The Verge does this thing where they list what they consider to be the best laptop or phone or whatever, and they state the Samsung Galaxy S8 is the best phone for most people.
Samsung’s Galaxy S8/S8 Plus is the best phone for most people. It’s available across all four US carriers and unlocked. It has the best display on any smartphone right now, a head-turning, premium design, a top-of-the-line camera, reliable battery life, and fast performance. Thanks to Samsung’s popularity and the support of all four carriers, the S8 also has plenty of accessories, from cases to battery packs to wireless chargers, available to it.
You can definitely make a case for the S8 being the best phone for most people, but personally, I still consider the iPhone to be the best, safest choice for most non-geeky people. Personally, I prefer Android, and for my personal use, iOS on the iPhone is an exercise in frustration – but iOS provides a more consistent, all-around phone experience that remains fairly static from phone to phone, it’s a little simpler to grasp than Android, and Apple has an excellent support system in many countries that’s far better than Samsung’s hands-off let-the-reseller-handle-it approach.
I wonder – what do any of you consider the best phone for most people? If one of your non-geeky family members seeks your advice, which phone do you suggest they get?
The Verge named the Surface Laptop the best laptop, which I find a baffling choice. It’s new and unproven, so we have no idea how it’ll hold up over the next few years. An odd choice for sure.
Best Buy S8 = $574, S8+ = $674.
iphone8 rumored to be first phone over $1,000
The cost of the iPhone is very much becoming a major disincentive. It’s always been ‘up there’ but the cost of every new device continues to go up.
I don’t think the price differential has a commiserate capability/feature differential these days.
difference/commensurate.
sorry
Apologies – you’re correct – cannot edit it anymore.
Edited 2017-08-09 03:04 UTC
3.5mm jack ? Replaceable battery ?
Every iPhone 7 comes with a 3.5mm-to-Lightning adapter. The battery is replaceable, it just takes special tools to open the case.
The special tools render the battery non-replaceable for majority of people.
Why do you need replaceable battery at all?
If you need extended power, use power bank. You need to carry battery anyway.
Nowadays people are changing phones faster than battery degrades.
Anyway, iPhone5 battery replace takes 10 minutes and costs $20 (battery included) in Moscow for example.
Edited 2017-08-08 23:03 UTC
Sadly, it’s true. Rapidly ageing software renders smartphones obsolete much faster than battery dies completely. Well supported/updated devices such as iPhone and Samsung top of the line flagships might be an exception, but the rest of the industry is doing planned/forced obsolescence at full speed.
Using a HTC Evo3D since 2011, 6 yo, replaced 3 times the battery. As long as the phone works, I see no point to change it. It have the right size and functionalities.
And if it breaks, I have my old Nokia N95 ready with a new battery, in case of. I don’t see the point of changing phones like of sweatshirt. Let your beard grow!
So then I have a question for you that concerns me often: on very old Android versions (say KitKat) are there any issues of installing and running mainstream apps, such as Uber?
Yes and no. Because the firmware gets stuck at 4.0.3 on Evo3D, you get limited to the API revision. Yet Google managed to decorrelate the API from the Google services, and now apps like Uber mostly follows what the services revision is. If you are lucky, that’s good enough.
Btw I don’t use Uber so I can still use my old phone. Some free sarcasm for you as food for thought.
That’s a big advantage Android has over iOS that folks like Thom don’t understand. When I as a developer package an Android I can target way back to at least API 15 (Android 4.0.3) and still use the latest APIs. The SDK just bundles all the new goodies with the app, so it’ll run on those old OS versions.
This has another side benefit – while continuous iOS updates render old phones useless after a while by over taxing the aging hardware, since Android phones usually don’t get updated, the Android version running on the old hardware matches, and doesn’t slow down over time. Your older phone runs at pretty much the same speed after 3 or 4 years as when you got it.
Can’t say that for iOS, and it’s a big reason I switched to Android.
Android: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
iOS: 8, 9, 10, 11
What is your point? As far as I can tell you don’t have one.
Edit: Thinking about it you mean the new APIs from 8 would be included and work with 4? That sounds horrific in terms of what would need to be included for some things.
Edited 2017-08-10 20:10 UTC
Yes, if I compile my app with support for API 15 (which is Android 4.03) and target API 21, then it includes all the necessary APIs for the target API. It does bloat the .apk a bit, but Google solved that a couple of ways. First, the support lib is a shared lib, so the user only needs it once (and third parties like Adobe with AIR, or Xamarin can leverage the same thing btw – unlike on iOS). The Play store also only sends you the specific binaries you need (re ARM or x86), something Apple also started to do after a while (though they don’t have nearly the same back compat story).
It was a problem for a while that Android doesn’t update, particularly for security, but Google solved the app compat problem ages ago (in Android 2.x if I remember correctly), and has been solving the security problem over time as well.
For reference:
https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/support-library/packag…
Wow! I guess that might be the first time I seen the fact that you can not get updates with Android very often (if ever) as an advantage. I still have Iphone 5s & 4s that are very usable. And by the way… you don’t have to upgrade the OS. So, saying that you cannot upgrade is an advantage over the choice of upgrading or not, is idiotic.
Maybe I’m just the odd ball that cares about security, but that thing is an invitation to powernship.
