“Terry Hatfield introduced Linux to a Senior Citizen in response to her ongoing Windows system woes. Hatfield proves that Linux can be used successfully by anyone wanting to perform simple tasks — in this case browsing the Internet, using email, and playing solitaire. After a one month trial, Hatfield asked the elderly woman if she wanted Linux removed from her system, and she affirmed that her new OS of choice was Linux” Read more at DesktopLinux.com
A Senior Citizen’s Introduction To Linux
About The Author
Adam Scheinberg
Technology Executive • Web Developer • Father • Foodie • Music Snob • OS enthusiast
Follow me on Mastodon @[email protected]
have some respect you aussie bastard… you’ll be an old bag too some day, mate.
i agree that linux can be successfully used by almost anyone, even senior cititzens. i think the most obvious problem is that people who are not computer savvy, like the elderly, can be easily confused by simplest things, such as promt box, etc.
but the reality is that they don’t care. they don’t even know what’s going on with their machine. so ultimately the OS doesn’t matter just as long as it does the job they want. their goal is to get something that works, and is easy to understand. i think that linux could be their answer, when it works. however they will definetly need a guru to help them when thigns don’t work.
-j
The vast majority of home users out there can be perfectly happy with linux. As long as they can surf the net, get email , play a couple of desktop games like solitaire and open the MS Office docs their friends send them they will be fine.
Yes, there will be the person that complains of no browser support for QT, or some Windows extension. Yes, Cross Over plugin help and mplayer is looking to support Sorrenson.
Still, it does not touch on the real issue. I love linux. I do my work on a linux workstation in a Unix-focused workplace every single day. Still, I see no overwhelming reason for the average person to trash their Windows XP and install Linux over it.
There is no killer app or OS feature that would propel the average home user to go through the pains to install and setup a system with linux.
Unless MS really ticks off the manufacturer market and a singnificant percentage of machines come with linux by default I do not see the number of average home users with linux expanding. Maybe the OSS/FSF folks should get together with the major companies (RH, SuSE, IBM etc..etc..etc) and spend some real time and money on figuring out a new technology or idea that can capture the imagination of the computer using public to move from an OS that comes installed by default on their machine. Until then …
So this grammatically challenged person set up Linux. He then hid major portions of it’s functionality so that it wouldn’t be overwhelming. Then he spent a month working with a person to clear up user issues with four simple tasks; navigating the desktop, connecting to internet, checking email, and playing a game.
That the dialogs were confusing to the lady, the log window was coming up for KPP, and Mozilla was too easily letting her create new profiles are pretty big issues. The system was not intuitive. This is evident by the fact that he had to write down instructions on what buttons to ignore and which ones to push—to just log off of the internet.
Linux still has a long way to go to be as useable, on an unmodified install, as either Windows or MacOS.
This story shouldn’t be used as a success story for Linux. At best it’s a success story for this guy’s perserverence.
From time to time, I’ve had opportunity to teach senior citizens to use computers for the basic tasks of emailing, web browsing, games, etc. Being a senior myself and interested in offering choices, I have tried similar tests. I’ve provided Windows 2K, Libranet Linux, and BeOS platforms for choices.
If Windows was initially introduced and time was spent using it and then the other systems introduced, there was some resistance, but the students were able to transfer learning after “seeing” the similarities.
The ultimate system of choice, however was not Windows or linux but BeOS.
Just like any learning activity, some people will learn faster and more thoroughly than others, but learning computer skills can be achieved by anyone with sequential teaching.
As if the ongoing battle between Microsoft serfs versus Linux zealots were not enough, people invite a Hatfield to use Linux!
Now McCoys are gonna turn to Windows “en masse”…
I was going to let your pathetic and junvinile comments rest, however, I can’t let this lie rest and some how manifest into a wives tale or worse, a half truth.
COmments regarding usability, complete and utter bullshit. All the issues are related to different ways of doing things, specifically the fact that software is execvuted through single click, NOT double click. Personally, the person who set itup should have set KDE to use double click.
As for profile, that stems from the constant clicking on the Mozilla/Netscape icons which brings its up. Again, this can be solved by setting the KDE preferences to double click.
The Log window in KPPP only appears when it has been setup to do that. By default, the log window NEVER shows.
