Lindows.com today announced the immediate availability of the Lindows Media Computer. The “Mini-PC,” as Michael Robertson calls it in his announcement, runs LindowsOS 3.0, but can be used as a household media player. It boasts a startup time of 10 seconds for DVD/CD/MP3 CD playback. It is available online now.
Lindows.com Announces Lindows Media Computer
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Here is the company that does this embedded system DVD player, with screenshots: http://www.elegent.com/etDVD/index.htm
I noticed that the description doesn’t state anything about an output to a television. Does anyone know if you can hook this to your home theatre system?
Every now and then, a new little toy comes out that turns in to another fun thing for hackers to tinker with, like those Internet appliances that had harddrive ports, or the X-Box, or… well, I’m not a hardware hacker, but you get the idea
. Maybe Lindows-partnered hardware will some day become the next big toy like that.
Okay now they’ve copied XP Media Center, but didn’t they also say they were going to make cheap tablets? When will we see those?
Does this thing have any DVR capabilities ?
> Okay now they’ve copied XP Media Center, but didn’t they also say they were going to make cheap tablets?
Vaporware. Obviously.
I might as well say it before someone else does:
10 seconds? That’s ridiculous — I could have a shower, mop the floor, and bake a cake in that time. BEOS could boot in 10 nano-seconds. Long live BEOS, etc, etc.
I personally would never use lindows, but if it gets the linux word out to the masses, so be it! Good luck.
>> Long live BEOS, etc, etc.
Long live LinuxBIOS.
If you like looking like a BeOS zealot, sure say it. 10 seconds is a quite possible time. OTOH 10ns? LOL, you are the fool
You need more than 2 memory cycles to initialize a box, no matter what kind of hardware. You could probably hit <1s if you had your entire OS loaded in ROM, but even BeOS is _far_ from achieving that. UUU on the other hand…
I’ll give Robertson some credit for having the guts (and possibly cash as well) for pushing Linux “out-there”, inspite of his shady practices (Tablet LindowsOS anyone?).
If they could get this on display at CompUSA or Best Buy, I could actually see joe six pack buying this thing.(With the help of the pushy sales staff of course).
Tell you what Micheal, I will pay you $200,000.00 if you can come up with an original idea. Im serious, keep on imitating Microsoft all you are doing is giving them the ammunition that they need in court to shut you down. It is almost certain. So keep it up you arent doing a good job and all you will do is drive your company right into the ground. I now agree with Microsofts lawyers all you are doing is try to piggyback MS Windows marketing. Oh when I can plug satellite feed into the ” Lindows Media Center ” let me know then only then will I even consider buying it. Until then I will be keeping my HP Media computer.
I don’t like M Roberts at all. But this is a great move. The test will be how Appliance like this product is to use.
Great… so Lindows rips off XP Media Center and doesn’t even bother to include a DVD burner or video capture card? Figures.
Not only to they lack innovation, but they also lack a good product. Selling a “media pc” with no dvd burner or video capture card is like selling a gaming pc with a voodoo3.
What a joke.
Tell you what Micheal, I will pay you $200,000.00 if you can come up with an original idea.
I’ll give him every penny in my bank account. I’ll even sign a written contract.
LOL
2 seconds tops is what I would consider “instant on”.
My DVD player is ready to go within 2 seconds, my CD player is ready to go in under 1 second, hell, I’ve got a Win98 box that goes from POST to login in ~14 seconds (just timed it for comparison, since it’s my fastest booting full blown computer I have, gotten QNX to boot in less than 3, but that was a total custom job).
Doesn’t look like you can connect this thing to a TV either (or did I miss something).
feh, no thanks.
I think this is a really cool idea. Why is it so hard tog et Mplayer and XIne to play a movie like that?
Just because he uses some of MS’s ideas doesen’t mean these ideas are bad. IMO, if it is a good idea and legal, copy it!
Since when does originality have anything to do with it. Tell me one original thing MS did in the first two years of its existence.
Also please tell me where I can buy an HP Media PC for $329 (okay without monitor) that also has all the personal productivity apps needed by 95% of the population. I am sure a whole lot of people have a need for a satellite feed.
I’d say he is making a good business move.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Piggy backing on others marketing. Its perfectly legal and makes a lot of sense for a small company. You don’t see the MILK people suing everyone who says, “GOT …..”.
The lawsuit has to do with a bogus copyright on the phrase Windows, which was used long before Windows the OS.
If your Trolling, Good Job you got me!
