One year ago I wrote a review of Gnome 2. Some people thought I was harsh, others thought I was fair, point is, I always write what I think and surely Gnome 2.0 didn’t have the polish or stability of a .0 release. But one year has passed. Gnome 2.2.1 is out, and I must say one thing: I am starting to get impressed by the effort and the clean interface Gnome 2 is now offering. Update: Screenshots inside.The area where Gnome excels today is in usability. All its preference panels are following the Gnome HIG, so there is great consistency throughout its included apps. A few things could always be designed a bit better, but because of the whole consistent and non-bloat look, it doesn’t make the life of the user any bad.
The absolutely great thing about the HIG on Gnome is that it has won the hearts of all its maintainers, so when people are suggesting applications to become part of the main distribution of Gnome, they are instructed to HIG-ify their applications. It is absolutely imperative that developers read, understand and comply with the HIG as it is for the good of the platform in the long run. I like that. Example of a great-looking application that a non-core developer created with (obviously) lots of care: tsclient. This app is not HIG-compliant, but you can feel the extra thought its developer put upon.
While there is still no menu-editor for Gnome 2 (the Nautilus one doesn’t work with Red Hat Linux 9 by default, and Nautilus is hardly the best way to handle this issue anyway), I must say that the “keep it simple” design of Gnome 2 is what won me over the time. I like simple and to the point UI designs. Bloatware is what I can’t handle for more than 10 minutes. Gnome tries to not include more than 10-12 items per menu, as this is the maximum number users can handle “at a glance” (something that is important when considering a good UI). I believe this is the biggest difference with its rival, KDE. KDE tries to offer any possible and conceivable option and they run in the danger of clutter. Gnome instead tries to have good defaults, fewer options: less is more.
Despite the menu-editing limitation, Gnome 2 is quite flexible and extensible with the use of its taskbars. You can have many different panels and design your panel the way you want to. I wish someone adds an option to the tasklist to not display the name of the open application, but only its icon (and an ALT text when on-mouse-overing) in order to create a panel which “emulates” a dock a-la Mac OS X. Another feature I would like to see in its panel is the ability to have a “Quick Launch” area where all application launcher icons are the half-size of the Gnome menu icon size. This is important for both real screen estate (so I could put two icons vertically – e.g. 2x16x16 icons on a 32-pix panel) and clarity reasons (today it is difficult to distinguish the difference between an icon and the foot menu – they all have the same space between them and the same size with only a small arrow showing that the foot menu might be ‘special’).
Regarding look and feel, Gnome’s default widget look is a very boring one, and maybe one of its weak points. Remember, “defaults matter”, most users stay with the defaults, so these should be attractive and make sense. I would advocate for the creation of a brand new –modern and eye catching, but still comfortable– widget set with a window manager theme where its buttons are well defined and quite large (similar to Bluecurve’s size), as Gnome is at the marketing point that it should consider all kind of users, including newbies (in computers in general with… mouse movement problems 😉 or simply people that require this form of accessibility.
Gnome 2 is much-much more stable than a year ago. I still get crashes with Yelp though sometimes (gtkhtml problems), while Nautilus’ SMB VFS is just not as good as it should have been (and I am not aware of any work done to this recently). But overall, the system is way more stable than older versions and it seems to be getting better with each release.
Speed-wise the DE is not bad either, especially if compiled with the latest GCCs. A Pentium II 500 Mhz is a good machine to run Gnome 2 comfortably, but as always, the faster the better. GTK+ 2.x is much slower than GTK+ 1.x and this fact is especially visible on “heavy” apps like Abiword 1.9.x and Galeon 1.3.x. Another of my hopes is that gtkmm will follow more constant releases and somehow distribute their SDK with Gnome by default, so Gnome can easily attract some C++ developers.