You’re vulnerable to all of these listed here:
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product…
And that is how planned obsolescence is now enforced on users using just software. No one cares if your old device works perfectly… You WILL buy new one! Or else!..
True enough. I’m not really sure if that is or was the plan, but it works against me. As demonstrated through out this thread, there are many smart people that simply don’t care about security updates for good or bad reasons. So if that is their master plan, its not working too good on them.
I cannot force Google or HTC to support an old device, even tough it is a dual core 1.2GHz with 768MB of memory.
The ‘chances’ I get hacked are slim, I don’t have data plan anyway and keep my phone with me all the time.
F*** off planned obsolescence, security is a fallacy just like terrorism is. It’s not for the greater good.
Security is not a fallacy. I don’t mean to speak ill of you or anyone else, but hacking is not a pretend threat. Pretending it is, is not wise.
You see how Google or HTC manage security, then. I cannot bear to have faults falling on my shoulders.
Not sure what you’re implication is.
You are ultimately responsible for your own security. Its a difficult job, made more difficult by closed sourced code and just the volume of it. Best practice is to get some one else to do as much of it as possible, and react appropriately to any security breaches.
In this case that would mean using a phone that still gets timely security updates. If your phone doesn’t its not your fault, but if you do nothing to change that it is.
Bill shooter of Bul,
Yes and no. If a car has a firmware glitch affecting many owners, the manufacturer is expected to fix it. But with cell phones suddenly it’s the owners fault? This is clearly a double standard. The tech industry holds itself to much lower standards than everyone else. I hate that this is the case, but it’s probably due to the lack of regulation.
If I drive a Model T and get rammed with a Chevy Tahoe going at a slow 30 MPH. I’mmma gonna die. Is that really Ford’s fault? The safety problems of the Model T when compared to modern vehicles are well known.
There is obviously no firm definitive answer here, but as a practical matter a user is responsible for their own security to the extent its possible and practical. They must make the best choices they can given the available information.
Years ago, windows security was a nightmare. Best way to deal with it was either switch to a different OS, say Mac OSX, linux or some such OS. Or at the very least install a firewall and anti virus.
Action is required on the part of users to keep themselves safe. They are required to make good choices. Should the be required to? Well, manufacturers should do their best to make sure that they have the information they need and users are safe by default, so the safe choice is the easy choice.
Bill Shooter,
Yes, users need to take responsibility for updating their phones, however the point is mute if manufacturers refuse to provide those updates. Manufacturers must take some responsibility for providing updates or enabling the community to build updates for themselves. Blaming consumers is an excuse for manufacturers to lower manufacturing standards.
Edited 2017-08-11 21:05 UTC
Some of us can still remember the 1980’s, when most phones were over $1000
The important difference is, one wouldn’t upgrade most phones every few years in 1980’s.
Well, they were upgraded after theft, which happened once in a while. It was the 80s crack was king. No car stereo or phone was safe.
I’d go for one of the new Nokia phones. Probably the Nokia 5. Solid build quality, specs that are good enough for most people, and vanilla android that gets almost immediate updates.
Do you have any idea until when updates are guaranteed by Nokia?
I read at least about the Nokia 3 that there are some issues with MediaTek so they can’t even get Android 7.1.1, or any of the security updates after May.
Does not look promising, even though the Nokia 5 uses different chip(s), it shows lack of commitment or ability to provide updates over the longer term. Will be true for the Nokia 5 as well in a few months/years…
I think updates are guaranteed for 2 years, and I believe android O will be arriving shortly after Google release it. Perhaps even before the the Nexus phones get it.
It’s still early days for the europeans, but the Asians have said updates have been very regular.
The wife has a Nokia 3 for a few weeks now, and that’s already had an update. I believe 7.1.1 i due in august. The Nokia 5 & 6 are already running 7.1.1
So far, I’m really impressed with HMD. Vanilla android and regular updates are the the android phones I’ve been waiting for. I’m gonna get the 5 later this month.
Edited 2017-08-08 08:43 UTC
Any source for that? What is the recourse if I buy it and the updates don’t come? Can I get a full refund?
If not then its not worth it to me.
I was extremely tempted to order the Nokia 6 yesterday. I currently have a Note 4, and one thing that has always irritated me about running any phone that is a Nexus, is that none of them have an microSD slot except the very first one. These Nokia phones do. Though I still love the stylus of the Note, so will probably wait a bit longer and get the Note 8.
Ok, they have a SD card. Whee! Small comfort when your identity and bank account have been stolen because the device doesn’t get timely security updates.
Wait, what? Is that toward the Nokia or the Note 8? Or just Android in general? Pretty simple to keep your bank information safe… don’t use bank apps. Pretty much the only thing I keep on my device is email, and I don’t allow apps access to everything. Oh and most importantly, I don’t install things from shady sources. Yes that includes crappy games from the play store where they keep asking for microtransactions.
Just requires a bit of extra paranoia.
Towards the Nokia. Samsung also sucks at writing secure software, thats true, But at least they do provide timely Android security updates.
And again this topic was a phone to recommend to a non techy friend, which means they will run what eveva app they want. Venmo, paypal, What ever stupid game they want from the playstore. You name it.
