Here is a must-read article in the SCO-Linux-IBM situation. SCO says that Linux uses inappropriate code on IBM’s JFS, NUMA, RCU and SMP. Additionally, they are looking into firing against FreeBSD (related info here) while they might even hold Microsoft responsible for some things: “Microsoft merely licensed an applications interface layer.” So it is SCO against everyone. Huh, wait. Except Sun: “Sun is clean” SCO’s CTO says. SCO also explains the GPL “deal”. Update: How appropriate: Looking to capitalize on IBM legal dispute, Sun is readying a new AIX-to-Solaris migration program. Update2: SCO suit now seeks $3 billion from IBM.The Sun migration program will kick off on Wednesday with full-page ads on big newspapers:
“Attention AIX Users: Sun is Here to Help … Unfortunately, our friends in Blue have a problem with licensing contracts that could make things very expensive for anyone running AIX,” the ads will read.
I must say, I’ve held off on the “SCO SUXX” comments so far, fronbut this just made me laugh out loud. BSD?? Microsoft?? Maybe this is the Erisian Liberation Front going all OM on us.
They may want to sue all these people, but at some point they do run out of money. If they don’t win the IBM suit….
The famous troll post starts *BSD is dying….
SCO is dying. You can hear the rasp in the voice in every misguided proclaimation.
“It’s mine you hear? Mine ALL MINE Get back in there. Down Down Down! Go Go Go! MINE MINE MINE!!!”
http://www.pusboil.com/minemine.wav
I know this comment has and will be repeated again and again, but these guys just totally suck. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it! I really wish IBM would just drive them into the ground. While all their claims are worthless, this soap opera saga is just dragging on way too long. Please IBM or somebody, please take these guys around back of the shed and let them have it. They need a bitch slappin’ like few others before!
They’re going after FreeBSD???
MURDER THE F*CKING WH*RES!!!!
The BSDs already have a VERY strong legal precedent that SHOULD protect them from SCO’s bull
Well, at least this should give all those who have been anti-gpl something to think about. Maybe there’s actually a good reason why some “gpl zealots” are actually anti-proprietary licenses.
And hey, did you guys notice the political angle? The article says that North Korea, Syria, and Libya are all using technology they “shouldn’t be using”, all thanks to Linux. In order words, Linux is sponsoring Bin Laden and terrorism. What if Bush and Rumsfeld buy into this argument? What do you think will happen?
I tell you guys, we all have to careful with what we promote, because you never know how mischievous people will abuse an otherwise useful tool. When Linus starts talking crap about how things like DRM can be good, he should be thinking seriously about these scenarios.
Well I guess I now have my question answered…
Q: “Who isn’t SCO sueing?”
A: Sun Microsystems (I still don’t understand why though?)
Let me guess…next they will claim that they own the internet because many web servers on UNIX/LINUX boxes…and of course that will then me that they own all the content including pictures, email, and all credit card transactions that are taking place…even the items that are going up for auction on eBay.
>(I still don’t understand why though?)
http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2003-03/sunflash.20030307.1.h…
I don’t see how SCO can possibly expect to sue FreeBSD. Not given out of court settlement that was made. Novel already agreed that the BSD code that FreeBSD is based on does not include any UNIX code. So it doesn’t really seem like SCO can do anything here.
“Well, at least this should give all those who have been anti-gpl something to think about. Maybe there’s actually a good reason why some “gpl zealots” are actually anti-proprietary licenses.”
The problem is that if the zealots had their way, software patents would be illegal…and lots of programmers would be out on the street trying to find new jobs after software became a worthless commodity.
As I understand it Sun owns unfettered rights to UNIX source going back to the stock swap between Sun and AT&T. I think that SCO has even less of a leg to stand on vs. Sun than they do with everything else. FreeBSD should also be hard to attack since FreeBSD had an agreement with USL when it owned UNIX source.
Sad state of affairs here. The faith must be placed in the legal system – hopefully they’ll do the right thing(I know). Or, I’m sure there’s a 12 year old somewhere creating a new and original operating system in his basement.
I want to believe that all this noise will amount to a pin drop in the history of computing, but SCO just keeps throwing that net further out in a frenzy to catch something – anything.
I’m going to go work on my metaphors now…
what was Darl McBride doing before the started at SCO? It seems like ever since he came on the scene he is the driving force behind all this nonsense.
What is his background?
Who did he work for before SCO?
I’ve been following this, and I have some (not much, but some) familiarity with the law, and it’s my opinion that when SCO distributed Linux under the GPL, as the copyright holder of the GPL’d code, they unintentionally lost proprietary rights to that code.
The only thing before that I can find is that he was spawned by Satan apparently.
is starting to look like one of those big families on TV who can’t stop fighting over what the others have long enough to see what they already had in front of them. This is just getting stupid.
