Nowadays, all you hear about is Windows, MacOS X, or GNU/Linux. However, what ever happened to the good old BeOS?
As most of you know, Be Inc. shifted focus on its business too many times that it ended up hurting itself. It is quite simply put: Like many failed businesses out there, they made some unrecoverable mistakes. However, I am not going to sit you down here to read about some analysis that states what Be Inc. should and should not have done. Instead, I am going to show you that something is stirring in the depths of the Net. The continuous existence of their prized OS.
The actual OS is still around and is being used by many, and I mean many, enthusiasts. You can go over to BeBits.com [http://www.bebits.com] and download one of the versions of BeOS available that was released by Be Inc. a year or so ago. You will find the BeOS 5 Personal Edition [http://www.bebits.com/app/2680] along with its updates that will install under a GNU/Linux or a Windows partition. I believe you can find the retail version of the OS, the BeOS 5 Pro Edition at Softline.fr [http://www.softline.fr/result.asp?MotCle=beos#].
So who is really keeping this OS alive and going? The BeOS community, who else?
Even though Be Inc. shut its doors and sold itself to Palm back in 2001, the BeOS community left behind did not waste a second. The developers of the community are working hard on creating a clone that will equal, if not, exceed the power of the current BeOS 5, bringing a whole new breath of life to the OS. It kind of redefines the meaning of “the future OS”.
Open Source projects such as OpenBeOS [http://www.openbeos.org], BlueEyedOS [http://www.blueeyedos.com], and Zeta [http://www.yellowtab.com], just to name a few, began working hard on making sure that the BeOS era continues to grow. The whole BeOS community is relying on these projects to make this happen.
However, these Open Source projects are not working alone. BeUnited.org [http://www.beunited.org] just recently opened its standards portal so that it can define and then promote standards among the Open Source projects. However, the standards portal does more than just make sure that standards are created and followed but, as well, it is involved in porting of software applications and the continuation of others. Such as porting of the OpenOffice [http://www.openoffice.org] or the continuous development on Gobe Productive 3.0 [http://www.gobe.com/storegobeproductive.html].
There are still several, if not many, software applications being developed for the existing OS. There are support forums, news sites, other OS clones or derivatives that are under development.
So as you can see, life did not stop for this OS. However, this does not mean that it is doing just fine. It is doing good, but it can do better.
The community still needs help to grow even more. Many areas still need attention and can not be left for the current developers to do all the work. Areas such as porting of other existing Open Source software and hardware drivers are so far the most important.
Even if help can not be provided in the areas mentioned. Developers looking to help can try to offer their hand in the development of the current clones. To put it quite bluntly, when there is a will there is way and for sure there is a way for any one of us to help out.
Does this mean that BeOS is making a comeback? All I can say is that it sure does look promising. I would have rather told you all about the clone OSes in detail, but I’m going to leave you to delve into their sites and judge for yourself.
—
George N., a.k.a. ClumzyKid, has been in the Computer Science community for the past 12 years. He has seen and touched a Risc OS, most x86’s, and most of the Windows incarnations – Let’s throw in a couple of Macs while we’re at it! Main interests fall in the cross-platform technologies,
particularly in Web Design and Development, Computer Graphic Design in general, and Techie work. You can find him lingering on Beshare and IRC Undernet channels. If you want to get his full attention you can contact him at [email protected].
Zeta is not a open source project.. As for Gobe Productive, a 3.0 version of any version of Be OS remains to be seen…
why would anyone want to use BeOS? seems just be another way to BeDifferent…. If i see some apps come around, AKA compatibility with linux and gtk then ill definately give it a try. But until then wtmfp?
Almost anyone who reads this website knows EXACTLY what happened to BeOS. Don’t get me wrong, I was one of the biggest BeOS advocates around and used it religiously around the time of R4.5 – R5. I’m talking 24/7 for at least a year. But the focus shift really shafted a lot of people and soured many to the whole BeOS experience.
I loved the BeOS just as much as anyone else but I’m starting to get a little tired of these articles that just rehash old memories or talk about another BeOS clone project that is pre-pre-pre Alpha.
Yesterday I installed BeOS PE Max Edition 2.1, the install went great, but afterwards when the computer was booting it would freeze right after it listed the IDE devices. I deleted the partition and cleared the MBR using a different computer, and it didn’t freeze anymore. I know it was just my computer. Maybe I’ll try Be some other time, when I get a new computer or a later version.
Hi!
Yes, you’re correct: Zeta is not opensource.
But remember: Don’t flame BlueEyedOS yet, because the sources will be avaliable later
Now OpenBeOS, all is there…
Michael Vinícius de Oliveira
BlueEyedOS Webmaster
on our newest computer. Works like a charm, no configging required, except for the keyboard map – had to choose Finnish Latin.
I tried out the newest version of Sequitur. I composed some new stuff…. oh yes, BeOS just works.
A friend of mine installed PE on a Thinkpad T23. All he needed were the S3 drivers from BeBits, and his laptop was working very well. I’m glad, because my next laptop has to be a thinkpad – I’m too used to the TrackPoint (i.e. the nipple).
I installed BeOS 5 PE Max Edition and it’s easy to use:) very very easy. Try it!!!
I hate to be cynical, but I don’t know that any of these projects are going to get anywhere. As Eugina once stated, it took Be Inc. 10 years with 50 programmers to get up to what they left off with (R5), and there isn’t much of a chance that 10 part-time programmers are going to finish it any time soon. It does look promising, I must admit (I believe that BFS is literally 99.9% done in the OpenBeOS project), however I doubt that it will release R1 (their clone of R5) within the next year or two.
That having been said, I do pray for it every night, I just don’t think it’ll happen.
Anybody know where I can get a version of BeOS for my powermac? I remember a few years ago that my powermac (8600) was listed as one of the macs that BeOS can run on.
– Mark
BlueEyedOS – that I’m not sure because the sources are not released yet under the license you guys picked, and you haven’t submited the license to the OSI to be certified as a open source license. But for Zeta I’m plenty sure it isn’t open source.
The actual OS is still around and is being used by many, and I mean many, enthusiasts.
Any hard numbers or are you just out there to generate some hype?
Any why yet another BeOS article while no big new developments are there?
The day a BeOS clone with the functionality of what R6 was said to bring materializes is the day when there are actual news, not just rumourmongering.
It took Be 10 years with 50 programmers to *design* and write from scratch Be OS. What OBOS, B.E.OS and Zeta is to clone all or certain parts of it, meaning no time-consuming initial designing stages needs to take place.
Besides, from what I have read, it seems Zeta has some license code, is it true?
It took Be 10 years with 50 programmers
you just have to look at syllable and what it is derived from to prove this argument wrong. one man job? by the above logic, it should have taken hundreds of years maybe?
Beos 5 for about 12 euros?
Anyone tried this?
And do they ship to England? Hmmm?!?!
However it isn’t nearly as complete as BeOS. He didn’t do the kernel from scratch, the file system from scratch, the GUI from scratch, etc. And I’ll bet you that Syllable is not nearly as complete as BeOS R5.
Yes, it took Be a long time to get where they got… but they have already done all the hard work! The architecture has been defined, there are well-documented APIs… the work that truly requires skilled engineering has been done. The kernel has already been written and is based on NewOS, so that huge chunk of work is already taken care of. The OpenBeOS team has a perfect ‘roadmap’ to follow, and what’s more they don’t have the “chicken and egg” problem of trying to write an OS without having that OS to develop on. They can write each part, and test it on a real live BeOS system to see if it works as expected. That puts them WAY ahead of any other OS project starting from scratch. Plus, a lot of Be’s time was originally spent on creating a hardware platform, then porting it to PPC, then porting it to x86, etc… the OpenBeOS team has a clear goal of recreating an OS that is binary- and source-compatible with BeOS, and they have made very clear progress toward that goal. They don’t have to worry about stupid “business” stuff like dealing with impatient investors who just want to turn a quick profit.
I agree that it might be a year or two before we have a truly working version of OpenBeOS… but frankly, I cannot wait until that day. Go OBOS!!!! (And variants thereof…
I too say my little OBOS prayer every night. But I *DO* think it will happen.
