Techradar had a day touring Samsung’s European forum and had the chance to interview Samsung’s Head of Worldwide Sales and Marketing, Kyu Uhm. During the session, Uhm mentioned that future Samsung netbooks will undoubtedly include Windows 7, but having a full version as opposed to the sorry Starter Edition was iffy. It was also mentioned that future Samsung netbooks installed with a Linux distribution was a slight possibility if enough customers truly wanted it.Uhm said that, currently, Starter Edition is what’s happening for netbooks because Microsoft “would like to give us Windows 7 Starter Edition for netbooks,” but it’s not a far-fetched idea that Samsung could pay Microsoft royalties enough to be allowed to preinstall full versions of Windows 7. In other words, full versions of 7 are definitely on the menu; it just depends on how much Microsoft will charge to put them on a netbook. On the other hand, when the matter of full versions on netbooks was pressed, all Uhm had to say was that Samsung needs to, um, “ask Microsoft first.”
Patrick Pavel, European Product Manager, answered when asked about Linux that there currently weren’t any working movements to design a Linux netbook, but Samsung would give in to consumer’s wishes if there was enough demand for it. He said that Linux netbooks “made a certain community very happy.”
We can do Linux if the market is demanding it. If there’s demand, let’s do it. We even started to develop some Linux platforms.
According to Pavel, though there currently isn’t anything in the works, Samsung already has done development on several netbooks for Linux. If Starter Edition is forced onto the market, it could be that the demand for Linux netbooks will become much greater.
This whole scam called “Windows 7 Starter Edition” is ridiculous trickery on Microsoft’s part, and the idea should have been shot down the moment it was suggested at one of those shiny, long, executive meeting tables in Redmond. I’ve always thought Apple’s restriction of OS X to its own hardware was a bit eccentric, but this is downright dirty, especially if it’ll force netbooks with full Windows versions on them up a hundred or two hundred dollars or force users to pay Microsoft more money to upgrade from Starter Edition. However, it also may influence OEMs to walk on the Linux side of things and bring the best of Linux to the netbook plate unlike many previous netbook offerings. Hopes are either that or that Starter Edition quickly dies an ignominious death and full versions will be offered for much less.
Here’s hoping that enough people express interest, I for one would have much preferred my NC10 came with linux, maybe ubuntu.
As it was, I contributed to windows sales counts even though I formatted the hard drive without ever touching the windows install.
I’d call support asking “how do I install Linux in my brand new notebook”?
But I usually buy OS-less, since the vendors always try to make me buy Windows Ultimamte Full OEM, and when I say don’t, they usually do a last try with “Ubuntu“.
I for one would have much preferred my Acer Aspire One would not have come with such a lame attempt at an OS as their hacked version of Linpus is, and instead just come just with support to install a popular and recent major Linux distro…
Edited 2009-03-26 07:42 UTC
You are talking from a techie point of view. I saw the UI on teh Acer for the first time yesterday and I was taken aback by how easy it is. it would be perfect for anyone not interested/competent in computers but needs one for email and web etc.
Personally i’d also prefer a full distro on it.
I’m still running Linpus on my AA1.
I’ve got rid of the weird UI they put on it and got back to a fairly normal XFCE. It’s perfect for my needs without all that faffing getting the hardware to work.
One day I’ll put Arch/something else on there but for now I’m enjoying /using/ the thing too much to want to start distro-hopping.
I am sorry, I’ve read that so many times, and I just do not agree one bit…
Why am I a techy? My mom surely wants to be able to Skype me, or contact me through AIM, open Word files, and I surely do not want her to be stuck with an unsecure browser, which she definitely wants to update by itself. So wanting to put a flashcards program is high end? If anything standard Linux distros and their repositories try to make installing an easier experience than on Windows!
Building an easy to use lauchpad has nothing to do with shipping a broken product. One thing does not obligue the latter. Shipping a software platform that is not intended to be updated or customized in any way is not going to satisfy neither techies nor computer illiterates, nor anybody in between. Note: I did keep my Acer Aspire One; my mom’s profile probably fits better in the group of unsatisfied masses returning them.
And in any case, if that is your point, Linux has nothing to do in the equation. You would be just as happy with a locked install of Windows shipping with a similar set of apps to the one that came with Acer’s Linpus.
Edit: Sorry, I now see I somewhat started mixing threads’ topcis, since I had another comment somewhat below.
Edited 2009-03-26 14:29 UTC
So use Ubuntu with the netbook-launcher package installed. Or Ubuntu Netbook Remix. No need to feature Distrowatch distro #43 as the best we have to offer. (Yeah, I know, distrowatch numbers are not authoritative. But you have to wonder if being #43 doesn’t mean something.)
Edit: I do note, however, that Linpus does outrank Xandros, #44.
