I’m a long-time, frustrated Windows user. I have tried various Linux distributions in the past, but I haven’t been satisfied with any of them. Today, I went out and bought Red Hat Linux 8.0 from Office Depot for $40. I am a dial-up internet user and I consider myself computer literate, although I don’t have much experience using Linux on the desktop. I do however, have some experience using Linux and FreeBSD as a server (no GUI).
I was excited to see all the positive, glowing reviews of the latest version of Red Hat Linux. I thought, “finally, I can get away from Windows 98.” “It just works” is the mantra. Unfortunately, this was not the case for me.
I tried two different computers. The first one was my laptop, a Toshiba 2595CDT. Installation was easy, all the hardware was detected flawlessly (even the USB mouse, which Windows 98 was never able to recognize). Installation of the “desktop” system took just over an hour. The computer is a Celeron 400a with 64MB of RAM and a 4.3GB hard drive.
[Editor In Chief’s Note: The RAM for this machine does not meet the requirements of Red Hat 8.0 towards X11.]
Once the system was booted, I was surprised to see that GNOME was so slow, it was useless. It took a full 5 minutes for Open Office Writer to load up. It took a minute for a window to show up when I double-clicked on the ‘home’ icon. I’m sorry, but there’s no way I can use a system like this, I can’t get any work done.
I clicked here and there looking for ways to speed the system up. I turned off “animations,” but it didn’t do anything. What I mean is, all the windows and whatnot were still animated. I found a “services” option which I used to shut down a bunch of unused services. I’m still confused as to why there were printer related services running when I specifically deselected all printer-related packages during the install. I don’t have a printer attached to the laptop and I don’t plan on getting one.
After spending about an hour fooling with this and that, I found a “Desktop Switcher” option. I thought to myself, “cool, maybe there’s a faster desktop than GNOME.” The only other option there was ‘TWM,’ so I clicked it.
It was then that I realized just how easy it is to break a Linux installation. I wasn’t running as root, I was running as a normal user. It dropped me to a blue background with no menus, no icons, nothing. After clicking a bunch of times, the only thing I could bring up was a terminal window. I promptly got back on my “real” desktop machine (running Windows 98) and found a #redhat IRC channel on irc.openprojects.org. Luckily, they told me how to switchback (‘switchdesk gnome’). Unfortunately, it didn’t work 100%. You see, at every login, I am still presented with an ugly “Welcome to XFree86” login screen (as opposed to the default RedHat one I originally had). I tinkered with /etc/inittab for another hour and finally gave up when nothing seemed to work (even changing it to gdm, but as I mentioned, I’m no expert).
Since the whole mess was slow anyway, I decided to try my extra computer (which had CRUX 0.9.4 installed, but that I never used since I couldn’t get much done on it). This computer is a 500mhz Celeron with 128MB of RAM, a 13GB hard drive, and a 16MB Riva TNT (no sound card).
This installation went much faster (about half an hour), and I chose to install WindowMaker and KDE (in addition to the GNOME default). I figured if GNOME was still too slow, I could try something else.
Again, the installation was straightforward and I had no problems. I got to GNOME and low-and-behold, it’s still slower than molasses. I seriously don’t know how anyone can use a system such as this. Every window takes eons to load, and that’s just the regular file manager. Apps take even longer.
Wait, I take that back. I loaded AbiWord and it loaded right away. However, inside the application, the word wrap didn’t work correctly, and wrapped somewhere around 1.5 screens wide, and I couldn’t find an option that changed that. The browsers were slow, preference panels still ignored my settings (no animations), and even though I installed Galeon and Mozilla, the ‘default’ browser is always lynx.
So I fired up the desktop switching utility again (this time I was sure to stay away from TWM). I first tried KDE, which was slower than GNOME (if that’s possible). The windows are sluggish, startup times are horrid, and frankly, the default fonts are pretty ugly. The ugly part doesn’t bother me much, in all honesty, I just want to get some work done. My main tasks include coding in PHP, testing in a web browser, checking email, and chatting on IRC. These tasks should not bring a 500mhz computer to its knees!
Another major usability problem is the menu system. System Tools, System Settings, Preferences, and Server Settings are all duplicated under the ‘Extras’ menu. Why can’t they be categorized with the rest of the applications? Furthermore, why can’t I easily recategorize them to suit my needs? In Windows, it’s as simple as dragging the menu items around.
So, after a failed KDE trial, I decided to try WindowMaker. I had a little bit of an introduction to WindowMaker in my previously mentioned CRUX install. In CRUX, none of the menu items worked, so it was pretty pointless. I figured RedHat would get it right. When WindowMaker started, it looked exactly like the CRUX install. The menus were full of applications that simply didn’t work (not found errors). I don’t understand why someone would include a bunch of programs in the menus when the programs themselves aren’t even installed.
However, I did look around and I did find programs I was sure were installed. For instance, The GIMP. It worked in GNOME so I knew it was installed… Still got the error, though. The only menu item that worked in WindowMaker was VIM, but why do I need WindowMaker to run a text application? Back to GNOME (this time using ‘switchdesk gnome’ since there was no menu option for it).
Uh-oh, after switching from GNOME to KDE to TWM and back to GNOME again, all the desktop icons disappeared. I still have the menu and I still have the panel, but no desktop icons whatsoever. No home directory, no “start here,” nothing.
Needless to say, I’m not impressed. Sure, the GNOME installation looked good. I like the interface, a lot. I just can’t stand how slow it is.
Although the package management system was much better than the last time I used RedHat (6.1), it’s still not as convenient as going to the author’s web site, downloading a file, and double-clicking it to invoke the installer. Plus, the removal of packages leaves a big dirty mess in my home directory.
I think it’s important for an operating system that’s touted as “user friendly” to be pretty resistant to permanent breakage, especially for a normal user. If a utility has the potential to break or change the entire system (such as my switch to TWM), it either shouldn’t be presented as an option, or there should be a warning message. RedHat shouldn’t assume that everyone who installs their operating system is familiar with Linux, and every change should have an easy fix, should something break.
Finally, was there anything I liked about it? First of all, I chose to install Apache, bind, MySQL, and mod-php. Logged in as root, I was able to find the “services” utility and start MySQL and Apache at boot up (as a service). I was able to configure Apache using the graphical tool – much easier than on Windows, I must say. Galeon wasn’t bad, but why must it require the Mozilla package to run? I realize it’s based on Gecko, but what’s the point of having two complete browsers installed when I only need one?
In conclusion, my experience wasn’t a positive one, and I’m afraid I will be using Windows 98 for quite a while. I really dislike Microsoft and Windows in general, I must admit that it at least lets me get my work done in a timely fashion. I do realize that my two systems aren’t the latest-and-greatest, but for my purposes, they should be sufficient. Unfortunately, I only see the situation getting worse. The major Linux distributions keep getting bigger and bigger, more and more bloated, and ultimately, slower.
HAHAHA.. This is a trip. 99% of linux complaints are from newbies and people who run super low end hardware and complain about the speed. 2 suggestions. 1st– read a book on linux. 2nd– don’t compare win98,ME, 2k, or XP to linux, it isnt the same. How about compare Windows 3.11 to Linux w/ X. Only fair comparison. No one said linux should be easy to learn or run. If you want quick and easy then run microsoft WinbugsXP. You get what you pay for! 😉
Just a small point on the linux zealots. Normally you dont get that much here (personally I have always found that linux zealotry is a touch overstated) but this article appeared over the weekend so different crowd.
You get a lot less sysadmins and professionals and a lot more kids
I just don’t understand why your having such problems. I run a 333mhz pc with 224megs of ram and I can run KDE and Gnome and anything else just as easily as in Windblows 98. I have been running Red Hat since 5.1 or 5.2 on the same pc and never had as much trouble as this poor guy. I was just wondering how much Bill Gate is paying people to spout such negative commentary.
> I was just wondering how much Bill Gate is paying people to spout such negative commentary.
If you do not have anything better to say, do not say such false and stupid accusations. This is not Slashdot where everyone can write whatever comes out of its a$$. Continue this approach of accusing people without evidence and you will get banned. The last sentence of your post was completely unessasery.
I installed RH 8.0 on a PII 266 with 64mb of RAM and it was completely usable.
On my brothers Celeron 500 with 96 Mbs of RAM, RedHat 7.3 actually behaves better than Windows 98. It is far easier to get the printer working under RH then it was with Windows, and I don’t have to worry about the Windows virii affecting my linux installiation.
Just my 2cents.
I don’t know how this editorial ended up being posted on OSNews. I’m generally very impressed with the content, but it would be an understatement to call this article substandard. The fact that this is an editorial makes no difference. Somebody at OSNews thought this editorial deserved publishing. I, obviously disagree.
First off, I’m not a Linux zealot. I don’t even use linux (Win2K). Most of the article is a rant about slowness, but the writer seems completely oblivious to the fact that of the three machines he tried, only one of them met the minimum requirements and NONE of them met the recommended requirements.
Wow – I really don’t want to get into the ‘flame wars’
that have started here, just give another view of
a ‘stupid users’ installation experiences:
These are my experiences with RH8 over the weekend:
During install
* My Matrox Millenium G200 generated unusable X session
for graphical install – found option ‘lowres’ that
solved this. No big deal, but many newbies might think
their gfx card will not work after install and will
give up.
* Focus lost when prompted for root password. After
playing around with RMB menus, back and forward buttons
I finally got focus. Nearly gave up.
After install:
* My broadband connection didn’t get enabled. After
looking around, I tried a ‘dhclient eth0’ manually
which gave me an IP. Redhat init never gives me an
IP, although I set it to DHCP and get address on init
in network settings.