No I am not trolling. What Robertson tried to do with the copyright issue is take the focus off the actual charge. Microsofts lawyers stated in Open Court, I have read the transcripts, that Lindows missappropriated microsofts trademark to essentially piggyback windows marketing strategies and to gain financial reward at their clients expense, which he has done and he is guilty. Robertson and his lawyers tried to take the actual complaint, thwart it and basically get it thrown out because Windows is a generic term, and that it cannot be copyrighted, which is crap, because Apple is a generic word, Apple is a fruit and Apple Computer managed to get it copyrighted and any company that tries to use the word Apple cannot use it. Robertsons claims hold no clout because yes Windows and Windowing is a Generic term but Microsoft uses it and copyrighted it for their Operating System, they do not call it an Operating Environment, if you take Apples state of mind and put it in for microsoft it is the same thing Apple cant sue Apple groves but if I was to start a company, produce a Operating System and call it the Apple OS I would be sued by Apple computer, Microsoft cannot sue a Window maker and claim product infringment because it does not belong in the same class of product, Where as Lindows from day one has used and Abused MS Marketing because of A) Class of product B) made false claims of Lindows capabilities and intersected with Microsofts strategies saying it will run All Windows and Microsft applications, because yes Microsoft has logged calls of Office customers wanting support to get Office to run under Lindows and Wine. They hold microsoft responsible for it when it fails, and now C) tried to mimic the appearance of Windows 98 and Windows XP. The old Lindows Website looked just like the MS Store site. What Lindows should have done is state the products it did support and that Microsoft and the software vendors themselves are not responsible for the performance of their products under wine. No sign of that on their site and the average computer user knows nothing of Wine. If I was on Microsofts legal team I would have got them shut down last year. Not many times do I agree with MS or their strong armed approach on things and yes I know MS doesnt always play fair, but from a business standpoint and a customer service standpoint Microsoft is correct, Lindows did misrepresent itself and misappropriated their trademark. There are many things that Lindows has not released regarding the trial because it knows it will look very badly.
As for your original idea that MS has come up with and has done very well with is Office, Office was a totally original idea and it has done very well in the Market. Another original product is the X-Box.
Bugger BeOS. RiscOS could boot instantly. Until this kit boots instantly, arguing over boot time is like arguing over who has the fastest video card, who has the largest icecube in the Sahara desert, or who came first in an argument on the internet. If Lindows would put its money where its boot is, and come up with an instant on “media centre”, that might get my attention.
“Another original product is the X-Box.”
The Xbox is a gaming console. How is that original?
Okay now they’ve copied XP Media Center…
What’s wrong with that? Doesn’t Microsoft also copy things of smaller companies? I’ve read so much about it, MS copied this, MS copied that, blah blah, blah blah cry cry blah blah lol So what’s wrong about Lindows copying stuff? Bad business practices? *cough MS cough* MS became popular by having easy to use products and good marketing. Lindows is also becoming popular using the same strategies. What’s wrong with all that? Does Lindows hurt you? No! If you want to buy it then buy it, else stop crying! The product is there, it’s been offered. Don’t like it? Don’t buy it.
I have the less powered sibling to the VIA C3. The 533MHz Eden. Uses an external 55W power supply brick. I have put a Seagate IV 40GB hdd in it and it makes less noise than my iBook.
There are *no* fans in this computer; typing on a keyboard is louder.
Granted, I only use it for a Linux firewall/mail server/web server. But the board has everything you could need on it. I love it. Dead quiet.
Runs RH 8.0 like a charm if a bit slowly.
Its the Mini-ITX form factor. http://www.mini-itx.com has more info.
E/.
Just because he uses some of MS’s ideas doesen’t mean these ideas are bad. IMO, if it is a good idea and legal, copy it!
That’s it! Just like you copied my nick so I had to start using (The Original). Hehe off topic…
I don’t really agree with that however when it comes to Lindows vs Microsoft I would agree because MS also copies stuff. It is time to taste their own medicine. No I don’t hate Microsoft in fact I love their products and I wouldn’t replace Windows XP for anything except someone else comes up with something that is as convinient and as easy to use as Windows XP **cough eComStation** but I haven’t tried eCS.
Sounds like someone/something, other than MS and Apple, is alive on the computing Desktop.
What most surprised me, still does, is the etDVD technology. I flashed back to the Linux Bios project, although this is different. ROMs are clearly underused nowadays, a modern desktop OS in a ROM (like RISC OS) would be a total knock out, I think that may be at reach for QNX but they have absolutely no intentions on the Desktop AFAIK.
I guess the booting time only applies to the DVD/CD/VCD player, and NOT to booting Lindows, you may boot into Lindows with a click but that will take much more than 30 seconds for sure.
Thinking it again, what most surprises me is this Pre-emptive multitasking etBIOS operating system ( http://www.elegent.com/products/index.htm ). Sounds wonderful, better than the QNX floppy disk demo?
I think that Lindows is getting a bad wrap by many people in the Linux community, maybe its’ because they are trying to make some real money with the OS. At least they are using Linux in ways that are more appealing to the average Joe than any other distribution. Is a good thing that Lindows is thinking in this mode, because we damn well know that the rest of the community does not really give a damn about a good user experience. Linux still has a long way to go for the desktop, but designing software and systems for the average user will be the only way to get there…and get Linux accepted more to the mainstream.
Dano.
Ok I don’t care about the Lindow/Windows controversy.
What I want to know is:
Does it have a Video Out? If it does does it support NTSC/PAL, composit and S-Video?
Can I also use it to play CD’s full on MP3’s?
Can I use it for DivX’s and Other movie formats?
