After a long development period, we’re ready to introduce the first “release candidate” of OSNews version 4. OSN4 is a very big change for us – for years, we’ve worked with the mantra “We render everywhere.” We are still using MySQL and PHP, like in Eugenia’s OSNews v2, but with the sudden prevalence of newer web technologies, we’ve decided that in order to really offer the best platform for our readers, it was time to enter a brave new world. Read on for details and the link. Updated: (“read more” to see update)
Redesigning OSNews was a challenge. We get email from people that describes their frustration with excessive page loads and missed coding opportunities. But get many readers who tell us that the simplicity of the site is what keeps them coming. The editors all agreed though, that if we were going to redesign the site, we were going to completely redesign it – from scratch. And that’s what we did. OSNews v4, completely and totally rewritten from scratch. You need a modern browser with javascript support to take full advantage of the site, which means many of our users on obscure browsers will be missing some critical features. Unfortunately, removing javascript severely limits us, and it’s required for full site use.
Let’s review some of the new features. First, and most notably, we have “Conversations.” Conversations are short blurbs that most users[1] can add for other users to comment on. OSNews rules say that conversation in the forums must be on-topic. Want to talk about the new Ubuntu? How about expected Leopard features? Want to take a tangential debate offline? You can start a conversation and talk about virtually anything, and not worry about affecting your account standing by getting down-modded for being off-topic. Please note that all conversations and conversation comments posted in the beta period will be deleted when we go live.
Secondly, a not-often requested feature that I personally see a need for and wanted: private messaging. We discussed, on our staff mailing list, the appropriate way to contact a user – do we just use the email they provided us? Do we post something to them? Now we have a way – private messages. PMs offer full functionality. Notifcation, a reply function, a full block list, etc. You can PM any active user who hasn’t blocked you. Yo ucan test the PM system now by sending me a private message during the beta test – the system is configured to auto-respond to PMs to me during the beta test. This is solely so that you can test the functionality of this feature. Note that I will actually receive the messages, so please keep the messages clean (or at least try to entertain me).
Thirdly – AJAX everywhere it made sense. Not overused – no superbloated javascript to slow down every page load and do the same thing we could do in a two lines otherwise. Javascript everywhere it makes sense, but nowhere else. Look for it with bookmarking, recommending, moderation, and starring.
Starring? Yes, I often find on other popular sites that I like to bookmark links to stories, links to comments, etc. So, like the bookmark, you can now “star” a story. Yes, I stole this idea from Gmail. Yes, it’s the same star. What’s the difference between recommending and starring? Think of recommending as telling other users “you should read this” and starring as a bookmark for yourself.
RSS. A lot of it. Seriously. Check out every user’s profile. Every users has about 6 custom feeds, and there are about 100 others for the main site. Please note that these feeds are only currently accessible if you change the URL to www4. However, do NOT subscribe to them yet, as the URL *will* change to when we go live.
CSS. A lot of it. Seriously. Since the site can be templated, we may be inclined at some point to offer multiple themes or just flat out replace the default one at some point.
Comment displays are now more flexible. You can view comments as flat, nested, or threaded. Furthermore, you can view all comments in one page, and you can even sort them by score. Comments below your threshold will inline but grayed out, and should you be tempted to read them anyway, you can drop them in place.
Speaking of comments, on replies, there is now a button that says “Quote Parent.” This allows you to place the text of a parent comment into [q] tags. As of right now, this is the proper way to quote a comment. The quoted comment will appear in its own field, clearly demonstrating that it is quoted text (see image on the right). You can begin to use the q tags RIGHT NOW; they are backported to v3 and will render as regular italics.
Avatars! Well, this is really in beta right now because I’m still playing with image resizing. Right now all images are converted into PNG by PHP, transparency is not supported, and images over 500K return a server error, but we’ll iron those issues out before rollout. Most standard, reasonably-sized images should work just fine. At first, this may seem unnecessary (and should you decide it is, you can turn them off in your preferences), but I’m telling you, after using v4 almost exclusively for several weeks now, they are great for identifying people’s comments.
