The release of the beta version of Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition 1.5 (J2SE 1.5) is just around the corner. A recent session at the 2003 JavaOne Conference provides a roadmap.
Roadmap for Java 2 (J2SE) 1.4.2 and 1.5
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Sounds good to me, looks like Sun’s listening to developers and improving Java’s traditional weaknesses.
You have to hand it to Sun, they really are working to improve Java’s performance (and acceptance) on the desktop. Perhaps with 1.4.2 and then 1.5, we will see more desktop applications built with Java.
that Mono article got more of a response regarding Java than the actual Java article?
I have nothing but good things to say about this release. The focus on speedup is noticeable.
yes java is getting better
i still have performance issues with java on many computer. speed is still noticibly slower than native applications even on 2.4GHz P4. application start-up time is slow, up to 10 times slower than native application. visualstudio.net loads in 3 seconds. eclipse loads in 15 seconds with beta jre 1.4.2. netbeans loads in 30 seconds. before u get smart yes I have DMA enabled on hard drives. this is brand new dell system precision workstation 4600.
java zealots like to lie and say times aren’t this bad. the problem is when u write a java application and it gets big it takes even longer to load. sure big native applications load slowly too (slowly being 3 seconds, not 30 seconds!)
the big secret is .NET global assembly cache behavior. save native code after compiling it. it’s that easy. why java does not do this I cannot say. i think public acceptance of .net application is much better, because of using native widgets.
java zealots say that portability is a good trade for not using widgets. this is not smart thinking. windows runs on 99% of desktop computers. are you willing to trade 1% userbase for your program being ugly and slow? i am not.
my computer programs will either be native or .net and yes I am locked into microsoft but is java not locked into sun? i don’t see any difference.
All you have to do now to get a “native” look/feel is the following:
try {
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookAndFeelClassName());
} catch (Exception e) { }
I am amazed at the speed of startup now with java 1.4.2 – WOW!
This will cause for a happy weekend
How exactly are you locked in to Sun by using Java? I can easily run IBM (for instance) runtime with an app server from someone else and not have to worry about Sun. I don’t get your point.
As to ugly and slow you’re wrong. For the examples you point out that take long I can point out others that don’t. Jeez….Eclipse takes about that long on my p3-500 laptop to load. I’m not sure why it would take the same amount of time on your brand-spanking new Dell.
I won’t claim that Java is faster than native at start nor will I claim that its the same speed as native running. Then again neither is .NET. I agree on keeping the compiled code around. AFAIK Apple does that with their Java and gave the code to Sun. Hopefully it shows up in 1.5.
Here is areason to install the latest beta version of Mozilla 1.4 – Itonly works with the Beta stage Java, according to release notes of Mozilla.
Hope speed of JIT improves.
Yes, Mono is getting more hype, but that’s a .Net clone 😉
I just downloaded JRE 1.4.2.Guess what? You cannot remove
WebStart anymore. So much for choise to the user.And yet
they complain about Microsoft.
<quote>my computer programs will either be native or .net and yes I am locked into microsoft but is java not locked into sun? i don’t see any difference.</quote>
You don’t see a difference? Ok..make a really good app on C#. Now take that application to BSD. What? You can’t? Ok then take it to OSX. What? You can’t? Ok an easy one. Take that application to Linux. What? You can’t run it there either?
Java can.
<quote>I just downloaded JRE 1.4.2.Guess what? You cannot remove WebStart anymore. So much for choise to the user.And yet they complain about Microsoft.</quote>
Wow. Have you ever tried removing Outlook Express before the latest service packs? Guess what. You couldn’t.
And if you READ the info you would find this:
“Beginning with version 1.2, Java Web Start will be bundled with J2SE and will no longer be a separate download.”
RTFM dude.
i still have performance issues with java on many computer. speed is still noticibly slower than native applications even on 2.4GHz P4. application start-up time is slow, up to 10 times slower than native application. visualstudio.net loads in 3 seconds. eclipse loads in 15 seconds with beta jre 1.4.2. netbeans loads in 30 seconds. before u get smart yes I have DMA enabled on hard drives. this is brand new dell system precision workstation 4600.
Of course VS.net will load faster, it is a friggin native application. If you ask me, if Microsoft can’t produce an IDE using the .net framework and none of their products are written purely using the framework one really has to ask, “is it just another scripting language”?
