Carlos Perez has posted 25 reasons why he thinks Java is a better platform than .NET while Jason Whittington has an opposite article counteracting Carlos’ arguments.
Weblog Wars: Why Java is better than .NET (and the opposite)
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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The government (or rather the Congress) approved with the DMCA, should be take it as better as the average WIPO law?
A recent survey reveals “Interestingly, the strong showing of Visual C# .NET divides the Microsoft camp and propels Java into first place as the most popular language over the coming year”. In corporations, there are more developers familiar with Java than any other language. The benefit is that there’s a higher chance that someone can maintain or fix a java program than that written in any other language. Do you think you’ll find someone in your corporation who will be able to fix that legacy VB application 2 years from now?
Isn’t this the very same argument MS use for Windows against Linux? Because there are all these people floating around who can fix your machine Linux will never be succesful on the desktop. Then maybe MS should apply their marketing .NET and conclude that because their are loads of college kids able to fix you’re Java app you’ll never find .NET in the workplace.
Hi
What I need is a scripting language (such as Perl, PHP or Python) with a native GUI that would work on Linux, Windows, Mac and co. Best of all, I’d like it be compilable so that I can create static binaries for each platform.
Does that exist ? Is there any plan to create one ?
How about Python with wxPython?
http://www.wxpython.org/screenshots.php
I couldnt find a single technical argument for Java… I counted 20 reasons that just show that Java is older and more mature and 5 that are a result of the current lack of implementations or their bad quality/license (which is again a result of .Net’s age – when Mono and maybe other implementations are finshed they may be gone).
The Java arguments page is down, the .NET arguments are still up. So I guess .NET wins the war
Seriously, people, use Python and wxPython!
like the Pros use
And Ada
….wasted their time and energy for nothing. Here is my list:
WHY JAVA IS BETTER THAN .NET:
1. MICROSOFT.
Thats all folks.
: )
Deniz Kaan Copur.
….the last time I have checked, Carlos reached 71 reasons. Here is the reasons between 25-50. Eh, Jason Whittington, the representative of Microsoft Marketing Department, should continue writing his stupid arguments matching the remaining in his web log I guess.
Here the reasons between 1-50:
http://www.freeroller.net/page/ceperez/20030113
If break neck performance isn’t required, use Ruby (or python or whatever)+Fox. I don’t think this works with Mac though…the wxWindows extensions are horribly bloated…
Basicly pro Java has been using mostly the standard arguments for Java. and the arguments for .Net were just as weak. I much rather use Java then .Net myself for the simple fact that Sun dosent have issues with GNU licensed software. I like GNU Software but I also like a lot of software that has many differnt licenses. So basicly I feel that there will always be a wider base for Java then .Net. Because they are so simular technically with their own advantages and disadvantages I rather have the one that I feel has a better chanse of staying on a wider range of platforms.
As I look it the reason Sun Likes Java.
The more cross platform the applications are the more likly that people will buy hardware archecture they like the best. And Sun sells nice hardware. While Microsoft who has the dominace is afrade of Java because they are loosing some of their customers to other platforms.
Microsoft made .Net to be like Jave but to controol who uses it or not so they will allow large accecptance in the begining and if it kills jave they will slowly let other platforms rot.
I never understand the argument that there are more jobs listed on Monster.com for Java than for C#. Java has been around since what, something like late ’95, early ’96. C# has been around since 2000. How can they compare a language that’s been around over 6 years to a language that’s been around for 2?
Also, if you read the arguments for, not many of them are saying why Java itself is better than C#. It’s more to do with more programmers, free tools, different company versions, more IDE’s, etc.
Is python compilable ?
What about JPython?
http://www.jython.org/
: )
Deniz Kaan Çopur.
Here’s my list
WHY .NET IS BETTER THAN JAVA:
1) Sun
That’s it folks 🙂
Python can be compiled, using Pyscho. http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1940
Not sure if it runs on Windows though.