If the answer is yes to all of the above, I would want one of these!
As to the 10 seconds, that is only twice the “startup” (warmup) time for my amplifier.
So it must be running BeOS… :-p
As I said I love the idea, however I’d like to point out something that strikes me odd: that Start-up Screen.
( http://info.lindows.com/lmc/ )
There is a rectangle on the left corner where it says:
Start Computer
esc (inside a button) LindowsOS
“Just what the heck does that menu mean?” the novice user would surely think. “When I click on -esc- it escapes to where?”, “Huh, isn’t the computer already started?”, “Yes this is Lindows but how do I boot into the Linux thing?”, “I want to turn off this machine, there it says Off quite big, but what is that brk (break I suppose) mysterious button?”,…
All in all, just from what I see the start up screen is not exactly an intituiveness masterwork.
Why are all those stupid buttons there?, all of them, specially the -brk- one, hell “brk”???
Is this a mnemotechnical idea? 1 for MP3, 2 for … Bullshit.
MP3, VDC, DVD, OFF, and LindowsOS should be THE buttons, and not indications to buttons that have printed inside something else. In case we are to have small buttons, have them illuminated when pressed, but no more info inside them please. The Start Computer/LindowsOS/esc rectangle is annoying, such a simple function so obscurely indicated.
I know all of these UI rants won’t stop a novice that has played with it a couple of times, but 1) why not make such a simple interface simple from the beggining? and 2) the unexperienced relatives and/or friends will be stopped a bit by all that buttoned UI “intricacy”.
1) When would they announce Lindows Pocket PC Edition, and Lindows Server 2003? Not to mention Lindows XP Embedded..
2) Speaking of XP, when would they release Lindows 3.1, Lindows 95, Lindows 98, Lindows 2000 and Lindows XP? As well as Lindows NT 4.0?
MS became popular by having easy to use products and good marketing.
I don’t see how Lindows have either. Well, maybe the first, but for marketing, they wouldn’t need to ride Windows’ fame. But there is no proof that Lindows itself has good marketing, we can only see after they have succeeded or have died off.
Having super cheap products doesn’t mean it is good marketing.
However, there are pointers to show that Lindows.com have bad marketing. For example, Robertson says that Lindows.com targets the corporate market in response on whether DirectX would be included and supported into their WINE support.
Yet their product’s competitive egde seems to be based on things that would appeal to consumers rather corporate. Would the corporate enviroment need LindowsOS’ easy installation? Nope, most of them especially big and medium sized companies, install it on one machine and make a hard disk image of it. This isn’t possible with Lindows.com (or any other distribution I know of).
Then comes Click-n-Run, their main source of revenue. I again don’t see how this would appeal to the corporate market. Currently, before they made the previously mention hard disk image, they install the software they need (like Office, WordPerfect, whatever). So this is pretty much a one-time affair.
I don’t remember reading LindowsOS being able to do the same. Meanwhile even if this was possible, a company would only require one license of Click-n-Run, the rest of the licenses are cheaper getting from the company itself (e.g. StarOffice from Sun).
Besides, I don’t mind Lindows.com copying Microsoft’s product. However, they are portraying a image that they are a cheap version of Microsoft, and this also means bad marketing.
First everyone is bashing about how user unfriendly Gnu/Linux is and more like that. Some even think Windows is a better server envoirment too..!??
Now a Lindows did something that makes
it more user(ready)friendly and again everyone is still bashing…bla..bla..bla..
ps. remember the Linux is not ready for the desktop statement and the difficulties some guy had playing dvd’s.. euh jwz?
Given Lindows somewhat unique brand of marketing, wouldn’t it be fair to call them a corporate troll? Everything they do seems to be aimed at grabbing attention and not simply building a good product and letting it speak for itself.
Whether it is called Windows, Lindows, Xandros or Automatron (!!!) you can’t make everyone happy. That is a fact. Lindows.com has made quite an efford to bring Linux to the desktop. True they have shifted focus once with not supporting Windows Binaries, but that support would be problematic at best. True they have made moves into Windows territory… but then again that is their right.
As for copying Windows XP Media Edition… I don’t think so. XP has to be booted completely to play. That will take up to 2 minutes on a not so fast machine. Lindows Media Center just boots a basic Bios with the kernel and the players. If you wish you can boot into Lindows, but that will take an aditional minute.
In any case, it is good that there are competing systems out there. That way noone can keep the price too high. We as consumers can only gain from this.
AND REMEMBER: It is Patriotic to update your Antivirus. Throw away Windows and install Linux. Linux, The NATURAL Antivirus.
In what way is this a Microsoft idea? I’m sorry, but I can’t really see the connection. I think thousands of people has had this idea (including me) long before MS implemented it. And it has even been implemented by others long before MS did it. So please explain what you are arguing about.
As for Office being an original idea. Well, bundling software together isn’t that new and original is it? I’m pretty sure MS didn’t invent the word processor.
There is nothing competitive about Lindows and their marketing. Their strategy is simple ” Make as much as we can, when we can before the judge shuts us down in April.”
