“Steve Jobs should take his own advice and sacrifice some profit margin in exchange for some market share. When Apple releases 970-based Macs, they may well be better than their PC counterparts, but Apple’s current price structure will drive the masses off to the competition.” Read the editorial at MacObserver. C|Net News.com says that Apple is preparing to introduce a new line of machines that are built around IBM’s speedy new PowerPC 970 chip, analysts say, a move that won’t erase the “gigahertz gap“, but should at least narrow the chasm. Elsewhere, Shake 3 is out.
The Bet: Apple, Faster, Better & Still a Loser
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
When people ask my advice on what type of computer to buy, I used to ask “What do you want to do with it?” And then try to help them either buy a Dell or a Macbased on their needs and price range.
After a few years of the people who bought Dells calling, complaining about ‘weird’ things happening, crashing, programs not working, red x and blue screens …. and that they hated computers.
I now know why I personally prefer the Apple Macintosh:
I use my Mac, it repeatedly does what i ask it to do, it does what I expect, I am happy. You get what you pay for.
BigMac,
You might want to take it as a bad sign when you even start to offend the other Macophiles with your half-thought out verbal diarrhea; like Ralf, and Debman, and Yomama.
It also doesn’t help that you seem to not know how to read, Ralf’s statement that clock speed doesn’t accurately represent overal system performance is not only true, but he was using it to defend others trying to compare Apple’s 2ghz offering to the P4 3.06 on clock speed alone.
Maybe if you spent less time stroking your ego during each post about how smart you think you are and how you knew so much you’d figure out that over 70% of what you’ve said on this page of the thread alone is complete trash. I understand you want to help defend the mac, but please leave that to the people who actually know what they are talking about
Java is not as platform indepenet as Java as it’s tightly integrated with the underlying desktop…
You can write programs that manipulate System Tray, Taskbar, and the rest of the Windows specific components and thus is not as platform independent as Java…
Although .NET is compiled to its own version of bytecode and is interpreted at runtime it does not mean it’s a platform indepenedent system as the API is not platform independent…
MONO is not the whole .NET… only some parts ported to Linux and it may be stopped soon as Microsoft is going to patent every single particle of .NET
And only a fraction of the companies are going to .NET. It’s estimated that at worst we should see a 50% / 50% marketshare between J2EE/.NET in USA… and more than 65% of Europian companies prefer J2EE. Many German offices have thrown out their Windows PCs out of their buildings and are going Linux… and there’s no place for .NET in Linux
Here in Asia most enterprises prefer J2EE too…
The problem is not if .NET outperforms J2EE or not… the problem is the monopolists who are standing behind .NET…
Don’t talk about things you know from hear-say only, whilst this is even related to W9x and not W2K/XP. On all my systems – and that is truly A LOT – I have never visited the registry for a single time for W2K since its release so to fixed a mess-up because it never encountered any in the first place. In fact, I don’t even know anybody who has “fiddled with the registry” and I/we do temper with systems. Skip your scary tales…
I have 3 computers. one is a laptop with XP, one is a g4 400MHz tower that runs just as well as my New laptop that is running at 1.1 GHz. and I enjoy both…I enjoy using the mac for my home videos and m digital pictures, but I use my laptop more becasue I am upstairs more than down stairs.
the thrid computer is a PC that I throw what ever OS on just to play with.
though I will say my next laptop will be a powerbook, unfortunatly it will not be bought for about 3 or 4 years.
mabye when I graduate from college.
Well thats why I said they should support an official MS release of .net and not MONO. I think the guys from MONO should have done their own virtual machine not a .NET nor a JAVA clone. But this is outside the scope of this discussion.
And I understand like all frameworks. For instance WXWindows if you are going to do system depenend functions like systray, it may not work on another one. But the compiler / framework should warn you of this.