Alternate view of the list:
http://www.javablogs.com/ViewBlog.jspa?id=10056
Of course, rajan_r, I don’t recall Sun being convicted of illegal monopolization, market abuse, and “standards pollution”…
OK
I think you don’t understand my problem. I want something that can be compiled or that can be considered standard. So I need a scripting language that doesn’t need a module to have a GUI or a scripting langauge that needs a module but that can be compiled. I read that PERL was compilable but never managed to complie any GUI program using Perl.
tell the pro-java arguments to my officemates, and they won’t care. they’re already pro-microsoft. tell those who are pro-java about microsoft’s c# (not vb).net, and they’ll probably look into it and see what it’s all about.
you know what my main problem is? my officemates love .net so much. but ask them to program without visual studio.net and they won’t be able to. so it’s not the languages that they love. it’s the tools. i love the fact that most java developers are able to develop with a simple text editor WHEN NEEDED or maybe a free IDE. my officemates on the other hand won’t be able to. they need the intellisense, the gui drag and drop, the press-this-and-magically-work buttons.
maybe this is the difference of java and .net. java folks tend to live with what they can get. .net folks (and most microsoft folks) somewhat only works when they have the microsoft tools and the wizards to help them.
You know, business has not always been as open to alternative platforms like Linux. Seems to me, that java was what kept that door open.
It has some benefits:
– superior legacy system integration, try that with .NET,
and phyton and Ruby and ..
– it ‘s a marketplace, not a company that is behind it
– for a business tool, it ‘s pretty darn open ..
to all the linux people: give Sun the credit they deserve!
Here’s my list
WHY SUN IS BETTER THAN MS:
1) MS LIES
2) MS CHEATS
3) MS STEALS
4) MS BRIBES
5) MS SEES OPEN SOURCE AS A #1 ENEMY
That’s all folks =)
Rajan r, do you think you are genius or something? I laugh at your comments with my ass! =)
Both have dawn lies and stupid arguments, both have good points. So, we end with FUD and Marketing PR.
For now, the only thing I am sure is that I will wait for an OFFICIAL release of .NET before comparing.
On the paper, .NET seems more interesting, but this is only on paper. By the way, Java is there and is in use even if it seems more limited than .NET.
About .NET, MS should be tried to clarify what .NET aims for instead of stupid PR (server use like java ? client ? both ? replace Win32 ? .NET seems more and more like a joke).
Both have dawn lies and stupid arguments, both have good points. So, we end with FUD and Marketing PR.
True… true
For now, the only thing I am sure is that I will wait for an OFFICIAL release of .NET before comparing.
On the paper, .NET seems more interesting, but this is only on paper. By the way, Java is there and is in use even if it seems more limited than .NET.
Um .NET 1.0 have been released for quite some time now. .NET 1.1 is coming out soon and that includes the Compact thingy. .NET is alive and kicking
About .NET, MS should be tried to clarify what .NET aims for instead of stupid PR (server use like java ? client ? both ? replace Win32 ? .NET seems more and more like a joke)
MS marketing with regards to .NET have been anything but clear and the recent changes in naming of the server OS etc. just shows this.
To CroanoN:
Grow up will ya… bad language and insults is the first sign of someone that have no valid arguments
“Grow up will ya… bad language and insults is the first sign of someone that have no valid arguments”
I don’t fucking agree. =) There is no relation between using bad language or insults and having no valid argument. Actually, I find this statement fucking stupid. Prove that it is not.
=)
Oh, I forgot to include a proof dear Chreo. Here it is:
I was borned in a fucking city called Ankara.
Most large companies use Unix and/or OS/400. If they want to have a web interface to the existing applications, then they most likely want on they can run on the server. Currently MSFT’s .NET only runs under MS Windows. Thus they have to use something else… enter Java. .NET is closely related to the MS Windows system with 2/3 of its API being tied to the OS. The offical MS cross platform version of .NET only supports about 30% of the APIs avaible on the MS Windows version. MSFT also released the C# language for standardization; while this is good, they only release a small subset of their APIs to the standards body.
Any standards compliant .NET system will not run 90% of the code written using MSFT’s tools. These means that the people working on the cross platform versions of .NET will have to reverse engineer the APIs which MSFT can modify at any time since they are not part of the standard.
Mono is going a long ways towards trying to make .NET work everywere; however, MSFT can release .NET 2.0 next year; force everyone to upgrade to it and supply upgrade utilities to automatically upgrade the binaries on the MS Windows system and not document the runtime so Mono can fix their system. Result: no cross platform .NET (remember, only the API’s and language are standards; not the runtime).
