“Among the treasure troves of recently released WikiLeaks cables, we find one whose significance has bypassed Swedish media. In short: every law proposal, every ordinance, and every governmental report hostile to the net, youth, and civil liberties here in Sweden in recent years have been commissioned by the US government and industry interests.” How such prestigious nations with such long and proud histories, like Sweden, The Netherlands, and so on, can succumb to pressure from a former colony is beyond me. We should know better.
What that “from a former colony” stuff was about?
I and a lot of OSnews readers were born and live in countries that
were someone’s colonies; so, your “from a former colony” text
sounds to me full of arrogance, superiority feelings and is not
needed at all in the text above…
An yet it’s more of a slant against Sweden and The Netherlands than anything else.
Oh…. And The Netherlands were a “colony” of Spain.
and both became colonies of nazi germany until the other colony got in the war.
COLONYCEPTION!
No, The Netherlands never were a colony of Spain. Both countries were part of the Holy Roman Empire, in fact a Germanic empire that took some symbols from the old Roman Empire and where the Roman church had much influence. The first Emperor was Frankish (a Germanic tribe). The Emperor of the time of the civil war moved to Spain and ruled from there. The Netherlands didn’t want to pay taxes any more, and also the Reformation played its part.
Your historic knowledge of Europe is faulty, which is not surprising giving the fact that you are living in a former colony 😉 Although I have to admit that the former colony has done a great job. But remember that most of your culture originates elsewhere.
Lithuania? A former colony? Of what?
My knowledge of European history may have some holes in it, but I definitely know where Holland is and what country the French refer to as Pays-Bas and why.
PS: Note that I put quotes around the word colony. That is for a reason…
Edited 2012-02-06 23:56 UTC
Hm, so you already forgot Lithuanian ССР…
Or: a “colony” of pre-Soviet Russia, in XIX century …really, also in XVIII, already under strong Russian influence, just like Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in general (well, the more eastern parts at least). Oh yeah, and particularly in later (but before terminal) times of that Commonwealth also of ~Poland, sort of. And one might debate even much earlier periods vis-a-vis Teutonic Knights (also depending on what we count as Lithuania, I guess – area called that back then, or now?)
You know, just something around half the recorded history of the area (particularly by the standard of “Note that I put quotes around the word colony. That is for a reason…”) / yup, seems yours may have some holes.
Quite the contrary, it emphasises how low the European countries have sunk. They’ve become a colony of one of their former colonies.
Here’s an off-topic flame-bait.
Thom probably meant “former rebellious colony”.
What you’re not getting is that the blokes in the old continent are getting quite fed up with the US policy of behind the doors lobbying.
In our democracies, new laws are subject to public debate unlike ACTA and other US horror stories. In the past few years, the land of freedom and democracy, has only tried to circumvent the will and sovereignty of the people of other countries that it calls friends.
Furthermore, the non-friends get invaded (Irak) under false pretences. In Irak they destroyed all traces of civility (women’s rights and education were thrown back 50 years over there). While Sadam was most probably a tyrant (we’ll never know for sure as history is written by the winners), the good old US of A acted without warrant, knowingly under false pretences and without a clear understanding of the consequences (see security, health, education and women’s rights).
The US of A is acting more like the old USSR every day and Thom wasn’t feeling superior but he was looking down on the US. Europe has it’s problems but nothing compares to the structural and civic problems that the citizens of the US have allowed their country to have.
But after some “debate” everthing, some way or another, is either accepted, or ovelooked, or silently condoned… to follow your examples: France´sthree strikes law, Spain´s Sinde law and Irak support, Britain irak support and a fragging citizen extradition (WTF!!!).
Europe is going that same way, it´s just they are still at the “massaging peoples brain” stage.
So to is Canada under the now majority government of the (neo)-Conservative right wing extremist prime minister Harper.
He is now trying very hard to follow the US instructions on the destruction of freedom and free speech on the internet as well as threatening to destroy our pension rights.
On the bright side the CAD is kicking ass, the resources sector of the economy is booming, the financial sector is rock solid, the job picture (versus historical trends) is pretty good, the Canadian GDP growth is wiping the floor with those of most first world economies, the energy sector continues to expand, and there are all sorts of other awesome things going for you guys.
So, yeah, Harper is a bit a nut but Canada is doing pretty well under his watch – which is probably why he keeps getting re-elected Let’s be honest though, Chrétien was a bit of a nut too – albeit a liberal one – so this sort of like a Canadian trend. 😉
When Canada becomes a profligate empire, “Blame Canada!” will be awesome ;>
Do you guys have a problem spelling Iraq?
