Geeks.com was so kind to send me the Dell w1700, a 17″ widescreen multi-purpose monitor (by lack of a better term). It can serve as a television and a computer monitor at the same time, and the amount of connection possibilities is just scary. Read on for a review. Geeks.com sells two versions of the w1700: one with a stand, and one without. I received the latter; the former got added to the Geeks.com inventory a few days later. They are exactly the same machines, except for the stand. The monitor is VESA 10cm compatible, so you can use any VESA stand. I took one from my other Dell monitor.
Anyway, here is a dry rundown of the specifications:
I want to focus the first part of the review on the last bullet point.
PAL? NTSC? SCART? Component? Composite? S-Video? Help?
As many of you will know, I live in The Netherlands. In The Netherlands, we use the PAL television system, like almost every other country in Europe. The United States uses NTSC, which is basically the same but different enough to make it incompatible with PAL. What this effectively means is that in order for a TV to work on both continents, it needs two tuners: one PAL, and one NTSC (and a SECAM one for the French). Hence, when the team and I decided that I was going to review this item, we made sure it had a PAL tuner. According to the Geeks.com spec list (supplied by Dell), it did both NTSC and PAL.
There was no way to actually search for channels, or to set the proper PAL variant. After a search on the internet, I found out that while the European version of the manual for the w1700 shows how to access the PAL menu, the US version did not. Digging deeper on the internet, I found a post from a Dell employee on the Dell customer forums which said:
“According to my information, our TVs will work in both PAL and NTSC in every mode but the Tuner mode i.e. S-Video, Component etc. work, but tv tuner is NTSC if purchased in the US, and PAL in Europe.”
I was very frustrated, as this was not made clear at all in the specifications list. While the TV does indeed have PAL capabilities even if bought in the US, this PAL is only the basic form, which allows European DVD players to work on American TVs (this indeed worked). While Eugenia’s husband thinks the TV lacks PAL chips, my own personal gut feeling says this is nothing but a mere firmware issue; the TV’s software is blocking me from the PAL menu. This gut feeling is strengthened by the fact that the European and the US version have the same service tag. Other than that, the different PAL standards are all 99% compatible, meaning that one chip could easily decode them all (in fact, new PAL TVs all have one single chip for PAL capable of decoding almost every PAL variant).
The solution? I switched from analog TV to digital TV. I now have digital television via DVB-T, and in all honesty, this TV gave me a legitimate excuse to switch to digital television. My DVB-T decoder can be connected to the composite video port of the TV, which works just fine, except for the fact that my decoder came with a SCART-SCART cable. Since SCART is a European connector, this TV does not have a SCART-in. I had to buy a 4 EUR two-way SCART-Composite video cable in order to get it all to work.
The monitor
The image is very bright, and the viewing angle is just astonishing; both vertically and horizontally. The colour stays the same, and does not wash out. When in TV mode, the screen is not jittery like I have seen on so many other flat-panel TVs, meaning the TV is not tiring to look at. When in ‘computer’ mode, the image can be a little fuzzy; I have no idea why this is, but it is tiring (I connect my displays via DVI, but the ‘ordinary’ VGA connection had the same fuzziness). With this I do not mean the type of fuzziness you get when using an LCD at a non-native resolution; it is a different type of fuzziness. The problem appears on Ubuntu, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Zeta 1.5-pre.
Obviously, you can control things like brightness, contrast, and so on. You can also switch between various video modes such as 4:3, full screen, nonlinear scaling, and standard mode (handy for broadcasts in widescreen).
The on-screen display is very easy to use, and it controls every aspect of the device. The contents of the menu differ based on the input type currently active; the TV settings are hidden when using i.e. DVI as the input, making the TV much easier to use.
The remote control, while simple, has one serious flaw: the buttons are all similarly shaped and coloured, meaning it can be very hard to distinguish which button does what. The TV does respond very well to the remote, even though the batteries which came with the package were dead. You can control every aspect of the monitor with the remote, including input select and video mode.
Upon first inspection, I was a little worried the speakers would not be capable of producing any meaningful sound, and that I needed to connect my digital tuner to my Hi-Fi set to get decent sound, but I was proven wrong. The sound from the speakers is surprisingly full, albeit a little low on bass. Of course it is no Hi-Fi set, but for a TV this is good enough. Via the OSD you can set treble, bass, balance, volume (no, really?), and surround on/off.
The TV has some extra features such as parental controls, a sleep timer, and closed captions for i.e. the hearing impaired.