As for this bullshit use of “intuitive”, don’t get me started on the millions of dollars wasted each year listening to these idiots who think they know what the customer wants. The customer wants somethint done the easiest possible way. They want to learn it once and repeat it again and again without any problems occuring.
No, Windows XP or what every DOES NOT do that. From Modems that don’t properly initialise after a spotanious disconnection, to the GUI no loading after updating the video drivers. This is what happens in REAL life, not this “magical world” that you live in with lollie pop’s, rainbows and Windows XP desktops working perfectly 100% of the time.
Heck, and don’t get me started about updates on Windows. Go into any home, and I’ll promise you not one of them have run Windowsupdate. Most see the link, but don’t touch.
So, don’t give me the crap that Windows is some how “perfect” and that Linux or what ever should learn everything from it.
Linux will work if all you want to do is browse the web, send/receive email, write letters, burn CDs.
However, if you stray too far from the ‘bread and butter’ apps and tasks, you’re probably going to run into trouble.
I have set my parents (in their 70’s) with a dualboot Linux and Win98 system. They use a couple of programs, Hoyle Casino and a scanner app, in Windows but everything else is done in Windows. There have been a few bumps along the way, nothing too serious. From past problems, trashed Windows etc, I opted to set all their internet access in Linux and none in Windows. My “support” phone calls have dropped WAY off. I no longer get the “it says I performed an illegal function, what did I do?” calls. The posters blathering on about “Linux has a long way to go” and “No overwhelming reason” etc are full of it. So far i’m experiencing less “Guru” calls with Linux than I did with Windows on their system. They’re happy and my from calls from them are more often about other subjects than the computer.
Proofreading, its a wonderful thing if you do it before you post. I must learn that someday.
I have set my parents (in their 70’s) with a dualboot Linux and Win98 system. They use a couple of programs, Hoyle Casino and a scanner app, in Windows but everything else is done in Linux. There have been a few bumps along the way, nothing too serious. From past problems, trashed Windows etc, I opted to set all their internet access in Linux and none in Windows. My “support” phone calls have dropped WAY off. I no longer get the “it says I performed an illegal function, what did I do?” calls. The posters blathering on about “Linux has a long way to go” and “No overwhelming reason” etc are full of it. So far i’m experiencing less “Guru” calls with Linux than I did with Windows on their system. They’re happy and my from calls from them are more often about other subjects than the computer.
Billy the Mc Carty can even open up his ass for public! I am noot interested!!!!
This is great news for Linux community, showing that MS is feeling the pressure of Linux’s acceptance among the governments!
Congrats!
It was not intentional, sorry again.
Wouldn’t this be the ideal place to install a Homebase desktop (eone) ? It seems to me it was made for this kind of job, although the winmodem thing would still be an issue, and probably even harder to fix than in a regular linux distro.
Funny, if someone is having amnesia problems with changing settings in Windows, Linux is the last OS I would recommend. Click a couple of wrong Mandrake configuration buttons and the whole thing is hosed up, and much harder to fix than an OE setting.
Aside from the one guy who set it up for her, how many other people will be able to assist her now that she’s on Linux instead of Windows? Nearly everyone I know has a home computer, but I don’t know anyone else who has even tried Linux.
My preference would have been BeOS, or even Lycoris as was the author’s first choice. But getting a WinModem online is a pain in the ass with any OS other than Windows.
One thing’s for sure, that guy’s going to heaven for paying so much attention to an elderly lady! She probably changed the OE settings on purpose so he’d come to visit.
-Bob
I like this article.
The mistake most people make when comparing the userfriendlyness of different operating systems is that they expect to be able to immediately do everything they could on OS A (mostly windows) on OS B (linux/…).
Hereby they forget how long it took them to acquire those skills on OS A (windows).
So for me, the only valid comparison in userfriendlyness would be to let someone who is completely new to computers do the test.
I doubt anyone of those will find KDE less userfriendly than win xp. I don’t particularily like KDE, I find it too bloated for my needs, but I understand a lot of people like it. The main advantage of using KDE/Linux is that you, as you become a more ‘advanced’ user, easily move over to a different windowmanager, and start administering your box in the good old unix way
There’s no way you can make such a move with windows; you can’t ever get total control over your computer with windows. With Linux you can, if you want too of course 
If you were to set up a 486 with only 16MB of RAM and a 700 MB harddrive with MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1x for a person who never used a computer before, and configured Windows so it would only show 3 groups in program manager, and referencing WIN in the autoexec.bat file. These three groups would be labled “Internet”, “Office”, and games. Then you were to install IE 5.0, MS Office 4.3, Win32s, and a few games, they would just as easily be able to use it as anything else.