Now, I don’t want to be cynical. It would be great to have OpenBeOS all fired up and ready to play around with. I haven’t had any experience with BeOS or really knew anything much about this OS until about now-ish. A “new” OS getting ready? Wow, that’s really interesting… So I was really exited when I read this article with the grand title “The Comeback of a Classic OS” only to fell that familiar sinking feeling of “yeah, right…” when I looked at OpenBeOS status chart.
http://open-beos.sourceforge.net/status.php
Out of 13 major segments 3 are in Beta, 3 are in Alpha, 5 are in Pre-Alpha and 2 are in Planning. Yupp, it looks like OpenBeOS is “just around the corner any day now” [insert cynical sneer here]. Wake me when you have got any real OS news to report. Damn, I knew it was too good to be true.
In other news the Commodore 64 makes an amazing comeback. Once thought of as a dead platform the c64 is kept alive by a small but very delusional user community. Here’s local c64 enthusiest Jim Beam to comment.
“Well you know, the thing is, I been using the 64 since the beginning of time really. You know, its, its been a part of my daily routine for so many years I’d sure hate to quit it. I get up in the morning, start my email package loading, go have a shower, then a coffee, then brush my teeth, then I check on the status of my email software. Its not usually loaded by then, so I then proceed to go make some tea biscuits. Another thing I really like is the fact that I can save data on cassettes. You just can’t do that with modern day pc’s, it’s really quite a tragedy. If not for the 64 I’d likely be stuck listenning to my wife’s celion dion tapes for the rest of eternity.”
Jim smunched up his face momentarily then continued on.
“I just told her the radiation from solar flares destroyed them. That’s perfectly plausible as far as I’m concerned.”
Tune in next week for the live panel discussion about secret Microsoft programmer and pro-terrorist Osama Bin Laden.
If you look at the status, you will immediately see three projects in beta. However, upon closer inspection, you realize that they are the file system, printing, and translation. The last two are unimportant, to say the least. I’d say that three of the most important (the file system is important, but not nearly as important as these)–app/interface, kernel, and networking–are not even in alpha. Sure, you can replace the BFS with the [Open]BFS, but that’s about the extent of the operating system.
I have tried BeOS PE r5, even got my hands on BeOS Dano, but it’s performance are pritty lame, true boots quickly but plaing divx is better on my WindowsXP and browsing the internet is much much better! Even with Bone the internet on BeOS SUCKS!
I really tried to like it but with no sucsess.
I hope that the new projects will prove me wrong.
Windows XP Professional fan.
so lets be sure to rehash this in another two weeks.
Why not do some more interviews with perhaps, oh say .. the ‘tao group’ or IBM’s head of ‘Developer works’?
I like the ‘BeOS’ as much as the next guy but lets be quite real about something and that is ‘to each his own’
Open-beos is taking the step, as small as they may be, but they are doing it, Yellowtab and their ‘zeta’ is a great addition also.
So i want to key in on what someone wrote earlier. can we have some news other than an optimists view?
and as for linux, it works , after some configuring and tweaking, same with windows and most of the other os’s outthere, beos did what _I_ liked hence I use it!
some people may not like it, they use other os’s, fine if it works for them.
and as for the people noting that it took 50 engineers to do what became known as beos, note that they were working from null, openbeos will come along when its done.
I still consider that they should work on the kernel a bit more since its the most gargantuan effort they have to face.
almost everything is documented for the reimplementation, but you also have to note that they dont just want it to be a beos clone they want to take it a step further.
(albeit pull the symbols of the kernel and notice some phunky hooks)
but still i cant see the problem some people here have with people doing their own thing, its mostly like the linux and windows crowd has become more… agressive in their ‘assimilation’ I dont like this sort of thing, its not to the spirit of OpenSource.
Let people do their own thing, period!
like ‘linus’ did back in the days.
it certainly did boot fast, like 3 seconds or something ridicolous like that……but I thought I was windows 3.1 at first….
i couldn’t get my internet connection working, so after a few days of trial and error it’s gone…
i’ll certainly try openbeos when it gets to closer to beta, but I’m happy with my linux box. it’ll take one heck of effort to get me to open up space for it….
good luck to the developers and community though…
zhopon said
“I have tried BeOS PE r5, even got my hands on BeOS Dano, but it’s performance are pritty lame, true boots quickly but plaing divx is better on my WindowsXP and browsing the internet is much much better! Even with Bone the internet on BeOS SUCKS!
”
You’re true, but don’t forget that your beOS is not optimised for the new cpu. Nothing was really done for 2 years on BeOS. Comparing BeOS to linux, windowsXP or mac os X isn’t really fair today.
The network has always been a strong bad point for BeOS.
But the thing is OpenBFS works, and seems faster than the original file system. And the project is less than one year ! Give the projects some time, and maybe clones of BeOS will be good alternative to some actual OS.
I know a lot of people said the same thing about other projects, but I can’t wonder why all the three projects don’t merge into one and split the tasks between them… I’m quite sure all three have different ideas of how to make it, but the final product would be the same, don’t it?
We need more articles about current status of BeOS, anyone can cadidate?
I, for example, want reviews of code that have best funcionality than BeOS. (the network kit of OpenBeOS (in alpha stage) is fastest than BeOS…), etc…
NewOS threading is faster than BeOS?
Linux SMP is faster than BeOS?
Write an article. I could help in fulll of time!
Michael Vinícius de Oliveira
WoW, I love BeOS and use it as often as possible.
It’s nice to finally see something which is not bloated *cough* Windows/Linux *cough* and based on modern technology, not outdated stuff as above mentioned.
OpenBeOS status list is definitely out of date and the biggest kits are close to completion with one exception… the kernel..
But I guess people prefer tweaking the OLD Linux kernel rather than the NEW NewOS kernel for some reason… perhaps because it’s not cool to be handy with a user friendly OS…
That was pretty funny.
I must say that for me the ZX Spectrum which if my memory serves me correctly had a mammoth 48k main memory as the best.
I remember my Great Uncle loading frogger on it for me as a kid. They just don’t make games like that any more.
Sigh……
If only they GPLed BeOS 5, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. That is why I support Linux. It ain’t gonna go away. BeOS may have been a great OS, but that IP belongs to someone who doesn’t want to do anything with it. I say fine, I don’t need their IP. We’ll make our own.
Give me one good reason to support BeOS or any of its clones. Its just an unfortunate example at how capitalism hurts us all. Technology gone to waste because someone doesn’t feel like they made enough money. Too bad. At least I got Linux/BSD.
Computers and hardware constantly change. Software must keep up. If you can’t offer me a lifetime of free updates with your proprietary closed source software, so I know it will support all the hardware I will be using in the next 5/10/20/100 years. That is why I choose open source software. It meets this requirement. Show me ANY commercial package that can compete with this.
OK, here’s an example:
Why IBM cannot `opensource` their OS/2 ? Theres some Micro$oft Code in there…
Why Palm can’t `opensource` BeOS… They’ll use its concepts, desines etc. 4 there Palm OS 6…
GO 2 Palm and say: Hey, give us BeOS, we know u paid 4 it 10.000000 $ (az i remember), but lets GPL it…
Why Zeta isn’t open source?
They Lisenced some ORIGINAL BeOS codes… There’s some Palm/Be.inc. Code in there…
Soo the only way 2 make BeOS `opensorse` iz 2 rewrite it!!!
PS: I’ll by a “Zeta” Deluxe BOX when it’ll be ready And download OSBOS and compare em
Osbos’ [OPEN]BFS will be faster couse Zeta still uses ORIGINAL BFS unless they redesine it….
However it isn’t nearly as complete as BeOS. He didn’t do the kernel from scratch, the file system from scratch, the GUI from scratch, etc. And I’ll bet you that Syllable is not nearly as complete as BeOS R5.
syllable is based on atheos, and unless im mistaken, atheos’s core was a one man show.
I like BeOS as much as the next man. But, constant articles on BeOS are getting a little tiring. My enthusiasm for RiscOS is even higher, yet I wouldn’t want to see every other submission be an article about RiscOS.
AFAIK, BeOS, the PPC version, is on the same CD with the x86 version.
You may find it yet at softline.fr for 12 euros. They ship it, but it is very expensive.
why would anyone want to use BeOS? seems just be another way to BeDifferent…. If i see some apps come around, AKA compatibility with linux and gtk then ill definately give it a try. But until then wtmfp?