No they didnt invent the word processor, what they did was that they made it easier to use and they made it cheaper than anything else out there. Before Gates the word processors and spreadsheet apps were expensive and very hard to use. As for Lindows, one reader stated its their right to market this way. It is not they arent the ones that spent money thinking of this stuff, it was microsoft, what you call their right, the US justice system calls misappropriation. Lindows will lose and they know this, that is why they are releasing anything they can because in the end it can stall and obertsons pockets will continue to grow fatter. As for the Microsoft bashers I dont know what the problem is, when IBM first built their PC, they went to everyone trying to get them to make their system software and they were met with rejection from everyone including UC Berkeley. The last company to get called was MS, Now that MS is the most dominant playr people are upset. What did you people expect ? Did you expect them to give up on the desktop as other OSes became available ? If you were I would like to know what you are smoking, because I could really use some of it. Apple complains, Sun complains but I have one question. Where are their OS Alternatives for the x86 platform ?
Yes, it is their right to enter Windows’ territory. Xandros does that, do I bash them? Ximian does that, do I bash them?
The reason why I’m so against Lindows.com is in its name. It markets itself to be Windows using Linux. Take a look at the box, the ease of Windows and the power of Linux (IIRC). Even if Windows’ trademark is thrown out, it is difficult to see how Lindows would succeed.
Tell me a company that practically clones after another in their branding that succeeded.
Sun offers Solaris x86, there are rumors (only rumors) of Mac OSX on x86 hardware and apple gave us Darwin x86.
Sun also has a commodity line of workstations based on x86 hardware running linux.
Guess that’s where their OS Alternatives are for x86…
<shrug>
What’s wrong with that? Doesn’t Microsoft also copy things of smaller companies? I’ve read so much about it, MS copied this, MS copied that, blah blah, blah blah cry cry blah blah lol So what’s wrong about Lindows copying stuff?
Lindows copying stuff is just as bad as Micrososft copying stuff. All i’m asking for is a little originality!
You don’t see the MILK people suing everyone who says, “GOT …..”.
The term is copyrighted, and if Pepsi showed a commerical with “Got Pepsi” they probley would be sued.
Also please tell me where I can buy an HP Media PC for $329 (okay without monitor) that also has all the personal productivity apps needed by 95% of the population. I am sure a whole lot of people have a need for a satellite feed.
The Lindows “Media PC” is not at all comapreble to the HP Media PC. The lindows “media pc” is just a cheap computer with a dvd rom drive. The HP has a video capture card and dvd burner so you can actually watch tv and edit video on it.
>>
what they did was that they made it easier to use and they made it cheaper than anything else out there. Before Gates the word processors and spreadsheet apps were expensive and very hard to use.
>>
Wahahahahaha!!! man you got belive what you are saying (;>D)
Microsoft sets prices without regard to competitor’s prices, which is why MS Office is the most expensive office suite. The most expensive and you say it’s cheaper! Hahahaha, hey Balmer are you there? Baaalmer!
“WordPerfect is the clear winner for both overall satisfaction and technical support…”
*Word processors.
PC Magazine: Jul 1993
“A reader survey of user satisfaction with various categories of software packages finds that Lotus Development Corp’s dominance of the spreadsheet market with 1-2-3 continues to decline as the number of Microsoft Excel for Windows users increases. Borland International Inc’s Quattro Pro had the highest overall satisfaction score in the survey…”
*Spreadsheets.
PC Magazine: Jul 1993
“IBM acquired Lotus Development Corporation, which had the Lotus SmartSuite that competed with Microsoft Office. Joachim Kempin was in charge of Microsoft’s sales to the computer manufacturers. According to Judge Jackson’s findings, Microsoft was going to delay the issuance of the license for Windows 95 to IBM to “resolve an ongoing audit of IBM’s past royalty payments to Microsoft for several different operating systems.” Paragraph 124 of Judge Jackson’s findings of fact are particularly instructive”
(William C. Spaulding)
In 1995, through Microsoft’s “revolutionary tax” on OEMs, you could buy a PC with Microsoft’s office “FREE” (<— tax here), the rest is legal history, today THE UPGRADE, heheheheh, YES the ***UPGRADE*** reatils for $320-$479. HAHAHAHAHA!!!, and you say it’s cheaper???, where did you buy yours? No I’m sorry, not legal, throw it away.
>>
Now that MS is the most dominant playr people are upset. What did you people expect ? Did you expect them to give up on the desktop as other OSes became available ?
>>
And what did you expect, eat shit and give thanks? Aren’t you gonna get into you head that this is a Convicted Predatory Monopolist? I expect a company to play by the rules of Law or get into REAL trouble, something unexpectable in the last 15 years for “the dominant player”. Anyway that thing about Office being the cheapest and easiest really gave me fits, “cheapest”, hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, way to go man!!!
This is a strategy that almost never works. If you think you have an example you are probably wrong. Thomas Edison? Henry Ford? Alexander Graham Bell? Bill Gates? They all had competitors who innovated, built a good product, and let it speak for itself.
HAHAHAHA
That’s pretty good!
