The SCO Group is preparing a new Linux licensing program that it claims will allow users of the open-source operating system to run Linux without fear of litigation. The program will be announced “within the next month or so,” according to SCO spokesman Blake Stowell, but on Monday the company will announce what he calls a “precursor” to this program in a press conference with SCO Chief Executive Officer Darl McBride and SCO’s high-profile attorney David Boies, of the firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner.
SCO Readies new Linux Licensing Program
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…we finally see what the ultimate goal of the legal campaign was. No, it wasn’t much of a surprise at all. McBride’s balls are pretty damned big, I must say!
Would you pay SCO for Linux license?
If you use their code in the kernel, you lose the right of everything else of it, due to GPL.., no?
“hoping that even if 99 percent of Linux customers laugh in their face, that there will be sufficient large companies who, for what is presumably going to be a relative drop in the bucket of their IT budgets, can potentially eliminate a cloud over their heads,”
Strange that, spammers use the same strategy, living off the 1 % of people that actually act on spam emails, and the other 99% forward the spam to the trash…
SCO’s learnt from the masters…
If SCO tries to relicense GPL code they have no idea the *hit storm they are in-for.
Wasn’t this the “hero” that was cheered on for royally rubbing Bill Gates’ nose in it just a few years back? What happened?
This is just to stir things up. SCO hasn’t gotten any attention this week and are feeling needy.
And I can’t believe anyone would give them one lousy dime until after the court case.
Bob
It’s just extortion. Demanding money without providing any proof. I’m suprised they can get away with it.
Screw them and piss them down the toilet. My 2 cents.
Hahahahaha….So I am an illegal GNU/Linux user.
hahahahahaha….
*wipes tears off face*
Phew….SCO should promptly replace comedy central.
SCO is the funniest company I’ve ever seen. They should start licensing Monty Pythons intellectual property if that licensing thing for Linux is becoming real.
I’m getting ready to launch my new “Kiss My Ass” Licensing program that will allow all stupid companies (and just plain old morons) to purchase a license that will allow them to piss me off without fear of being punched into tomorrow. I can sense the line to purchase them growing as I type….
I really like Windows XP, and I hate Linux and all open source… GPL is killing the economy. I hope all you Linux users pay to get Windows XP instead of giving it to SCO.
Interesting..they want to charge linux users a fee..for , IP, or , code, or is it libraries, that they wont disclose, and, which they have not yet even proved to be theirs in a court of law. This is almost as good as the rumored Metallica lawsuit in which they sue for another band using the F and C chord ..This is truly FUD taken to a whole new level. Blake, Dave, Daryl.. wake up and smell the coffee…By the time you have your day in court.. linux 2.6 will be so utterly sanitized that all you will have are bills from your attorney. I am so very much looking forward to the day ..when Your company closes its doors. and yur code is released to the public. I look forward to that almost as much as i look forward to watching you try to get a job in anything computer related in the future.
They have still to prove anything in their phony case against IBM let alone see a day in court over it. I just hope no company is stupid enough to give this two bit con-artist CEO and his company any money.
Nice troll…here’s a cookie. Now turn around so I can kick you in your arse.
< Stowell declined to provide specific details of SCO’s new licensing program, saying only, “we’re working on some details to try and create some kind of a licensing program for Linux users to be able to run Linux legally.” >
I AM RUNNING LINUX LEGALLY YOU FRIGGIN THICK B–STARDS, You havent won your case yet and Im not interested in funding your lawsuits, When a Judge comes along and finds that your case has merit and finds in your favor then and only then will I even consider paying you a dime. Until then, take your licensing agreement and shove it right up your <beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep>
All talk and no action is what I have seen from SCO. I think they are going to try and bully their way into “owning” Linux. What right do they have to start a licensing program for Linux when they haven’t disclosed the “alleged stolen code? I am a proud user of FreeBSD (which I discovered last year) and Linux (Slackware 9.0). I am also forced to use “winders” for certain work tasks.
The inroads that Linux has made is enough to make anyone sit up and take notice. The problem is “they can’t legitimately make money from it”. So they are going to try to extort it.
Let them try! Ha Ha!
“The SCO Group is preparing a new Linux licensing program that it claims will allow users of the open-source operating system to run Linux without fear of litigation. ”
Fear of…? More like laughed at… Let me know when something of import actually happens. I’m going to bed.
What kind of ass do you have to be to think that your 80 lines of around 2 million give you the right to start liscencing a product to users?
No I don’t think any SCO code is actually in the kernel but Jesus this just keeps getting more and more outrageous.
It took a few for me to figure it out. They’re going after users, not distributers. If a user lincenses from them without distributing, then noone runs afoul of the GPL. A linux distributer can’t license the code, since they’d violate the GPL by distributing code along with the kernel they haven’t the rights too. Much as I hate to admidt it, this is all nice and legal; and SCO isn’t giving up anything by doing this.
<GPL is killing the economy>
God will any of you Windoze trolls ever study a little economics and logic before touching your key boards. Fact is many companies that use Linux use their savings to expand in other areas. Its the same old saw – You can spend your money on an OS or you can spend it on a new printer or scanner or well you get the idea. The only change is who gets the money, unless you are sticking it under you mattress it will get spent or invested.
