MandrakeSoft and Pearson Education sent us over a copy of their latest “pro” edition of the popular Linux Mandrake 9.0. We already wrote a review about Linux Mandrake 9.0, so this is going to be a review of the ProSuite deal specifically and what you get for $199 USD RPP (easily found for around $175 USD in the market). Update: Apparently, StarOffice 6.0 is included in its full version with the distribution. Too bad Mandrake does such a poor job and include its RPMs along with some hundreds other demos in the two Commercial CDs, without saying a word about it (or where to find it) in the “Commercial Software Guide” booklet or another really prominent place.The all blue box includes 8 CDs: 2 with the Mandrake Linux 9 OS, 1 CD with the internationalization and documentation, 2 CDs with commercial applications (demos), 1 supplementary CD with more open source applications, 1 CD with the sources and 1 CD with the IBM DB2 database, an evaluation version that works well on Mandrake Linux. Also, you will find a DVD media which includes everything, for those with DVD drives (I haven’t tried the DVD as the machine I installed Mandrake ProSuite doesn’t have a DVD drive).
Additionally, you will find a 20-page booklet/pocket guide which is the “Quick Startup Guide”. This short booklet answers some very basic questions about Mandrake, its installation and uninstallation, hardware support and in general, it is the “first step” towards installing Mandrake Linux.
Then, you will find the main manual, named “Installation and User Guide” and it is a 190-pages illustrated book. The guide describes the installation in more detail, the KDE environment (e.g. KMenu, browser, email, printing) and then it goes into detail about how to use the Mandrake Tools. The Mandrake tools description take about half of the book. At the end of the book you will find a pretty extensive troubleshooting guide and then then Index. Unfortunately, the index while being alphabetically sorted does not have letter headers to easily identify where a letter starts or stops. Moreover the Index is not as populated as it should have been.
There is also a 32-page booklet which describes the commercial software demos to be found in the two accompanied CDs. There are about 60 commercial demos included in these two CDs (includes for example Opera, Win4Lin, TheKompany demos, jBase, Turboprint, AC3D, Stuffit and more). I don’t see the point of having that booklet there other than for promotional purposes. The great majority of these are demos freely found on the web for example.
As for the additional x86 application CD, includes RPMs most easily found on the /contrib folder on the Mandrake FTP or on rpmfind: Abiword, loads of perl scripts, Afterstep, Apache2…
The ProSuite Edition is effectively the Download Edition but with the Server installation CDs, plus a few more CDs with freely available software, a manual, and 90 days of installation web support. It includes phone support for 5 incidents valid 60 days, but again, only for the instrallation part.
And this is where exactly my problem lies. It is just not enough to only support the installation. I mean, it is not 1995 anymore and the Linux installation methods are not as arcane as they used to be. I wrote the exact same thing about our review of Red Hat 8.0 Professional boxset review a month ago. Throwing a zillion packages on some CDs (and some are untested or don’t work properly) and only support the installation, it just doesn’t cut it. I want more support for an OS that costs two hundred dollars. Driver support for example, and even application support, even if MandrakeSoft or Red Hat or SuSE are not the direct developers of these applications. From the moment they include all that software on their product and sell it, they should be supporting it. Apple, Microsoft and other Unix vendors support all or most of the included software. And the main reason they do not include other third party software is because they don’t want to have the headaches of supporting it for people who do not understand the difference of “we are not the developers of this application”. Linux has taken the approach for only support the installation procedure (possibly a relic from the ’90s taboo for “installing Linux is difficult”) and they are throwing as much as (free) software as they can in it and they expect us to pay for it. Sure, if you are a modem user it makes sense to have the CDs with all the software in it, but you won’t be realling using all of these packages anyway.
This is the “server” product from Mandrake and includes a kernel with support for 4 GB memory and other server services like DNS, NIS etc. Red Hat Pro includes these packages too and they include even more in their (more pricey) Advanced Server product (with cluster support and other exotic).
