There seem to be many reviews on Red Hat 9.0, but all seem to be written by Linux junkies who really know their stuff. What about the MS Windows Convert? They say people like the first thing they use (i.e. if you learn to drive a manual transmission, you prefer it over automatic). If this is true, how does Red Hat 9.0 introduce a novice pc user to the world of computers? I hope to answer some of those questions in this tiny review.Editorial Notice: All opinions are those of the author and not necessarily those of osnews.com
Background
I’m an experienced Windows / OS X user who has dabbled with Linux here and there since the kernel was at about version 2.0. It’s important that I qualify the word “dabbled” with the understanding that I’ve done little more than install a version or two of the Mandrake distribution and then cleaned my system and started over with Windows. Knowing full well that the *nix platform should outperform a windows box for stability, I chose to venture into the Linux world.
Install – Part 1
I began by downloading the 3 iso files from public ftp mirrors listed at http://www.linuxiso.org/. I then burned each to a blank cd-r with Nero 5.5 (Windows 2000). Simply sticking the first cd of the set into my Pentium II, 466 with 256 MB RAM system and booting was enough to get things started.
The installation process began smoothly enough. I did a scan of my cd to make sure it didn’t contain any errors. I also created a root password, setup my mouse and keyboard, and set the correct time zone. Disk Druid made partitioning my hard drive relatively easy. I created an 8 GB ext3 primary and a 250 MB swap partition Package installation was the trickiest part of the process.
RH 9.0 does, like most distros these days, organize the different software applications (packages) into spiffy categories. I opted for the “Workstation” install. Everything began fine – software was copying, thing were installing, comical images were entertaining me at the bottom of the screen – and then the error message.
I can’t quite recall the error verbatim, but it said it had problem installing some file for Open Office. Keep in mind there was no “Skip this file” button, just a “retry” button. I reinserted the cd (which RH kindly ejected for me) and clicked “retry.” Still no luck. RH ejected my cd for me once again, only to give me another error regarding /mnt/cdrom being used on TTY2 and the cd unsuccessfully unmounting. HUH????
These kinds of error messages *might* even be considered ok in the Linux world, but the novice would seriously think something was broken. And this was a standard install! I cannot help but think my previous version of Windows installed some file, preventing the successful install of *any* Linux distribution. ;-).
A quick trip over to TTY2 (I’d dabbled enough to know how to do this) revealed what I suspected – Absolutely nothing. Being in an endless loop of unmount error messages, I did what anyone should do- I rebooted and tried again.
Install – Part 2
This time I unchecked Open Office from the package installation. I also included KDE, several other random system tools, and unchecked the games, and everything installed just fine. The installer didn’t know how much RAM was on my video card, and neither did I. I guess 8 MB. It seemed to work. Within minutes I was up and running inside the KDE interface, and peering into the desktop world of Linux.
“Oh Look,” I said as a box appeared on my taskbar. (Is that the name of it? It’s a taskbar in Windows, so that’s the terminology I’ll use here). A little red exclamation point popped up asking me to register for the Red Hat network, and to update my packages. Whoo-hoo. Windows Update for the Linux world. *NICE.* Nice I thought.
There were around 35 packages that needed to be updated once I’d created a Red Hat account. No big deal. I’m on a T1 line at work so updates shouldn’t take too long. About an hour later the package updates had finished. Now imagine that on dial-upÖor even on Cable/DSL! Talk about ridiculous. I will concede that Microsoft isn’t exactly Slim Fast when it comes to updates either, but Microsoft updates don’t take an hour to download. I think I’ll fault Red Hat servers for this one, or maybe everyone else in the world was attempting the same update at the same time I was. Who knows? It could happen.
After the updates my only gripe is that the “Red Hat Network Alert Notification Tool” window won’t close. I couldn’t find it easily in the process viewer, either. Remember, I’m a Windows guy. CTRL+ALT+DEL just offered to log me out. Grrr. So this is where I sit- with a pretty little KDE desktop and a window that won’t go away. I could reboot, but I’ll just swap over to another desktop and pretend the window isn’t there. Ah, Linux, I how I love thee. Should a problem arise – you really can ignore it sometimes.
Conclusion
Perhaps I’m giving Linux a somewhat unfair review by not purchasing documentation and RTFM before I do the install, but the problems I experienced were something quite possibly not covered in the manual. Regardless, these kinds of issues need to be addressed before Linux can break into the desktop world.
I would also like to point out that redrawing windows when moved seems a bit slow. Maybe it’s my machine, or perhaps it’s the fact that the DE’s ride on top of the X Window System; I don’t know. Definitely on the right track, though. Lots of software, nice desktop, pretty fonts. Red Hat is on the right track and with just a few glitch fixes and tweaks, Red Hat 9 may be ready for the consumer desktop market.
Ok,
Select -> point -> click middle button
Blooming heck! I almost got arthritis from all that WORK! Please, stop me from suffering this immense pain and suffering at the hands of this “evil X”!
RedHat should chose ONE desktop and completely and utterly embrace it in every possible area. Why include three news readers and numerous mail readers? Evolution for Mail, Mozilla for webbrowsing (using GTK2 + Xft) and Pan for newsreading, why would anyone need anything more than that?
By slimming back to something like 2 CD’s, it would make life alot easier, especially for those confused to which one they should use. Yes, I know it is a personal preference, however, most simply want to use what everyone else is using. Evolution 1.4 will arriving soon along with Ximian Desktop. Maybe Redhat should dump its own desktop and simply work with Ximian and use Ximian GNOME as the default desktop?
I’ll not complain about the review, since it does take guts to post a review and wait for the avalanche of flames. While others get mad about the review, I just chuckle, because I was right there myself back in ’97. RedHat 4.7. I must have installed and reinstalled a hundred times. Just when I got it working, I’d break something. Reinstall because I didn’t know how to fix it. But I stuck with it. That’s the key right there. I wanted to know what this Linux thing was, and I was determined to keep at it. Tried almost every distribution out there at one time or another. Every weekend I’d give it another go. After years of learning, I feel I’ve barely scrached the surface, but now I’m mostly MS free (one machine dual boots for gaming, and office when I’m forced into it). It was a long and frustrating climb, but it’s paying off big time now because I’m not constantly paying Uncle Bill.<BR>Hardware compatibility is extremely important, after all, most people go out of their way to insure their hardware is compatible with windows, the same applies to Linux. A quick trip to redhat.com’s HCL does wonders. Turn off your bios PNP control. If you’re a novice, go out and buy and boxed set for, if nothing else, the manuals (SuSE had the best docs back around the version six days) and cruise through them. It won’t kill you, and may even GASP help you. Google is your friend. Usenet is your friend. The Linux community is your friend (when was the last time Billg was your friend?). If you download the ISOs at least learn how to run MD5SUM. That way you’ll know if your burn was good BEFORE you start installation. Burning an ISO on windows leaves a lot to be desired and I made many a coaster until I started burning them on Linux, haven’t had a problem since. With Windows, I was limited as to what I could do by the amount of money in my wallet, with Linux everything you can think of is just a browse away. In my experience, RedHat likes RedHat RPMs, Mandrake’s urpmi will take just about anything, compiling from source may take some reading and configuration to get right, but once you get it right, its too cool and optimized to boot. Configuration files are great once you learn where they reside and what to use for an editor (gedit has worked for me). I’ve learned how to hack themes and make icons and I will guarantee you that no one has a desktop that looks like mine. I paid dearly for Photoshop but I find Gimp easier to use.<BR>All in all, I think Linux is ready for prime time. The question is, are you?
