“Redhat released version 8.1 Beta 2 on January 20, 2003 and I have been running it since January 25th. In fact, the SpeedyLinux web site has been running on it for over a week. […] Based on this beta, I believe that Redhat 8.1 will be an excellent distribution due to its easy installation, comprehensive hardware detection, anticipated stability, high level of maturity, comprehensive documentation, and support options.” SpeedyLinux previews Red Hat 8.1b2. The author previewed Yoper a few days ago too.
SpeedyLinux.com Previews Red Hat 8.1 Beta 2
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
.. that since 8.0, Red Hat has ruined what used to be the best distro.
Too bloated and heavy for my taste…
Yes. ie: 175 screensavers for a “professional distribution”?
When I ran the included Mozilla web browser (version 1.2.1), I noticed that the fonts looked much improved over Redhat 8.0.
RedHat is using the XFT-enabled Mozilla, and that’s a GoodThing(TM). Why the Green Lizard Lovers doesn’t XFT-enable Mozilla by default?
Running a web site on a distrib beta version ?!
Is it really smart ?
Running anything on Linux is not smart:)
I trust the rock solid Daemon.
175 screensavers == 11MB
You are free to delete them, or even not to have installed them at all.
MrZammler
“.. that since 8.0, Red Hat has ruined what used to be the best distro… Too bloated and heavy for my taste.”
Thanks for the subjective comment. Funny, 8.0 works fine for me on my P3-450 laptop.
MarkH
“Running anything on Linux is not smart”
And thank you for the troll. Why not add something constructive, or save your OS wars for the IRC #channelz.
-fp
What kind of a review is this? What about the REAL problems with Redhat?
1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
2. Are there any changes in the multimedia packages? (especially MP3?)
3. Is the interface cleaned up? (ala menus and menu-editing)?
4. What is the state of KDE like in this release?
Where are the answers?
Or did I miss something?
1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
Probably not, they want you to purchase RedHat Network. There is nothing wrong with that. If you need apt, it’s less than 10 clicks away.
2. Are there any changes in the multimedia packages? (especially MP3?)
Again, 10 clicks away and not really a problem.
3. Is the interface cleaned up? (ala menus and menu-editing)?
I didn’t see a menu editor outside of nautilus, nautilus seems to make a fine menu editor though. The Hat menu does look like it’s been cleaned up quite a bit.
Aaah, great. Yet one of those ‘Linux sucks – BSD rul3Z!’ discussions, which will never become serious.
Throughout the last five years I’ve been running many different Linux distribution – due to my adminstratration role of a danish Linux news site (it was named LinuxNews.dk, but does not exist any more). Redhat was the first Linux I ever tried out, and I actually liked it at that time.
For a couple of months ago I decided to try out RH8.0 – the main reason was this new Bluecurve-interface. It actually looks nice and makes Linux a little easier for the masses.
But… Redhat’s problem is that they release new versions too often! In my opinion, RH should relax a little and concentrate on making better releases – and forget about those stunning graphics and ‘175 screensavers’. As a home user, I want a stable and secure system with no trouble. That’s why I use Debian, FreeBSD and Windows 2000.
1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
Probably not, they want you to purchase RedHat Network. There is nothing wrong with that. If you need apt, it’s less than 10 clicks away.
Bad. Even at IBM, while instructing you on how to administer your redhat box, they talk about dependancy hell, and end it with ‘Welcome to Linux!. Get used to it’ as if it couldn’t be solved. apt-get’s installing is too much trouble.
1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
Probably not, they want you to purchase RedHat Network. There is nothing wrong with that. If you need apt, it’s less than 10 clicks away.
Again, 10 clicks is too much, even in an office environment, just to get your MP3s playing. No, and OGG is not going to affect MP3s in offices around the world for quite some time.
3. Is the interface cleaned up? (ala menus and menu-editing)?
I didn’t see a menu editor outside of nautilus, nautilus seems to make a fine menu editor though. The Hat menu does look like it’s been cleaned up quite a bit.