The only “interesting” reason why someone should buy the ProSuite edition is because of the MandrakeOnline security update feature which is free for the first computer and 25% off the price for a second installation (normally $55 per year). But still, putting everything together, the ProSuite is 30-40% more expensive than its direct competitors, Red Hat 8 Professional ($125-$150) and SuSE Professional (only $80). And in fact, documentation on the Red Hat 8 PRO is much better than Mandrake’s, it includes more booklets explaining things beyond how to click through the preference panels or how to load a web browser… ProSuite includes some more documentation in the CD as PDFs (as Red Hat and SuSE also does), but I can’t get it out of my mind that a real booklet would be great (I prefer something that I can touch for something I would pay for). In fact, the same PDFs are included in the Standard and PowerPak edition, so it does not give an edge to the ProSuite at all.
My conclusion would be (as with Red Hat as well) to only buy the Standard Edition if you want to support Mandrake. The only “Pro” product that makes a good purchase deal from all three main Linux distros is the SuSE one. Unless I missed something, I personally do not see the Mandrake ProSuite 9.0 as a good deal for what it gives you for two hundred bucks (when comparing it to other Mandrake products and the competition). You expect from any review to give you an idea if it is worth buying or not, so here is my conclusion: ProSuite 9.0 is expensive in comparison for what it offers. Update: I just found the StarOffice RPMs. They were “lost” in the chaos of the commercial CDs without a single word from manuals or the OS that they include such a prominent piece of software in its full version. Well, under the new findings, the price seems much better now (StarOffice 6 itself sells for $75). The Arconis OS Selector boot manager is also included in its full version (as much I as I can tell after installing it). Thing is… do you need StarOffice when OpenOffice.org can do most of the job well?
Related reading:
Mandrake 9.0 product comparison
SuSE 8.1 product comparison
Red Hat 8.0 product comparison
Hmmmm… So much like the mandrakeclub, they want you to pay for more software but when you open it up, you find that the software that you just paid for is just demos that you can easily find online. Bastards. Maybe they ought to think about putting their efforts into creating a better OS instead of retarded business models.
What, you pay $175 for the thing and they dont even give you jewel cases? Just paper cd envelopes? You’ve got to be kidding me. All things considered, the price for this seems a bit high.
Hell, OS X, SUE 8.1, and even Windows pro are all cheaper.
I own SuSE 8.1 pro, and I have to say it is truly much much better priced and definetely worth the $49 (I got the subscription plan, so it’s only 49).
In fact SuSE probably had the best value for the money out of all the major disitributions Pro editions. It all also looked really attractive. SuSE is the best IMO, I can evens ent a support query rigt from YAST, that’s convinient
YAST IMO is one fo the ebst things ever invented, though it culd eba lot more user friendly and speedy, it outmaches all otehr tools in power. SuSE’s update is also better, i already got KDE 3.0.5 thrugh YAST and a ton fo upgrades.
Check out my SUSE desktop too: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=4030
Their widnow decoraton is so kick ass!
Mandrake is still an old dog, peroid! Mandrake hasn’t change anything, but just update version and fix small stuff. That’s all what they are doing. Unlike, SuSE, RedHat and other main Linux distros that who are working on their butt off.
Mandrake 9 Standart $30 or free download (iso)
Suse 8.1 Standart $39.95
Mandrake 9 Pro 69.95
Suse 8.1 Pro 79.95
Prices from their websites
And yes Mandrake ProSuite $199
some people like to spent money,so what!
You like Suse, fine go for it, i like Mandrake.
I do agree that they shouldn’t put all the demos in the prosuite, but what the hell, i don’t need prosuite.
>Mandrake 9 Pro 69.95
>Suse 8.1 Pro 79.95
There is no such thing as Mandrake 9 PRO. Their next product is the PowerPak, which is not a server OS as SuSE 8.1 PRO and RH PRO is, but just a bumped-up Standard version with more CDs.
For me, ProSuite is the equivelant of SuSE’s and RH’s PRO versions.
Also, check out SuSE PRO’s support, it is also 90 days as in ProSuite.