>Though the kernel is efficient in it’s resource usage, the prettier linux desktops are fat and hungry. Getting timely behavior from the KDE or Gnome desktop requires at least 40% more CPU speed and double the memory of an equivalently performing Wintel box.
Windows takes <insert_random_percentage_here> less resources.
Do resources really matter much of the time? If so, why can my PII Linux box allow me to safely burn CDs, write email and browse the web and play Ogg files without skipping in XMMS–all in the resource monster that is KDE? Or, why is it that turning off swap does not affect the stability of my Linux box–even after ripping several CDs and then leaving the box on for the next week? With normal usage (i.e. constant XMMS playing, GAIM, KMail, Mozilla-Firebird and KDE3 running 24/7), my PII450 stays around 10 – 14% usage (thanks, top). There are issues with Linux, but, by far, resource usage is not a very big one. (E.g., application startup times and UI usability are two issues that come to mind as being closer to the top for the average user.) But, yeah, there is a dropoff in response below the P200 range with KDE3.
>The X11 font rendering is as not well-smoothed as with Windows desktops back as far as Win95, although it has improved with TrueType functionality added into the xfs font server (Ximian’s XD2 desktop may make this an irrelevant point).
For the past 4 months or so, the font rendering in Linux has been very good. Xft2 and freetype make windows fonts look ugly. Those, coupled with the Bitstream Vera True Type fonts, make many of my screens look close to printed text. Imagine, even my Debian desktop (oxymoron?) has this font setup.
I just wanted to address those two myths about Linux. The latest and greatest apps do not kill your 4 year old machines, and fonts do not look bad in Linux anymore. (Of course, one can always argue that it does not matter at all until ‘my one-click-installable distro Foobar’ can do everything described.) There are problems, but those are not two of them.
>>You failed to mention, that when you inserted the RedHat CD, it asked you to do a verification check on your CDs, which I’m sure you just blindly ignored and skipped. Then when one of your CDs had problems reading open office, you ignorantly blamed Redhat instead of your bad CDs. I am an experienced user, and I know from experience that you should always check your CDs before installing. <<
Dude ! Did you READ the article?
Quote: ” I did a scan of my cd to make sure it didn’t contain any errors.”
Kinda blows your theory as well as others who posted before you the same thing.
FWIW, I have a machine (i810) that most distros will install on without an issue. I can take CDs of one particular distro that install perfectly fine on other machines and it will fail when trying to install OpenOffice.org. Does this mean there is a problem with the CDs? The install is fine on other equipment. BTW: The CDs are MDK 9.1 and have worked flawlessly on about 8 other machines
Just a coincidence that it fails on OOo.
Now, the author should take his CDs to another machine (with different hardware) and try the install. If it is fine then would you state it was the CDs or his hardware?
just one thought i don’t understand what the author didn’t like about the error maybe he preffered the microsoft way error 11102230 in hex code the no one can understand cause no one got the source code maybe for noobie it’s hard to understand the error but again a little search and u found the error message very informetive.
I beleive the author is a little off on the update part. First of all I work on Windows machines on a dailey basis and I also have a full T1 line and it can take up to 1 to 2 hours to fully patch a machine. You can not compare how fast Microsoft updates are to Redhat unless you truley benchmark them. Another thing do you even have a full T1 or is less than a T1 speed and is it being policed by the ISP. Another thing due to network traffic on that line and during certain times of the day can slow this process down.
I’ve been using Redhat 8.0 and have downloaded udates w/no problems as far as how long it takes to update my system. Let us not forget that we all tend to get a little impatient and windows users tend to be more so. And we all know the sayin patients is like a virtue, haste makes waste!
I haven’t had the chance to try the latest Suse, but I have tried Mandrake 9.1 and Redhat 9. The installs were equally easy but I would Mandrake the cup for newbie distro right now. Mandrake was a little faster than redhat, the install is better and partitioning is so much better in Mandrake. Redhat was also annoying the hell out of me with its update program. One thing I experienced in both distros was the first time I booted KDE, I would be opening an application and the computer would just freeze, I don’t know what the hell was up with that. But if I were a newbie, despite Redhat having a bigger reputation, I think props should be handed to Mandrake. Mandrake is for the desktop, Redhat is for the server.
I do feel the author of this articles pain in regard to ISOs and burning. I have had some errors. Just go to ebay and you can get any distro for about $10 delivered. So far I have been using RH 8. I had no problems with anything. It recognised my sound, video, external modem, mouse, you name it. Mandrake i have tried and didn’t like (it wouldn’t recognise the modem even after I tried assigning the port to each COM port). I have Suse on order, hopefully arriving today. I would tell the author don’t give up. I am trying to get deeper into linux and understand how it works. I will never go back to Windows because with OpenOffice you can work on things at home, save them in Word format and them work on them at work. Plus Linux just works better.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, “Nice try on your first review.” It must be a first try since it contains several obvious rookie mistakes.
One: You didn’t say how many megabytes were in your updates. That leaves us with no way to evaluate what you say.
Two: You call yours a “standard install” but give us no explanation. We’re left to deduce whether it’s stand-alone or dual boot, for instance.
Three: In a review, you really can’t indulge in unsupported speculation. For example, it’s unfair to excuse your ignorance by saying, “. . . quite possibly not covered in the manual.” You must be able to tell us for sure whether it is or not.
After such mistakes it seems unjustified for you to presume to judge the software. Who can give your opinions any weight when you don’t do what’s required to back them up?
Still, nice try. Your style and your use of language are adequate. You just need to do more preparation.
j
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, “Nice try on your first review.” It must be a first try since it contains several obvious rookie mistakes.
One: You didn’t say how many megabytes were in your updates. That leaves us with no way to evaluate what you say.
Two: You call yours a “standard install” but give us no explanation. We’re left to deduce whether it’s stand-alone or dual boot, for instance.