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3224314245.html
Dame I hate this craps company they should just die or somthing. Why in the world are they even trying to make money of everone elses idias. I hope that someone any one kills them in court, then we all can more on in peace. I also hope that they don’t try to take on APPLE to for who now what reason they would come up with. I’m an Apple user and lover and I could see them trying to go after that company to. Just my 2 CENTS…. Die SCO SOON PLEASE
And I laughed too when I read the title.
– Mark
You know Linus already sold out. He purposely makes up some position Robert Oppenheimer never had and then for no reason that anyone can see starts going “DRM, DRM, DRM! NOW! NOW! NOW!”.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Linux is open technology that would prevent a government from totally monitoring their citizens’ computing activities. And now it must go. So link Linux with terrorism and issue some legislation as part of “Patriot II” banning it and there you have it. The USGOVT wins, MICROSOFT wins and everyone’s happy again. The government can relax as their data and activity monitoring pact with Microsoft is back to full strength. And Microsoft can relax as their only legitimate competition has been removed.
…mentioned BeOS yet, should I jump on that bandwagon now?
I work for the government (NASA) and you know what…Linux is really popular in the US Governement. We are actually transitioning most critical systems AWAY from Microsoft due to costs and security issues.
Yah this is what the guy wrote in the BYTE article and it is real what SuckCockOn (SCO) want. They saw their end of their miserable existance and they want to bring all the rest of us with them in hell. Thanks but no thanks!
Geeez, yah I am sure BeOS will get sued too (oh wait it doesnt exist anymore) or atleast all it derivated (OBOS, BlueOS, etc…). And probably PalmSource since their owner of Be’s IP. I am sure the SMP is coming from SCO.
Let see what other OS… what about QNX? It look kinda *IX and the list goes on with all the reasons why each OS belong to SCO.
Please someone take them out of their misery before they do irreversible dammage to the whole industry.
(sometime I wonder if this whole thing isnt orchestred with our favorite Evil empire from Redmon).
“Under the program, Sun will offer free two-day assessments to customers looking to migrate from Solaris to AIX.”
Opps. I think they ment AIX to Solaris! …
It was a “Freudian Slip”. Shame on you SUN! An attack on UNIX is an attack on yourself. You should target WINDOWS, the true competetor. Solaris with an OSX interface would be very competative againced windows since X-Windows blows chuncks!
NASA is not the USGOVT. NASA does not run the country. When I say USGOVT I mean “the parts of USGOVT that run the country”.
And while it is true that certain departments will use Linux inside their walls (so they know they are not being snooped by others), they do not want Linux used outside their walls (so they can keep snooping them).
Only the most ingenuous fool would think there is not more than meets the eye regarding Microsoft’s “zero penalty” anti-trust settlement. And there are many voices all over the Internet talking about the secret settlement between MSFT and the USGOVT. And Microsoft’s behavior is totally consistent with the secret settlement.
And I laughed too when I read the title.
Yes: “All your base belong to us”, it’s a funny story you know http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/index.shtml … and the flash videos are cool
anyway, is this for real? I mean:
“But I thought that Microsoft had signed a license agreement?” “No,” Sontag said. Microsoft merely licensed an “applications interface layer.”
They’re going after MSFT too? 0_o Not very smart i think.
It will by default, BlueEyedOS is Linux based
I just think SCO is looking for quick cash. nothing else. I don’t see a Big Government conspiracy. but it doesn’t matter Once we hit the day computers become lock down. There will be someone out there who will find a work around. as saying goes. if it’s made by man it can be un-made.
“The problem is that if the zealots had their way, software patents would be illegal…and lots of programmers would be out on the street trying to find new jobs after software became a worthless commodity.”
Hehe. There’s one in every crowd. As opposed to the present situation were anything, and everything can be patented, and an entire economy can be held hostage by one company. Yeah! Big alternative.
So good they tried to make it illegal.
Kinda think this would be nice
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990222
President: “Ha ha ha! 100 Billion dollars? That’s like asking for a bajillion trillion!”
Dr. Evil: “C’mon, Mr. President, show me the money.”
Scott: “You’re a moron.”
three billion dollars is insane. surely i will never see 1 billion dollars in my entire life and they want 3 billion for stuff in jfs and smp? honestly, just take out jfs and smp. FreeBSD has a new smp deal that should be intriguing :-). as far as jfs… anyone heard of XFS, rfs, or even ext3? i don’t need jfs. now, the numa and rcu stuff… that’s not my department.
another observation is how there is this sudden backing of ibm. not that i am necessarily different nor have i had a problem with ibm, but free software seem to hate big business (eg. ms)….
anyway, i’m glad ibm seems to be handling this maturely while sco runs around spreading FUD like a child runs around with the latest rumor.
It may be the dying breaths of SCO we are hearing, but I wonder why IBM is so silent regarding this matter? Could it be because they have an ace or two ready to be played at the right moment? Though I must confess, I am a bit worried about SCO getting all this media attention, and IBM is left out in the cold, looking more (dare I say it) guilty.