My mistake, i still will recommend mandrake standard to my friends, but for those who need Pro-version, i will suggest Redhat or Suse. Thanx for the info Jason and Eugenia.
SuSE’s Pro is better and a lot cheaper. You can post a support query right from YAST and they usually have a little more indepth support, even though they aren’t required to.
Furthermore you get more manuals, which I think are better written,a cd/dvd jewel case, stickers, brochures, attractive quiskstart, stickers and much more.
I also think SuSE’s product is much much better looking than Mandrake’s defauly butt ugly KDE. Don’t tell me to download new ones, some of SuSE’s gorgeous art like the window decorationa dn kicker tile for example, isn’t available
online.
I like Mandrake’s openess, but their product is not competitively priced and doesen’t have mucha dded value.
how come every review turns into a distro-zealot slug fest?
so you like mandrake best, that’s cool…big deal…some people like SuSE better…some people like slack, some people like debian…some people (like myself) god forbid…like red hat
it’s linux…most of it’s the exact same thing just in a different package and some cosmetic differences…and there’s room for all of them…if there stops being room for all of them, then the unneaded ones will disappear, simple as that
anyway…enough ranting and raving
-bytes256
And you can’t help being compared. If there were no comparrisons taht would mean we would all be using the same distribution, it is human nature and it is what fuels innovation. Live with it, if your distro is hurt in the process, too bad, tehy ened to improve.
All the distros do, more or less.
Windows XP Pro retail cost #300. The OEM verison varries from $70-$200. But I do agree they are overpriced.
Jason, that screen shot you posted has a very nice and sharp looking fonts. Have you done some tweaking by any chance or is that how the fonts look in SuSe Linux by default?
Sorry for going off topic in here.
after trying both rh8 and md9, rh beats the pants off MD….:D
So ok, Windows XP cost approximatively the same than Mandrake Pro Suite. But with windows you only get the minesweeper. You have actually tp PAY for more softwate like :
Office (>100 $)
DVDreader (>25$)
PhotoEditing (>40$)
etc etc..Why does nobody think about THAT. Windows IS not cheap.
Oh BTW, Mandrake is a fine distribution. All linuxes aren’t ready for juste install and roll, and some tweeking is needed. But Windows does to. The difference is that in windows you don’t get any debug messages (like on /var/messages) in order to find you r problem.
How much has Mandrake changed in the past few releases? Next to nothing. While its competitors have improved in leaps and bounds, they rarely change. If I present SuSE, Red Hat and Mandrake to a customer, ask them to try all three out and pick one, they would most probably pick either SuSE or Red Hat.
Just some suggestions for Mandrake, hope some Mandrakesoft employee hears this
– Desktop integration. Please, for crying out loud, pick a desktop. Most people, especially in the enterprise, don’t care about 11 WMs. They want something that is completely integrated and works together.
For this purpose, I would suggest KDE. Not because it is my personal favourite (which, for now, happens to be GNOME 2.0), but because it is the fastest way to the market. One of the ways to integrate is to build Mandrake pref applets into KControl. This is where SuSE and to some extend Red Hat don’t get too. Placing everything in a centralized place actually is a convienice to the user.
– Better installation. For many, this would be their first look on Mandrake in real. And Mandrake’s installer looks completely unprofessional. Using the same widgets used in the default desktop would increase the look of professionalism.
Another problem with the installer is that it asks too much questions. Many of the questions is better asked after the installation (First Time Wizard, anyone?). The help message located on the bottom of the screen should be more helpful. Each choice, without looking at the help, should be well explained. Try to reduce on jargon, for example replace the word “root” with Administator.
– Competitive Egde. They should have their own looks. Currently, they are all around ugly. What I suggest is something like Keramik, which is original. Only unlike Keramik, use smaller widgets (less beveled, smaller shadow). You don’t have to use your corporate colours inside the system on the buttons, icons etc. Red Hat’s and SuSE’s corporate colours is red and green respectively, but they don’t use these colours in their UI look.