Just saying that the tons of that will be done in .NET when longhorn is released with a .NET runtime build in. Will use .NET (With whatever lang) and they don’t use special windows functions. So they can just be downloaded and run on a OSX .NET runtime.
JAVA is to slow and how many people do you think do will download the JAVA runtime? Think about it if all those shareware appz will use .NET! JAVA is nothing on Windows these days for a home user. Maybe only the one website that needs it but thats it. .NET is a replacement for VS6 and a lot of people were / are VS6 with MFC and are now upgrading. Supporting .NET is a killa feature for Mac. MS will never release it for Linux. I think there is a BSD version. Not 100% sure but I read some press reports on the NET telling about it. You should know by now how MS feels about GPL software not open source but GPL (as it uses some BSD parts it self).
So a commercial and closed source OS like MACOSX could have .NET if it wanted too. Well if the Zealots were not acting like little devils and telling bullshit in the ears of APPLE descision makers.
My hunch is that the G5s, when they come, will be an across-the-board replacement of the PowerMac line, roughly matching the current price points. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1.8 GHz-based machine for about $2000. (I’d be surprised if there wasn’t at least one G5 under the $2000 mark.)
Like others, I’d love to see Apple do an “iBox”; I described this in my journal ( http://www.ranea.org/watts ), but the basic idea would be something comparable to the barebones shuttle PCs. A complete 1 GHz+ G4 system with RAM and hard drive for $599, and one with just case, power supply, motherboard and CPU for $399. Is it critical for Apple do to this? Honestly, I don’t think so. Unlike the more rabid Apple partisans, though, I don’t think it’s critical for them not to do it. Those who wanted to get premade “professional” systems or artsy boutique systems could still do it, and that could remain the purvey of the Apple Store.
But hey. The majority of people looking for decked-out 3GHz P4s, particularly at kit-bashing prices, are never going to buy a Mac. If the G5 came out at $999, there would be other reasons not to buy it: they can’t get a specific peripheral for it, they can’t install Plan 9 on a separate partition, they can’t play “Planetside” on it.
Bottom line, even though people won’t follow it: If your needs can’t be met by a Mac, don’t waste my time and yours justifying your choice based on price-to-performance arguments. If you bought a PS2 to play “Sly Cooper,” it doesn’t matter whether the XBox and GameCube are twice the price of the PS2 or half the price, what matters to you is that the PS2 has “Sly Cooper” and the other ones don’t. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you made an informed choice, unless you prove otherwise; give me the same benefit.
Figures: http://www.applelust.com/oped/amc/archives/amc030613.shtml and this: http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-05-05
I suppose people on this site do know better then those ‘analysts’ concerning the ‘MHz gap’.
Motorola makes all the G4s, IBM makes G3 and Power series. Please know what the hell you are talking about.
Why don’t Apple use the Power4 chip.
I’ve *HERD* that its a lot more
powerful thart the 970.
I agree with you that Java may not have any place on Windows these days as the UI is not as appealing as Windows but Apple’s Swing Look And Feel implementation is quite like native OS X and there are many Java apps available for OS X and many of them use the OS X dependent Java libraries
JAVA is to slow
Theoretically both Java and .NET are interpreted and Java could become as fast as .NET sooner or later. Apple has made Java Swing much smoother by rendering it with the assistance of the graphics accelerators and of course Microsoft knows all the internal details of Windows and that’s why .NET outperforms Java on Windows but could Mono outperform Java on Linux? Don’t think so…
and how many people do you think do will download the JAVA runtime?
This is a Windows-only problem as OS X has Java built-in as good as many Linux distros. Also Dell and HP have decided to ship the latest version of Java runtime on their PCs.
—
Although that I believe that .NET has some advantages compared to Java (that even some people don’t believe so) I dislike .NET as it is from the #1 monopolist in the world…
Because Power4 is much too expensive that even IBM only equips its +$100,000 with Power4 (as long as I know
So is the 970 a power4 with 512KB L2 cache istead of 16MB
on only one cpu core ?
