A lot of details have leaked on Microsoft’s next major revamp of Windows Mobile, version 7. “Windows Mobile 7 will use touch gestures, similar to how the iPhone does. You will be able to flick through lists, pan, swipe sideway, draw on the screen. A lot of emphasis has been put on making navigation easier and doing away with scrollbars, including a new scroll handle that allows for multiple ways of finding items extremely fast. Windows Mobile 7 will use motion gestures, something the iPhone does not. It will not use an intricate and complicated series of gyroscopes and accelerometers. Instead, it will use the camera on the phone to detect motions and create appropriate actions. You will be able to shake, twist and otherwise manipulate the phone and get things done. The phone will be able to perform actions when placed face down on a surface, and it will know when it is in your pocket or bag.”
…when I see it.
So, Apple releases a new product that, at least appears, years ahead of the competition.
A little while later, Microsoft announce that they are going to take all that is good with this apple product, and release a newer, better version with added features.
5 years later, Microsoft manages to release a product that doesn’t even slightly resemble what they promised.
I can’t think where I heard this story before
.
Edited 2008-01-06 23:32 UTC
the iPhone is referenced several times in the document. Windows Mobile 7 will ship in 2009
Also this phrase is annoying: It will not use an intricate and complicated series of gyroscopes and accelerometers.
What’s wrong about gyroscopes and accelerometers? I wonder how much proccesing power and complexity is needed to detect acceleration and positioning by just looking the images from a webcam. And lets not mention that I can’t see how a webcam is going to work well in many situations. For example, when you turn on your phone, how does the camera know the position. And in order to work well when you’re moving it fastly, you will probably need a high-quality camera and a lot of raw processing power. And what about the light, etc?
Compare it with those “complex” accelerometers and gyroscopes: you just get the needed data straight from them. As long as they are cheap (and mass producting will make them cheap), they look like a much better option. A good example of a Second System Syndrome…”Hey, let’s copy iPhone, but let’s change something from it so it looks like we can think and make c00l things”
Edited 2008-01-07 00:04
Now that you mention it. I really didn’t really think about how the camera was going to work, just that it was a neat idea, though I see what you mean. The camera will most likely not work in all situations, and it will require more from the software than a simple hardware solution like a gyroscope. I also pointed out that battery life can be an issue if the camera has to be on to figure out its position, not to mention the lag if the camera doesn’t update fast enough to save battery life. I really doubt they will pull it off though so it doesn’t really matter all that much in the end.
no but the issue is they’ll say they can and people will believe them….
Competitors have went out of business with their clients ‘waiting’ on ‘announced’ Microsoft software that never eventually appeared or was years later.
Maybe Vista will give people food for thought this time… or maybe not 😐
I forgot to add that WHEN they do eventually come out, they arrive with half or less the features that were promised.
Haha yeah I thought that was funny as well.
“Instead of using the right piece of hardware for the job, even though it is tiny, cheap, and does exactly what we need, we decided to go the roundabout route and use the camera, which will involve lots of heavy image processing and have all sorts of limitations due to tricky lighting or backgrounds.”
Yep, they are already very cheap, we use them at work (and very small as well).
Edited 2008-01-07 00:10
I suppose they are using the camera because Windows Mobile is supposed to run on a vast selection of devices, and the majority of them won’t have acelerometers built in. The manufacturers probably can’t be bothered to install them just to please Microsoft either.
Cameras, meanwhile, are pretty much standard on all mobile phones but the cheapest, so it makes some sense to try to use them as an alternative of sorts.
Exactly. The cameras are also used for in-air hand gestures independent of phone movement (as shown in a mockup on Engadget http://www.engadget.com/photos/is-this-windows-mobile-7/561228/ ), and object recognition (currently in use for barcodes, data-associated images [for off-air data transfer], and potentially buildings, people, etc.).
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/is-this-windows-mobile-7/
Edited 2008-01-07 04:55
What? First of all, nobody said having the camera on all time is a huge privacy atack. It is the big excuse for big brother.
Then, it is stupid to say that all devices have a webcam but don’t have accelerometers. Not all devices ave a webcam. Having accelerometers is cheap.
The problem here is simply that accelerometer’s use is patented, so if they don’t find a hole in the patent they must say inversors they’ll solve it one way or another.
If it wasn’t feasible with the camera they would be telling us they got an experimental neural device recognition system that could put the screen the way you wanted.
Never mind. Nobody is going to remember what they say now in two years. And yet 90% of chances are that they manage to use Apple accelerometer’s technology.
Any pics? I would like to see one.