As for Java, I am running Windows 2000 Advanced Server here, 768MB RAM, Pentium III and sure, Java doesn’t set the world alight, however, the performance is acceptable and I don’t have any problems with Netbeans responsiveness.
java zealots like to lie and say times aren’t this bad. the problem is when u write a java application and it gets big it takes even longer to load. sure big native applications load slowly too (slowly being 3 seconds, not 30 seconds!)
obviously you know jack-squat about application development. Again, there is nothing with with Netbeans or Eclipse and as for the typical pro-Microsoft zealotry, why on earth are you constantly shutting down and reloading Netbeans or Eclipse all the time? When I used to work, I had a rather slow machine, however, instead of sitting in front of the machine waiting, I would do something else. Maybe you need to use your time more wisely.
the big secret is .NET global assembly cache behavior. save native code after compiling it. it’s that easy. why java does not do this I cannot say. i think public acceptance of .net application is much better, because of using native widgets.
And when that global assembly gets chock-a-block full of crap, feel the pleasure of slowness. As for widgets, get a bloody life. People don’t give a shit about widgets, most people want application that work the first time and that they can get their work done fast and efficiently. Widgets have NOTHING to do with the adoption of a particular framework.
my computer programs will either be native or .net and yes I am locked into microsoft but is java not locked into sun? i don’t see any difference.
How is using Java being locked into SUN? the whole java specification is community driven NOT sun driven. If sun wants to add a feature, they have to join the line like EVERYONE ELSE and submit their specification to the Java Review panel, and yes, they have had things thrown back to them and not added to the specification. Compare than to Microsoft who has opened a small, microscopic piece of their overall framework and somehow claim that they’re “openstandards promoters”. If they 100% opened up their whole framework, dropped all patents AND allowed a community development to take place, THEN I would have not quarms with .NET.
“java zealots say that portability is a good trade for not using widgets.”
If you mean using native widgets with Java instead of using Swing, you can do this with either SWT or wxWindows (http://www.wx4j.org/).
As for portability, yes for me that’s an important issue. Being able to run my Java programs on Win, Lin and Mac is a huge advantage.
Of course VS.net will load faster, it is a friggin native application. If you ask me, if Microsoft can’t produce an IDE using the .net framework and none of their products are written purely using the framework one really has to ask, “is it just another scripting language”?
VS NET 2003 is already partialy written using NET already. And really more and more MS application in future will be(MS said it more times on interviews). But to know this you should be a bit more open minded and not anti-MS zealot.
How is using Java being locked into SUN? the whole java specification is community driven NOT sun bla bla bla FUD
you are fooling yourself. actually ECMA standarization of .NET(+C# + rest) is much better and more “free” than any Java ever was.
<quote>you are fooling yourself. actually ECMA standarization of .NET(+C# + rest) is much better and more “free” than any Java ever was.</quote>
Please tell you do NOT really believe that? MS didn’t ECMA the whole shebang. Just enough so THEY can say “see we are more open than Java”. Worked on you didn’t it. *sigh*
The JCP is a great process that is getting MORE open all the time. With MS you get MS deciding what goes in or doesn’t. With the JCP you have industry input.
” actually ECMA standarization of .NET(+C# + rest) is much better and more “free” than any Java ever was.”
ty jsi blby nebo ne? what is the relation btw being “free” and being part of a standards body? btw. .net is not under ECMA. only parts of it is, such as c#, and it means basically nothing. besides it is out of context. do you suggest c# is not driven by MS since it is part of ECMA?
I am not suggesting anything(how can even I?) but I claim c# is developed by MS(and what’s wrong with that) but it’s also an ECMA standard(so you can add/criticize/etc.).
Free doesn’t means it’s cheap or something, I ment Free as in Open Source _Free_ software. And it means a lot more. And btw, Java been criticized for beeing Sun locked for what? 6 years? I think even more. So don’t BS here…
ty jsi blby nebo ne? what is the relation btw being “free” and being part of a standards body? btw. .net is not under ECMA. only parts of it is, such as c#, and it means basically nothing. besides it is out of context. do you suggest c# is not driven by MS since it is part of ECMA?
The bigger question is whether Microsoft will submit more C# specifications as they update the language. Sure, they’ve submitted to the ECMA a microscopic piece of dot-net and C#, if they add features to C# will they submit those changes back?
As for the Java Community process, SUN has ONE vote on the JCP board, that is it. SUN’s JVM is an IMPLEMENTATION of the specification which has been decided on by the JCP, it is NOT THE JAVA! read and repeat juraj! just because SUN makes a Java implementation DOESN’T make it the only one out there.
VS NET 2003 is already partialy written using NET already. And really more and more MS application in future will be(MS said it more times on interviews). But to know this you should be a bit more open minded and not anti-MS zealot.
You really are a screw ball. I am running Windows 2000 Advanced Server and you have the nerve to call me “anti-Microsoft”. Disconnect from the internet and with the money you save, buy a clue.