It is highly important that you should look different from the others. You must strenghten up your brandname so when someone sees Mandrake he wouldn’t say “Hey, that’s Linux!”, instead, “Hey, that’s Mandrake”.
Other ways to improve their competitive egde is to make custom apps like those similar to iApps, a custom version of Mozilla that looks native in KDE, a custom version of OpenOffice.org that includes mroe features and also looks and feels native under KDE. Stuff like that. Mandrake-only stuff.
– MandrakeClub. Really, what it is currently is just cheap commercial software for Linux. What Mandrake should develop it into is something like Click And Run. There are many problems with CNR, if Mandrake fixes them all, it would be bliss.
MandrakeClub should be merged with MandrakeExpert and Mandrake User, Mandrake Forums, and Mandrake Online. Certain parts of the site would be pay only, the rest would be free. Plus, for software sales, it should be a way to retail software. In other words, it would be nice to have pay-as-you-download option. So if I only download CrossOver, I pay for that only.
The merge should perhaps be called either Mandrake Club or Mandrake Online.
– Improve their site. Personally, after Conectiva.com.br, Mandrake’s network of sites is one of the worst designed ever. My suggestion is that Mandrake should remove the clutter from their website. Their main website should be at Mandrake.com. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/linux should be their product website. http://www.mandrake.com/developers should be development (Cooker) related topics. Stuff like that.
The site should be geared in quickly telling potential customers the BENEFITS (not features) of their product. They shouldn’t target people that would be interested in the littlest of things like the kernel version.
– DON’T be bleeding edge. Mandrake should start their software freeze 6 months before release. Incorporate all patches as you can. You want a polish release. So what if the kernel is 6 months old? As long it doesn’t give kernel panics, it is just fine. Now, just say they started development for Mandrake 9.1, and is using KDE 3.1. A month later, KDE 3.2 comes out. STICK with KDE 3.1.
Also, have long product cycles, preferably 18 months. Between the 18 months, continually patch up the current versions. You shouldn’t bother about people who want the bleeding egde. They are not profitable. Get the untapped market.
– Make more partnerships. The problem with current Linux companies is that they want to do everything themselves. Make partnerships with ISVs. For example, license Red Carpet.
Also, don’t always follow in the shadow of Red Hat. If it can get back the same amount of support they got in their peak, they could set their own standards.
Maybe I should write a article about this.
Maybe I should write a article about this.
Looks like you just did.
Listen to Rajan R,
He has written some of the things I have been thinking.
eg. The Mandrake installer asking too many questions.
If Rajan R has a job, too bad Mandrake. But if he doesn’t you should give him a job pretty high up, making decisions. Because what he says makes sense.
I installed Mandrake 9.0 from CD’s on the cover of a Comp. Magazine. It lasted 1 hour on my system.
They have all this great and available technology, they should ask themselves what should we do with it.
Be the innovator not the replicator.
Windows will not provide support for non-M$ software.
Mandrake never promised more software via the club, they only promised that you could get the stuff which was on the CDs (granted, most of it you can download, but not as RPMs with menu entries etc), for downloaders, and to support development more directly.
Does anybody here actually read. I’m starting to have my doubts!
Hell, OS X, SUE 8.1, and even Windows pro are all cheaper.
You can’t compare Windows 2000 Pro or XP to any “Pro” Linux distribution. You would have to compare it at least to a server version, which is at least 3 times more expensive than any of these distros.
I own SuSE 8.1 pro, and I have to say it is truly much much better priced and definetely worth the $49 (I got the subscription plan, so it’s only 49).
Compare apples with apples please!! Prosuite subscription is $125 per version, and includes StarOffice 6.0 and a few other full packages. And I am not sure if the support would compare either.
In fact SuSE probably had the best value for the money out of all the major disitributions Pro editions. It all also looked really attractive. SuSE is the best IMO, I can evens ent a support query rigt from YAST, that’s convinient
YAST IMO is one fo the ebst things ever invented, though it culd eba lot more user friendly and speedy, it outmaches all otehr tools in power. SuSE’s update is also better, i already got KDE 3.0.5 thrugh YAST and a ton fo upgrades.
