While Eugenia has already detailed just how intricate and impressive the MPEG-LA’s efforts have been to basically set up the foundations that would allow them to sue just about everyone – their vague and unclear licenses are used in everything from DVD players to digital camcorders, and as such, it’s hard to avoid them. Many others claim that the MPEG-LA won’t ever go rogue (or this, take your pick). I think those people will be interested to know that one of the MPEG-LA’s subsidiaries, a cut-and-clear patent troll, has launched several patent infringement suits earlier this year. This patent troll’s CEO? Larry Horn – yes, the same Larry Horn who’s also CEO of the MPEG-LA.
The connection was ‘discovered’ by The Prior Art’s Joe Mullin, back in late April. The company in question is MobileMedia Ideas LLC, a company without any products of its own. It acquired a number of patents from Nokia and Sony, 122 to be exact, and is now using those patents to sue several smartphone makers earlier this year, including Apple, HTC, and Research In Motion. MobileMedia Ideas is owned by the MPEG-LA, and its CEO is Larry Horn, who also happens to be the CEO of the MPEG-LA.
MobileMedia Ideas owns patents covering “call handling, speed dial functions, database searches, audio download and playback, and still picture and video processing”, which is pretty broad when you think about it. Interestingly enough, this allows the MPEG-LA to collect money from companies like Apple, who is part of the MPEG-LA, in two different ways: through licensing fees, and by suing them through subsidiaries like this one. Of course, Apple, as a licensor, also receives money back from the MPEG-LA, but we don’t know how much that is.
The Prior Art interviewed Larry Horn about this, but the CEO doesn’t see any conflicts of interest arise from him being CEO of both the MPEG-LA as well as of the patent troll. “We’ve been threading that needle for 14 years,” he told The Prior Art, “[At MPEG-LA], we’ve run eight patent pools. Some companies are owners of patents in one pool and not in another. Some are users – licensees – in one pool, and not in another. Our mission in each pool is to proactively and vigorously license the patents to the market, on behalf of our licensors.”
“At MPEG-LA, we’ve always gone after anybody in need of a license, to offer them one,” Horn continued, “You get no favoritism just because you happen to be a licensor in one program. If somebody gives us the right to license their IP in one context, they have to expect we’re going to license someone else’s IP in another context. Our credibility is based on that.”
Mullin explains, however, that MobileMedia Ideas and the MPEG-LA are very different in structure and intent. The MPEG-LA only governs its several patent pools – it doesn’t actually own the patents in question, since ownership remains with the licensors. MobileMedia Ideas, on the other hand, is a classic patent troll, owning patents it bought from other companies, without actually having any products of its own.
Another interesting aspect is that Nokia and Sony each hold a 10% stake in the patent troll, which raises the question whether or not the company might be part of a proxy war against Apple considering the Apple vs. Nokia troubles. Horn claims the company is not part of a proxy war, since it owns its patents outright, and decides for itself what to do with them.
What this story illustrates – apart from the idiocy of the US patent system, obviously – is that despite the reassuring cuddles from Apple, Microsoft, and its supporters, the MPEG-LA is anything but afraid of playing dirty patent games. It would be one thing if the patent troll was merely owned by the MPEG-LA, but having the same CEO only makes it all the more clear.
The MPEG-LA is shackling the web (and beyond) to H264 and its patents, so that it will be able to collect royalties until the end of time, and sue anyone who dares to step out of line. Their behaviour is harming innovation, and a direct threat to the freedom of the web. MobileMedia Ideas’ patent troll behaviour is only a taste of what’s to come if we allow H264 to ruin the web even further.
You’d almost start to prefer video over Flash. Almost.
Before we get going: both. At the same time. Don’t care where. Yum
Sorry. Carry on. Just some lightheartedness for today’s smile.
You know Thom, for making our eyes bleed from exposure to a Palin picture, you’re going to The Special Hell.
The one reserved for child molesters and people who talk in theatres.
I hope that people can now see that MPEG-LA is pure evil.