Since I’m still talking about the office environment, nautilus is the stupidest way to modify my menus. And don’t tell me to use KDE instead.
Seems that my repetition of Point 1 in italics should have been Point 2.
“The hard drive is a 30 MB, 7200 RPM, IDE drive.”
>1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
>
>Probably not, they want you to purchase RedHat Network. There is nothing wrong with that. If you need apt, it’s less than 10 clicks away.
>
>Bad. Even at IBM, while instructing you on how to administer your redhat box, they talk about dependancy hell, and end it with ‘Welcome to Linux!. Get used to it’ as if it couldn’t be solved. apt-get’s installing is too much trouble.
No, not bad. RedHat Network resolves them for you. If you want apt, it’s easy to install. Locate it then double click it.
>Again, 10 clicks is too much, even in an office environment, just to get your MP3s playing. No, and OGG is not going to affect MP3s in offices around the world for quite some time.
No it’s not. If you are in an office environment then you should be using a standard desktop anyway that would include it.
>3. Is the interface cleaned up? (ala menus and menu-editing)?
>
>I didn’t see a menu editor outside of nautilus, nautilus seems to make a fine menu editor though. The Hat menu does look like it’s been cleaned up quite a bit.
>
>Since I’m still talking about the office environment, nautilus is the stupidest way to modify my menus. And don’t tell me to use KDE instead.
Right, if you are in an office environment then your desktop applications should be pushed, and your applications Icons should be a part of that push.
I installed RH 8.1 Beta2, and I liked a lot.
I dislike the 8.0 version, but this version has several improvements that I consider a good stuff:
1. They quit the “Extras” Menú.
2. The new GNOME version is very consistent, and works very well.
3. It has a better samba. They have a samba configuration tool, and I could handle samba files in a better way.
4. The GUI looks more responsive and is prettier.
5. Gstreamer rocks!
I could say that I liked very much this RH version. It has some other stuff that I don’t tested right now. The things that I don’t liked:
1. apt-get doesn’t work right now (because rpm 4.2)
2. I think that Bluecurve is nice, but very incomplete in RH 8.0, in 8.1 is better but is still incomplete (Remember that this is a Beta)
3. the mp3 problem.
4. MySQL is not a default database like 8.0 (I know that they sell postgres, but I like MySQL.
1. Is ten clicks really that bad? I haven’t installed anything on Win2k or XP, but in 98 (which is still an incredibly popular OS) it takes more than 1 click to go through the various installation “wizards”. According to many people on this site, nstalling on Windows is a dream come true.
2. For an MP3 player – if you have apt installed, again, is it ten clicks? I’m not trolling, I really do not know how it works with synaptic (anyone: please don’t resond with “sucks”).
No, it’s two steps.
apt-get install xmms-mp3
then press y
Insignia: What kind of a review is this? What about the REAL problems with Redhat?
I did not read the review but most reviews test the product from a certain perspective. Such as Joe User, Workstation, and Server perspectives. Playing MP3s in an office may not be the most productive use of the office computers.
Insignia: 1. Is apt-get installed? (plus is there a good package manager?)
How many distributions do include apt-get now? The current package managers may not be great but until either you or someone else creates a great package manager, the currents ones will have to do.
Insignia: 2. Are there any changes in the multimedia packages? (especially MP3?)
RedHat may not have multimedia packages on their high priorty list. From what I have read on RedHat’s website, they are focusing on the server and corporate workstation market. If you really need multimedia, Suse and Mandrake have the packages you need.
Insignia: 4. What is the state of KDE like in this release?
RedHat focuses on Gnome more than KDE. Do you need both KDE and Gnome? Other distributions package tons of window managers and Desktop environments.
I’m suprised that the requirements for RH 8/8.1 are so high. I’m running RH 8.0 with all the bells and whistles quite happily on a P166 with 128 (well I am using phoenix instead of moz). The biggest change I’d like to see in the new version is easy to use video stuff. It took me forever to get xine configured to play the stuff I wanted, and besides xine is really cumbersome to use.
