Summing up these 45 pages, one can say that Microsoft basically grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write with and on your devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties. The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent “or as necessary”.
You done got Scroogled.
Considering the “license” has no legal bearing anywhere, and even if it did you can’t grant the right to do something illegal to you… Why would we care?
You’re not from the states, I’m guessing. EULAs are absolutely binding here, much to our misfortune.
EULA also have full legal standing in Burma and Jamaica. (Coincidentally also the other two countries still not on the metric system)
Ah, US and the metric system, protectionism at the worst level :
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/05/opinions/marciano-america-go-metr…
http://science.howstuffworks.com/why-us-not-on-metric-system4.htm
For a mere 360 million $, I’ll do their metric conversion. A little batch script and voila.
Kochise,
Haha. You know it’s one thing to go back and update existing schematics – I say leave them as is. But that we’re continuing to use english units with every new generation of products is what’s holding us back in perpetuity.
What we need is a clean break. We must completely substitute metric for English units in schools. No more 12in rulers or yardsticks! Industry would adapt.
I don’t know about how quickly industry woudl change. For things that have frequent upgrade cycles in tooling, yes they would be fine. But when I was working in a factory, they had some tools that went back a good 50 years.
I understand why metric is clearly superior on the whole. But man, those imperial units are pretty good at certain quantities of things. How you measure does influence the dimensions of what you produce.
So for some British people (Well two that I’ve talked to about this issue) that lived through the metric transition the hardest thing was liquids. A quart of milk was perfect for some people, but then after the transition all they had were half liters .750 liters and liters. A quart is exactly 0.946353 liters. So quart is a little less.
A quart of milk has 592 calories a Liter has 625.559384 calories. So drinking a liter of milk a week adds almost 34 calories per week. Per year that’s almost an additional day’s of calories( 1745).
Obviously, that’s not a *huge* deal, but things like that will happen across the board. On the aggregate there will be winners and losers with shifting to metric for all packaging and measuring if companies move towards rounder numbers in the new system.
Funny, but food is where you see the metric system the most in the US. It’s that “super-size” mentality. It’s been a LONG time since I’ve seen quart or half gallon bottles of soda – it’s all 1, 2, or 3 liter bottles these days. And if it’s a little larger than a quart, you’re just super-sizing your drink!
If you see “weird” sizes for cans of food, it’s probably been converted from metric to English units. For example, ever notice that cans of tuna aren’t 6 oz any more? That’s because they’re now 150 mL… which is 5 oz (well, 5.07, but that .07 can be ignored for labeling).
Well, yes and no.
In the stores you’ll see
Soda:
.5, 1 and 2 liters in bottles.
Also in 8, 12 oz cans and bottles.
Milk:
1/2 pint 1 pint, 1 liter, 1 quart ,2 quarts, 1 gallon
Edit: but yes the real legal requirement is that they be in metric. So you’ll see that on any container regardless of what measuring system is the most prominent.
Edited 2015-07-29 19:45 UTC
I see mostly 20oz bottles of pop treated as a “single” serving.
Yeah, then there are the big gulps. 20z seems small when compared to the double gulp. ‘Murca
http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/tall-cold-tale-big-…
I grew up in a 7-11 deprived area. Which is why I don’t have diabetes yet.
Australia made a complete transition from imperial to metric in less than five years back in the early 70s. We had dual measures for a few years then all imperial units were simply banned outright. It worked extremely well.
By the way it is illegal to bring a 12 inch ruler (or any other non-metric measuring device) into Australia!
We need more than that. Cookbooks, HVAC systems, appliances, cars, roads. Everything would have to be changed at once. School would never be enough for a clean break, especially if we just have to use English units at home anyway. What you have to use in your life gets far more priority in your brain than some crap learned in school. Basically you’re looking at one hell of an annoying transition period no matter what approach you take, whether it’d be good in the long term or not. Our culture doesn’t think long-term.
darknexus,
Well, I also think an ancillary benefit to educating children on metric in school now is that it will create more familiarity and grassroots demand. We don’t want to cause public alarm.
Edited 2015-07-30 16:28 UTC
Jamaica converted to metric system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Jamaica
What you think is Liberia.
No, no, no.
You guys got it all wrong!
We already agreed to switch in 1975.
Look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act/
The transition just takes a little bit longer than anticipated…
Edited 2015-07-30 16:34 UTC
Not quite. No agreement is valid where the terms are illegal. If any part of the EULA lacks clear legality or clear legal precident, the entire thing can be challenged.
You can write anything you want in an EULA, agreement, or contract. Signing it doesn’t automatically make it legally binding. There’s a difference between signing an agreement and that agreement being legally enforceable.