Because a lot of people *HATE* both “Unixes & clones” and Window$
😛
I was a big proponent of BeOS back when it was still PPC-only, and I spent a lot of time evangelizing it to others. I was sure that everyone would see the superiority of the OS, and developers would jump on board and soon I would be running a full suite of Adobe apps, etc. on BeOS. Yeah, right. Although I still have my copy of “The BeOS Bible” by Scott Hacker (once it’s biggest cheerleader, now using MacOS X), and still read articles regarding the various “keep BeOS alive” projects here and elsewhere, I would have to say that BeOS has gone the way of the Amiga–a great ahead-of-it’s-time OS that has all but died except for the diehards. (Although supposedly Amiga is also making a comeback.) I’m not a programmer or developer, just a power end-user, so without Adobe, Macromedia, and M$ apps, or at least compatibility with same, BeOS is merely a nice toy to play with for me. For those that are programmers/developers, what would the advantage be, realistically, of using BeOS over Linux or MacOS X? I just don’t see it happening. Let’s get over it and place our resources into the future, not living in the past or pining for what could have been.
basically, you just called me a diehard, although I use Windows (NT and 98) regularly, as well as Linux. BeOS and Windows at home, Linux and NT at work. I think I’m not infuatuated with BeOS, I am just convinced that it works and that it’s very useful.
No a Be user myself, I can still understand the draw to Be, at least from a developer’s perspective. I used to be a Windows programmer and now I am a Unix programmer, and – though Unix is a nice change from Windows – it is loaded with cruft that ensures backwards compatability going back 30+ years.
Be was a new, clean development environment. From what I have seen – which isn’t too much, but enough to form an initial opinion – the Be APIs were nice and logical.
Too bad that Be is dead.
the joy of realising what the hardware underneath was capable of with well-written software was amazing. RIP BeOS.
To ensure Success , don’t forget to ReWrite:
Microsoft Office for BE.
Yeah, we don’t care about fast boot, nice and logical API….no…we just want to finish our work and play game
.
re: Freddan303
Only two of the categories are still in the planning stages. And 6 are in Alpha or Beta stages. That sounds like progress to me. Glass half full or half empty…
re: James Frazer (In other news)
Great comparison (BeOS with Commodore 64), and not entirely inaccurate. I wonder how many BeOS users also have a couple of vintage machines laying about? My favorite is a TI99!
Good thing Microsoft never though of putting the OS in ROM! We’d be screwed then…
re: last ananymous post
Absolutely correct. Office is the standard for businesses, and therefore necessary for home users to be compatible. Perhaps OpenOffice could be ported?
Best Wishes,
Bob
Does anyone know where I can buy an old BeBox from the place? I tried posted in the BeOS forum, but not really get the good answer.
Read http://www.begroovy.com or http://www.beosjournal.org – they usually post it when there’s a BeBox on Ebay. However, it’s a very rare event, and BeBoxen are selling for more and more money, it seems. When Be went bust, priceso of BeBoxen retreated a bit, because suddenly there were more on the market, but they picked up shortly after.
other sites to keep an eye on would be totallybe.com and lebuzz.com.
I really like BeOS too; I ran it on PowerPC and later Intel hardware. But Jean-Louis blew it big time because he didn’t know how to run a company. He came close to destroying Apple, and did ruin Be. I switched to Mac OS X in 2000 and haven’t looked back. BeOS is dead. Time to move on.
These projects are making impressive headway. A legal ‘R6’-like BeOS named Zeta from yellowTAB will be making a public RC1 appearance very shortly.
This will help bridge gaps for other distros with more ambitious goals, such as OpenBeOS or B.E.OS. The BeOS community is well into the thousands by my estimates (at least as of September when I did a poll of PhOS users via in-built mechanisms.. I receieved 5000-ish responses-duplicated not possible).
Thing is, we have no way to really advertise or market Zeta at this time, we must wait until we can get the product in a near-final stage (very soon, we are at Beta3) and then the reviewers get copies. Eugenia would have received one too, but as far as how that will work out after her publicly disgracing comments, I do not know.
BeOS is slowly making a come back, you can feel the life in the BeShare servers boasting many many more numbers now than at any time when Be, INC was still around. Just look at how much money was raised to buy the BeOS Gobe Productive 3 source code! We hit $10,000 in a mere 3 days!
All in all, this next year is going to be awesome!
Having set up my main lame 600MHz machine to multiboot Win9x, Win2K, Mandrake 9 & BeOS, (QNX RTP will be next) I spend a similar amount of time in the latter 3 and find they each have their merits and faults that keeps me multi booting.
Windows 2K is just a hard habit to break because its got all the apps I want. VC++ MFC was great to develop with but it now seems time to move on. Pet peeve is that mp3/ogg files glitch badly during dialup / disconnect when they are starved of CPU cycles. Even though Lucent Win modems are controller based, the’re crappy drivers rob the CPU 100%.
Linux is rock solid and has made great strides in many ways. Its fun to explore all the alternate desktops environments and the huge wealth of apps. Even KDE is not too sluggish for me, however the mp3/ogg playback is unacceptabley glitchy especially when just moving windows & UI widgets. Linux distros are a configurators dream, you can have it any way you like.
BeOS is also rock solid and really lives up to its media OS claim. It still takes my breathe away when I demo it playing multiple mpegs in large overlapping windows plus multiple ogg/mp3 streams with no audio glitches, all while dialing that Winmodem and dragging windows around. BeOS makes my lame & lamer PCs rock but for the chronic app shortage. The posix compliant shell is much appreciated. The file Tracker has nice plugin expandability but its one pane view makes it harder to learn an unfamiliar folder hierarchy, so I prefer the Explorer & Konquerer browsers with separate panes for the folder tree view and file view. Kudos to DarkWyrm for picking up development of the Pioneer explorer now called Seeker. It is improving rapidly and its a must have app.
BeOS like Linux is probably much better appreciated outside of the US even though it’s much less internationalised. Much of the world can & does make good use of older PCs and SW developers are plentiful in many countries.
The Linux community is generally consistant about the importance of choice, and OSS / Linux developers enjoy the kudos of contributing code. With the BeOS becoming OSS, I would not be suprised if a small number of OSS / Linux developers become interested in developing for the OBOS variants for curiousity, diversity and that same kudos. Even if OpenBeOS just remains a marginal OS, it still provides another vital OS choice that is much different to anything else and has no inclination to mimic Win98,XP (ignoring that sneaked in window decoration mode BeOS / Mac / Amiga / Win98).
On the subject of boot times, my ranking is Win95, BeOS, WinME, then Linux (4X Win95), and eventually Win2K (6x Win95 when its not discovering HW changes or 10-20x if discovering changes). Actual measurements are too embarrassing compared to current PCs.
OT 1) For those who tried a BeOS install that froze during bootup and want to try evaluating it again, did you know about the safe mode ?. Just as the BIOS gets done with POST, hit the space bar quickly before it has a chance to show the intro purple graphic logo screen. Pick safe mode options, then check relevant boxes. I’ve only ever checked “Don’t call BIOS” and “Use fail-safe video mode” after changing a video card.
OT 2) If you are interested in multibooting 4 or more OSs per drive then XOSL (Extended OS Loader http://www.xosl.org) is very slick, very configurable and OSS.
OK thats my 2c
Brian
For f***s sake, let it rest in peace. Please. Sure, I could have asked and paid for a stuffed version of my dead grandma to keep around, but that is simply disrespectful and selfish. I’d rather have a good memory of something than beating pointlessly on an already dead body. It will only move a few inches because I hit it very hard. Very hard that is…
I can understand people’s mistrust of any new BeOS project as so many promises have been broken. But to totally dismiss an alternative operating system, because it doesn’t have the backing of a corporation full of engineers and poor marketing staff is insane. Why do you even frequent OSNews, to hear about Windows Longhorn betas?
If you don’t like BeOS or you have grown tired of broken promises, then don’t use it and don’t read about. But to rail on it because it is not as hip as Linux or doesn’t have the support of corporation is stupid.
I welcome any progress from BeUnited, OpenBeOS, Yellowtab, all the developers and BeOS enthusiasts out there. So what if it is never the number #1 desktop solution. If someone enjoys creating and using the product or can make a profit from it, all the more power to them.
Remember Tucker’s Car back in the day? It too was ahead of it’s time, and was kept down by the man.. I guess BEOS went the same way.