Granted compatibility with modern applications would be almost none whatsoever, but that is not the point here. The point is that it would be very simple to use. Almost every consumer OS has been at this point for some time now.
Whether you give them Mac, Windows, Linux, or BeOS really does not matter to the person who has no, (or very limited), knowladge of computers it does not matter which OS you install and configuyre for them. All they really want to do is what thier friends do. This might include, Email, surfing the internet, listening to MP3’s, playing basic games, office work. And yes, even though windows 3.1 is very old, software is still made for it (albeit freeware and shareware applications).
I set-up my mom on a libranet 2.0 system and she loved it. She liked the solitare and the simple desktop (icewm). I had trouble getting it to conect to the internet so I had to change her back to win98 but her biggest problem was what all the menu items were. After I showed her the office apps and game apps, she was pleased. If she ever goes dsl, its linux all the way for her or unless one of the distros partners up with an isp. Speaking of which…why don’t one of the distros partner up with earthlink or some other large isp? I can’t believe the tech support calls would be that much of a problem.
apple just pays the most attention to these things. Still, there will be problems. That’s why you need the easiest to use – to reduce the number of problems. Also, apple phone support is extremely good and you get three years of free calls with Applecare.
interesting article though. too bad on the winmodem. would have been better to install Lycoris or lindows and buy a new modem.
[Unless MS really ticks off the manufacturer market and a singnificant percentage of machines come with linux by default I do not see the number of average home users with linux expanding]
This is not enough. The real cost will be tech support and you can’t expect a computer shop on razor thin profit tells its linux user to “Read The Fine Manual”.
Ok, appleforever I have to give it to you on this point. I have no data set up or survey information but here is my opinion from my experience over the years.
I have heard and experienced so many times in my IT career where two people buy a computer for basically the first time at roughly the same time for home use. One picks a mac and they just rave about it and how easy it is to use. The other person picks a pc and has a dozen or so questions about how to do things and such or they have this one big issue with one piece of hardware where it does work or does not work right for them in windows even with the manufacturer’s drivers.
This is just my opinion from the non-computer types I have met over the years getting used to their home pcs. It seems almost always (notice I said almost folks) that the mac users seem to be having an easier time getting used to their machine. This even happens a few times for people that use pcs at work. I have never lived with a Mac for a long period of time so it is hard for me to quantify or explain. It just appears that for beginners macs are easier.
The linmodem thing is usually resolved with a ltmodem driver download (there are other winmodems and other linux drivers available for most of them). In RH you simply doubleclick the rpm and give root password and it installs it for you. That worked for me anyway.
No flames needed on this one. No there is no driver CD that comes with your modem with linux drivers but downloading a driver and installing is not uncommon for the pc world even with Windows. I know I have seen issues with drivers off the drivers CDs and had to download a driver off the web to get a piece of hardware to work with Windows and you have to do this with linux too. No big deal.
Stripping down windows and cleaning up the Win instllation might just as easily have elminated the problems described with the original install. Also, adding the 64 MB chip for Linux would have helped Windows 98 as well. Also, why change your whole OS just so you don’t have to use Outlook Express? There must be a hundred SMTP mail programs for Windows that don’t have virus vulnerabilities. And the last time I checked, Norton Anti-Virus or Macafee can be had for $30 or less. No recompiling required.
I don’t understand why some people will spend hours and hours getting Linux to work but when Windows misbehaves they just throw up their hands and say “M$ suckz!”
That is why distro companies have technical support. Would they have to get better? Yes. Do you expect to support large number of new users through the community where RTFM is a mantra? No. Would the hardware folks have to give basic tech support related to linux the way Dell has to for some basic windows functioning related to their hardware? Yes.
Also, I said the linux share would only expand (this might only be a few percentage points here and there) only when linux is bundled with the hardware and the day that there was an overwhelming reason to use linux over the Windows standard. What might this be? I am not sure. It might be a killer app or OS use but I can tell you it is not there today.
