Will Red Hat and SuSE be drawn into the SCO v. IBM fracas? In an informative interview SCO-Caldera’s Chris Sontag tells MozillaQuest.com’s Mike Angelo there is SCO-owned code in Red Hat and SuSE Linux and no tainted code in the “Linux kernel that Linus [Torvalds] and others have helped develop.”SCO’s Sontag discusses whether the Linux kernel, GNU/Linux operating system, Linux distributions, or Linux applications are involved in the alleged IBM misconduct, which Linux distributions are involved, and how they are involved. It appears that SCO-Caldera is laying the groundwork for copyright infringement claims against Red Hat and SuSE. The Caldera v IBM lawsuit is as much a fishing expedition as it is a serious claim for damages from IBM.
SCO Clears Linux Kernel but Implicates Red Hat and SuSE
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Chris Sontag has confessed in a Corporate Wieners exclusive to having a penchant for squeezing out titillated girly giggles as his company attempts to prove possible the concept of being a software company without actually writing or selling any software.
Seriously though, I’m actually quite sick of SCO’s pantywaist whining over everything. The source is all available to them. I’d like them to point out exactly what it is that they think is theirs. Instead all I’ve read is whining that Linux could never have gotten where it is today if it hadn’t been for SCO code. What a pathetic argument!!!
Look at any of the BSD systems. They are pretty close to what Linux is (and some may argue that they have surpased Linux) with far less people working on them. Add 10 times the people to BSD and it would soon be where Linux is today (unless you think they are already better, then that just proves my point even more). The idea that SCO code is so magnificent and amazing that it makes Linux is just plain dumb.
Also, what’s up with going after SuSE? Com’on SuSE. Let’s partner and share stuff so we don’t go out of business . . . one year later . . . We’re suing SuSE because they have some of our code! Duh! Do you think?
I hope SCO withers slowly and painfully as they battle IBM, and then I hope they lose.
Ignore the above comments. I’m just in a bad mood.
If there are damages involved, can’t Red Hat and SuSe point the finger back at Caldera? At the time the alleged violations occured [key point is the time! caldera was once just another linux distro too, but now they are the owners of SCO, not SCO owning them], Caldera didn’t own SCO IP either.
Either they are also guilty of infringing and SCO stockholders can sue the Caldera group for fraudulently purchasing their company for a lesser price, or Caldera openly distributed SCO IP in their linux distro for several months license-free setting precedent that “everyone”, including Caldera the owners, was doing it! [as it was “their” IP but not included in the linux distro license agreement–because at the time the agreement was written Caldera didn’t have rights to it either! but as Caldera-SCO gave it way license-free!] It would seem like Caldera’s behavior would take precedence over SCO’s as Caldera bought SCO and caldera’s behavior prior to the purchase may have been to distribute SCO IP?
just a thought!
I assume, I’ve already heard far too many lies and exaggerations from them.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t help but to be tickled by this whole situation. Whenever a SCO executive/legal representative speaks about the lawsuit, the lunix zealots just go rabid. Is it so hard to believe that a lunix distribution is making use of a UNIX patented concept? Or that a lunix distro. has actual UNIX IP in its code? I don’t think it’s all that far-fetched.
I know open source is a religion to most lunix users, but even if SCO has a few legal victories I don’t think it’s going to be the end of the world. Please suck it up nerds.
The blurb indicates actual code, not concept. I am not sure how Redhat and Suse would be guilty, without the kernel also being tainted.
What really strikes me though is that they seem to have put their eggs into one basket – buy implicating that *IBM* gave this ‘knowledge’ to Redhat and Suse. The achilles heal here is that if they lose their lawsuit with IBM, they then by default lose any claim against Redhat or Suse.
IMO If they had just said ‘hey, redhat and suse are using our code’, and sued them directly, they’d be better off.
Go IBM.
The funny thing about linux, is that is if you somehow manage to shut down one distro (Not an easy task, IMHO), then two or three more pop up to replace it. I say, let ’em go after IBM and get squashed or bought out, or let ’em go after Red Hat and SuSE, probably lose, and probably get countersued into oblivion.
Since he just publicly admitted that the kernel itself is free of tainted code, the so-called ‘SCO taint’ must be in some application, or, more likely, some library. It isn’t glibc, which has a well-documented lineage, and it can’t be X or bash, so the most important parts are safe. It, if it exists at all, is probably in some obscure library added by Red Hat, and then transmitted to SuSE, one which can easily be cut out like a festering tumor.