* Firewall – I chose ‘medium’ security during install,
but this always gets set to ‘high’ – no error message
in the dialog box, but changes are never saved. Found
out that ‘lokkit’ is used underneath, running lokkit
from command prompt doesn’t work either. My DHCP
problem may be related to this…
* In http://www.redhat.com, when you click on ‘more info’ there
is a screenshot that shows the panel to the left of
the desktop instead of at the bottom as is the default.
I logged in as a brand new user, moved the panel (in
gnome) to left of screen and logged out. Could not
log back in, panel generates crash (again and again,
since panel auto-restarts).
* I had Mandrake 8.2 in another partition. The Red Hat 8
uses Grub which I’m unfamiliar with – grub would not
load my partitions set up with lilo.
I used my Mandrake rescue disk to get lilo back and I’m
not on Mandrake 8.2 again. I expected more from Red Hat
than just a pretta facade
Please note that I’m not a newbie, but also not a system
admin – I need to get work done and have limited time
to look around for fixes. I’ve now used up more time on
getting RH8 to work than what I needed to get Slackware
installed back in 94.
Jim in Az
Sorry, do a ‘s/not on Mandrake/now on Mandrake’ in my
above post. Lots of other types too, please forgive
me, I can’t type when frustrated
Jim in Az
I use WinXP and BeOS on my home machine, a dual P3 933MHz box with 512MB of memory. I installed RH8 hoping to have a good Linux desktop to work in my J2EE projects with Eclipse and JBoss.
The installation went right, it detected all my hardware, including my ATI Radeon AIW AGP, SBLive and 3C509 cards. The Bluecurve desktop looks pretty nice, the icons are just too big (at 1152×864 on a 17″ monitor). I only missed mp3 and ntfs support.
Everything went right until I started to try out some applications. The system feels too slow. It takes 5 secs to open a Terminal window! The first time I ran the Terminal I thought I didn’t do it correctly because it was taking too long to open the window and there was no GUI feedback, like a busy cursor, to tell me that the app was in fact loading, so I clicked again and again. I made this mistake several times with other apps, until I started to get used to the slowness.
Mozilla takes like 10-15 secs to run, and the fonts aren’t antialiased (I edited /usr/lib/mozilla-1.0.1/pref/unix.js to enable FreeType, but seems that I also have to install TrueType fonts to make it work, dunno, I didn’t try too hard to fix it). I’m getting used to CoolType on LCD screens, so I found the fonts in overall better than before, but still “ugly.”
Later, I installed IBM JDK, Eclipse and JBoss. The Linux/Motif version of Eclipse has problems with fonts (some are rendered with weird artifacts), but the Linux/GTK version works fine (However, the GUI doesn’t look very good, I think there are bugs in the Motif-to-GTK wrapper they seems to be using). I have been using these tools at the job on a P3-750MHz + 160MB machine running Win2K, and it feels faster (the GUI) than my dual-box with RH8.
I’m a bit disappointed, maybe I was expecting too much, but after reading some reviews and seen screenshots, I was hoping to have a BeOS-ish (ie. fast, elegant and good looking) GUI on top of Linux. Seems that I’ll have to wait for the next release.
I am enjoying the debate. I have posted a few things elsewhere that have been taken as disrespectful of linux, specifically my recent experience with Mandrake 9.0 I even promised never to post there again to one of the more rabid linux defenders after being flamed….
My analogy to this discussion after watching Ken Burns “Civil War” on PBS here in L.A. is:
Linux is like the Confederacy… States Rights/ many distros… The Linux people may be tougher, more militant, more dedicated to a cause, smarter, braver, more hard working, more resourceful, much more independent and free sprirted. But that fight is against overwhelming odds in the real world. Limited resources no infrustructure (programs that just download and work). Not enough soldiers getting enough rations (food, money) income to make it a full time job. A real business. The fanatical adherence to the cause is creating intolerance for any other than a pure no-profit incentive model. What is truly worrisome is an unhealthy bit of techno macho snobbery to boot. …XP was Appomattox to (Linux followers:windows crashes) the stability issue is gone….and so the real civil war between OS’s for the desktop is really over. It makes them a bitter lot. Want help from these guys? You might be humililated. Even though your trying to give an honest try to see (hokey pokey) “what’s it’s all about.”
M$ is like the Union….. Bill Gates is not Abraham Lincoln, But the cause of uniting the computing world so everything works reasonably easy and that the most advanced hardware is promoted by that synergy is in some eyes the product of greed. But It has freed alot of slaves of difficult technology where the average Joe who has a life other than playing with computers as their formost hobby can do so many things besides what a person is made to do with computers at work. America is a free market economy based on innovation (At least that what we say before we start a war to erradicate tyrants) I am glad Bill Gates is not in the oil biz. We would be trying to download cars that run on air but have a few (complications)!!!!!!!!
That is democracy I think.
P.S. Communism (soviet union) where the elite tell what is best, not the market place…..
P.S.S. I have just installed Lindows this weekend. Paid the $99 It works reasonably well found all the hardware and IP configuration right out of the box.
I speaking about Desktop only
* My Matrox Millenium G200 generated unusable X session
for graphical install – found option ‘lowres’ that
solved this. No big deal, but many newbies might think
their gfx card will not work after install and will
give up.
Can you be more specific? Did you run it through the test during the install? At what point did it become an “unusable X session”?
* Focus lost when prompted for root password. After
playing around with RMB menus, back and forward buttons
I finally got focus. Nearly gave up.
Again, can you be more specific? What do you mean, “focus lost when prompted for root password”? RMB menus? Are you saying that your mouse was not recognized properly?
* My broadband connection didn’t get enabled. After
looking around, I tried a ‘dhclient eth0’ manually
which gave me an IP. Redhat init never gives me an
IP, although I set it to DHCP and get address on init
in network settings.
Sorry, you’re still being incredibly vague. Are you saying that it didn’t recognize your card? That it didn’t save your settings? That it failed to recognize a DHCPOFFER?
* Firewall – I chose ‘medium’ security during install,
but this always gets set to ‘high’ – no error message
in the dialog box, but changes are never saved. Found
out that ‘lokkit’ is used underneath, running lokkit
from command prompt doesn’t work either. My DHCP
problem may be related to this…
No, your settings are being saved, it’s just that Red Hat’s firewall tool (lokkit or redhat-config-securitylevel) does not read in the existing configuration. Hopefully this will be resolved in an update, but that doesn’t mean it’s not working. Save your settings and run “service iptables status” to confirm.
* In http://www.redhat.com, when you click on ‘more info’ there
is a screenshot that shows the panel to the left of
the desktop instead of at the bottom as is the default.
I logged in as a brand new user, moved the panel (in
gnome) to left of screen and logged out. Could not
log back in, panel generates crash (again and again,
since panel auto-restarts).
I gotta be honest here… you claim to be running into issues that just don’t happen to the “typical” user. All the years I’ve been running Linux/BSD, I’ve never heard of panel crashes like you’re encountering after a simple “panel move”.
* I had Mandrake 8.2 in another partition. The Red Hat 8
uses Grub which I’m unfamiliar with – grub would not
load my partitions set up with lilo.
Let me get this straight… (sorry if I sound like a jerk, but…) you were already running LILO, you’re comfortable with it, but you chose to install Grub anyways? No excuses for Grub– I expect that it should have added it for you (although it may be that it only senses/includes Windows partitions), but I’m starting to question some of your actions.
I used my Mandrake rescue disk to get lilo back and I’m
not on Mandrake 8.2 again. I expected more from Red Hat
than just a pretta facade
Are you saying that you can’t boot to Mandrake anymore? Sorry, your grammar is somewhat unclear (my apologies in advance if English is not your primary language). If this is the case, please post your grub.conf and the Mandrake partition information to the linux.redhat or linux.redhat.install newsgroups, and I’ll try to help you out.
Please note that I’m not a newbie, but also not a system
admin – I need to get work done and have limited time
to look around for fixes. I’ve now used up more time on
getting RH8 to work than what I needed to get Slackware
installed back in 94.
I can appreciate that, but I really have to question your actions or decisions. Not that I’m calling you an idiot (seriously), but I’ve ran into people that just *shouldn’t* be twiddling with their systems, because they always seem to do just enough damage to make their system generally unusable. Don’t feel bad, I used to be the same way with my old ’73 VW Beetle. 😛
-fp
Everything went right until I started to try out some applications. The system feels too slow. It takes 5 secs to open a Terminal window! The first time I ran the Terminal I thought I didn’t do it correctly because it was taking too long to open the window and there was no GUI feedback, like a busy cursor, to tell me that the app was in fact loading, so I clicked again and again. I made this mistake several times with other apps, until I started to get used to the slowness.
This is obviously a case of some sort of misconfiguration on your system. There is no way in hell you’ll convince me this is normal behavior. Check to make sure that your “hostname” is listed in your /etc/hosts file, or resolvable via DNS. Check top to see if you’re swapping (you shouldn’t be) or if some other process is going nuts.
Mozilla takes like 10-15 secs to run, and the fonts aren’t antialiased (I edited /usr/lib/mozilla-1.0.1/pref/unix.js to enable FreeType, but seems that I also have to install TrueType fonts to make it work, dunno, I didn’t try too hard to fix it). I’m getting used to CoolType on LCD screens, so I found the fonts in overall better than before, but still “ugly.”
Uh, nobody’s default Mozilla is antialiased. Nobody claimed it would be. To install True Type fonts, all you have to do is dump them in a “.fonts” directory in your home directory. That’s all.