There are two more issues with Gnome, but these are bound to ‘naturally’ get resolved as time goes by: Integration with the underlying OS and the File Open/Save dialog. Some will advocate that it is the distribution’s job to offer tools that will manage the OS (e.g. networking setup panel), but I am not sure where the fine line really is so you can’t say for sure that “this is an app that should come with the DE and this is an app that should come with the OS”. If Gnome or any other DE can offer a solution in a consistent manner, then I am all for using it. Additionally, I don’t like what some distros are doing, they create their own “system settings”, “admin settings” and they also leave there Gnome’s “preferences”. It just doesn’t feel right to have many preferences scattered all over the place in the menu. Gnome should find a way and create a framework for all preferences and with the use of easy to develop addons, distributions could easily add their tools without adding bloat, but only “publishing” their addons to the corresponding category that Gnome has pre-defined. Another integration issue is the easy mounting/unmounting of devices, I want to be able to see all my partitions on the context menus of “Disks” and not just what’s available on fstab and I want mounting to be done automatically just by clicking the name of the partition in the submenu (the system to figure out by itself what kind of partition this is and mount it using the appropriate fs type). Yes, just like how BeOS gracefully does it. As for the file save/open dialog, this should be coming with GTK+ 2.4 in a few months, so hang on!
Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing Gnome “emerging” in their distribution the changes Ximian did for their upcoming Ximian Desktop 2. Most of Ximian’s work would require to be modified to better design principles (see my example here – no, not completely HIG-ified either) but these Ximian advancements have merit and importance and it would be a helpful hand to Gnome and its users. Other third party applications that would be great to join the club would be a HIG-ified version of Balsa or Evolution, Galeon or Epiphany, tsclient, Anjuta2, Bluefish, Gnumeric 2, AbiWord 2, gPDF, Gaim, Totem or a HIG-yfied Xine/mplayer gui, an internet downloader (like GetRight), a PDA/iPod sync suite, an iCal-like app, Gftp and yes, the GIMP itself.
Maybe a Clipboard manager too, but for the love of God, not this thing, but something more in line with the much lighter ClipUP (as a small panel plugin instead of a full app).
Overall, I am optimistic about Gnome’s development as a DE and I believe that with time this huge effort can accomplish an even cleaner and consistent interface throughout its application base for all its users. There is no doubt in mind, the only way is up.
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2941
BTW, this is off topic.
sorry…..scientific studies have shown that layout is the best for users.
and about the windows copying the other poster mentioned…if you noticed, Gnome does not copy windows or Mac…it has sort of a Mix of the best features from both (but as Euginia said…they need to dump the text in the task bar and just have the Icons….and I think they need to make global menues and make the task bar and tasklist not over lap…and only display the icons of the program inthe tasklist with a mouse over to tell what it is.
does someone know if the xfree-team is already working on enhancing xfree with 3d-capabilities like osx or longhorn-a while ago here on osnews there was an interview with an xfree-developer who said they are thinking about incorporating such features in xfree 5.
btw, what happened to keith packard and the planned fork-has something changed at xfree about speed of development, decision-making?
thx.
Thats it, we now need a generic solution. The user should be able to select from various styles, the HIG specification is one example, but they should be able to go to the control panel and see examples of all the specifications, and choose the one they like. Than the desktop should be able to conform to their choice. How about that.
uhhhhhhhhh………..how about you do all the programming and get back to us when your done 🙂
Am i the only one who likes the look’n’feel of ximian gnome 1.4 ?
I’m actually running for almost 4 years (since November 99) the redhat 6.2 with gnome 1.4 (since its launch) and I love this environnement. My windows manager is Enlightnement (I think it’s the fastest and the more eye candy one) and my filemanager of every day work is mc (in its text version). I know, it’s text only and all but it’s still the fastest. I tried every filemanager I’ve found in freshmeat and the only other one I like is gnome-commander but once I find it too much instable to be really usable I will keep using mc.
I don’t need to have a filemanager who can do everything but
coffee. A filemanager is to browse my files, even if they’re on a ftp and mc can do that. I don’t care if it can handle properly the latest msn.com web bloaty stuff, mozilla can do it and it’s always running, so the launching time is null.
My other apps of choice are xemacs (for latex and caml stuff, nedit for text editing and html and xmms, lopster and gaim for the rest.
My creative jukebox run fine with gnomad and I’m happy too. Thanks.
