Lack of hardware and application support eclipses OS’ potential benefits. When it comes to Unix, Sun Microsystems’ Solaris operating system shines on the company’s 64-bit SPARC processors. Unfortunately, the picture is less bright for the version of Solaris written for Intel’s 32-bit Pentium family.
Sun Solaris 9 x86 Proves Uneven
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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The $20 mentiioned is not a license fee, it is to pay for the download. The license is free for educational or single processor use.
The reviewer complains about lack of software but fails to mention the comprehensive collection of applications on the Software Compananion CD. There is also Community Software which can be installed using a method similar to Debian’s apt, the pkg-get utility available at http://www.blastwave.org
These resources provide the same applications which would be provided by a typical Linux distribution.
Mark, I don’t think this is the case. I used Solaris for a few weeks when Sun led me a SPARC workstation a few months ago. I used pkg-get and tried to find on the web apps… There are very few apps available for Solaris on the freeware (and on sunfreeware.com). Even NetBSD/OpenBSD have way more OSS ports than Solaris has (I am always talking about OSS software). Not many hackers are using Solaris, so there are not many ports out there.
I am not a programmer so my knowledge is limited. But can’t Sun use drivers written for Linux in Solaris x86? Would it need to ported or interfaced in some way.
> Any administrator familiar with Linux installation will have
> no difficulty bringing up Solaris, especially now that the
> default user interface is the Gnome 2.0 found on many Linux
> distributions, instead of Sun’s own CDE (Common Desktop
> Environment). New wizards and hardware sniffers truly automate
> the installation. But on the ThinkPad, I had no multimedia
> support; the drivers were not available.
Actually, CDE is still the default desktop. GNOME 2 is still only available as a separate download but it is planned to be the standard DE in Solaris 10.
Eugenia said: “There are very few apps available for Solaris on the freeware (and on sunfreeware.com)”
I suppose it depends what you are looking for, there are now about 200 or so apps on the community site, and the software CD includes KDE, koffice and a few hundred of the more common Unix/Linux apps. It’s true to say that this does not compare with the thousands included with Debian or the BSD’s ports system, but how many variations of an application do you actually use?
I am currently using Solaris 9 with Gnome 2 as a desktop box and have everything I need. Mozilla, OpenOffice,nedit, Gimp, and the CDE apps provide a good working environment. Most Linux apps will also compile from source without tweaking.
The software selection is still pathetic. They’re trying to get people interested in it, yet, they aren’t willing to invest the money to get third parties to port their software to Solaris. What makes the issue even worse is the fact that their X-Server sucks, and yes, I am being generous. When you can compile GNOME/KDE on every other bloody X-Server, and XFT works nicely as well, why the heck does SUN insist on their operating system being completely different to the rest of the civilised world?
As for me, I have already suggested several times for SUN to get a portage system setup like FreeBSD has to allow faster porting and availability of applications, and still I have had no reponse.
Nothing would please me more than SUN Microsystems going tits up, atleast then we’d no longer have to put up with SUN blaming everyone else for their poor management.
SUN’s problem is in multiple areas, yet, everytime I do suggest something I am ignored. When SUN does go tits up, it will be a big “I told you so [number] of years ago, but you didn’t listen”.
Eugena
Okay so the list of packages is nothing like debian but theres a suprising amount
http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php
I just don’t understand why do you use Solaris now? If you don’t have a sparc machine, I just don’t see why people don’t use Linux or BSD. Oh well, if you have sparc, then of course you are stuck.
If they offer it for free for x86, I am willing to try it.
> If they offer it for free for x86, I am willing to try it.
> I just don’t understand why do you use Solaris now? If you
> don’t have a sparc machine, I just don’t see why people don’t
> use Linux or BSD. Oh well, if you have sparc, then of course
> you are stuck.
In other words:
I prefer driving unroadworthy cars because they are free, I do not have to pay for them and I can’t understand why anyone would want to pay $20 to get a Ferarri when they work far better on european roads. I spose if you live in europe then you are stuck. Maybe I’ll try a Ferarri if they start offering them for free.