Existing to ‘license’ things to people…. Sounds an awful lot like existing to charge people money for doing things they patented.
This kind of patent-trolling and blatant abuse of the system which was meant to improve innovation needs to stop.
I hope very strongly that google open-source VP8, that MPEG-LA sue them over some broad, all-enveloping patent, and that software patents are rendered null and void by a combination of that and Apple vs HTC.
It’s not MPEG-LA that’s suing – it’s one of their members. And not for patents in the MPEG-LA-managed portfolio. This article is FUD – and you play ball…
Right. The company is owned by the MPEG-LA, and headed by the SAME CEO as the MPEG-LA.
But that’s all coincidental, right?
I bet you’re also one of those irredeemable fools who believes that smoke and fire are related.
God dammit Thom, what is your problem?
It was so real,
Like I woke up in Wonderland.
All sorta terrifying
I don’t wanna be all alone
While I tell this story.
And can anyone tell me why
Y’all sound like Peanuts parents?
Will I ever be coming down?
This is so real
Finally, it’s my lucky day
See, my heart is racing
‘Cause this shit never happens to me
-Tool, Rosetta Stoned
This is how I feel nowdays visiting OSNews, it’s like Area 51 with Coffee shop. Excuse while I put diapers and fix my tin foil hat.
What does the last line’s crack about Flash video mean?
Flash video is mostly moving towards H.264, and anything that uses that codec via Flash faces the exact same issues.
To be precise Adobe are paying these guys already to distribute Flash, and if in 5 years they charge for web streaming it will apply regardless of if the video is watched via Flash or native in HTML5.
We’ve only been discussing this to death, you’d think we’d have mastered these subtle technical distinctions by now.
Plus, we shouldn’t be annoying Adobe on this particular issue. By getting them to adopt VP8 (or if desperate using the already deployed VP6) they have the ability to decide this codec shenanigans in favour of royalty-free codecs if they want to. We’ll need to serve something to the poor souls running IE6-8 and I’d rather not have multiple files if it’s not necessary.
I meant it like this: you’d almost long for the days before this HTML5 video discussion.
“serve something to the poor souls running IE6-8”
Why, not providing easy Youporn viewing will motivate them to upgrade to IE9.. MS has less IE6~8 to support and they push users forward to the current IE version (well, users that don’t move to a better and more open browser).
With flash, you can use whatever codec is installed on the computer. That’s an advantage over HTML5 (but that’s not comparable: one is a third-party application, the other’s a standard).
Speed dial has been around for ages. Surely there must be prior-art there (unless they did something novel to it).
Most definitely. It was around before cell phones. I agree, there has to be prior art.
Where does the madness end…. I am speechless.
As someone put very well the other day; what can one expect when they keep voting lawyers into political offices. (can’t remember the exact wording)
The logic in this article is where?
It’s not because the CEO of MobileMedia Ideas is the same, that the MPEG-LA itself has any connection to it, and certainly not that if Apple gets sued and has to pay, that Apple would receive any of the money this MobileMedia Ideas company would receive from them through this legal way…
Apple, Microsoft, or any other MPEG-LA member would only receive licensing money when someone takes a license for one of the patent pools which MPEG-LA manages, which includes their patents managed by the MPEG-LA. Nobody ever said these patents MobileMedia Idea’s now sues for were ever in a pool managed by the MPEG-LA. Apple and Microsoft also have tons of patents for which they could sue any other MPEG-LA member when they would violate it.
While the MPEG-LA certainly isn’t my favorite organisation, this article is just FUD.
What are you on about? Nobody – certainly not this article – is suggesting anything like that.
I think you really need to actually READ the article. It seems like to me you didn’t read AT ALL.
Either the patents are valid or they are not. Isn’t this what people want? Basically, the primary concern now with patents in general, and MPEG-LA, is that their patent holding are FUD, that they hold their claims and threats over folks heads and through muddled statements.
Rather than saying “You may be in violation, and will need to license this”, they’re finally pulling the trigger and trying to enforce the patents. Which means they need to, in court, qualify and clarify their patent claims.