Sun has documented the Runtime and APIs. They haven’t release the language for standards; they should. Sun has always worked with and licensed their product to any company wishing to support it on their OS. Sun has also done ports to other systems on their own without waiting for the other company to request it (they have a Linux and MS Windows VM). Part of the licensing process is to turn over a copy of the generic VM code to the company; MSFT has yet to offer this to any company.
We had problems with IE leaving our systems open to attack from the net. Had to go to Phoenix for our primary browser for security reasons yes even on Windows. We now find parts of some .NET sites will no longer work. Sooo…
If you are on the net to connect with all users, Java based production is the best.
Unix is best for running a secure server. Linux is a close next best. Most security consultants do not consider Windows 2000 a securable environment. So if you want a truly secure servers Java is your only choice.
One side note: We actually had a firm using Windows 2000 & IIs trying to sell us a service that required good security on their servers that replied that they had a secure environment because their servers were behind bullet proof glass! Needless to say we selected a competitor that used a hardened Unix server with excellent security measures in place and no bullet proof glass.
*tisk tisk* No bullet proff glass? What are server rooms coming to this days?
“Grow up will ya… bad language and insults is the first sign of someone that have no valid arguments”
I don’t fucking agree. =) There is no relation between using bad language or insults and having no valid argument. Actually, I find this statement fucking stupid. Prove that it is not
I will gladly.
I don’t fucking agree. : Not an argument, you’re only disagreeing with me, using bad language, could’ve been said just as well “I don’t agree”
Actually, I find this statement fucking stupid. : Again not an argument, you show no evidence/argument why my statement was false
Oh, I forgot to include a proof dear Chreo. Here it is:
I was borned in a fucking city called Ankara. : This is not an argument, this is a stupid way of saying a statement about your place of birth. It is a true statement unless you’re lying, then it is a false statement.
There is no “proof” that my statement is correct other than empirical.
If you have proper arguments about why Java is better than .NET then let us hear them, there are plenty to go around without badmouthing MS. I can give you a few just to start things off: “Java is mature and more stable becuase it has more years of usage” and another: “Java apps are today a lot more portable than .NET apps”, a third: “Java is better because there are more finished frameworks available, many which are free”.
There is no need to talk bad about people you haven’t met as a proper and valid argument speaks for itself. An argument stated using bad languange (bad as in swearing and namecalling) can be diminished in value in those hearing/reading it because of the bad language. Why? Every1 interprets things in their own subjective way.
I try to use as little namecalling and “powerwords” in online discussions even tho I use them in my spoken vocabulary. I feel that the relative anonymity you get online is not a freeticket to badmouthing things and people, especially since I’ll never get to meet them in person and therefor will have to be held resposible to it. Let’s make this a better place/planet, shall we?
“I don’t fucking agree. : Not an argument, you’re only disagreeing with me, using bad language, could’ve been said just as well “I don’t agree””
1. “I don’t fucking agree” is an fucking argument, since it can be fucking true or fucking false. Go and retake your fucking Logic courses if you had any.
2. I can say any fucking thing in any fucking way.
“Actually, I find this statement fucking stupid…..”
As fucking above.
“I was borned in a fucking city called Ankara…..”
As fucking above.
“If you have proper arguments about why Java is better than .NET then let us hear them”
I fucking did millions of times. Read the fucking OSNews archives.
I have no fucking any other comment on remaining bla blas.
=)
wow……over the past 1 month I have seen this site go from something worth looking at each day to a bunch of people with nothing else better to do just bitch. So long OSNews as you have become just another /. breeding ground.
Its sad to see what the IT world is coming to….time for me to leave it.
So long all….
Please, adding explitives doesn’t make your arguement stronger. It may show us that you are emphatic, but it is more likely to show us that you are immature and don’t have an ounce of business sense. Go tell your boss and/or your clients to f*** off and see what comes out of it.
I notmally rarely use words like “FUCKING”.
But if some person is idiot enough to suggest that my arguments are wrong just because i used some bad word, I enjoy having fun with him very much. Sorry for the offended souls.