A complete 1 GHz+ G4 system with RAM and hard drive for $599, and one with just case, power supply, motherboard and CPU for $399.
I don’t think Apple needs to do a complete system on the low end. Apple should come out with a $500 (or $499 for you marketing types) box – just the case. This will be a nice entry into the low-end niche.
But they don’t need to sell a monitor. They already have nice LCD’s. There is no need for a separate Apple branded CRT monitor. However, this would be a great opportunity for the Apple resellers to put together their own packages. It would allow them to differentiate on more than just extra RAM and maybe a free printer (which is all they do now).
from the first article
The pseudo-64 bit Opteron can run 32 bit x86 code directly, and it an run it’s own specially cranked up extensions for 64 bit… but not simultaneously. You an run your old software and Windows as is, but if you need to run a 64 bit x86 app, you have to shut own the machine and reboot into a 64 bit operating system, While in 64 bit mode you cannot run your old 32 bit x86 apps or operating systems. Oops!
Wow. This is huge. That makes the Opteron almost useless and nowhere near the same class as the 970. x86 compatability is the doom of a chip design.
Thanks for the link!
Wow. This is huge.
Yeah, this is huge, as in Dumb & Dumberer.
Read the specs first for the Opteron, it can run 32 and 64-bit apps simultaneously.
I read the entire article without finding a single noteworthy bit of information.
At the very bottom of the page, it says the author is an attorney. They should have put it right at the top, I would have saved some time…
The author suggests Apple should lower its prices. Does he have any idea, even a vague one, of Apple´s costs structure? Nope.
Read the specs first for the Opteron, it can run 32 and 64-bit apps simultaneously.
Well, perhaps you should email the author then so he can update his website and remove the erroneous information. His address is at the bottom.
I thought I’d get a Mac since Mac is Unix, but they do seem much more expensive for equivalent functionality. Since price is one of the big factors keeping me in PC-land, maybe someone can help me out. Here is an example:
Mac: From http://www.apple.com
$999.00
1GHz PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive
I went to envisioncs.net and tried to configure a similar system. This is what I got:
$660.00
Athlon XP 1900+ (1.60 GHz, 256k Cache)
128MB PC2100 DDR266
60BG Ultra ATA drive, Seagate
CDRW, 52x24x52
Yes, the system includes the non-specified things like 17″ Monitor, keyboard, optical mouse, Network card, SB sound, etc.
I went to that site and configured a similar system to the emac and it cost $940.00 (including OS and DVD)
The rumor sites have mysterious boxes going into Apple Stores and other sellers in the middle of the night, not to be opened until Monday. Well, whatever the case may be, i also think these will be available immediately and will replace the current line-up.
I also think Apple will keep the current price structure (basically), except perhaps for the ultra high end dual processor Mac. They can’t raise prices too much or nobody will buy them.
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/dec2002/newp… quote from site.
“…With the introduction of the PowerPC 970, IBM has taken PowerPC performance to new heights. At up to 1.8 GHz, the PowerPC 970 is the fastest PowerPC yet introduced. But the 970 employs much more than frequency to answer the demands of high-performance computing customers. The 970’s multiple execution units including an AltiVec™ compatible vector processor are fed by an up to 900-MHz processor interface bus, which can deliver data at a rate of up to 6.4 GBps.
In designing the PowerPC 970, IBM’s goal was to provide a high-performance, simultaneous multiprocessor-enabled, 64-bit platform. Additionally, 32-bit applications needed to be supported with the same level of performance. To achieve this goal, the award-winning POWER4 architecture developed for multiprocessor IBM server systems was chosen for the base design….”
For others who use the x86 market numbers.
THIS IS NOT YOUR KIDS x86 box nor it’s price
If it is also a CHRP motherboard then this will really be a great machine. Gonna have to sell my dual xeon dell for this.