Because by putting it in the license, they are explicitly saying “we will record what you do”, whereas in the past it was assumed that they did, even when they denied it, but wasn’t “set in stone” so to speak.
This gives me pause even though the only Windows 7 license I have is my gaming PC. All I do on it is play games from Steam and GOG, but even that is none of Microsoft’s business.
I think I’m going to hold off a while before upgrading.
does anyone think that this is really news?
What is news is that MS is now so blatant about it.
I am sure there won’t be long to wait before details on how ALL if this snooping can be stopped.
Let battle commence.
I’ll probably be blocking all MS domains and IP addresses in my Router.
compare this with Apple who seem to be very upfront about never selling your data to third parties.
Considering Apple own their own ad network (iAd) I wouldn’t take any of that at face value were I you.
That’s actually a really good reason for them not to share data – it gives their own ad network a competitive edge over anyone else.
A wholly owned ad network isn’t a third party
Um, yes. The same as Google, which Apple like to contrast themselves to.
Sure, absolutely agreed.
However it’s still not a third party (in THAT case) that they’re selling data to (same for Google), which is what the earlier posts suggested.
I think you should read Apple’s privacy policies. You’ll be in a for a surprise.
Disclosure to Third Parties
At times Apple may make certain personal information available to strategic partners that work with Apple to provide products and services, or that help Apple market to customers. For example, when you purchase and activate your iPhone, you authorize Apple and your carrier to exchange the information you provide during the activation process to carry out service. If you are approved for service, your account will be governed by Apple and your carrier’s respective privacy policies. Personal information will only be shared by Apple to provide or improve our products, services and advertising; it will not be shared with third parties for their marketing purposes.
Tim Cook
As marketing people usually say: if you’re not paying for something, you’re not the customer; you’re the product being sold.
We all know why Microsoft and Apple are profitable, They are “evil” but their business is very traditional, We know from where their money comes… We cannot say the same about other “non-evil” companies you know…
Hating Microsoft sounds so 90s… xD
That seems a bit excessive, when all you have to do is uncheck a couple boxes the first time you log in.
Don’t bother being sane and reasonable, this is a Microsoft bashing thread.
Do you trust them to obey those boxes?
Go to “Settings” –> “Privacy” and turn it off?
I guess that was too difficult.
Q: Is there anything in “agreement” which exceeds what Microsoft, Google and Apple have been doing for years already?
A: Not one single bit!
I expect the biggest difference will be the level of integration. Whereas previously Windows was built to work perfectly well without a Microsoft account, from now on the assumption will be that you’re using one, and many Windows services will be unavailable without. As a result users will be implicitly agreeing to a lot more access to their data than would otherwise be the case.
As you point out, this is really only aligning Windows with the status quo as it is on phone OSes already.
You can just use a local account instead of a microsoft account….
I didn’t look into the details, but I’m guessing you’ll quickly start losing services (Cortana, bookmark syncing, OneDrive, Office 365, Windows Store, etc.) if you only use a local account.
You can log at least into Windows Store and OneDrive with your Microsoft Account even when using a local account everywhere else if you wish.
Your assumption would be wrong. You can actually do more without a Microsoft account now than in Windows 8/8.1. Many apps (and all Microsoft Apps as far as I know) will support your microsoft account by default but will allow you to use another account per app. Not using any account at all is possible as well, but not realistic for most apps.
Of course most users would be best of with the “mobile” system of “1 account (per user) for everything”
As I had the opportunity to write about for another article in the past (I think it was about something similar from Google), the key here is to differentiate.
Use one provider for e-mails, another for cloud hosting, another one for web search… And so on. Giving up some integration might be well worth a bit more privacy.
And use social networks sparingly and judiciously. Or – if possible – don’t use them at all… 😉
I was at a red light yesterday. Next to me was a grown woman driving a nice BMW with the top down. She had two children in the car with her. Her eyes were glued to her cellphone, scrolling through what I assume were Facebook or Instagram posts. She was so oblivious to her surroundings that it took a minute to realize the cars that started honking were honking at her because the light had turned green and she was holding everybody up. Whatever stupid shit she was looking at was apparently more important than anyone else. I felt sorry for the kids. Hopefully they made it home ok and weren’t killed thanks to their distracted driver.
So yeah, I agree with you on using “social” networks.
Bad thing is, if we do our math properly, next time you’ll cross her car you’ll see three cellphone-toters aboard… D-:
Edited 2015-07-29 20:11 UTC
I never thought that this day would come, but here I am, playing the the devil’s advocate — for Microsoft, no less! 😉
“By default, when signing into Windows with a Microsoft account, Windows syncs some of your settings and data with Microsoft servers […] Users can however deactivate this transfer to the Microsoft servers by changing their settings.”
So not really a big deal, as long as you are aware of the functionality, you can disable it.
