In preparation for the Free and Open Source Software Developers’ Meeting (FOSDEM), to be held in Brussels next week, the event organizers have published interviews with several people who will be speaking at the conference. This week, they interviewed Jon Maddog Hall, who discusses Linux and the role of Linux International, and Havoc Pennington, who covers free standards and platform interoperability.
Havoc is da man. A single desktop platform is the thing to aim for, in the same way we have a single internet but multiple implementations.
I just wish there was more stuff being standardised faster, but alas, when you sit down and thrash this stuff out it’s inevitable more complex than it first appears.
So is he yes ? Indeed he is a capable person no doubt and I don’t say anything bad about him as person or for his capabilities but I don’t share or agree with all he does. There were also a bunch of wrong design decisions made by him when it comes for GNOME. Not to speak about Freedesktop that he values higher than official institutions for Standardizing decisions. Well he is a presumptous guy when it comes for argumenting and interviews.
The interview with Maddog was indeed really cool.
Havoc Penington works for Red Hat which is famous for breaking standards and going its own way. He’s quite hypocritical to talk about this.
As good of an idea as desktop standardisation is, we should be careful of putting the control of the standards in the hands of a corporate suits who care more about their profits than usability or consumer wishes.
GNOME2 reflects this corporatised mentality. It used to be the platform for hackers but not any more. I’m staying w/my 1.4.
Some might say, ‘well 2.x has only been out for a short time, that’s why all of the customisations aren’t there yet.’ Why release it as a final version then? Just call it a beta if you’re going to take that approach.
I wish that GNOME were controlled by the developers and users in the open source tradition. It’s not.
I think Havoc and the RedHat guys are doing a GREAT work. Their changes on GNOME and KDE might not please everybody but I’m absolutely certain all those changes are aimed at one objective: making Linux good on the desktop. I really don’t think it’s useful for a desktop to be customizable if it make it harder to use. GNOME is as simple as a normal user needs it. And talking about standards, I think RedHat isn’t breaking standards, they are making better standards, which is something every distribution will benefit from.
IMO, RedHat 8 and GNOME 2.0 are just a first step. That’s why it can look un-finished (maybe even broken). But I’m sure it will pay in the future.
> I think RedHat isn’t breaking standards,
> they are making better standards …
What you ‘think’ and others ‘know’ is a big difference. Let me point you to this place and read this to change your guessing into some more valuable knowledge. Before I write up some crap you’d better go and read it yourself http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html and then after you finished reading continue with this http://www.mosfet.org/rh-rebuttal.html
So what you’d rather have is a loose constellation of individuals publishing standards for “the heck of it” ?
Havoc is taking initiative , it is good and some is bad , that is why there are mailinglists and minor conferences, to adress these opinions.
I fail to see any sense in any of you postings here or your trollings on gnomedesktop.
RedHat is instrumental in helping to get standards that is helping the community as a whole, adress your concerns directly on the mailinglists instead of shying people away from the community with these incoherent ramblings.
and as for mosfet, we all have opinions and we all should remember one thing.
We are a community of Friends!
Mosfet answered your objections.
What I was referring to is the close-minded attitude that the GNOME Foundation has developed toward its existing users. Many times someone says ‘we used to be able to…’ or ‘why can’t we…’ to which the GF person replies, ‘well, we’ve changed that to improve usability for new users.’ However, I have not seen any studies released by the GF or Red Hat which support their UI conclusions. The new file dialog which is still not in 2.1 is crap. It’s very difficult to use and cluttered.
IMNSHO, GF is trying to remake GNOME’s UI into the form of MacOS 9.x. And yet Apple likes KDE better (Safari). I personally will stick w/my GNOME 1.4 until someone releases some things to make GNOME2 as customisable as it should be.
IMNSHO, GF is trying to remake GNOME’s UI into the form of MacOS 9.x. And yet Apple likes KDE better (Safari)
Dude, that made no sense at all. Concluding that Apple likes KDE better just because they use the (KDE-agnostic) KHTML parser is ludicrous. Besides, who cares what Apple likes or not! GNOME 2.2 is very nice. And if it’s easier for new users to adopt/switch to it, more power to them!
-fooks
‘Dude, that made no sense at all. Concluding that Apple likes KDE better just because they use the (KDE-agnostic) KHTML parser is ludicrous’
That was just an aside. But if you can’t see the obvious: Apple doesn’t like the rip that GNOME2 is and so they don’t want to support it in any way such as using (and improving) gecko, which while not a GNOME app, forms the basis of many GNOME apps since it is GTK.
The larger point is that the GF has become overrun with corporate dweebs who care more for profits (or so they think) than community. I don’t like KDE (too slow and bloated) but at least it’s run by the users and programmers. GNOME is too controlled by Red Hat and Sun.
offended everyone in the two camps now. I’m putting on my flamesuit to prepare from attacks by GNOMEs and KDErs(?) 😉
afaik.
khtml is based on gtkhtml.
and provide me with some direct evidence instead of just pointing fingers.
just using an ‘agnostic’ library is in no way an evidence that they like kde better.
They used what was availible to them to get a product out in a minimum of time.
> I fail to see any sense in any of you postings here
> or your trollings on gnomedesktop.
Hey, this is enough!
Could you please (and the others that feel that way) the hell stop that shit ? I seriously can’t understand why people that I don’t know or never heard about take the right out of their ass and call me a troll on all public places. What do you know about me and what did you read about me or from me that gives you or anyone else to say this ?
For the so called unproved Trolls go here:
http://www.gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=860
Do you see me trolling there ? Official GNOME news site and now read the bunch of replies there and get a closer look on the Scores. Those who started the flames and all the bullshit about me are responsible for my bad reputation in the public and they got modded down there while I was modded up. Does this sound like I’m a troll ? I don’t even have an account there. I’m quite tired and sick running behind all the dirt spread about me and clean up there.
I like to appologize my little OT reply here but you may understand that the values of a person and moralic intentions that I follow weights more. Specially for me as person.
He/she has no idea what they are talking about. The Gecko rendering engine os not GTK at all, just like the KHTML is not QT at all.
KDE is definitely easier for the newbie though. Far superior to Gnome at the moment.
> khtml is based on gtkhtml.
It’s exactly the opposite.
i stand corrected.
I was sort of unsure, hence the ‘afaik’ bit.
just read up on it here http://www.oblomovka.com/entries/2003/01/10
No, KHTML and GTKHTML are both independent of each other.
Also, Apple has utilised other portions of KDE code such as KJS (Javascript). KJS is what Apple is moving to now for system scriptability. AppleScript will go the way of the dodo.
Remember, though, my comment’s main point was the closed-minded beast that GF has become.
>No, KHTML and GTKHTML are both independent of each other.
yes they are now. but gtkhtml is still based upon khtml
source: http://developer.ximian.com/articles/whitepapers/gnome-tech/#SECTIO…
Looks like a GNOME/GNOME Foundation/RedHat/hp flamebait party is happening here
but Mike Hearn came to the point: it really doesn’t mind what DE you use, or even if you use any DE, but your desktop apps should play nice to each other, and it’s bad we’re still far from it.
Don’t forget the Owen Taylor interview:
http://www.fosdem.org/index/interviews/interviews_taylor
Of note, mention of the new gtk file selector and combo box widgets:
The follow-on release to that, GTK+-2.4, will concentrate on filling in some of the places where the current GTK+ widgets aren’t as strong as we might like; for example, the file selection widget and the combo box (drop down) widget.