Here is good documentation on how they REALLY became “popular”. Hell, they didn’t even invent their first product!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=activ…
(about 22,800 documents)
Aye, the guy was talking about Office’s early competitors, not today’s competitors. Besides, you mention WP Office… amazingly, Corel says it isn’t a direct competitor to Office and markets it that way.
This is a strategy that almost never works. If you think you have an example you are probably wrong. Thomas Edison? Henry Ford? Alexander Graham Bell? Bill Gates? They all had competitors who innovated, built a good product, and let it speak for itself.
At least with Edison, it worked: Tesla promoted the AC solution for electricity distribution, and no matter how much FUD Edison throw at it, we are nowadays using AC for the distribution network. Tesla’s solution won, even though he never made a dime out of it.
Edison was a good businessman, but not even he could destroy a vastly better technology.
>Not only to they lack innovation, but they also lack a good product
Very often, that is the best way to success – it’s not the idea that counts but being able to shift units better than everyone else. Whether or not we like him, Micheal Robertson seems to be trying his best at that.
>Besides, you mention WP Office… amazingly, Corel says it >isn’t a direct competitor to Office and markets it that way.
Have you forgot who funded (i think it was 300 m. $) Corel? Right Microsoft!
Off course Corel Office is a direct competitor of MS Office.
They are just not allowed to say that!
Lucky for me i use OpenOffice and they say they are even better the MS Office, oh the brutality!..
Lindows is just a Linux distribution similar in appearance to Windows, and i dont think Linux is the tipical “media system”. It should be more interesting doing the same but rescueing such as system as BeOS, ’cause thats the real “media system”.
For what it’s worth, an Apex AD-1500 DVD Player can perform all of the media functions of this unit for about $60. It plays DVDs, VCDs, CDs, MP3s, and even can display JPEG photos in a slideshow. I have one and it’s a lot easier for my non-techie wife to operate than a PC with keyboard. Of course, if this unit doesn’t have TV out, it wouldn’t work as well in that capacity anyway.
As a PC with easy media functions for say, a college student, it looks like a cheap and compact solution. It’s definitely an inexpensive alternative to a Microsoft Media Center PC.
<No they didnt invent the word processor, what they did was that they made it easier to use and they made it cheaper than anything else out there. Before Gates the word processors and spreadsheet apps were expensive and very hard to use. >
Well it looks like lindos is making the Linux OS just as “easy” as windows.. Just like MS does with many products
MS copied Xerox, Digital Research(GEM) & Apple in making a Windows based GUI
MS copied wordprocessers, spreadsheets and web browsers
MS copied Nintendo/Sony to make the Xbox
Now it’s Michael’s turn to do the same.
“With a single-click of the mouse button, the DVD goes full-screen”
We all have a mouse in our entertainment systems, correct? This statement negates their whole marketing pitch.
This is a $360 DVD player with a mouse. The target market is DVD/VCD playback. Any store has these for a fraction of the price, and they don’t look like a PC.
I wish most of the people hyping this would look past the ‘cool’ factor and compare the features (usable ones mind you) against existing products in the home theater environment.
And whoever designed the menu system, obviously they have never heard of the fact that there is a danger region for designing ITV applications due to TVs having overscan problems. That DVD playback bar would be truncated on most TV sets. Same goes for the intelligent positioning of the ‘launch lindowsos’ icon. Note the margin on the eBios icons for their tasks, vs the lindowsos icon. Talk about clueless.
Oh, here’s the FIC PC the guys at Lindows used:
http://www.lillicomputers.net/product.asp?pf_id=FALCON%5FCR51&d…
Get your own, make your own media-PC. You’re paying over twice the price of the retail hardware to have their OS and eBios on it.
Compaq did something distantly similar on one of its notebooks long time ago: playing CDs without having to boot, straight? well thought. This media approach it is also a great thing, come on, specially in Linux ground, MP3s giga-galore and video at 10 seconds reach, with an ultra minimum memory footprint. I’m still thinking on those 254KB containing the media center.
Looking at the FIC PC I suddenly thought about how poor quality the components have become. Not meant to “bring back the old days…” but look at the plastic case of that FIC. Remember the well designed, compact and solid plastic case of an Sinclair Spectrum?, of an AtariXL?, of a Texas Instruments 486? beautiful and durable, I guess that detail quality is not possible anymore with so small economic margins, or whatever. The case looks cumbersome, weak and Silverado-hacker ugly (to add crime to it) but if you want something better you’ve got to assemble it yourself nowadays, or spend a lot of money in a Mac-Deluxe, so… fine.
Being standards so hype for everything it wouldn’t make us any bad a hardware platform where components could be integrated and interchanged on demmand, in a smarter and modular way, more space savy. If you think about it PC cases haven’t almost changed in 25 years (please don’t thwow me the Mickey Mouse cases as counter example). Screws. The latest tech on cases appears to be foam, which obviously isn’t new at all and that “nobody” uses.
Kevin: The term is copyrighted, and if Pepsi showed a commerical with “Got Pepsi” they probley would be sued.