Has it occurred to you it is not written “Iraq” even in their own language?…
Ref:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq#cite_note-1
No I didn’t think they were Spanish. Most people speak English when they comment and it is “Iraque” in British English, however if you were saying American English it would still sound correct as “Irak”.
Thus why I asked.
Edited 2012-02-06 19:44 UTC
Not usually. In most languages, like my own native Romanian it’s actually spelled Irak.
But hey, I don’t have an entire press department at my disposal to correct my spelling. Even with a press department, G.W. still managed to rename nuclear as nucular.
I have to confess I expect English spellings on an English speaking site.
However “Irak” is wrong for a “British” prognostication. It is correct of a US one though. However I think ours rolls off the tough better.
It’s to indicate that what was once a colony, has now risen far above its former colonisers. I don’t think that’s a good thing.
I like the relationship between, say, modern South American nations or Canada and Europe far more. South American countries have really come into their own, developed their own culture, and are now equal to the countries that once governed them. Yet, you don’t see South American countries or Canada trying to act like dicks. The US is the only former colony now seemingly ruling its colonisers.
The Netherlands committed horribly atrocities in its own colonies (especially in Indonesia). However, if you were to ask an Indonesian now if Indonesia should bribe, pressure, and try to rule The Netherlands, they’d most likely say something along the lines of “Of course not – why would we want to do unto you what we did not want you to do unto us?”
It’s not an arrogance thing – it’s just highlighting how most former European colonies are happy developing their own culture and ideas without trying to shove it down everybody else’s throat.
The way you phrased it made it sound a lot like jealousy.
South American countries had their own cultures back when we in the west still wore diapers. It was just suppressed be the colonial tyranny for a while.
See above.
Considering the upheavals and internal conflicts many former colonies have gone through this statement is patently false.
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Before European came to South American, the dominant cultures was the Maya empire from Mexico to northern Central America, Inca more to the south, and various tribes in the rain forest. Most of those cultures have been wiped out when the European invaded, through massacre, diseases and assimilation. And they never came back, right now, to the exception of a few countries such a Bolivia or Equator, the population of South America is dominated by people from European origin. The dominant culture is of a Latino (Spanish and Portuguese) inspiration.
Good point.
This is really not true. A significant proportion (probably most, we don’t actually know that well) of the native population after the beginning of European colonization of South America died due to disease, warfare, and the ilk. Also, there are very few South American people (maybe recent immigrants?) whose ancestry is not mixed. But at any rate, native cultures have both deeply influenced nearly every facet of South American life and have also in certain areas continued to have more or less independent existences.
Also, there is a significant logical flaw in your statement: you can’t be “wiped out” and “assimilated” at the same time.
Dominant origin of people does not equal dominant culture (see above). Like, not even remotely. Whatever “dominant culture” means.
Moreover, the population of a country like, say, Brazil, is largely dominated by people from West African origin. In other parts of South America, very often the most widespread “origin” (a somewhat misleading term since nearly everyone is of mixed descent) is native.
Well I live in a former colony and when I try to access that link I get a cloudfront access restricted message. It seems Pakistani ISPs IPs are suspicious. So looks like former colony stuff is still given weight in old Europe *and* US.
Edited 2012-02-05 23:56 UTC
just can it with the rhetoric. The current administration is owned by big movie, music, publishing and media using their dollars to bribe officials to get what they want. The result is this highly irresponsible use of US power in the world and strange policies of punish your friends and reward your foes.
This goes many ways – for example, big media is a fabulous tool of politics, of influencing people, too.
Also, from where do you think the people in administrations, official positions and… big companies come from? Those are largely also reflections of their societies.
Or: many people dream of their “chance” & part of the cake; relatively few would reject perks, given the chance (and anyway, “the people” are major shareholders of big business – via their savings, retirement funds, etc., and they tend to wish for maximum returns)
So you guys are just now realizing that the crackdown and raids on entities like the Pirate Bay in Sweden were initiated by the US? SHOCKER!!! So, what exactly tipped you off? Was it the fact that the Pirate Bay was committing wholesale infringement of US copyright? Who else did you suppose was behind all of that…. Casper? Did you REALLY expect the US to sit on its ass and do nothing? It’s like breaking into your neighbor’s house and stealing their shit, and then expressing outrage when they call the cops on you.
Edited 2012-02-05 14:25 UTC
No, we already knew that. But now there’s proof.
Why did you need proof of the obvious? Even a blind man could’ve seen that. Was there anyone who insisted that the US wasn’t involved?