You just pretty much said everything I had to say
Using the camera, and as such requiring more CPU time and consuming battery, not to mention the other issues with such approach, is just plain idiosyncracy. But hey, it’s Microsoft, they can surely pull this off! :3
The Wii remote uses a camera to detect motion. It’s an infrared camera. It also has an accelerometer. On the other hand, the remote needs to detect more complex/rapid motions, so using just a camera might work.
But that’s not the point. The point is that Microsoft likes to drop something like this on the public just to create hype with zero meaning. We spend our time heatedly debating the topic and meanwhile the topic is pure vaporware. I’ve seen this before too many times. I’m not feeding the Microsoft hype anymore until I actually see the thing launched.
Haha! You are probably right about all that, but perhaps there is some snazzy new imaging tech around the corner that makes it feasible to use a camera for some of the spatial functions.
It is certainly quite intriguing how this would work, and not work. How will the gadget know that itself is moving and not the objects that the camera is filming? Will skipping a music track while riding a bike, car or train have to involve some acrobatic jerking to compensate for some inferred motion 😉 ? What if I accidentally place a finger over the camera? And isn’t one of the points with a spatial system that you can use it under low light conditions…
Looking forward to see it in action.
Edited 2008-01-07 02:14
Or what if it’s DARK…
I was just thinking the same ting. I often use my iPod touch when it’s dark.. The labyrinth game(From Installer.app) is awesome, and utilizes the motion sensor in a great way!
Many of my friends are stunned by the accuracy of the tilting.
simple, add an IR emitting LED next to the camera lense and tweak the cam to pick up IR as well as standard wavelengths. You can hack a normal webcam for that.
Edited 2008-01-09 17:24 UTC
Fanboy, please.
Microsoft does not control the hardware in which the updated OS will be installed. Unlike anything put out under the closed products of Apple. So requiring hardware phone vendors to install gyroscopes and accelerometers for an update OS would be very shortsighted.
Eventhough I wish MS were more original, one idea I found cool was the fact that they don’t use a gyrometer in the device to detect motion but instead use the camera. The only downside I see is battery usage if the camera has to be on all the time to detect motion, but like the article pointed out it allows for more motion to be detected than what the iphone does at the moment. In that respect I don’t see why some enterprising jailbreak dev can’t translate that into something useful.
Any decent shell?
PowerShell is nice (maybe), but something closer to the bash/zsh would be good too.
And please do away with separate subsystems for Win32 applications and console ones. That sucks big time.
Something freely re-sizable, such as xterm.
Plus, whatever the shell you put in, please do throw away cmd.exe. Replace that ancient thing with something decent and fast (PowerShell is slow, very slow)
I think you misread the title. The article is about Windows Mobile 7 (for phone devices) and not about Windows 7 (Desktop/Server).
2009, ! 2009 ,!
I go right now in my nearest shop and book it, but am afraid to keep my ugly, and useless (iphone) ipod touch for still a long time to go…
2009, ! you dreamed it, Bill made it, by the way, as promises cost nothing, I heard that 3D will be included and your finger tips will be regenerated and teleported to Alpha Centaury…
They really needs hollidays in Microsoft.
aren’t you supposed to trump up how your new offering will be better than the competition, rather than just vaguely similar, but not really work as well? what is new and innovative about windows mobile 7?
how can this not be considered as ripp off of the iphone.
Just an example from the article
“Users will be able to flick their way through lists and swipe sideways for certain actions and pivoting views. When scrolling through lists, letters are shown to indicate as the user makes his way through the alphabet, as well as the addition of a scroll bar. There will be a visual bump when reaching the end of a list.”
Well a ripp off of the iphone even in the details.
And looking at the all article, it is clear that they describe an interface that works just like the iPhone.
Microsoft is the redoing the history. Apple does, Microsoft comes and copy………
For me gyroscopes and accelerometer are needed anyway in devices which does GPS navigation, as this allow better navigation(*) in places where GPS coverage is spotty.
* if the navigation software is able to correct the GPS input using the accelerometers..
Apple must be really happey they patented multi-touch now…
How is this possible, there were videos put out by a company of multitouch interfaces long before the iPhone.
It’s the sincerest form of flattery, isn’t it?
Edit: This reminds me of a line from classic horror movie Re-Animator, to paraphrase: I wish they’d stolen more of Apples ideas, then at least they’d have ideas.
Edited 2008-01-07 06:48
If you listen to the hype, Microsoft operating systems always seem to do it all. They make magic!
Except reality never quite matches the hype?!?!?!?!
It uses the camera to detect motion? Does that mean that the camera is always on? I am a bit uneasy with that notion…
So will it be like minority report ?
Look out Tom Cruise
You all think Apple invented touch screens or multi-touch technology. It’s a shame. Apple “copied” others too.