Once that’s done, other can more readily (potentially) work around their patents and achieve the same functionality.
I would expect that the patent-free codec folks would embrace a lawsuit, as that seems like the only way they can get traction as a safe alternative by surviving the process instead of living under a cloud of threats, FUD, “I say, He says”.
At least they’re going after folks who’s legal departments are mere blips on their balance sheets compared to Joe the Hacker who would need to mortgage their life.
“Hi! I’m Larry Horn.
As said in this article, at MPEG-LA, we’ve always gone after anybody in need of a license, to offer them one, because we’re nice like that.
Also, h264 is open, whereas Theora isn’t free. It would be better for you to “goodthink different”, like John Gruber does.
Also note that all iPhone apps will soon have to be coded in objective-newspeak, a new language which won’t compile if your app contains porn or political cartoons (and some other undiscosed reasons – just remember: if it doesn’t compile, it is crimecode).
Finally, by the end of 2016, MPEG-LA will rename itself the ministry of love-LA. We are currently training our agents on the model of the ones who investigated the stolen iPhone case.”
Edited 2010-05-06 18:05 UTC
Thom, you are starting to sound like Stallman.
Re: Stallman: even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Well, I restrict my freedom nonsense to the web, where it belongs. I strongly believe that the web should be accessible by anyone, with whatever device they choose, no matter how wealthy they are.
If that makes me sound like Stallman, then so be it. I’d rather be associated with a free and open web than with Apple and Microsoft anyway.
http://benward.me/blog/understand-the-web
Even Gruber linked to it.
At least you acknowledge that it is nonsense.
Thing about Stallman, I used to think he was crazy. Of late though, seeing the crap these big patent trolls and corporate types keep pulling, I’m wondering if maybe he’s not quite as crazy as I thought.
You can think Stallman crazy all you want, but when I look at who is on the other side of Stallman… I think I would rather stand with him.
I did not say Stallman was crazy. I wanted to point out how the last paragraph from Thom resembled a bit Stallman’s radical discourse.
I do know that Thom is not a radical, though; in fact, he seems to be a rather practical person, who uses Windows 7 to watch his favorite Hollywood shows.
I want to see the DoJ take on MPEG-LA and blast them until there’s nothing left but a smoking hole in the ground.
Unless the DOJ finds a way to also get payola. Patent holding companies seem to have a way to attract lots of lobbyists.
I’m getting rid of me Buggles cds. Trevor Horn can’t mess with me and get away with it 😉
Internet killed the video star…
The one thing I’d love to see is something along the lines of a law passed that if a technology becomes so critical to the economy that a small group can hold hostage millions due to patents – that the law would allow some sort of organisation to grab the patents and allow royalty free implementation of that given technology. That is about the only way one can see a balanced approach to software development, especially when one considers that h264 isn’t just a CODEC, it is a major piece of technology that permeates ever part of a persons life; from online movies to cam corders, to applications, digital television, digital music and so on. Something with such a large grip on the economy can be allowed to hold the whole economy to ransom because a noble intention has been screwed beyond belief into the current situation with patents.
-A patents is owned by all individuals who participated to its creation
-They can’t transfer its property
-Once all of them have died, the patent is released in public domain and its ideas cannot be patented anymore
Problem solved. Why didn’t we do this right the first time ?
Edited 2010-05-07 10:21 UTC
Oh we did, just like copyright. It’s just that once money gets involved, governments get involved. While either money or government involvement is no problem, both at the same time is an explosive mix.
Kind of like Martini and Amaretto, really.
When you mix politics and money you get corruption.
Just look at the lobbyists, financial markets etc.
Greece is only the start, we haven’t learned anything from the past 400 years, but that is “off topic”.
Although, . . . why not kill patent trolls, they are evil and nonhuman! Probably aliens trying to disturb our world. Let do it the french way, chop of some heads.
I thought a patent troll was someone who patented a lot of “ideas” without ever developing them into a product just to sue others.
The MPEG people got a product, and ideas/implementations which may or may not be worth protecting.