«Obviousness» is no replacement for «facts».
[Citation needed]
Well actually, if you read the article, it’s mentioned several times that Falkvinge and the Pirate Party have been claiming this for years, and have been criticized as conspiracy theorists and nutjobs for it.
So, you might expect them to make a big deal out of it when there’s finally solid proof.
What is obvious to you might not be obvious to someone else.
For example I think it’s obvious that the US went to the moon back in -69, yet some people would argue that it was all a hoax.
Swedish officials tend to portray their country as independent, yes (likewise Swedish judges about their field)
except they did zero infringement. its USERS may have..
Get off your high horse. We as a country rebelled from Britain over exactly this type of behavior. It violates the very notion of the Declaration of Independence. Our government is so screwed up its about time we started over.
uhm… I would have thought that we, as an arguably more concerned and at least bit better informed bunch, would have realized by now that “Countries Are No More!!!” (TM) (*).
The operative words now are “Bussiness”, “Global” and “Puppets”.
And they have been for such a long time now…
(*) PS: I just registered that, don´t you dare using it or I´ll sue you!
There’s no piracy problem.
There’s an “access to content” problem.
And America is doing what it does best: going around beating up everybody else while trying to “fix” them.
Also, there’s a “he who stuffs the most cash in politicians’ campaign pockets wins” problem – and it just happens that the content-industry-lobbyist-machine has been doing this better and longer than most other industries. Until the internet came along, they “owned” the public attention with television, radio, and print (content-publishing formats that had a relatively high bar of entry).
Hopefully the newly-found recognition of these dirty politics spreading across the U.S. (and world at large) via the internet will begin to slow and reverse the damage done here – but I’m not holding my breath yet. These dinosaurs are huge, and may not go down easily.
Edited 2012-02-05 18:05 UTC
Quite so. TPB is an old example, the MegaUpload crackdown is just the latest example that America has decided that what it deems to be lawful on its own territory is also applicable to be lawful for the entire world.
America is acting like a mentally challenged high school bully, terrorizing the other kids in the classroom. When you promote stupidity, what you breed is arrogance. Its about time the world goes to college so we can regulate bullies like this outside of the school system, regulating them to flip burgers in a low-wage environment, where they belong.
Edited 2012-02-05 18:43 UTC
How such prestigious nations with such long and proud histories, like Sweden, The Netherlands, and so on, can succumb to pressure from a former colony is beyond me.
Seriously, Thom, that statement is one of the nuttier things you’ve written. It’s right up there with ‘Freedom Fries’.
It’s like arguing that the Greeks should lead Europe because, you know, their classical civilization provided the foundation of Western culture.
It’s ancient history dude.
The harsh reality is that he US is the sole military superpower, it’s the biggest economy and it’s culture influences every person on the planet (for good or ill).
Netherlands and Sweden are, of course, important nation states and significant economies but in the global context their impact is not tangible, militarily, culturally, or economically.
It’s in the overall best interest of their citizens to ‘integrate’ at least their military and economic policies with larger nations and institutions. Sometimes that means you make sure you chicken coops are of a certain size and sometimes you make sure the kids can’t download free movies.
Edited 2012-02-05 23:49 UTC
The Netherlands is the third largest investor in the United States. I wouldn’t strike such a hoity tone about this topic.
Of course, you entirely missed the point of my original remark – see my comment about that higher up.
I didn’t miss your point. I am simply explaining that your nationalist/colonial view is in no way relevant in todays highly globalized first world.
Let try this simpler analogy ..
We’re all in the same playground. One group of kids have lots of toys. If you want to play with some of their toys you have to play by some of their rules, even if you may not like them.
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PS. Just for the record, I am actually European. I’ve spent most of my career in Europe. Although I now make the US my home I have the greatest respect for Europe, it’s culture, it’s people, and it’s institutions.
Going by your analogy, that group of boys shouldn’t get to dictate how everyone else on the playground plays with their own toys. That’s what the US is doing. Iy would be one thing for us to say, “we don’t approve of your IP laws, so we aren’t selling you our stuff”. I wouldn’t have a problem with that. But for the US to dictate what you do with your own stuff is BS. If we don’t like it, we can always find some other customers.
You misunderstand the laws in question. If there are no laws protecting IP, indeed if the laws actively support the arbitrary distribution of IP, then the country in question would become a safe haven for exactly the sort of IP exploitation of US IP the US wants to address. This is pretty much exemplified by the Pirate Bay which was, for a long time, effectively protected by Swedish law.