You know, the more the spindoctors of SCO are spewing out their vile lies, and nothing visible is being done to take care of the situation (except for that SCO site shutdown in Germany), the lies may grow and become a base many will believe to be the truth.
Love it
However they got their orders mixed up in the article…typo! “Under the program, Sun will offer free two-day assessments to customers looking to migrate from Solaris to AIX. “
In the civilized world —
“No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we’re looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn’t test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
And in America —
“No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we’re looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn’t test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. And if they test well for these qualities, we should make them CEO’s of our most important businesses and top government leaders”.
— Original quote from P. J. O’Rourke
It makes me laugh to see how American culture is dominated by violence, greed and destruction. This is the “greatest” nation on Earth, filled with people who have no human spirit, no soul, no morality, no ethics, and no care for making the world a better place.
I don’t really think the media attention is boosting SCO, if anything it is good for IBM, looking at their respective stocks will tell you that
HP, SGI, DEC (with the intelligence SCO have, they just might), Compaq and maybe even QNX. They use some POSIX code, SCO-derived I’m not sure. The rumors of having them sue Microsoft though. By geez.
It’s like being a home sporting shooter and taking on the CIA, FBI, MI6, ASIO and the Mafia. These SCO guys really REALLY don’t realise how much trouble they’re asking for.
SCO as a company, wel just rethink your steps, this is such back form, & Sun whats up; that was a cheap shot. Now everyone is worried that M$ is in on this (which they probably are). But there is really no worry there considering M$ is raising Longhorn to feed the panthers. Looks like the market is ready for a big come back. So now the qusetion is who will buy SCO after all this. And but that IP to good use.
John Dvorak did an editorial a little while ago http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.asp and basically took the tact “what if SCO is correct?” Let me first say, i belive SCO’s allegations are baseless, mean-spirited, and generally stupid, but ignoring the threat (I mean don’t have an exit stategy) is equally unwise.
Before you call me a raving luntic, all SCO needs is one Federal judge to who is symapathetic (notice they filed in Utah – not coincidental) or a tech no-nothing to issue a temporary restraining order (TRO). Ask Viacom about that, a judge in Illinois issued a TRO to Spike Lee to stop Viacom from relaunching the TNN network as “Spike TV” http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11973,00.html for Viacom’s alleged (read: unproven in court) infringement on his name. (Now to be accurate, he did have to post a $500K bond if in fact Viacom did not infringe.)
Need something with a technology slant? How about rulings that have come down about DeCSS? The MPAA has yet to show that DeCSS has ever been used as a tool of piracy, and yet the Federal Court systems has declared it as such.
Now McBride, Sontag, and the rest of the SCO crew are now attempting to portray Linux as a “terrorist tool”. Now they’re gonna try tying that one around Linux. I can just hear it now… “Not only are we protecting out valuable copyrights, we are also portecting the U.S. by keeping this software out of the hands of terrorists!”
BTW, if they succeed (which I hope and pray they won’t), who’s to say what they’ll go after next? My bet is the BSDs. ESR (amongst others) have claimed that SCO is attempt to relitigate the USL vs. UC lawsuit by stealth. Hey who needs stealth? If you scream loud enough and long enough (and wrap it in an American flag around it), stealth isn’t needed. It’s a question of Patriotism now.
If there is an success, even limited, then I see things like M$ filing suit to stop Samba. Or the Wine project. Or….
One thing is certain, contributions made to OSS projects will be more carefully scrutinized. This is a Good Thing(tm).
-dan
It makes me laugh to see how American culture is dominated by violence, greed and destruction. This is the “greatest” nation on Earth, filled with people who have no human spirit, no soul, no morality, no ethics, and no care for making the world a better place.
you’re just jealous ;-p
honestly, i don’t think we’re as bad as the world wants to think we are. Bill Gates and his wife gave a billion dollars to charity, iirc. yes, he is a money lusting bastard in business respects… but, i believe the japanese would say, “business is war”.
as for the general populace… well, i agree that at some point we all became apathetic. for example (as you are probably aware), women are being taught to scream ‘fire’ if they are being attack (i.e. raped). how sad is it when people don’t respond to that? are we the only country that does this? unfortunately i can’t explain that.
things like greed though… that probably comes from the ideal that anyone can come to the U.S. and prosper. that, and we are constantly inundated with images of beautiful models whering expensive things… the capitalist economy bakes in ‘greed’ like a 6th sense early on…
whoops whering/wearing… bad typo it’s late… forgive me if you catch others 🙂
All your *BSD are belong to us.
Several posts are saying that FreeBSD has a legal agreement that protects it against action.
This is partly correct, but not quite.
The BSD case was settled out of court and what the exact terms were is not public information.
What we do know is that 4.4 BSD-Lite (and Lite2) is unencumbered, and that’s what current versions of FreeBSD (as well as the other BSDs) are based on. It should be legally safe in that respect, but anyone can always claim that some of the new features added since then are their property.