Also, if a scammer has access to your email, they have access to what ever that email is connected to as password reset mechanism. Plus whatever uses its sms as a second factor.
You’re not as safe as you could be.
The only apps I have on my smartphone are music player and e-taxi. The only data I have on my phone is mp3 files and my contacts. How exactly does this allow my bank account to be stolen?
I’m assuming this also means no email and no sms. See my other comment on those.
But otherwise that’s great, You’re using an expensive smart phone like a late 90s Nokia. Good Jorb. I’ll recommend a very cheap insecure phone for you. Everyone else, I’ll recommend a more secure phone.
I use my smartphone however I want and that’s my business. If you don’t approve of it, that’s your problem. If you’re jealous I have enough money to use expensive smartphone as a dumbphone, that’s again your problem.
Edited 2017-08-10 06:38 UTC
For geeks who turn on their brand new phone and immediately install a different ROM, change the launcher, change all the app icons, put pirated apps on the thing, etc etc etc, Android is the device for them. For people who just want to turn on their phone, sync with iTunes to put the apps, photos, movies, music, etc they want to have on it and have it work for them, iOS is the perfect choice. Personally, I don’t need to change my launcher or change every single icon on the thing, those and other options are things I just don’t need or want to do. And there is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with people who change everything. To each his own.
Edited 2017-08-07 22:16 UTC
wocowboy,
For geeks who want control, android is the phone of choice because there’s no good viable competition.
I’ve done kernel development in windows and linux. I’ve debugged and patched drivers to improve hardware support, etc. But to be perfectly honest, I think android is pretty damn lousy and crippling in terms of rooting and modding, it’s just that the iphone is worse for the criteria I care about. So while android is the defacto hardware of choice for customization, I don’t think it deserves that much praise for actually being good at it.
It’s a real shame because linux on PCs is extremely powerful, but on mobile devices it has been bastardized.
I’ll agree with this 100%. While the iPhone allows no customizations, Android does.. but in a shitty way. That’s why I loved my Nokia N9 and N900. It’s ‘real’ Linux under there, instead of a kernel with some shit slapped on top.
My family has had good results with HTC (let the flames begin).
We’re a Sprint family (possibly their longest customer, btw, insert more flames here). Our 1st smart phone was an HTC. We have two One M8’s and one Bolt. The One M8 is awesome…. headphone jack, IR blaster (yes sir!!)…
We like HTC’s interface. Have had no real problems. Likely will be upgrading to the U11 or better (my M8 is still ok, but battery life is starting to fade on our other one, the Bolt we bought was to replace our other M8 in which the battery failed completely… we tend to keep our phones for 2+ years).
Biggest problem is that most all phones are going backwards with regards to total features. Not sure I need a 2,234,231,334,232 pixel front facing camera vs. having a head phone jack and IR blaster (just saying).
I also loved the EVO 4G LTE for having the built-in kick stand and not being so slippery as to force the purchase of a case (hint).
My phone is on all the time, there have never been limits for us. I do not fear giving demos anywhere. WiFi calling is of no interest to me. I use my phone to hit my Plex sever for listening in the car on very long (hours) commutes. Now… let me say that Sprint’s coverage varies… but where I’m at, it’s good.
All my neighbors complain about their lack of ATT service where we live. Just shows that sometimes Sprint actually does win (even if rare).
Old video of me using my old Evo 4G LTE https://endlessnow.com/ten/Video/03-pms-phone.mp4 here.
At one point (because I worked briefly at ATT) we were going to switch, but my daughter really wanted that purple HTC phone… so we stuck it out with Sprint. Sort of glad we did.
I love how the rivalry between HTC and Samsung is so lopsided, that no one really cares.
I’m generally in line with you, Thom; the iPhone is the best “my first smartphone” for most folks, and even though the price keeps going up, Apple has also started making the lower priced SE with great specs. The iPhone has evolved into a powerful and convenient device while avoiding Android’s fragmented update system and lack of support from carriers and manufacturers. It’s the no-nonsense choice.
That said, my wife has a Galaxy S7 (non-Edge version) and it’s a hell of a nice phone for the price. If I wasn’t opposed to having a Google based ecosystem, I’d probably pick one up for myself, and just Cyanogenmod/Lineage it when Samsung drops support. Her last phone was a Nexus 6 and as great as it was, the Samsung is a better phone in every way.
I’ll say too that even though Windows Phone/Windows Mobile is on its death bed, it remains the most practical approach to a mobile UI in my experience. Some of the hardware is excellent for the price too, the Lumia 650 is an amazing deal and a great phone. It’s too bad Microsoft has never been able to figure out where they were going with WP/WM, and there’s the ever present “telemetry” debate, though I personally feel safer giving my info to Microsoft than to Google.
Still got an iPhone 6. Good enough tbh.
The S8 has a serious flaw: it is one of the most fragile smartphones ever made. I dislike making rare earths and factory labor disposable, so I buy refurbished Samsung S5s off of eBay, encase them, give them an extended battery for 3x the life, and usually put a ROM like Lineage on them.
Plus, the S5 still has a removable battery and a SD card slot – features missing from newer phones.
What am I missing out on, exactly? This has been doing all I ask of it, for about $180 up front.