Apple is the last company started to reuse touch technology they didn’t even build handwriting recognition in their products (Newton was dead from the begining). iPhone itself is a late product “copying” everyone else.
It depends on putting words after the other: Microsoft doesn’t copy Apple they just develop Apple’s faults. And Apple does the same.
In fact these giant companies have at least 5 year long product plans so they don’t wait other companies to steal from. They already decided what they’ll make in the next 5-10 years.
One of the dangers of being Apple and NOT Microsoft is you sometimes create products before there is either a market or powerful enough technology for them. Sometimes (as with desktop publishing) this aproach really pays off and sometimes (like the Newton) it just falls flat.
Remember that the Newton was trying to ‘recognize’ your handwriting using a 20Mhz CPU.
The first generation Newton’s where very much a first generation but the Newton 2001 was a great little machine. Your smack on with that; Apple released the Newton before most people knew what too do with them.
I’m still trying to replace a few of the apps I used to run on the Newton but just can’t find an equivalent of since. The notepad that run a simple text document or an expandnig todo like tree was brilliant. I can find nothing that compares too it still with the same balance of simple program and document features. Bonzai on PalmOS comes closest but it’s a ton of weight compared to that old app.
Granted.. not everything they put out is a winner but the Newton’s downfall wasn’t the hardware or software.
Actually the 2k series devices ran at 162Mhz. I’ve got several Newtons, including the OMP (the original message pad) and the hand writing recognition works pretty good (especially on the 2k series)….in fact I’ve not seen anything work like the way it does and work as good as it does. You can write anywhere on the screen that accepts text input using print and/or psuedo-script writing and it usually gets it right every time. Other devices, like PalmOs, Windows Mobile and TabletPC have dedicated writing areas that are less intuitive to use. I’m not an Apple fan by any means, but if they release a new Newton I’ll be the first in line to buy one.
Ok, so you have never seen an iphone do you?
I don’t like apple in the sense I think they would be more evil that MS if they could. I’m Linuxer and having apple ignoring us or not letting us use iphones/ipods with our system is not funny.
But they put togheter an amazing product in iphone.
Yeah, accelerometers existed. And touch screen restaurant cash registers too.
But there was NO PDA that went to the marked without an stylus. For example. None!!!
And the photo passing efect. And the nice zoom. Or the navigator zoom in zoom out kind of working.
That is innovative.
That is what MS never do.
But shaking a device “works” already with most devices…doesn’t it? Admit it, we all do it
It seems to me unreasonable to be angry with Microsoft only for learning from others. There is nothing wrong with it, and even Linux programs do it all the time. In fact it is neccesary for all developement, not only in the computer business, but in all other apsects of life aswell. If we could not learn from others, their successes and mistakes, we would still be living in caves.
Actually, it is very easy to work out directions and durations of motion from just a few hundred pixels (you’d probably want to use binning on the sensors to do that), and with only a moderate amount of processing power. And you don’t need to find high contrast edges to do it, either – very low light images would be just fine.
It is also rather difficult to use motion sensors to work out when the phone is in your bag or pocket, in its protective sleeve etc, whereas that’s pretty easy with the camera.
Using the camera is unlikely to impact hugely on battery life, either. By far the most expensive part of the process is lighting up the screen.
Actually, it is very easy to work out directions and durations of motion from just a few hundred pixels (you’d probably want to use binning on the sensors to do that), and with only a moderate amount of processing power. And you don’t need to find high contrast edges to do it, either – very low light images would be just fine.
In theory that would indeed work, but well, you can’t just grab a few hundred pixels from the camera, you’ll have to grab a full image which of course creates slight overhead. And well, even if it is possible to detect motion and direction from those images, it will inevitably get all confused when there are moving objects around the camera or you are for example walking while using the device.
I am interested to see the actual results, not the promises.
…not only do they imitate apple, 2 years too late, they are imitating a Wii controller.
Now that’s innovation!
That looks interesting.
I’ll have to see how it’s implemented before I make a decision. Hopefully the phones released will have enough hardware to run this reasonably well.
A couple of points I would like to see addressed.
1) Biometrics. It would be nice to be able to use a thumb print to unlock the phone or something biometric.
2) One handed use. This one is important. People need to be able to operate the phone while speeding through traffic. Some people can drive with their knees, but some can’t. (I’m joking, but one handed operation is important.)
3) Open access. I’d like a software suite to tweak the OS. I’d like just a little bit more hacker support. I’d also like to sync my phone with the PIM suite on my BSD, Linux, Mac OS X box. Yes, yes MS lock in, but I’d rather not wait for someone to reverse engineer the phone. I’m going to try Symbian to see if it’s better.