Actually, trademark is the word, not copyright. You can’t copyright a word, you can however trademark it. However if Pepsi starts using the phrase “Got Milk” or soybean producers starts using “Got Milk?”, hello courtrooms.
Aitvo: Here is good documentation on how they REALLY became “popular”. Hell, they didn’t even invent their first product!
They bought it from Seatle-something.. and then hire its engineers and the previous owner. Besides, as for usability, every pragmatic guy would know Microsoft until recently (Windows 95 onwards), Microsoft never seems to care much about that. They picking “” over “/” in DOS speaks volume of that.
Bas: Have you forgot who funded (i think it was 300 m. $) Corel? Right Microsoft! Off course Corel Office is a direct competitor of MS Office. They are just not allowed to say that!
They were marketing WP Office like that even before their horrible Linux experiment. Why? If WP Office were to target directly and squarely for Microsoft’s market share, they would loose most of their current customers. WP Office is in its niche of its own.
Lucky for me i use OpenOffice and they say they are even better the MS Office, oh the brutality!..
I once used OpenOffice.org exclusively, and now on Office, I do my work faster than on OOo. Better? In lying maybe.
Al Pettit: MS copied wordprocessers, spreadsheets and web browsers
Actually, for web browsers, they licensed the first ever graphical browser ever, NCSA Mosaic.
Doesn’t goes in my books as “copy”
Al Pettit: MS copied Nintendo/Sony to make the Xbox
Actually, XBOX is more closer to Dreamcast than to a PS/2 or a Nintendo.
Besides, I wonder if anyone notice the name on the Lindows Media Computer. The word used there is Lindows, only one alphanumerical difference with Windows.
Just to stop all the “It has NO TV out!!!!”… yes, yes it does. The VIA M/B this machine uses has an intergrated 2D/3D chipset with a TV out composite and svideo.
Besides, as for usability, every pragmatic guy would know Microsoft until recently (Windows 95 onwards), Microsoft never seems to care much about that. They picking “” over “/” in DOS speaks volume of that.
Exactly what do you mean? Do you mean the UNIX slash? The MS-DOS equivalent is the backslash, “”. I see no harm in that. UNIX isn’t the only OS with a directory structure and delimeters to mark it. And there is no inherent trait about the slash being better than any other delimeter. Besides, the slash in MS-DOS is used for arguments to commands, just as in VMS, and just like the dash in UNIX, so one couldn’t really use the slash as a path specifier as well. And as we all know, MS-DOS didn’t gain directories (and hard drive support) until version 2. VMS uses a dot as a directory delimiter, and the Mac uses a colon. Those work just as well and are no detriment to the usability.
Attention Attention. Michael Robertson is a Charleton! He is a man who knows how to manipulate the system and in the end he will hurt Linux far more than he will ever help it.
He has been quoted as saying he cares nothing about the open source movement or those who puport it. He has lied I repeat LIED in every press release since the beginning. He is a bottomfeeder who would sell you your own mother. He has a fixation on Bill Gates. That comparison in Forbes or Money or whatever it was last week. He put it together comparing him to his MS counterpart. The man is out for number one and when this Lindows debacle fails and I said WHEN…we will be left with all the rhetoric that MS can put out and we will have to pick up the peices and move on. Luckily corporations are not buying into his hype. It seems only the press enjoy the crap he sends out. Actually he pays to have it published. If you don’t believe me ask any of these websites that do articles or press releases how much it would cost. I mean the main sites not OSNEWS and the likes.
Oh you can praise him about sticking it to Gates or how great it is that he is bringing Linux to the foreground but in the end he is the ringmaster and we will end up looking like Clowns. That is after he has taken the last train out of town.
Stay off the drugs dude…. they make you paranoid.
Have all the people who argue against or for Lindows tried it? I am an Insider and I have tried it. Ask me questions about it.
And by the way Lindows isn’t “L” from Linux and “indows” from Windows… It is “Lin” from Linux and “dows” from Windows. Only four letters from Windows are used. And it’s their right. The full Microsoft products are called “Windows 95”, “Windows 98”, “Windows ME”, “Windows 2000”, “Windows XP”. The full Lindows.com product is called “LindowsOS”. Is “dows” your problem? WHO CARES. Grow out of it. And so will Microsoft once the courts rule on it. If you want Microsoft to be the only player in a game that can only hurt you… then you are just plain stupid. Prices go down when there is competition.
As for Lindows hurting Linux… WOW!!!(dum) I thought the Debian distro on which Lindows is based on is getting contributions in code and funds from Lindows.com to keep it up to date. Lindows doesn’t create Linux from scratch you know. And it doesn’t keep it up to date by it’s own.
Sorry if my opinion makes Microsoft advocates mad, or offends them… but that is why Lindows is here :-). Microsoft can have it’s share of the market, but NOT all of the market.
Do the Patriotic thing. Update your Antivirus: Throw away Windows and get Lindows.
Rajan,
>They were marketing WP Office like that even before their >horrible Linux experiment.