As for VS NET 2003 being “partially” written using .NET, here is a hint sunshine, 1/100 doesn’t count for jack squat, you are either 100% behind your technology or you’re not, and to me, Microsoft IS NOT 100% behind it. Heck, just look at Windows 2003 for Itanium and the complete lack of a working .NET implementation. Atleast with SUN there is a beta release, Microsoft hasn’t even gotten to that stage. How pathetic is that? they are promoting dot-net and Windows 2003 for the data centre yet they don’t have their flag ship product on the future datacentre CPU architecture.
> You have to hand it to Sun, they really are working to
> improve Java’s performance (and acceptance) on the desktop.
> Perhaps with 1.4.2 and then 1.5, we will see more desktop
> applications built with Java.
You betcha. I downloaded J2SDK 1.4.2 thinking “oh well, more bugfixes, security fixes. etc… better install this new release on the clients machines just to keep everyone happy. OMG, J2SDK Rocks!
I knew Sun had plans to make Java snappier but I had no idea that they were able to do it this quickly. In an app for one client, I have a dialog with 30+ controls that exceeds 1,500 lines and can take 1-2 seconds to render on an Athlon 1500XP.
With J2SDK 1.4.2 it takes less than half a second. I haven’t even recompiled it to squeeze any extra optimisation out. Guess I’ll go and do it now. Cheers to Sun, one fine release.
GTK theming is nice too
lets hope that a Java for NPTL will be arriving soon. From what I have heard, the threainding is similar to what Solaris 9 uses, hence, they could possibly recycle code from the Solaris fork. Yes, I know you can run it under Redhat 9 using a switch, however, I found that applications kept locking up for no reason or in some cases, weird and eratic behavour. Solaris Download Manager was one application I noticed it in.
In terms of desktop, StarOffice 6.1 will have the ability to write macros in java so that security issues will be a thing of the past. It is great to see SUN finally push Java as an alternative to VB. Once people move from VB to Java, their minds will open up to the alternatives out there.
You really are a screw ball. I am running Windows 2000 Advanced Server and you have the nerve to call me “anti-Microsoft”. Disconnect from the internet and with the money you save, buy a clue.
How is running win2K server prevents you beeing anti-ms zealot? There are many kids out there running windows and which doesn’t know anything “but-click” so they have your anti-MS attitude.
Btw, I have 100Mbit inet connection for free(can’t save here much), I hope that doesn’t make you cry.
As for VS NET 2003 being “partially” written using .NET, here is a hint sunshine, 1/100 doesn’t count for jack squat, you are either 100% behind your technology or you’re not, blabla
Since when? MS isn’t linux where they can allow broke everything. They must retain lots of compatibility, so porting to .NET is like many other things in software industry = “process” and it takes time.
Maybe this is a nieve question. I am a student programmer in C++ and in Java. To me the biggest runtime difference between them makes the statement “Compile once, run anywhere” more relevant to me regarding Java. Granted, having a gigantic standard library helps the “Write once, run anywhere” argument, but I don’t really think that is what they mean.
So why is that the marketing argument?
Please no debates about the merits/demerits of Java v. C++, I am only asking about the marketing intelligence behind this.
You really are a screw ball. I am running Windows 2000 Advanced Server and you have the nerve to call me “anti-Microsoft”. Disconnect from the internet and with the money you save, buy a clue.
How is running win2K server prevents you beeing anti-ms zealot? There are many kids out there running windows and which doesn’t know anything “but-click” so they have your anti-MS attitude.
Unlike you, I talk the talk and willing to walk the talk. If I had some sort of veminous hatred of Microsoft I surely wouldn’t be running a Microsoft operating system. Also, if you had half a clue, you’d know that for 8 years I have been running various flavours of UNIX starting with Slackware Linux back in 1994/1995. Windows 2000 is my first Windows release I have ever run, hence, I come with no anti-Windows baggage. What did I run before UNIX? I owned an Amiga 500. What did I use before then? a BBC Micro w/ 32K memory and EEPROM expansion (most should remember than when you turned it on with these machines you had to type *.BASIC and then press enter to get to the main screen).
As for what I am going to do in the future? I am moving to a PowerMac with in the next couple of months. I have held back until they released a real ripper of a machine, which they have and unlike the Johnny cheapskates out there, I am willing to part with the cash when and if required.
Btw, I have 100Mbit inet connection for free(can’t save here much), I hope that doesn’t make you cry.
Unlike you, I don’t live in a “socialist paradise” where people are crucified with rates of tax creaping towards the stratosphere. Sure, I could use by University Internet, but why? it costs something like $25 for 50MB. No thank you, I’ll stick to my piddly 56K connection with unlimited downloads and time.