Another issue is that apparently SCO has an unusual interpretation of their ownership as being “infectious”, making new features in a system containing their licensed property fall under their control. This is certainly not generally true for copyrights, but it is conceivable that the licensing contracts actually say something like this.
However, if SCO had a strong case in favor of their interpretation of the contracts, it would be likely that IBM would have settled the matter already.
when the cause of this whole debarcle is IBM. The kernel developers unfortunately took IBM’s contributions in good faith. If IBM has copied large portions from AIX to Linux to make up for the poor scalability Linux used to have then IMHO SCO has all the rights to persue them.
I’ve always thought that including IBM into the Linux family as a bad idea. Now I can see why SUN didn’t get involved with the Linux kernel development.
As for where SUN fits in, if this means that it kills off AIX and SUN is strengthen through this, I will be VERY happy.
” honestly, just take out jfs and smp. FreeBSD has a new smp deal that should be intriguing :-)”
I read this suggestion here for the 100th time now — don’t you grasp that this doesn’t cure the fact that these components have been used up until now none the less and that’s why they will still wnat the money..? SCO needs to be crushed by the Hulk or some such thing (maybe a lawyer..?), that’s the only cure to the problem.
Sun paid 100 millions to license Unix. That’s a lot of money; this whole deal looks like an extortion scheme to me.
This case is one of a brat (SCO) who inherited from a total stranger (Novell) and became entitled to an allowance. It feels so good for SCO that they don’t need to release software anymore : all they have to do is wait for the wire transfer. The problem is that the beneficiaries of this kind of situation tend to go nuts : they believe they can do whatever they want without retribution.
The argument that IBM violated the law by exporting software to countries like Syria is flawed : Caldera itself made OpenLinux available to anyone with an internet connection. McBride is really stupid if he doesn’t know that IBM has enough clout in the US to brush aside this implicit accusation of terrorism.
Throughout these events, SCO sound guiltier than IBM because they keep making outrageous accusations while the other party quietly prepares its case.
It’s time for the Canopy Group to understand that once the geese (Unix licencees) are either traumatised or slain, they can’t lay golden eggs anymore (licence fees).
What bothers me in this nonsense is that once all is said and done, we won’t really know why (apart from money)McBride decided to become public enemy number one in the eyes of the IT community.
By trying to capitalize on SCO’s attack on IBM , Linux and everybody elses proprietary Unix except Sun. Sun risks alienating not only Linux free software supporters, but also the broader Unix community who have always held Sun in high respect no matter which flavor of Unix they were personally using.
It will appear to be restarting the Unix wars in a most underhand way and may indeed encourage people to invest in AIX on IBM hardware rather than Solaris on Sun.
It will also tend to accelerate Lintel migration from Sun.
no one has a monopoly on greed, stupidity, or lack of morality. before you insult america, you might look at the scandals that have hit european CEOs notably in Switerland. You might also consider europes shady dealing in oil, airbus or GSM. Then look at the middle-east,Africa, Asia, and S. America. You’ll find the same thing. Everyone Sh*ts and it always smells. You only hold a microscope to americas. Shame on you especially when Europes and chinas is getting Soooooo big these days.
But back to the topic. SCO is basically blackmailing IBM with lots of media pressure and bold statements. IBM’s silence is interesting. Perhaps its just a sign of class, something SCO does not have. Perhaps, IBM wants this resolved in court to end this type of nonsense. Perhaps they have some proof that they’ll use in court to push mcbride into a fetal position and back underground. I don’t know but i can’t wait to see.
> By trying to capitalize on SCO’s attack on IBM , Linux and
> everybody elses proprietary Unix except Sun. Sun risks
> alienating not only Linux free software supporters, but also
> the broader Unix community who have always held Sun in high
> respect no matter which flavor of Unix they were personally
> using.
Putting in place strategies to attract clients from group A will alienate clients from group B? Geez. I don’t think so
> It will appear to be restarting the Unix wars in a most
> underhand way and may indeed encourage people to invest in
> AIX on IBM hardware rather than Solaris on Sun.
As I said before, a little bit of friendly competition can hardly be classified as a “war”.
> It will also tend to accelerate Lintel migration from Sun.
I doubt that will be possible. AFAIK, most candidates for Lintel->Sun migration have already made their move and the remaining Sun customers are those with heavy platform-dependent investments in sun-hardware/solaris and those with heavy scalability needs.
http://boston.com/business/tech_innovation/news/2003/06/17/sco_ibm….
Why doesn’t SCOX just go for the bajillion trillion?
“Indeed, SCO’s Stowell said that the longer his company’s case against IBM lingers in court, the larger the financial settlement his firm could eventually realize. Stowell said his company’s executives therefore welcomed the prospect that IBM would adopt a strategy of delay. “It’s not going to hurt our feelings if that’s something they choose to do,” he said.”
I’d say it sounds like they are going for it….
“honestly, i don’t think we’re as bad as the world wants to think we are. Bill Gates and his wife gave a billion dollars to charity, iirc. yes, he is a money lusting bastard in business respects… but, i believe the japanese would say, “business is war”.”