There is no single overwhelming reason for a home user to switch to linux. Period. This is coming from a linux user. I want a Unix-like environment on cheap x86 hardware. I have a reason. Most do not.
In many ways Macs are nice for newbies but I can’t tell you how many people I’ve encountered who have never figured out that just because they close all their document windows that the program is exited. Every newbie whom I have set up using a Mac is always confused by this and is always complaining about not enough RAM because they never exit their programs.
IMHO, it is a stupid idea to have a shared menubar. I wish that Apple would’ve ditched it in OS X. I used an early beta of it and the menus were properly in each window. I haven’t decided though if I like the idea of a menu bar in comparison to the RiscOS/Gimp idea of obtaining it by clicking inside the window.
It’s also a pet peeve of mine that we have become stuck in the File Edit View Tools, etc. paradigm. It fits for some applications but makes no sense for others, such as control panels, browsers or games. The concept of an Edit menu makes no sense for file managers either since you are not Editing the file, merely copying or moving it. Exit should not be on any menu, IMHO. Let the window manager take care of that.
I think your comment about the double-click may be on the mark. However, things would also have been solved if the author had the woman use Konqueror and Kmail, none of which have any problem with the user double-clicking on their icons.
If it were my system, I’d have put the icons on her panel. People are more used to the idea of clicking one time on a toolbar so I doubt that she would be doing the double-click thing. But AAR, if you click on Kmail after it’s already been started, it will just switch you back to it. Konqi will just open a new window, no biggie.
It would also be faster for the woman since both of the apps are using the kdelibs which have already been loaded with the system. The upcoming KDE 3.1 release (for those who have not tried it) really obviates the need to use Mozilla in KDE. The new Konqueror is so much faster and chokes on very few pages. Plus it can easily spoof as another browser which Moz cannot. (Yes, you can edit the prefs.js)
I hope the author will upgrade to KDE 3.1 when it comes out. She will like it much better.
“So this grammatically challenged person set up Linux. He then hid major portions of it’s functionality so that it wouldn’t be overwhelming. Then he spent a month working with a person to clear up user issues with four simple tasks; navigating the desktop, connecting to internet, checking email, and playing a game. ”
None of the above has to do with Linux and everything with the skill level of the end user. I recently taught my in-laws (in their 50s) how to finally use their computer, get on the net, get email etc., which runs Windows 98. We went through all the same baby steps and they wrote lots of stuff down. Same deal with my dad and using the iMac. If you’re approaching any computer for the very first time, there will be a learning curve.
have set my parents (in their 70’s) with a dualboot Linux and Win98 system. […] The posters blathering on about “Linux has a long way to go” and “No overwhelming reason” etc are full of it.
Well, of course everything is just dandy as long as you’re there to set it up and ‘idiot-proof’ it for them, but what happens if you fall off a cliff or get hit by a bus .. then what? As another user pointed out ..
Aside from the one guy who set it up for her, how many other people will be able to assist her now that she’s on Linux instead of Windows? Nearly everyone I know has a home computer, but I don’t know anyone else who has even tried Linux.
If something were to happen to you (and let’s hope nothing does), what then becomes of their Linux box when it breaks? How many other Linux gurus can they call for help? Almost anything can be MADE to be user-friendly without enough determination, cussing, and spare time.
That was very kind of him to set up and configure the woman’s computer and make it do what she wanted when she wanted.
‘Cuz no way in hell could she have done all that by herself at all.
I will say, though, that it does make a good point about how flexible Linux is, and that it was relitively easy for an Linux adept to set up and make a system that she can use to get her basic tasks done.
—
How about giving granny two identically configured computers and the requisite CD roms to install the OS and any software and see which one she gets farther with? I doubt very much that she would have the same opinion of Linux.
Why you wouldn’t recommend a Mac to anyone as computer-phobed as an elderly lady is beyond me.
Talk about painless:
1. Unpack box
2. Plug Mac into wall
3. Plug phone line into Mac
4. Turn Mac on
5. Click an icon, fill in some info, setup accounts, surf the net.
(I’m a hardcore Win user, and I’d *NEVER* recommend a Windows or Linux system over a Mac for a beginner. Never. Ever. Ever.)