I truly dislike dunder heads that refuse to think before they act.
As for SCO, until they prove that they are the rightful copyright holder to any Linux code I will continue to recognize the copyright on GLP Linux now as does the law. In fact trying to sell a commercial license for a GPL software may open them to legal action, in that they would be claiming proprietary rights to code that is GPL or they are selling you a worthless license under false pretense (called fraud). The delays I am sure are because they and their lawyers are trying to figure a way to sell worthless items under a false pretense of value without getting sued or prosecuted. SCO is now trying to engage what is called extortion because the only value tied to the so called license it that if you pay up SCO wont harass you in the future.
When SCO released the SCO Linux they did in fact GPL any common code regardless of the source because all of Linux is Open Source. Now if they did not bother to read the contract (including the source code) before signing the contract – they still signed up. The fact is that because Linux is open They should have read it before signing off on the GPL license. In that they had both Linux code and their Unix codes in hand before signing off they and only they had complete knowledge in hand but signed it away. Therefore the law will find their actions as knowing and willful and therefore binding.
Maybe its time to claim that the common code is in fact stolen from GPL and that they either show that they are the true copyright holder of that code or GPL the affected SCO Unix code. Remember if they did use GPL’d code in the kernel of their Unix’s then they probably GPL’d their Unix code. So it is quite possible that all SCO Unix code is not GPL.
Don’t forget that Linux is a Trademark held by Linus Torvalds. I hope SCO have asked permission from Linus before using this term in their proposed licence.
Since IBM obviously has access to SCO UNIX source code, couldn’t they locate the matching code themselves so Linux developers know what to rewrite? (C’mon, string matching algorithms are fast and powerful these days …)
If they can’t find it, I suggest they should rush the thing to court to get it over with. With all due respect, the well-intentioned linux proponents on this forum seem to underestimate the damage the whole SCO affair is doing to Linux deployment in companies.
This is extortion. Before they start telling people to license their stuff, they must make known exactly what is wrong with Linux. Isn’t there some law which protects users in this regard anyway. I mean, if I had some code of mine which I discovered was stolen by MS, could I go and start sueing 95% of the people with computers for selling something they could not have known about. I think the law protects people from things they couldn’t have known, or is it one of the shortcomings of the DMCA. I think it is different from buying pirate software here. Or pirate music cd’s for that matter, where a consumer can know beforehand if there is a good chance they are buying somethin g illegal.
Unless SCO is claiming that none of the Linux kernel (or any portion of any other work (by which I mean a single “work for copyright/license purposes) constituting a part of what SCO is referring to as “Linux”) constitutes 3rd party copyrighted code licensed to SCO under the GPL, I do not understand how SCO could “license” such work to a “user” other than (i) in violation of the GPL license of the 3rd-party copyright holder or (ii) under the GPL (that is, w/ source, w/ distribution/modification rights and w/o any other conditions on redistribution under the GPL). In the later case, once one “user” obtained a license, he could relicense it to distro makers, etc. under the GPL.
Of course, SCO could be (i) alleging that it has rights to all such code on a non-GPL basis, (ii) alleging that the GPL is not binding on it or (iii) instead of “licensing”, selling a waiver from claims by SCO (“In exchange for $X, SCO agrees not to sue you for IP violations relating to your use of SCO Linux”). The first two alternatives could provoke litigation by the 3rd party copyright holders. The third alternative has the advantage of allowing SCO to get money out of risk-averse deep pockets without provoking third party litigation.
The answer is….
A.) There is no code from SCO.
or
B.) They have already done so very quietly.
Don’t you undestand, the original post is a yank and for some reason yanks haven’t actually realised that the cold war is over. There is no such thing as a communist state and anything contra to the US mantra isn’t Communist or anti-American.
People who complain they should get quality computers for $200, THEY’RE the ones causing the problem, people who live beyond their means and don’t save money, they’re the cause. There are many causes of the economic decline but blaming some non-physical entity isn’t going to fix any problems.
Or the code is actually developed and licensed by IBM. The proceedure at the heart of it was developed BY IBM for IBM. IBM can do what ever it bloody well likes with it. Basically SCO is pushing some sort of contract as if it was a closed source version of the GPL license, meaning, anything added ontop of SCO’s IP instantly becomes theirs.
IBM isn’t that stupid and the sooner IBM grind the little pimp-squeak into a bloody puddle of mess, the better. IMHO, they should be absolutely ruthless in their dealings with SCO and make Darl Bride wish that he was ever born.
Nope, sorry, it’s GNU/Linux^TM.
And this gives the entire GNU/BSD Linux/Unix community a choke-hold on them.
The only problem is that we don’t seem to have enough common purpose yet. I think we’re mostly too generous to consider taking them to pieces for proven fraud and extortion, never mind the insider trading.
Sad, isn’t it?!
F**k off SCO
dysprosia,
I’m using a Slackware GNU/Linux system, but as far as I know Linus only has a trademark for Linux (the kernel) and not the entire GNU/Linux ensemble. I doubt there is such a thing as GNU/Linux ™, and if there is, it’s probably Stalmann’s.