Speaking of which, the people with whom you have a relationship (either a friend of yours, a fan of yours, or both) will have comments colored differently than everyone else to quickly draw your attention. Your own comments will be a garish green – until I replace it with a better background. Let’s look at the image to the left. Notice the friend is green, the fan is yellow, the mutual friend is orange, and the regular comments are a nice light green wave.
We got polls! Although we don’t have any real polls visible yet, v4 supports native polling, which was long overdue. We are using jpgraph to generate graphs. Neat stuff.
News tags. Once in awhile, something will come up like MacWorld, WWDC, WinHEC, etc, where several articles will be logically grouped together. For right now, each article can have a keyword and clicking the keyword will bring you to that group. For the time being, here is an example: Meta.
Headlines are integrated into the sidebar. For now, we offer three feeds: the OSN Staff Blog, OSGalaxy,
and Gnomefiles.
We built a much needed, greatly expanded search. Want to find your old comments from the days before registration? So did I. Click the “Advanced Search” link in the sidebar to explore our search facility.
Advertisements are integrated throughout the site, and everyone sees them while in beta. When I take the beta flag off, they will disappear for subscribers. I also intend to offer subscribers some other goodies in the future, such as free ice cream with each visit. Well, okay, we can’t offer that, but we’re looking into other features.
We’re very excited to hear your thoughts on OSNews v4. We’ve had several users testing it and providing feedback, and thus far, the response is overwhelmingly positive. Please use the comments in this thread to discuss OSNews 4, not the Conversations section (although you can use that too, but let’s keep the discussion in one place). Feel free to test Private Messaging with me, as my account will automatically reply to you.
So, without further ado, OSNews, version 4 Beta.
[1] There are several criteria to judge if you’re elligible to start a conversation, detailed on the start conversation page. If you can’t post, it will tell you why.
Update: Let me address two issues: First, the graphic design of the v4 site as it stands is not finalized, so don’t spend too much time fretting over it. For the purposes of this testing, we’re primarily concerned with how the whole system works, so try out the new features and check out the old ones. Second, some people have pointed out that the new site uses Javascript, CSS, and other newfangled stuff that will make some alternative, antique, mobile, or otherwise weird browsers puke. Don’t you worry about that! Before we take this site live, we’ll make sure that every OSNews reader gets a clean, readable version of the site, no matter what browser they’re using. Thanks — David Adams, Publisher.
Will this version be available the new one is horrible I cannot stand all the busy looking stuff on the page who needs it. Why not have a basic page and not have one that looks like a child designed it? Oh I forgot everything has to have that look now very unprofessional looking.
Why change something if the present version works perfectly with no problems?
If they move on to the new version I will view elsewhere….
Glitz and features may be nice, but this site is about operating system news. Some operating systems just don’t have access to web browsers with all of the new fangled stuff, so you can expect to drive away users of some operating systems. Much of what remains will be Mac/Linux/Windows oriented. Which may be fine for the majority, but not everyone. (Some Linux users would even have trouble because you cannot run Firefox on low-resource systems.)
Browser: ELinks/0.11.2 (textmode; Linux 2.6.16-ARCH i686; 80×25-2)
>>Some Linux users would even have trouble because
>> you cannot run Firefox on low-resource systems.
Which is why ‘graceful degredation’ by using SEMANTIC tags is very important. Loading up on assigning classes to meaningless DIV’s and anchors for things like topics or lists of items is just bad form. It’s WHY you use header tags, ordered and unordered lists, and paragraphs INSTEAD of DIV. DIV’s should really be reserved for grouping sets of semantic tags together, or for things for which there are no semantic tags…
Oh, I have a question: what is that “star” thing on the main page supposed to actually do? Why is it wrapped in an extra SPAN when you have a perfectly good anchor?
Um.. youre using Links, which last I checked, works perfectly. So why would you possibly think we’ll be leaving anyone else out in the cold? We’ll just not be supporting features that their browser doesn’t support anyway.