-fp
Thaks, fuzzyping, for trying to help. I’m not insulted
at all by you questioning my actions – I have to admit
I do a lot of stupid things. And yes, english is not
my native language – sorry for the mistakes in grammar
and spelling.
I wasn’t really looking for answers here, just sharing
my experiences as what might happen to an average user.
But I really appreciate that you take your time to try
to solve my issues!
I’ll try to clarify some things here
“My Matrox Millenium G200 generated unusable X session
for graphical install etc”
Then you choose a regular graphical install, the installer
probes for Gfx card and monitor and finds the correct
info for my system. But then X starts, the display
settings are horribly wrong, I get a tiny area in the
middle of the screen that is flickering and unreadable.
Not a big deal to me, as I said.
“Focus lost when prompted for root password.”
The cursor that appears in text fields were lost, no
keypresses generated any events. Mouse worked fine. I
just had to trick the X server into giving focus to the
correct window by creating right-mouse-button windows
and closing them. Eventually X gave focus to the dialog
box text fields.
“My broadband connection didn’t get enabled.”
Yes, DCHPOFFER failes on init, it also failed after
inacivating and reactivating eth0 in the network settings.
Card recognized fine.
“Firewall – I chose ‘medium’ security during install…”
Thank you *very much* for answering this!!!
“…panel to the left…”
I understand you scepticism. I really want to know
if this happen to other people. It was basically the
first thing I did after logging in as a user.
“I had Mandrake 8.2 in another partition…”
Ok, this was a really stupid move. But I knew I could
get lilo back on and I wanted to see what grub had to
offer, since I was unfamiliar with it.
I *can* still use my Mandrake since I used the Mandrake
rescue disc to put lilo back on, so I can be productive
again
Thank you very much again, fuzzyping, for
providing a helpful answer if that had not been the case.
Jim in Az
Brian: If you have an ATI video card you might try using the old MACH64 video drivers. That’s made a difference for me in the past.
You can make Redhat work for you if you follow some of the advice you’ve been given here. Disable all unneeded services, including gdm (or xdm, or kdm)–you don’t have any RAM to spare. Disable animations and sounds in KDE and GNOME. Explore lightweight alternatives. Configure logging. Recompile with optimisations as needed. And look to Redhat for support: that’s what you paid for.
If you were to give it a go and report back in a few weeks, that would make for an interesting read.
Dude,
You must be checking you colon b/c your head is obviously up your ass!… I am writing this on an IBM ThinkPad 600 (266 MHz, 256 Meg Ram, 4 GB Hard Drive) and yes i am running RedHat 8.0 with none of the sluggishness that you mention… I don’t understand what your problem is
Thats one of the funniest editorals I have ever read.I really needed that.Still LOL.
Linux : Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.
” I was hoping to have a BeOS-ish (ie. fast, elegant and good looking) GUI on top of Linux. Seems that I’ll have to wait for the next release. ”
You’ll have to wait a lot longer than that
>> You must be checking you colon b/c your head is obviously up >> your ass!
Oh Dear, Eugenia I think you need a slashdot style moderation system to mod some of these people to -1 so we don’t have to see them
Oh and if we wanted some helpful answers we could surf with threshold at 4.
And Drizato, you have 256 Megs of RAM, this dude had 64-128MB of RAM. His machine is _obviously_ going to run worse, it doesn’t matter if he has a faster processor because it’s spending all it’s time swapping to disk.
And to all the people comparing linux desktop performance to windows, Linux is _obviously_ going to be slower – it has a lot more work to do! Linux has to run XFree86 client/server with all it’s features and complexity, and then it has to run a desktop environment on top of that. Not to mention that these desktop environments (GNOME/KDE) are much more configurable and flexible than Windows.
In about 2 or so years I predict that directfb will have enough features/stability/hardware support that it will be able to be used for desktop machines (and embedded devices). And this will be a much better comparison to windows. I’ve been reading the architecture for it, and it’s really coding “to the metal” so to speak. There is minimal overhead between the WM and the graphics card driver, and it supports alpha channel blending, etc _in hardware_ (something the windows GUI is yet to do).
Directfb also seems to be geared for gaming as well (there’s already an openGL module being written for it), and there doesn’t seem to be any restrictions in applications asking for fullscreen mode at any supported resolution/colour mode… this means if u run your desktop at 1280×1024 and want to run ut2003 at 1600×1200 fullscreen, then it will do it, unlike X. It should also be easy to dynamically change resolution/colour modes without having to restart the graphical system – and just tell the WM that the res has changed and it should re-position the windows so they’re not outside the range.
It would be interesting to develop a 1 CD debian (or slack) distro, that is basically “automatic install” like win9x, and only installs directfb (no X), and icewm on top of it, plus the directfb-enabled GTK libraries for running gnome apps. It would also be nice if QT was ported to directfb so KDE apps could be run as well. I predict a memory-optimized distro like this would be a perfect replacement for win9x on older machines, and would probably run in 32Meg of RAM (perhaps less).
And Brian, do us a favour and run icewm or xfce or something, and turn off all the services and things that you don’t need. Also try running a less-than-state-of-the-art distro, like mandrake 8.1, and update the system with all the patches. You should have a pretty solid desktop then, and it should run pretty fast. I’ve got mdk 8.1 + icewm running on a pr233 with 40MB of RAM, and it’s really really fast. Faster than win98 on the same box actually (maybe not after a fresh install of win98, as the performance degrades over time). A non-journaling filesystem like ext2 might be better as well.
Just my thoughts.. (wow i should be working..)
Can in under 2000 words, explain to again what the point of your post was? As it stands now, the post just seems like an incoherent plastering of random linux propaganda that you decided to hap-hazardly cut and paste into the text box as a substitue for a real post.
OK OK OK! I started off with a point, but then added other stuff. Points were as follows:
– too many trolls posting abusive messages, need (better) moderation system
– directfb is cool, and a desktop distro based on it would be extra cool
– Brian should turn off unneeded services, and use a lightweight desktop/apps
And give me a break, i have to write a 100 page report for uni and the internet is distracting me
Although i could’ve written about 5 pages in the time i wasted writing that post 
Can someone explain to me how useful it really is to have multiple posts of:
I don’t understand why you have problem with Linux, I can RH 8.0 just fine on my system and I’m using:
CPU: 8086
RAM: 128k
So obviously OSNews is just trying to bash linux.
C’mon why you actually try helping the guy out with his problems or at the very least if your not so benevolent have a discussion as to what the problem may be for your own benefit.
Have you ever considered trying BeOS for a change?
Mr. Doe, you forgot the alarming number of people suggesting that he use BeOS.
Um yeah, instead of using a popular and supported operating system like Linux, use an obscure OS that nobody uses where the company that owns it has gone out of business (well i think they’re alive only to sue Micro$oft).
You need more than 128 MB RAM. There is no need to upgrade your CPU. It will do the job fine. Even on the RedHat site, they have recommended 192 MB. Without RAM even a 700Mhz PIII is slow while running GNOME/KDE.
Use the following tweaks :
1. Put in 256 MB RAM and 512 MB swap
2. Make sure that dma settings are on using hdparm
3. For the nvidia card install NVIDIA drivers. There is a huge difference in performance.
4. Shutdown unwanted services. Redhat Linux loves to startup all services by default.
5. If using KDE, disable antialiasing. KDE also has Kpersonliser which allows you to choose the amount of eye-candy you want.
6. If all the above works then dont shutdown your machine for as long as possible or ever. The Linux kernel caches all applications in RAM. After the first launch of any application, any subsequent launch will be much faster.
Toshiba 2595CDT is NOT a computer but a piece of overpriced garbage, an ENRON of of PC industry! WorldCom of PC industry as we all agree was COMPAQ!
Toshiba makes very good laptops, one of the best PC laptops around. Compaq also makes very good computers. I’m willing to trade my HP for my brother’s Compaq Evo any day (even if the Evo is cheaper and have less specs), and yes, both are bought pre-merger.
How long one can tolerate windows 9x ME the most viewed Blue Screen of Death?
Than use Windows 2000/XP for crying out load!
Here we go again you are on another Celeron! This time also with 128 MB RAM, not enough to run efficiently any windows. Remind you you need at least 256 MB ram to run ANY Windows!
Windows 98 DON’T need 256MB. Let me repeat that for you: WINDOWS 98 DON’T NEED 256MB. Windows XP needs that much to be usable, but NOT WINDOWS 98, which the author uses. Since the author didn’t tell what version of Win98 he is using, I’m guessing the first one, so it is 4 years old. 4 years ago, 256MB of RAM is as rare as 1GB of RAM nowadays.
Try Linux on a real CPU and not Celeron!
LOL, I have use Celeron 400MHz for 2 years, it is sufficient to run Linux at speeds a thousand times what the author claims. Celeron is not the problem here, OpenOffice.org won’t get slowed down to 5 minutes startup with a small cache.
How bout some proof, ma’am?
It for sure outperformed Windows 2000 PRO which I selected as the best OS ever released by WinTel Mafia.
With that amount of RAM, *prrf*, obviously.
Hardware should be certified to run all OSs (Windows and LINUX at least), but we should be NEVER forced to buy hardware with pre-loaded OS we don’t want or need.
When you go out and choose your hardware, you HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO BUY A PC BUNDLED WITH WINDOWS! There are plenty of Linux-only OEMs, like Pogo Linux. You have the ultimate power as a consumer: not to buy a machine with Windows. If you buy a machine with Windows, both bitch about it.
Also, both bitch about the hardware not being compatible with Linux. Wanna buy a Linux-compatible system? Find an OEM that does support Linux, or choose your hardware wisely. What you are asking is similar to asking all OEMs motherboards must be compatible with Intel’s and AMD’s processors.