Edited 2017-08-08 01:09 UTC
They are called “rare earths” because they are always found as complex ores. Depite the name they are actually quite abundant in nature.
The amount of labour in a phone is negligible.
People have been brainwashed into thinking they need an expensive flagship, In practice sub $100 prepaid phones are perfectly adequate for most people. They usually have removable batteries, microSD card slots and vanilla Android. They also don’t disintegrate when they are dropped.
This is like arguing over whether the best car for most people is a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, when in fact it’s actually something like a Ford Fiesta.
most people can’t afford a $700+ phone…
Depends on Most. Also its under $600 for the US version. Most of my friends that would ask me what phone to get, would be able to afford that. And that’s kind of the question that was proposed here.
Bill Shooter of Bul,
Do friends let friends go into debt over unnecessary overpriced phones? Haha.
The notion of affordability in terms of real money has silently been replaced with affordability in terms of debt. It masks how unaffordabile things really are for consumers. I am very concerned with the financial changes of the past half century, we’re looking at trillions of dollars worth of debt owed by the lower classes to the wealthy. Of course consumer debt pays for lots of things besides phones, but expensive phones are still part of the problem.
Forgive me for ranting, this is not addressed to you personally, but I just felt it needed to be stated
Yeah, I get that $600 is a lot to many people, including my friends. But for a phone that is reliable and will last the expected two years, its worth the price for them. They won’t be going into debt for it, but it will cut into their entertainment budget. So maybe less dining out, more home cooked meals. Which are usually healthier anyways. So in a way I’m helping save their lives by recommending a slightly more expensive phone.
Maybe a few would get it through the carrier and incurr an additional monthly charge, but that’s becoming more rare.
A 600$ phone should last at least 6 years and be much more reliable than Android ever could.
A phone that will last 2 years you can easily get for 200$.
What phone lasts 6 years today? Even a six year old iphone is a Iphone 4s. It got its last software os update a year ago, so not far off. But it was really pretty terrible performance with IOS after ios 7. A friend of mine had it until maybe ios 8 came out.
So maybe an iphone if you really don’t care if your phone runs like molasses the last three years.
Bill Shooter of Bul,
There were allegations back then that apple slowed down the phones deliberately to encourage users to buy newer phones. I don’t know if that’s true, but most of us who are looking for updates aren’t looking for new features, just security and bug fixes.
I kept my old nokia for the better part of a decade because it just worked. I only replaced it with an android when the battery was dying. I’d prefer to keep my android phone for a long time too, it’s “only” two years old, but already I’m feeling pressure to throw it away because of bugs and security issues that aren’t getting fixed. I absolutely hate having to throw away perfectly good hardware, but the problem is that the bad software situation coerces users to upgrade more often than we want to. And the manufactures have negative incentives to fix it since they sell more phones this way
Edited 2017-08-09 14:44 UTC
Agreed X 1000. I think at this point my security paranoia trumps budget.
Funny you would say that, since just this morning I pulled Nokia 1100 out of my drawer, put SIM card in it and started using it as my phone. At least for now, until I need e-taxi services or GPS navigation on a regular basis again and slip SIM card back into my smartphone. Thus, my current phone is effectively 14 years old and is fully functional, in perfect working condition, with just minor scratches on the back and very slightly worn keypad.
The smartphone at the moment is relegated to being a portable music player.
removable battery and sd card, standard sized extended battery gets 4-5 days of use without google framework (also without googles framework you get enhanced privacy)
Installing LinageOS ensures your OS is bang up to date and includes Googles monthly security updates.
You can pick the S3 up for almost 10% the price of the S8
so NO the S8 is NOT the best phone you can buy right now!
Just why would you link to such things that are obviously nothing more than an advertisement disguised as an “article”?
Or are you one of those people who take such articles (and such websites as “The Verge”) seriously?
I’ve used several Android phones, then bought an iPhone and realized how much iPhone is better than the others. Its simple, logical, elegant, clean system with nice hardware. Even the absence of filesystem which frustrates many people I see as a feature: as a user, I don’t need to know how the information is stored in my phone, and database is much more logical then files (Be File System anyone?) It surely is expensive, but it’s worth every penny of its price.
I’m moving all of the eco-system in my home to Apple. iPads, Apple TVs (currently has two), iPhones, Power Mac G4 MDD as a side computer, HomeKit-supported devices for the “smart house”, — you name it, chances are I have it. My next main computer will be the Mac Pro. The price is high, but I still see it worthy.
You might be better off waiting for the rumored modular Mac Pro that we may get next year. Otherwise, you’re wasting money on the Trash Can unless it meets a specific need like six monitor support. Rather than spend $3000+ on it, you would be better off spending ~$800 on a 2010-2012 classic Mac Pro, then buy the new modular model when it comes out. You may even find that the classic Mac Pro meets your needs for the long run, especially given you’re making do on a MDD G4.
At least, that’s what I’d do.
Edited 2017-08-08 18:29 UTC
The Apple ecosystem is the most overrated nonsense in the tech space. Apple’s web services are so lacking it baffles me people actually consider it an advantage. Slap a high price tag on it and the sheep automatically think it’s premium. Amazing. Bless you.