Three: In a review, you really can’t indulge in unsupported speculation. For example, it’s unfair to excuse your ignorance by saying, “. . . quite possibly not covered in the manual.” You must be able to tell us for sure whether it is or not.
After such mistakes it seems unjustified for you to presume to judge the software. Who can give your opinions any weight when you don’t do what’s required to back them up?
Still, nice try. Your style and your use of language are adequate. You just need to do more preparation.
j
I actually had the same issue when install RH 9 when it comes to OpenOffice. When I discovered the problem, I downloaded the ISO for disc 1 from a different FTP and the issue did not occure again. Probably just an issue with the ISO from that FTP (we may have used the same, but alass, I have forgotten which one I used.)
OK, how many people here have had problems installing ANY OS? Wow, that’s a lot. I have had my share of problems with Linux, as well as with Windows. But you know what? That doesn’t tell you much about a system. You install once, for the most part. How is the system when you use it? Sure, Linux installers have gotten a lot better than they used to be, and that is important. But let’s get real for a second. How many people go out and purchase a Windows OS and install it? (note I said purchase) Not many. You get it pre-installed on your machine when you buy it, MS has made sure of that. If you have a copy to install yourself, it is probably a copy you borrowed or got elsewhere. I know a guy who builds PCs, and he always has one problem or another with Windows (2000 and XP). It is part of the game.
So you want to rag on Linux installers, go ahead. All installers have issues at one time or another, they have to deal with so many different components. That is such a small piece of the big picture when it comes to an OS. Want to check out Linux without installing it? Get the latest version of Knoppix, and use it. You can even install it to your hard drive if you like it enough, which I am sure you will.
something i don’t understand is: when you download the iso, why did you not check the md5 sum of the iso? normaly there is a md5sum file in each red hat iso download location.
cheers
SteveB
The author of this review is an ignorant
“I’m an experienced Windows / OS X user who has dabbled with Linux here and there since the kernel was at about version 2.0.”
You know how to click — BRAVO— Stay with windows then. I have had it just enough by reading the second paragraph.
And what is this
“Perhaps I’m giving Linux a somewhat unfair review by not purchasing documentation and RTFM before I do the install, but the problems I experienced were something quite possibly not covered in the manual.
“Somewhat unfair “do not explain yourself, this review is plain and stupid and that’s end of it.
I am not going to waste my time and teach you how review should look like.
I don’t believe Red Hat 9 is or it will be ready for the desktop in the near future. Look at its multimedia capabilities: it can’t play anything because of the patents and stuff. Unless they address these issues no newbie will ever use RedHat on their desktop. For a user coming from windows it offers nothing other than an easy installer. Mandrake and Suse are getting much closer to conquer the desktop market. Suse also has some multimedia problems due to same patents. From all distros I tried the only one that does everything for me is Mandrake. It’s possible that other newbie distributions like Lindows, Xandros and Lycoris may do the same thing. I haven’t tried them yet. In conclusion i see no point of such a review since RedHat it just ain’t there.
you guys are morons … you should all reread the article cuz obviously you aren’t reading correctly. The author has made it quite clear that this is about the AVERAGE Windows user SHIFTING over to Linux, and just some of the problems that they might encounter. Instead all the Linux know it alls pounce with all their “devs” and KDE’s and what-nots, and still not get the message. Here let me explain it for you, the average Windows user doesn’t know what the hell dev means, won’t know how to compile, and sure as hell won’t know how to partition a harddrive to set up a swap partition, and doesn’t know KDE and GNOME are desktop enviroments. You all attack cuz someone is slandering your beloved OS, and then you go for the big sell. Linux is free … apps are free … this and that are free, and M$ is all about taking your money, and it’s M$’s fault that every hackercracker etc. etc. in world love to search for holes in M$ software just cuz right now … in their small minds, it’s fun to kick Gate’s in the balls. In other words, they don’t have a life, they like to bully people hidden away behind the .net, and enjoy making people as miserable as they are. Linus is God … Gates is the devil cuz he is making billions off of unsuspecting users. Funny … how everyone is making money on Linux except Linus, and no one flames the distros for being unfair to the guy, and other than RedHat … give the poor guy some of the money for all his hard work. It’s free, and that’s all that matters … in saying so … how many of you are working for free? I’m sure your boss’ would really appreciate it if you all go in tomorrow, and insist that from now on … you’re no longer accepting a paycheck … you’re working for free. Live up to your Linux motto … live the paupers life, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. Nevertheless, I’ve seen Red Hat selling Linux at $60 up to $120 CDN … that pretty damned expensive considering that your mostly paying for the the documents that are included. Oh sure the AVERAGE Window user can d/l it for free but here’s the unfortunate part … most ppl don’t have broadband. Those that do have broadbanf don’t have hours or days to figure out all these intricacies about Linux, that you have all made quite clear, you already know or have taken the time to learn. Strangely enough, the AVERAGE user has more cumbersome things to worry about … say mortgages, children, bills etc. etc. No one wants to sit by a computer for hours or even days trying to figure out configurations … which packages to install, and everything else that is needed to make Linux work. Most people have a life, and that means they want to enjoy their free time doing things other than trying to figure out Linux or Windows for that matter, and by the way … if you really want people to switch to Linux … get rid of all these distros cuz again, most people don’t have the bandwith to d/l every distro, just to figure out which one is the best for them. Plus just by reading this, I now know that there is a Redhat distro along with Mandrake, Knoppix, SUSE, and Gentoo, and then if you do a Google search … i’ve come across another dozen of so distros. Here’s the funny part, none of you hard core Linux users can agree to which is the best. If the average user were to listen to any of you … they would have to buy each distro at $60 CDN a pop just to get the documents to help in set up. Or they can download each distro and then spend hours on the .net emailing all of you for pointers just to figure out the ins and out of installation. They have to give up hours of their free time … forget about traveling … just to learn Linux, and then somehow its the AVERAGE users fault for being impatient cuz all they really want is IM, EMAIL and an OFFICE app that works. In the end, the AVERAGE user is better off buying a system that is already configured. Buying all these distros, that you all profess is the best package to install, is far more expensive than Windows Home or Pro and Office put together. Like i said … you can’t even agree to which is the best, and in the end the AVERAGE user can just buy Win XP knowing that everything will install and in the end it will run even though once in a while, just like Linux … something will go wrong with the OS. It’s life, and life sometimes throws you a curve ball … ya just have to learn to accept it.
P.S. regardless of whether you pay for something or get it free … in the end either will have its own particular pitfalls. You make the best of it, and most certainly you don’t whine like a baby just cuz your offended by what people say. If you like Linux … good for you … if you like Windows … good for you.