Besides, SCO doesn’t have (for now) any quarrel with GNU so if they don’t involve the GNU project in this mess, I don’t think we should
Best Regards,
Miron Brezuleanu
In my country they are not even allowed to *allege* that Linux violates IP and they want my money..?! Someone pass me their e-mail address so I can laugh at them…
I’m using a Slackware GNU/Linux system
No you aren’t, you’re using a Slackware Linux system. Some distributions (like Slackware) call themselves Linux distributions and some distributions (like Debian) call themselves GNU/Linux distributions.
These are there proper names. Slackware Linux. Debian GNU/Linux. Respect Stallman’s desire to call it speak of GNU/Linux distributions in general if you must, but also respect people’s right to name their own products. Fair’s fair.
Oh, and I think dysprosia, if that is his real name, was being humorous.
————————————
I really like Windows XP, and I hate Linux and all open source… GPL is killing the economy. I hope all you Linux users pay to get Windows XP instead of giving it to SCO.
————————————-
Are you a stupid american troll ? Microsoft now is not a true american company. It is a multinational marketing company and they don’t have any scruples to fire americans and employ indians or even to transfer Microsoft’s headquarters to another country.
With the money saved by use of free software, companies can buy hardware or use it to employ more americans.
Take your best shot… I dare you..
-Hey….
What???
-You stole that from me…
How?
-I had it…
You did?
-I think so…
And where is it now?
-What?
What I stole from you…
-So you admit to it heh?
I did nothing of the sort…
-Pay me back or I will tell Mo.
No you won’t.
-I just did…
…no comments…
GNU & all others who hold copyright on *any* programs/code SCO is known to distribute/use in-house ought to immediately revoke SCO’s right to use those programs/code, and then litigate, litigate, litigate them into oblivion—not with one big lawsuit, but with the “death of a thousand cuts” caused by hundreds or thousands of small lawsuits. Their legal staff simply could not keep up, especially if there are small claims court dates all over the US. Stand up, citizens! Use the legal system corporations are using against you!
Not a chance in Hades, SCO.
(I’m being polite to keep from being cut.)
I really like Windows XP, and I hate Linux and all open source… GPL is killing the economy. I hope all you Linux users pay to get Windows XP instead of giving it to SCO.
Hey!! Tell Steve Ballmer to stop trolling here!! (LOL!!!)
well, actually its Linux^TM because its the kernel thier talking about not the OS
An entity granting or denying any priviledges to something, gets the power to grant or deny those priviledges only when others play along, retroactively presupposing that the entity has had such power. It’s like the old arguement that those who deny God’s existence acknowledge God, if indirectly.
SCO’s statement is best IGNORED.
So much noise and so little content.
On the one hand the kernel developers should just replace the (very small part of the) code SCO claims rights on just to be safe. At the other hand this case shows us again that the american laws are just inviting to sue the shit out of anybody you like…
Jm2cts
why don’t we start thinking about a way to face this unbelievable fascist attack? we could start thinking about a public subscription in order to get the funds for GNU or Linus or anyone else to countersue them, or something like that…let them know there’s a strong community behind Open Source software that, besides ignoring their insane “licensing programs”, is determined not to let them kill our freedom.
You provide me with a constant stream of humor. Your insane ever changing never proved claims creates in me a craving for more. I reload your SEC page every day so that I can stay up to date with all the insiders selling off their SCO stock. I can’t wait till monday to hear the reports of your insane rantings during the conference-call.
This is to notify you that you are hereby in violation of IP copyright laws as held and administered by me, Captain Chris. I have proof that my OSNews page–the one that appears on my computer screen–came first: the ones you are using are the same as mine, see? The rest of you have illegally copied and stolen it. You must cease and desist all OSNews activities immediately or face legal action. However, if you’d like to license your own copy of the OSNews page from me….
“There is no such thing as a communist state”
Off topic, but…Cuba, North Korea, and the People’s Republic of China–where the only legal parties are the Communist Party–aren’t communist states? Perhaps instead of insulting people somebody should take a World Politics class next semester.
>>It’s just extortion. Demanding money without providing any proof. I’m suprised they can get away with it.<<
More specifically, it’s barratry. A type of extortion where you abuse the legal system instead of breaking knee caps.
Scox can’t get away with it, and scox knows it, which is why this “linux license” thing will never happen. But that is not the point anyway. Scox stock price jumped 15% on this bogus news. The stock price is up 600% since this silliness started, and scox insiders are selling like mad, get it?
From the article: >>The program will be announced “within the next month or so,” <<
Last December, scox said they were “planing” a linux licensing programing. Then, about a month ago, scox said they would announce such a plan in July. July is more than half-way over, everybody is wondering what is going on. Now scox is saying they will have a plan “within a month or so.” Or so?
Could it be that scox can not legally able to implement such a plan, and scox knows it? In two months will scox call another such teleconference to anounce their big plan, only to say once again: “we’re working on some details to try and create some kind of a licensing program for Linux users to be able to run Linux legally.”
Some details? Haven’t they been working on “some details” since December? How complicated could it be.
Yet another SCOX bluff? Remember scox said they would stop ibm from selling AIX, they haven’t. Scox said they would audit AIX users, they haven’t. Scox said they would sue Linux Trovald, they haven’t.