Apple doesn’t know shit about web services. Just ignore them and sync your contacts with Google. And I say that as a convinced iPhone owner.
Basically, for anything Apple, the hardware and the base OS is fine; for online services go somewhere else.
Yes. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Apple hardware is top notch.
Nontechnical users don’t understand filesystems anyway…
$1000aud phones. No thanks. Crack that S8 edge screen and it’s in the bin.
Second-hand iPhones. All the features without the price.
Nokia 1100?
I’ll get my coat…
My very favorite (from teenage years), the best phone of all times! I still have it in my desk drawer, in good condition, and battery still lasts 2 weeks on standby…
Easy, any middle range Android device having a price of not more than 300 euros.
Because in Portugal, where most people can dream about earning a salary above 500 euros, the iPhone prices or Android flagship devices is just plain robbery.
In other words, fragile, terrible curved screen, slippery, and impractical.
But that in essence sums up what The Verge and similar pseudotech sites like.
My family is using the Galaxy s4 mini.
You find it used for 50-70€.
Supports lte, oled screen, very light and small, good performance (1.5 gb ram and decent Qualcomm Krait cpu cores) and battery life, supported by lineageos with unlocked bootloader, removable battery, sd card slot.
It’s main drawback is the camera quality.
Most have it on stock, and I installed Lineage on 3 of them for those who cared and wanted ad blocking.
Edited 2017-08-08 11:53 UTC
I am a professional programmer that does software for Android and Linux, including the occasional Android port to custom hardware, kernel drivers included.
However, my personal phone is an iPhone because I simply cannot be bothered to do maintenance on my phone like you need to do on a Windows install. Sorry, but Android is very similar to Windows in stability and problems, and not to Linux. It’s probably because every linux service they still use (and that’s not many) has one or two java layers over it.
That being said, I have some Huawei and Lenovo devices for testing Android apps and they work remarkably well considering the price.
I wouldn’t touch Samsungs with a ten foot pole. They somehow think they know how to do software. They never have and I’ve lost hope they ever will.
Edit: I don’t like phatblets so I use the “cheap” iPhone SE. I might consider getting the large iphones the day they include a wheelbarrow to carry them around
Edited 2017-08-08 13:18 UTC
Weird that you say that, because my experience with Windows vs. Linux was completely opposite: with Linux, you’re always banging your head against the wall when something very basic (audio, video, you name it) either does not work or breaks for no reason. Or if you want to install something just to find out that “something” needs 17 dependencies, and 9 of those 17 dependencies must be of a particular version/flavor/etc., and that particular version/flavor/etc. can no longer be found in your default repos. I consider you to be a masochist if you enjoy using Linux.
With Windows, however, everything just works… And it’s rock-solid, stable, completely maintenance-free. I cannot remember a single thing I would do for maintenance on my Windows computers (non-server versions, that is).
what crazy ass distro is that? Gentoo or arch?
Debian or Fedora based distros haven’t had that kind of a problem in decades.
With linux, if you want to be masochistic, you can, but you don’t have to
It’s often not about distro, but about a particular application. And I almost always use Debian or CentOS (unless I want to experiment, then I would try any random distro just to see how it goes).
In short, I really wanted to switch to Linux on my desktop for quite some time. I wasn’t able to find a distro that would be even remotely as easy to use and as maintenance-free as Windows. Every single one has been a pain in the ass.
Edited 2017-08-09 07:24 UTC
Were you trying to use it like windows?
Because I’ve only experienced that kind of pain for programs from outside of the repos.
In short, if it’s not in the repos, and there’s no PPA, don’t install it. Simple.
OK, great, I’ll just go and use Linux without the software I need. That will be swell. All my problems will disappear, since my computer will be off all the time. Why didn’t I think of this ingenious solution before!
Edited 2017-08-10 08:55 UTC
What was the software?
If the developer can’t be bothered submitting it to the repos, it’s probably not maintained and shouldn’t be used.
Besides Thai, who uses desktop apps in 2017? You have a browser.
Was this some kind of sarcasm? Because I didn’t get it.
CATs,
Yeah, sounds like woegjiub’s needs are more basic than ours, but it doesn’t matter, different people different needs
I’m just completely amazed that he seriously thinks all desktop apps can be replaced with web apps. To have such mentality you have to be either unbelievably ignorant or a very, very, very basic user. The only real-life case I know where desktop apps can be completely replaced by web apps is my >60 year old father who’s computer skills can be illustrated by this example: to point and click, he moves the mouse first, then raises his hand off the mouse and pushes the mouse button with a finger from high above.
That was a typo, my bad.
Webapps can do everything desktop apps can do; apart from a terminal and a browser, you don’t need native GUI apps.
Edited 2017-08-10 12:35 UTC
woegjiub,
That’s a gross generalization at best. Pure webapps have numerous limitations: crippled access local resources, difficulty managing files, less integration, databases, higher bandwidth requirements, networking limitations, less capacity, less control, less privacy, more latency, etc.
To the extent that you can do anything behind a pure dumb terminal connected remotely (ie RDP), well sure a browser can do that, but you merely moved the desktop. This could work for light needs, but the performance is certainly worse. A former employer did this and rolled out new development procedures where we’d do all our work inside remote RDP sessions. In theory it makes software licensing/management far easier and hardware costs much lower if our local machines are literally just dumb terminals. They ultimately abandoned it though since performance was awful and we became much less productive when forced to do work remotely.