=)
1. “I don’t fucking agree” is an fucking argument, since it can be fucking true or fucking false. Go and retake your fucking Logic courses if you had any.
Sorry but you are wrong here. The statement I don’t fucking agree” gives us NO NEW knowledge about what we are discussing and is therefor NOT an argument. This is an argument “I don’t fucking agree because research shows that badmouthers show higher level of intelligence” as it gives us new knowledge.
[i]2. I can say any fucking thing in any fucking way.
I never said you couldn’t. It is my belief that this
1. I do say may clients and boss “fucking”. They love it.
2. I never suggested that adding explitives make my arguments stronger. I do not think that people use explitives to make their arguments stronger anyway.
3. If you think that using explitives may show you that I am emphatic, or immature, or have no business sense, you prove yourself that you are wrong, since I am not emphatic, I am not immature, or I am not without business sense. Please come to your senses.
4. OSNews is not a business ground anyways.
=)
welcome back to the .NET vs Java comments. .
i’m a developer with about 8 years of experience, most of my developments was written in Borland Delphi, in the las 15 months i turned to java, is an excelent languaje.
i will continue to develop on java but .NET is an interesting technology (good or bad i don’t care) in terms of work oportunities.
so, learsn .NET
Dude, you insult right from your first comment. You obviously can’t discuss with other people. You do not respect other people’s opinions and you talk badly. I am a java supporter overall, but you lad, you are a disgrace to all the Java folks. I suggest you cool down.
Where are the moderators on this site?? Reading other discussions but this one??
I just wanted to read it but it says:
All | Java | News | Thoughts | Trading | 101 List
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Lets say, Java sucks, ok?
Editors, please block the emails that have nothing to do
with the topic…(like this one?:-)
The best comparative overview between Java and C# I have found is at http://genamics.com/developer/csharp_comparative.htm
This is solely about the technical aspects of the language, and not about the Java and .NET frameworks/environments.
I personally like Java’s framework most over any other framework I have worked with, it just exactly fits my taste. But Java still feels slow and not native to me. I don’t actually care about the “write once, run anywhere” idea (note: I’m a client application developer), with .NET you have access to specific windows features which I’d like to use. Java can’t do this. And last, I like Java’s simple syntax, it’s easy to get a grip on the language, but I prefer C#’s delegates over Java’s interfaces for event handling.
Conclusion: I still haven’t found my perfect language environment. Java has the best framework, .NET is better on other parts. But there is no single environment which combines all, not yet.
Unless you are new here, I absolutely 100% disagree with antitrust laws in every area of it. And in the case of Sun, if they had the same amount of power as Microsoft, they would be in deeper shit than Microsoft with antitrust laws.
WHY SUN IS BETTER THAN MS:
1) MS LIES
In what way?
2) MS CHEATS
Yes, they cheat. In a country, there are five racers. Racer #1 is two times faster than #2, thus the gap. Now the government is worried that because of runner #1, the rest can’t perform well, so they decide to cut off their legs. Would that make the rest of the runners faster?
All of Microsoft competitors have one or more of these qualities
1) A business model that limits that company to a certain market share
2) Terrible management
3) Short-sighted
4) Absolutely not one inkling of marketing
5) Not knowing who are their real competitors.
Now let’s take Apple as an example, they have quality 1 and 2. Or Be have quality 2 and 4. Or Netscape 2 and 3. or IBM (their OS/2 division) have quality 3. Sun 3 and 5.
3) MS STEALS
If you mean stealing ideas, well, no I don’t see that as a crime otherwise you wouldn’t state your #6. But as for stealing code and IP, I never agreed with it if it is done illegally. As a big company, that happens with Microsoft, and they paid millions of dollars for it.
4) MS BRIBES
When?
5) MS SEES OPEN SOURCE AS A #1 ENEMY
Sun see Micosoft as enemy #1. Should I boycott them? Should I uninstall their Java VM and OpenOffice.org? There is nothing wrong with a company finding a another group or another company their biggest competitive threat especially when they are, the last time I checked.
Rajan r, do you think you are genius or something? I laugh at your comments with my ass! =)
Great, I learnt something new today that CroanoN laughes with his baby donkey. Yee haw yee haw yee haw…
hahaha, nice post Rajan R. I really love your posts. The sound of logic in this whole madness.