As long as I know Power4 CPUs are multi-core: multiple CPUs on the same chip… but Power PC 970s are single core.
PC’s are cheap indeed, but PC’s are crap.
Suns, SGIs, Alphas,… are real computers, but they’re extremely expensive ($10k-$50k for a workstation… ouch)
Apple is somewhere in between, providing high quality yet at a very low price
You can get a Sun Workstation for $1,500 and a Sun Server starting at $1,000.
You can look it up at Sun.com
Oh… I just saw that you have mentioned that one single core in your post… yes u r right…
See this is a funny thing, you have some fat reporter making all the comments about Apple still a loser. When with the 970 risc chip (handling 5 instructions per cycle). With the 970 running a dual 2gig, it should beat any pentium at the moment. Do the stat’s or find them I mean and you will discover that the IBM 970 runs closely to a pentium 3.06
PowerPC 970 is estimated to deliver 937 SPECint2000 and 1051 SPECfp2000. By comparison, the current 3.06 GHz Pentium 4 achieves 1085 SPECint2000 Base and 1092 SPECfp2000 Base. (geek.com)
On monday June 23rd 2003, Apple in partnership with IBM are going to make 32 bit PC’S obsolete. Across all forums PC fanboy’s are trying to hang onto 32 bit computing with all their might, on monday the best OS in world is going to get the best hardware (CPU) in the world. ALTIVEC WILL BE FREE!!
The 970 Cpu has low power requirements, Laptops anyone!!!
Is irrevelant for 99% of the population. My Mac does what I want, never crashes or fails. The whole thing just works. In years of PCs I have never had the same experience. Apple needs to lower prices. PC prices have got significatly lower over the past 1-2 years while Apples have pretty much remained static.
However, once you’ve used an Apple it is hard to go back. Apple just needs to get more people using them.
…to the public and saying that HARDWARE is the problem. The LOUSY SYSTEM SOFTWARE has been and remains the problem, and no beautiful, fast new hardware (as they have proven over the past 7 years) can take away from the fact that OS X is not properly integrated, nor can it keep up with the user’s demands…
This is SHAMEFUL.
Steve Jobs should resign as the top UI person, also. He has no talent for this, given the purported Panther screen shots.
Whats wrong PC Dude.
The PowerPC 970 does need to be used across the board in all form factors, from the IMAC, Laptops, Power, Ibooks, and EMAC’S as soon possible.
Actually, it’s expected that IBM will combine the AltiVec unit with their existing G3 core, and begin manufacturing their own G4 processors. With modern manufacturing techniques applied and the G3’s smaller core size compared to the PPC970, we can expect to see extremely low power consumption, cheap G4s that can be clocked much higher than Motorola’s offering.
I don’t know when we can expect these, but my guess is these IBM G4 processors will be used in things like the iBook, iMac, and eMac, and the PPC970 will be reserved for the PowerMac and PowerBook.
Motorola, probably fearing that it may lose Apple as a customer, has also begun work on improving its G4 processors. See this Register article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/30993.html
And this PDF from Motorola, about a move to “Rapid I/O”, which also talks about clocking G4s up to 3GHz without a significant increase in heat dissipation:
http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf
I think the bottom line is that G4-base systems will be getting much cheaper and more powerful in the future, be the processors supplied by Motorola or IBM.
Basically I really don’t care about how much percentage Apple has in the overall pc market. Heck how can they when in the market there are 95 other companies(hp, dell, etc) competing for almost the samething.
For me it comes down to pro-users, because I’m am an artist. Mac’s are what I learn on in college, Adobe softwares, Final Cut, and macromedia stuff. Apple has over 50 % of the creative market right now
That obviously has been the focus for Apple and they are doing a great job at it.
To me I really don’t care about dominating the world with Machintosh’s(good goal anyways, we should). I like the fact that my mac out-produces in video using Final Cut Pro then all my friends using Premiere. I also like seeing them drewl over OS X.