But all these threats have caused the stock price to go up and up and up. CA-CHING!!
>>In my country they are not even allowed to *allege* that Linux violates IP and they want my money..?! Someone pass me their e-mail address so I can laugh at them…<<
Is your country Germany? That is scox where totally *slammed* by a linux advocacy group called linuxtag. Scox was told to either show some evidence, or stop making claims. Scox went away – big time. Scox web-sites in Germany have been shut down. Germany was scox’s second biggest market.
Interestingly enough, this *huge* story was entirely ignored by the tech-pop-media here in the USA (zdnet ect).
…Several motorist have been arresteed on the autoban for driving a certain model of mercedes benz cars. It would appear these cars contain some component not identified, which violates SCO’s IP.
The statement from SCO said, “We were suspicious of the rate at which the cars reached 100 km/h. We knew they could not have gone that fast without infringing our IP.”
SCO also provided a solution for the hapless consumers who bought the vehicles. “We want to license the software used in the cars. So we shall charge a royalty of 1 dollar per thousand kilometers trravelled. If consumers do not pay these royalties, they shall be liable for the IP stolen. We will accuse them of stealing our code and putting it in their cars.”
SCO was planning to run a “License” campaign similar to a “Switch” campaign run by another Hardware/Software company Apple. The ads will show people sleeping better at night after licensing their cars. Those who do not will be depicted having nightmares and shouting out “No please Boies, please don’t sue me”
Full story :
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/06/04/HNscosite_1.html
If SCO did ends up winning the case (I think they’re wrong), then I know a whole bunch of people that use linux now, will leave, including me. Because of what SCO has done, I’d rather ues Windows, or just go to the mac platform, they have an awsome OS that I won’t have to worry about SCO bombing.
//”There is no such thing as a communist state”
Off topic, but…Cuba, North Korea, and the People’s Republic of China–where the only legal parties are the Communist Party–aren’t communist states? Perhaps instead of insulting people somebody should take a World Politics class next semester.//
Um… Maybe instead of insulting people’s education in comparison to your one class of World Politics, you should pause and say something nicer.
It is generally considered that Communism as a political and social unit and template for government was born in 1847, when Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels wrote The Communist Manifesto, in direct response to the situation of the working class and the divisions which became apparent between classes and exacerbated by the work ethic and conditions during the British industrial revolution. The Manifesto was, essentially a blueprint for how the working classes might revolt and reform the government to their benefit, under the assumption from Marx and Engels, that the current situation was indeed untenable.
However, the predicted revolt never came to pass in Britain, but the Manifesto was taken to varying degrees ultimately by Lenin, Mao and others. Ultimately, however, Marx’s Communism never truly found easy root, simply because it was designed around the British society and geography. It is hard to implement when you have massive distance between resources and social centres, for example, which blighted the USSR, with the natural resources and industry concentrated away from the East where the majority of the population resided, which broke the economics.
Moreover, USSR Communism wasn’t truly Communism to start with, if we take (and most people do) Marx’s Communism as a common root and the desired implementation. The PRC, N. Korea and the USSR all had their own slightly different derivatives, which historians and political scientists will generally rename and regard as distinct philosophies and objectives. The USSR had Leninism (heavily revised to Stalinism, etc.), the PRC had Maoism (there were necessary changes to adapt Western political aspects to Confusionist society, now tending in different directions entirely). North Korea, in fact, can be seen to have a more Leninist derivative of Communism than even the USSR after Stalin came to power and changed the situation there.
All in all, CooCooCaChoo is quite right, in that there exist no truly Marx-Communist regimes in the world anymore, only derivatives, while even those are migrating towards a hybrid with Capitalist models.
The end.
Hey, I was only kidding
You know the zeal of some people who stress everything Linux must be prefixed GNU/Linux 
But seriously though. Who uses/would want to use SCO’s libraries?
If you don’t need or want to use the libraries, then you don’t have to worry about anything.
Because of what SCO has done, I’d rather ues Windows, or just go to the mac platform, they have an awsome OS that I won’t have to worry about SCO bombing.
And why not? Remember that Apple used parts of *BSD. What if SCO find “stolen code” in *BSD code? If SCO can spread FUD for Linux, they can do it for any open-source project…
“There is no such thing as a communist state”
Off topic, but…Cuba, North Korea, and the People’s Republic of China–where the only legal parties are the Communist Party–aren’t communist states? Perhaps instead of insulting people somebody should take a World Politics class next semester.
Read the communist manefesto them come back. Yes, I have read it, and yes, it was interesting even though I disagreed with a very large portion of it. Mao’s little red book has some interesting quotes in, however, again, I really don’t agree with the message behind it.
None of the countries you have mentioned have kept to the ideals of the communist manefesto hence the systems used in those countries tend to be called Maoism, Castroism or in North Korea, Stalinism.
If these were true communist states, the businesses would be owned not by individuals but goups of individuals who would decide collectively what to produced based on the needs of the collective rather than pure market forces being the deciding factor. The owners and consumers (who are one) decide.