BTW … i use a Mac OSX cuz i’m sure some of you will accuse me of being a Windows loyalist, and as you may have noticed this is the only time i’ve mentioned the Mac. Whether it’s better or worse than Linux or Windows or whatever OS any of you prefer … i really don’t care.
I am also an experienced windows user who has thought about installing linux several times (I have installed several distros in the past, only to uninstall them after a short time). I am patiently waiting for the time when I feel linux is “ready” (always a subjective term) for the desktop and I appreciate articles like yours. Thanks.
Ahhh well, I understand your frustration and know exactly where you’re coming from. Red Hat 9.0 really needs some work. I’ve installed both Red Hat 9.0 and Mandrake 9.1, let me tell you first hand Mandrake is a lot more user friendly during and after the install. It also has more current releases of OpenOffice and Mozilla and the system utilities are far superior.
How about you do show me how to write? Please being by using complete sentences with proper grammar. Please define “an ignorant” for me as well. I was unable to find where the noun form of the adjective “ignorant” was in fact, “ignorant.” You could also try leaving personal attacks out of this.
Sheesh. Some people.
And muchos thanks to everyone who appreciated what I tried to do and said so.
There is no Pentium II 466. PII’s stopped at 450MHz, right where PIII’s picked up.
I have not read the other 250 replies. I will add this: Ihad problems installing RedHat 8 on my laptop, and I have done many, many linux installs. After trying a few times, I tried a copy of Mandrake 9
That was all it took. After running that for two days on my laptop I swtichde both my destkops to Mandrake 9.
I think that it is a little unfair to judge Linux on one install of one distro. In particular RedHat. This may be the most popular, but it is really only popular in the server market. Mandrake, SuSE and Debian really have the desktop market in mind. I recently updagraded to Madrake 9.1 frmo 9.0, and from what I have seen, on my desktops, there is no turning back.
Want to give Linux a try without all the fear of partitioning? Try Knoppix. Runs beautifully booted off a CD. No install needed. Want Windows back? Reboot without the CD in the tray. How easy is that for an install?
Debian for the desktop?
WHAAHAHAHAHA, sorry 🙂
I have not been able to install any redhat version on my computer since 7.3. Anaconda crashes every time. This time it was sig11. Other times it’s something else.
Gentoo 1.2 was no problem, Suse 8.2, no problem. It’s a sad state of affairs that the largest distributor of linux can not write an installer that doesn’t crash 1 minute into the install process.
/jarek
firstly get used of the fact that redhat isnt windows ;D
secondly red hat installs fine if you have non corrupted iso images and cd’s
thirdly the redhat network isnt that slow, because here in ozland we have 512K dsl and updates dont take that long
and with m$ windowz u cant upgrade your whole system so, u cant compare windows update to redhat network update
fithly cds unmount fine in redhat with the standard automounter unless your cds are broken, like yours are
sixthly redhat redraws windows fine, if your be your hardware setup or the way its configured
you create a 8gig / partition yet a 250meg swap file, in the manuals and even during the installing it would bitch and tell you to make it twice that of your ram atleast
you cant burn proper cds or do some light reading of manuals/howtos/faqs yet u sit in your chair and bitch about the redhat installer
atleast know your linux stuff before you write reviews, that dont make sense
you should be using gnu/linux neways what the hell is wrong with you
REd
The first time I tried to install an OS (Windows 98), I screwed it up pretty good, but eventually, I got so that I knew what I was doing, and my opinion is that Red Hat is far easier to install than Windows. (Well 98 anyway… still the only Windows I’ve ever installed, and probably always will be.)
Both Installs are pretty straightforward, but Red Hat has the advantage of no propriety hoops to jump through. With 98, there was a long serial number to type it (which I don’t think I ever got right on the first try) and because it was an upgrade, I had to supply proof that I owned a previous edition of Windows. With Xp, I am given understand that an online (or telephone) registration is required, and all future reinstalls (you’re only allowed a certain number) must be approved by somebody in Redmond.
Also, I think that nowadays, you’re going to want to actually understand the End User Liscence Agreement before you install. The EULAs are getting longer and longer these days. For example, the RealONE player now comes with a 9100 word EULA (I counted them with MS Word), This is slightly longer than “Macbeth”– and you don’t get a chance to see it until AFTER you’ve downloaded that particular bloated abomination. I’ve read that the XP EULA involves giving Microsoft the right to check and update your system at will, without ever telling you. I would certainly want to know everything that’s in there before I signed the keys to my hard drive over to Microsoft. So you’re going to need to factor in some extra study time. In fact, you might want to show the agreement to your lawyer.
Also, this may no longer apply, but unlike any version of Red Hat I’ve every used, Windows 98 won’t boot off the CD ROM. In order to install it you need a floppy startup disk, and then you have to type a couple of commands to really get the ball rolling. With most computers in Red Hat, or any of the more desktop oriented versions of Linux, you set the boot sequence, put in the CD, and from that point on you the process is pretty self explantory.
I’ve installed RH9+sgiXFS just the other day and everything went fine. I’ve installed every version of RH since 6.2, same with SuSE 6.x-8.2, Mandrake 7.x-9.1, Slackware 7-9, Debian, Gentoo & blah blah blah the list goes on. If you get a bad CD, there’s nothing you can do about it excepct get another one. You downloaded it for FREE, do it again and check the CD. RH even has a check program when you first boot up. Not to hard to use, (click here, stick CD here, click………) Do it!
I’ve had Windows 2k & XP not want to install on hardware, when it does, I had to end up loading drivers from 10 CD’s and rebooting 13 times! (you get the point) Let me guess, when Winblows said this driver wont work, did you shut it down and go back to Atari 2600? No, you READ the doc’s and had to figure it out. Oh, maybe you didn’t, maybe you just called your friend who knew what he or she was doing. If that’s the case, stick to Win and leave GNU/Linux alone. Buy your prefab box with Windows on it and when it crashes in a month or two, bring it back to the store and get a new one.
I knew there was a reason I didn’t like fanatics of OSes. Mac fanatics have always come across like “Apple will own the world” kinda thing, but some of the hardcore linux users are so uber elitist that they forget about the NORMAL people.
I understand that problems happen. Problems happen with Windows installs too. I get that. I get the fact that most Windows users never installed their OS, it came pre-loaded with tons of AOL and other junk when they bought their pc.
But let’s say that user is given a second box by some relative, and that relative says “I’m keeping my license for Windows 95. You’ll have to buy your own” and then this user remembers “Hey…what about that Linux thing I read about….”
So said user then downloads a copy of RH 9 (cuz it’s free, and they’ve actually heard of Red Hat). Said user then attempts to do an install, including checking the cd for errors. <insert rest of article here>
The whole point of the article IS NOT TO COMPLAIN. Some *nix people get so defensive about their precious GNUed open-sourced multiple-dotted version-numbered kerneled out operating systems that when someone tries to write a fairly objective article about above said user, they go ballistic.