Anyways, 970 will rule my creative workstation!
Also I think it really comes down to is that people(the 95) will complain no matter what Apple does, no matter. They will sit on the side line with their pc’s and talk about how bad the iMac is, or OS X, or the iApps and NEVER ONCE, NEVER ONCE been on one or used OS X or an Xserver.
See you got a lot of people that are full of logic(pc that is). When the reality is that Apple may be a-logical
AIM is Apple, IBM and Motorola. They own the power chip line. Motorola is losing money on it’s chip plant and want to sell out. (no one is buying) IBM has the production ability and can produce 970’s till the cows come home.
Now the new Power 970 is a 64 bit box. It runs on a real motherboard design and will run both MacOSx and AIX.
Funny no one says that? So how could one compair this new machine to any current Apple or Intel box?
May I remind you when G3 first came out, it was faster than x86. Some short years later, x86 caught up. Then when G4 was released, very quickly its performance lead was taken by x86. How long would the G5 last? What incentive does IBM has to invest more on R&D to release faster more competitive processors at the speed of Intel, and to the lesser extent, AMD?
None.
So really, even if G5 is faster than any x86 processor, that would be a temporary trend.
May I remind you when G3 first came out, it was faster than x86. Some short years later, x86 caught up. Then when G4 was released, very quickly its performance lead was taken by x86. How long would the G5 last? What incentive does IBM has to invest more on R&D to release faster more competitive processors at the speed of Intel, and to the lesser extent, AMD?
You’re missing the point, rajan. IBM doesn’t have to do any R&D. The R&D for the PPC970 successor has already been done by IBM’s Power5 team. IBM is constantly researching manufacturing process improvements. All IBM has to do is cut the Power5 core down in the same way they cut the Power4 core down for PPC970.
Even you have to admit the PPC970 production schedule has been nothing but extraordinary, a testament to IBM’s production facilities. IBM already has many technological advantages in manufacturing processes, namely SOI.
The reason Apple lost out to x86 was an enormous gap in Motorola’s processor development. Unless IBM stops developing the POWER series (and we all know the likelyhood of that) there is no logical reason why a similar gap will occur in the PPC970 line.
So, sorry rajan, looks like Macs will be competative with PCs performance wise for some time to come.
And until Intel releases a 3.2GHz Xeon, the dual 2GHz PPC970 system will be the fastest personal computer available, and that’s not even counting the AltiVec performance we’ll see on AltiVec-enabled applications.
It looks like there is going to be some competision
between them. The will make both platforms alot better.
I Will be intrested when they start using photon (insted of using electrons) in the cpu’s. Almost no heat made and boosting the speeds up to 30 or 40 Ghz
Steve Jobs should resign as the top UI person, also. He has no talent for this, given the purported Panther screen shots
Don’t know if they’re real screenshots or not but even Apple’s current UI beats Windows, KDE and Gnome…
I think you got that all messed up!
IBM is using for themselves the PowerPC 970 CPU too! Not only for Apple! Get YOUR facts straight! :p
First and foremost, they earn by continue to be ahead of Intel/Amd and then, just then, Apple… And don’t forget that they added the “AltiVec” unit just because of Apple! They (IBM) should know firsthand better than ANYONE out there if that is good or bad for them in the long run
how can it be a bad thing in the long run. When infact the long run has proven so good to IBM with the G3 chip. Have you forgotten that Apple sold millions of iMacs, powermacs and iBooks with the chip. My iMac says IBM G3 when I look at the specs.
Anyways, I’m hoping CPU magazine gets their hands on the fastest Mac and pins it up to one of the Xeon. It should be a good challenge.
I think companies like SGI should be teaming with Apple in some way. Because Apple with the new 970 has the ability now to over take SGI’s market. Given that Maya, Shake, Combustion, and others are already OS X ready. And not to mention the Xserver, that can piece the rendering job up over the network.