As for VS NET 2003 being “partially” written using .NET, here is a hint sunshine, 1/100 doesn’t count for jack squat, you are either 100% behind your technology or you’re not, blabla
Since when? MS isn’t linux where they can allow broke everything. They must retain lots of compatibility, so porting to .NET is like many other things in software industry = “process” and it takes time.
Since when has porting VS.NET to 100% .NET going to break compatibility? its a frigging IDE with the back end handled by CLI compilers which are in native code. The only thing the .NET version would have to do is make sure that it can read old project files. That is nothing spectacular.
Again you completely miss the point. The IDE should be a proof of concept. If you can write a large and complex application in .NET then it should give the developer the assurance that what they will be writing should have no problems. Again, what this tells me that since Microsoft has no proof of concept product out there, is simply demonstrates that .NET is not ready for major deployment until it reaches something close to 2.0-3.0.
CooCooCaChoo: I think .NET is ready for deployment now. It kicks some serious butt, and their mechanisms for backwards compatibility and interoperability with COM components is excellent. This is a major reason why things are not being re-written; they don’t have to be. I’m not sure what the Visual Studio team is doing, by my team (BizTalk 2004) is _not_ going to rewrite some humoungous code-base, especially when things are on a tight schedule and no one wants to break thousands of BVT tests because we’ve decided we need to rewrite the entire codebase. I can tell you that the push behind .NET is quite strong, because naturally it has many more features than traditional windows programming. Every _new_ thing we write is in .NET; expect the same from Visual Studio.
juraj: you’re a fricken idiot.
CooCooCaChoo: I think .NET is ready for deployment now. It kicks some serious butt, and their mechanisms for backwards compatibility and interoperability with COM components is excellent. This is a major reason why things are not being re-written; they don’t have to be. I’m not sure what the Visual Studio team is doing, by my team (BizTalk 2004) is _not_ going to rewrite some humoungous code-base, especially when things are on a tight schedule and no one wants to break thousands of BVT tests because we’ve decided we need to rewrite the entire codebase. I can tell you that the push behind .NET is quite strong, because naturally it has many more features than traditional windows programming. Every _new_ thing we write is in .NET; expect the same from Visual Studio.
Ok, nice to hear something “from the source”. I am not saying to chuck everything out. For example, why isn’t there a prototype .NET based mediaplayer? that would be a VERY useful addition so that the same release can be used over many devices and platforms.
Regarding .NET, it is a ashame that Microsoft released it under sharedsource. If they were truely committed the comments they said regarding BSD licensing, they would have put their money where their mouth is and released it under the BSD license.
If you compare SharedSource with the GPL, the GPL looks a heck of alot more liberal in terms of use. Oh, and what is the likely hood that Microsoft would grant a commercial license to the sharedsource implementation of .NET if they came from either *BSD, *NIX or Linux? I would say that is it highly bloody unlikely.
Regarding the schedule, why you have such a regid schedule? do any of your managers have a CLUE about software development? maybe they should be planted in a chair for 8hours straight and see how productive they can be because it appears to me that most managers think that they can swipe a wond and suddenly the code is complete without any bugs.
Unlike you, I don’t live in a “socialist paradise” where people are crucified with rates of tax creaping towards the stratosphere.
Oh no please don’t attack whole country just because I am not your type. And to prevent you from telling miseducated statements in future let me surprise you. Slovakia, country where I live, has 19% Flat Tax(I recommend google.com or economic books on this) which ranks it among the best market enviroment.
Sure, I could use by University Internet, but why? it costs something like $25 for 50MB.
So I don’t live in any sort of “socialist paradise”(just in case you ment it for real), University inet connection is free as a matter of fact that it is for educational and RD purposes mainly and afterall, whole country benefits from having educated people. No socialism here.
25$ per 50MB? I strongly doubt it. For 60$ you have flat-rate(no size nor time limit) private ADSL 768/128kbps connection in half of Europe, here in Slovakia you are limited to 4GB(thats 0.7$ for 50MB) for that.
Since when has porting VS.NET to 100% .NET going to break compatibility?
I wasn’t apparently talking about VS .NET only, too much nitpicking from your side.
Again you completely miss the point. The IDE should be a proof of concept. If you can write a large and complex application in .NET then it should give the developer the assurance that what they will be writing should have no problems.
Agree. Such as Eclispe or Netbeans projects on Java.
Again, what this tells me that since Microsoft has no proof of concept product out there, is simply demonstrates that .NET is not ready for major deployment until it reaches something close to 2.0-3.0.