I would seriously question the charity aspect. Was it actual money? Or did they donate some money and “services”? ( read hardware and software and then claim the full retail costs ) For a non profit charity, Bill Gates seems to donate less money than is actually made on interest alone.
I do not wish to denigrate the actions of a charity as such, providing it is actually doing what it says it is doing. Unfortunately, given his past actions I have to be more than a little cynical since this smacks mostly of a tax shelter to me, as well as a personal little piggy bank to raid for capital from time to time.
FWIW, the Japanese business practices make ours look downright pedestrian. Blok war has it’s own meaning over there. Do some research on the way they conduct business. It’s quite enlightening.
“> It will also tend to accelerate Lintel migration from Sun.
I doubt that will be possible. AFAIK, most candidates for Lintel->Sun migration have already made their move and the remaining Sun customers are those with heavy platform-dependent investments in sun-hardware/solaris and those with heavy scalability needs.”
Where I work our only Sun kit are the firewalls, my ISP is still using Sun. Both are easy targets for lintel replacement.
I am sure there is a lot more like that around.
I am an admirer of Sun the first Unix box I ever used 15 years ago was a Sun 3 Workstation running SunOS. The next Unix box I used was an IBM worksation running AIX. You can guess which I preferred.
But Sun is beginning to look like it is connected to the MS backed SCO FUD campaign. If this appears to be further confimed by their actions – it indeed will bring about a backlash against them.
Seriously is anyone going to migrate from AIX to Solaris on the basis of the SCO FUD. No, people are going to be more concerned about TCO and ROI.
“Why are people abusing SCO…when the cause of this whole debarcle is IBM.”
Proably because SCO’s actions aren’t being confined to JUST IBM. SCO apparently wants to drag as many as they can into this mess. As far as I’m concerned SCO’s actions are as irresponsable as yelling fire in a crowded theater, and should carry they same consequences.
Sorry. This doesn’t make me think that the GPL is good. GPL code destroys any notion of ownership. With other licenses, ownership can be transfered or taken on derived works. With the GPL, software will be GPL *forever*. This is extremely inflexibly, has nothing to do with Open Source, and I really can’t see how this is considered ‘Free’. The GPL is primarily a set of restrictions. The BSD license on the other hand, really is ‘Free’.
On the issue of SCO. Just because a few companies abuse a system does not mean the system is bad. Some homeowners like to claim ownership over their neighbours properties. We have laws to deal with this. In a similar vien, the courts will deal with the SCO issue.
Aren’t many of the UNIX api’s standardized ala ISO or ECMA? If so then anyone is free to implement (not use existing code) these standards.
The FreeBSD thing is just a growner. I don’t know if anyone here actually *read* the article, but SCO is *not* attacking FreeBSD for anything they’ve done recently. Rather, SCO is considering reopening the AT&T settlement. They haven’t actually done anything yet though, and likely they won’t. I can’t see them getting very far with such a lawsuit. Besides they have their hands full.
I know the community here loves to get all riled up, but please, try to calm down and stop jumping to conclusions. There is nothing anyone can do but wait for the first court outcome.
Oh, and did any of you MS conspiracy theorists notice that Mircosoft is in fact NOT behind all this? Did you also notice that SCO said MS licensed an API layer? Do you realize this fits perfectly with MS’s claims of licensing SCO’s IP for UNIX Services for Windows, which happens to be an API layer?
I’m sure that there will still be many believing a conspiracy anyways though. No amount of logic can convince some people.
“Why are people abusing SCO…when the cause of this whole debarcle is IBM.”
How do you figure? Even SCOX admits that IBM didn’t code. How about the 1500 threatening letters? How about SCO trying to collect royalties on Linux and FreeBSD?
If they’re gonna go after BSD, they’re going after Apple too, OSX is BSD/UNIX.
It makes me laugh to see how American culture is dominated by violence, greed and destruction. This is the “greatest” nation on Earth, filled with people who have no human spirit, no soul, no morality, no ethics, and no care for making the world a better place.
Including PJ O’Rourke, the guy you quote, hmm?
So let’s look at your statement: you don’t qualify it, so I’ll assume you mean that all Americans “have no human spirit, no soul, no morality, no ethics, and no care for making the world a better place.”
This statement is demonstrably false, so either (1) you’re an idiot, or (2) you mean “many” Americans and not “all”.
I’m pretty sure you’re not an idiot, so we’ll go with (2). The problem with (2) is that — dig this — it’s true about most countries.
So, your real gripe is that the circumstances of the world have propelled the United States to being the most influential nation on earth at the moment: politically, militarily, economically, and technologically.
Rather than come out and say so, you go about spouting all unverifiable stories & spewing vitriol against an entire nation.
I’m surprised you didn’t warn us to watch out for the black oil & the Cigarette-Smoking Man. A real oversight on your part.
Ohh man, Daryl comes back with a right-hook.