“and his laptop was working very well”
Bull. It’s crap like this that makes people not listen to BeOS fans. The BeOS never had power management for laptops. It was publicly stated many times by Be that they were not focusing on laptops. My HP laptop, running WinXP, had all sorts of power management features that BeOS fans can only dream about. And don’t even get me started on wireless support. So yeah, laptops can work “very well” if you conveniently ignore two of the essential features of modern laptops (I won’t even get into things like display management, CPU speed reduction, and so on). The fact is that there are a lot of details in a complete modern OS, and fans seem to overlook them as necessary. What favor are you doing potential users by lying to them?
“Give me one good reason to support BeOS or any of its clones. Its just an unfortunate example at how capitalism hurts us all.”
It’s because of Capitalism that you had BeOS in the first place. And also that you have Linux and BSD, too (those computers they used when programming the systems weren’t built by volunteers, you know). This is certainly not the place for a political argument, but I strongly suggest you do some serious reading/research on the subject of capitalism, socialism, and other systems.
Every time someone posts about the BeOS it’s the same old thing. “It’s dead! It’s not dead; the clones are making impressive progress! I don’t see that progress! Well, what do you care about what they do with their time?” I’ll tell you why we care. Because the BeOS fans simply won’t shut up about their system. On every post about a different OS, some BeOS fan has to say, “ha, my OS did all that back in 99!” or some such remark. It gets pretty annoying, and even more so when no real progress has been demonstrated in years (guys, R5 was just about two years ago, not “about a year”).
Look, I used the BeOS for many years (before most people here, I would wager), I’m friends with some former Be employees, and I was fairly involved in the old community. I know enough to know that half of what’s said are lies; or, at best, truths stretched far beyond their capacity. The BeOS never played videos well (nearest neighbor doubling as opposed to hardware overlay, for one). Almost no computers will be able to run it fully; something won’t work. It might be the printer, maybe the modem, possibly the network card or CompactFlash reader. Something. But you don’t hear about that. And most importantly in this day and age, it’s an extremely mediocre platform for the internet. Just compare BeZilla to IE or Mozilla on WinXP; there’s a world of difference. I could go on and on, but I think you see my point. We BeOS fans have been lied to for years, by Be, by our own hopes, and by countless groups who found it easier to put up a webpage and a hopeful mission statement than to actually make anything (Be3D? BeDTP? Unreal Tournament? Neverwinter Nights? Black & White? Opera [good version]? Gimmick? etc. etc.) It’s a great system, but lying about its faults (or conveniently omitting them, as often happens, helps no one).
And let’s face it; groups like OpenBeOS have a daunting task. From the engineers I’ve talked to, Dominic spent two years designing and implementing BFS. It’s taken OpenBeOS a little under a year now, and they’re almost done. And, I might note, they seem to be one of the most active teams within OpenBeOS. You do the math. It’s going to be a long time, if ever. And if that day comes, great! Until then, I urge the fans to dispense with the statements of granduer. It might be all well and good to litter these forums with “you’ll see,” but I’ll remind you that the last time that happened was when H-Kon misinterpreted a typo in a readme file.
So I have a favor to ask of all BeOS fans: I think the majority of us who read this site would be more than happy to let you do your own thing if you just do it without constantly talking about how other OSes are so old and crappy, and how the new BeOS release that’s right around the corner is going to rule the world. It’s irritating, and it’s prevalent. That’s a bad combination. If and when the new BeOS releases are ready, and if they’re worthy of recognition, they will certainly get it here. Until then, stop with the grandeur and adopt a more objective view of the competitors; to see them as your potential customers will see them–that is, objectively, and without predisposition–will only do you good.
Someone said :
“Give me one good reason to support BeOS or any of its clones. Its just an unfortunate example at how capitalism hurts us all. Technology gone to waste because someone doesn’t feel like they made enough money. Too bad. At least I got Linux/BSD.
”
When Unix appears in the beginning of the 70ies, it wasn’t open source at all. in fact, what OpenBeOS does today seems to me like NetBSD, FreeBSD and other *nix clones did with HP, Sun and other proprietary unix OS.
Sure, BeOS was a nice OS and has sparked offshoot groups to try and ‘clone’ it… Even if someone finally does one day clone BeOS completly I believe it will be too little, too late, and besides.. What practicle benefits are there to run a new BeOS, and why would people switch from Win32?, even Be Inc. tried giving BeOS away to get a good sized userbase and failed, I just don’t see the logic in this at all… It’s like trying to clone OS/2 which possibly has alot more apps then BeOS does, it’s just not practicle… Maybe people should stop trying to reinvent wheels and just come up with a new style of wheel completly
Maybe people should stop trying to reinvent wheels and just come up with a new style of wheel completly
——–
If operating sytems were wheels, BeOS would be wings.
BeOS Was never about ruiling the world it is/was marketed towords Geeks and Multi/media enthusiests
As Projects Linux and BeOS are about the same age, both were started in 1990/91, and with Be’s small team of engineers and user base the fact that BeOS the level with the Open Source behemoth that is Linux
is somthing extrodinary. Linux started as a hobby OS based upon
somthing that already existed. Linux used all the GNU stuff
avalible at the time to quickly complete an OS. BeOS started from
the ground up for a Platform that was never intended to be Intel.
Running a alternate OS should not be a flavor or whats cool of the month kinda deal its what gets the job done effciently that counts.
I run BeOS because it runs well boots fast prints web browses
views my email, I like the Gui my hardware works, I have all the
tools to do any office or multimedia job Burn CD’s download from my camera. I need and it runs without a hicup no slowdown nothing that indicates i will need a new computer in the next 6 months.
Let me recap, BeOS Runs fast on my computer, it was easy to install.
i had no problems getting my hardware to run. It does every thing i need to do, and it does it quickly and requires almost no maintnece.
Is there is somthing in BeOS you don’t find to your likeing
or specifications? By all means the API is there, the opensource
projects are there. It’s up to you nobody is out there to hand
feed you.
Why buy another computer, when the one you already own
can do anything you need. it is a waste of money, a waste
of Landfill, completely stupid.
If you switched from BeOS, because it suddenly became
uncool, even though BeOS did what it needed to then you should
be using Windows and not an alternate OS.
Use what you need, if you need heavy graphics get your self a SGI
machine and use Irix, if you want to play games get a Gamecube.
if you like eyecandy and have money to burn get Mac OS/X
In my experience. Linux was slow to boot, hard to configure, bloated, the multiple partitions needed for swap and data are a real pain in the ass. Open Office is slow and takes up to much hard disk. The Login is really unnessesary, having to log into root to change somthing is really anoying.
People in OS news forms talk about how BeOS does not have any killer apps. Show me the apps they say. The basic definition of a Killer app. Somthing that acomplishes a chore quickly so you can move on with your life. The definition of each word provides a context to
the above statement:
Killer: Having impressive or effective power or impact
app: A computer application.
any software you use to do what you need to do quickly, is defined
as a killer app.
Rajan because i know your standard reply to everything I post in here Im a zealot a fanatically commited person dedicated to BeOS.
Don’t look at open source alternatives only. Consider the closed source ones too like Zeta but if I am not mistaken Zeta is not fully closed source. Only the Palm components licensed by Palm are closed source and they intend to replace those parts with open source equivelents as they become avaialble. I am not sure if that is right but I remember readding it and for some reason I can’t find the link. It is in http://www.yellowtab.com
>>Nowadays, all you hear about is Windows, MacOS X, or GNU/Linux. However, what ever happened to the good old BeOS?
It died
OpenBeOS and similar projects are nothing but bad jokes. It’s like ReactOS (http://www.reactos.com). They are working for years and what do they have? Nothing to speak off. Writing a modern desktop/general-purpose operating system is such a huge task that it is by far out of reach for a group of a few dozens of students and bored geeks. The only hope for an alternative to Windows is Linux because while it’s still mostly a cheap bastard’s server OS and a geek toy it has much of the core stuff any OS needs ready and now cooperations pump in a lot of money to turn it into an OS that is attractive to a broader audience. Dozens of professional programmers are payed to work full-time on Linux and Linux-based solutions now because a lot of cooperations had to realize that Microsoft will kill any competition in the field of computing sooner or later. Sun and IBM know it. They are an endangered species in a Windows-only world. But make no mistake there are no resources left. Everything will concentrate on Linux the other OSes will never be more than hobby projects without any real use. It takes decades, over 10,000 hackers and billions of cooperate money to create what we call an OS today. Zero chance.
The only hope for an alternative to Windows is Linux
No, Zeta is progressing extremely good.