Selling any hardware with preloaded OS against our will shall be considered nothing else but predatory monoplolistic criminal act of felony and FRAUD!
No. It is completely legal and ethical. The hardware comes with the software. Don’t want the software? Don’t buy the hardware for crying out loud. It is like crying foul when Nissan dumped the V5 engine for the V6.
Stop acting stupidly. You have the ultimate power of a consumer, not to buy the fucking hardware.
When running WINDOWS you must BUY extra software. When buying RedHat 8 Linux you get around 1000 softwares free with this distribution.
Right now, in my mind, you are a Slashdot troll. You are just one step from being a Usenet troll.
Most of that “1,000” application have similar capablities as most freeware on Windows (try http://www.download.com ot http://www.tucows.com bud)
Do not try now to screw GUI LINUX in retaliation because you were screwed by WinTel mafia.
Don’t screw Microsoft and Windows in retaliation because you were screwed by the biased press.
One step away from Usenet troll…..
Anyway, replying to this extreemely trollish comment pretty much replies to most of the other comments. Have a good day.
Eugenia, how much more comments before it breaks OSNews records?
Seems to me to be the most comments in under two days….
The record is 300.
You should submit this story to slashdot with a link to the comments section on the front page
My experience with Redhat 8 has been entirely different. First of all, I woudl recommend using more RAM. Linux tends to be more RAM centric then it is processor centric. Though I wouldn’t recommend running it on a celeron.
However, the only issue I have run into so far which is actually a pretty major issue in my point of view but it is the only issue is that my cd burner doesn’t seem to work properly. In previous versions of RedHat (every version of RedHat from 6 – 7.3) my burner worked flawlessly without any kernel recompiles or anything. Now it seems to fail miserably. I haven’t had a lot of time to investigate the cause yet. However, many of the problems I encountered in the two betas NULL and Limbo have been resolved in the final release. I know that many of the issues that remain in the 8.0 release of Redhat will be resolved by 8.2 so I’m not that worried. I love the new interface personally. it’s much easier to use.
I would have to agree that the new interface is unnecessarily bloated. However, that appears to be the direction all Operating systems are headed towards. As has been mentioend by others Windows XP is also very bloated. I personally found Windows XP to be slower on my Celeron 600mhz with 256 megs of ram then Redhat Limbo. As for the final release of Redhat, I haven’t really tried it on my celeron so I am not sure how it would react. Redhat 8 does work just fine on my PIII 550 with 384 megs of Ram, however. And is not slow in the least. (unless you are talking about Open Office which is just friggen slow period, I hope that more effort is put into speeding up Open Office). As for user friendliness, RedHat 8 rocks. I was able to install RedHat 8 without making a single intelligent choice during the entire process. Basically, the only part of the install where I had to even make a decision was when I selected my root password and setup my user account. Otherwise, Redhat 8 detected all my hardware and installed it. The menus could be improved a little. I would have to agree with the editorial that there is a great deal of duplication in the menus. I think the preferences, system tools, and system settings menus should be merged. However, outside of Redhat 8 screwing up my ability to burn and the less then perfect menu system everything else rocks.
It’s funny because this thread has reminded me of being in college and asking some Computer Science major a question about troubles I had with my computer. The two typical responses I got were either a stream of technical jargon or I was basically called a retard.
Nice going guys. Instead of pointing out that there might be some problems with his hardware or his setup you chose to basically call him an idiot, a liar and even a pawn of Bill Gates. This type of fanboy mentality is precisely the reason that Linux is having a hard time breaking into mainstream and maintains a “geek only” image.
Frankly this does not make me want to go out and buy or download the latest distro just so when I have a problem I am told that I need to recompile my kernel or that I must obviously be an idiot if I can’t get it to work.
OpenOffice is slower on Windows too, so no need to complain for GNU/Linux.
I use GNU/Linux extensively at my workplace and I’m kinda happy with OpenMotif. It just beats the hell outta GNOME or KDE. Except that its not very easy to use like these cuz its a window manager and not a session manager I suppose.
All we need is a user-friendly fast desktop (like BeOS ofcourse) for GNU/Linux and/or *BSDs. Hope I would start writing one sometime later. Anybody for it? 😉
The wording in this “anonymous” post sounds very familiar to me. In fact I thought I was reading some commentary from a known “former” (possibly a current) Microsoft employee who has been trolling numerous linux newsgroups and mailing lists for some time. I may be wrong, but this has all of the earmarks of one of his posts (tired of Microsoft and can’t wait to get away, slow responsiveness from the UI, apps not playing well, not able to locate settings, etc). Sorry, I’ll leave him unnamed in case I’m incorrect. But anyone that was on some of the SuSE or Mandrake lists in the last couple of years may recognize the writing, as might some who used various linux/unix newsgroups over the last year. He also trolled Redhat mailing lists for a bit, though not for very long.
Got Lindows?
Simply, if you want a nice windows type environment that simple with nice features and no server apps get Lindows.If you Need Linux for some server apps (because its not good for a desktop os) try Suse 8.1
The End.
Well, just manage to install it yesterday, it works just fine for me, except I can’t locate any software to edit the menus, is there anyone know which one to use for editing the menus??
I also run RedHat (7.3) on a Pentium II 233 Mhz with 128 MB RAM. I have absolutly no trouble. It doesn’t even scratch my swap…
try to type “man tar” on KDE-terminal,konsole, and then u will got funny looking symbol.
check this out:
<a HREF=”http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~isia2/snapshot1.png“>
Glitches KDE Konsole on RH8
I’m not sure what he is doing wrong because on my celeron 300a
with 128mb ram rehat 8.0 works like a charm, and is at least as fast as Windows Me (never bothered with XP on that machine). I sound to me like he has some kind of misconfigured hostname or other networking related problem. (both X and Gnome-Orbit depend on corect network configuration). He sound try configuring networking after install, and using the default hostname.
Wow! So many comments. But did any one realize that Linux did actually *not* crash even after five minutes — succesfully loading up Writer!!!
Such a necked up system configuration would have crashed *any* windows, Xp or not. Wow!
Redhat Linux and of course linux, have a very small user base. So not much QA can be done before it is let out the door. Every possilbe chipset/mb+cpu+memory etc combinations can not be tested fully. But it does seems very isolated (I hope so). But does this post really deserve a space in OS News? It is after all a Red Hat review (and a Red Hat issue) and the author failed to try to get support from Red Hat even though he paid for the OS. Red Hat might have easily resolved the issue, instead of going up on an IRC channel to get help.
It damages the reputation of Red Hat Linux, as Red Hat might have been able to solve it for him, and he never gave them the chance. If he really did wanted to so badly to quit windows and use linux, that was the most logical thing to do. Sorry, but it is as bad as everyone says it is.
Hi all,
Linux will never a desktop OS as long as XWindow will remain
the root of the GUI.
Check: http://www.art.net/studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-window…
I had the same experience trying to run Linux RedHat 4/5 (
and also debian) on 486/32Mo: Win95 was fully usable while
Linux spent its time swapping to disk…
=> I see that some 4 years and 800Mips later things
haven’t changed
Regards,
Nogfx.
PS: If you wanna see a really responsive OS, just try
AmigaOS or one of its clone:
-MorphOS: http://www.morphos.de PowerPC AmigaOS binary compatible OS
-AROS: Open-Source AmigaOS rewrite for x86
http://www.aros.org
I’m not going to read all the way through the forum because there’s over a hundred messages, but I noticed a few people saying that a 400/500mhz is not enough speed to run any modern OS (and challenged the person to try XP). I have XP running on an AMD K6-2 400mhz (okay DOES have 290+mb RAM), 4gb hard drive, 8mb Matrox Mystique (2D-only), etc. It runs *fine*. In fact after being so impressed I’m thinking of seeing if it will run on my dad’s 300mhz PII. Obviously this machine won’t be running Grand Theft Auto 3, but for web-based stuff (like the article author was looking to do) it’s totally acceptable.
I plan on trying Red Hat 8.0 at some point. However, I don’t hold out hope for it … I’ve been trying Red Hat distro’s since 5 and still have yet to keep it around for more than a week. But that’s fodder for flame and another article!
When I try to install RedHat 8.0, I have to do the
boot= linux askmethod
for anything to be displayed, I have tried the ‘linux lowres’ and still no picture appear.
When I do the ‘askmethod’ install it *stops* after I set the keyboard to ‘en’.
What should I do:
I have a PIII-450
256 RAM
Riva TNT2 graphics card
Neil, Red Hat 8 is decidedly different from the past. It looks like you have enough processor power, RAM and disk space for it. This one’s worth a try.
juste disable theming, it should improove your desktop experience
at least under KDE.
maybe you can try a lighter distribution, like Slackware.
> This is obviously a case of some sort of misconfiguration > on your system. There is no way in hell you’ll convince
> me this is normal behavior. Check to make sure that
> your “hostname” is listed in your /etc/hosts file, or
You are right, I configured correctly the host and domain name and now Terminal opens in less than 2 seconds, it’s much better, but after running some apps, RH8 starts getting slow again, but not as much as before (I’ve enough memory, so it’s not a disk trashing problem).
Thanks for the tip! I’d had never figured out that such thing would slow down the whole machine.
> Uh, nobody’s default Mozilla is antialiased. Nobody
> claimed it would be. To install True Type fonts, all you
Yes, I was just expecting it to be antialised by default because almost all the other apps I tried out had antialiased text.
> have to do is dump them in a “.fonts” directory in your
> home directory. That’s all.