“More problematic from a data protection perspective is however the fact that Windows generates a unique advertising ID for each user on a device.”
I haven’t touched Windows 10 yet, but on my Windows Phone with the latest update this “feature” can also be easily disabled: Settings -> System -> Advertising ID.
“Also, when device encryption is on, Windows automatically encrypts the drive Windows is installed on and generates a recovery key. The BitLocker recovery key for the user’s device is automatically backed up online in the Microsoft OneDrive account.”
I agree that this one is potentially ripe for abuse, but if someone manages to get access to your recovery key, he also needs (physical) access to the OS itself and, if this happens, you clearly have much bigger problems to worry about. Besides, what are the alternatives? Would you prefer to lose the recovery key and be locked out of your PC?
“To enable Cortana to provide personalized experiences and relevant suggestions, Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device.”
Is anyone one really surprised by this? I mean: personal assistants, software or otherwise, need to know about you and “your stuff”. Magic would be nice and telepathy is a close second, but “poking around” will have to do for the time being. For what is worth, I won’t use Cortana, but mostly because I find it really weird to talk to a computer — not to mention the fact that I curse, swear and shout on a regular basis.
“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary toâ€
This is the real worrisome part, if you ask me. But I don’t do mail on Windows (or OS X) and your ISP, the NSA & C. can peek at your mail anyway; and don’t forget that if you use Dropbox, GoogleDrive, OneDrive, etc. you’re pretty much serving them your data on a silver platter. But you know what? Maybe for some people convenience is worth more than privacy, I don’t know. In fact I don’t even use Windows as a general purpose computing platform, only as as a glorified Xbox/Playstation: turn it on, play some game for a bit, turn it off.
To summarize: I don’t think that there’s nothing new or surprising about what Microsoft is putting in “the fine print”. It’s bad, but pretty much anyone else is just as guilty and the only difference is that Microsoft is being upfront about it — at least with the brave souls who will take the time to read all that stuff. Those who are serious about privacy and “data ownership” already know to use something else. And again, I’m not talking about OS X either. We are lucky enough to have many alternatives that are certainly good enough for general purpose computing — just take your pick.
RT.
Edited 2015-07-29 12:48 UTC
Finally someone else on this thread seeing a bigger picture.
Basically if anyone wants to take advantage of syncing between devices so you can move from device to device and have the same expectation (ie. if did something under the MS account on one device some will hope Windows is smart enough to know you did that when switching to another device.) The information to facilitate this has to be collected and sent somewhere.
For Cortana to be anywhere as predictive as it’s billed to be there’s gotta be some aggressive data mining to ‘get to know’ the user.
A lot of this comes at a cost as it does with Google, Apple and others. They advertise to you unless you opt out. And to do that effectively they need to identify you somehow.
Some of this is overreaching and can be dialed back. But to anyone in the IT field who’s had a hint of some of Windows 10 and Cortana’s capabilities, just how was any of it going to be accomplished if your data was never used? Where was the data going to come from?
The biggest concern of any of this should be, How well is the data being secured? Who is it available too? Can I be personally identified with the data as stored should it be stolen or placed in 3rd party hands?
New operating systems are trying to get the device to be more and more of an extension of the user as possible. The amount of processing needed to the predictive info, the mechanics of syncing devices remotely and automatically, always have access to your data regardless of device or location cannot happen if nothing is ever collected.
Plain and simple if you don’t want to use any of those capabilities, turn them off. No more data collection.
In terms of “rights to this or that” “freedoms” and “privacy” (as well as “interoperability” aka “it just works” and “lost cost/FrEe”)
ultimately as far as digital connectedness, all thing cloud etc etc go – we’re truly in the post-Zuckerberg, post-Snowden, flip_me-Stallman_was_right privacyless wonderland now
BUT as least as far as public outcries, observable fairness, and most importantly EXPECTATIONS go – I say the following :
Web Services (especially “free ones”) – you can but expect there to be invasions of so called privacy, you can expect anything “cloud”-saved, backed-up etc to probably be plundered left and right and willy nilly
Installed “owned” OSes – no, unless you strongly strongly opt-in (with clearly offered paths of avoidance) – then NO, no no no – it should NOT be considered fair, or expected, for any of the data (especially anything other than programme log files or data essential to networked services in question) to be stolen, appropriated, uploaded, used without your consent, and similar
/end rant
And all of this stuff is really easy to opt out of if you click the button to choose your own defaults instead of accepting them.
Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Android; Mobile; rv:39.0) Gecko/39.0 Firefox/39.0
Can you opt out of built-in Windows DRM[1]?
1. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows_1.html
Easily: don’t watch any content that requires DRM.