The rational used is this; in Ireland during the Potato famine, hundreds of thousands died whilst grain was being exported OUT of Ireland because the return was better than selling it domesticly . Under a true communist system, the desire for production would be based on peoples needs of the country and thus this grain would never had been exported but rather distributed to the areas where it was required.
How SCO can start charging for something they don’t own? Perhaps there’s SCO code in the kernel, but they still have to prove it. At worst, they would need to *win* their case before charging people. IMO, they’ve just found a way to extort some money from guillible people…
As Linus said in an interview, the issue isn’t over intellectual property but the contract between SCO and IBM.
Just think about it, if you wanted to stir some shit, which would provoke more discussion, “Intellectual Property Issues” or two companies have a spiff over a contract?
SCO is an attention seeking brat and will stop at nothing to get its own way. If that means spilling out half-truths, then they will do it.
When Darl Bride took over I had no issues with him enforcing their intellectual property rights within a reasonable fashion, however, what they have done is taken the more exibitionist approach so that they can get media attention.
While all this is happening we see their major shareholder Canopy Group lowering their stake in the company, most likely getting ready to dash for it when they can.
Sigh. Another victim of the American school system. There are, and pretty much never were, andy governments that closely modeled the communist ideal. What was implemented in the Soviet Union was Leninism, and later Stalinism. There were a couple of key differences between communism as it was envisioned and communism as it was implemented:
1) There was not supposed to be a forced revolution. In theory, communism was supposed to be the logical outcome of a system fed up with the abuses of the capitalist system. The revolution was supposed to just happen, not be forced like Lenin tried to do.
2) The omnipotent government was supposed to be temporary. It would exist for awhile to implement the structure of the revolution, and it would fade away once the communist society was in place.
There were a couple of reasons why communist societies didn’t turn out the way they were envisioned:
1) Capitalist societies wised up and moved to a more socialistic model. Anyone who thinks that even the US isn’t socialist is delusional. By today’s standards, the US is ruthlessly capitalistic, but by the original standards, the US is moderately socialistic. Pure capitalism died (good riddance) with the advent of social welfare programs, farming subsidies, corporate welfare systems, and monopoly controls. By adopting more socialistic practices, the capitalistic systems mitigated some of the biggest abuses that would have led to a revolution among the lower classes.
2) Communist governments fell victim to greed and power hunger, and abused their roles and their people. Instead of moving their societies towards an idealistic future, they exploited them for their own gain. They also fell prey to the “my penis is bigger than yours” syndrome that seems to afflict governments in less developed countries.
3) Marx’s theoretical model showed key flaws. First, he assumed that technology would advance to the point (thanks to capitalism, which he considered a requisite precursor to communism) where there would be enough resources to keep everybody at a high standard of living. He envisioned robots who did all the physical labor, so all jobs were white-collar jobs. He saw a future in which people only worked four or five hours a day, and could spend the rest of their time how they pleased. Perhaps this is an artifact of forcing the revolution before technology was ready for it, or perhaps it was merely optimistic thinking. Whatever the reason, this prequisite was clearly missing in the countries in which communism was implemented, and is the reasonf or the atrocious quality of life that is associated with communism. Also Marx overestimated the ability of financial models to plan economies in a logical and scientific manner.
Beyond that, most present communist countries aren’t even communist as it was implemented, much less as it was conceived. China, for example, is well on its way towards moving to a free market model for its economy, while (unfortunately) retaining a communistic model for its social structure.
I don’t think those who posted in support of the “there never has been a communist government” argument understand the concept of “common usage.” Yes, I have read the Communist Manifesto…as well as other exerpts from Marx, Friedrich Engels, and others…and I understand that Marxism never materialized. However, the governments I mentioned still call themselves “communist” or “socialist” states, and most of the world’s press refers to them as “communist.” Therefore, get off your damned high horses and quit insulting Americans for being Americans.
Isn’t it odd that people love to insult the American educational system, and yet we are getting more and more foreigners coming here to pay for an education rather than staying in their own countries and getting one for free (or nearly free)? Hmmmm….
Now, back to the subject at hand….
Wrawrat wrote:
IMO, they’ve just found a way to extort some money from
guillible people…
—-
Hmm, I don’t see them getting any money from this, seeing as
most people using Linux tend to be a bit more aware of things
like this, reading sites like this and The Register among
others.
Of course there are exceptions, but SCO won’t make any money
of such a small number.
I agree that people should stop insulting americans for being americans (that’s stupid and childish), but…
Isn’t it odd that people love to insult the American educational system, and yet we are getting more and more foreigners coming here to pay for an education rather than staying in their own countries and getting one for free (or nearly free)?
AFAIK, the problem is with the public education system, i.e. primary & high school. The majority of foreigners moving to the States for education are entering the university. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware of any university in the world where you can get education for free.
Well, some companies could try to play safe and pay them. Then again, I guess most of them would rather move to Windows or any commercial product with tech support than staying with Linux with almost non-existant support. Yes, I know that the community is vast and knowledgable, but it isn’t the same thing as getting personal phone support. I hope you understand what I mean.
AFAIK, the problem is with the public education system, i.e. primary & high school. The majority of foreigners moving to the States for education are entering the university. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware of any university in the world where you can get education for free.