PS: This was not an attempt to start a flame war, I didn’t mean to suggest that Linux is un’pc’worthy. It was just a way of explainint the point.
I run Solaris 9/SPARC here at home on a Sun Ultra 2 (dual 300 mhz) and it’s real nice, in fact, I have slowly but surely been able to get/compile just about everything I need. I was running Solaris 2.6/SPARC on a SS5, it was rock solid. But when RAM costs more then a newer/better box, well, you know the story… I spent the $20 to get the x86 port. I have those ISOs, but for me, I was kinda disappointed when I tried to install on my ThinkPad 600X, not too many drivers for this laptop.. =( I did get SOL9/X86 to install OK under a VMware session on my RH8/Proliant box, but you can kinda tell that SPARC is thier main focus, just in the feel of the OS/install. That’s cool with me, but I’d really like to have a fully functional laptop running Solaris if I could. Those Tadpoles are a wee-bit too much for my shallow pockets. They are sweet tho, wish I had one– I’d ditch this ThinkPad (RH8) in a heartbeat… well maybe not ditch it =)
It just seems/feels like SOL9/Intel is more of an after thought =(
> I am not a programmer so my knowledge is limited. But can’t Sun use drivers written for Linux in Solaris x86? Would it need to ported or interfaced in some way.
They have some sort of ‘porting kit’ which allows you to use the drivers written for XFree86 under SOlaris x86. I dont know how they have accomplished this, but it seemed to work *ok* when I tried it with Solaris 8.
Thanks offtangent
> That’s cool with me, but I’d really like to have a fully
> functional laptop running Solaris if I could.
Try a Dell Inspiron 8200. I have one and EVERYTHING works with sun software except the sound card (you can get a driver for it at solaris-x86.org). I agree with you though, mobile solaris is _REALLY_ cool!
I’m not too familiar with the differences between Linux and Solaris, so could anyone enlighten me?
I’ve used Solaris at university, and I use Linux at home. I don’t see much of a difference between the 2 (apart from software).
What benefits would Solaris on the desktop/mobile bring?
>I just don’t understand why do you use Solaris now? If you
>don’t have a sparc machine, I just don’t see why people
>don’t use Linux or BSD. Oh well, if you have sparc, then of
>course you are stuck.
I have an alternate point of view, of people going out of their way to buy sparc systems then running an O/S they could run anywhere on them (linux/bsd etc). I didn’t understand why people did this either but it’s because that’s what’s familiar to them and they don’t need what Solaris offers, typically as applies to large systems, and they don’t want to learn it either when Linux does what they want. Similarly in the opposite direction, people that work with Solaris may want to run it on the hardware they have. New SPARC laptops cost 5 figure sums.
There is a line I’ve read somewhere that I’ll paraphrase: “To a user all unices are pretty much the same, to a programmer they are all a bit different, to an administrator they are all completely different”. People run Solaris /x86 because it’s different in ways they prefer or make use of, or need for their jobs.
There is substantially less precompiled software available for Solaris x86 as compared to Solaris/SPARC (or Linux in both cases), but gcc works quite fine on both platforms – it takes some work with some packages but self building from source is just as possible as on Linux. For that matter, Linux binary compatibility is supported by Sun on Solaris/x86 – read up on lxrun. Lack of software is not the issue, it’s whether you are willing to put in the effort to run it. The answer to that depends largely on how much you prefer Solaris for its ‘differences’..
What benefits would Solaris on the desktop/mobile bring?
There is really only one purpose for Solaris/x86 to have a compatable version for people whose target systems are Solaris/Sparc. In other words the reason to run a Solaris desktop would be things like:
a) You use Solaris only apps
b) You are developing for an inhouse Solaris solution
etc…
The NFS server that comes with Solaris is traditionally the best in the industry. (not surprising, it was Sun’s invention).