Not really, .NET framework 1.1 is already ready for major deployment. .NET on Win2K3 server runs smooth you wouln’t even believe and writing in ASP.net with C# is true joy(a bit better than writing in Java). If you can accept the fact that you are limited only to MS platform, your 100% choice.
Eugenia: moderate our posts down not really much on topic here.
you’re a fricken idiot.
Although I don’t know what “fricken”(not really english) mean I know the second =) And what makes say such definitive statements? You can mail me, so you wouldn’t spam here.
To me the biggest runtime difference between them makes the statement “Compile once, run anywhere” more relevant to me regarding Java. Granted, having a gigantic standard library helps the “Write once, run anywhere” argument, but I don’t really think that is what they mean.
It means that compiled Java programs could be run on any platform that has appropriate JRE installed. Let’s say you develop using JRE 1.4, CD-database program(so you know what is on hundreds of your(pretty illegal 😉 mp3 CDs) and compiled without modification you can run it on Windows(9x up to win2K3), Apple(even on new Power Mac G5 when 64bit Panther OS would be ready), Solaris(OS from Sun) on Sparc platforms(completely different processor architecture), any branch of Linux distros and in near future any of *BSD clones. That is because you java code is executed upon Java virtual machine which is then executed upon appropriate OS and architecture.
With C++, you would need to recompile your C/C++ source codes for each of these platforms(gcc 3.3 handles most of them) and not rarelly you would be in a situation when you can’t compile your program under desired platform(e.g. GUI program developed mainly for Windows/Linux desired to run on Solaris). And compilation(or rather build) of that CD example application could range from 10 to 30 minutes and also probably brings more compatibility problems/pitfalls/.
Please no debates about the merits/demerits of Java v. C++, I am only asking about the marketing intelligence behind this.
C++ is of course better 🙂 But if you want to make money for living, Java is way to go nowadays, less work and more payment generally.
P.S. btw, why not ask a teacher?
So I don’t live in any sort of “socialist paradise”(just in case you ment it for real), University inet connection is free as a matter of fact that it is for educational and RD purposes mainly and afterall, whole country benefits from having educated people. No socialism here.
25$ per 50MB? I strongly doubt it. For 60$ you have flat-rate(no size nor time limit) private ADSL 768/128kbps connection in half of Europe, here in Slovakia you are limited to 4GB(thats 0.7$ for 50MB) for that.
That is the amount I may for internet traffic in Australia. If you had half a brain, you’d know.
Btw, here are the facts:
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/slovakia/slo_incom.asp
1.00 USD US Dollars = 36.3513 SKK Slovakia Koruny
Btw, learn economics, there is not only country in the world can sustain a flat tax of 19% yet provide ultra-cheap to free education, you are either bullshitting me or you have one heck of a GST on goods.
Btw, there there is Value Added Tax, Inheritance and Gift Tax, Real Estate Taxes. That doesn’t however take into account the number of income related taxes.
So, maybe you should look at your own countries taxes before making such stupid conclusions.
We in New Zealand DID have free education but the net result was having the top tax set at 66%. Now the government pays 75% of the cost and the student pays the rest via the student loan scheme.
Eugenia: moderate our posts down not really much on topic here.
juraj, if you had half a brain and weren’t such a one hit wonder of a troll, you’d know that Eugenia doesn’t not moderate. If you want to run off and whine like a sheila, whinge to Adam.
That is the amount I may for internet traffic in Australia. If you had half a brain, you’d know.
Not that I really care but give me URL on your ISP that sells 50MB for 25$.
Btw, learn economics, there is not only country in the world can sustain a flat tax of 19% yet provide ultra-cheap to free education, you are either bullshitting me or you have one heck of a GST on goods.
There is = Slovakia, and stop flaming me. The URL you gave has old facts, there is a new Law accepted already by Slovak ian Parliament so it will be(19% flat TAX) very soon valid for anybody.
And I know economics, studied it a bit I don’t think I am in need to refresh my information yet.
Btw, there there is Value Added Tax, Inheritance and Gift Tax, Real Estate Taxes. That doesn’t however take into account the number of income related taxes.
And what? These are in any countries, what’s your point? How old are you btw 🙂
So, maybe you should look at your own countries taxes before making such stupid conclusions.
I didn’t conclude one thing, and if it looked stupid(although I didn’t conclude it) it may only in your uneducated eyes.
juraj, if you had half a brain and weren’t such a one hit wonder of a troll, you’d know that Eugenia doesn’t not moderate. If you want to run off and whine like a sheila, whinge to Adam.
You know, not really breakthrough information, I don’t really care who moderates, I just saw such statements before so I though maybe she does. Won’t make me healthy or rich.