I use Wordperfect 2000 for LInux almost everyday and i see no horror in that…it looks like you are just bashing and make it look like your thoughts are truth. You where finding it an horrible experiment, i found it a brave and wise step.
>Why? If WP Office were to target directly and squarely for >Microsoft’s market share, they would loose most of their >current customers.
That is based on nothing, again you just presume….if..or..else…
>I once used OpenOffice.org exclusively, and now on Office, >I do my work faster
Faster?
I have another experience…MS office give me less flexibility i can not open lets say a *.wpd file or *.swx
file, export is real bad, graphics import is poor, PSQL and MySQL connections are not possible, overall speed and stabilty is sad, its not open/free, its expensive.
>Better? In lying maybe.
see above. Who was lying again?
>Actually, for web browsers, they licensed the first ever >graphical browser ever, NCSA Mosaic.
open you IE exloder screen and type: about:mozilla
and there you have it BLUE. the copied CODE is still in.
If you want to know more about MS copy behaveoir then read the book of Mozilla 3:31.
>>
Actually, trademark is the word, not copyright. You can’t copyright a word, you can however trademark it. However if Pepsi starts using the phrase “Got Milk” or soybean producers starts using “Got Milk?”, hello courtroom
>>
rajan, you obviously don’t know much about trademarks, ’cause Pepsi cannot register the word alone “cola” for a cola ______ (something), and neither “bottle” (descriptive) for a bottle of cola. Just forget it. Or please read on, take a look at all the legal papers of the case (and the applicable Law) before talking such nonsense.
Quote from about.com
The “Microsoft Disk Operating System” or MS-DOS was based on QDOS, the “Quick and Dirty Operating System” written by Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products, for their prototype Intel 8086 based computer.
QDOS was based on Gary Kildall’s CP/M, Paterson had bought a CP/M manual and used it as the basis to write his operating system in six weeks, QDOS was different enough from CP/M to be considered legal.
Microsoft bought the rights to QDOS for $50,000, keeping the IBM deal a secret from Seattle Computer Products.
Gates then talked IBM into letting Microsoft retain the rights, to market MS DOS separate from the IBM PC project, Gates proceeded to make a fortune from the licensing of MS-DOS.
In 1981, Tim Paterson quit Seattle Computer Products and found employment at Microsoft.
End Quote
( http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa033099.htm )
Gary Kiddall didn’t agree on QDOS being different “enough” from Q-DOS, it was plain highway robbery, but this is the way MS works, sue them.
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Actually, for web browsers, they licensed the first ever graphical browser ever, NCSA Mosaic.
Doesn’t goes in my books as “copy”
>>
Rubbish, the first graphical browsers were ViolaWWW (from Pei Y. Wei) and Erwise (students from the Helsinki University of Technology) on X-Windows (shit! they are also using the forbidden word, NOOOO!!!, gee with only one “alphanumeric” crap difference, Good Heavens have you noticed that rajan? HAVE YOU NOTICED???!!!),
and the Samba browser (from Robert Cailliau) on the Mac.
Your book is a pretty lousy one, ’cause you can license something and legally copy it, that is what the unoriginal MS gang did, hey they do legal stuff too.
>>
Al Pettit: MS copied Nintendo/Sony to make the Xbox
Actually, XBOX is more closer to Dreamcast than to a PS/2 or a Nintendo.
>>
So they copied Nintendo instead? Actually great.
QDOS being different … from CP/M. Now.
that I just found, the Midas browser. Summer of 1992 (released one year before Mosaic), developed by Tony Johnson at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC), for Unix systems (that is, on our beloved X).
Bas: I use Wordperfect 2000 for LInux almost everyday and i see no horror in that…
When I talk business, I keep talking business. WP Office is a failure, commercially, on Linux, like it or not. It’s demand is so poor that you can still find old dusty boxes where they sold WP Office for Linux just after Corel discontinued it. And if they didn’t threw it away, you can still find it.
No one on Linux was willing to pay for software. Especially software most of its users don’t need in the first place.
Bas: That is based on nothing, again you just presume….if..or..else…
If you use WordPerfect and compare it with Office, you would notice the huge differences, particulary with its formating features.
Bas: I have another experience…
Not everyone (heck, you are a in a small tiny weeny minority) even knows what’s a *.swx file nor even know how to install Postgre or MySQL. Besides, you can open WordPerfect 5.0 documents in Office.
Bas: see above. Who was lying again?
I did not lie. You have much much different needs that majority, if not all, of Office users. Plus, you misinterpretated some of my quotes.
bas: open you IE exloder screen and type: about:mozilla
and there you have it BLUE. the copied CODE is still in.
If they really copied Mozilla’s code, why is nobody suing them? Not even AOL, Microsoft’s chief rival? Perhaps because one of the three licenses allow Microsoft to include Mozilla code without giving out the source if they don’t edit it.
m: ’cause Pepsi cannot register the word alone “cola” for a cola ______ (something), and neither “bottle” (descriptive) for a bottle of cola.
