking me so – which I’ll be sure to post on the Web for all to see. 🙂
…is how you hunt down a Coral Snake, even when it’s running at Top Speed.
Right now http://www.sco.com is the only LEGITIMATE site to contact them for software purchases, licensing, or DOWNLOADS since they made their current policy of not selling SCO/Caldera Linux products. and your http://ftp.site IS NOT THERE. Also http://www.sco.com is now their MAIN site and not the FTP site.
Cmon Mr. Steele admit that both you and SCO got stung by the Illuminati in this mess. They’ve been doing this sort of thing for hundreds of years and there is no shame in admitting that such multi generational experts in chicanery were able to sting a small proprietary software business such as SCO and an ammateur community OS project such as linux. I would also call on Darl Mc. Bride to admit to this possibility as well and let’s get this mess with Linux properly hammered out to everybody’s satisfaction and the Illuminati elitists at IBM properly punished for Software Piracy.
…then they would have taken down their public ftp site. http://www.sco.com is the main WEB site, while http://ftp.sco.com is the main FTP site – they both belong to the sco.com domain.It is a public ftp site. End of story.
I guess you’re not that much familiar with the Internet and its various protocols – gee, how are you going to fend off the Illuminati when they come for you through your broadband connection, I wonder?
(Oh, and as an aside, the Bavarian Illuminati may or may not have survived Adam Weishaupt’s death, and may or may not have successfully infiltrated the Masons back in the 18th century. Similarly, the Masons may or may not have been the puppet masters of the Founding Fathers. In any case, I fail to see the link with the SCO case and their ftp site. Anyway, every self-respecting Illuminati aficionado knows that this the force behind this is really a alliance between the Network and the UFO’s, while the Servants of Cthulhu are nowhere to be seen…)
Here is the source rpms for SCO Linux (the other link was for OpenLinux).
ftp://ftp.sco.com/pub/scolinux/server/4.0/updates/SRPMS
I dare you to click on that link! 😉
have just returned from the SCO web site where I was examining these matters for myself so be careful how you reply to this. While there I have found NOTHING relating the “public” FTP site you claim is still distributing SCO/Caldera Linux under the GPL.
<p>
I agree Coral Snake, I have been to SCO’s site at 5 times and I have never seen any mention of this as an authorized download.
<p>
It says in multiple locations that SCO has “suspended” all Linux activities. It also says they have questions about the legality of Linux.
<p>
If you go to http://ftp.sco.com (at least with IE, by far the #1 browser available) it says clearly as soon as you connect:
<p>
Welcome to SCO’s FTP site. This site hosts UNIX software, patches, device drivers and suppliments from SCO.
<P>
So I don’t see an authorization for ‘Linux downloads currently available from FTP’ anywhere. So any attempted download is ILLEGAL since it is explicitly not approved.
<p>
You linux fools will soon find that anything you downloaded from SCO probably has trojan horses, encoded dates, and whois tracking capability and you will be receiving your warrants to report to court soon. Hint for you foreigners: it’s when the “sherrif” shows up at your door.
They’ve been doing this sort of thing for hundreds of years and there is no shame in admitting that such multi generational experts in chicanery were able to sting a small proprietary software business such as SCO and an ammateur community OS project such as linux.
<p>
Excellent point, most of those LUGS (Linux User Groups) are nothing more than a deer in headlights when it comes to having a clue as to what is going on here. It’s like watching a lost penguin wonder up on a polar bear at the zoo.
You are truly sad.
It was already obvious you are a ‘paranoid delusional’.
But now, we can also see you can be ‘obsessive’ as well.
My guess?
Bi-Polar ie Manic Depressive.
There is hope. I am not here to hurt you, only to help. You just have to admit you need the help, which is always the problem.
…Coral Snake’s the one bringing up the illuminati, you’re the one that keeps posting the same thing over and over again, and then I’m the paranoid schizophrenic with an obsessive personality? What, did you actually whip out a DMS-IV and looked it up, or do you just repeat whatever the diagnosis your therapist gave you? After all, you’re the one with multiple (online) personality disorder – and in this case, I think you’re definitely projecting your own neuroses onto me. Through friends, family and lovers, I do know a few people in the mental health profession. If you decide that you’re ready to face your problems head on, they can perhaps refer you to someone.
Wow. I’d already figured out that you didn’t know squat about making video games, then you showed you had no clue what a public ftp site is – now you display your lack of knowledge in psychology. That’s pretty impressive. What else do you know nothing about? What are your other areas of non-expertise?
How many times have you denied the obvious in this thread? I’ve lost count. Why am I still talking to you? Well, you amuse me. And you have a fascinating desire to have the last word, coming back to post just in case I might have moved on, as if the act of closing the conversation somehow validated the wild allegations and outright lies you’ve printed here. Unfortunately (for you) that’s not true.
Anyway, all the denial on your part will not make this basic fact untrue: SCO is still distributing Linux on its Public FTP site. Obviously you can’t cope with having to admit this corroborated, absolutely verifiable fact, so you make even wilder allegations and personal attacks (which don’t bother me at all, I’m quite happy with my mental state!)
And if you don’t know who the Servants of Cthulhu is, then I’m afraid there’s nothing I can do for you.
Through friends, family and lovers, I do know a few people in the mental health profession.
I’m sure you do. I suggest you seek them out at your earliest opportunity. Simply provide them a printout of this thread, leave the rest up to the professionals.
…I actually bet with a friend here that this is what you would say. Thanks to you, I got a free beer! 🙂
I guess, anything to draw attention away from the fact that you’ve been proved wrong multiple times on this thread will do, eh?
I’ve proved before that I can admit when shown wrong. You’ve proved repeatedly that you are incapable of this, even when presented with solid evidence. Every time I’ve brought it up, you’ve either changed the subject or come up with more fabrications.
If anyone’s delusional here, it’s you, TopSnake. I really hope you’re being paid by SCO and/or Microsoft, otherwise you are a sad, sad individual.
I’m meeelting! Meeelting!
ROTFL!
You can do it!
@ Archie Steel!!!