Get this folks: I like linux. Linux *does* have many points where it needs improvement. It *also* has many places where it far surpasses the Microsoft alternative.
The point of the article, as previously mentioned, is not to say “Read all of the Linux documentation out there, become an alpha geek, and then you can try to install RH 9.0.” No, the point of the article was to simply display some of the issues *I* encountered while installing RH 9.0. It’s quite possible that above said user will encounter similar problems, is it not? Who knows. There are too many things that could happen. The install could go smooth as silk with every package under the sun and said user would never have a single problem. WONDERFUL!
The average newbie is *not* going to even KNOW WHERE TO LOOK for documentation, until they get the stinkin OS installed. Heh. I’ve seen “linuxiso.org” mentioned on tv shows before that NON-TECHNICAL, NON-LINUX people watch. How would they know anything more than to download the isos? Heck, they might not even know how to do that much. It’s ENTIRELY possible.
No OS is perfect. No OS does it all. I like linux. I like windows for some things. (games). I’m more comfy with ‘doze, but that isn’t going to stop me from trying every positive suggestion you guys have given me: try < insert distro >, submit < insert bug > , etc.
I don’t even expect the average windows user to give up after the first failed attempt at *ANY* install. I just think more articles need to make aware some of the pitfalls users could encounter.
For all this is worth, how about if some Linux fanatic (who is a Windows newbie, if that’s possible), write an article on some of the problems that particular type of user might encounter installing and using Windows for the first time. I’m completely open to that.
Constructive awareness is all I’m aiming at. Thanks so much for all of you who recognized that, and have given such great advice.
ps. My machine specs are close to that…will double check cpu speed. Also, I was using the ‘demo’ RHN account, so RH may have throttled my bandwidth. And yes folks, it *did* take that long…and other downloads on other machines went blazin fast….so my external connection was runnin fine. Maybe just a fluke? I dunno. Won’t stop me from doin it again!
::is off to try Knoppix on another machine::
To keep it simple, all one has to do is lurk a few days in these NG’s: microsoft.public.windows98.general and microsoft.public.windowsxp.general , once there a day or two, one will see that there’s just as many *installation* problems/questions with those OS’s.
Another unfair statement, about the ‘updating’…how long does it take a dial-up user to download even the ‘mini’ version of SP1? Too long! Then, there’s all the other ‘hotfixes’ one has to wander through, and take a *lot* of time just deciding which ones to trust enough to even download at all. Then comes the time to download them.
Now I’m willing to bet, that the Mandrake update thing that showed up, gave the user the *choice* of what to download and what not to download (or download some things later). Also, if it was a desktop environment, like KDE that needed the ‘updating’, then that should have been left started right before one goes to sleep for the night. It’s simple common sense.
All in all, I’ve noticed just as many ‘install’ problems/questions for Linux, as I have for windoze, and if a windows user is too afraid to say they’re ‘too dumb’ to want to try and get past installation problems, then why do they put up with the same crud with their *windoze* installation problems? It’s *all* BS, and Linux is ready for *anyone* who has the use of more than .005% of their brain, thing is, I don’t think sheep use but .00005 of their brain, there’s where any *real* problems lie…not with any ‘installation’ of an OS.
Two points:
One: Regardless of your protestations, you did not write an objective review.
Two: Among the prople going ballistic here, you rate near the top.
As slapdash as your review was, your ranting after getting a few criticisms is worse. I doubt that you have actually examined the responses with an eye to learning anything. It’s disingenuous to pretend that you were just trying to help. If that were the case you would have put in a little more effort in the first place.
Still, as I said earlier, it was fair for a first attempt at writing a review. Pay attention to the response and try to make your next one better.
j
Okay so what you guys are saying is that linux just isnt as good as windows..Heres my recap
4 years ago i hear about linux. I go buy redhat 6.? put in in the cd and do a workstation class install. I have no sound, my hard drive will not work, and my win modem will not work.
I take my cheap e machines box to a local computer store and get it online. My wife was pissed because I totally delted windows and had no backup. My wife of 6 months lost her resume etc….Then i get my box back and begin to explore linux. I loved it. I couldn’t do jack with it, but i loved it. I then realized that problem wasnt with linux but with the strangle hold microsoft had on the hradware manufacturers. So I did a duel boot then the hardware started coming along and I quit windows and my wife stayed with it. After two years she quit windows entirly too.
Numerous continuous upgrades and various flavors and we are now on a Box I built by hand
80 gb hard drv
soundblaster live!
GeForce 4 Graphics Card
Amd 2400+ Processor
etc….etc… belss whistles w00t!
It runs solely on RedHat 9 and my wife and i are VERY happy with it! Also my dad now runs linux, my sister, and everyone else i can convince to switch over. Easy or not I leraned a lot. If it were easy it wouldnt be worth it. I think actually Linux is easier now than windows. At least i can do what I want with my os. I use my box for gaming and browing, photos, writhing, etc.. Its productive. Not free but free from microsoft. Amen. Good luck and keep pluging away.
Why didn’t Mr. Collins let the RH installer do the partitioning, which it offers to do? It would’ve set the swap partition to the size the manual that he didn’t bother to read recommends, which, if memory serves, is twice the size he set it to. (It also seems odd that he writes “I did a scan of my CD…” when he burned three CDs.)
I have a “demo” account. With a demo account, RHN tends to be hard to get onto, but once there, things proceed at a respectable speed. I’ve never had a hang during installation such as Mr. Collins describes, save once when installing on an FIC PA-2013 “Super Socket 7” motherboard. I had to tell it not to use DMA, and then all proceeded normally.
I don’t think the author is alone on the failed openoffice install. I had similar problems with the media I bought for Redhat 7.3 and 8. It took me a couple of installs to get things working. Maybe it comes down to the hardware in my PC, I dunno. But it’s definitely annoying, and the CDROM never is problematic in any other situation.
I know a few others who’ve had similar problems, and I’ve never had the problem when installing from an ISO (Redhat 9). Mebbe there’s a real quality control issue here?
I’ve been using only Linux (Mandrake 9.1 download) for about 2 weeks now; I truly think everyone should now give Linux a try: it is just as easy to do things in linux now as it is in windows: connect to the web, listen to music, burn cds, write documents (and still be able to open/write Word documents) etc etc…do all those things people 95% of the time do when they use their computers…..and it is free. Now the more i think about it the more seductive/inhibriating the idea of how Linux was concieved becomes…just by people volunteering their time to write code…just because they enjoy doing it. And out of that comes an Operating system that is just as easy to use as Windows XP and super stable. Why would i ever pay for microsoft software now?? i absolutely don’t see the reason….