If he’s right, ATT licenses took proprietary code, code they weren’t authorized to release, and dropped it into various components of linux and other operating systems. If so, then under US laws, they are entitled to remedy, if they can prove that the code came from them, and not SUN or BSD, which had seperate agreements/settlements with ATT.
And there is the problem. SCO’s broad suit will force everyone to review their code, and PROVE that the code did not come from them. A lengthy proposition indeed.
Sun doesn’t have to prove anything, first because they already had UNIX prior to licensing technologies from SCO, and second, because they do actually license the technology directly.
IBM does as well, BUT, IBM is actively soft pedalling AIX, a UNIX derivative, in favor of Linux, which SCO sees as a competing platform. I think that if IBM was actively supporting both platforms, then they wouldn’t be a target for the suit-it would be SGI, Novell, or some other second stringer.
SCO is not going to challenge Microsoft directly. Even if they can prove that Microsoft used part of a BSD stack somewhere, Microsoft has demonstrated a willingness to go the distance in court. Not an attractive prospect for a small UTAH firm. So, Redmond gets another free pass.
All *nix variants do not. I find it hard to believe that Linus, or the FreeBSD team for that matter, can vouch for all the code in the kernel-there are too many sources to say with certainty that all the contributed code came from individuals that had the rights to release the code.
Think about it: I may work for IBM, and if I improve the JFS code in some way (as an example), then I can use it in AIX, so long as I don’t release it on terms contrary to the license from SCO.
But, if I have Linux as a hobby, and I want to help the cause, adding the code modifications to JFS for linux releases code I did not have the clear authority under the license to release, under a permissive and open licensing agreement that the code’s owner did not conceed to.
That means that I need to prove that the code does not come from SCO, or a SCO licensee, in any way, or the code is tainted, and SCO has a remedy.
If there isn’t any tainted code in the kernel, then SCO appears to have a claim at the distros and the Xfree team, which will effectively stifle Linux as we know it.
If there is any derivative or copied code in Linux or BSD (or Darwin for that matter), either now, or in the past, then yes, SCO is entitled to remedy.
Check yer code boys and CYA!
“Oh, and did any of you MS conspiracy theorists notice that Mircosoft is in fact NOT behind all this? Did you also notice that SCO said MS licensed an API layer? Do you realize this fits perfectly with MS’s claims of licensing SCO’s IP for UNIX Services for Windows, which happens to be an API layer?
I’m sure that there will still be many believing a conspiracy anyways though. No amount of logic can convince some people.”
SCO is nearly bankrupt. MS pays SCO for a License (which is the only reason SCO is in profit for the first quarter) this is announced the same time that SCO is launching its attack on IBM and Linux. This is also interestingly about the same time as Widows Server 2003 is being launched. Negotiations must have been going on for some time prior to this. Looks like a coordinated attack to me.
Note: the question is not what MS is licensing – but the fact that it is using the the License purchase to finance SCO’s FUD campaign – and we all know who invented FUD
Looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck – MS an SCO
Still – No amount of logic can convince some people
It up to SCO to prove (to the legal requirements of civil) that code SCO legally holds copyright over was placed into the Linux kernel without authoriztion. Furthermore in the case against IBM that this was carried out by IBM employees or its agents.
To show a few pages of photocopied printout (with no proof of provenance)to a liberal arts major journalist under a restrictive non disclosure agreement is not evidence it is a circus act. Part of a campaign of FUD and extortion coupled with a stock market scam.
> The BSD license on the other hand, really is ‘Free’.
<sarcasm>
Sure, my friend, and that of course means BSD-licensed software, unlike GPL one, is inherently immune to third-party copyright infringement claims. By definition, that is. Because it never ever can happen that some stupid MF puts some proprietary code into it.
<sarcasm/>
Come on already people, this doesn’t have anything to do with license flavor. It’s an intrinsic feature of Open Source and, unfortunately, it’s the thing that might be used against it. (Say, a company whose software faces competition from its open-source counterpart can embed a proprietary Trojan horse in it. I’m sure there will be quite a few such lawsuits in the future.)
A.K.H.: you should learn how to spell the word “zealot”.
I tell you guys, we all have to careful with what we promote, because you never know how mischievous people will abuse an otherwise useful tool. When Linus starts talking crap about how things like DRM can be good, he should be thinking seriously about these scenarios.
To correct your view of what Linus actually said about DRM, he said that while he doesn’t like the idea, he won’t oppose making it part of Linux. There is no implication in this that using DRM would be mandatory, which is what Microsoft and the entertainment industry seems to want. Linus is not gunning for DRM.
The article says that North Korea, Syria, and Libya are all using technology they “shouldn’t be using”, all thanks to Linux. In order words, Linux is sponsoring Bin Laden and terrorism. What if Bush and Rumsfeld buy into this argument?
This is just pure BS. SCO has no way to substantiate its claims, short of an invasion force discovering Linux computers. Or, somebody from the NSA/CIA coming to testify. It ain’t gonna happen.