If webapps cover all of your needs, then great, but CATs is right, it’s absurd to reduce everyone’s needs to your level. In your case, it doesn’t sound like you need a PC at all.
Edited 2017-08-10 13:39 UTC
Oh, I definitely need a desktop, but I just do everything of worth in a terminal, and interface with everything via python or directly in a TUI like neovim.
It’s obviously hyperbole to say nobody needs desktop apps… For now. They’re a dying breed. With HTML5 having advanced as far as it has, most desktop apps are obsolete. Webassembly and WebGL are going to do away with most of the rest. Email, office, image editing… All done perfectly without GUI filth.
CAD, modelling, video editing etc. aren’t far behind.
Edited 2017-08-10 13:52 UTC
woegjiub,
Well, the thing is if this were true and HTML5 is all that mattered, then Firefox OS, Ubuntu Phone, Sailfish OS, Tizen, etc would have been far more popular platforms. Even jobs envisioned the iphone as a web only device, but the demand for local apps caused him to change his mind.
Some people feel HTML5 should replace everything everywhere, but the market so far hasn’t accepted that, quite the opposite. The market has been extremely harsh to platforms over the lack of local apps, even including windows phones.
Maybe it’s just me, but it really seems the main push for webapps is being driven by advertisers (including google) rather than consumers themselves.
Edited 2017-08-10 14:23 UTC
I think those platforms were just before their time. SaaS has too many advantages, and with upcoming tools like service workers and web components, the web is only getting more powerful.
The litany of desktop apps that have fallen into obsolescence is only going to increase
woegjiub,
For some people maybe, but at least for me it’s not moving in a direction that would overcome my need for local apps. That’s the thing, everyone has different needs, which is the main point I’m trying to get across.
What needs do you have that require your software to run outside of the browser?
Client-side javascript (and soon, wasm) can definitely run offline and access local files. It’s likely a matter of your tools of choice not having been written as webapps yet, as opposed to it being a shortcoming of the platform.
Actually, I’ve just been looking, and it’s better than I’d anticipated.
There’s extremely featureful tools for web-based 3D modelling, CAD, graphic design, photography, video editing, and office.
Unless you’re locked into a platform from proprietary filetypes, what’s missing?
WTF? You’re joking, right? Because if you are serious, I would have to conclude you are incredibly basic and naive computer user.
Edited 2017-08-10 14:41 UTC
CATs,
Gosh, I agreed with you that woegjiub was being too presumptuous about the needs of desktop users, but I really find this ad hominem attack offensive. If you can help it for the sake of civility, please don’t resort to this kind of post.
Edit: I see you’ve edited your post, so I’ll remove the quotation from mine
Edited 2017-08-10 14:52 UTC
Well, I mean, I assumed he was just trolling posting such absurd things, thus I responded appropriately. But after your comment I realized he might actually be just a very basic PC user and has no idea about complex ways other people use computers. So I edited my response.
CATs, the very opposite is true: I’m an extremely advanced computer user, so I don’t need to use GUI apps.
I use a tiling window manager and terminals, with most of my computing being programming server-side software (hence, no UI).
It pisses me off to see people with multiple tabs or multiple windows open at once. Open something, work on it, close it. You’ve got a fast computer for a reason. If something takes more than 5 seconds to open, throw it away (see: IDEs, etc.)
It pisses you off to see people multitasking on computers??? :-O And you still have the audacity to call yourself “advanced computer user”? That’s just hilarious… Why don’t we all just go back to non-multitasking operating systems then? And while we’re there, why not go back to single-core processors? Multitasking is the essence of productivity. I’m sorry, but you just proven yourself to be a very ignorant computer user. There’s no way anyone would believe you are “advanced”, even if you somehow learned one very narrow specialty and one very narrow and extremely limited way of using computers.
Edited 2017-08-11 06:37 UTC
That’s extremely belittling. Please keep your tone civil.
My job is literally programming. I don’t “think I know some programming”.
It’s far more advanced to use daemons and software I’ve written to do the things I want than it is to f–k around with GUIs. I don’t need to click buttons and use menus, instead I can directly modify files, databases, etc. It’s more efficient, and more difficult. How is that less advanced?
I see coworkers with multiple monitors and hundreds of tabs and apps open, yet at the end of the day I’m more productive with vim and almost nothing else. Remember that the human brain can’t actually multitask; we serial single task.
If you think you need multiple things open at once, chances are you’d be better served with a higher level single task that abstracts them both away and gets what you need from each.
Edited 2017-08-11 08:11 UTC
That’s absurd…
Essentially, you’re like a cripple in a wheelchair, who sees a marathon runner and thinks he’s a fool, because “why would you use your legs when you have wheelchair?”
Well, considering you’ve never seen or used any code I’ve written, I’m going to go ahead and ignore your opinion on that.
What do you use a GUI for? I guarantee the majority of those use cases can be replaced by well programmed tools, terminal interfaces, and web apps.
It’s a little awkward that you don’t understand programming computers to do things for you is infinitely more powerful than manually clicking around.