Reason being that rivals wouldn’t allow Pepsi to trademark it, especially since it is generic and used even by Coco-cola. Now, the “Got Milk” phrase is not generic.
m: Gary Kiddall didn’t agree on QDOS being different “enough” from Q-DOS, it was plain highway robbery, but this is the way MS works, sue them. [/]
No, highway robbery is where you take out a gun, go to Gary, and threathen to shoot him. And in the end of things, don’t give him a job at Microsoft. If Microsoft would have told him about the IBM deal, the price would be severely inflated that Microsoft can’t afford it.
m: [i]NOOOO!!!, gee with only one “alphanumeric” crap difference, Good Heavens have you noticed that rajan? HAVE YOU NOTICED???!!!
X Window System? Is it a operating system? NOPE. Does it claim in any time of its existance to be compatible with Windows? NOPE. Does it have “The ease of use of Windows and the power of Linux” on its box? NOPE. Does it copy every move Microsoft made with Windows XP (tabblet PCs, media computers)? NOPE! Does X Window System strive to confuse consumers on the difference between X Window System and Windows? NOPE!
And besides, it is a fucking 8 alphanumerical difference, compared to four in Lindows.com and three in LindowsOS, besides being called Lindows so fucking often even they call it Lindows for time to time, which have ONE alphanumerical difference.
So under your defination, can I name my product Soso-Sola (since coco and cola are pretty much generic)?
m: So they copied Nintendo instead? Actually great.
Proved, you can’t read. To requote “Actually, XBOX is more closer to Dreamcast than to a PS/2 or a Nintendo.”. But technically, it is extremely different from any of its competitors. The idea may be the same, but then again, that would make everyone on the industry now copycats.
Besides, I may be wrong with Mosaic being the first, but does any of the browsers you mention have a release *older* than 1992, much less being commercial? Besides, you are making it sound that copying ideas from your competitors is a bad and disgusting thing… so I guess just about every software on the face of the earth is bad and disgusting.
I already did, and specialized in Intellectual Property.
>>
Reason being that rivals wouldn’t allow Pepsi to trademark it, especially since it is generic and used even by Coco-cola. Now, the “Got Milk” phrase is not generic.
>>
The USPTO wouldn’t allow it, and only then rivals if the USPTO failed to. “Coca” is not a generic for cola beverages, that is the brand, “Coca”, not “Cola”. There is no problem in using generic name in a trademark, but those generic parts ARE NOT TRADEMARKED, they are not covered, the rest distintive part is: “COCA”.
You’ve got a serious wiseass problem man, you don’t know a shit of what you are talking about. Where can I start from, lets see, there ARE NOT generic phrases, ***NONE***, nonexistent. There are generic NAMES, the phrase “Got Milk” has a verb and a name, the name is a generic for dairy products and it is not a generic for wheels. The phrase “Got Milk” CANNOT be registered alone as a trademark for dairy products, it can be however be used in publicity and protected by Unfair Competition law within that advertisement ground, NOT by trademarks, if a competitor choosed to advertise or print on its products “We’ve got plenty of Milk for everyone”, that would be perfectly ok. I could go on but this is enough for today.
The quality of a program has nothing to do with how many users its got or how succesfull it is/becomes. Like i said MS office does not offer me anything. OpenOffice is the one i use most often (on Linux) and it is the most perfect office tool i ever used.
Mozilla code?, are you sure you actually read/red the book of Mozilla? Please do before making such a statement
From the USTPO themselves.
Word Mark COCA-COLA
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Neon Sign, Mouse Pad. FIRST USE: 19950801. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950801
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 76088802
Filing Date July 13, 2000
Published for Opposition May 15, 2001
Registration Number 2475705
Registration Date August 7, 2001
Owner (REGISTRANT) Coca-Cola Company, The CORPORATION DELAWARE One Coca-Cola Plaza, N.W. Atlanta GEORGIA 30313
Attorney of Record JAMES K BOUDREAU
Prior Registrations 0238146;1338789;1342741;AND OTHERS
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
The only trademark I found on “coca” is dead:
Word Mark COCA
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothes, footwear, headgear. FIRST USE: 19981200. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990501
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75713562
Filing Date May 25, 1999
Owner (APPLICANT) Moore, Raschad Cavaseia INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 2704 Archangel Court Bowie MARYLAND 20716
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date April 25, 2000
Why, I thought you were specialized in this field?
My point on the so-call Mozilla code theft is that there is proof that Microsoft indeed broke the license (any of the license) of Mozilla, trust me, AOL would be all over it. Which they aren’t. Which either shows that Microsoft used the code legally or there is a coincidence that the about:mozilla thing came out.
On Mozilla, it says;
“And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
from The Book of Mozilla, 3:31
(Red Letter Edition) [/i]
in italic, serif and with a white foreground and red background.
In other words, the difference between this and Mozilla’s message may prove that such a theft actually happen. But like I said, if there was even a iota of proof, AOL would be all over this in the courts. Trust me on this one.
Have you actually read the book of Mozilla part 3:31?
Please do before making any more assumptions..
The book can be found with a simple google query
ps. there is no need to reply, you will get it after you read it