There is no way in hell that they can sue BSD.
Why? Because all code in any of the BSD distributions was originally released under the BSD license. There’s a bigger chance of SCO nicking BSD code than the other way around.
“Hehe. There’s one in every crowd. As opposed to the present situation were anything, and everything can be patented, and an entire economy can be held hostage by one company. Yeah! Big alternative.”
Not anything and everything can be patented. Only things that are innovative and non-obvious can be patented. Sure it has been abused at times, such as Amazon’s one click ordering, which they never should have gotten a patent on, but at other times it has worked quite well.
Example: Apple rightly lossed their lawsuit against e-machines after a court ruled that “a fashion trend cannot be patented.”
Well, just as opportunistic as attorneys are.. I think Suns move looks pretty skanky..” hi we know that Ibm is involved in a Skanky lawsuit, so we thought we’de be Uber-Skanks and try to cash in !! ” Really.. how long is it going to be before Chris Somefag and Daryl MacBribe try to sue them as well?? Personally , i think its time that any company involved in oss and linux start counter suing. Cover SCO’s a$$ in paper to the extent that every second of every day is billable to Scos lawyers
The man is just a friggin’ maniac.
http://fejack.net/Dr_McBride.jpg
or does it sound like the guy running the company is insain?
he is basicly suing every one in computing for the last 30 years!!!
share holders in SCO need to fire this moron.
I smell a zionist on the prowl, he sniffs out his precious money.
Chem-
True, it is up to SCO to prove that they have the rights to the code, BUT, IBM has to prove that they had not violated the terms of their licensing agreement with SCO.
That means IBM also has to prove that they, or their agents either:
1) did not knowing distribute unautorized code,
2) had authorization to distribute the code from another licensed source, such as SUN
or
3) that they developed the code internally.
IT’s IBM’s burden, afaik, to prove this. All SCO has to do is assert the right.
I know that my comment is redundant, but this whole thing is just a plan to get the ding-dings (so-called executives) at SCO a little bit of extra cash before the whole operation folds.
Michael take your anti American TRASH somewhere else.
This world would be a cesspool without the USA. You realize we send more money overseas than most countries PRODUCE in a year.
We just sent 10 billion to Africa to fight AIDS. Yes Bush did this.
GO FSCK yourself.
I hate Microsoft even more. Gee, SCO’s using David Boies, who happens to be MS’ lawyer. Gee where is little bumbling SCO getting all the $$$ from to pay Mr. Boies….
“True, it is up to SCO to prove that they have the rights to the code, BUT, IBM has to prove that they had not violated the terms of their licensing agreement with SCO. ”
wrong. In america the burden of proof falls on the plaintiff not the defendent. If SCO fails to provide adequate proof then IBM walks, even if IBM says nothing in its defense.
“Note: the question is not what MS is licensing – but the fact that it is using the the License purchase to finance SCO’s FUD campaign – and we all know who invented FUD”
Who invented FUD??? Um, that would be IBM. They did that a long time ago.
That would actually be a funny method of attack against SCO though. “You’re using FUD, which WE invented several years ago and patented. You’re doing so without a license. PAY UP NOW!!!” LOL
” honestly, just take out jfs and smp. FreeBSD has a new smp deal that should be intriguing :-)”
I read this suggestion here for the 100th time now — don’t you grasp that this doesn’t cure the fact that these components have been used up until now none the less and that’s why they will still wnat the money..? SCO needs to be crushed by the Hulk or some such thing (maybe a lawyer..?), that’s the only cure to the problem.
i was half joking with that. the more money SCO asks for, the more unreasonable it sounds. if they somehow win i don’t think they will be awarded all that money. even less so if ibm can comprimise and have linus remove the offending code and have it replaced. i only mentioned the bsd thing as a possible replacement that could be part of a settlement (and because I love BSD). But, yea, you are right… at this point, that is of little help 🙂
The irony of this whole situation is that it just shows how bad and illegal the GPL license really is. It seems that AT&T came up with the GPL license some 30 years ago, except instead of the viral nature of the license pushing everything into public domain, their contract pushed all development of technology to themselves.
And it seems kind of strange that it’s happening now, which happens to be the same time that Linux is starting to take hold and possibly, take off. Is it possible a rather large software company threatend by Linux is behind this?
– Mark
I hate them. I hate seeing that fool McBride use the media as a weapon for FUD.
The GPL license in and of itself is not bad. The problem is the GPL zealots. They claim that they represent freedom. But the truth is they represent anything but freedom. After all, the GPL zealots are the ones who want to take away MY right to license MY software how I see fit. Where is the freedom in that?
GPL zealots: If you want to play around in your GPL world, more power to you. But stop trying to force others to play in your little world too.
“The GPL license in and of itself is not bad. The problem is the GPL zealots. They claim that they represent freedom. But the truth is they represent anything but freedom. After all, the GPL zealots are the ones who want to take away MY right to license MY software how I see fit. Where is the freedom in that?”