How can they say anything about the performance of a machine that is not out yet, a processor that no one saw before, and a new bus design (also the fastest FSB)?
I am willing to bet that the dual 2Ghz 970 will beat the pants off the P4 3.0GHz. The hypertransport protocol was designed for multi-processors in mind. Also see the spec benchmarks here for P4:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/roundupmobo/p4-fsb800-i875p.htm…
and Power4 here:
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/news/pressreleases/200…
The main reason x86 sky-rocketed with the intro of G4 was the stiff competition between AMD and Intel for the Gigahertz processor.
Add to that the lethargy of Motorola in getting a new chip out in time.
The important thing that has happened with the switch to IBM is the use of chips that will be sold in volume in non-mac computers. This should keep the price down, and offer improved processors regularly.
More market share isn’t the only criteria to creating a “non-loser.” Just because Apple doesn’t have the market share doesn’t mean they are a loser. They build better products, make money, have been around longer then Microsoft, and produce customers that have more loyalty then a sports team. If I was in Steve Jobs position I would be MORE proud of the fact that I have more loyalty then more computers being sold.
You get what you pay for. Your new Apple 970 will last longer then ANY PC. Period. Another reason people buy more PCs then Apples; their old PC already sucks.
Once you go Mac, you’ll never go back. 🙂
For years I’ve heard the argument ‘yah Mac’s are more expensive but they come with everything – once you add all the equivalents to the PC the price different shrinks.’
Ok, I just priced out equivalent systems, I tried to be as fair as possible. At the end of the day (CDN prices) the equivalent Mac is almost $3000 more expensive. I could almost buy another system for that much difference.
And the other thing that bugs me is even with the exchange rate difference – Canadians are getting hosed by Apple.
And before I get flamed, I truly love Apple/Jobs. I used to own a NextStation Turbo as well as a Mac IIsi. But the reality is I can’t afford to get a decent Mac to do video editing with.
PC Clone
Super Micro Dual Xeon MB – 669.95
2x2Ghz Xeons (533) – 759.90
Ati radeon 9700 pro – 449.95
WD 200GB 7200rpm ata100 – 309.95
cpu cooler – 60
case – 235
power supply 350w – 85
mouse (optical) – 69
keyboard – 49.99
512MB memory – 250
DVD Writer (Pioneer) – 300
cd-rw (Plextor) – 150
speakers – 100
sblaster audigy – 184.95
firewire card – 89
subtotal – 3762.95
adobe premierre – 768
pinnacle studio – 199
subtotal – 967.60
Total = 4730.55
PowerMac ‘Fastest’ (same video card, same memory, no monitor etc.)
powermac – 5308.00
final cut pro – 1499
dvd studio pro – 729
Total = 7536
LOL
Your software numbers are ridiculius. You forgot to add in XP Pro ($200+ I believe). And why are you buying Premiere for you windows box and FCP for the Mac? Well, obvious FCP is better but Premiere is also available for the Mac you know (for the same price as the windows version). Honestly I don’t know much about Pinnacle Studio. But software on OS X is priced pretty competitively with the Windows counterparts. This software analysis of yours is just plain loony. Why did you bother including it except to make a biased comparison? You wanted to turn a $1600 difference into a $2800 one. Congratulations! You win the Wintel apologist of the day award!
Worst price comparison ever.
You’re right, I forgot about the OS………throw on another $200 for WinXP Pro.
And why did I use FCP? Because it’s the best SW for DVD authoring on the Mac – and that’s how much it costs.
Even say I throw on the Mac version of Premiere (which has less features)you still end up with a cost difference of almost $2000.
And the clone is still faster, plus Hyperthreading effectively gives me 4 CPU’s.
And like I said even when factoring in the exchange rate of 1.3 – the same system from Apple Canada costs me an extra $800. Which is bulls*t! Especially when everything is made in Taiwan anyway.