Bugs
The TV has, as far as I can see after two weeks of usage, two bugs; one of which is minor, one of which is major. When turning the device on, the word “composite” sometimes refuses to disappear from the screen, requiring me to restart the device a few times before it does disappear. Very annoying, but still a minor bug. The major bug is the whole situation with the PAL. Assuming this is indeed a firmware issue (and not a hardware issue like Eugenia’s husband thinks), this qualifies as a major bug in my book.
Conclusion
Besides making the ridiculous world of TV broadcasting crystally clear visible, this device has given me little in the form of unfavourable experiences. Seeing the low price, this monitor just screams “value for money”– provided you live in a NTSC country or have digital television when in a non-NTSC country. As a computer monitor, the slight fuzziness might irritate you.
Positive points:
Negative points:
Well, we were in for a surprise. When I installed the TV in my home, and hooked up the COAX cable, all I got was black and white TV, and no sound. No big deal, I thought; I had not yet done a channel search across the UHF and VHF bands. On top of that, I thought I would probably have to select the proper variant of PAL (there are about 7843758 different variants of it, mostly compatible with one another). And this is where everything started to go wrong.
The monitor has a silver finish, with the speakers on the sides of the screen. At the bottom right of the display are buttons for input select, volume up and down, channel up and down, activate menu, a power LED, and the power button. The up/down buttons double as the navigate buttons in the on-screen display.
One of the coolest features is the ‘picture in picture’. Normally on a TV, this means you can watch two channels at the same time; however, with this multi-purpose monitor it means you can watch either the s-video, composite, component, or tuner input while working behind your computer, in ‘picture-in-picture’ style. You can then adjust the size of the “window”, and move it around using the OSD (of course controllable via the remote control). While this feature is mostly not useful for me (I use the device as a TV alone, as I am of the strong opinion a computer has no place in a Hi-Fi/DVD/TV setup), I can see the usefulness of this when you choose to use this monitor for your computer.
If you would like to see your thoughts or experiences with technology published, please consider writing an article for OSNews.
Thom Holwerda,
Why would they send you a free TV monitor?
OSNews isn’t exactly the best place to advertise for them, right?
I’m not real savy on TV technology like my father is but you seem to know what your talking about.
What are the main differences between PAL and NTSC?
actually this could be a very good place to advertise. anybody who sees it is going to be on a computer and i bet most of us have a tv in the same room.
What are the main differences between PAL and NTSC?
PAL has a better resolution than NTSC (PAL has more lines). NTSC also has a problem in that it uses 29.97 frames per second, where most (if not all) films are shot in 24 frames (this can be solved with a process called 3:2 pulldown, but it creates problems [1]). PAL uses 25fps, meaning films actually run 4.2% faster on PAL; no additional techniques are needed here.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Telecine_judder
I like the way that when I try to vote your comments up for being funny, I get told I can’t abuse the system
By whom?
By whom?
Or, better yet, what the hell is funny about that post…?
By whom?
Users can’t vote on admin comments. if you try, the site says something about this feature being disabled to prevent abuse. This applies to voting up as well as voting down.
Or, better yet, what the hell is funny about that post…?
Maybe I misread the thread, but I thought the original poster was being a prat by questioning your knowledge of video transmission formats as a way of showing that you shouldn’t be given(or loaned) free TVs.
Your competent, straight-up demonstration of knowledge (or ability to research) seemed like a droll putdown.
IIRC PAL is actually clocked at 50Hz interlaced (so is as if it was 25Hz – not all scanlines are drawn each cycle) and NTSC is something like 60Hz interlaced.
PAL has a higher resolution, but suffers from noticable flicker when compared to a US TV.
PAL is actually clocked at 60Hz (interlaced) in Brasil.
PAL I is used in the UK, PAL M moist of Europe. They are not compatible. The sound carrier is not the same and a PAL M broadcast will produce no sound on a PAL I TV.
PAL B, G, H, I, and N are compatible with one another, while PAL M (used only in Brazil and Laos) is not.
Didn’t I tell you this is HELL.
Edited 2007-02-26 19:42
Okay, so is it N or B that most of Eourope use? Whichever it is doesn not work correctly with broadcast TV in the UK.
All the chaos of refresh rates is ties to the frequency of electricity. Mad, eh? 😉
but suffers from noticable flicker
For people who notice the flicker at 50Hz, there are 100Hz TVs.
heh, I notice the flicker at 60hz on tvs and up to about 80hz on computers CRTs… its either 85hz and up or no go.