Thanks … 1 less trip to google
that not true that you can’t run newer os on older computer
i have a pIII intel celeron 400mhz and i run win xp on it , the only application that run slow (take 1 or 2 min to load) it Vs.Net so don’t tell me that older computer can run new os that only mean that linux is’nt good as it’s should be to be called an operating system
that not true that you can’t run newer os on older computer
i have a pIII intel celeron 400mhz and i run win xp on it , the only application that run slow (take 1 or 2 min to load) it Vs.Net so don’t tell me that older computer can run new os that only mean that linux is’nt good as it’s should be to be called an operating system
I’ve upgraded three Linux machines to 8.0 and had previously installed null (the last 8.0 beta) on another one. The perforamnce of each machine is markedly quicker than with its previous 7.2 or 7.3 version of Linux. The machine on which the beta was installed was a 400MHz Pentium II w/256M memory. Mozilla takes fifteen seconds or so to start on that machine (which I consider to be a very long time), but overall the machine was very usable. I did not have to do any tweaking to get this performance.
This is just my anecdotal experience, your mileage may vary.
PS… Disabling font smoothing might improve performance a bit on slower machines. Use the Preferences->Font control.
Ok, I am a new to Linux, but I have installed every mandrake since 8.2 both on a laptop and 2 desktops (read Mandrake9 beta1,2..Rc1,2,3) All have worked ok yes, there have been problems but all important functions worked. I installed it with win2000 and winxp. Then I wanted to try Red Hat so I downloaded 7.3 and installed it on my 1G PIII, ups after install I booted up and all I got was a lot of 99 across the screen. After a repair of XP it was the same, a lot of 99 across the screen. Then I installed Mandrake 9 final, and wopty, I got my XP back.
Then I tried to install Red Hat 7.3 on my other desktop(intel P3 450mhz, asus p2b-f, gforce200mx, intel pro100 netcard) I installed on a clean HD. All I got was error when the installer wanted to start anaconda, and a kind ask for reboot. And it is the same with RedHat 8.0. A try on my other desktop with the same hd, all vent well!!!.
So now I can test RH8, and it looks nice, better than mandrake, but the fonts is still not clear, my eyes get tiered, this and this rpm shit(sorry but I am not English, and this was the only word I could think of) is in my opinion the to biggest problems in getting Linux to the public. Why can I not get an “EXE” file and just install it, I can not understand this, could someone not tell me?
I have made come Microsoft vc++ programs and to be sure all can run them all I need to do is to make a static link to mfc dll’s and all is included in the exe file. Why is it not possible in linux?
Run black box as a window manager, it is QUITE fast. I use it for web, irc, ssh, and php.
I think your real problem is code bloat. Linux and *BSD used to run great on 8MB RAM systems including X. Of course we didn’t have all the bells and whistles that we do today.
Rather than full Red Hat try a more minimal distribution and don’t install anything you don’t need. My best computer is a P166 MMX machine with 128 MB RAM. It is no barn-burner but by carefully selecting what I install it is useable. Instead of Gnome or KDE I installed Xfce. Xfce is very useable and much smaller and faster than the larger alternatives. I’m running Gentoo which allowed me to only install the bare minimum on my system. For a web browser I’m using Mozilla. Mozilla is not fast on my system but it is fairly useable once it finally loads (takes a few minutes). I installed OpenOffice but truthfully it is not useable. I have been using TeX/Latex for word processing/typesetting. TeX runs fine but I don’t think any WYSIWYG type program would run adequately on my setup.
Think small is good.
I think all Linux users need to take a step back from being zelots. I have a 750mhz ThinkPad with 192meg normally running XP (which flies along).. Having tried RedHat 7.3, 8.0, Suse 8.0, OpenBSD (which ran faster than any of the linux distros) and now testing Lycoris on it, Linux is just plain slow. You hear people saying to recompile this, modify this etc. The fact is, no desktop user should have to do anything like this.. It should just work. Here at work we have win2k running on old PII300 with 128meg ram and its very usual. Install any linux distro and the same machine and its like watching everything in slow motion
I installed redhat 8 on my athlon xp and it flew, everything loaded brilliantly, instant response. I then installed it on a celeron 500 laptop and it still ran not too bad. I dont know what you were doing, but you sure stuffed it up. RedHat may be a bit bloated when it comes to Gnome or KDE, but by gingo it is still dam good.
well you just dont know how to configure it properly. If you cant install a redhat or suse out of the box on a 750mhz thinkpad (unless it is a 750 celeron in which case its crap) and make it run quick something is wrong. I could install redhat 7.2 on a pentium 2 266 with 128mb ram and it was like a dream. Saying that linux is just plain slow is a pretty big call on your part. What you should really say is “i like a micro$soft os that doesnt bug me to tweak anything and does whatever it wants”. And if a desktop user does not want to recomplile anything or modify any settings then they do not deserve to use linux.
Thats my 2 cents.
See mathew, you have just proved the point about linux users. Any neagtivity against linux, and you blame people for not knowing how to do things right. Since my back ground is with Solaris & CISCO, i dont think i’m your average user and dont know what i’m doing.
I have 3 identical systems. (Pentium2 266 128mb ram, riva tnt2, 10GB Hdd ) one has win2000, one has red hat 7.3 and the last one has win98SE. The linux box is by far the fastest, and most stable The only problem I have ever had is that I can’t get the open GL drivers for the Riva to work properly. I run KDE and have nothing but praise for it.All the apps load within a few seconds and it is my primary internet connection ( I run it as a proxy for the other 2 ) I would change all the boxes to Linux if I could ( unfortunantly I need the win2000 box to run 3D studio Max, Bryce, Flash, fireworks, and dreamweaver as I am a web designer and my wife like win98 cause it’s what she’s used to although she’s coming round )
The next fastest ( and not too far behind either ) is win2000 although it is no where near as stable as Linux. By far the slowest box is the Win98 one, it is also the most unstable.
I hope this helps
Brian Delaney
Try doing a command line top and see what’s hogging your resources. It’s probably something not configured properly because the person devoting his own time to helping write linux code didn’t taylor Redhat 8 for a celeron 500a laptop. This “review” is a plead for help.
I’m posting this message from a PII 450 running Red Hat 8.0 using the default Gnome desktop. Not only is it running decently fast, it’s running close to the same speed as Win XP which is also installed on this computer.
Of course I could be wrong
I have RH 7.3 running on a Celeron and it smells like roses my dear friends! Just try to install it again!
I installed Redhat twice on my system and was increadibly slow, like a 386. ON AN ATHLON 1.2GHZ!!! Therefore I got the impression that RedHat just sucks. So I never installed it again. Now I use Debian (from a netinstall) which I built up from the bare Debian distro (the net install 30 megs) myself. I run it on a 150 mhz laptop and use IceWM, it runs perfectly fine.
UNIX/Linux Operating Systems graphical interfaces are not only a GUI. There is an X server that is running in the background which takes up a lot of computer resources. X server is a wonderful thing to have and use, but it is not used by most new UNIX/Linux desktop users. This is why the ‘GUI’ is slow. For more information on X http://www.x.org/
Mandrake is only a fraction slower than win98. Its is infinitely more stable. Windows is almost unusable. However, Linux is still more difficult to configure than M’soft windows but manageable. I dual boot, but almost never use the windows partition. Also, M’drake 9.0 is much faster than 8.2.
To those saying “run windows on the same hardware, you’ll get the same crappy performance”: I run Windows 2000 on a Pentium (1) 100MHz. 1..0..0..MHz. With 128 megs of RAM, and not much else in terms of hardware. And… it runs fine. It’s responsive. I can surf the web. I can edit text and even run Word with no problems…
SO HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THAT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS LINUX INSTALL???
Get over it, some Micro$oft products work well for ‘normal’ users.
1) this lozier really doesn’t “have much experience using Linux on the desktop” and it shows
2) you “CAN get away from Windows98” but nobody said it would take zero % mental effort
in the meantime, Windows98 is a perfect place for you !
Moby, You are the kind of person who gives Linux a bad name and stops Windows users from sparing any ‘mental effort’ in the first place.
Linux isn’t easy and it’s not going to be so for quite some time. If you managed to get it running ‘well’ on your system then give yourself a pat on the back and help those wishing to migrate but don’t post pointless rants that only show your mental age.
This a little OT but I thought discussions were limited to 250 posts ?
I had a super slow mandrake 9 install that would take as long for windows to popup as what you’re going through. Here’s what may be wrong.
My hostname was blah.2y.net and I specified it during the install, however that domain didn’t yet resolve to my local machine (it actually never will, since I’m behind a nat router) so when it would try to start applications it would contact the socket, you guessed it, blah.2y.net which didn’t work. So applications would have to wait for the dns to time out. Adding a line like: “127.0.0.1 blah.2y.net” into /etc/resolv.conf fixed it and now applications are speedier than ever.
I’d try this before you continue to slam a distro (I was having the problem with slowness and I joined the mandrake support channel and someone had helped me fix it within 2 minutes)
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This is a reasonable review for a Linux newbie. (Which the author states that s/he is.) Windows people want a GUI, heck – most people want a GUI. Perhaps RH is not an appropriate distro for new users (as in we/they want it all working easily), but the review/editorial makes good points.
On a 500Mhz Celeron, with only 64 MB Ram, RH 8 works fine. The GUI is admittedly slow(er) than if I had more RAM, but it’s still usable. Even while running 72 Processes, including Apache 2.0.40 for intranet page serving, it’s good. Seems the author was biased against linux or RH to begin with. But that’s just my opinion.
err..I ment /etc/hosts
I mean – I wish Linux was more accessible. The sooner it just installs and works the sooner it will start getting widespread uptake. It’s not about Windows v the world… it’s about automation of low level configuration. Normal people just don’t want to do that stuff.