All of this is subjective and debateable. rpmdrale/urpmi are fine, I am running KDE3.1 already just using those (but of course on cooker). 3.0.5 is out for 9.0 etc already, but currently “unsupported”. Considering that Mandrake does have a smaller team, this is understandeable, but how many people *really* need anything but the security fixes?
Check out my SUSE desktop too: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=4030
Their widnow decoraton is so kick ass!
Is this really that important? Mandrake has more features the directly affect useability. And how do we know what there is from the distro, when you have the Noia icons and other deco that is clearly post SuSE??
Americans (most distros are trying for that market that we talk about here) prefer Threes; they don’t like too many choices. Example: Auto-Ford, GM, Crysler…Cable–ATT, TW, other…Pizza–Dominos, Little Ceasers, Hungry Howies.. The list goes on.
For the PC market Linux need to step up as #3 choice…MS, Apple, ????
MS is doing a favor by killing off Win9x; Apple is killing off OS 9. This provides an opening in ISV minds because the will precive 3 platforms as decent to support. Linux vendors need to quickly provide a unified front for consumer software. One easy way to steal customers would be to get Wine, etc. to a Win 98 level of functionality allowing Linux to be a cheap upgrade for older machines and games.
I see Lindows, Lycoris, and Xandros heading in the right direction with simple, standard Linux Subset configs that are tweaked to just work. Red Hat, Mandrake, and Suse are trying to provide massive Supersets of Linux with every possible option and from most of the reviews lately, don’t really please any large group of people. Linux needs to consolidate “mindshare” to gain ground.
I am looking for something to replace my aging Win 98 boxes at work, and few of the distros really market to me. I don’t care about hundreds of programs with lots of options, just prove to me that what I need it to do will work. (Lycoris Office Productivity pack is looking like what I want at this point.) If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn’t be looking to buy something. I’d just roll my own; but I can’t do that yet.
The more I look around, the more I see Linux being ready for daily business users. Only a few people are marketing it properly though. Also, I think there should be a push for retail box space. Really, a chain store like CompUSA only carries several dozen grade A Windows Apps. Most of the shelf space is $20 cheap gadget stuff and games. Perhaps if the Wine group could come up with a compatibility sticker to slap on some boxes that the stuff would work on linux, or a suite for ISVs that would check wine compatibility more people would be willing to switch. Transgamming seems to be doing well in that direction, but they need to advertize it at retail a little more.
Well, depends on what you do, much of it is pretty free. If you are comparing Office and StarOffice, that’s bad. StarOffice costs $75. And if you got XP Pro via OEM or volume licensing (like most XP Pro customers do), it is about $75 + $75.
Then you mention DVDreader. Does Mandrake has anything like it? I doubt it. What DVD-related tools Mandrake has is inferior to what Windows XP has built in anyway.. Plus Windows XP can play DVD movies (encypted) out of the box.
Then PhotoEditing. If you want GIMP quality apps, I couldn’t find anything. All of it are much more expensive and much more superior. There are free ultilities the average Joe (the same group of people that wouldn’t be able to comprehend GIMP’s UI) could use with his digital camera. Want the ultimate app without any Linux altenative, which is better than iPhoto, Picasa. There is a 30-day trial to the $30.00 app.
Well, sure, retail-wise, Windows does cost more. But OEM or volume licensing? 🙂
does the suse and red hat versions everyone is comparing too come with star office also? i haven’t looked, but assume they do…
also, why the club bashing? mandrake club is something they did right! for a few bucks a year i can get every release as if buying a box set, plus other software, plus while everyone else is seeing swamped mirrors i am downoading isos as fast as my cable modem will go. how is this bad?
then they throw in discounts on third party software just in case. real bummer.
Eugenia Look at Mandrakesoft NEW Secret weapon :
http://www.00fun.com/kittyhello2.shtml
If this dont convert You to Mandrake nothing will !