Edited 2009-03-26 15:50 UTC
You’re telling me … I had to order an Aspire One with Windows because the Linux version wasn’t yet available. Of course the consequence will be that some smartass will conclude “See? Few versions sell with Linux, if any! Let’s go Windows only!!!”.
Looking on the bright side, I stopped paying the MS tax on all my desktop boxes, at least that …
Rehdon
If they start shipping with Linux distros that actually exist in the real world, it’d be good. Most of the past efforts have shipped with obscure installations that nobody is familiar with, making them harder to support. Fedora, Ubuntu, Suse – I know those, I know how they work, I know where I can find software for them. Linpus? What on earth is that? Never heard of it until someone decided to ship it on their netbook model…
Linpus is I believe derived from Fedora 8. If you take the necessary steps, documented in online user forums, it is possible to “break out” Linpus netbooks from the semi-closed state they are delivered in, and subsequently to use Fedora 8 repositories to add additional programs.
Good luck installing not so rare software on a (hacked) Fedora 8 based distro. We are already at v10, so 8 is considered apparently middle age by package mantainers. Not even installing… just hit “update all” and enjoy your brick.
I took those “necessary steps”, which may I say were a pain in the ass. I managed to get things like barely acceptable IMAP support through Thunderbird or a browser that does not become obsolete 3 days after Acer releases their own package of Firefox, only thanks to very detailed instructions by macles*. Pidgin, was a no-go for things I did not understand and I no longer remember.
I am still left with a system were I cannot easily (or difficultly, as far as my skills allow) install many things I want (and no, none of them are Crysis; just things like a version of Gnome-do that is not from paleolithic ages, Anki or other apps that are definitely quite light)
I only need to find some hours of my spare time I had rather use for other things, to make that joke of an OS vanish, and install an Ubuntu that “almost” works.
Edited 2009-03-26 07:43 UTC
Fedora 10 runs quite well on my Aspire One. Haven’t tried the latest Rawhide to see if anything broke, but a month-old Fedora Rawhide and an up-to-date Ubuntu 9.04 development also seem to work well. That being said, I wonder, why some of us, myself included, feel the need to be constantly updating our systems with bleeding edge software. Looking over at the Windows world, many people never (or at most rarely) update. I guess we’re a different breed.
I couldn’t care less if the OS is the latest version in my netbook, I just want it not to be a security hole to be raided, and allow me to install small simple programs that while relatively new, are light indeed and more than suited for the hardware’s capabilities. If I am going to install only from repositories, that usually calls for the latest version of the OS, though.
Yep, many Windows users do not update. And then happens what happens…
There is a reason why guides on how to install Ubuntu on the Aspire One (Google ‘aspireone ubuntu’ or ‘aspireone aa1 ubuntu’) exist. That is neither an easy task, nor, unlike what you say, provides full hardware support (even if pretty acceptable), and requires a myriad of custom tweaks. Until you hit “update all” and sound breaks again, that is.
Edited 2009-03-26 14:32 UTC
As of last January, Fedora 8 is no longer considered middle age by the package maintainters. It is considered unsupported by them. Cut down at age 14 months, just when it was stabilizing enough that I was able to remove some of the workarounds I had in place. (It was scheduled to get the axe around Christmas, at age 13 months, but they relented in defference to the season.)
Welcome to the love ’em and leave ’em world of Fedora.
Edited 2009-03-26 15:48 UTC
Yeah, but it’s still obscure, hard to find people who can support it, and needs effort to make it use any of the most common repositories. Not exactly a strong selling point, is it?
I understand what Microsoft is trying to do, but it seems incredibly suspect. Microsoft Sells a crippled version of their software to the vendor, and get both revenue; brand reinforcement; a possible second payment probably larger from the customer; starves of Gnu/Linux or Android/Linux.
What could go wrong with that scenario?
Well … it could possibly work if no-one has heard of GNU/Linux, and Microsoft can get the OEMs to refuse to pre-install any reasonable version of Linux on netbooks. This has worked for them so far with XP Home, although given the price they are charging they aren’t making any money.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, the weaker and cheaper they make the crippled version of Windows 7, the more damage to their brand, the less money they make, and the stronger becomes the temptation for customers to switch to Linux. OTOH, the stronger and more expensive they make Windows 7 on netbooks, then although their brand doesn’t perhaps suffer as much for quality it does become associated with “expensive” and “no-value-for-money”, and the stronger becomes the temptation for customers to get the Linux version of a given netbook in the first place.
This all looks to me very much like “a rock and a hard place” stuff for Microsoft.