Shame that the mail program of mozilla is so slow so I’m keep using netscape 4.78 mailer (I used to enjoy spruce but it’s almost not maintened so I gave up) …..
I can do everything whit that. I also use emule (mldonkey clone for those who care), cantus (id3 editor) and I’m happy.
But the only time I tried gnome 2 on a friend of mine linux box, I found it too slow, not configurable, nothing I like in. I tried kde 3 but I just can’t be confortable with it. I don’t know, I found it not enough responsive. I don’t like the general look’n’feel.
The only thing I lack is a tool like fingerpop on mac classic. I remember that October Gnome had a similar feature in a menu (when you put a directory on the panel bar, it allowed to be hierarchically browsable) but it has disapearred in gnome 1.0
I hope that the ximian gnome 2 will bring me the same experience but if nautilus is still slow on my PIII 500 (with 256 mo), I will keep my gnome 1.4 forever
why did I change ? Consistency is great but it means nothing to me if I have to wait forever when I want to browse my files.
So maybe I should launch a project on sourceforge such as Ximian gnome14 forever or something like this and I will join the “forgottengreatprojectFOREVER” crew (remember golgotha ? 3dfx ?)….
So it’s late here
Djamé
ps : can someone tell me if they changed the fileselector in
the last release of gnome ? I like the tab completion in this one but it lacks a bookmark item. I can’t believe why noone created a gtk filemanager with the history of the last 10 directories and the 10 most visited…… It would be so… simple to easy.
Maybe the widgets should allow you to un-dock and dock the controls on the window form with certain constraints.
User interface styles are a good start for out of the box consistantcy, but it is also requested that the GUI be customizable in order to meet the users preference. I think it is possible to add this kind of behavior to the widgets. By God I will do it myself.
So am I in the minority if I prefer working within KDE but love the gtk based apps like gnumeric and abiword (those are gtk, right?)?
While not as fully featured, fluxbox and xfce4 are really really easy on the eyes too. And you all know already how fast they are. Icewm is good too…aw hell, I think I like all of the WMs one way or another, LOL.
I just wish the two biggies, KDE and GNOME were faster. Both the login managers take too long move onto the actual DE, or at least they feel that way..
KDE’s featurs, merged with GNOME’s features + GNOME’s usability = ULTIMATE DE FOR ME!
Give me a break. Grow up, Gnome. I was a faithful user, but now KDE has thoroughly won me over. Why? Basic functions work. Don’t tell me, Gnome still hasn’t quite figured out the whole “clipboard” thing either?
Um, I had great difficulty deciphering your post. What you appear to be saying is to make the OSNews staff names red. I don’t think that’s a good idea–the mods always stop any impersonators rather quickly, and it would take away from the democratic-esque feel we have here.
I do think that “—.client.attbi.net” IPs should be marked in some way so that it’s not possible to impersonate any of the mods.
I had trouble too… never knew one could make so many mistakes in a single paragraph…
Sorry, for straining your eyes, I know some of you don’t like to play scramble, I was typing too fast. But, not even I knew that I made so many mistakes.
also, Eugenia, you did not respond to me, any chance Osnews might get a script or something that would restrict users from posting as Osnews staff? That would help a lot.
Regarding my Ximian mockup, someone said that it is not HIG-compliant. Well, while I didn’t design that with the HIG in mind, I did HIG-ified it as much as I could:
http://img.osnews.com/img/3721/hig.png
(just the UI, not the logic)
And I came to the conclusion that the Gnome HIG is not always correct. Box GTkFrames should not be deprececated. When two boxes are aligned horizontally, then the developer should have the freedom to use them.
If the frames are aligned vertically, by all means, use the new Header way, but for clarity reasons, when the frames are horizontal, boxes should be available and should be used most of the time.
And I don’t see this as a consistency issue (having both), MacOSX also uses both and it is perfectly fine.
I like your old one a lot ebtter with the brder, it jsut seems clreare and more proffesional.
hello, I’ve downloaded DirectFB and installed as much as I could, I’ve got some of the test software to run. What did you do to get the screenshots, with the window manager (it seems) and multiple apps running? With the translucency and all that?