Not that that has anything to do with the conversation beyond “ooga booga big bad Microsoft”
That’s you assuming that DRM doesn’t go anywhere beyond that. And you are sure why exactly? DRM can’t be trusted.
Beyond what? What does that even mean?
Beyond media which you mentioned.
I don’t understand. How would they extend their DRM beyond media that uses DRM? Is that what you’re suggesting they’re doing?
Or, are you just imagining something vague and nefarious lurking in the shadows?
I’m suggesting that you can’t guarantee that it’s doing only what they claim it’s doing. Because DRM is by definition untrustworthy. I.e. it’s malware-like.
Semi-Example: OSX hands off part of the video playback decryption process to the Intel Management Engine core, an SoC with internal flash RAM which, for protection from cracking, runs its closed binary OS at a higher privilege level than your OS itself.
http://www.alexrad.me/discourse/why-rosyna-cant-take-a-movie-screen…
That same management engine core has had proof-of-concept persistent rootkits in the past and, because BIOS bugs can leave it not fully disabled, it’s impossible to be sure you’re protected from ME rootkits on systems where it’s turned off in the BIOS.
http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.ca/2009/08/vegas-toys-part-i-rin…
See, that is an actual answer, and much appreciated.
Of course, since that is a flaw in Intel’s design, that is something that can happen, regardless of whether or not Windows supports the Protected Media Path, or not.
However, to satisfy the desire for DRM, AMD is starting to incorporate an ARM TrustZone core into their designs.
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/security
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/trustzone/index…
(It doesn’t act as an on-die management engine as far as I know, it just provides the “DRM enforcement via PS3 OtherOS-esque hypervisor” part that was added to the Intel ME firmware to satisfy Protected Media Path and the like.)
Thankfully, they’re prioritizing APUs over CPUs, so there are still plenty of TrustZone-free CPU SKUs if you contact support and tell them that TrustZone violates your auditing requirements and you need a list of TrustZone-bearing SKUs so you can avoid them.
Edited 2015-08-01 02:57 UTC
Right at the beginning of the setup after you’ve installed Windows 10, you can choose ‘customize settings’ and pretty much turn every single thing off. I installed it under Gnome-Boxes, skipped adding a Microsoft account and just set up a local account, worked just fine.
They pushed DRM in their systems, making it mandatory. Do you expect them not to collect info on you? Just avoid MS stuff to begin with, if you have a choice.
Edited 2015-07-29 16:45 UTC
How are the two even tangentially related? Do you even actually know what the Windows DRM components do, beyond the “oooh DRM bad!”?
I mean, your argument is essentially “Graffiti is illegal, therefore, Banksy also probably steals cars.”
Back at ayou. Do you actually know what they don’t do? DRM is created not to trust you. If you trust it back, it’s your own problem.
Even back when Mark Penn was doing those commercials, Microsoft’s privacy policy for anything except bing and mail was a joke. If you have two differing privacy policies, one says they can do anything they want, the other says they won’t do these specific things, which one would they abide by?
“You done got Scroogled.”
LOL!
I see what you did there!
The geek needs to chill out about metrification.
0 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit is a very good approximation of the range of temperatures to be expected in the U.S. Your body temperature should be about 100 degrees F.
“The greatest distance (on a great circle route) entirely within the 48 contiguous states is 2,802 miles (4,509 km, between Florida and the state of Washington); the greatest north-south line is 1,650 miles (2,660 km).
Together, the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C. occupy a combined area of 3,119,884.69 square miles (8,080,464.3 km2), which is 1.58% of the total surface area of the Earth. Of this area, 2,959,064.44 square miles (7,663,941.7 km2) is land, composing 83.65% of U.S. land area, just slightly smaller than that of Australia. Officially, 160,820.25 square miles (416,522.5 km2) is water area, composing 62.66% of the nation’s water area. The contiguous United States would be placed 5th in the list of countries and dependencies by area; the total area of the country, including Alaska and Hawaii, ranks fourth.” — Wikipedia
There are about 4 million miles/6.44 million km of paved and unpaved roads in the US —
almost none of which a visitor to the United States will ever see.
Horrible article that doesn’t even link to the 22 and 23 pages and has a summary that doesn’t seem to match their own conclusions.
Basically the only interesting thing was that Microsoft now mentioned that they might (have the right to) comply to (US) law. Which is already the case, just like everything else that is written in the examples and is mostly of by default (express settings) during setup
[quote]
Summing up these 45 pages, one can say that Microsoft basically grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write with and on your devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties. The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent “or as necessaryâ€.
[/quote]
Microsoft doesn’t grant itself those very broad rights, the user does by enabling or accepting certain options (OPTIONS!!!). There is no mentioning of selling data to third parties or “write on your devices”.
And how can a company grant ITSELF the right… when it gets your consent or has that right by law?
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