60hz kills my eyes. I get headaches
I cannot imagine PAL…
I’m the same way! The first computer I had that didn’t use a TV was my Atari ST, and it ran at either NTSC or PAL, depending on the game I was playing. A lot of the European games required the 50hz switcher. It flickered a lot, though once you were into the game you didn’t notice too terribly bad. But then after I got my PC and my 21″ CRT monitor, it has to be at 85hz. At 75hz I can still see the flicker, and at 60hz it kills my eyes.
In fact whenever I have to sit at a workstation and almost always in Windows XP it doesn’t set the highest refresh rate by default, so I have to change it. One time I did this on a Win2k machine at work for someone, then they did the upgrade to WinXP and the person who worked on it asked me to fix it because staring at her screen was making her ill.
Refresh rate is very important for CRTs, but my LCD on my laptop is fine at 60hz and looks great. Fortunately I have an HTPC connected to a 21″ monitor at 100hz for watching TV on
That’s what I said before, for people like you, there are 100hz PAL TVs that show every frame twice,
No, modern “100HZ TV” does not show you same frame twice. There is nice algorithm based on idea that used in video codecs (motion interpolation). Search “Pixel+” (Philips) or DNI (Samsung), they analyze couple if frames, detect moving objects and recreate new frames between original, so moving look very smooth. Same trick used in InterVideo DVD software player. Of course it cannot always correctly detect such areas but personally i like it.
Edited 2007-03-03 08:18
SECAM – System Essentially Contrary to the American Method
NTCS – Not the Same color
PAL – Perfect at Last
Never Twice Same Colour (color) 🙂
>OSNews isn’t exactly the best place to advertise for them, right?
Wrong. OSNews is a tech magazine. Anything tech goes.
>Wrong. OSNews is a tech magazine. Anything tech goes.
Ah, maybe true, but the site name/URL implies it’s about OS. Maybe the site name could be changed to “OSNews: Tech news, views and reviews with an OS slant”*
* I claim copyright over that tagline 😉
But I was told not long ago OSNews was a Tech *Blog*…
Does OSNews have an identity crisis?
I believe they are different video formats. NTSC is used across the pond, PAL is used by European countries including the UK.
Thom, send me the Dell once you have finished testing it. Thanks
NTSC is used across the pond, PAL is used by European countries including the UK.
PAL is also used in several South-American and Asian countries.
can sumone explain to me why one cannot adjust colors in a monitor (make it grayscale completely) like you can do in a TV?
You can. Most monitors have an OSD with which you can edit colour properties, including a slider with which you can effectively turn it into a grayscale monitor.
You can probably do this via your operating system’s display properties as well. And, in OSX, there is an option to turn the entire OS grayscale (iirc).
ok please tell me at least one brand which can do that from the OSD. Bcoz no software, system’s display props, NVIDIA or ATI tools allow such a thing. I tried everything.
please tell me at least one brand which can do that from the OSD.
You could hack up a VGA cable and work out an averaging circuit to feed your monitor.
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/vga2rgb/interfacing.html
Down towards the bottom. That design is to drive a monochrome monitor. I think you’d connect the averaged output to the R, G, and B pins if you wanted to drive a color monitor in shades of gray.
It also mentions in the link above that monochrome monitors only connected the green signal line. Older VGA cards would detect this and mix the colors for you. You might just try taking a VGA cable and snipping off the red and blue pins. It says newer cards may not detect the change though.
So why do you want to do this, BTW?
Edited 2007-02-26 20:33
My Viewsonic 2025wm will go greyscale in the OSD. Select the Color option and then User Color. Drop the RGB values to zero.
You can. Most monitors have an OSD with which you can edit colour properties, including a slider with which you can effectively turn it into a grayscale monitor.
Using the *very* scientific sample of the two LCDs and the one CRT on my desk (Dell 2001FP and IBM L171p LCDs, IBM E74 CRT), you cannot remove all color from the display like you could with older monitors. They all have individual RGB sliders (as opposed to the older “color” slider or knob), and even with them all pushed to zero, the monitor looks dim, but not grey-scale.
I have an older CRT at home, I’ll have to try that.
“Using the *very* scientific sample of the two LCDs and the one CRT on my desk (Dell 2001FP”
Dell 2001FP…best monitor for the money, period. I have 2 of them on my desk, it’s better than its replacement IMO.
Tv or monitor, the line is increasingly blurry…
More and more of my friends seems to be buying Lcd tv’s and use them as monitors.