Many people, perhaps including the author, tend to compare installing Linux to pre-installed Windows, which is the only way the vast majority of Windows users ever see it. They may eventually try to do a Linux install and, for the most part, they don’t have anything meaningful to compare with since they have never done any Windows install. They then falsely conclude that Linux is harder to install than Windows when what they are really finding is that installing is more difficult than not installing.
The only valid comparison is to install Linux AND Windows – then decide which is more difficult. I have done both many times for years and for some time now I have found that Linux is easier to install than Windows – which is impressive because Microsoft gets to “cheat” by enjoying the cooperation of hardware vendors which Linux often does NOT have, certainly to the same extent as Microsoft.
Overall, Linux gets my vote, resoundingly, over Windows.
Regarding mum or grandma installing RH9 – really?? When they got a computer, did you hand them a Win95 or Win98 CD and sit back to watch the fun as they searched for network drivers, video card drivers, drivers for the MS keyboard, MS intellimouse (hey, in 2000 all the hardware was newer than the OS)
Or is it more likely that you built the machine, installed the OS and apps and then handed it over?
I just built a new PIV machine for my folks, and they’re getting RH9 with it. More secure, more apps, more modern, less headaches for me.
I don’t think the issue is whether ‘mom’ or ‘gran’ can install an OS, it’s whether they can find their way around it afterwards. I’m betting they can.
Just wanted to add that I use Windows on my main PC. (I develop apps in VStudio, and am currently investigating running it under VMWare.)
Rather than dual boot with Linux, I’ve installed a succession of RH distros (from 6.2 up) to a second machine kept just for that purpose. Call it a learning machine, whatever. Now it’s my web server and firewall, and I’ve just finished putting Gentoo onto my main box (dual boot). Very, very nice once it’s set up. I’m busy making PII binaries, and hopefully I’ll be able to make up an install CD for the other 4 machines in the house.
I never had a single problem installing redhat 9. But I actually brought the CD’s.
I think maybe you couldn’t install open office because there was an error on the cd you writen.
I told the install to automatically partition, which it did fine.
And in my opinion Redhat picks up hardware much better than a windows install. I’ve installed different versions of windows many times, and on many machines, and its never picked up every piece of hardware by itself. I never needed to change anything.
As you can tell, i like it. Now what happened with the offer of a free redhat?
I, too, am a long time Windows person. MCP in NT 4, and MCSE in 2000. I am not a novice with regards to computers by any stretch of the imagination. Having said this, I must say that I have been learning Linux for a year, and I still can only do the basics. It took several installs of this product to finally get it right in one shot. The real confusion came when I would finish one install, and the sound wouldn’t work, then I would reinstall it and the sound would work. Mandrake seemed to be the easiest for a Windows user to conform to, but now that I have Red Hat 9, I can say that this is the product that could quite possibly put a huge dent in Windows O/S market here in the United States. It already has put a dent in the Europe market. But you still need to make things more gui intuitive as well as keeping the command line approach as strong as it is. Don’t stop now.
this review just upset my stomach. the fact is that installation process of major linux distros (RH, Mdk, SuSE to name a few) is much easier and less time consuming than that of Windows. let me ask you, how many times do you have to reboot your system to get that darn thing up and running?
more importantly, I didn’t find this review fair or unbiased at all. after all, the reviewer admittedly says he is a “Windows guy.” if you are content with your MS box and don’t want to learn new tool, you shouldn’t write negative comments on a product based on your limited experience of installing it only on ONE system. negative reviews like this one will discourage those windows users who want to switch or try out other OSs and help MS to maintain its monopoly.
I’ve installed RH 8 to current 9.1 on my PC and never had a problem. if you downloaded ISO images without bothering paying some $30 to RH, then you better know what you are doing. should the reviewer made sincere attempts to proactively understand what he is dealing with instead of arrogantly call himself a Windows user, this review could’ve been more informative and worthwhile. however, if the review is concluded by saying, “I’m a windows user, and installation of RH with CD-Rom I got for FREE from ftp was troublesome and therefore RH is not quite ready for desktop,” the review simply is worthless. oh, by the way, did he ever mentioned MP3/multimedia issues on RH? I don’t think so.
I am a long time Windows user who switched to Linux. am I a programmer? no. am I engineer? no. I don’t have tech background and I’ve been using linux purely for my desktop & laptop uses. I’ve installed several distros (RH, MDK, SuSE, Deb, Slack, etc) and I’ve settled with SuSE for a while. the reason for switch? I can’t keep driving a (junk) car with locked engine compartment by the name of proprietary.
I was taken aback by this poor review (“disgusted” is more accurate to my feeling) because I do know how RH installation goes and what switching means for Windows users –it was not troublesome to say the least. yes, you may need to learn something new to use linux, but did you not learn anything new to use Windows when it first came out? it is scary that people are so accustomed to using windows that they believe that Ctrl+Alt+Del is one of the innate computing abilities human beings are given at birth. to them learning other OSs is as difficult and painful as religious conversion.
while this review focuses primarily on installation of RH, it is not appropriate to conclude that RH is not ready for MS users or for desktop. IMHO, all the arguments about linux not being ready for desktop or for non-tech users is nonsense. there are sevearal polished distros for desktop users with no-little tech background. sure, unfortunately we don’t have linux compatible spyware yet. maybe we should use WINE to run spyware, shouldn’t we? sorry, we don’t have BSOD either. for that you need to dual-boot with 98.
as I said, if you are happy with your Clippy OS and are biased toward MS already, you should not bother writing neg reviews on other OS. if the purpose of the review is to put mud on RH and discourage joesixpack windows users from trying alternatives, you might have succeeded. but doing so is unfair and not worth your/readers’ time.
Have some years Linux experience behind my back and must say that the author MUST get another distro for a first try (Mandrake or SuSE). RedHat do not target the “mortal” user and although I use RehHat8.0 on almost all of my mashines I plan to swich distro at the end of the year. Imagine the authors attempts to watch video or play mp3. Disaster I would call it. One gets a 3 disks distro and he/she SHOULD get all the software he needs included in the cd set. RedHat do not do that. They have the corporate users in target and forget about me and you who like to use Linux at home too.
I’d like to add that RH Updater, while not the best tool you could get, benefits from the linux platform. Unless there has been a kernel update, you won’t have to reboot.
I recently installed Win XP on a computer and it took me 2hours at least to get it updated. I had to reboot several times, and in a particular order so everything would just work.
All in all, I’d say that we’re pretty even with MS on this topic. RH Updater may take a long time but at least you can do something else while it is running. Windows update may be faster (probably because of the network bandwidth as rightfully mentionned) but you have to keep an eye on the whole process.