Erik
> Another of my hopes is that gtkmm will follow more constant releases
What exactly do you hope for? Do you want more frequent releases? Why do you think that more frequent releases are necessary?
I’m trying to use GNOME, I really am. Yet every time, it just leaves me tearing my hair out and I go back to KDE.
Example: I got rid of the main panel and created several sliding panels in it’s place. The Main sliding panel, which contains the start menu, is now completely unconfiguable. The manual says to right click on a vacant part of the panel. Problem: there isn’t a vacant part of the panel. The panel is made up of the application icons, and is exactly the size of the icons. I selected the option to remove the sliding arrows, and now there is no vacant space left! I can’t even remove the panel to start again!
There are other irritations, but this panel thing is a killer. It’s unbelievable bad design.
Add an applet to it, and use that applet’s vacant space. I hope that they fix it in 2.4.
And how do I add an applet to it if I can’t select it?
I didn’t want this to become a GNOME helpdesk so I’ll describe some other problems:
Nautilus: How do I select a small font for the icon descriptions? The standard application font is far too big. Is there any way to shorten an icon name until you hover the mouse over it? (ie, display “j2sdk…” instead of “j2sdk-1.4.1-01-linux-i586-gcc3.2-bin.rpm (over several lines)? Why is it so hard to toggle beteen showing hidden files? (Have to open the preferences dialog instead of selecting an option in the “view” menu.)
Why do all the widgets look like dull grey rectangles? I tried importing another theme that looked a bit funky. Nope, widgets still look the same. Why is there no way to edit colours without changing the entire theme?
How do I set up an icon on the desktop to mount a shared drive and open a filebrowser in the mounted directory? It’s one click in KDE, but I’m buggered if I can see how to do it in GNOME.
Even in the configuration window, there are just so few options. If the option you want isn’t there, tough. I know it’s a legitimate criticism of KDE that there are too many options, at least you can find the one you want.
Ideally, GNOME and KDE need to work together more. Why can’t there be a tool that configures the fonts you want to use that will call the appropiate configurators in both KDE and GNOME? Likewise window behaviour. If I say that I prefer to double-click in KDE, it’s a fair bet that I prefer to double-click in GNOME as well. If I use a GTK app like evolution, why do I have to go into GNOME to change the fonts/appearance? The user shouldn’t really care if he is using a Qt app or a GTK app.
Add it to another panel, middle click it and drag it to the panel you want to get to the properties pane on.
Will Gnome-2 ever have nice fonts in gnome-terminal
(as they were in Gnome 1.4)?
Please, don’t suggest me to install Necrosoft tt fonts.
try the bitstream vera fonts at http://gnome.org/fonts they’re pretty and despite what people will tell you, they’re good 😎
> And how do I add an applet to it if I can’t select it?
Keyboard navigation is your friend. You can toggle between panels and the desktop with <ctrl><alt><tab>. When your panel is selected you can bring up the panel menu using <ctrl>f10. In Gnome-Panel 2.3.2, all non-edge panels have drag handles.
> Is there any way to shorten an icon name until you
> hover the mouse over it? (ie, display “j2sdk…” instead
> of “j2sdk-1.4.1-01-linux-i586-gcc3.2-bin.rpm (over several
> lines)?
Not to my knowledge, but I like it the way it is.
> Why is it so hard to toggle beteen showing hidden files?
> (Have to open the preferences dialog instead of selecting
> an option in the “view” menu.)
I agree, this is unnecessarily difficult. OTOH it could be argued that any editing of dot-files is power user functionality. *shrug*
> Why is there no way to edit colours without changing the
> entire theme?
Why would you want to? The colors are an integral part of the theme.
> How do I set up an icon on the desktop to mount a shared
> drive and open a filebrowser in the mounted directory?
This would be really useful. This is also in line with what Eugenia stated in the article about easier mounting of partitions. The closest thing I’m able to accomplish in Gnome is a launcher for “nautilus smb://server/share”
> Even in the configuration window, there are just so few
> options. If the option you want isn’t there, tough. I know
> it’s a legitimate criticism of KDE that there are too many
> options, at least you can find the one you want.