The other is Solstice/Sun Volume Manager. It’s an excellent storage management package, in some respects it surpasses Veritas VxVM, even though VxVM is considered the king of the hill. So if you have tons of disks, both internal and JBODs, smart arrays and fibrechannel storage nets, you can manage them with a cheapo x86. Not necessarily what I would do (if you have a 5 or 6 figure invested in storage, you could just as well get a Sun Fire 280R), but it certainly is a much more solid (time tested and performant) solution than Linux.
Of course, the argument of “to learn Solaris at home” is still in place, but I thought the NFS argument makes sense in a production environment, too.
From what I can tell so far, on PC hardware, most free Unices can do what Solaris x86 can do and then some, and they do it more cheaply with less hassle. If one wants to simply run a Unix-y system on Intel, Solaris x86 is probably not the best choice. On the other hand, if one is trying to learn more about Solaris without spending money on SPARC hardware, Solaris x86 is not such a bad idea, which is probably the main reason Sun offers it. Solaris x86 is mainly useful as a “pilot plant” or learning tool.
i’m not convinced that Solaris for x86 is, as an earlier poster put it, a “ferrari”. more like a haulage truck. big and slow. sure, it’ll get there, and probably carry a big load too… but linux andthe BSDs are nipper, and if you want them to carry a load, they can be configured to do that as well.
can anyone inform me if i can recompile the Solaris kernel to trim it dowm, or chunk it up as required?
t
A dollar is still too much money for one song, but it is still better than buying an entire CD just to get one song. I still don’t know why CDs are so expensive, though, people won’t be pirating too much if CDs were not so unaffordable. I would like to see artists get some control over how their songs are marketed
Generally, Sun cannot use Linux drivers in Solaris, since Linux drivers are mostly GPL. This is the same reason Microsoft can’t use Linux drivers in Windows, or Be couldn’t use Linux driver’s in BeOS. Pretty much every modern OS links in the driver as the equivilent of a .o (.obj) or .so (.dll) file, and that invokes the “derived work” clause in the GPL.
As for the differences between Solaris and Linux, there are a whole lot. First, Solaris is an actual SVR4 UNIX, in that it has the trademark license.
As a result, the userspace is almost pure SVR4, while Linux is pure-GNU (which is a mix of SVR4 and BSD, more SVR4 than BSD). The kernel is very different on the inside. Solaris has a lot of mechanism to enable it to scale to multi-way machines. Linux and Windows scale to maybe 8-16 processors fairly well (even though they physically support many more), but Solaris will easily scale to 64-128 processor machines. A lot of the internal mechanisms in the kernel (the locking mechanism, the memory allocators, etc) are tuned for multi-processor machines. The overhead of the scalability mechanisms are one of the major reasons why Solaris has a reputation for being slow on single-processor x86 machines. Further, Solaris has a lot of robustness features (hotswap everything, hot kernel patching, etc) that Linux is just getting, or still doesn’t have.
The book “Inside Solaris” is a great read for anyone interested in Solaris, or OSs in general. It’s highly detailed, much more so than anything you’ll get out of certain other companies… One of my favorite things about Sun is how it’s always been willing to publish it’s technical advancements so people can see what’s inside, and use some of the cooler features (several Linux mechanisms are Solaris inspired).
Mr. Igzo from sd.sd.cox.net wrote:
I’d really like to have a fully functional laptop running Solaris if I could. Those Tadpoles are a wee-bit too much for my shallow pockets.
Fortunatly, Tadpole is not your only choice. A taiwanese company called Naturetech is selling laptops based off of the UltraSPARC IIe. They were running a special a while back, selling the lower end ones for $3000. Not cheap, but in the TiBook price range. Naturetech and old Tadpole/RDI laptops pop up on Ebay on occasion.
Yours truly,
Jeffrey Boulier
There was a time when Sun was on top of the world, with SGI, HP, and buddies. If you used Unix at school or at work, it was probably a commercial variant, and it was what you learned on, it was what you knew, and the home OS offerings like Windows or Mac OS couldn’t do half the stuff you knew was necessary in an enterprise IT environment.