SCO position amounts to this: “We know that RedHat & SuSE distros contain SCO-owned code, but we won’t tell you what that code is”. That’s pretty solid argument for an IP infringement allegation, eh?
Complete bullsh*t, nothing more. They just ask to be sued to death.
The important question that was never asked is:
Is there any SCO/Unix code in SCO-Linux?
The major features that Redhat claim it’s AS product has over a ‘standard’ Redhat distro are:
* Asynchronous I/O support: Applications no longer need to pause after issuing read I/Os until they are complete.
* Increased SMP granularity: Particularly in the SCSI I/O subsystem. Permits increased I/O throughput in SMP systems with multiple I/O adapters.
* SMP Scheduler enhancements: Support process-CPU affinity. Improves performance by increasing the CPU cache hit-rate and greatly reducing spinlock contention in SMP systems.
* Bounce Buffer Elimination: Drastically reduces I/O-related memory copy operations in large memory systems (>1GB memory).
* LSB (Linux Standard Base) interface conformity: Supports the industry-wide Linux API standard.
* Multiple enhancements to improve database performance
It would seem possible that these areas are the ones that SCO are talking about, but at a glance I can’t see anything that could possibly be both lifted from Sys V and work with the Linux kernel.
Personally, I would say this lawsuit is completely groundless waste of time and money for all those involved.
…the companies that have the most money will be the “infringers”, and subsequently the ones that SCO goes after. does SCO have any actual programmers working for them now?
on a slightly related note, does anyone know where you can download a kernel tarball from the Linux system that SGI uses on the Altrix? it be interesting to see what they changed. I read somewhere that they has ripped out the scsi system (or part of it anyway i think to do with I/O) and replaced it with their own code from IRIX
Iconoclast, I completely agree with you that this SCO vs IBM suit is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is it’s not even SCO that devolped this code that is supposedly being infringed on. They have aquired it from a company that aquired it from company that aquired it and so on until you reach the original AT&T bell labs code which was written almost 30 years ago. Sure I’m sure new code has been added along the way to SCO,but patents only last so long…
Anyways, I think you’re a little confused about BSD’s. The BSD’s got their code from Berkely’s unix distribution. I can’t exactly remember all the details, but one of the reasons why the BSD’s are so far along is becuse they are built on 20+ year old code, which actually stems from the AT&T bell labs Unix code (because berkley’s unix distribution was based on code that AT&T gave to all univirsities for free at the time to promote research). Linux on the other hand was started from scratch. Linus wanted a free *nix work a like.
BSD already went through their own legal battle, and won. Hopefully this SCO suit is just thrown out becuase I have yet to see them make any sort of actual claim as to what IBM has infringed upon, especially since they are now saying the kernel is clear.
That article managed to take up a few pages with no real benefit.
For half of the questions, Sontag just says that he can’t comment.
And no, OS X, etc (in the line: “System V is the basis for all OSes outside of Redmond, …” are not based on System V. OS X is BSD, Linux is it’s own thing, and AIX is a freak. Solaris, I thought, was a combo of BSD and Sys V, but the SCO dude doesn’t contend that it is SysV based, so perhaps Sun just SysV’ified their BSD-based SunOS. And then MozillaQuest gets confused…
“Is it so hard to believe that a lunix distribution is making use of a UNIX patented concept? Or that a lunix distro.”
yes, yes, we got the joke: lunix! muhahaha! I love it when people think they are so witty that they have to repeat their joke in every sentence so everyone would get it…What is a “UNIX patented _concept_” anyway – you mean POSIX compliance or what? lol.
The blurb indicates actual code, not concept. I am not sure how Redhat and Suse would be guilty, without the kernel also being tainted.
Umm, there is a lot of stuff that makes up a Linux distro that isn’t the kernel. Note that they have a beef with RedHat and SuSE, not anyone and everyone who uses Linux, or specifically, Linus or whomever may have lifted the code in question.
SCO is saying that RedHat and SuSE, somewhere in their distro, have code stolen from SCO. This could be in any number of places, in any application or package that RedHat wrote from scratch or modified from the original.
Hey, what do you mean that AIX is a freak ???
Both SCO Linux and SuSe Linux are based on United Linux. Does this mean SCO Linux is tainted as well, or did they remove all the tainted code before releasing SCO Linux as GPL.
So much for “This lawsuit is not about Linux”
SCO is full of crap. All SCO code in SuSE Linux is what SCO gave SuSE for United Linux, its just trying to attack the big dogs in the Linux world trying to get its distribution selling again.
What do you mean AIX is not a freak ???
smitty smit smit smit WTF!
It’s about as clever as M$.