Nope, it’s not, wrong again. You’re not “programming computer to do things for you”. You are simply using computer in such a basic way for such simplistic tasks that the complexity and power of GUIs escape you completely.
Edited 2017-08-11 10:14 UTC
Well, given that every single thing you’ve listed can be done perfectly with just terminal and web apps, and you’re doing quite a few things manually that should be programatically defined, it looks like you’re the one doing things inefficiently.
Keep your browser tasks in bookmarks if you open them 1-2 times a day or less, and pin the tabs you use more than that.
Desktop notifications from your browser will alert you instantly of anything you need to action.
As one friend once said, you can send your e-mails perfectly with just telnet, but there are better ways to do things. Seeing how you try to force yourself to do absolutely every single task using only terminal and web apps, I am beginning to think you have some kind of weird neurosis or anxiety disorder related to these things.
Unlikely. I just don’t like wasting time. It’s more efficient to do exactly the things you need, and no more.
Please google, for example, “slack cpu usage”.
Which is why you use a terminal-based slack client. Not seeing the issue here.
Needs graphics? Belongs in a browser.
Doesn’t need graphics. Belongs in the terminal.
woegjiub,
Yes, but again with major caveats and limitations
https://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/dndfiles/
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/371875/local-file-access-with-ja…
I’d be impressed if you could point me to a backup application that works 100% from a standard browser with no native helper processes. Or even just a local file search utility would be useful.
Edit: To be clear, browsers could solve all of these limitations, however it’s at odds with their goal to make untrusted code run safely on the local machine. Consider how “old java” and activeX were shunned for their large attack surfaces. This is the reason why browser apps are unlikely to ever become as capable as native apps. While you may not care about these native capabilities, there are some of us who do. Fair enough?
Edited 2017-08-11 05:17 UTC
For most of those use cases, I use terminal apps (especially music, searching, torrents etc.), but there are certainly users who sit in a middle zone, not satisfied with what web apps can do, but not comfortable with using terminal daemons and tools.
I do see the majority of users being able to be completely satisfied with web apps in time, but I’ll admit that there is a subset that will want GUI apps that have native functionality.
In my past experience (many years ago) with Linux being my main “Desktop” OS I would have to agree. Once I grew tired of dealing with all you mention but still liked the Linux/Unix environment, I went to Mac OS X. The last couple of versions of Mac OS X has gotten so bad (been going downhill since Snow Leopard) I eventually went Windows 7, and now Windows 10. I feel Windows 7/10 have been very stable and fast if you are using reliable drivers. In my testing doing the same work flow (using the same apps in similar ways on a dual book Macbook), I found Windows 10 to be faster then Mac OS X, and just as reliable (if not more). So currently I use Windows 10 on my Macbook and couldn’t be happier with the speed and stability of it, and I keep it on deferred upgrades to minimize the times I am forced to reboot to apply updates. So I agree with this quoted comment for sure.
I bought a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4x and it is an incredible device for the cost (~£151 + ~£29 shipping/import tax). It is easily better than my LG G4 (now a very expensive brick that I need to flog on ebay for spare parts) and new G4s still retail for ~£350.
Most people that know I’m a nerd just assume I use an Android phone so that I can have complete control over the phone.
First of all, the idea that you have complete control over your Android phone is a joke and of the cruelest kind. There are many, many things that you have zero control over on Android phones. I know, part of my job is to support organizational people that use smart phones including iPhones and Android phones.
Both are there very frustrating limitations. For me, the biggest limitation is 90% Google’s fault. But for them to get Android out to the most companies so that they use Android instead of their own OS or some other OS they had to make some very bad choices that have kept Android far behind when it comes to security. You can say that isn’t true but so far we’ve not had any hacked iPhones but have had more than a few people with hacked Android phones.
I’d say that I could blame people for most of the security issues but at the root of the way their phones got hacked, it is much harder to hack an iPhone in the way they got hacked. Being on this website you already know what those are.
But that is about organizational smart phones. What about me?
No device is perfect. If there ever was a perfect phone or device out there, you would go out and buy as many as you possibly could so that if the one you have now fails, you would have another one of the perfect devices ready. But there are no perfect devices.
Then there is, “The most perfect device for you” or “The most perfect device for me”. Both of these statements could have an answer that is totally different. And I’m –very– happy about this. If companies don’t have competition they are not forced to improve their devices as quickly as they have to while keeping prices are low as possible.
Innovate too slowly and you are left behind and die. Charge too much and too few people will buy your product and your company will either have to lower the price or die. If your R&D and production costs are too high compared to what you have to sell your product for, your company has to figure something out or die.
All of this is a win/win for customers. I would prefer that there were more than two players in the field. In the last several years there have only been two with different third companies appearing to be catching up and then something in their company (usually one of the three things above that I described) is happening and they can’t sustain their business and they shrivel up and usually due.
For me personally, the iPhone is the best phone for me. It could be that I might be the only person in the world this is true for, but that obviously isn’t true. As I said before, no company is perfect. They are all flawed in some way or another. The issue you have to be concerned about is what flaws are the biggest bad points for you. For me, that is Android and Samsung. Combined they are the Achilles heal of Samsung phones.