That is assuming that people will be willing to opt for the Linux based devices instead instead of giving up on the idea of a netbook entirely. At the end of the day – the success or failure of Linux on the netbook is clearly in the corner of OEM vendors. If they keep insisting on using obscure distributions and poorly supported wireless chipsets (AR2425) (or hardware in general) over wireless chipsets that are better supported (such as the wireless provided by Intel) – then of course things will never pick up.
Side note, why the hell do they keep using wireless chipsets they KNOW won’t well? is Microsoft paying them to deliberately sabotage their Linux line or something? I would have thought that OEM’s would go to Intel and say “I want a board with intel everything” and it would be cheaper in reference to bulk discount than having a piece meal board with parts from many different vendors.
Edited 2009-03-26 05:53 UTC
Agreed. 100%
There are a very few (sometimes more obscure ones) OEM vendors who are willing to produce x86 stuff that is designed to work 100% with Linux. Often, though, OEMs seem to have deliberately chosen one of the few chips for which there is not proper support in Linux. Hmmmm.
Very, very, very good questions.
“Hit the nail on the head” stuff there.
As an aside … coming soon will be ARM-based netbooks. ARM chips are very good in performance-per-watt ratings. Expect day-long battery life or better from an ARM netbook. ARM are working directly with Canonical to get a port of Ubuntu up and running.
There should be no problems whatsoever with Linux on netbooks from that major OEM.
I wonder whether these OEM’s are just plain incompetant and lazy; lets remember that even when they are given a vanilla copy of Windows along with all the required Windows customised tools – even then they can’t do a decent job. Heck, some of it so bad that there are users who go out and search for an OEM DVD so that they can do a clean install of Windows.
As much as I would love to roast Microsoft – it is hard to ignore the incompetence of the OEM vendors.
Even if they do go ARM – someone will have to provide the wireless chipset and most likely it will be Broadcom unfortunately.
Question, why hasn’t there been a firmware created so that it acts as HAL between the operating system and hardware so that instead of actually communicating directly to the hardware itself the operating system talks to this HAL and leaves the HAL to handle the rest. Then what you can do is have a common HAL by which all operating systems can write against and thus the whole debacle about hardware compatibility could finally be done away with.
When a new piece of hardware is added the driver is installed onto the firmware and one is installed on the operating system. The driver in the firmware stays there permanently (or until the user uninstalls it via something like a BIOS setup utility) and it is exposed to the operating system in a uniform manner.
I guess I can only dream given it will never come true.
Let’s just say this is not “a coincidence” or “a mistake” or something of the kind.
Well, if Microsoft start asking for too much, we’ll probably see a market where the Linux version will be crippled. Like, no wireless N, no bluetooth, 4 GB flash instead of 160 GB hard drive, 512 MB RAM instead of 2 GB RAM, half the battery capacity… And hey, maybe it’ll even cost the same!
I saw that with pretty much every netbook past the ASUS Eee 900/901. Linux only shows up on the cheapest hardware configurations. I guess the theory is that if you want Linux you’re REALLY, REALLY cheap.
It isn’t a universal mistake made by absolutely all OEMs, however:
http://www.linux-netbook.com/kogan-agora-netbook-pro
http://www.linux-netbook.com/hp-mini-1000-mi-89
http://www.linux-netbook.com/cherrypal-bing
http://www.linux-netbook.com/dell-inspiron-mini-9-16-gb-ssd-black
Have a look at this:
http://www.amazon.com/3K-COMPUTERS-3K-RZ400-4GB-WIN-Notebook-RAZORB…
Nice specifications, too bad they hate overseas customers:
Speaks volumes about Amazon and their hatred of overseas customers – they might as well put up a big sign out the front of their webshop saying “piss off foreigners”.
Many people who use linux are indeed really really cheap,
and play with computers like toys, want everything
open source given to them out of the goodness of one’s
heart and then they still complain.
Thats a really stange one the point being made is you cannot on a netbook…a device thats not designed to be upgraded, buy the same hardware for less than one that comes bundled with an OS you will not use, and the OS Chosen is not even one you would be likely to chose or try for yourself.
Ignoring the fact that GNU/Linux is Mainstream, typical users only upgrade their hardware every five years. I suspect5 anyone who has been enjoying Linux for a long, spends more on hardware. I also suspect very strongly they can look at 100 motherboards and pick the one they want, and will spend the time researching that stuff. If you mean they are not going to spend £300 on Vista Ultimate + Whatever it is Photoshop etc etc I suspect your right…but I suspect my machine will have a higher specification that yours and will be upgraded sooner simply because I’m not tied to an OEM copy of software.
So in other words:
Linux only grows by market demand; which can’t really be calculated until someone sticks with selling Linux enough to show it.
Windows versions are selected by Microsoft, not the OEM, nor the customer.
Who is in charge here? Uhh…EU, USDOJ – can you smell what we smell – an anti-trust lawsuit?