Wow, what a lucky coincidence for SCO! They’ve discovered that the product of a non-profit body isn’t tainted by their code but the products of two commercial companies are!
And no, OS X, etc (in the line: “System V is the basis for all OSes outside of Redmond, …” are not based on System V. OS X is BSD, Linux is it’s own thing, and AIX is a freak.
There’s also BeOS and the AmigaOS – both non-Redmond, both non-Unix.
Solaris, I thought, was a combo of BSD and Sys V, but the SCO dude doesn’t contend that it is SysV based, so perhaps Sun just SysV’ified their BSD-based SunOS.
Actually, I believe Sun licensed the Unix copyright back when AT&T still held it. I think that also means Sun is legally allowed to say that Solaris is a UNIX OS rather than UNIX-based.
“Whenever a SCO executive/legal representative speaks about the lawsuit lunix zealots just go rabid”
lunix zealots -> funny, you’ve got talent Tudo
“I know open source is a religion to most lunix users”
Not for me.
“Please suck it up nerds.”
?
Anyways, I think you’re a little confused about BSD’s.
No, I’m not confused, but I may not have stated my argument well (and I probably won’t here either as I try to explain what I meant).
The only difference between the current state of BSD and the current state of Linux, in my opinion, is that Linux became popular and trendy; both with users and corporations. Because of that, there has been a big push to desktopize Linux (because that’s where the companies believe the money is). If the same commercial push was applied to BSD and BSD projects, I think we’d see an equal amount of “desktop BSD” campaigns and we’d be arguing whether or not BSD was ready for the desktop too. It has nothing to do with any “stolen code” and everything to do with corporate dollars and the number of developers.
I only brought up BSD to point out that other Unix-like operating systems are progressing very nicely without SCO code. I am aware that their beginnings are different.
Anyway, if SCO wins and IBM did put SCO code into Linux, then Linux developers will clean it out just like the BSD developers did when they created BSD-lite. A minor setback.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t help but to be tickled by this whole situation. Whenever a SCO executive/legal representative speaks about the lawsuit, the lunix zealots just go rabid.
That’s funny, I used to get “tickled” (As an aside, I use that phrase in quotes because you used it. As a grown man I would never allow myself to become tickled, giggle, prance, whinny, or describe myself as being filled with glee; but that’s me) during the MS antitrust trial and the Sun vs. Microsoft trial when all the Windows zealot would whine that it wasn’t fair and Microsoft should be allowed to do whatever they wanted to.
Is it so hard to believe that a lunix distribution is making use of a UNIX patented concept?
No, but if there’s proof of that, then show it. Instead, all they’ve claimed is that Linux couldn’t possibly have gotten this far along without SCO code. That’s like me saying that you couldn’t possibly afford to own a car so you must have stolen my money.
I work across the parking lot from SCO and have/had several friends that worked there. SCO is in trouble and this is juts a ruse to raise their stock price or get somebody to buy them. The only good product they had to offer, Volution, was killed when they layed off all the developers (probably so they could hire lawyers for this legal case.
I know open source is a religion to most lunix users, but even if SCO has a few legal victories I don’t think it’s going to be the end of the world. Please suck it up nerds.
I don’t think anybody thinks it is the end of the world. I think people hate SCO for the same reason they mock that retarded lady who sued McDonald’s because she spilled her own hot coffee down her crotch. Both situations are viewed as stupid lawsuits by people trying to make a sleazy buck off rich companies.
By the way, is Lunix supposed to be a funny/mocking moniker like Microshaft, Microsux, Micro$oft, Windoze, etc.? If so, it is equally lame, in my opinion.
”
Both SCO Linux and SuSe Linux are based on United Linux. Does this mean SCO Linux is tainted as well, or did they remove all the tainted code before releasing SCO Linux as GPL.
So much for “This lawsuit is not about Linux” ”
United Linux and SCO Linux are based on SuSE Linux. They chose SuSEs code base because it offered the best compatibility with Red Hat and because of the easy to use configuration tools and ease-of-use that SuSE seems to be the leader in. SuSE needs to be careful whose toes they step on and they better not burn all their bridges. I have a feeling when this is done SCO won’t be able to strike a deal with the local Ice Cream man much less any tech companies
” I know open source is a religion to most lunix users, but even if SCO has a few legal victories I don’t think it’s going to be the end of the world. Please suck it up nerds.”
That’s nice. Pot meet kettle.
Acting like a stereotypical zealot when complaining about linux zealots(gee don’t hear that term all the time) really puts you “above” the fray.
Bravo.