The slowness problem is almost certainly fixed by doing :
/sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
I installed it on my laptop Mobile Pentuim (1) 266 and it blazes. Something is wrong with your machine. Either your video drivers are being detected or selected incorrectly or the network card isn’t working or something. Hmmmm…..
Did you enable all 4 lines in /etc/sysconfig/harddisks ? If not, you’ll never get dick for performance. Those 4 lines come commented for safety and maximum compatiblity.
They are:
USE_DMA=1
MULTIPLE_IO=16
EIDE_32BIT=3
LOOKAHEAD=1
Needless to say, without DMA, lookahead and 32bit disk access, your machine will run like crap.
>> Why don’t you install Windows XP on these computers
>
>I have most of my OSes on a dual Celeron 533, and XP is fastest than all (except maybe BeOS on most cases, but not all).
>I installed Mandrake 9.0 yesterday. It is as slow as the >other of my Linuxes under KDE on that specific, and it is >even now compiled with GCC 3.2. I don’t know why. WinXP >works just fine on that machine. And I have 4 more >Linuxes there, and they are all slower than XP. And BeOS >of course.
Have you ever considered turning off some un-needed services? Slackware and SuSE ship with virtually all network services disabled and get a pretty decent performance improvement because of it. If you want a comparable experience in XP, turn on the Personal Web Server and all of the network daemons. After your system has started to crawl, take another look at disabling services that aren’t needed (APMD if you aren’t using a laptop, Apache and so forth) and THEN give it another go.
I would also make sure that you are using 32-bit Disk I/O. That can also potentially improve things. The reason that it is not turned on by default by most distros is because they want to be as backward compatible with older hardware as possible. Your DMA flag for disk access may also need to be turned on.
All of these suggestions speed up a default Linux install significantly.
I have installed RedHat 8.0 on a 266 Mhz laptop with 64 Meg of Ram, and for the most part I am impressed. Mind you, I am a very experienced Linux user, but even my wife has been impressed. We’ve given up on using this piece of hardware with any thing else but Linux.
In many ways RedHat 8.0 is faster than the previosu 7.3. That said, there is a certain period of use required to “stabalize” performance. A process named UPDATEDB consumes an inordinate amount of clock cycles, for each environment change encountered. Once that process runs its course, overall performance matches any of the earlier Windows versions on this hardware.
Hardware misconfigurations will wreak havoc on any operating system. All versions of Windows will “lock up” if any of its necessary network connections are lost (whether hardware related or not). This is an issue that needs to be addressed better by ALL OS vendors.
For those who are looking at taking the leap to Linux, be assured that there is a large community of users who are willing to help. I recommend that anyone trying a new OS, identify individuals who can be used as a resource for these issues. You will be glad you did. Also, if you purchase a version of RedHat, you get free installation assistance. Take advantage of it. No one can make an installation that is obvious to all. Just recognize that you are not alone.
I had 3GB of free space on my HD so I loaded RH 8. The machine is an old K6-III 450 with 128MB of ram, HD is ata-33. Nothing fancy, it dual boots with win2k pro.
I have been surfing the net with the thing for at least a week and it runs just fine. I don’t understand why a Smeleron would run so slow?
Anyway, I have not experienced any of the slowness your talking about. Guess I’m just lucky.
Cya
I’ve been in the industry since Windows 2.0 and I keep seeing the same mistake, over and over again. Completely clueless people investing into .0 software and expecting perfection. I also note with humour something that goes hand in hand with this, completely clueless people trying to install .0 software on equipment that doesn’t meet even the minimum system requirements, as was the case with this person and his laptop.
I haven’t played with Redhat 8, but I’m a big fan of 7.2 and 7.3, which does “just work” for me and everyone I know who uses it. I probably won’t be purchasing Redhat 8, until at least 8.1. I’m an RHCE and this is what I practice, so you newbies out there would do yourselves and the poor support people who have to deal with your whining and complaining some trouble, and not buy software that has not been tried and tested in the “real world” yet. This isn’t just about Linux .0 releases either, ALL software at version .0 is going to have some problems that wasn’t caught in testing. There are only so many hours in the day and only so much a human staff of testers can do. That’s the reality of software development, you would all do well to set your expectations accordingly.
>The hardware used for the article will not run a MODERN OS at a usable speed.
Hey, I use a celeron 400 and XP works much much faster than linux. So I really think that all of these put-downs in regard to the celeron are way out of line with reality. No I can’t play the very latest games, but I can get a lot of decent work donw. And yes, I do prefer Linux even though it is slower for working on the net both for security and personal preferences. I do wish it were faster though. I stay away from both KDE and Gnome and use blackbox which works great. If I have to do any serious editing work, I’ve about given up working on Linux — OpenOffice is just simply too damn slow.
I installed RH8 on a Gateway PC with a PIII 500Mhz and 128mb ram. It wouldnt detect my sound card and didnt set up my video card properly either. Once I sorted both those problems out I found the crippled version of KDE to be very sluggish. So I deleted RH8 and installed Mandrake 9. What a dream! It installed real smoothly and detected all my hardware no problem. KDE 3.0.3 also runs really fast, which is what I’ve come to expect from linux. I havent even re-compiled the kernel yet so I’ll be interested to see how much faster it is after that.
Seriously, you run a new OS on a dinosaur computer and cry about it performing poorly? Christ.
RedHat 7.2 and Mandrake 9.0 run just as smooth as silk on this box (which has an 800 mhz proc) but if I stuck it on the junker box (with its 330 MHZ proc) it would run slow as molasses in January. Common sense. The only OS I could see running fast on a slow box like that would be BeOS or any GUI-less OS.
I really don’t see how someone can respond to this article by saying that his hardware won’t run any modern OS. I am currently using a PII266MHZ, and it runs fine. Gnome 1.4/KDE 3.0 from RedHat 7.2. No problems. Sure, OOffice takes a few seconds to load, but it’s not unusable. Something else must be seriously wrong – either with his installation, his hardware og simply his definition of unusably slow. I don’t buy the crap of ‘YOU CAN’T EXPECT A MODERN OS TO RUN ON YOUR HARDWARE’. That is just not true.
I have RH 7.2 and one time when eth0 crashed, I had the same types of problems you did with eternal loading times. Gnome didn’t like the DHCP configuration (I’ve got a cable modem) and I had to go through a pain-in-the-ass configuration sequence to get it running again. My ultimate solution was to just use Afterstep, which is better for low-RAM machines, and much more configurable. I just have a black desk-top with a pager, and use terminals to run apps. I’ve configured the keyboard to speed things up. I’ve yet to see a drawback, and it’s more productive for me. It seems to me that RH’S priorities are f***ed up: they should have concentrated on making sure that multimedia and network services run smoothly straight out of the box, office apps boot quickly and produce good fonts, and not on producing some RAM-monster desktop.
On my laptop it blazes and is noticably faster than 7.3. My laptop is a PII-300 with 256 MB RAM and a 6 GB drive.
This is the stock install, no kernel tweaks, no removal of services, nothing. I simply loaded it and it works.
I’m running the stock GNOME 2.0 with OO and Evolution and Mozilla. It rocks, with fast rendering. OO is about as slow as Office 2K to load, but works just fine once loaded.
Dekkard,
AFAIK, laptops are one of the most trickiest computer types to install Linux in. I guess sure most of his problems are related to using a laptop instead of a desktop computer.
Really? Well, bugger me then, because I’ve installed Mandrake 7.2 and 9.0 on a Compaq Armada M700 laptop with little trouble at all.
In the case of MDK 7.2 the only 2 issues I had was an incorrect identification of the video card (easily corrected at the time of install) and the usual non-functioning Winmodem (fixed after install by going to linmodems.org and getting the Lucent driver). Mandrake 9.0 was even less painfull, having only the Winmodem issue to resolve and the OS installed in less than an hour.
As to Brian’s laptop experience with RH 8.0, I’m not at all surprised. Although I don’t blame the Celeron (like quite a number here have), I do blame inadequate RAM both in the laptop and on the video card. IMO, RedHat should have also mentioned a bare minimum of an 8M video card as well. There’s NO WAY Gnome or KDE is going to run well with only 2.5M of video RAM, period.
I think this review is saying a lot. And most of the the people here are dodging the issue by hiding behind technical jargon.
The fact of the matter is linux contributers have turned a blind eye to usability in favor of more “glorious” pursuits such as raw performace and features. It seems “fastest” X is better than X “that is actually usable by anyone but me” has become the mantra the linux community. In fact, it appears almost everyone’s defensive reaction is toward the performace issues, not the fact he broke the installation.
You people need to face up to the fact Linux is design poorly with respect to usability. I would be surprised if usability testing is done at all on most of this stuff. Crash testing, sure. Performance testing, probably. Usability testing? It seems if they did the person doing it should be fired for sucking it up so bad.
Red Hat said they want to capture the desktop market, well they’re going to have to do more than just make it look good. People have to be able to accomplish more FASTER and EASIER. A lot of good anti-aliased icons and faster load times are going to do me if I have to spend hours or days reading man pages and coming to these message boards to get anything to friggin work.
I’m just disappointed you people can’t figure that much out and I have to write this at the bottom of over 250 totally useless posts.
I track FreeBSD-STABLE on
a pcchips cheapo mobo with a
celeron 366 and 192 meg and a
16 meg ati Xpert agp card
and a 20 gig seagate.