Check out their screen shots: http://www.yellowtab.com/screenshots.php
They are doing a great job. I see a real hope in YellowTab.
You’re true, but don’t forget that your beOS is not optimised for the new cpu. Nothing was really done for 2 years on BeOS. Comparing BeOS to linux, windowsXP or mac os X isn’t really fair today.
It is fair. the article touts a comeback of BeOS, so the aforementioned other OS’es *are* the competition and BeOS in whatever incarnation has to live up to what the others offer and has to be compared to those OS’es.
Life ain’t fair, deal with it.
Some very good comments here, mostly the longer ones.
I use BeOS coz I don’t want to be an MS/DCMA POW, I don’t have the $ for Apple, & I don’t have the time for endless Linux distros.
From time to time I do boot into W2K (my absolutley last MS OS), MacOS 8.1 (on Basilisk2, thanks for the memories), & RH to see whats up, but none of them keeps me wanting to stay. I have probably spent as much $ on Linux packages as W2K, so Linux is hardly cheap in $ or hrs.
When you use computers for 20 odd years, you eventually tire of never ending faddish upgrades that don’t always give as much back as you lose. If BeOS doesn’t radically change for a few yrs, fine by me.
Every few years, Apple screwed me over by forcing me to replace most all my apps, eventually I lost complete interest in Mac fads of the day. And the endless wait for stability, yeck, it took Apple 18yrs to get to a stable system.
MS was sweet for many yrs when I was using NT4,5 & most everyone else was on the 16bit crap, now its all about eye candy and control. But some of the apps are very good, no doubt about that. If W2K could be made to look & feel more like BeOS, I might just accept that, but I won’t go to XP registration.
Linux will always be a part of my professional life since someone else will set it up, but I would rather leave it behind, when I go home.
BeOS gives me just enough style, power cmd line, and stability. I will wait and see about Zeta, OBOS.
I could go on but….
I like the multitasking performance I get under Linux (Windows multitasking is a joke), it’s really smooth but can’t compare to BeOS, not even close. BeOS did have some REALLY strong points among all it’s other less developed stuff, I hope the clones are able to replicate the good stuff and enhance the poor stuff and you’ll have yourself a kickass OS.
I use BeOS5 on a daily basis,and like someone else here said, it does the job for me…I use it for media creation(nothing works better with sound)E-mail,(so far nobody has bothered to write a BeOS virus)internet(who gives a rats ass about java and such).I have hundreds of games for it (native,SDL,and emulated)and even without hardware graphics support most run absolutely great. I can do word processing,IRC,file sharing,some simple graphics work(although Windoze is my platform of choice for this, only because the BeOS apps aren’t as sophisticated)and the beauty of all this is the simpicity of installing software,just unzip it and it will run anywhere or open a package and it installs itself!Try this in Linux or BSD, Don’t make me laugh!The OS is small crisp and easy to navigate around in and any compatable hardware just works right away,no drivers to load and such.
This is the vision of home computing as it should be,something a person can use without being a rocket scientist,or a computer science major! and my hats off to anyone or group that is trying to keep it alive! Oh and BTW the box i do this on is an old 400 Celeron Pionex and hopefully by the time it finally craps out the new OBOS will be finished with support for more modern stuff,because I have no intention of giving up BeOS as long as I can find hardware that runs it.It is the only OS that’s even easier to work with than Windows or MacOS!!
adam and other people that don’t understand.
We understand perfectly fine 🙂
BeOS Was never about ruiling the world it is/was marketed towords Geeks and Multi/media enthusiests
No one said to be successful, BeOS had to be marketed to conquer the whole world. Besides, it seems geeks and multimedia enthusiests weren’t all that profitable after all…
As for multimedia – does BeOS do professional audio editing – no, but it has SoundPlay that plays audio fine. Does BeOS do professional image editing (Photoshop) – no, but it does open a lot of image files. Does BeOS do professional video editing? no, again, but it can play 10 (IIRC) Quicktime movies at a same time. Does BeOS do professional 3D editing? – no, they don’t even have proper OpenGL support.
So much for the multimedia market.
As Projects Linux and BeOS are about the same age
Actually, BeOS is about two to three years older than Linux. Plus, in the early years of Linux, there weren’t much interest in it, unlike now.
Let me recap, BeOS Runs fast on my computer, it was easy to install.
i had no problems getting my hardware to run. It does every thing i need to do, and it does it quickly and requires almost no maintnece.
Great! You form a minority. BeOS couldn’t even support a old RealTek NIC card for crying out loud (at least on my machine). Boots fast? So what? I don’t mind taking a minute to boot when I can do more with the OS. That’s a similar sentiment with other people I know.
Why buy another computer, when the one you already own
can do anything you need.
I want to get a new computer because I find my Duron insufficient in compiling with GCC 3.2 (I’m not really the patient kind of guy. Would BeOS make compiling faster? Another thing I do a lot is play around with Photoshop on Windows, and I wish those filters work faster. Would they be faster on BeOS? In both cases , I doubt it.
If you switched from BeOS, because it suddenly became
uncool, even though BeOS did what it needed to then you should
be using Windows and not an alternate OS.
BeOS can do what I need perfectly fine. But then I have to deal with either a browser that support less pages than Netscape 1.0, or use a browser that is less stable than a hungry agitated rodeo bull. Then there is not good image editing program. So even though I could survive with BeOS< like many others, I much rather just stick with Windows and do a lot more. After all, what’s the point of having a quite boot up when you don’t have anything to do after it?
Use what you need, if you need heavy graphics get your self a SGI
machine and use Irix, if you want to play games get a Gamecube.
I’m not into PC games, but my younger brother in really into games. Sure, he would call me a saint if I got him a XBOX (oh no, I mustn’t, it is from M$!) or a PS2 (he isn’t really into Nintendo stuff), but he doubts it would replace the PC. PC gaming is very different from console gaming, and if you think otherwise, certainly you are not a gamer.
In my experience. Linux was slow to boot, hard to configure, bloated, the multiple partitions needed for swap and data are a real pain in the ass.
1) Actually, it can be fast to boot, however none of the major distributions are fast to boot. After a great deal of configuring, I manage to get a clean 20 second boot time, faster than Windows XP.
2) Yeah, it can be hard configuring sometimes, but in my experience, distributions like SuSE, Mandrake, Red Hat, Lycoris, perhaps Xandros and Lindows.com (never tried both on my machine, can’t say), it is pretty easy to do basic configuring. The biggest problem with configuration is with uncommon hardware – but that’s a problem with BeOS anyway (at least there is some hope that you may get it to work on Linux).
May not be as easy to configure as Be OS (couldn’t say, never used either side configuration tools in a long long time), but sufficient.
Open Office is slow and takes up to much hard disk.
Of course, if you are comparing with the only office suite on BeOS (to my knowlegde), KOffice is pretty much as feature-heavy (or light 🙂 as gobeProductive 2.0. And faster to load up (comparing with a evaluation copy of productive 2.0 and a out-of-the-box version of KOffice on Mandrake). Takes a wee more harddisk space, but I doubt you would notice the difference.
The Login is really unnessesary, having to log into root to change somthing is really anoying.
Use Lindows. For me, and a lot of people, login is very very useful. I don’t want my brothers to mess up my files, read my mail, or things of that sort. As for root, it would guarentee that my 7-year-old brother wouldn’t configure stuff that may be hard to revert later (e.g. fixing the resolution at something the monitor can’t accept).
Besides, for Mandrake at least, when you install it, you can opt-in for a chance to have an account automatically log in upon boot time, and everytime you need the root password (e.g. installing a new RPM), it would prompt you for it.
People in OS news forms talk about how BeOS does not have any killer apps. Show me the apps they say. The basic definition of a Killer app.
Lotus 1-2-3 was an example of a killer app that made PC’s day. People *need* it, and can’t live without it after using it. In BeOS, except for a small unprofitable minority, there isn’t a killer app.
For me, Linux’s killer “app” is the fact I can configure and optimize everything the way I want it. Why? Because I like doing it.
Rajan because i know your standard reply to everything I post in here Im a zealot a fanatically commited person dedicated to BeOS.
Well, sorry to say, I’m a Linux zealot too. But I’m not blind in that regard. Be Inc. made great software, no doubt. But they weren’t at all good at marketing. It doesn’t matter how good the product is, with terrible (or in this case, practically no) marketing, the product is doom.