I recently tried to install (boxed) Red Hat 7.3 on an old Toshiba laptop which previously had Win 95/ 98 and then SuSE 7.3. Anaconda hung. There was nothing “wrong” with the CDs. I properly installed it in Virtual PC inside my mac. Red Hat 8.0 did install properly on the laptop, though. I never went to RH 9. I was somewhat confused by the configuration tools after using SuSE’s Yast. Needless to say I ended up going back to SuSE (I’ve heard Linus uses it too).
However, I’ve been blown away after trying Libranet 2.8. It’s Debian at the core. The installation is not as pretty as the big boys’ (uses ncurses, I think) but is fast and so far has been flawless on the three machines I’ve tried it on. One of these previously had SuSE 8.1. The sound/network on my Sony RX741 were integrated and SuSE 8.1 required pci=BIOS to enable them. I had to look this up on the net (PCI bus missing boot error). Libranet required no such extra parameters. It ran out of the “box”. Another thing that puzzled me was HD throughput. I managed to double it on the Sony/SuSE with hdparm (2.96 MB/sec to 5.9 MB/sec, still pretty bad values). However, under Libranet it went up TENFOLD without even messing around with hdparm (34 MB/sec). I don’t know why/how. I can’t compain, though. See
http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html
Libranet’s configuration tool is also very simple/easy on the user/intuitive and the Synaptic package manager shows me the 12,000 or so available debian packages that I can just click on and download at will. I’ve never seen anything this easy on RedHat or SuSE. And there’s no RPM dependency hell…
Needless to say, I’m sticking with Libranet and Debian based distros in the future…
Although I can’t say I’ve been that unlucky, I always have a tiny frustration when I read those things – because, try as they might, RH is a server distro, no snake (anaconda) wrapped around it will make it different in the near future.
– Next thing about bloat, I couldn’t agree more ! If linux distros can’t make everything fit on 1 CD (and its shouldn’t even be full !) Then move-on to something else. I mean let’s face the fact folks : QNX can give you a booting system, with GUI, basic notepad, browser, dialup, tiny_towers game, ..etc on 1 single floppy (check it out – it’s too cool). So if Linux can’t cut the mustard on 1 CD with is – how many time more MBs.
C’mon.
You may think I am a Linux-basher – au contraire !
I have used (and still do) Storm2000 on my server unit (P166). Corel on my laptop (PII_366) and Xandros on my main unit – Dell_PIII_800. I have tinkered with other distros -too many to name, but Mandrake, Suse and RH have left me cold in that they are huge/slow and no more fully featured, stable, usable than the ones I use.
=> The ones I use are a cinch to install, not 1 type (that is appropriate to the level of the OS : meaning don’t install Xandros on a P100 / or / Storm/Corel on a P4_2.4Ghz) has faild on me yet.
The only thing 1 must do on storm / corel is add : k_aim, OpenOffice, and some other little utilities – but basically it’s all there.
{Hint download those independantly and burn them on a CD – both Lnx/M$ versions) you can always help somebody out that way …}.
Honestly – do you really need all those editors : joe, pico, vi, vim, …ad nauseam. I use vi or kedit. If you are a gnome type – then I guess it’s vi & gedit. Add the one you want trash the other. Kill Bloat !
& unfortunately we have lost another convert – and may yet lose more ….
S.
________________________________________
XandrOS.
Simple. Powerful. Linux.
John, I agree with the premise of your article. I have used Windows for years but after reading a book about Open Source about 2 years ago I really want to get to know Linux… and so I have been investing time & effort to get to know it. I think a problem with Linux is, no doubt in my mind, it is a bit more confusing and less intuitive than Windows. But, you should read the Human Interface Guide, published by GNOME http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/
It basically aims to increase usability of the GNOME DE by creating uniform guidelines for applications. I have read some of their discussions, and they really put some thought into everything a typical user would do, they have even done population studies. So, I have no doubt that Linux will get better and better, and easier and easier and as more and more people get involved the pace of change will increase as well. I think by GNOME 3 you will see many of the currently discussed suggestions put into place and many more of the common linux apps hig-ified… in short, making use of them intuitive, consistent and above all, easy.
If you want to help, submit bugs. I personally have submitted some of the lamest bugs on earth to redhat. One of them I said that the icon for Help -> Contents menu was a book when the norm in most other apps was a lifesaver. And the shortcut key he used was Ctrl+H, where the HIG says it should be F1. I got him to fix both… and I can’t wait until RawHide when I get to see how my input, however small, made a change to make RedHat just that little more sparkly and consistent.
Sorry, one last comment. The way we do things in Oz…
I have never believed that the way to win people over is to bag the enemy. Rather, you should expound the virtues of whatever it is you are trying to promote. MS bashers, Linux bashers, either side. To Linux bashers, my fellow brothers, please stop saying how unstable, insecure Windows is but rather work to make Linux even more stable and more secure.
Just like in cricket you should let the ball and bat do the talking. And please, if you are a developer in any way, please read the hig and make life a little easier for folks like me.
John, all Linux distros are different in how they support their product, of course. Checking out the web site before installing is usually good, along with reading the installation instructions.
I have to admit, the Red Hat site is not particularly good in that respect – being able to find the latest installer issues, etc. The best i’ve seen is Yellow Dog Linux, but that’s for PPC hardware only. They have a great support area where you can go and easily find that latest dope.
I know people have been slamming you here but, in my posts, all I’ve tried to do is reiterate that people should check things out as much as they can before installing. I’m glad you submitted you article – despite the crap you’ve had to take, it has been the source of some good discussion. Thanks for submitting it!
Look at blog for notes on a system i put together for my aunt. She is a very novice pc user, windows is her only experience. Her k62-450 bit the dust, and I scroungd up a machine from friend for her, a Dell p2-350, 6GHD, 128M Ram, internal nic, and a netgear nic.
The install went flawless the first time. I knew I did not want KDE, but Gnome, and I included OpenOffice. Ran well, Mozilla would start in like 30 seconds, same for Open Office. Once they got going, apps were usable. ANd onlyu one at a time
When used with a cable modem, this was a very capable surfing, letter writing, java card playing machine. She had no problems and enjoyed her time with the machine.
The router we had bit the dust, so within 30 minutes or so I had enables IPMASQ, and her machine was not the router in their house so my mom and her could both surf.
I did end up getting her an XP1800 machine a few weeks later (with XP Home grrr) but she did quiz me on all the aps she would lose going back to windows.
I think a lot of times, windows users first instlal will go onto a retired old machine that could not run XP or ME very well either. Remember that the Gnome developers and KDE developers are targeting modern machines with a lot of the eye candy, so YMMV with p2-266’s and k2-400’s.