Hey, nobody ever wants to take YOUR right to license YOUR software how YOU see fit. Even the most zealous GPL zealots. Just make sure it’s really yours.
And with any license you have to agree to it in order to be to be bound by it.
“Hey, nobody ever wants to take YOUR right to license YOUR software how YOU see fit. Even the most zealous GPL zealots. Just make sure it’s really yours.”
Yes, there are zealots who DO want to take away my right to license my software how I see fit. FSF is a good example. If they had their way, software patents of any kind would be completely illegal.
If you don’t like software patents, go develop your own software that doesn’t use patents. But don’t tell other people that they can’t patent their designs and creations.
This comes from the first page of this thread…
The problem is that if the zealots had their way, software patents would be illegal…and lots of programmers would be out on the street trying to find new jobs after software became a worthless commodity.
You’re somewhat right. The problem is that software patents can _also_ push a lot of programmers on the street. How? A company just have to get patents on some key innovations, ask for high royalties (high enough to be unaccessible by small software companies) and sit on their fat ass while the cash is entering. If another company makes an innovation, they would just have to buy them. It’s free market, after all.
Software patents is probably essential, but can also kill the competition. I think they should only be valid for 10, 15 or 20 years. It should be the same thing with copyright laws.
My 2¢ CDN.
The most likely scenario that got SCO going is that some greedy lawyers said they could and convinced them. Ever get one of those “class action” letters regarding one of your credit cards? Same idea. The law firm makes millions and the card holders make three bucks. Who starts these suits? The lawyers that realize they can make tons of money off of these things.
Software patents are a waste of time and energy. Patents were originally used to give the originator of an innovation or invention a monopoly to make it worth his while to develop it and bring it to market.
Patents were also never granted for frivolous embellishments.
Software patents have been used to
a: slow down a rapidly advancing field of enterprise, thus they are inherently anti-competitive;
b: hold back common usage of algorithms etc, that already are in the public domain – see AT&T and the X Window System re: backing store – thus such software patents are an aspect of business and government corruption and fraud;
c: are unenforceable by the smaller players, thus meaning that software patents penalize innovation – smaller players tend to be hungrier, thus more innovative than the bigger players with their present market niches.
Software patents are fraudulent misrepresentation concerning ideas, markets and the existence of widespread corruption in government and business. I would rather businesses actually competed at things other than bullying and keeping innovation out.
Your Opinions May Vary – but you have to back them up – with something better than personal abuse.
software patents are just plain evil. If they had existed in the 50s, computing would be dead, because every bloke who would have wanted to use a FOR construct would have had to pay 20$ to the patent owner until 1980.
To Michael : Conspiracy theory is sooo interesting.
Just think about this one : the free world will soon realise it doesn’t NEED america anymore.
And this one : for the price of the totally unneeded war on irak (who it seems had NO weapon of mass destruction but lots of petroleum) you could have built 2 fully equipped hospitals in each of the 50 states. Or send an entire generation to university. Please realise it’s YOUR money they’re spending.
And I’m not even talking abour the 20 years it will take to rebuild US foreign relations to their pre-Bush Jr. levels.
“a: slow down a rapidly advancing field of enterprise, thus they are inherently anti-competitive;”
Software patents are the reason why we have had innovation. That’s what drives the market. The ability to capitalize on your design. If people can’t capitalize on their research, then why bothter spending the money to do the research in the first place? Why not let someone else do it and then just steal it from them when they have developed? Of course, everyone is going to think the same way.
“c: are unenforceable by the smaller players”
They are? Hmmm… I seem to remember back in the very early 90s… A little company called Stac Electronics sucessfully sued the giant Microsoft for patent infringement. Oh… And guess what? Stac won.
“I would rather businesses actually competed at things other than bullying and keeping innovation out.”
What would you rather they compete at? Offering the lowest price on indentical products because no one can patent their ideas anymore? Would you rather they compete at seeing how much they can cut their costs by laying off workers?
“Your Opinions May Vary – but you have to back them up – with something better than personal abuse.”
And you need to do the same. All you have done is state personal opinion. You haven’t backed up your opinions with any kind of verifiable evidence.
Perhaps one of the most interesting things n the article about the SUN migration program is SUN studying the possibility of targeting Windows NT with a Solaris x86 migration program.
This after SUN killed off Solaris x86, but then brought it back because of user demand?
Solaris x86 is a good platform. But SUN is going to have to do something more than their on again – off again support for the x86 platform if they want people to commit to Solaris x86.
The irony of this whole situation is that it just shows how bad and illegal the GPL license really is. It seems that AT&T came up with the GPL license some 30 years ago, except instead of the viral nature of the license pushing everything into public domain, their contract pushed all development of technology to themselves.
Umm, AT&T didn’t come up with the GPL license. Indeed, AT&T’s flip-flops on licensing (first giving the code away for free to univ’s and others, then reversing course) are one of the reasons everything in Unixworld is so confusing.