The synaptic way or gui method goes like this:
1. Choose Synaptic from your menu.
2. Type in root password when prompted and press enter.
3. Choose xmms-mp3 from the list.
4. Press proceed and click yes on the confirmation.
Synaptic does the work for you.
As with most things the command line is faster with less steps but most folks like the idea of browsing all the packages in a visual manner and consider anything that has to be done from the command line to be a failure in the interface. So…
Anyone know if RH is supporting any other FS than just EXT3 in this release? RH81 looks like a pretty exciting release, but I much prefer ReiserFS over EXT3. I cant understand why RH hasnt added support for ReiserFS or XFS to this date.
about reiserfs… i believe you just have to pass an option to the kernel before installation (expert something or other). then it’ll show up in the options during partitioning. search at groups.google.com. that’s where i found it… i think. pathetic not to give the option by default, but it does lessen support calls.
about the video stuff. go to mplayerhq.hu. then downloads. then click the RPMs for redhat 7.x. it says 7.x but it works with 8.0. just get all the RPMs you think you’ll need. plus codecs are in RPMs now so easier to update and keep track of.
someone said nautilus is a stupid way of menu editting. well, doesn’t window let you edit the start menu through explorer only? i mean sure you could right click and delete, rename, etc. but adding and actually cleaning up the start menu for multiple users requires explorer. and no one complains about that. i don’t. easy enough. sorta like sorting files and sym links in my home directory. i’d rather do that than have another interface i’d have to learn. hopefully the creation of sym links through the gui has been improved. pain in the ass to have to type out to many options. they need to clean up “shortcut making”.
hope redhat can at least improve the file dialog for gnome2.2.
lack of apt-get is a *good* thing.
there are no decent packaging solutions for linux (or at least, no decently implemented ones). adding another format to a red hat box is not a solution, but only makes the situation worse in the short-term, and harder to fix in the long-term.
I would tend to disagree if and only if apt was enabled through the redhat-config-packages gui.
One interface to keep them one interface to bind them all.
The user would get options to enable to non-RH (ie freshrpm repositories) with a ton of warnings that they are not responsible for anything you download from there.
User would then be able to download an rpm from some little bozo site and when the dependency checks fail the apt part kicks in and resolves them for you.
If it required installing two versions of the same package (apt generally does not like this) then you get a prompt for whether or not you want to install it and warns you the package will be added to a list of packages where dups are accepted.
This is not rocket science people and I believe that Mandrake with urpmi already handles things like this. Mandrake users call me on this if I am mistaken.
best of both worlds
konquerer filemanager and kicker (nice backgrounds)
gnome panels and metacity (stable, fast, getting faster)
gkrellm w/ the invisible theme (need I say more?)
future promise of further integration
I am very pleased with Linux (RedHat 8.0.99.3) on my desktop.
Now, I would like to take this oportunity to thank each and every user, contributor, beta tester and especially you wonderful developers. Thank you for all your hard work. I love you.
I would really like to try this but unfortunately for some reason RH 8.0 refuses to work properly on my system.
It cannot probe my monitor and even if I select the correct one from the list X refuses to load, I just get a black screen.
Does anyone know how to solve this? Is it related to my ASUS mobo that has an NVIDIA chipset and an integrated GeForce2? I’m really at a loss here.
Red Hat has support reiserfs for a long time. Just not by default. When you boot to your Red Hat install discs, at the first prompt, instead of hitting enter, type
>linux reiserfs
at what I believe is a boot# prompt. now, when you get to the partitioning screen, you’ll see reiserfs as one of the choices. It’s how I configured my Red Hat PC.
Why are some of you calling this PREVIEW a review?
Why do people keep whining about lack of MP3 support out of the box in Red Hat Linux? What do you expect them to do? They cannot keeping shipping MP3 codecs *and* keep it free software. If they stopped shipping free software, you’d criticize them to no end for “ripping you off”, but if they don’t include an MP3 codec you act like they’ve made the OS worthless. Try getting after Fraunhofer for their patent hassles instead.