The OpenOffice error is most likely due to bad install CDs. There is an option in the installer enabling you to do a verification of the CDs – use it.
Better yet, try and get the CDs from a more reliable source than LinuxISO. The closer to the origin (redhat.com) the better.
If, instead of running the KDE environment, you were running the default Red Hat GUI, that annoying window probably wouldn’t happen.
Remember, KDE is the second option with Red Hat. There’s a lot more testing from the Q/A team at Red Hat for their default GUI than for KDE. So, if you’re using KDE, do it so at your own risk and don’t blame RH for the issues.
In actual fact, i prefer the default GUI because it masks the differences between Gnome and KDE. There is no reason why such an artificial difference should be inflicted on the poor user. I wouldn’t even pay attention to the “Red Hat crippled KDE” crackpot bunch.
Sorry to hear of your bad experience installing RHL9.0. Maybe you just had a bad CD to work with.
My personal experience with RHL9.0 had been very satisfiying. Red Hat 9.0 has been a real joy to use on my old Dell Dimension T600r. 9.0 has moved to CUPS support from the onset, so there’s no need to switch. The Gnome GUI is gorgeous and Mozilla serves as an excellent browser and e-mail client.
I’ve had problems with prior installations and several of these “difficulties” resulted from my tinkering with the amount a swap space I allocated (including Mandrake and SuSE).
To a Windows refugee like myself, Linux is a powerful OS at the command line level. You can copy a CD (thanks to Mike Reed, OSNews, 4.22.03); burn data and audio CDs with cdrecord and sox; download digital images with gphoto2; and use a very functional text editor in VIM.
I have a phone modem and it took about an hour to download some 27 updates in my case, including the recent kernel upgrade from Red Hat.
My only real negative experiences with Linux have been (1) being kicked out of a Red Hat upgrade attempt this morning because of heavy server useage, (2) “losing” my KPPP window in KDE after going online and finally just logging out to disconnect (not a problem in Gnome), and (3) trying to used cdrecord to “blank” a CD-RW.
Linux has a wonderful treasure trove of online documentation though, and I’m sure with sufficient perserverance that these minor issues can be dealt with.
So John, from one Windows refugee to another, keep at it.
Half the fun in life is getting there.
John,
Sorry to see all the flames you got. I’m afraid thats one thing about the “Linux” community that troubles me sometimes. On the other hand there were many great encouragement articles that highlight the positive side of the linux community. Honestly as a tech that has to support both windows and linux install, I’m much more likely to help the linux user where I would just tell the windows user to reboot. In the windows case they are usually happy until the problem occurs again and calls for another reboot.
Anyhow, another thing that bothers me is the number of posts that flamed you for a bad cd/iso. I saw one, maybe two other people defend you. You clearly said
[quote]
The installation process began smoothly enough. I did a scan of my cd to make sure it didn’t contain any errors [/quote]
Whats so hard to understand about that?
Anyhow, I enjoyed reading the article. I’m glad you got RH to install though you won’t be evaluating it any further.
I was a redhat flunkie and I have to admit that installs were not always perfect. In one machine with an ACER cd-rom, the install would crash every time. I put in another generic cd-rom and life was happy again.
As for myself I’ve picked up gentoo and loved just about every minute of it. It certainly isn’t your grandma’s distro, but realisticly, I don’t think anyone going out and buying a PC would expect to have to install the OS themselves. As far as updating. gentoo does a great job but some of the updates that touch onf files would not only baffle a “new linux user” but yould also leave them sitting with hosed fstab, net, and make.conf file. Not something every gentoo user looks forward too
The problem with the downloads was probably because redhat likes to throttle customers that aren’t using their premium services. FWIW I’ve been running windows updates on some fresh 98se boxes here and there are close to 70 updates, well over 100MB, from a clean start. I found with redhat 8.x the best way to do updates was through apt-rpm/synaptic. Even that was unreliable. Ximian desktop, one of the other solutions, was why I switched away from redhat. One little glitch and it seemed as if my ximian updater was hosed to the point that every other package had a conflict with every previous version. Hopefully the’ll get those bugs worked out soon…
Personally I think the best way to introduce novice users to Linux is with the help of any of the Live-CD distros out there. Knoppix and Gentoo are the first two that come to mind. I know knoppix offers the ability to save your configuration for later use. This allows windows users to customize knoppix to their liking without actually have to do an install. From there they can probe around on the system and become familiar with the internals before making a plunge into something that really does require the end user to know a little bit more about what they are using than your standard windows install.
In conclusion, I think your review was pretty fair. You obviously asked some of the questions that are similar as to what a windows convert might ask, except with your experience you didn’t have to turn to someone else to get the answer. Thats great for you, but any ordinary user is going to get frustrated and go back to windows assuming they can figure out how to get lilo/grub off their mbr and assuming they even got that far.
Cheers!
I’m a windows convert as well, and i’ve just installed RH9. I had mandrake 8.2, but i had some application errors, segmentation faults and a lot of other things going wrong.
I really like having a console to work with, and all the powerful development tools provided CVS, GDB, what have you…real nifty…beats programming in a Windows enironment flat. But having said all this, I’ve been trying to install things like Gaim, SINUS firewall, Aspell, and every time I try and “make” it compile, I get errors, missing *.so, can’t find this library, gotta install this before you install this, and then if one can’t compile, you can’t do anything else, and you have to hunt for the missing source.
That is probably the problem with just toooo much open source. You just can’t get the right configuration, and you have to hunt down everything for a particular config to work.
Recently, I was compiling something from http://www.gtk.org, and i received a segmentation fault. And then my computer hanged. I was thinking that perhaps Linux would have better ways of handling core dumps and seg faults. One of my RAM had been corrupted due to the strange segmentation faults.
I don’t know much about computers, but enough to install things through ./configure and makes. If Red Hat were to make to the home environment, or any linux distros for that fact, there needs to be some sort of easier way for newbies to install additional software.
Gnome CD player has some weird bugs too, i can’t press the stop button. If i try and close the application, it won’t. Weird?
The only successful thing that has happened is my mp3 patch from xmms.org, samba(except printing), and effectively using Ximian ( i just love it).
I think that this article is _not_ a fair judgement of RedHat, nor the Linux Operating System. Although I now run Gentoo, I have used Redhat since version 5.2. I do have to agree with the fact that there are a lot of things that redhat could do better with Anaconda (The RedHat Linux installer), for one, the could write it in C, but that is not the subject of this flare. The user sould _ALWAYS_ do their homework and RTFM as well as the HCL that is gratously found on just about _every_ distro’s web site, so they know that _all_ of their hardware will work with the distro. As for the part in the story about the guy not knowing how big to make the partitions, the DUMBASS SHOULD HAVE LET DISK DRIUD DO IT FOR HIM!