Actually, I usually use more modern browsers. But I was thinking more of people who use the oddball OSes that I periodically give a try. The articles on these OSes and the discussion that surrounds it is far more interesting to me than: “Yet another Ubuntu test release” or “Why Windows XP ain’t so bad” or similar stuff. I’m just afraid that a site that is more hostile to their OS will chase that type of user away.
As for ELinks being supported, it is already a third class citizen. Many of the features that others take for granted, like scoring, aren’t available. More importantly, it isn’t obvious how you would filter messages based upon that score.
– the link in “Recent comments” does not jump to latest comment but just to the story. Not sure if on purpose or my browser (Firefox Linux amd64).
– Highlight on my own comments is very neat – but it is not visible when I browse from another computer even if I am logged in.
– Sort Newest does not work
Edited 2007-03-23 14:59 UTC
Made a two comment votes yesterday. The count shows 9. The count has not been reset today.
Not a bug. It looks up ratings that you’ve made within the last 24 hours. In the last 24 hours (from now), you made 1, which leaves 9.
I apologize ahead of time if this is already mentioned (or a known issue that I should know)
Each session, my view keeps reverting to “flat”, and then I have to reselect “threaded”, which forces a reload. The selection is not remembered across sessions.
Yes it is. It’s following whatever is currently set in your preferences.
I’ve got the same problem:
My preferences say “nested” but new pages always default to “flat view”.
My preference is not set to “flat”, it is set to “nested” (I get “threaded” and “nested” confused, sorry), but several times a day I have to manually choose it, because it keeps reverting to “Flat”, usually after I have closed the browser and come back (thus I thought it had something to do with a session).
I’m not sure what to tell you right now. The code is very small and very clear – in fact, it defaults to nested right now.
The only way to get flat comments is if you have view=flat in the URL or your view is set to flat in the prefs (yours *is* set to nested). Can you check the URL?
I just clicked your comment in the “Recent Comments” list, and this page loaded flat. Here is the URL from my address bar (as you see, it has flat in it):
http://www4.osnews.com/comments/17538?view=flat&perpage=-1#223988
Maybe the bug is in the URL that is generated for your “Recent Comments” section.
p.s., I am a software developer (C++, Java, .NET), so I understand the “fun” of finding bugs!
Wait… that’s not a bug! That’s so you see the comment!
If you have your mode as nested, the comments overflow at some point, which means in long threads, the links on the sidebar are dead links. So the recent links are always set to flat. You see?
Got it! Reminds me of why I want to buy a Volkswagon Beetle (AKA Bug) and get the license plate “FEATURE”. When people ask me what it means, I can say,
“It’s not a Bug, it’s a Feature!”
I’m sure they will just shake their heads and walk away, but I like it.
Nice sarcasm.
Do you have a better way to do it?
[EDIT] The other option is to send them to the permalink, but then there’s another click to participate.
Edited 2007-03-23 16:45
No, I can’t think of anything better. I guess it is just a user education issue.
I guess what I was expecting to happen was that that particular thread would be opened (uncollapsed), and perhaps that comment highlighted and somehow centered in the screen.
We users never think about how hard something is to code. We just like to ask for stuff! ;}
It’s not hard to code, it’s just a limitation of the layout. At some point, the threads are unreadable because they are so far smushed, so we have to move to a new page. I will change it to point to the thread starting with that comment.
So the version right will go away, the new one is to busy looking and hard to read.
Why change it if the present one works perfectly and loads quickly….
???
Change your theme.
http://www.osnews.com/theme
In fact, I just hovered over the “Recent Comments” section, and all of the links have “view=flat” in them. I think that is you bug.
Here’s a thought:
A darker, more subdued theme makes the site look like it could conceivably be work related. The bright green stands out a bit too much
Would be nice to implement it.
( I’m still shocked about the new colour scheme but that’ll change right? I love the old blue diagonals )
Enjoy.
http://www4.osnews.com/theme
This is temporary until we migrate to v4. For now, please note you MUST ACCEPT COOKIES to set a theme.
It took my brain a second to wrap its self around the new site, but it looks good. The best part I can use the sidebar in Firefox without losing anything I actually want to read!