I promise you no other OS or Linux distribution as this feature ! its a really FUN feature
Those are the default fonts, all I id was add a few more from the KDE Control Center. There was a font pack posted on KDE-LOOK
” So ok, Windows XP cost approximatively the same than Mandrake Pro Suite. But with windows you only get the minesweeper. You have actually tp PAY for more softwate like :
Office (>100 $)
DVDreader (>25$)
PhotoEditing (>40$) ”
Your forgetting that 95% of users already have those programs and windows, so in fact it doesen’t really amtter. Almsot everyoen will be switching not starting from scratch.
it seems that eugenia is at it again. and it seems
that the same ole crowd that likes to complain is at
it again. if u want to go with the distros that are
just waiting to do pay per view please go. let Mandrake
and all the people that love what Mandrake has done
live in peace. eugenia in my opinion has problems, its
her attitude and i dont dare say what i think is causing
it
but ovbiously there are enough whiners and complainers
around to keep her happy.
enjoy.
if u comment on this please mail me and so i can come
back and baby sit u
b by
does eugenia have a *relationship* with red hat
>does eugenia have a *relationship* with red hat
No, but I DO have with MandrakeSoft, believe it or not.
i cant figure out how to reply to your post so i will
just start a new thread.
please, please, please tell u about your relationship
u have or had
with Mandrake soft
rolling on the floor
come on now , dont be shy
>come on now , dont be shy
Not as long as you are behaving like a clown.
After reading some of the comments here, I think I have to comment some of your postings by myself:
Here in Germany you pay the same Price for Red Hat Pro as for Mandrake Pro, they both cost about 199 Eur, btw if you register your prosuite (does not cost anything) you get two update-cds with all the update-packages, and urpmi is only just short of apt-get, when it comes to installing security-updates and such things
The default look of a Linux Distribution is somewhat secondary, because you can tweak it, if you are not able to do this, then thats your problem, hey btw you can even skin WinXP, although thats not what Microsoft intended
Where does the Mandrake Installer ask you too much ???, it does not ask more or less than the Red Hat Installer, maybe you try the “recommended” route next time, I alwyas try the “expert” route, because I want to be asked where the bootloader should belong; lets have an example: what if it does not detect your plug&pray monitor correct, does not ask you and your X11 sucks, then you would whine too
I like to have a choice of Window-Managers, i like Mandrake for having a consistent menu-structure regardless of the window-manager since some time, have you ever seen the menu in suses gnome, not very nice
the mandrake control center has really grown better each version i had since 8.1, you can really administer most parts of your system from there, and I think suses yast is not that much more comfortable
the cds of my red hat 8.0 had only paper envelopes too, and I do not think that suse has jewel-cases in 8.1, in 8.0 they did not
maybe you have all the office suite and so on when you buy a new windows, some poeple do not have, so the linux-distros are cheaper than windows, I never heard of a windows XP Pro shipping with a web server or a ftp-server or a mail-server and so on, thats all part of windows 2000 Server which costs much more
I use red hat 7.3,8.0, mandrake since 8.1, debian woody, lycoris/LX, knoppix !!! since 2.1 (its a debian on a live-cd, great !!!) and I like them all, I use Suse 7.3 and 8.0 too, at work, but I do not like them really, but that is really something personally
last note: the mandrake-Isos could be downloaded even befor you could buy the distro !!!, so if you only want to have have have, but not buy, then you could have downloaded it (some people like to pay the guys at mandrake and red hat for doing a great job)
dont get me wrong, the only thing i hated in this thread was this my distro-is-better-than-yours tone, and some of the half-truths that were used to support the own distro, no distro is perfect, and all have their strong and weak points, hey I really like the look of kde in suse 8.1
now thats what I had to say
with regards
ok, lets talk about your review ? then u can
tell us about your relationship with Mandrake Soft
laters
“And the main reason they do not include other third party software is because they don’t want to have the headaches of supporting it for people who do not understand the difference of “we are not the developers of this application””
Exactly , most people don’t know the difference. If something is broke it’s vendor’s fault. Period.
It is broke? Don’t include it, I don’t even want to see it.
Learn mandrake, keep it simple and solid.