I would not suggest any regular home user attempt to install either Windows or Linux. That is part of the problem with the whole idea of linux expanding onto home desktops.
No regular user will ever go through the trouble of installing an alternative OS and dealing with all the hassle that entails. I know people that tried on their own to install XP or 2000 on their machines and have found that they experienced lots of trouble. Installing an OS is not a particularily intuitive process, period. Not for a home user.
Dell does not just install XP on their machines and leave it alone. They include things from their own hardware tools, hooks for easy hookup to big name ISPs, and all kinds of other minor things. They try to help “idiot proof” the experience in minor ways.
Most people when they go to upgrade windows (if they ever bother) grab a geek friend and have them install it for them and setup their little shortcuts and stuff like that. I do not understand why it is such a sin for a linux user to do the same favor for a senior citizen.
i do have a conexant modem and no cd-writer.. driver file is bigger to write on a floppy..
Please someone would explain how would i install my HSF conexant modem unless i have win partition or windows as well ? Conexant is maybe one of the few companies that developed drivers for its softmodems(winmodems), RH,MANDRAKE,SUSE almost all distros include 1000s of less used software into their CD’s, why don’t include conexant drivers to their CD by default?
Can’t i just use linux as my one and only OS on my PC???
Have a nice day folks..
http://www.mbsi.ca/cnxtlindrv/
The driver for both the softmodem and the pci driverless modem are included. Neither one of the rpms listed are above the available space on a floppy. The softmodem version is 986k and the PCImodem is 567k.
Good luck.
“If you were to set up a 486 with only 16MB of RAM and a 700 MB harddrive with MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1x …[–]… Then you were to install IE 5.0”
ROTFL!!! You are real magician!
Installing IE 5 even on P100 computer renders it to nearly unusable toy.
I never said it was a sin that he had done such things, in fact, I said it was really nice of him to do it.
I would probably like a nice stable Linux system like that.
But, my point is, the article is limited in scope. What he did for her is not easy, nor intuitive.
It does, however, show the potential that an OS X slick and easy Linux can have.
(And pray to the computer gods for me, Mr. Bailes. I’m actually going to be giving Linux another try.)
Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic, my bad. What distro are you planning on trying?
Might have some hints if it happens to be SuSE or RedHat 8.
I make a postinstall CD of things like MS fonts, flash plugin , ltmodem rpms, apt for rpm, synaptic and all that stuff it makes things much easier.
Just install the rpms off the CD for example and use the kde font installer to install MS fonts. Easy postinstall is nice. Even flash has finally started making proper rpms for their plugins.
Remove the spaces and nospam from my email addr and hit me up if you have trouble.
Good luck.
Not really, I have Windows 2000 SP3 installed on my P1 166Mhz with 256MB SDRAM, 46GB HDD, SB16PCI, S3Trio64v2, el cheapo computer, and it has preformed very well, I have IE 6 SP1 installed with all the latest updates. Son I will be installing Windows 2000 SP4. The machine only takes about 3 miniutes to boot, and I load about 20 programs at startup, and a macintosh emulator. Preformance is not an issue on my machine. Also, I have had WfW 3.11 with DOS 6.22 and IE5 on here also. Speed is actually very good. from POST to Windows it is about 10 seconds.
IE will launch in about 2 secnonds from time of launch. Keep in mind that the 16 bit version does not intigrate into program manager, and does not load at startup like it does in Windows 9x.
Until active, IE is just another (bloated)application.Actually IE in WfW is more stable than it is in 9x. I have only even managed to crash WfW three times in the last ten years, so it is a stable system is you configure it right. Out of the box, it is very unstable though. you have to configure the OS for your computer whatever it may be. Even if it is the OEM disc provided to you by your vendor.
Linux and Windows alike have major problems with intuitiveness. The only difference is in ease of setup, and even then only sometimes. I just went through some rebuild hell on Windows even though I’ve done it a thousand times at my job. On the other hand, I gave up trying to install Linux (seeing as I was already behind and it was only for fun anyway) because it simply would not go into post-install after copying the files. BeOS, however, has never, ever, been less than a pleasure to install. It’s usability is a little better, but the fact is, no matter what OS you’re talking about, the potential for perfect software on today’s hardware is wasted to a disturbingly high degree.