“WHY SUN IS BETTER THAN MS:
1) MS LIES
In what way?”
Short answer: In many ways. For example, they said that Windows will be released for other hw, so that its core is written in assembler and other parts with C. Did they do it? No. Another example: They lied and approached to many companies to steal their ideas and work force.
2) MS CHEATS
Yes, they cheat. In a country, there are five racers. Racer #1 is two times faster than #2, thus the gap. Now the government is worried that because of runner #1, the rest can’t perform well, so they decide to cut off their legs. Would that make the rest of the runners faster?
>> 3) MS STEALS
>> “But as for stealing code and IP, I never agreed with it >> if it is done illegally. As a big company, that happens >> with Microsoft, and they paid millions of dollars for it.”
So, they steal.
>> 4) MS BRIBES
>> When?
Two years ago. And last month.
>> 5) MS SEES OPEN SOURCE AS A #1 ENEMY
>> Sun see Micosoft as enemy #1. Should I boycott them?
>> Should I uninstall their Java VM and OpenOffice.org?
Sun does not see MS as their #1 enemy. Should you boycott them? It is up to you. I said, Sun is with open source. I am with open source. MS hates open source, and Mr. Billy the McCarty sees open source as a VIRUS and COMMUNIST EFFORD. This, only, is enough to make me HATE them. So, Sun is better then MS for me.
In all the cases, it is interesting to see some well behaved christian to support such an unethical company. Good luck Rajan in your future endouvres. : ))))
>> Rajan r, do you think you are genius or something? I
>>laugh at your comments with my ass! =)
>> Great, I learnt something new today that CroanoN laughes
>>with his baby donkey. Yee haw yee haw yee haw…
Actually my donkey is not a baby, but quite big. =) If you are interested, send me a mail. You can’t touch it though. Although I am bisexual, I am not interested in flesh of some christian american. =))))
WHY SUN IS BETTER THAN MS:
1) MS LIES
In what way?”
Short answer: In many ways. For example, they said that Windows will be released for other hw, so that its core is written in assembler and other parts with C. Did they do it? No. Another example: They lied and approached to many companies to steal their ideas and work force.
Um yes they did release Windows NT for other platforms, They released Windows NT for the Alpha and the PowerPC architecture. They dropped support with the introduction of Win2000 due to little interrest/low numbers. The PowerPC userbase that might be interrested in Win2k and XP sure haven’t grown since then. Y do you think the install folder on a Windows NT CD is named i386? That’s because you have folders PPC and Alpha(?) also.
About approaching companies to steal ideas etc. They all do this. They have to. You’d want the best people working for you wouldn’t you? It’s a war out there and they all do their best to survive. Perhaps you should do a reality check sometimes?
I don’t mean that buisness as usual is a good thing but that’s the way it currently works and you’re a fool to think one company is any better than the next.
Sun does not see MS as their #1 enemy. Should you boycott them? It is up to you. I said, Sun is with open source.
Yes, Sun do see MS as their no 1 enemy. Have you read any interviews Scott McNealy recently where he states otherwise cos he sure as hell have made his view on MS clear in the past. SUN is NOT with OpenSource any more than Apple is. Star(Open)Office WAS already open source when SUN bought it. Java is “open” by necessity because if it wasn’t, it would be a dead dog with C++ tiretracks all over it. You always have bigger problems getting something crossplatform when the software is closed. SUN had bigger fishes to fry when they went ahead with Java. If SUN would’ve known that Java would’ve been a success even if it’d been closed, Java would’ve been closed before you’d be able to say “swingdoor”.
3) MS STEALS
All major corporations do this. Or have you failed to notice those large legal departments that they have. Do you think they have them “just in case”? Again, this is something SUN does too. As do Apple (the Watson copy, Sherlock 3). They are all guilty of this accusation.
4) MS BRIBES
>> When?
Two years ago. And last month.
Again this is something they all do. In some countries you, most unfortunately, even have to in order to do buisness. Does this mean SUN doesn’t bribe people? No. Just because no police have stopped me for speeding yet does not mean I don’t drive to fast almost every day. Guilty, but not charged…