The US does not give a shit about Swedish and Dutch IP.
Technically Canada is the 3rd largest foreign investor in the US, your country and Germany tend to swap 4th and 5th places every other year.
We can also discuss South Africa, or some other great “hits” from your “prestigious” and “proud” colonial history too if you want.
The Western World does love denial though. For the past half century, the US has been in denial about the fact that we are a de facto empire. And most European nations are in denial about the fact that they are just protectorates of the US.
Empires come and go. One day you’re a “prestigious and proud” empire, the next you’re the bitch of a newer “prouder” and “more prestigious” empire.
China
Alternatively you can be a man, stand up to the bully and do something about it. Like, I dunno, the Boston Tea-Party?
Ah yes but that would require a plurality of voters to actually care about this issue enough to vote a government who would ‘stand up’.
The reality is that this is basically a fringe issue to be debated by geeks like us and most people just don’t care (actually they probably don’t even know there is an issue).
I always thought of Sweden as an honest group. Shame one has to force them to follow international law. They shouldn’t be stealing stuff.
When colonies are formed with a base of skilled rather educated and working people they want to emancipate earlier, figures doesn’t it?.
Aware of gross oversimplifications… lets compare the British and Spanish colonies for example, British took the north, Spaniards the south, south America begun to be colonised around early 1500, while the north more that 100 years later, at least two generations regarding life expectancy around the time. North got to be independent first.
We all know what happened down here, Spain took waaay more than they chipped in. They decimated amazing civilisations for gold and silver that they later squandered in wars or donated some to the stupid church which was under much debate (after dividing the world in half to Portuguese and Spanish discoverers, just lookup the treaty of Tordesillas, British were to “piraty” at the time it seems) to decide if south American Indians actually had a soul.
All colonies had it rough, no doubt, but America contributed so much gold, silver, crops such as corn, potato, tomato, chiles and what not…
“and all we got as some lousy death-roll inmates, deceases, some religion, mirrors and lousy tee shirts”.
The USA is late in the game and its just catching up, same shit with this colon-oscopy thingie, just different times, at least now thanks to the internet we know….
…
..
.and the more you know
The conditions of areas themselves also play a role in long term developments… for one example, tropical diseases certainly were a major limiting factor (vs. temperate north) for Latin America well into XX century.
(with Church it was also less clear then you make it out to be, for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_Reductions …and note I’m generally the first to point out the idiocies of Vatican – firmly standing behind silly mythologies not even being the worst; or: “around early 1500” wasn’t really when the colonisation started, the times were much more comparable; those “amazing civilisations” were also decimating themselves quite successfully, Spaniards just took one side; or: the, yes, “piraty” British created quite a headache for Spanish shipping down the line; or: north was also largely French)
Edited 2012-02-13 00:19 UTC
I’ll remain silent on who has colonized whom, mostly to avoid flames from arrogant European programmers (doubly arrogant!) who like to bash well-informed Americans on this site.
But as an intelligent human who happens to have a Western sense of humor, Thom’s comment has something that we in the Anglophone world like to call wryness.
Being bicultural and bilingual myself, I know that a lot of non-Western cultures wouldn’t see the dark humor in what Thom wrote, and I think that it’s a bit of an untranslatable statement. Nevertheless, I will attempt to translate.
He’s not saying that the colonizers are better than the former colonies and therefore that they should know better. Just the opposite, he’s subtly adding the shame of this collusion–made all the more shameful by the irony of the fact that the U.S. was once a colony but now acts as a colonizer–to the overtowering heap of crap that Europeans have to be ashamed about. Shame. That is what makes this humor so wry.
If you were paying close enough attention, there is a double irony in there, which is that no educated Westerner can invoke such metaphors without realizing that she is perpetuating the wrongs of colonialism even as she uses it to point blame back at her own society. That by using colonial metaphors as a joke, she is essentially colonizing history for her own humor, just as her forefathers colonized other countries for their own gain. Hence, you get reactions like the first commenter’s, whose naive sentiment is absolutely right: what right have you, Thom, to use that history as a joke? And Thom is equally right, because that’s just how wry humor works. I think it’s one of the few things that’s quintessentially Western.
Mind you, not that Westerners think all these things out consciously when they make jokes like this, but that is the sentiment behind them.
FWIW, I got a good chuckle. Well played, sir.
why are democratic governments working against their people again?
oh yeah, because democratic governments work for businesses. because voting isn’t enough to make a democracy. here’s to your laws being written by lobbyists at foreign embassies.