First, some background. The machine I’m on at the moment runs the following:
Win98
WinXP
Red Hat 7.3
BeOS 5.0.3
QNX 6.2
I am not a linux-basher by far. Ideally, I would like to see Microsoft and Mr. Gates fry in the lowest circle of hell. But this article does no one any service. Frankly, I don’t believe the story, period. It’s way too convenient a scenario to prove a point. My observations are:
1. I’ve been using Windows 98 for 4 years-I had no choice, as that’s the platform that runs what I need (pro audio editing software). I’ll be the first one to say, loudly, that Win98 is a major pain in the ass sometimes, but I never once experienced anything like the troubles that Mr. Hatfield describes, nor have any of the 10 or so completely computer-illiterate folks I regularly help, some of whom are so technically incompetent that they can’t work a toaster.
2. The same thing could have just as easily been done to a Win98 system, and for a lot less hassle and time invested on the part of Mr. Hatfield.
3. Even if true, there is no way this person could have set this up for herself, and no support available to her if her buddy goes away. Can you see her asking the slashdot/OsNews crowd for help? I’ve seen what happens with that before. “RTFM” is usually the nicest part of the invective that is sure to ensue when a noob asks for help.
4. My suggestion for the hapless new or incompetent computer would be the Mac, even an older one, no question. Not quite plug and play, but pretty close.
The double click is a bug in Mozilla Phoenix, whereby openning it a second time asks you for a profile. Phoenix nightlies no longer have this bug.
Who the heck are you asking questions of? I keep hearing about the old RTFM response. Sometimes I even play along with this nonsense and talk about vendor and distro customer support.
However, I am getting tired of it. Are you going on IRC for help? One word, Don’t. I subscribe to the redhat and suse-en list and I have yet to see someone respond with RTFM except as a half-hearted joke with smiley attached.
The funny thing is I agree with what you say about the mac. They do make good machines for new users.
However, running 98 or ME would have been more trouble for Hatfield considering the instability of those platforms just using XP on a fairly new machine would be a better example.
What happens to people when their geek buddy goes away, Windows or Macs? They ask other people. They call maker of the OS (the linux distro) and they go to their support page and they start looking stuff up.
The funny thing is many people talk like they are legions of Windows users roaming around neighborhoods at random helping old ladies out. I am in IT. I know a lot of IT people. How many IT folks does the old lady know that will make house calls? One. A horrible evil linux zealot that actually took the time to help her out. The bastard should be stoned.
If the old ladies 98 registry blows up at random and the 98 box will not act correctly, she has a big old computerized doorstop.
If the lady with the linux box gets a lilo hangup and a blinking cursor instead of the kernel loading, she has a giant doorstop.
Also the scenario is too convient so what it must be a load. People who are into computers have the hardest time accepting the fact that the vast majority of home users have very simple computer needs. Browsing, email, Instant Messaging, the ability to open MSOffice docs from friends and couple of desktop games like solitaire and tetris.
My wife does this on my linux setup every single day and she is no unix/sys admin/programmer geek. She is pretty computer savvy but as a office power user (she can make a spreadsheet do backflips and documents that are just incredible looking). If you setup the desktop where things are right there one click away from the user and you show them where things are you should be fine.
>>4. My suggestion for the hapless new or incompetent computer would be the Mac, even an older one, no question. Not quite plug and play, but pretty close.<<
So instead of helping the lady to use her computer with alternate solution, you suggest that she go out and spend, oh say, roughly $1000.00 to get a new computer just so she can:
1. surf the web
2. send email
3. play some game
What a solution! And the lady is sure to be up and running just as soon as she plugs in the new Mac. No training required. Yeah, right!
BTW, the guy did install Windows 98 as a dual boot, in case she wants it back. At least, she gets rid of the problems commonly associated with Windows: frequent crashes, locked up, reboot, and of course virus.
IRC, guilty. It’s like asking for help with your wallet in Compton. I’ll try the Red Hat lists, perhaps they’ll be more civilized.
Why would running 98 or ME be more trouble? I’ve not had experience with ME, but I’ll say this again: In my experience with Windows 98, I have not yet run into a problem that could be fixed within an hour or so, tops. I have heard horror stories of people having to reformat the drive, etc. It hasn’t happened to me. Or anyone I know. Ever. I rarely (2 per year) get BSOD’s, I don’t get system lockups, even when processing 100MB+ sound files or recording 16 tracks at a time.