There are a a couple nitpicks though. the headers on the left side link bar seem like they would be a natural place for a link, and I liked the old logo better.
Anyway, it looks great.
I quite like the new site! I do *not* like having the links and stuff on the right hand side though
Can you make it optional? I much prefer having it on the left. having it on the right just makes the site look weird to me…
I really love the new design though!
oh, I don’t like the ne wlogo at all either. it’s really really really UGLY! IMO of course
How about you guys have a logo competition? That would be awesome! You might get some VERY good submissions!
Edited 2007-03-23 18:11 UTC
http://www4.osnews.com/permalink?224005
oh, thanks… heh. sorry, missed that somehow
Adam,
On the front page, if you look at this news story, the comment count isn’t displaying correctly. It’s saying “20 comments” for this, when there are over 200. This is in FireFox 2.
I’m using Internet Explorer 7.0.5730.11 and it is showing this article as having just 5 comments.
What about making the Sidebar customizable? So that you could remove several columns, like the ‘recent comments’.
The “Classic” theme is for the people who prefer the look and feel of OSN4. Since it’s so different, there are still many areas of this theme that are incomplete.
I think it should read “The….look and feel of OSN3” instead of OSN4.
Fixed. Thanks.
This has probably been mentioned already, but…
Why can’t you set themes in your profile? So when you log in to OSNews, it’s back at the theme you want? I use several PCs constantly and having to change the theme to left everytime I log in is rather annoying…
Did you even read the text on the theme page?
oh… heh, sorry. Completely overlooked it.
So far, I enjoy it. The theme is quite drastically different from the original obviously and I’m pretty fond of this original look, so that’s probably just something I have to adjust to. You can always go back to original mode, so that’s good too. I like the “lefty” theme also even though I’m right handed.
I haven’t gone too deep into other things yet, but I can say that I don’t like the ads in between the entries. I never minded the ads on the side of the side and top, and maybe you have to do that now for more clicks or something but if there would be one thing I’d change right off the bat it’d be getting rid of the ones in between entries. It’s probably something that could be gotten used to though if it needs to be there… I just feel that it takes away from the reading itself to be honest.
As a few other thoughts:
Firstly, I love the ability to edit comments (as I’m doing right now) so props to that! I also enjoy the starring feature and all of the XML going on here now.
Secondly, this is more of a question, but is it possible to paginate the threaded/nested views at all? I kind of like the idea of both, but I don’t like the idea of going through hundreds of comments on one page. I don’t know if the design allows for pagination to occur in these views so I’m more curious than anything.
Edited 2007-03-24 21:49 UTC
No. We looked into this. The problem is that once it’s threaded, we can’t control how many comments are on a page anymore if we keep the thread going. The first page may have 10 comments but the first comment has 20 replies, and they each have 2 replies. By the last page, you may have 10 comments with no replies. So there’s no consistency that way. This is more a logical problem than a technical one. You follow?
Yeah I see what you mean. That makes sense and I figured it was something like that. Kind of a shame because that seems like it’d help. Oh well though… it’s not really that bad and the flat view is fine also. Thanks for the reply though, I appreciate it.
I like the new site. While I could probably nitpick if I wanted to, the fact is that I found the old layout to be somewhat dated looking.
Two things come to mind with the new layout:
a) Since you highlight the topic header for user messages, how about highlighting new messages posted since the last time the comments were viewed? Something as simple as using a cookie to record time and trigger highlighting of posts displayed since the last view time? Taking this article as an example, with 238 posts, it can be cumbersome finding newer posts in a threaded view.
b) For the avatar thingy, can it be changed to display a blank avatar for users that have declined to set one, rather than using the generic default one? Avatars are useful in recognizing posters, using a generic one sort of defeats that because it adds clutter. Using a profile setting to view them is an all-or-nothing alternative, so I’m wondering about something in between?
Just my 2c…
Just a couple of pixels of padding on the body of the news items would improve the front page enormously IMO.
It’s difficult for the eye to make sense of what’s going on without any gaps between all the different font sizes and styles.
Looks good though.