1) In New Zealand, up until the end of Secondary School, public education is free. New Zealand used to have free university, however, due to the cost and the tax burden, they decided it would be better instead for the student to pay a token amount. For a liberal arts degree it normally works out to be around NZ$3500-NZ$3800 per year.
2) The issue isn’t the university but from the age of 5 up ignorance is taught as if it were to be some thing to be proud of.
Why is it that the average American fails to understand anything that is external to the United States? Why is it when terrorism occurs no one in the United States knows their own governments foreign policy? Why is it when a country thinks contra to the United States foreign policy they’re screamed at and called “anti-American” and “terrorists”?
I think all this SCO stuff is MS FUD. Obviously they are funneling money to SCO in the form of a “license” for whatever they think they own. SCO hasn’t done anything yet. All they are doing is writing letters and press releases. I wonder if this coincides with some Microsoft upgrade cycle.
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware of any university in the world where you can get education for free.”
Offtopic But:
When I was a University student in Britain in the 1970’s the state not only paid your tuition fees but also paid you a “maintenence grant” being a universal scholarhip awarded to all British students accepted by a University. It was intended to provide sufficient money for your support while studying. It was means tested on the basis of your family income but students deemed to be independant (as I was) automatically got the full grant. No “home” student paid tuition fees
This is no longer the case, but it is quite likely that some counties currently have a similar system.
Besides of a small administration-fee (about $200/year) German Universities are generally free also for foreigners…
Many other European countries grant their students free higher education!
I’m American an I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m called a communist, a radical, and even anti-american by the “typical” American. To be honest I think the United States is quite backwards in some areas but the people here defend it to the death without ever considering the alternatives. It’s this disturbing sense of “divine right” (or something nearly equivalent) that sickens me the most.
My point is that not everyone in the US believes all the crap they learn in school. Some of us have a penchant for questioning authority and finding out the real truth. It’s the same as in most other countries, some to a greater extent, some to a lesser extent. Nationalism and pride are more than just “American” problems and not every American is a self-centered, xenophobic, rambling idiot just because our President is.
I do believe state schools in California are free. I think this is the case for a couple of other states too.
Outside of the US, Finland’s universities are free also.
I’m wasn’t insulting Americans for being Americans. I like Americans. I am an American. I was insulting the American educational system, specifically the K-12 system. The US K-12 system is phenomenally bad. From my experience (I’ve been going to American schools since Kindergarten) kids are taught about Native Americans for several grades, but often never have a mandatory course in European history! Geography classes are pretty much non-existant, and you can manage to get out of high school without learning anything more than Algebra. In international tests, American K-12 students barely come out a head of students in poor African countries like Ethiopia!
However, for those who make it that far, the US has some of the best universities in the world. That’s the real reason people come over here to get an education. That’s also the reason why America manages to stay ahead of the rest of the world in technology and industry. However, good universities often have to deal with un-doing the major brain-damage the K-12 system inflicts on students.
actually it’s very free here in sweden and you get a grant for staying afloat whilst studying and another part as a loan.
Oh and as far as these countries you mentioned calling themselves communist, i’ve yet too see any country aside from china mentioning that word. (china’s communist party, a good ol’ boys club much as the oil bussiness is in the us.)
on topic:
Someone needs to initiate a class action suit before this gets out of hand, really though, we can sit here and think oh this is nothing but public perception will be something else..
It was not code but trademark that Apple Computer was being sued by The Open Group for using the term Unix in conjunction with its Mac OS X operating system without a license. So they were picking fights with all.
Yeah, some non-US universities are still free or at least heavily sublidized, though that certainly is changing. Education–especially in a world that is increasingly centering around expensive electronics (computers, microscopes, aircraft…you name it)–is not the paper-based, inexpensive experience it used to be. And no, California universities are not free. See, they (at least until recently) had no tuition for state residents, but the fees were very high. I think it was still less than most other state university systems would charge their resident students, but it wasn’t free by any means. That’s a pretty common misconception.
And I absolutely must disagree with the assessment of the American K-12 educational system. I studied in Germany for a while, where I met many people from around the world (University of Stuttgart), including lots of Germans, of course. They often knew less German history than I did–and I never, ever studied German history (I was studying German language and theoretical linguistics). Many other world students, too, were surprised when my American friend and I would bring something up about non-US history–they themselves often did not know it.
This idea that American public school students are behind other students is usually generated from/supported by the standardized testings done with international students from time to time. The American students usually score somewhere in the middle of the pack (it varies, of course). There is, however, a problem with this scenario: while the vast majority of non-US pre-univeristy education is tracked/tiered (or whatever you want to call it), and only the “upper” students (who are expected to go on to universities) are tested, in the US there is no solid “tracking” system and all students are tested. Case in point: in Germany, students go on to either Hochschule, which is not meant for those continuing on to universities, or to Gymnasium, which is a university prepping school (well, of sorts). Only the Gymnasium students, who comprise (as of about a decade ago) around 60% of the students, are tested. This is, therefore, an unfair comparison as the playing field is unfair.
In Sweden ALL students are tested. Your thesis don’t hold.
“Why is it when a country thinks contra to the United States foreign policy they’re screamed at and called “anti-American” and “terrorists”?”