I think that the difficulties with MS products, are, shall we say, exaggerated. They happen. They don’t happen ALL THE TIME.
Guys, listen. I use Red Hat and BeOS because I am unhappy enough with the MS business practices that I wish nothing more to do with them, if possible. If either one had a working MIDI/audio sequencer I would drop 98 AND XP in a heartbeat.
But, they don’t. And without that killer app they are just toys, albeit fun ones.
If I were running a server farm, well, no question what I’d be using. But, I’m not.
-The Arbiter
>have set my parents (in their 70’s) with a dualboot Linux and Win98 system. […] The posters blathering on >about “Linux has a long way to go” and “No overwhelming reason” etc are full of it.
“Well, of course everything is just dandy as long as you’re there to set it up and ‘idiot-proof’ it for them, but what happens if you fall off a cliff or get hit by a bus .. then what? As another user pointed out ..
Aside from the one guy who set it up for her, how many other people will be able to assist her now that she’s on Linux instead of Windows? Nearly everyone I know has a home computer, but I don’t know anyone else who has even tried Linux.
If something were to happen to you (and let’s hope nothing does), what then becomes of their Linux box when it breaks? How many other Linux gurus can they call for help? Almost anything can be MADE to be user-friendly without enough determination, cussing, and spare time.”
So how would my getting “hit by a bus etc” be ANY different were they running Windows? My calls for support have gone down with Linux. With Windows it was a constant phone call a day kind of thing. What part of that don’t you understand? Were I to “fall off a cliff” and they were running Windows, i’m sure they would still need help. Your argument is pointless as a defence of Windows.
http://www.midimountain.com/
http://beast.gtk.org/
There are others too but I am not saying that any will completely fill your current needs. Having an app for a purpose is one thing. Having an app for a purpose that does exactly what you need is another.
BTW, I have said this before and I will say it again. Disliking the business pratices of a company is not the best reason in my opinion to use an alternative OS like Linux or BeOS. If the alternatives do not work for you or do not fill a need that justifies the installation, and positinstallation steps needed to get an alternative OS up and going then it is not worth it. You will realize that you are spending all this time to make the alternative like the OS you left.
If you wake up one day and realize that you rarely if ever use Windows then the alternative works. If you find that you play occasionally with the alternative but have to constantly go back to Windows to do work then it is not worth it to you.
Whether or not an alternative OS works for you and whether or not you really like it better are the only decent reasons IMHO for switching from the Windows standard.
“Can you see her asking the slashdot/OsNews crowd for help? I’ve seen what happens with that before. “RTFM” is usually the nicest part of the invective that is sure to ensue when a noob asks for help.”
You’ve got to be kidding, right?
1. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE ASK SLASHDOT OR OSNEWS FOR HELP?? That’s insane. Slashdot/OSNews are the worst places to ask *anything*. It only proofs that the Slashdot/OSNews communities are fsck’ed up.
2. Purchase the official distribution CD and get phone or email support. No RTFM, just plain professional support from the vendor. Hasn’t *anyone* ever thought of that?
Yes I realize you have to pay money, but really, to get support from Microsoft on Windows, you have to purchase the official Windows box. Does any closed source company, that sells a product, provide support for free? I don’t think so.
3. How about asking help at a place *other* than Slashdot/OSNews?
– For questions about GNOME, the GnomeDesktop.org forums are *very* helpful. I’ve never seen anyone saying “RTFM”. Don’t believe me? Use the Search function to search for “RTFM”. You’ll get 5 results, but in *ALL* of those posts, it’s the user who said that he will rtfm or that he did rtfm. Nobody tells him to rtfm.
– Ever tried a public Linux forum? I regularly visit 2 Dutch Linux forums: the ComputerTotaal Linux forum and the NedLinux forum. The people there are always very friendly and helpful, no “RTFM”.
This “Linux people will always tell you to RTFM”-stuff is overrated. This myth must die, now.
If your really good, you can show these people how to download and install the JAVA plugin, that will let them play pool on YAHOO. IE does this flawlessly,to perfection. Linux can’t do it at all!!!!!!!!!!!