I do know how to install apt and synaptic on Redhat. The point is, I should not HAVE to, for installing the apps I need. Is there a legal problem with apt? Up2date can’t compare with apt for just installing a file off the ‘net.
To install apt, I have to get a sources.list, followed by apt and apt-devel, then install them first, followed by synaptic (don’t expect me to use CLI), before I can start using it.
If Redhat has problems in installing Flash, MP3 and others, I would like to have a link somewhere on their page that tells me “Click here for <insert components>”, tell me that what I am doing is illegal, and link me off somewhere else. e.g. Mandrake has the ‘PLD’ version.
Don’t get me wrong, I use both Redhat and Xandros, and Xandros has solved over a thousand of these simple issues…
You want the kitchen sink bundled in there too? God knows you shouldn’t have to install it! 😛 haha
How the heck does RH 8.0 and 8.1 make it all the way up to 3 full CD’s? From the first glance, the 2 CD of Mandrake (+ extra internationalization CD, or whatever it’s called?), seems to have far more programs on it.
Sheesh… But that’s still way too much IMO…
Some of you guys claim RH isn’t aiming @ the home user market too, well what the heck is going on with all those other packages too? I would really love it, if RedHat only came in one CD.
Leave everything else to download. Of course, with all this RH integrating stuff… That’s probably not going to happen anytime soon…
Ha ha ha. Good one.
“Again, 10 clicks is too much, even in an office environment, just to get your MP3s playing. No, and OGG is not going to affect MP3s in offices around the world for quite some time.”
So, let me get this straight. You want Redhat to either pay, or risk being sued to give you something for free? That is great idea! I don’t know why *I* didn’t think of that! I mean, obviously, when corporations are looking for a desktop, their primary concern is for employeeds to be able to play mp3s, so Redhat should cough up the money for it, right! I mean, I know if I had employees, I would want them to be listening to mp3’s downloaded onto my computer, on the clock, via company bandwidth. Redhat would rock if they would just hook up all these peeps with mp3! GO MP3!
Ok. Let’s put MP3 aside there. You may be right about the payment part. What about Flash, Java and other stuff? Don’t people in offices want to surf the web properly?
This is bull, the least distros are supporting now is 386 + FPU (aka 387) which is basically what 486 is. No FPU no modern distro.
Who bloody needs it.
Time for the world to accept a decent royalty free alternative. I have been using Ogg’s for quite a few years now and I, as a musician, whole heartedly support RedHat’s decision to not include MP3 support in their OS. My only gripe is not having DMA support on DVD/CDRom Drives but again a little more than a half line of text in the right file allows for that to be history.
Stop supporting the Fraunhofe Institute who rips off musicians. Open standards that are Royalty Free, unless you think all musicians are over paid Kylie’s of Brittany’s or other comercialised “artists” like that. Most of us are not yett the quality of product is definately better.
1. Framebuffer console frame for boot messages. Yes, it is eye candy but so is a graphical login screen and I have used it on SuSE with a laptop and no it does not slow down the boot process. I own a laptop and reboot a lot and the transition from the graphical boot menu to the console boot messages back to the graphical login is harsh and unprofessional and just damn ugly.
2. Faster Services startup. The hardware detection through kudzu takes forever and xinetd hangs there for a extra 5 seconds. Yeah you can turn kudzu off but I like kudzu. I like the fact that RH8 found my laser printer right off the bat.
3. i686 compiled packages. Redhat needs better optimized package sets. Packages should be compiled for the extremes. One set for the i386 compatible low end and for the normal range of the high end or the i686 compiled packages.
4. Package management. Tie the package management system to apt. The gui for the package management is really nice. However it needs to be tied to an apt backend to help resolve dependency issues and to give end users a higher number of packages than Redhat can or will. On first run, prompt the user if they want to use freshrpms warning them that redhat is NOT responsible for the content legal waiver blah…blah…blah. Also, if the package requires parellel installs of certain libraries (apt does not like this) the user should be prompted to add the package to the Allow-Duplicates and ask the user if they still want to continue the install.