Whoa! What you’re talking about is a small number of zeallous, conservative politicians and their followers (and not all Republicans [conservatives] have been behind this, especially of late). The media has a field day with this kind of thing–the more outrageous it is, the more fun they have. The vast majority of Americans I know and have heard are outraged at this kind of crap. There was a recent article in which it was reported that American tourism to France is way down (around 20%, I believe). However, when they dug around, the discovered that it was not because these people had any sort of disdain for the French; instead, they were afraid the French would not welcome them because of the Bush administration’s childish bahavior towards France. This is according to the travel agencies. No, this is not typical of the US (look back on recent administrations)–and, as far as I’ve experienced, it’s not typical of any other counrty, either.
If SCO thinks they can License Linux to companies and individuals, they are sadly mistaken. There is nothing that gives them the right to do so at this moment and all that can possibly come from this is their ass being slapped with a law suit from our pal Linus.
This is by far the most outrageous and wrong move SCO has made since this lawsuit first started. I mean there is always corporate FUD, mud slinging, and lawsuits. That is a certain and should be expected, but now SCO is moving in to license Linux without having the rights or the position to do so is indeed a crime. Honestly it’s scum like this that makes American industry look so trashy and greedy. I have nothing against America or American Industry, but with all that money you think you would have a way of making sure crap like this never happens.
“they don’t have any scruples to fire americans and employ indians”
Why is employing Indians to be considered an unscrupulous act ? ANY logical sensible reason why ???? Or is it just your unbridled nationalism speaking ? American – Good, Indian – bad.
It’s time someone dragged you self-righteous Scumericans out of your white ivory towers, kicking and screaming.
You fvcks lost 3000 people in WTC and you cried so much, while your $3 billion dollar aid to Pakistan has armed the Pakistani terrorists who have killed 60,000 Indians in Kashmir.
Go fuck your superiority complex.
“they don’t have any scruples to fire americans and employ indians”
Why is employing Indians to be considered an unscrupulous act ? ANY logical sensible reason why ???? Or is it just your unbridled nationalism speaking ? American – Good, Indian – bad.
It’s time someone dragged you self-righteous Scumericans out of your white ivory towers, kicking and screaming.
You fvcks lost 3000 people in WTC and you cried so much, while your $3 billion dollar aid to Pakistan has armed the Pakistani terrorists who have killed 60,000 Indians in Kashmir.
Go fuck your superiority complex.
My assesment of the K-12 educational system is from first hand experience. Where I went to school (a rich suburb of DC, hardly a place that would show the system in a poor light) we learned phenomenally little about anything. Most of elementary school was spent reviewing the same basic concepts of mathematics over and over, and no important* history was taught until high school. Even then, if one wanted a more than cursory introduction to European history, one had to take an elective class. My experience with how much most people know about history and geography (the irrational hatred of anything that even reminds them of communism) bears out my personal experience.
PS> I refer to European history as “important” history not because I think Europeans are more important than others (I’m Asian myself) but because the US is a Western country, and European history more than anything else has influenced its culture.
Pitty I am not going to ebjoy that licensing program,
since I have no fear anyway.
I simply do not seem to be afraid of Daryl Young Bride
and Chris Dienstag.
DG
Sorry for my ignorance on free universities.
Primary & high school is free here, but not university. Moreover, our school system is a bit different here in Quebec as we have another school between high school and university (cégep). That one isn’t free either, although it’s far from being expensive as universities. I paid ~1000$ per year at the cegep. That’s not bad.
These guys were asked to put up or shut-up in Germany and guess what they !? They shut the hell up ! Not only that they also closed their website and signed a letter saying that they will stop making accusations against Linux. This is a big deal because Germany is their second biggest market after the U.S. of course. I think it’s safe to say that IBM can and will be doing the same after this non-sense.
Even if there is SCO code in Linux this attempt to Proprietarily license ALL of the Linux code is a definite violation of the GNU General Public License (GPL). An IMMEDIATE COUNTERSUIT should now be considered should any such “Linux Licensing” plan be presented by SCO for the GPL violation. We should also look into a CRIMINAL COMPLAINT with the SEC for using our OS as a part of a probable “pump ‘n’ dump” stock fraud scheme on the part of SCO. Their “golden parachute” tactics should only land them in JAIL or BANKRUPTCY!!!
Not all americans are like this guy, okay. Some people want to stick their heads in the sand when it comes to a global economy because it means there actually is competition for jobs, but not many people are like that. You are stereotyping americans as a whole by only the loud mouthed uneducated ranters. Please don’t. That would be like assuming an entire class is bad by the actions of the class clown.
– A (usually) closed mouth educated american
I agree, however, it is rather disappointing that such a great nation is run by such a moron. Why on earth would a population vote in a person with a lower IQ than the national average and a dodgy business past surrounding insider trading, running businesses poorly and then into the ground, worse still the idiot alines himself with Billy Grahams son, the biggest anti-Islam biggot that ever walked on gods green earth.
He then turns around, after standing sholder to sholder with this bigot claiming that the war against terror isn’t an anti-Islam campaign. How the average arab in the middle east honestly believe that when the president alines himself with such a bigot.