Marketing is a combination of PR, strategy and advertising. Knock one out, and it is no longer marketing. Marketing starts at the product’s drawing board, not after.
BeOS is a remarkable OS, sadly I have absolutely no use for it. I had this XP laptop here running for 2 weeks, my Windows 2000 desktop accross the room has been on for more than a week, and my Linux machine is currently off, but I just offed it after 3 weeks (not enough power outlets :-). I don’t need fast boot up times. That’s about the only thing nice about BeOS.
Though matter how good Zeta would be, Linux is bound to be the second-biggest player in the market, and would be the only major rival with Microsoft. From what I have seen from the outside (interviews, their website), YellowTab has a business/marketing philosophy similar to Be Inc. Meaning, it probably is bound to doom. But I guess we wouldn’t know until they are dead (then only can one study what went wrong).
I pretty much agree with brakes anaysis of the situation. But, we can have fun though. If Zeta actually comes out and is usable, we can really have a good time time playing with it. Like someone said, this is OS News – let’s enjoy and indulge ourselves. There is no need to defend our particular favorite OS as if it were a matter of life or death.
Actually, if you try the new latency patch for the Linux kernel (coming right to you in the next major distro release), multitasking is eons away fro BeOS. And with Windows XP, multitasking is NOT a joke. The only apps I see that suffer from it is apps that was made for Windows 9x.
Actually, if you try the new latency patch for the Linux kernel (coming right to you in the next major distro release), multitasking is eons away fro BeOS. And with Windows XP, multitasking is NOT a joke. The only apps I see that suffer from it is apps that was made for Windows 9x.
———
Thank u Rajan, for the comedy. Nothing comes close to multitasking on BeOS, and Windows is terrible, but if Linux with ‘latency patch’ is as good as you say, I’d sure love some second opinions with people who have actually used BeOS for more than a day and have tried this Linux patch.
RAJAN!
I’ve been watching your replies on this OSNews forum for quite a while now. I’ve newer botherered to answer your SILLY comments though..I have ONLY a few words to say about you and your TRASHY LINUX. —> Why dont you go recompile you kernel and come back in a year or two.
Linux SUX, i’ve tried it at LEAST 10 times, its STILL bloated and slow.
Yours
BeOS user since 1996
I have been a regular here, why should I leave? Especially since I don’t recompile my kernel all that often (only twice, actually), it is other parts I have recompiled (KDE and QT being the most).
As for Linux being bloated, Linux can fit onto a small tiny footprint, or can take gigabytes and gigabytes of storage. Sad to say that most desktop (meaning easy to use) distributions are bloated.
As for slow, Linux is many ways is faster than BeOS, you think BeOS is faster than Linux for one reason only – because its UI is responsive. And the responsiveness of the UI have been improving a lot in the past one year, and set to improve even more in the future. Since I’m on the bleeding egde, I can safely say that Linux for the consumer wouldn’t be as slow as it is today in the near future.
Besides, when was your last try with Linux?
I’m not saying Linux is perfect, because if you have been noticing me for a long time, you would know that I think otherwise. However, I don’t agree that BeOS is better than Linux. There is one or two areas where BeOS shines, but I’m not going to drop what I have and sacrifice just to have them, especially when they are coming to Linux soon. like UI responsiveness.
If you use and like Be OS, be my guess, USE IT. But if you notice my message, it is mostly on Be being bad in marketing and how it shows in their products.
Thank u Rajan, for the comedy. Nothing comes close to multitasking on BeOS, and Windows is terrible, but if Linux with ‘latency patch’ is as good as you say, I’d sure love some second opinions with people who have actually used BeOS for more than a day and have tried this Linux patch.
I have use Be OS far more than a day. My 120mhz Pentium with 32mb of RAM is now a MP3 jukebox with BeOS 5 Personal Edition (installed on Windows 98). I also have BeOS installed on Windows Me on my Duron (which my Linux installations are), and again, I don’t see how BeOS multitasking is better.
You feel BeOS multitasking is better because BeOS applications feel responsive. This is because the way the UI is built, not the system. Besides, since you are so smart, have you tried that patch? I’m sure the answer is no (IIRC, there is Mandrake RPMs with that patch, for those who can’t take recompiling the kernel).
Comments from Be Users like “Linux suxs!!”, or “Linux is bloated!” make Be users look single minded and stubborn. I have used BeOS, yes I like it, but I can’t be bothered with it anymore. Yes these new projects have potential, but I wish I could smack the morons who go on about how great these clones are gonna be! I mean they haven’t been released, and there is so little documentation about them, it’s hard to know why they would be great in the first place.
If you are able to run BeOS on your own home computer with no problems, I respect your decision, and am glad to see you’ve actually made a decision about the OS you use. But you must face the fact that, BeOS is not amazing, spectacular or ground breaking anymore. And it would be misleading to tell people this.
It surprises me that the OSS community can’t put their heads together, make some standards, work with each other share ideas, and make computing better for all. That way whoever packages/integrates an idea the best wins. And all the bickering between projects would stop. The whole OSS community pretty much has the same goal, so why make borders and burn bridges? It only makes it easier for outside competition to pick apart the brittle pieces.
TO RAJAN:
I tried Linux 5-6 months ago. Slackware actually
You HAVE to be joking. Linux is ULTRAslow compared to BeOS.
– Booting
– unpacking stuff
– starting applications
– browsing ANYTHING on the desktop with a “explorer clone”
– MULTITASKING (linux doesnt even know what this is)
– startx
I could go on.. but why bother..
OK, Rajan, i’ll try linux AGAIN. What distro and what patches ???
Yours
BeOS user since 1996
I run 2.5.53 kernel on a fairly bleeding edge ~branch gentoo system, and everything is compiled to perfection especially for my system, and while it’s true that comparing XFree and BeOS UI responsivness is like comparing street mopeds with formula 1 cars, I still have to say that BeOS multitasking was something in a class of it’s own.
It was after all built from ground up to be a low latency media OS, Linux is good and perhaps a heavily tweaked and altered linux kernel could match it, but I doubt it…
Finally, an honest Linux user
Thanx for beeing honest, most people have a hard time admitting their OS is lacking in certain areas.
Rajan: IF Nick S. can do it, you can 🙂
Hi,
there is also a huge download site for German speaking BeOS fans available:
http://bezip.de
Ciao,
Sebastian
Thank u Rajan, for the comedy. Nothing comes close to multitasking on BeOS, and Windows is terrible, but if Linux with ‘latency patch’ is as good as you say, I’d sure love some second opinions with people who have actually used BeOS for more than a day and have tried this Linux patch.
The reason BeOS failed so misserably in the market place is that it took multithreading to the extreme. Some might argue this is still cool, but history has shown that forcing multithreading down developers throat isn’t the way to go.
And FYI, the low latenchy patches are great!
BTW, if you’re so hung up on BeOS, are you interested in purchasing a mint condition BeBox 133? BeOS PPC runs great on it! Boots in 6 seconds (faster than Intel! custom BIOS!). I must warn you though, there are even less applications for PPC than x86, but that shouldn’t stop a true BeOS zealot, right?
I’m selling the BeBox because Linux PPC is just too slow (stuck at kernel 2.0.32). Unless someone can give any hints on installing NetBSD?!!
-fooks
While reading all these posts, its really sad to hear people dissing BeOS. I it doesnt work for you, then fine, either program your own drivers or give up, downt complain on forums. BeOS does wonderfully everything that it was meant to be, and that was to play media, be super fast and stable, and fun to use. It was WAY ahead for its time, not that most of its features have been copied (blatantly) by mac or windows, most people dont really like it. I recently popped in my friends divx of 13 ghosts in it and boom, it played, smoothly and evenly on my 500mhz celeron laptop (IBM thinkpad A20m). I then rebooted, and played it in windows XP, the audio was about a minute behind the video after just 5 minutes. Browsing the internet, while it took me a while to set up, was wonderfull. Mozilla is about 50 times faster. Thats what I use BeOS for, to watch movies and play music, to surf and to work on some coding. Just some opinions, no im not lying about anything, i just think its ridiculous to beat on a one year *dead* operating system as though some 50 hardcore hackers are trying to bring it back. LOTS of people use it, LOTS of people develop for it, and it just works, unlike microshaft windoze.
“It was WAY ahead for its time”
This term always pisses me off, nothing is way ahead of its time. The term doesn’t make sense, it’s a comment used to over glorify something. It’s like a paradox used to exxagerate the truth.