5. By the same token, the up2date system should be enabled to allow for the download and the install of drivers from Nvidia and ATI and even enabled to handle MS fonts installation. Other online update systems handle this bit or that bit of my list but Redhat is the priemer linux distro and should handle all of it.
6. Include plugins and multimedia stuff. The plugins that Redhat can legally include like the Java stuff, Realplayer, and plugger should be included. Pay the mp3 licensing fee and for god’s sake risk to wrath of Microsoft and include avilib, and any other multimedia libs that do not obviously spell trouble like libdvd and other stuff.
7. Figure out the prelinking stuff or preloaded tricks or whatever is needed to get the large slow pain-in-the-butt c++ projects like Mozilla and OpenOffice to launch with some sort of half way reasonable speed. This is not an issue with C++ or mozilla or OpenOffice. It is a problem with linking and BAD_RELOC calls or something related to gcc,g++. Prelink came with RedHat 8.0 but was not implemented by default.
8. Crossover Office or at least Codeweaver’s version of wine should come with Redhat 8.0 to provide the linux user with something resembling a compatibility layer to ease the transition.
What the heck are you going on about? Office and MP3? why the blooming heck does one require MP3 playback in an office environment? if that is the case, can I get a 34inch plasma screen with DVD player, surround sound for my so-called “office” as well?
Keep in mind:Kick-ass business desktop.
1-This is a good idea.
2-Life is an excercise in compromise. You want hardware detection, but don’t want to pay the penalty for it.
3-I’d have to research this, but the fact that the packages were labeled i386 isn’t the big deal everyone makes it out to be. If precompiled runs slow it’s because of the “cover every contingency”.
4-For the business desktop, someone in IT usually deals withn this issue. Most business desktops don’t allow any software installation, with good reason, by the average worker.
5-See above
6-Remember business desktop. How many Windows business desktops do you know with all that stuff? Why should RedHat be an exception? For companies with an intranet, they usually customize everything to meet their particular needs.
7-Also a good idea.
8-See above.
In summary someone looking for RedHat to be a Home Distro might be happier with Mandrake, which aims for that particular market.
It is already almost a kick-ass business desktop. I am talking about a good desktop in general. I never said anything about the business desktop. I was listing the things I thought RH8 needed to be a great general desktop distro.
Pre-compiled packages optimized for the CPU do make a difference in performance and for most bigger applications it is a noticable difference for the end-user.
I want start-up in general to be faster and there are a number of us old-time unix hacks that understand that the handling of services and the backgrounding of processes connected to those services could be improved. I have used linux and unix for a long time — linux for 6 years and Solaris for 7 years, DEC Unix 2 years, SCO for 1 year.
A good windows compatibility layer with CrossOver Office is needed but not for the reason most people think. You can live off of OpenOffice for Word documents, Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations. However, even if the perfect Visio clone comes around or Project alternative there will still be that one super-specialized windows app that every office has and CrossOver does help ease this.
Also the plugin and multimedia stuff is a reaction to the simple fact of life that Red Hat’s competitors like SuSE and others include these things by default. Red Hat is not competing with MS yet on the desktop it is competing much more directly in Lindows, SuSE, Mandrake and others.
Besides I saw the line that someone in IT will deal with software installation and dependencies. How? By slapping apt underneath the wire and grabbing what they need from the command line when the boss ain’t looking. Even on the business desktop, dependency issues can possibly come into play and a solution is out there called apt use for the backend the way Mandrake uses urpmi I believe to handle resolution of dependency issues.
Just because IT has to deal with it why make it harder than it needs to be?
> It is already almost a kick-ass business desktop. I am
> talking about a good desktop in general.