As for using a computer in a entertainment setup, why not. Its just a matter of using a single gp computer rather then a increasing array of specialized ones…
Browser: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.1.7139/1630; nb; U; ssr)
As for using a computer in a entertainment setup, why not. Its just a matter of using a single gp computer rather then a increasing array of specialized ones…
Computers are jacks of all trades. My entertainment setup is a component (specialised) setup in which something that actually has a boot time and can crash has no place.
“…boot time and can crash…”
You’re missing out on a better experience if you let such bogus arguments stop you. Boot time is a non-issue for servers, which are always on. Crashing is a defect in a specific implementation, not the general class, and may be seen in components as well as computers.
My MythTV system never crashes. But I have a DVD player which locks up on some discs, and the power cord must be unplugged – the front panel ‘power’ switch is logic level and is ignored when the player locks up.
I get more use and enjoyment out of my entertainment system since I added a computer. Perhaps MythTV or Windows MCE is not for you, but please attribute the faults to the specific application, not to the gerneral concept.
Either someone is posing as you, or you sent me a personal threat by email.
I assumed it was you – as it said “Eugenia” as the sender, but it looks to have Thoms email address…
Now I’m totally confused?!?!
Edited 2007-02-27 09:52
# 400:1 contrast ratio
# 25 ms response time
These values doesn’t look very good for television/movies… and I’m not even talking about games….
Besides this flaws, looks like a nice product. =|
I am of the strong opinion a computer has no place in a Hi-Fi/DVD/TV setup
That’s funny, because my computer is the *only* part of my “home entertainment system”. Especially now, that most media-related consumer electronics are just special-purpose (and often functionality-limited) computers, I don’t see much point in essentially buying the same devices twice. I already have a perfectly suitable display connected to my computer and a DVD drive, why would I want to get a separate display and DVD player to take up more space and perform the same function?
Again. I don’t have to boot my computer or load the CD app to be able to play a CD. I just pop it in my Technics CD player et voila. No confusing menus, no pop-ups, no screaming interfaces. Just, pure, music. No crap.
I don’t have to boot my computer or load the CD app to be able to play a CD.
That’s one of the specific things I like about using a computer as my stereo/music library: I don’t think I’ve played audio directly from a CD in 2 or 3 years. I find it much more convenient to rip the CDs and have them immediately available, rather than hunting through hundreds of physical discs.
No confusing menus, no pop-ups, no screaming interfaces.
Not all media playing apps are usability nightmares.
Booting your computer to play a CD *would* be stupid, and I don’t know why you insist that’s how it has to be.
My desktop gets turned off. My laptop gets turned off. My entertainment center server is always on. Boot time is NOT a factor. No one is suggesting that you use your desktop computer in your entertainment center.
I don’t want to search for a CD and load it into my player. I just select the album, song, or playlist and it plays. Right now, faster than I could find the CD on my shelves. In my living room, in my bedroom, or in my computer room. It’s faster and easier than using my old player.
I don’t doubt that you’ve seen bad interfaces on some applications. So have I. And I’ve seen bad interfaces on some components. Bad interfaces are not inherent in either approach, and neither are good interfaces.
If I were to apply your complaints about computers in entertainment systems to components, I’d say that components take too long to play a CD because of the time it takes to plug in the cables, decipher the confusing connector labels, find the CD in the box of random stuff in the other room, clean the CD, unwrap the shrinkwrap, and replace the batteries in the remote control. All of those issues can happen, but all of them are either one-time issues or are avoided in well-configured systems. So are the issues you raise.
A proper computer-based entertainment system can be fast and easy to use. Your desktop is not a proper entertainment system, it’s designed for other uses. Try a dedicated entertainment system someday, preferably before dismissing the idea again.
Don’t move the camera when you take a picture 😉
I was so interested in this that i almost bought one, but then i found the dell forum and it looks like these were lemons and shipped with bad inverter boards. They can be replaced with a upgraded/fixed ones for 80 dollars. So the real question is, Have these been fixed or are they just refirb’ed to get them out the door?? The dell forums looked quite like quite a few people were uptite as they lasted til the warranty ended. Alot of good comments about the quality of this monitor, until they die prematurely.
Edited 2007-03-01 08:22
Assuming that’s a speaker under your Gamecube, and also assuming that it’s hooked up to your entertainment system, that’s a dumb place to put it. If you have 2 speakers, they should be equidistant from each side of the screen and roughly pointing towards your listening/viewing location.