Sure, FCP is the best software out there. So what you’ve shown is that if you want to use the best you have to pay a little more for it. Frankly, if you’re making a living doing video and want the best software the price of the desktop hardware (render will obviously be offloaded) is going to be nearly irrelevant.
You still haven’t addressed the issue of the DVD software. I’d like to see some reviews that show that DVD Studio Pro is only as good as Pinnacle Studio and that no cheaper Mac alternative exists.
And why are you bring up the notion of “faster”? The whole reason this thread was started is because Apple is expected to announce systems Monday that are probably 4x as fast as existing Macs. Hello?
Your whole comparison smacks of bias.
Buy whatever you want for whatever reason you want. It’s your money. But trying to convince others based on deception is going to get you called out….
How your going to use hyperthreading with 2 xeons on windows xp…
And well, apparently outside of the US apple’s prices are even higher, so you are arguing against people who can find the same stuff cheaper.
Only Motorola does. The only IBM chips being used by apple currently are the G3 chips in the ibooks. In fact, until only recently, I know that the G3 has been capable of faster clock speeds than the G4. Apple held back the G3 chips for obvious reasons.
No, the reason this thread was started is because the author (echoed by me) states that Mac’s are to friggin expensive!
And the response I’m getting shows that I obviously hit a nerve.
And the bias in these threads is not from me – I’m merely supporting the authors statements.
You hit a nerve when you use deceit and falsehoods to try and prove something.
Here’s a hint: you don’t need to lie to prove that desktop Macs are more expensive – the facts do it all by themselves! Using poor comparisons and deception just makes you look stupid.
The top MAC with 512 ram and a 180 gig HD comes to 3199. Can you please tell me how you came to 5000?
An
It’s Canadian!
Sorry, Where I work at we NEVER put mission critical systems and applications on white box systems. There is no point of contact for issues and the expertise of what box manufacturers supporting their boxes is just poor especially for high NLE system. Apple easily outsells any one white box PC manufacturer. White box systems are not really that great, hence the success of Dell in the home market.
Your pricewatch comparisons are poor and ill informed. You didn’t need to resort to that ridiculous price comparison to get to the conclusion that Macs are more expensive. We already know that. Besides you chose a bad time to make this comparison because in a few hours there is going to be a hardware refresh that will make your boring Beige look worse.
Oberto, this isn’t for work, but for personal use. I’ve never had any problems with ‘white box’ systems.
If my comparison is so poor then give me a ‘better’ one instead of dumping on me.
And as for the soon to be released new systems, I bet you they are even more expensive then the existing ones.
Also, as was mentioned in earlier threads benchmarking shows the P4 3.2Ghz outperforms the 970 in integer benchmarks. Besides which the P5 is ready to go, Intel is merely waiting for AMD to release the Athlon 64 so that they can trump them immediately afterwards.
I just went to Dell and customised a similair Dual ZEON workstation. Infact it is more expencive I was at over $4000 US before I stopped.
There is never any comparision between white boxes and PC manufactures as the price shows. It is not fair to compare a white box with any manufacturer. You can always build it cheaper(except the real low end) but you do not get the type of warrenty and support. That is one reason manufactered PC’s are more expencive.
“If my comparison is so poor then give me a ‘better’ one instead of dumping on me.
And as for the soon to be released new systems, I bet you they are even more expensive then the existing ones.”
$2,999.00
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
1GHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache/processor
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI-X Slots
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
The case is slick with 9 electronically controlled fans and a warranty!
Changing the drives out to 250GB serial ATA, upgrading to a Radeon 9800, installing Airport Extreme and BlueTooth modules brings you up to $3,573.
In your earlier comparison you never put in the cost of the operating system.
I really can’t buy your argument because this G5 ain’t no G4! Go to the Apple site and look at the case. The true benchmarks still have yet to be put out but this thing is no slacker. Added on top of that you are running MacOSX!