Now, many people’s first experience with Unix or Unix-like OS’s is an encounter with FreeBSD or Linux, and often their datacenter is humming along nicely with one or the other. It works, it’s cheap, it’s mostly Good Enough.
Sun’s x86 Solaris can’t compete in terms of price or features with Linux and FreeBSD. The Sparc versions don’t become attractive until you have hit true enterprise hardware requirements.
Sun’s job, if they want to compete in low to mid range servers and workstations is to produce an OS which is comfortable for a Linux or FreeBSD user, and that means doing a lot better than an accompanying freeware cd; it means something like dselect, and their own hosted inventory of OSS software, it means writing many more hardware drivers, and it means losing the attitude. Buying Sun is no longer like buying a ‘ferrari’ as one poster implied.
The gap between Intel/AMD hardware and enterprise hardware will one day close enough to make it worth switching. Sun needs to wake up.
Flame war is not what I want, and the answers I got are exactly what I want to know.
Thanx guys.
So the conclusion is that… if I don’t really want to learn Solaris, and I don’t already know it well, and I don’t have sparc hardware, Solaris doesn’t mean too much for me. Otherwise, it is nice.
I just don’t think Solaris is a very good desktop OS, with limited hardware support, is this a fair statement?
I just wanted to say I have had no problems with Solaris 9.. even on my x86 system running current hardware. (I.E. geforce4, sound blaster live, amd 2100xp w/ MSI board). On a prior comment it was mentioned how many different versions of one app does someone need. This is true. Just look at windows. Anyhow, if you absolutely needed your linux appz, you can run them if its installed on a linux partition already. The thing with solaris is that its 99.999% NOT for newbies to linux/unix or people that think everything ought to be point and click.
This is a real quotation from the Solaris Free Binary License Program FAQs.
Q. I am a home user. I use my system to run an office program and to surf the Net. Is the Solaris Operating System for me?
A. You can meet and exceed your computing needs with the Solaris Operating System and the StarOffice productivity suite.
In a word or two, reliability and stability are the reasons I run Solaris (on x86 and sparc).
Despite some earlier comments about Xsun I have never had lock-ups of X which were fairly frequent on my Linux box. I have never seen any sort of panic, crash or even error message on Solaris. Bear in mind of course that this is during desktop use which does not really tax the OS in any serious way.
It just works, and I am willing to pay the price of not having all the latest and greatest applications. As for newbies, providing you dedicate a drive to Solaris, the installation process is as easy as say, Red Hat and easier than Debian or FreeBSD.
The “point and click” applications are included if you want to use them, there is a gui front-end for pkgadd, pkgrm and the new Solaris Management Console which is similar to Windows 2000/XP Computer Management.
While Sun’s scalability is surpassed by generally available OSes except for Irix, it’s quite slow on single or dual proc boxes – which is what the average enthusiast can readily afford. So, except as a cheap way to learn Solaris, you’d be better off running Linux or *BSD on low-end Intel
Nice comments most of you. Many of you seems to be in touch so I play with a question a bit.
Why so technicaly awesome system is choosing Gnome as it’s future default DE instead of KDE? Speed shouldn’t be of much matter because when Solaris 10(and say port on x86)arrive there would be P4 3.0Ghz for 50$ max and speed diferences between Gnome and KDE would make about 0.001% when properly compiled. But the code design differences truly matters.
I am mostly windows developer(with many interests to unix though) but when I needed to do a larger project for linux using graphics I did a research and ended with KDE(with underlying Qt library beeing very nice).
Of course I looked up for Gnome also but it was old design crap(both the DE + Gtk libraries are old 70′ arcane stuff) with it’s structural coding libraries make me laugh(*_new() replacing C++ new operator).
Why is Sun going for highly-patched-not-bright-design-old-structured-mess code rather than for(not necessary state of the art) 100times more perspective and elegant Qt + KDE.
P.S. What for a drivers exactly do you need for a laptop(say thinkpad) so it renders them unusable? SunXdrivers for mobile graphics card?
you can also email me answers please, TIA
n.