As well you should be! RedHat is (and should continue to aspire to be) what I would consider to be a business optimized distribution, not a business only distro. Operating systems targeted exclusively at business machines are a relic from the last century. Today, people want to take the software they use at home and use it at work (hence the inroads Microsoft made in the server room during the late 90’s). And, the reverse is also true. People want to take the software they use at work and use it to work (and play) from home. Linux is a “Big Iron Unix” clone running on christmas-gift-from-your-family hardware for goodness sakes. So, many of the things (like multimedia) which were previously considered to be home-user-only features, are still important for RedHat to include in their distro. Why? Because the line between business OSes and home OSes has been blurred – which is a good think IMNSHO!
Well I mentioned business desktop, because that’s what Red Hat is aiming for. Not the home market. There’s something to be said for focus, just look at Mandrake. Was it’s target the home, or the business? Good at both? Good at neither?
As far as the multimedia, and installations issues. First I wouldn’t use the “sneaking under the wire” as justification for including a particular feature. Yes one can sometimes do this with one’s Windows desktop, but that usually causes headaches all around, and at most companies I’ve dealt with will get one in a heap of trouble, so no.
Second at most companies I’ve dealt with the desktop one has to deal with, isn’t a “default” desktop, but a customized one. This is traditionally handled by IT, were RedHat’s present tools are adequate for this. Then images are pushed out to the computers. After that, there may be some minor upgrading, and tweaking, were the present tools are adequate.
If one needs multimedia, and all the rest, then IT will handle it. Legal issues and all[1]. The dependency issues usually come when one wanders from the main distro;i.e. 3rd party packages. Considering the structured nature at most companies. Wandering needs to be for a good reason, and likewise IT is best able to deal with it. (There’s a reason IT gets paid the salaries they do).
Oh! And to Matt. There’s two very important reasons. At work the boss controls the computer. At home you do. If the line was as blurred as you think, then I should be able to play Warcraft , and listen to MP3s I’ve downloaded from a tiawanese site at work. However I can process words, and numbers at both locations. Guess it depends on were one wants to draw the line.
[1] That’s another thing between a business desktop, and a home one. The legalities one has to deal with.
> Oh! And to Matt. There’s two very important reasons. At work
> the boss controls the computer.
Is that really still true (not a loaded question, I really am just not convinced)? As a consultant, I found that none of the companies I consulted at put any restrictions on installations. At one client, we even reformatted our computers and rebuilt them ourselves. My current employer (I’m no longer a consultant) is the same way. I’m not saying that this is necessarily the right way to run a business. If I were CIO/CTO, I don’t think I’d really want Janet[1] in marketing putting tax software on her office computer, or Tommy the copy boy installing games for a LAN party. But, it’s been my experience that the IT folks can pretty much do what they want with their computers as long as they don’t find themselves needing to call a help desk. But even Janet and Tommy can put on headphones at work any time they liked. I still think the line between home desktop and office desktop is a little fuzzy and I’d like to see more of the Linux distros (like RedHat) package for use in both settings.
[1] Janet and Tommy are fictional characters if you hadn’t guessed already
Well bypassing the one’s who set no restrictions for a sec. ,IMHO not a wise thing for many reasons. Depending on the size of the company, as well as the org chart. IT and help desk are one and the same, to bigger companies it being seperate, but help desk being lower in the food chain. Yes, some companies run their IT department a little looser than others, depending on your CTO/CIO and what the higher ups allow. But the thing to keep in mind as to why it’s done, is to lower cost (Uniformity hardware,software), and reduce workload (how many different configurations have to be supported?). Even for the example you gave of no restrictions, could you install any software or hardware? Corporate control, if not explicit, is definately implicit, and even at the looser companies shouldn’t be forgotten. See what happens to anyone “abusing” the equipment. But not to wander too far afield, that’s the market RedHat’s targeting. Could it be improved? Of course, but it’s feature set is going to reflect the business market, and I don’t really think that’s the SOHO market either. Most business will not need the features that a Home distro will need, and for those that it does, that don’t come standard, will be installed by IT. Just like IT presently do with all their installations, be it Windows, Macs,or anything else that comes down the pike.