For –me– the services on the iPhone are the strongest part of why I like iPhones. Being able to pick up another Apple device and continue on with what I was creating is a big deal for me. And sometimes it is best to be typing on my iPad Pro or my iMac while taking pictures and pasting them into the same document using my iPhone and having those updates appear on all devices.
I know quite a few Android users that think that Apple’s services suck. And they may for them. But we are all different beings and have different requirements. No one device is perfect for everyone. This isn’t perfect for me but is definitely less of a problem for me than with Android devices.
I truly hope you are happy with yours. I’m very happy with mine.
These are by far the best bang for buck phones on the market.
Only if you feel like replacing them fairly often. I’ve had two of them (an original G and a G2) and, while I like them, they just weren’t built well. Both failed in less than a year of moderate use. On top of that, the 8 gB limitation in the G2 (even with the ability to add a micro SDHC card) became a problem because of the way Google has gimped SD card support from 4.4 upward.
I wanted to like them, but I can’t recommend them if you want a phone that will last for a while.
After much research and phone-fondling I finally found the best phone. Kyocera DuraXV.
Non-slab ergonomics. No data plan needed. Excellent tactile feedback. Works with gloves. Large easy-to-read buttons. No screen glare. Great sound and mic. And a battery life of 18 days! (Bite it, Apple)
🙂
Yeah, yeah, 18 days on paper. Which most likely translates to about a week of real-world usage, at best. For a rugged phone, it has relatively tiny battery (only 1500mAh). My last rugged phone had 2500mAh battery and it would last 3 weeks in real-world (on paper it was maybe 60 days, I don’t remember).
Huawei are my favourite phones now, after years of Samsung.
I hate iOS and related phones/tablets. I only bought an iPad 2 and I sold it immediately. IOS has been called a golden cage, with good reason. Consider I was for 7 years the most active InsanelyMac administrator. Now I retired myself.
Didn’t know this was still a thing. It’s usually the best until the next phone comes out.
If you’ve got the service from Apple then it’s hard beating their offer. Music, video, streaming, connectivity between all Apple devices and instant replacements if something goes wrong.
Discuss as you will about this being bad or not but consumers just use software to consume their media from one “reputable” source.
iPhone was the first device to include all Apple services in one device and this was the main thing that made it this popular despite all of its restrictions.
Sadly there still are countries where Apple doesn’t even offer movies let alone stores close by. It can be a hard decision there but diversity is good.
You are assuming that everybody lives in the USA and has unlimited 4G data.
The Apple ecosystem is a frickin’ nightmare in countries like Australia where small data plans are the norm. The constant updates and stupid iTunes syncing costs a fortune.
If it is too expensive to sync content over cellular, don’t turn that on, just perform updates when you are on wifi, or get your updates by actually syncing with iTunes on a computer.
Bizarre. I get 3GB a month from Optus for $30, and absolutely never use it all. Maybe it’s because of the $100 unlimited 100 megabit NBN (TPG and Internode both offer this as long as you’re in an area with FTTP, which happens to be almost all of Southern Tasmania)
Australia is pretty damned cheap for fast data.
If you never used a Jolla with SailfishOS you missed one of the best operating systems out there.
The device is now 4 years old and still rocks the newest version of the OS rock solid.
Is that newest version of OS also 4 years old?
OS without an apps? No, thanks.
Russian gov is pushing it and we have new (low-end) hardware like Inoi R7.
But this is DOA even if i consider to buy it for lulz.
Edited 2017-08-09 12:24 UTC
I have never spent more than 150e on a phone, nor I intend to change that… My old Nokia 6303 still works like a charm, has a battery that still lasts about a week and is my main phone. I also have cheap Chinese 4.7″ Android phone, mostly for internet, gps and playing music while riding a bicycle…
Apparently, a fellow here recommending my favorite Nokia 1100 is onto something:
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/91388/20151005/the-best-selling-m…
It was world’s best-selling phone, hands down. And it was a low-end el. cheapo, not a high-end model like The Verge wants us to believe… Apparently, “best for most people” is cheap enough and good enough to just do the job.
I found their naming of the surface as the best laptop quite interesting. They did so at the top of the article, then listed the score, then other laptops and their scores. An HP scored higher than the Surface, yet they still named the Surface as best. Kind of makes me question whether they are reviews, or paid for adverts.
Exactly what I was saying. And Thom linking such ads here makes me feel not very good about OSNews, either.
Me too. If we’re talking Surface, I think the HP Spectre x2 is a better Surface than the Surface
For some family members I recently recommended the spectre x360 and the xps13, and they’re quite happy with them. Otherwise, for my needs, the new X1 Carbon is the only thing I would buy right now.
Anyway, this whole thing only shows that there are actually some pretty good devices to choose from right now, which is really nice.
RE: MS Surface
Coincidentally, I came across this article yesterday;
https://www.consumerreports.org/laptop-computers/microsoft-surface-l…
RE: Best smartphone for most people
If most people are either like my mom or teenagers, then I suppose the iPhone would be the obvious winner. The iPhone is the only computing device my mom has ever felt comfortable using. As for teenagers, I’ve heard that iOS handles that pokemongrel game better than Android. Problem with the iPhone would be price, obviously. “Most people” in rich first-world neighbourhood doesn’t equal “most people” in the whole world.