Multi-threading wasn’t advanced when BeOS came out, it was a highly unimplemented piece of technology. BeOS is great I’ll admit that because I used it for the longest time, and even owned a BeBox133. But we need to face the fact that UI responsiveness and Media capabilities were the optimized parts of that OS. It’s hard to do real number crunching, hard drive access was journaled but it didn’t have the most amazing transfer rates.
>>>>I recently popped in my friends divx of 13 ghosts in it and boom, it played, smoothly and evenly on my 500mhz celeron laptop (IBM thinkpad A20m). I then rebooted, and played it in windows XP, the audio was about a minute behind the video after just 5 minutes.
That’s divx’s problem, not XP’s. Have you tried ffdshow, it’s a much faster divx codec than the official divx.com codec?
As for slow, Linux is many ways is faster than BeOS
Oh come on man! Give me a break. Rajan, your replies and comments are always wise but this particular one doesn’t make any sense.
As for slow, Linux is many ways is faster than BeOS
Linux faster? Nooo wayyy! Please tell me you were kidding.
BeOS is DEFINATELY faster then Linux. Loading times, app response everything is faster, way faster.
I’ve tried both operating systems.
“Pull man! Pull! I think you’ve got me!”
[The sassy mouth salmon after hooking Johnny Bravo’s pants to to Johnny Bravo’s fishing line]
😛
Hey, how much are you selling this BeBox? Have you tried check this link for NetBSD on BeBox? -> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/bebox/
Okay, BeOS is supposed to be this exceptional multimedia OS. I admit I have used it very little and have researched it even less. Can it play DVDs? Can it rip and encode them into Xvid MPEG-4 ogm streams? What video codecs does it support? Firewire? For DV, SCSI/SBP-2, or TCP/IP? What software is available for video editting and conversion? I have content I would like to manage, let alone use. I have audio in flac, wav, mp3 and ogg formats and video in avi, mpg, mov and ogm streams with MPEG1/2/4, quicktime/sorrenson?, wmv, real media, DV and probably a couple other formats. Currently I use Linux on my network, it gets the job done nicely. But I am very open to alternatives.
I see way too many comments along the lines of “I tried linux, Be is way better!” This has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen. And no, that isn’t an insult to BeOS. I haven’t used Be (although I have been planning on trying it) but I’m sure that it does what people want well.
The reason the above comment irks me is becaue it is an IGNORANT thing to say. “I tried Linux.” Pardon? You are saying you downloaded a kernel, compiled it on your system, hand selected some middleware, device drivers, and basic apps, and compiled them on your system, and it was slow? No you say? You downloaded Redhat 8.0? Well NO FUCKING JOKE? Redhat 8.0 did not come ready made custom to your system? Makes sense to me seeing as redhat is a server solution. If you want to run linux for desktop you need to be willing to configure your system. If you pick and choose what processes you need it can be very fast. Very snappy. You can run linux on damn near anything and it is IGNORANT to call it slow. Slow is relative. If it can run on embedded systems with tiny microcontrollers I am sure your processor can handle it. However, because you are too lazy to configure it to fit you, you knock. If you don’t like configuring your own system, there are pleny of OSes from plenty of companies happy to take that problem off of your hands. However, I prefer to have complete control over what runs on my system, the way my window manager looks, etc. Yes, I am a software engineer, so maybe I am more picky with my computer than others. That is why I like linux, it lets me choose and it scales to wherever I need it.
Look, guys, I’m sitting ten feet away from a media terminal that receives the Dish TV satellite network and acts as a two-tuner PVR to boot, meaning it’s doing real-time MPEG2 encoding and decoding–even to the point of having a six-hour “buffer” for what you’re watching at the moment while it’s recording a separate channel. And it runs Linux. Yes, it’s hardware-assisted, before anyone points that out–you think a BeOS media terminal like this wouldn’t have been?
Linux is just a kernel. It’s not a slow one, either. I preferred FreeBSD when I was working with Unix, but, hey.
There’s a basic reality here people are ignoring, I think, in the argument–it’s the reality that BeOS was really fighting against to start with. The reality is called <strong>Moore’s Law</strong>. Everybody knows it, but there’s an unwritten corollary to it: Elegant software technologies only have a limited amount of time to get a foothold against dominant software technologies, because eventually the hardware will even the playing field. This is something the Amiga faced–it doesn’t matter how much wonder you squeeze out of that 50Mhz 68040, the PC world caught up through brute force, and no matter the task, when speeds hit a point where machines are waiting on users more than on their own tasks, you’re at a point of diminishing returns.
BeOS could have caught on a few years ago and established enough of a cult foothold in vertical markets to stay there even when PCs objectively caught up, much like the Macintosh did (or arguably SGIs did). User experience does count and I haven’t used an OS that I personally think has a better user “feel” than BeOS… and yes, I’ve used Windows XP and Mac OS X. (In fact, I’m using OS X now, and missing BeOS’s responsiveness less with each update.)
I code for BeOS, some of the free time I have are spent on cutting BeOS code and I just couldn’t believe how nice the API is, though.
One of the probable reason why BeOS is still dear to many coders can be attributed to the API. Its simplicity and power is truly astounding.
Good work, guys.
Just keep it going, we will eventually get there.
I’ve spoken to my lecturer in Operating Systems who is a Dr/phD in Computing Science and is a BIG fan of BeOS. I mean when a guy like that with all that knowledge about O/S says BeOS is fantastic, makes you realise how special BeOS is.
To be honest I’m happy with my BeOS on my 200Mhz 32Mb RAM 7Gb hdd, I think I’ll use it till the day I die.
Peace.
As for slow, Linux is many ways is faster than BeOS
Apart form networking, Linux is NOT faster than beos, what you mean is that linux has *BETTER DRIVERS* than beos.
And to the comment about linux having better threading than beos i can only say:
Go fork(); you!!!!!!!!
😛
i think we’re sort of comparing apples and oranges. I love BeOS with all my heart and use it at least once a day. Linux is a command line OS.. there is a window manager that runs on top of it. with BeOS its all together for the most part. I think that when people say how slow linux is, they’re talking about X… which I’ll admit is horribly slow on this K62/300, while BeOS is quite snappy. linux in commandline is fast. perhaps we should define what we’re actually talking about?
i feel like every beos article on osnews is just the same paragraph, written over and over.
still, i’m eager to buy zeta, whenever that comes out.
Now we see why Be, Inc. had to die… Be was years ahead of MS on this one, like most things Be did. Pirate Microsoft to death, people.
Ya, we get these BeOS arguments all the time but still Linux was never designed to be a fast media machine like BeOS. Unix has to be carefully tweaked to get powerful media results (Like SGI Irix or Mac OS X).
I’m a BeOS user from R3 on both PPC and Intel. I really, really love the BeOS. However, being realistic, the only real tragedy of the BeOS is not even that Be, Inc. went under (although, of course, that was a tragedy for Be employees). The real problem is not that Be isn’t Number One or is the greatest OS ever conceived of in the universe. It is just that we can’t get our hands on it. To me, that is the only problem. If we could just get access to it under a license and be able to keep it up to date, that would be enough for me. It would never be anything more than an alternative OS and only those who love it would use it and code for it. But, it really is one cool OS. It will be interesting to see what Zeta has to offer, for example. So, there is no need to argue about it. It is an OS that makes computing a joy, for both beginner and expert alike.
<em>I’ve been watching your replies on this OSNews forum for quite a while now. I’ve newer botherered to answer your SILLY comments though..I have ONLY a few words to say about you and your TRASHY LINUX. —> Why dont you go recompile you kernel and come back in a year or two.
Linux SUX, i’ve tried it at LEAST 10 times, its STILL bloated and slow.</em>
i wonder what blue eyed OS’ guillaume maillard would have to say to this. well, not really, because he’s written a number of articles about why b.e.os is using a linux kernel, and how it can be tweaked to equal or best beos in the audio latency and responsiveness games. they’re all right here in osnews.
and hey, at least you *can* recompile a kernel when you use linux/bsd. as beos is largely a microkernel affair (though BONE makes beos networking monolithic), i suppose it’s not a big issue, but i’d like that freedom, anyway.
mind you, i use beos for everything i can get away with; obsessive platform zealotry and ill-conceived mudslinging yields a net gain for no one. the sooner you realize that your computers and operating systems are tools and not lifestyles, the better off we’ll all be.
but y’know, i’ve yet to see anything rock the streaming audio server house like beos + tunetracker does in any other platform: http://radio.vietnambla.com
“It was WAY ahead for its time”
This term always pisses me off, nothing is way ahead of its time. The term doesn’t make sense, it’s a comment used to over glorify something. It’s like a paradox used to exxagerate the truth.