I feel quite the opposite. I can’t ever find anything in KDE because it’s overloaded with a zillion settings. Even the “new and improved” clock preferences are too much. For instance: why would I ever want to set the font of my clock?
Thanks for the advice about manipulating the panel. I’m glad that bug fas been fixed in the latest version.
The rest of your comment seemed to me about GNOME dictating to the user what his desktop should look like, rather than the user dictating to the desktop. I don’t know why being able to change colours or the font of the clock strikes you as something nobody would want to do. I personally want to be able to do both.
And nobody has mentioned anything about decent looking widgets. No matter what I try, I’m still stuck with plain dull grey rectangles. It beats me how anybody could say GNOME is more useable. Horses for courses, I suppose.
As somebody who uses W98 at work and OS X at home, I’m all for *nix interfaces that imitate the look and feel of those two OSes.
Yes, W98 has A LOT of (to put it politely) kludgy design, and OS X has some hangups, too.
But, looking at Eugenia’s screenshots yesterday, I saw dialog boxes with attractive design and fonts filled with options I understood. It was clear to me at a glance how to navigate the file structure, what directory she was in, how to open, save, move, rename or delete the files. It even looked like there was a simple, clear, easy to use Find function that worked, too. (That may not be true, but at least it looked that way.)
Perhaps it’s that OS X has taught me a little about *nix file structure and nameing conventions, but those screencaps for the first time put a FRIENDLY FACE on Linux. It made it look familiar and easy to use. (Okay, I know I’d be screaming and tearing my hair out when I had to hit the command line to do something like install a program.)
It gives me hope that Linux is evolving towards “plug and pray” ease of use. (Currently it seems to be “plug and pray to Cthulhu.”) This sort of clean and straightforward interface, plus the developments that I know will be coming out of India, Germany, and Spain will finally make Linux a real, fully supported, Desktop OS.
Keyboard navigation is your friend. You can toggle between panels and the desktop with <ctrl><alt><tab>. When your panel is selected you can bring up the panel menu using <ctrl>f10. In Gnome-Panel 2.3.2, all non-edge panels have drag handles.
Sounds f***ed that you need to do that to bring up a panel menu. I was in a situation like that a year ago with Gnome 2.0 on Debian, and in the end I just deleted my Gnome configs and started with a fresh desktop. If I had known those magic keys I might still be using Gnome now, but somehow pressing <ctrl><alt><tab> a few times then <ctrl><F10> isn’t the obvious thing to do.
Oh well, at least it is now fixed in the development versions… how long till 2.4 is out?
It should be fixed in 2.2.nextrelease
The screenshots were taken from Gentoo’s LiveCD on my Mac. There was no import command there, very few tools were included. No Gimp either.
I have to ask, was this review based on your experiences with this LiveCD too? If so this would most likely be the cause of your poor performance. LiveCDs are good for testing stuff out and for rescue type situations but not to give an accurate review of a piece of software, esp regarding speed of the software as more stuff has to be in ram so more stuff than usual gets pushed back to swap or ran from the cd, greatly decreasing performance.
NO. Don’t take me for some kind of a newbie, please.
I have 4 Linux distributions installed here currently, plus a FreeBSD. I just used the LiveCD to take these shots because it was the more convienient thing to do, as my Mac was next to me, and didn’t want to reboot the machine I was working on.
Good god no, this is a terrible idea. The text in the window list is USEFUL. I like to know where a terminal is before I select it. I can see whether I have new email in Evolution without ever actually switching to the Evolution window. I’d be completely lost without gaim’s message notification plugin. This is by far the worst feature of MacOS X’s design and it’d be insane to copy it.
Just for the record…there is not nor has there ever been
a 500 MHz Pentium II.
It helps your credibility if you at least know what hardware you’re reviewing an OS on, no?!
Mike Wafkowski
http://www.osheaven.net
Linux Cds and Things
That was a figure of speech to show what kind of power you need.
I run Gnome on my Dual Celeron 533, AthlonXP 1600+ 1400 Mhz and on my Cube 450 Mhz G4.
Is that good enough for you for being verbose rather than just give an example?