KDE is slow but with windowmaker and its GUI config
I have multiple desktops ,and icon manager and good
responsiveness.
With an ati Rage 128 32Meg card and DRI things are
actually quite snappy.
I had the same slow gui problem (both Gnome & KDE) with Redhat 7.x. After I ran Xconfigurator (or whatever it was called–I can’t find it in 8.0), and increased the resolution from 1024×768 to 1280×1024, both gui’s were faster than snot! Does this make any sense to anyone???
I do not know if writer of this article gets payed by Microsoft or this is his honest oppinion ? Well, I ran in the past RedHat 7.0 (which is a very bad version) on my laptop Pentium II 300 with 64MB RAM and 3.2 MB hard drive. I was using GNOME and KDE. And I have never noticed anything slow about them. Windows 98 is much slower on my Celleron 800 desktop (with 128MB RAM) and craches all the time, than Linux on my Laptop (PII 300). TWM is a very nice windoe manager by the way.
Cheers.
from people who seem to be imitating the old joke about Microsoft tech support and lightbulbs. Maybe it should be re-written to linux zealots:
Q: How many Linux zealots does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here, and it seems to be working fine. Can you tell me what kind of system you have? Okay. Now exactly how dark is it? Okay, there could be 4 or 5 things wrong …have you tried the
light switch?
Just because it works fine on your box, doesn’t mean it does on theirs, or that they have set anything up ‘incorrectly’. Maybe it’s just me, but when out of the box on a clean install the OS doesn’t work right without sitting there pouring through various tweaks, it simply is not ready for use on the average persons machine.
I very happily run both Gnome and KDE (RH7.3) on a 500MHz Pentium III (Dell Dimension L500r) but I’ve got 256MB of RAM. Memory is stil cheap. Instead of crying about how slow everything runs, why not invest in some SIMMS and see what everyone else has been enjoying.
The person that did the review had no idea about the memory requirements of the applications that were being run.
Linux, with a window manager like fvmw runs very well on a machine with only 64 MB of RAM, in fact the linux kernel 2.4.x only needs 16 MB to run without X.
Linux can be run as an X terminal and for that it only needs 16 MB of RAM as a bare minimun.
Of course if you run the very latest desktops like KDE, or GNOME you will need the amount of RAM that Red Hat recommends or more, RH recommends 192 MB of RAM, I would recommend at least 256 MB, and this person has only 64 MB not even close to the recommended amount of RAM, that is the reason everything run so slow for the person that did the review.
win 98 is 4 years old, you can not compare something powerfull uptodate with something that is really old, even then RH runs a lot faster than win98 if you select a window manager like twm, or fvwm that uses very little memory.
I have 2 linux machines, plus a few linux terminals.
In the terminals I can run RH 7.3 with as litle as 12 MB or RAM.
Currently I am running RH 7.2 using mozilla on a pentium I 233, and it runs fine, I use fvwm on that machine, with 96 MB of RAM and it works fine.
On my other machine a K6-3 400Mhz I use RH 7.3, enlightment for window manager and gnome for desktop with 256 MB ram it works fine.
The other flaw in the review, is that Gnome and KDE are not window managers, they are desktop managers, and if you do not have a lot of ram you simply do not need to run a desktop manager.
fvmw, twm, gwm, enlightment, sawfish, etc are window managers.
In fact you can run X without a window manager at all, of course a window manger makes life a lot easier.
In the review there is no distiction between a desktop manager and a window manager.
What I can tell from the review, this was not a person that knew linux, or did not bother to check the memory requirements, and did not notice how bad the OS was swapping, the disk light was probably permanently on.
Believe me, I been using linux since 1992, first SLS, then yggdrasil, then slackware, then caldera, then Red Hat, then suse, and currently Red Hat, and I can assure you linux is a lot faster than windows, only on very specific situactions windows could be faster, but in general linux is a lot faster. I contributed to the original bogomips-minihowto by benchmarching a 486dx150, the fastest 486 ever.
I used to run linux on a 386-20 with X, and it worked fine.
When someone tells you linux is slow, that is bull shit, take my word for it.
LPI certified linux consultant. http://www.consultorlinux.com
I swear, all of you idiot’s that complain about Linux being slow and Linux not doing what you want it to do… If you would take as much time as you waste complaining about Gnome or KDE (NOT Linux!! This is software written to run on Linux and other Unix like OS’s as well) and read a little, you’d soon realize how damn ignorant you guys sound… I’m sitting here reading some of these comments and your main problem is you all simply think Windows is the standard for Operating Systems. You have to give up that idea. Unix was out there long before Windows. If you want Windows, stay with it. You’re not going to get a Windows OS from a Linux distrobution. If you want a real OS, try Linux or other Unix.
Secondly, stop whinning about how “it doesn’t work”. It does work and works for millions of users that know what they’re doing. It doesn’t work for you because you are too ignorant to use google.com to view a few FAQ’s. Hell, I have to read more FAQ’s on Windows shit than I do on Unix. Why? Because Windows crashes on me so many times I have to find workarounds or hacks to fix all of the mistakes… It’s like you people forget there is a world of free knowledge out there.
However, if you’re expecting high powered and great stability from Red Hat, that is your first problem. Red Hat strives to be like Microsoft in every sense of the statement. I personally use Slackware. While this isn’t as user friendly as Red Hat, I have NEVER had any of the problems you people talk about. It took me 30 minutes to read about fdisk to partition my system for Slackware, then run ‘setup’ and everything else was common sense if you are “computer literate” as the person described above. The think that helped me out more was that I didn’t whine when things didn’t go as expected and I didn’t think Linux was trying to be like Windows. You have to understand, Windows was written to be like Unix and they failed miserably. Unix was the standard back when Apple and Microsoft started. You have to have the open mind to believe that you are going forward to a new domain where computers work how you tell them to. If you fuck something up, you fuck it up… You don’t get programs overwriting your mistakes. What if you meant to make that mistake and it overwrites it like all of the pretty little MS programs do? I hate that shit… I want it to do what I tell it to when I tell it to and how I tell it to… This is Unix. Fast, Efficient, Stable…
Now, my point to this rant:
Shut up, Quit whinning.
Open your mind a bit more…
Use resources like google.com
If you don’t know how to use google.com stop where you are now and go back to mowing lawns. If you do know how to use google.com yet you don’t want to bothered with it, stop where you are now and go back to taking your ADD medication and making excuses for your pathetic ignorance. (Piece of advice; ADD is just and excuse for you being stupid… Politically correct as it were. You’re taking sugar pills which create a placebo effect to your ignorant mind… You’re really stupid, not Attention Deficient.)
See all this hub-bub? People are starting to care more and more about the Linux on the desktop. Momentum is gathering.
Sure, JoeAttentionDeficit still can’t perform a clean install. But at the current rate of improvements, he soon will be able to.
I, for one, am VERY impressed with RH8.0.
Stay tuned Dorks.
…quite well on old hardware. I’ve got Windows XP running on a 166 mHz AMD. Of course it has a lot of RAM, but regardless, it works. I am sure that Linux could be installed on it, but why?
XFree86 is in IMHO always _a_bit_ slower than the Windows GUI. Can’t be helped. But if you have a 64 MB machine, you settle for a lightweight Window Manager, such as blackbox.
I’ve used a few distros, but Gentoo is the closest I’ve ever seen to perfection. It will be optimized for your CPU, and it will not start servers and stuff at startup unless you ask for it, even if they are installed.
Dang, five more messages, it would be a OSNews record. Now, this article is no longer on the front page…
This is my two cents worth.I’m a long time MDK user. Last week I tried RH 8 on a ATHLON 900MHZ,256MB RAM, 32MB RIVA TNT2, 7200RPM 40GB HDD. It was horribly sluggish. Dissapointed, I caught hold of the Mandrake 9.0 – perfect ..everything was snappy. What was the problem on RH 8 ??? Faulty detection of H/W ? UN-optimized Kernel ? Beats me, but I’m staying with Mandrake 9.0
I said:
“Toshiba 2595CDT is NOT a computer but a piece of overpriced garbage, an ENRON of of PC industry! WorldCom of PC industry as we all agree was COMPAQ!”
You argue:
“Toshiba makes very good laptops, one of the best PC laptops around. Compaq also makes very good computers. I’m willing to trade my HP for my brother’s Compaq Evo any day (even if the Evo is cheaper and have less specs), and yes, both are bought pre-merger.”
COMMENT: Toshiba was class action sued and settled for U$2 Billion dollars.
”
Daily News
Toshiba Settles With Feds Over Substandard Computers
By Ian Stokell
October 17, 2000
Toshiba Corp. has settled with federal agencies for selling them substandard computers, to the tune of $33.5 million. However, law enforcement officials are still reportedly investigating other major computer manufacturers for doing the same thing.
The Wall Street Journal reported that most of the $33.5 million will come from a $2.1 billion private class-action suit, settled in November, involving the same issues.
The WSJ said that at the time of the November settlement, no financial or legal claims were made by the government, but now the Justice Department points to the problems as being obvious “defects” that “cheat taxpayers and subject Toshiba to federal penalties.”
The WSJ added that instead of pursuing a separate civil case against Toshiba, the Justice Department decided it was best to be compensated under the terms of the earlier accord, and that the latest settlement signals the extent of the federal government’s concern over the computer problems.
Reported by Newsbytes.com, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/technology .”
http://www.computeruser.com/news/00/10/17/news5.html
Now there is seond class action. So Toshiba must be really GOOD! As far as COMPAQ I personally have OUT of COURT agreement and settlement with COMPAQ with FULL REFUND for seklling CRAP and defective PC designs. This was to avoid lawsuit as that is what I asked, or I was ready to file class action against COMPAQ.