Worse still, look at the loonie right wing christian fundamentalists who aline themselves with the zealot Jewish Orthodox lobby and actually FUND the settlements.
The US has a lot of problems but unfortunately the general populous would rather live in a state of ignorance and blind faith rather than being critical of themselves. Just look in the UK and the big dust storm in parliament. When is the US going to have a REAL debate in the congress rather than people getting up and seeing how much of a sycophant they can be in a space of 5 minutes.
…ways to shut these suckers up. They are not untouchable.
1. GPL violation: no need to mention. We all know.
2. Legal threat/extortion to Linux users: Is SCO’s move so far 100% clean and legit?
– Is it legal to demand consumers to pay for the license of a product that has been freely re/distributed and which ownership is yet to be acknowledged by the court?
– Is it legal for SCO to directly/indirectly threat (notify) Linux users that not complying their demand will result in potential litigation?
3. Shady stock trading: Have McBride, Sontag and other SCO insiders and McNealy of Sun taken advantage of lawsuits announcement to make substantial profit from sales of their shares?
Questionable legality of their actions should be examined by Feds.
Considering the course of their action so far, SCO has been taking full advantages of imperfection of US legal system. If you still say “what if they are right,” you may need to go see a doctor. What SCO has done is morally wrong by 100% from everyone’s eye.
IBM’s Affirmative Defenses: Take That!
http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/2003/07/17.html
There’s very little more to be added.
He wants to ask Linux people to pay for a licence ?
Logic is simple : have him first prove they actually
have rights over it. Point.
Nothing else to say. No proof, nothing.
Even as I run BSD on all my machines, this annoying
SCO over Linux people is really getting me angry now.
Penguins might strike first, but they won’t escape
our spikes and flames !
Is this the Jolly Joker company, isn’t it???!!! Now let me get this straight: the GPL will be replaced with SCO licence…
HAHAHAHAHA
This is FUD!!! Flooding the media with FUD is insane, they burry themselves in deep sh*t! Someone should ban them, or they should flood in the flood channel, or where every other looser dies in pain…
“You fvcks lost 3000 people in WTC and you cried so much, while your $3 billion dollar aid to Pakistan has armed the Pakistani terrorists who have killed 60,000 Indians in Kashmir.”
Are they Indians? Or Pakis? What do they really consider themselves? Who kills more Kashmiris? The Indians or Pakis?
I’d for once like to see ONE unbiased source on that.
If your government for once actually held democratic (like they were suppose to) elections in the region we might find out.
Furthermore, it always amuses me about how much the Indians cry about the US entering defense contracts with the Pakis when you yourself are signing mutual defense contracts with the IRANIANS and training them. So go fvck yourselves.
You people are funny.
Good for my afternoon laugh, thanks!
– Kelson
I’m called a communist, a radical, and even anti-american by the “typical” American. To be honest I think the United States is quite backwards in some areas but the people here defend it to the death without ever considering the alternatives. It’s this disturbing sense of “divine right” (or something nearly equivalent) that sickens me the most.
Actually, based on your comments, you are the one suffering from “divine right”.
Most Americans appreciate what it is that America offers us. And they respect what it took to make things this way. We look around the rest of the world, and see the poor, tragic conditions, and are thankful that we were blessed to be born into this particular society, and therefore as with the blood of our ancestors we will defend it as well.
Your kind, however, takes the American lifestyle completely for granted, and has that sense of entitlement (like to other people’s intellectual property), or “divine right” as you so eloquently put it yourself. Didn’t you also say, “sickening”?
it is rather disappointing that such a great nation is run by such a moron
This isn’t a political board, so take it elsewhere. Besides, the President is a trained fighter pilot with a masters from Harvard. And here you are, internet message board jockey. LMAO.
Tomorrow’s SCO conference call will be nothing more than a publicity stunt. More ‘huff&puff’ with no evidence, no proof and a huge degree of largese. This “Linux License” ploy is nothing more that yet another pile of FUD slung by SCO at the community and has nothing to do with the SCO vs. IBM suit – which they have been quiet about lately. The call will be another avenue for the SCO insiders to pump their stock price.
Mr. Boies is to be on the call – which is interesting, considering that on Friday, a Florida BAR grievance comittee found ‘probable’ cause that Mr. Boies violated rules of conduct. In this http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/auto/epaper/editions… , it’s interesting to see that IBM is supposedly one of his clientele. Another conflict of interest?
“However, for those who make it that far, the US has some of the best universities in the world. That’s the real reason people come over here to get an education…”
> I partly agree. Germany and Switzerland have got a much superior apprenticeship system than the US. The US have got some fantastic scientists, but lack of highly qualyfied trades people. See who won most medals at the recent trades world championship in Switzerland ….
That’s also the reason why America manages to stay ahead of the rest of the world in technology and industry.
> In some areas yes, in many others not.
I don’t mean to offend you, BTW.
OOPS …. what has my previous comment got to do w/- SCO?
Nothing, I suppose ….. sorry for that
above say it all!
SUCH A BIG PHAG!
I think SCO just testing the water. If the world respond seem to like their announcement, they will publish and implement the plan, if not they will just create another breaking news so that most of us will forget about the current announcement.
Let wait and see how the KING OF FUD behave!!!