I agree with you. To me, “It was WAY ahead of it’s time”, is just a polite way to say “It was a complete git and a loser!”, or the verbalization of someone’s denial.
Now we see why Be, Inc. had to die… Be was years ahead of MS on this one, like most things Be did. Pirate Microsoft to death, people.
Actually, I firmly believe that piracy is what got Microsoft where they are today. Think about it. Ten years ago, if you hadn’t been able to pirate Windows and all those nice programs to run on it, would you be using Windows today?
I was a registered BeOS developer and staunchly used their last three or four releases. I purchased each new release with excitement, and I tried to encourage others to buy it as well. I even talked one of the small software companies near my house into carrying BeOS and GoBE Productive bundles.
Nonetheless, I have stopped using BeOS and developing anything for it because it is currently dead. I don’t mean that it can’t be reincarnated into OpenBeOS, Zeta, or something else, but it is not actively being maintained and updated today. It is dead today.
I still have by BeOS CDs and could install it at any moment, but with the lack of support and updates to it, I really don’t want to waste my time developing something for a stagnant OS.
I really liked BeOS, and I hope one of the BeOS clone projects does well (my preference is one of the open source clones). I would like to use BeOS again once it is maintained, updated, and looks like it might have a future.
Well, for an OS that’s “dead”, you sure get lots of raves on this board. To me, death of an OS is merely a concept. I logged remotly to a PDP-10 today, worked like a champ, new software for it and all.
You people. Some are zealots, and zeal is fine, and anti zeal is also fine. But, think about it a minute. Do you have to run to make a comment “I am a (slashdotter) admin on blah blah blah and I use windows(or linux) and I say there is no support(or no this or that, or the other).
SO? If you’re such a big kahuna, join the project somewhere and make a difference. “BeOS” was all about JLG and company saying “I’m doing it for my fans, top that BILL” He used celebrity, his careful selection of the right people, their ideas and invention/innovation that made your industry, to make a product that even STILL, to this day, is more advanced than in ways than anything you’ll ever see elsewhere. Journaling? Bleat.
The new projects is an extention of that logic. Follow the path of the phrophets, and if you don’t believe- then show us you’re as bad as you say you are.
Be Groovy
Well, for an OS that’s “dead”, you sure get lots of raves on this board
BeOS isn’t dead. The Be part might be dead but the OS part is alive and well and it’s being updated as you read this. Wait for YellowTab Zeta.
Sure there haven’t been updates foe BeOS for a while but what do you expect when a company such as Be goes broke. I look forward at YellowTab’s Zeta.
B_Whopper: I tried Linux 5-6 months ago. Slackware actually
5-6 months ago is a long time. A lot has happen between then and now (like KDE 3.1 finally stablizing and probably be out if weren’t for the @^*!% security bug). Besides, Slackware is not for the faint of heart. If you don’t want to configure you system, don’t use it. Slackware is hard to configure, and their default installation sucks (i didn’t used the latest version, but the latest version is just a updated set of packages anyway
).
B_Whopper: You HAVE to be joking. Linux is ULTRAslow compared to BeOS.
– Booting
Booting, I’ll have to admit is slower than BeOS. So you loose half a minute, maybe more. The end of the world? (One thing I notice when I tried Slackware was its boot time was rather slow compared with Mandrake with Aurora off).
B_Whopper: – unpacking stuff
Unpacking stuff as in? If compressed archives, for *.zips, *.gzips and *.bzips, Linux is way faster than BeOS in this field. Especially with bigger archives. But still I didn’t get what you mean by unpacking stuff.
B_Whopper: – starting applications
Starting KDE applications with the bleeding edge components (read: using the latest kernel, latest Qt, latest unstable KDE release candidate) on KDE is as fast as opening BeOS applications on BeOS. To my experience of course. (On a slower older machine, machines I obviously don’t use, obviously BeOS fares better. I don’t know why..)
A year, heck maybe half a year ago, starting C++ applications and running them may be slow, but now they are not all that slow.
B_Whopper: – browsing ANYTHING on the desktop with a “explorer clone”
I sure didn’t notice any difference. Sure Tracker is nice, but for “browsing”, I notice nothing different (by desktop, I think you meant browsing local drives and directories). Speaking on file browsing, I notice Linux is way faster than BeOS is transfering, copying and deleting large files.
B_Whopper: – MULTITASKING (linux doesnt even know what this is)
I once had everything stop responding (mouse, keyboard) while using SoundPlay. So much for multitasking. (Besides, have you even tried Robert Love’s patches?)
B_Whopper: OK, Rajan, i’ll try linux AGAIN. What distro and what patches ???
I suggest you hold off till 2.6 and till 4.3 stablizes. Wait approx 6 more months.
B_Whopper: Rajan: IF Nick S. can do it, you can 🙂
I’m being totally honest with you. To be frank with you, I have absolutely no reason why I should defend Linux. I loath the design of certain key parts of a overall GNU/Linux system (the kernel is fine), I loathe the license, etc.
I can’t admit to you that *multitasking* on BeOS is better than on Linux because generally it is *multithreading* that you are talking about. The amount of multithreading used in BeOS is far more than in Linux (plus GNU, KDE, Qt and XFree86). The plus side is that BeOS is incredibly responsive. The downside is that writing large apps for BeOS can and will be a pain in the arse.
Fooks: but history has shown that forcing multithreading down developers throat isn’t the way to go.
One of the few times I agree with you.
Nate: I it doesnt work for you, then fine, either program your own drivers or give up, downt complain on forums.
The reason we are complaining is that a bunch of BeOS zealots think that BeOS is God’s answer for OS, and everything else is crap.
Nate: It was WAY ahead for its time
Nothing is way ahead of its time. The best marketers are those who can *create* the need, not supply a need. Be Inc. died because it never grasped the concepts of marketing, not because BeOS was ahead of its time.
Alex (The Original): Oh come on man! Give me a break. Rajan, your replies and comments are always wise but this particular one doesn’t make any sense.
Care to tell me why my comment doesn’t make any sense? That hard disk transfers for example. Or I/O. Or networking. The list goes on and on. The only nice thing about BeOS I see is the UI.
Alex (The Original): BeOS is DEFINATELY faster then Linux. Loading times, app response everything is faster, way faster.
To the layman, BeOS definately feels faster. Looks can be decieving, however. Remember how KDE guys used to say Konqueror is faster than Nautilus 1? It was mainly how KDE loads directories. Run a benchmark, both are the same. Percieved speed is not what I’m talking here, real speed. Number-cruching speed.
Be OS shines where Be Inc. place importance in. Like how it handles media files, its media low latency (ever heard BeOS skipped a beat?), its responsiveness. Its raw speed, however, is not its advantage.
MonkeyBoy: I’ve spoken to my lecturer in Operating Systems who is a Dr/phD in Computing Science and is a BIG fan of BeOS.
I have spoken to many professors who are big fans of CP/M. DOes it mean CP/M is better than every single OS out there? Nope.
Hug0: Apart form networking, Linux is NOT faster than beos, what you mean is that linux has *BETTER DRIVERS* than beos.
Well, drivers play a part, but not a huge part. Unless you haven’t notice, Linus Torvalds ditch some pretty nice concepts like microkernels not because it was terrible from the technical perspective, but terrible in the speed prespective.
A lot of Linux is optimized for speed, the kernel, the file systems, etc. If it was networking speed I want, I would be using BSD, wouldn’t I?
Alex (The Original): BeOS isn’t dead. The Be part might be dead but the OS part is alive and well and it’s being updated as you read this. Wait for YellowTab Zeta.
The denials. Do you get security and bug fixes for BeOS 5? DO you recieve feature updates? No and no. *BeOS* is a product of *Be Inc.*. What Zeta, OBOX, B.E.OS, etc. is doing is *cloning* it. It may be compatible, it may be not. But BeOS is *dead*.
You can use BeOS, being *dead* doesn’t mean *unusable*. If it makes your day, use it. But don’t deny that it is dead.