To avoid bancrupcy Class Action against COMPAQ
http://www.hagens-berman.com/html/courtdoc-compaq1-settlementnotice…
http://securities.stanford.edu/news-archive/2002/20020705_Settlemen…
http://members.aol.com/CClass450/index.htm
was one of the reasons COMPAQ seeked merger with HP.
So both TOSHIBA (I bot 7 of them if I recall now corectly – all returned) and COMPAQ as you THE EXPERT said must be top quality.
Next time try a real PC!
If you do not know what you are talking about stay restrained from any comments out of your intellectual capacity. There is a reason that COMPAQ (ComCrap) was called Peesario!
YOU CAN learn more how good CCOMPAQ was/is on http://www.compaqsucks.com .
I said:
How long one can tolerate windows 9x ME the most viewed Blue Screen of Death?
You replied:
“Than use Windows 2000/XP for crying out load!”
YES I AM using Windows 2000 PRO with sp3 with IE 6.0.0.2800.1106 and compatibility patch 2.6
Why are you speculating not knowing the facts?
I said:
Here we go again you are on another Celeron! This time also with 128 MB RAM, not enough to run efficiently any windows. Remind you you need at least 256 MB ram to run ANY Windows!
You replied:
“Windows 98 DON’T need 256MB. Let me repeat that for you: WINDOWS 98 DON’T NEED 256MB. Windows XP needs that much to be usable, but NOT WINDOWS 98, which the author uses. Since the author didn’t tell what version of Win98 he is using, I’m guessing the first one, so it is 4 years old. 4 years ago, 256MB of RAM is as rare as 1GB of RAM nowadays.”
COMMENT:
You do not know to much about Windows or even Linux! I have over 1000 installations of WINDOWS 95/98/NTsp6a/2000PRO sp3/Windows XP. Why windows 95/98/NT/2000 will run with less than 256RAM it performance is sluggish to degree that one can not use PC. Here I strongly disagree with you.
You can use minimum of 16 MB RAM on Win95. In 1996 8MB RAm was going for U$ 500, so they shrunk the requirments to sell PCs. To run Windows optimized anything less than 128 MB RAM is wate of bites and bytes.
To run any previous version effectively you need at least 256MB RAM or you are dragging behind OS.
If you are using PC as word processor you can be satisfied. I am using more powerful professional applications and I am not willing to wait 2 weeks for results of computations.
cont.
I said:
“Try Linux on a real CPU and not Celeron!”
You replied:
“LOL, I have use Celeron 400MHz for 2 years, it is sufficient to run Linux at speeds a thousand times what the author claims. Celeron is not the problem here, OpenOffice.org won’t get slowed down to 5 minutes startup with a small cache.
What bout some proof, ma’am?”
COMMENT: the fact that you are using Celeron can only sumarise your knowledge about CPUs. Celeron was developed to keep cost down and profits high, and NOT with consideration for performance. If you are on celeron you are runing marginal operations and not “real” applications. If you are using PC as word processor only than you may be totally satisfied. Intel tried to screw all by introducing Celeron just to survive marginal profits on chip war with AMD.
Intro of Celeron was one of the biggest errors ever made in Intels history! Using Celeron is like driving race car on flats!
Why trying to save $ 100 on $ 2000 hardware to run on it less effectively $ 30,000 single piece of software! That is a pure lunacy.
I said:
“It for sure outperformed Windows 2000 PRO which I selected as the best OS ever released by WinTel Mafia.”
you replied: “With that amount of RAM, *prrf*, obviously.”
COMMENT: While you are farting others do use PCs!
If I am spending U$ 50,000 on PCs it is not for web browsing as you do. You could as well use WEB TV and be fully satisfied.
I said:
“Hardware should be certified to run all OSs (Windows and LINUX at least), but we should be NEVER forced to buy hardware with pre-loaded OS we don’t want or need.”
You replied:
“When you go out and choose your hardware, you HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO BUY A PC BUNDLED WITH WINDOWS! There are plenty of Linux-only OEMs, like Pogo Linux. You have the ultimate power as a consumer: not to buy a machine with Windows. If you buy a machine with Windows, both bitch about it.
Also, both bitch about the hardware not being compatible with Linux. Wanna buy a Linux-compatible system? Find an OEM that does support Linux, or choose your hardware wisely. What you are asking is similar to asking all OEMs motherboards must be compatible with Intel’s and AMD’s processors.”
COMMENT: I have NOT asked you what EULA said. You are hallucinating if you believe what you’ve typed. I built my own systems and I do not need to buy retail crap. I can NOT however built QUALITY LAPTOP and must buy TOP QUALITY laptop with preinstalled Microsoft Crap just to reformat hard disk drive and made my own installation.
I am choosing my hardware wisely and do not need to be told by a high school drop out what and how to do.
I said:
“Selling any hardware with preloaded OS against our will shall be considered nothing else but predatory monoplolistic criminal act of felony and FRAUD!”
You replied:
“No. It is completely legal and ethical. The hardware comes with the software. Don’t want the software? Don’t buy the hardware for crying out loud. It is like crying foul when Nissan dumped the V5 engine for the V6.
Stop acting stupidly. You have the ultimate power of a consumer, not to buy the fucking hardware.”
COMMENT: No it is NOT legal and ethical. Not giving buyers choices is a power of MONOPOLY. US AG shall investigate such fraudulent EXTORTION and put Microsoft on trail for extortion. Idiots like you will always be satified with the breakfast on a floor matt in front of the house of the platonic ex lover.
The bundling of OS with hardware without giving customer a CHOICE to buy it without, or a transaction with strings attached is illegal and violates consumers rights to free choice (Monopoly). Looks like you do not know to much about consumer rights and law.
I said:
“When running WINDOWS you must BUY extra software. When buying RedHat 8 Linux you get around 1000 softwares free with this distribution.”
“Right now, in my mind, you are a Slashdot troll. You are just one step from being a Usenet troll.”
“Most of that “1,000” application have similar capablities as most freeware on Windows (try http://www.download.com ot http://www.tucows.com bud)”
COMMENT: In my mind you are on drugs when expressing anecdotal unsupported by facts your own OPINION.
When I go trolling I use a power boat. There is plenty of shareware for Microsoft. For majority of shoddy software you still have to pay. Take a walk to PC store and look at the shelfs. Wonder how much software you’ve stollen ar bootleged. Leave testimony to EXPERTS and do not rattle with your biased opinions not supported by any facts.
to be cont.
I said:
“Do not try now to screw GUI LINUX in retaliation because you were screwed by WinTel mafia.”
cont.
You rant:
“Don’t screw Microsoft and Windows in retaliation because you were screwed by the biased press.”
COMMENT: Press doesn’t run my PCs, I do. Dissatisfaction with Microsoft software is well known. FBI, US DOD, NOAA, NASA, IRS, GA, all well characterised Microsoft quality of OS and its security. I do not need to express my opinion here.
http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/1999/fcw_6171999_crap.asp
“The Pentagon’s top information technology official sharply criticized, in the plainest possible language, the quality of software that IT contractors currently supply to the Defense Department.
“The quality of software we’re getting from vendors today is crap,” said Art Money, senior civilian official, who is acting as assistant secretary of Defense for command, control, communications and intelligence.
“Vendors are not building quality in,” Money said today at the GovTechNet International Conference in Washington, D.C. “We’re finding holes in it.”
DOD buys hundreds of millions of dollars worth of software each year, including everything from shrink-wrapped packages designed to run on the desktop to customized systems running millions of lines of code.
The quality of much of the software that DOD is receiving is so poor, Money said, that he is worried about the future of the U.S. software industry. Money predicted that if the U.S. software industry does not get its act together, it could suffer the same fate as the U.S. automobile manufacturing industry, with software sales moving offshore to Japan, for example.”
http://www-datadmn.itsi.disa.mil/dqpaper.html
Instead of reading Microsoft dispatches read professional literature.
http://www.nipc.gov/warnings/assessments/2001/01-028.htm
http://www.nipc.gov/warnings/advisories/2001/01-030-2.htm
http://www.eeye.com/html/Research/Advisories/AD20011220.html
You further rattle:
“One step away from Usenet troll…..
Anyway, replying to this extreemely trollish comment pretty much replies to most of the other comments. Have a good day.”
COMMENT:
“If you do not know who you are and what you do your comments can quickly disclose how childlish and uneducated you are while posting your trash.
Next time tink before replying as BRAINLESS people have nothing interesting to say! You make ONCE fool out of yourself that may be coincident. You repeat the “evidence” the label will follow you for ever.”
I am just giving you some examples I have MORE, no time to post them all …
If you DO not know who I am be careful as I may be an expert who may shread you in an instance and you will shrink very fast like your penis taking bath in cold water. I am just trying to be as polite as I can under the circumstances … after reading a piece of your fucken crap posted on this forum.
As you’ve demonstarted those who know the least always craw the loudest.
http://www.hoise.com/primeur/00/articles/monthly/AE-PR-05-00-48.htm…
http://www.hoise.com/primeur/01/articles/live/AE-PL-06-01-2.html
While we are talking here about the NEW Linux Psyche 8 DESKTOP usage Linux is well established and does not need any trolling:
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/science/hsy73332.000/hsy73332_…
If you do not understand the functions of stacks, L2 an pipelines in CPU how you can understand what is right or wrong, good or bad … Hard to rationalise with one who doesn’t know what logic is.
My suggestion go back to school and learn first about analytical thinking and do not pound dead horse, it can not run any more!